by Lee, 04/29/2008, 9:42 AM

I had a bad day on the internet yesterday as I spent some time arguing that Jeremiah Wright won’t be a problem for Obama, while at the same time, Wright was busy becoming a problem for Obama. I don’t have even a fraction of the time today to fully explain how incredibly stupid this man is, so I’ll just point you to Eli Sanders, who does a good job of it.

The biggest problem isn’t the paranoia, the praise of renowned crazyperson and bigot Louis Farrakhan, or even his unwillingness to accept that he has said numerous things that are clearly known to be untrue. The biggest problem is that he keeps insisting that Barack Obama secretly agrees with him, but can’t say so publicly because he’s a politician. At this point, Obama has no choice. He has to do what he said he couldn’t do in his Philadelphia speech, and disown this man and his nutty ideas.

I’ve devoted a lot of my time and energy in blogging to understanding the realities of urban America and to what continues to hold black communities in this country back. I often find myself defending the black community from those who insist that the failures are all within. They’re not. There’s a lot of institutional racism, primarily within our justice system, which perpetuates a systemic inequality. But I find it both sadly ironic and terribly disheartening whenever a man who claims to have the interests of his community at heart can do so much damage to the effort he claims to be a part of. And that’s precisely what Wright is doing.

UPDATE: Obama addresses it:

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama denounced his former pastor in his strongest language to date on Tuesday, saying he was outraged by Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s assertions about the U.S. government and race.

“His comments were not only divisive … but I believe that they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate,” Obama told reporters.

“Whatever relationship I had with Reverend Wright has changed as a consequence of this,” Obama said.

Thanks to Hannah for posting this in comments.

149 Responses to “Wright is Wrong”

1. Roger Rabbit spews:

So it’s the lawyers’ fault, Lee? Maybe in NYC, but around here, I can’t imagine a group more committed to eliminating racism than our judges and lawyers.

2. Lee spews:

@1
So it’s the lawyers’ fault, Lee?

I didn’t say that, Roger.

Maybe in NYC, but around here, I can’t imagine a group more committed to eliminating racism than our judges and lawyers.

There are a lot of places in this country where that’s not true. Not to mention that Seattle has long had one of the highest racial disparities in drug arrests in the country. That may not be the lawyers and judges fault per se, but it is a problem with the justice system.

3. Troll spews:

Great post. Why did Wright decide to pop back up at this time? Either he’s stupid, which I don’t think he is, or he doesn’t really care if Obama wins.

4. BeerNotWar spews:

I’m going to be generous and suggest that Obama needed to distance himself from Wright and now Wright has helped him do it without alienating his Black base. Even before this latest rant it was clear Wright was going to be an anchor on Obama’s campaign. But Obama couldn’t completely reject the man without many offending millions of African Americans that he absolutely must have in the primary and general elections.

Well now, perhaps, he can. Hopefully now it will be possible for Obama to quickly and forcefully reject the man and his rhetoric once and for all and not be seen as rejecting black America at large.

I certainly hope so because Obama MUST reject Wright and his words at this point. No more dancing around the issue.

5. The Real Mark spews:

One of the big problems is that everyone treats the black community as some homogeneous group. And, in some cases, you have power-hungry members (Wright, Sharpton, Jackson) who perpetuate that myth to the detriment of racial relations and understanding.

6. Troll spews:

The best thing Wright could have done is laid low. Speaking out may have endeared him even more to his followers, but it was bad for Obama. I smell the foundation being laid of a big book deal.

7. "Hannah" spews:

Hilary has Bill, who she has told to back off. No Obama has to tell Wright to back off. At least Obama isn’t living in the same house. He’ll get thru this just fine!

8. Daniel K spews:

After watching all of Bill Moyers interview with Wright I think I understand where he is coming from and agree with a lot of what he said.

The issue isn’t what he is saying, it is that most Americans won’t take the time to really understand what he saying.

By asking him to stay quiet you’re essentially making a mockery of the call for a national discussion on race if you cannot include someone as eloquent as Wright in that discussion for fear he will be misunderstood or used by those that have no interest in partaking in that discussion.

9. Daniel K spews:

As to his latest statements, we don’t all have to agree with each other in this country do we?

10. Lee spews:

@9
No we don’t. As I said, the problem isn’t what Wright is saying. The problem is that he keeps insisting that Obama secretly agrees with him.

11. "Hannah" spews:

Well here we go! Obama is clearing the air…Obama 2009!!!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24371827/

12. "Hannah" spews:

Well here we go! Obama is clearing the air…Obama 2009!!!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24371827/

13. My Goldy Itches spews:

This nut job Pastor has been a gift, a Godsend if you will…..to the Republicans. I almost wonder if he is really a Republican agent. Barry Hussein should pay for this Pastor to go on vacation somewhere far far away for the next 9 months or he will be the reason there is a McCain Administration.

14. My Goldy Itches spews:

And another thing…..if Barry Hussein’s Pastor really believes that AIDS was invented by the Pentagon, or that the US flag is the moral equivalent of al Qaeda, what does that say about Barry Hussein?

15. headless lucy spews:

So, what are his nutty ideas? I hear everyone inveighing against them, but not one of them has given an example of a nutty idea taht he’s propounded. Maybe it was serving his country as a Marine for six years?

The narrative now is that Wright’s a nut.

Maybe it’s Wright’s idea that New Orleans was destroyed by God because he was angry about a gay parade they were planning?

Oh, no! That was Rev. James Haggee,the one who endorsed John McCain — the one that McCain is proud to have the endorsement of — and whom he has not to this day disavowed.

Obama should stand by Rev. Wright, but, like most Democrats, he’s weak and vaccillating and SAYS WHAT HE THINKS PEOPLE WANT TO HEAR. That’s why he’s perceived as weak by those who worry about having a strong person at the helm of state. Democrats don’t lose because they look weak — it’s because they are weak.

I think Rev. Wright should speak more — and Lee should speak less.

16. My Goldy Itches spews:

And one more thing, I nominate PBS’s Bill Moyers for his scathing, hard hitting interview with Barry Hussein’s Pastor last Friday. Gee Bill, thanks for not sparing any tough questions for the Reverend. Don’t be so hard on him next time.

17. headless lucy spews:

re 13: One of the ways AIDS was spread throughout Africa was with free polio vaccines that came from the U.S.

How they came to be infected with the AIDS virus is a mystery to this day — kind of like the mystery of how weapons grade anthrax came to be in Tom Brokaw’s mail.

18. Troll spews:

@12

Has Wright been a Godsend to Republicans? I’m not so sure. An AP-Ipsos poll released yesterday says Clinton has a better chance at beating McCain than Obama (by 9%), while Obama and McCain are tied. If that’s true, and Wright knocks Obama out of the picture, how is that a positive for Republicans?

19. headless lucy spews:

re 15: You are the type of small-minded mean,little, fuzz-brained shitheads who still calls French Fries Freedom Fries.

Do you call felafel Freedom Fruit Cake?

20. My Goldy Itches spews:

18 – So you’re saying that Bill Moyers wasn’t a lap dog in that interview who threw soft ball after soft ball to Barry Hussein’s Pastor?

21. Marvin Stamn spews:

1. Roger Rabbit spews:
So it’s the lawyers’ fault, Lee? Maybe in NYC, but around here, I can’t imagine a group more committed to eliminating racism than our judges and lawyers.

  
And how are these these judges/lawyers eliminating racism? By writing laws? Did laws stop murder? Rape? Theft? Laws aren’t going to do shit. Get rid of old people. Retirees are the biggest group of racists. Not blaming them, it was a generational thing taught to them by their parents.
Any doubt that by the time the hip-hop generation are mid 40′s that racism will be solely the domain of those on the fringes.

22. Marvin Stamn spews:

Why is rev wright trying to derail obama? Simple, how is america such a racist country when they elect a black president. That would put all the race hustlers out of business.

23. SeattleJew spews:

Sighhhh ……

Lee,

I have listened to all three of the Rev’s recent speeches at do not think he has ever said that Obama secretly agrees with him on anything. Are you you being affected by the Rovian spin machine?

My take on all this is:

1. We are seeing the ugly face of racism arise across the board. By any rational standard, Jeremiah Wright is far more moderate than many of the acceptable white preachers. He does NOT diss science like Huckabee or Dobson, does not attribute the problems in the Muslim world to some demonic view of others.

What he does do is take a pro-AA view, an energetic view that fall far short in its agenda of the stories we read every day of (White) military evangelicals enforcing their faith or masses of parents home educating their kids to protect them from secular humanism.

Then, of course, there are all the self help ethnic groups .. Catholic Seamen, Jeremiah Federation, Mormon Church, etc.

I guess AA aren’t entitled tom the same thing?

ctd.

24. Daniel K spews:

My Goldy Itches – Who is Barry Hussein?

25. Lee spews:

@13
And another thing…..if Barry Hussein’s Pastor really believes that AIDS was invented by the Pentagon, or that the US flag is the moral equivalent of al Qaeda, what does that say about Barry Hussein?

Absolutely nothing. And if you really think it does say something, then you should be more worried about what THAT says about YOU.

@14
So, what are his nutty ideas? I hear everyone inveighing against them, but not one of them has given an example of a nutty idea taht he’s propounded. Maybe it was serving his country as a Marine for six years?

The AIDS accusations are inexcusable. There’s no serious evidence at all to say that America intentionally gave people AIDS. Also, his attempts to talk about how blacks are more right brained were just plain silly.

On top of that, his attempt to call Louis Farrakhan a hero is just nonsense. The man has a long history of making ridiculous accusations against Jews.

I’ve repeatedly defended Wright when the right wing has distorted the things he’s said in order to make him appear racist. But he still believes in a lot of loony things.

26. SeattleJew spews:

ctd.

2. Wright is obviously an arrogant, self serving egomaniac. He reminds me of Bill Clinton and Ron Barr.

The fact that he is Obama’s minister is all the more reason he ought to put his own ego aside and do what he can for his parishioner.

BTW .. there have been similar characters before … Jimmy Carter’s brother, the Bush’s jhave a wonderful pro Nazi record, Guiliani has thrown arms around Hague, etc.

3. Rev. Wright is VERY bright. Stripped of the near paranoid utterances (is he a diagnosed schiz?) the talk to the Press Club was full of intriguing analogies worthy of Obama himself.

:et me finish with an analysis of the worst of the Rev’s utterances. In commenting on the claim that we spread AIDS, he avoided the question by pointing out that blacks have been misused by medical science. His point, if one could only have seen it through the flashes of Paranoid ideation, is that it is entirely possible in the past that some American agency or company could have decided to conduct a trial in Africa that they would never do in the US. That point by the nutty Rev, is chillingly true.

The bottom line …

27. Lee spews:

@22
I have listened to all three of the Rev’s recent speeches at do not think he has ever said that Obama secretly agrees with him on anything.

In the Bill Moyers interview he clearly made it seem that way. It wasn’t that big of a problem until he doubled-down on some of the truly crazy things he’s said.

I agree with you that he’s far more moderate than guys like Hagee, but that’s not the point here. You cannot defend your craziness simply by saying that there’s someone else who’s crazier. You’re right that Wright is held to a tougher standard, but that’s the card we’re still being dealt in 2008 and we have to play that hand.

28. SeattleJew spews:

The challenge to Obama is a very real one. This IS the result of racism and Rovism. The Pair Clinton has stripped of a layer of liberalism and what is underneath is enough to make many people unwilling to vote to for her. Ethically he holds the upper hand

But ethics are not politiucs. He will need great skill to find a way to contain or turn this issue while retaining hos own ethical standards. None of the options strike me as great:

A. go neg. vs her. Hill’s own chorch os openly antizionist. Her association with Cayman Island accounts is disgusting,

B. Hold a “debate” with Rev Wright.

C. Defend the good deeds the Rev has done and requst tolerance.

29. SeattleJew spews:

@22 Lee

Sorry, I think you have been influenced by the spinners. I listened intently to the Moyers show and have posted it on my blog.

What you may have noted (as have I) is a lack of anyone asking the Rev., “Do you know what BHO thins about …”.

I think the first two public airings were good, the final one at the Press Club really worried me. In fact, his affect reminded me of Hillary!

Wright, like Hillary, laughs inappropriately.

30. Marvin Stamn spews:

It’s very telling that obama has flip-flopped on rev wright. He knows that in order to win the general election he can’t play to the extreme left of the party. It works well in the primaries, but not when it counts.
  
Who is obama going to throw under the bus next?

31. Lee spews:

@29
It’s very telling that obama has flip-flopped on rev wright.

It says a lot more about Reverend Wright than it says about Obama. Or are you going to contend that you’ve never changed your mind about how you’ve felt about a particular human being in your life over the things they’ve done to you?

32. Marvin Stamn spews:

22. SeattleJew spews:

We are seeing the ugly face of racism arise across the board.

  
Interesting point. So obama is not a uniter, but just another political divider.
  
I thought the democrats wanted change.

33. Lee spews:

@31
No, that’s not what SeattleJew meant, not should anyone with half a brain be coming to that conclusion. If you want to enlighten us as to how people with less than half a brain do come to that conclusion, I am officially curious…

34. Mr. Cynical spews:

Too Late Barrack Hussein Obama!
Face it, Obama knew or certainly should have known all of these racist feelings of Wright.
To wait until now to deliver this is disingenuous.
O-blah-blah must deep down agree with his 20-year Pastor and is only saying this now because O-blah-blah will say & do anything to get elected.

So Seattle Jew—
YOUR feelings about Wright changed since you praised him yesterday?? You seem like a reasonable guy on most issues. Why do you close your eyes, cover your ears & scream to not acknowledge what even O-blah-blah must now acknowledge??

35. Marvin Stamn spews:

30. Lee spews:
@29
It’s very telling that obama has flip-flopped on rev wright.

It says a lot more about Reverend Wright than it says about Obama. Or are you going to contend that you’ve never changed your mind about how you’ve felt about a particular human being in your life over the things they’ve done to you?

  
Lee, please put the bong down.
  
What has the reverend “done” to obama. The rev is saying the same stuff he’s been saying for years. The ONLY thing changed is now obama is getting heat for it. If the whole issue of the rev had movedon.org do you honestly think obama would now be distancing himself from it?

36. SeattleJew spews:

@29 flip flopping

I am pretty fed up with this sort of unpatriotic willingness to destroy our system. Are you interested in gotcha politics or government?

I could give a flea’s excrement whether Obama has or has not “flip flopped” of the choice of words he uses. What nonsense. I >DO< care a lot more what he believes.

Assuming you give a damn about this country, what would YOU have Obama do? Disown Rev. Wright because the guy runs off at the mouth? Diminish the man who has done huge amounts of good in his life because he has some goofy ideas?

Who wins from this sort of crap? I will tell you who wins … China, Iran, .. our enemies. Thsi sort of crap gave us the current idiot as well as Nixon. This kind of crap is why I will not vote for Hillary.

Too bad guys like you think the race for the presidency os a race with no ethical, no intellectual and no patriotic standards.

37. SeattleJew spews:

#1, Stamm

It is YOUR reaction to this that unveils the frightening and near to the surface racism WE ALL still suffer from.

Yeh, I AGREE with you … Rev Wright is a racist, BUT .. worse yet he does not KNOW that he is racist. The awesome thing about BHO is that he is NOT a racist. He is a teacher, he is someone we all can learn from.

Look in a mirror.

38. BeerNotWar spews:

DHinMI up on DailyKos basically says what I said earlier…this rant by Wright presents Obama with the opportunity to safely repudiate Wright for good.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/29/152747/672

This may work to his advantage.

39. Marvin Stamn spews:

32. Lee spews:
@31
No, that’s not what SeattleJew meant, not should anyone with half a brain be coming to that conclusion. If you want to enlighten us as to how people with less than half a brain do come to that conclusion, I am officially curious…

  
Democrats are calling each other racist. Look at the way part of the democrat party went after Geraldine Ferraro. Even the first black president is getting heat for being racist.
  
Imagine if someone on the right had accused ferraro of being racist, the entire left would have come to her aid. Now, she’s thrown under the bus.

40. SeattleJew spews:

33. cYNICAL

MY VIEW HAS CHANGED, BUT NOT IN THE WAY YOU SEEM TO THINK.

Until Monday, I felt I recognized in Rev. Wright the same spirit and strength that I know exusts in Seattle in wonderful people like Sam McKinney and Robert Jeffrie, inter alia.

I still believe that. Wright is a brilliant man. Yes he is a racist but so am I. I am a racist when I want my people to survive. I do not hate the Nazis only because they were terrible people, I hate them because they killed so many of my people. That is racism.

As ita happens I also feel strongly about the American people and that includes my feelings of support for those WE have all hurt. So, yes I am a racist who feels WE need to do things for and with the AA people as part of OUR collective guilt for history.

In my racism and I think in Rev. Wright’s there is a common theme .. I do not see my Jewish pride as diminishing my respect for other peoples. Being a Jew does not mean I can not admire the Lummi, the Zuni, the Scots, or the Han.

What is wrong with Bill Clinton is that his racism includes an inability or unwillingness to see that condescension by a white guy toward blacks IS RACIST. Pardon me, but is there anyplace in Rev W’s speaches where HE is condescending or diminutive toward other races?

What kind of racist are you? OR are you willing to move on, as Obama has, to a new level where racism towards others is a thing of the past.

Look in the mirror again?

41. SeattleJew spews:

@38 Ferrar and Clinton are racist. So?

Tell you what I will do for you boobelah. I think Bush Daddy and Mummy were racists. Who bit a condescending white guy would appoint an ahole to the Supreme Court. Do you REALLY think GWB considers Thomas qualified?

I also know of some BBush stories that are hard to relate but she has shown a whitey willingness to tell black folk what they shoud do. That is racist.

You wann know who I think ain’t a racist? Your dumbo Prexy. Lil Bush has many other faults but I can not imagine him taking the condescending stands that HRC and WJC have in this campaign.

Do I make you feel better?

42. Marvin Stamn spews:

35. SeattleJew spews:
@29 flip flopping
I could give a flea’s excrement whether Obama has or has not “flip flopped” of the choice of words he uses. What nonsense. I >DO< care a lot more what he believes.

IMO, the term flip-flop doesn’t mean changing one’s opinion over time as more facts emerge, it’s changing one’s position for political gain. What changed with the rev’s words that caused obama to change his opinion except the public attention. And what does that say about obama, that under scrutiny he is now disowning his reverend. Not very loyal to a man that married him & baptized his kids.
   

Assuming you give a damn about this country, what would YOU have Obama do? Disown Rev. Wright because the guy runs off at the mouth? Diminish the man who has done huge amounts of good in his life because he has some goofy ideas?

obama was a member of his church for 20 years? Did it take obama that long to figure out rev wright runs off at the mouth? Do you believe obama is that dense that it took him that long to figure it out?
Huge amounts of good? Do you sincerely believe the rev’s rhetoric helped his congregation? Do you believe America created AIDS to kill blacks? Unless you do believe, how does that help anyone?
   

Who wins from this sort of crap? I will tell you who wins … China, Iran, .. our enemies. Thsi sort of crap gave us the current idiot as well as Nixon. This kind of crap is why I will not vote for Hillary.

Our enemies?? You’re starting to sound like bush and his axis of evil.
  

Too bad guys like you think the race for the presidency os a race with no ethical, no intellectual and no patriotic standards.

Name the last president you believe had those standards.

43. Lee spews:

@34
What has the reverend “done” to obama.

He’s made it more difficult for him to become President. You can’t possibly be this stupid, Marvin.

44. Goldy Hussein Goldstein spews:

This morning Barack H. Obama committed unkacide. Having tossed his typically white grandmother last month, while saying he could not and would not whack his crazy lovable old uncle in the attic, Barack H. Obama whacked and tossed his crazy lovable old uncle this morning.

Hannah, Puddy, and I want to believe that Barack H. Obama is the second coming of hope and hopefulness to our politics, and that he repudiates the Clinton politics of personal destruction. Too bad that BHO is so destructive of his family: Granny dissed big time, batshit uncle Wright thrown under a trash-talk express.

Too had for Hannah, who wants to believe that Barack H. Obama cannot tell a lie, that the political, personal, destructive destruction of the Religious Wright displays Obama’s lies about what Obama knew of Wright’s craziness, and when Obama knew it.

45. Goldy Hussein Goldstein spews:

Salk AIDS 4 Africa: pudless lucy picked up a piece of lunacy from the lunatic fringe, Rolling Stone, and spins it into TUCC batshit.

About 15 years ago Rolling Stone got stoned and published nonsense about tainted Salk/Sabin polio vaccine (probably cooked up by blue-eyed devils at Ft. Dietrich), and of course lucy hung her little brain on the back of the bar and fell off the stool. The rest of the world reverted to sanity — not even Rolling Stone stands by its spew — but lucy’s still thrashing on the floor.

46. Marvin Stamn spews:

39. SeattleJew spews:
As ita happens I also feel strongly about the American people and that includes my feelings of support for those WE have all hurt. So, yes I am a racist who feels WE need to do things for and with the AA people as part of OUR collective guilt for history.

  
“OUR” collective guilt? What did *I* do to deserve this guilt? Be born white? I have sympathy for what blacks had to go through, but not an iota of guilt.
  
If you want to make the argument that because I grew up in los angeles and in the music business (I was 17 the first time I was in the office of barry gordy with a band I played in) that my view of racism is skewed, quite possibly.
   
Isn’t it a little condescending to think “we need to do things for” blacks? Unlike years ago, I believe today blacks can do for themselves. Maybe if I didn’t believe that blacks were as capable as any other race maybe I would feel I had to “do for them.”

47. Goldy Hussein Goldstein spews:

Beer has the audacity to hope that Barack H. Obama can click his heels together three times, wash the Religious Wright out of his hair, keep black-Afro voters on the Democrat plantation, and make twenty years disappear.

And twenty thousand dollars, Obama’s recent contribution to Wright’s empire (gated-community mansion, open line of TUCC-subsidized credit).

And Wright’s officiating at Obama’s wedding.

And Wright baptizing Obama’s children.

And Wright The Mentor giving Obama (not quite the right amount of black) enough black for cred in the mean streets of Chicago.

48. Marvin Stamn spews:

42. Lee spews:
@34
What has the reverend “done” to obama.
He’s made it more difficult for him to become President. You can’t possibly be this stupid, Marvin.

I understand politically why obama is disowning the rev. It isn’t going to benefit him in the general election to be linked with wright. The only thing changed is it’s becoming public knowledge what the rev was/is saying.
  
Imagine if mccain went to the church of david duke. Was married and had his kids baptized by duke. Then after 20 years when the media is up mccains ass about his ties to david duke he then disowns him. Wouldn’t you consider that pandering? Don’t you hold your side to the same standard as you hold the reps?

49. Goldy Hussein Goldstein spews:

Troll asks us why Wright’s such a goofy guy, popping up like whack-a-mole at just the worst time for Barack H. Obama.

Errol Louis, NY Daily News, wrote that Wright’s incendiary rant at the National Press Club was a plot by the deucedly clever Clintons. Part of the rest of the story is here.

50. Lee spews:

@47
I understand politically why obama is disowning the rev. It isn’t going to benefit him in the general election to be linked with wright.

You think so, Einstein? How’d you figure that one out?

The only thing changed is it’s becoming public knowledge what the rev was/is saying.

No, what’s changed is that Wright continues to say the things that Obama has repudiated and is dropping huge insinuations that Obama agrees with him.

Imagine if mccain went to the church of david duke. Was married and had his kids baptized by duke. Then after 20 years when the media is up mccains ass about his ties to david duke he then disowns him. Wouldn’t you consider that pandering? Don’t you hold your side to the same standard as you hold the reps?

First of all, Jeremiah Wright is not even close to the same universe at David Duke. The worst Wright has done in terms of racism (despite SeattleJew’s typically bizarre take) is to praise Farrakhan. Duke has been far worse than that.

Second, if John McCain had a pastor whose oddball beliefs became a liability, I wouldn’t hold that against him so long as he demonstrated that he was aware they were oddball beliefs. And on that note, the fact that he has been proud of his association with John Hagee is far worse than Obama’s relationship with Wright.

51. Puddybud spews:

Moronic_Lucy@14-24×7:

Where did John Hagee say he’s McCain’s spiritual advisor? Where did McCain say he attends Hagee’s church. Wrong argument from a moronic racist.

52. Puddybud spews:

Golly headless-lucy-24×7 moron: Drinking too much koolaid?

blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/10/aids-didnt-come.html

Been Reading too much Rolling Stone while being stoned back in 1992 headless lucy?

53. Puddybud spews:

Or how about your friends in the NY Times:

query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE7DE1F38F930A15753C1A964958260

Another headless post I call BULLSHITTIUM on.

54. SeattleJew spews:

@45 Stamm the Troll from One Honest Enough to be IDd.

Can’t ypou spell. I used the term W-E. That spe;;s we. We as in, We, Americans.” We … Rev. Wright, you and I owe a debt to those “we”, asa country have hurt. We owe this debt at least as much as “We” owe property right to Gates’ kids, land rights to folks with Spanish grants, or the debt ‘We” Washingtoninans owe to th eindgenous folks who own 50% of all salmon.

Frankly, I see myself as an American .. in that capacity I am very privileged to have certain inalienable rights inherited from “my” ancestors. My own relatives unlucky enough not to become Americans died. I also have obligations, don’t you?

55. Mr. Cynical spews:

SeattleJew@39
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is the most babbling, drivel you have ever spewed!!
Do you enjoy looking for ways to feel “offended” and finding others who should feel “offended”?
Perhaps we should dub you

THE PERPETUALLY OFFENDED SEATTLEJEW

56. Mr. Cynical spews:

SeattleJew–
“Now David was greatly distressed, for the people spoke of stoning him, because the soul of all the people was grieved, every man for his sons & daughters. But David strengthened himself in the LORD his God.”
—1 Samuel 30:6

How can you hang on to all this guilt & offense when you know the story of David?????
Think about how David treated Saul. Saul was trying to kill him!
Living your life filled with a bunch on jive-ass, contrived guilt is exactly what Satan would love to see you do.
Get over it.
Get over feeling so easily offended.
Good Luck-

57. Marvin Stamn spews:

53. SeattleJew spews:
@45 Stamm the Troll from One Honest Enough to be IDd.

Can’t ypou spell. I used the term W-E. That spe;;s we. We as in, We, Americans.” We … Rev. Wright, you and I owe a debt to those “we”, asa country have hurt. We owe this debt at least as much as “We” owe property right to Gates’ kids, land rights to folks with Spanish grants, or the debt ‘We” Washingtoninans owe to th eindgenous folks who own 50% of all salmon.

  
What the fuck are you muttering?
  

“Can’t ypou spell?”

Noo, i ca’nt” speol. Im’ naught ass edukated as uwe.
  
  
If you feel you owe someone a debt, pay up!!! Don’t expect the government to right the wrongs “YOU” feel guilty about.
  
Do you eat salmon? How do you pay back the “eindgenous” folks that own 50% of all salmon?
  
How much of your salary do you give to blacks? How much to the native indians on whose land your residence sits? Hey, give your land back to the “eindgenous” folks if you feel guilty. It’s your obligation.
  
Unlike you, I only owe to people I have wronged. If you’ve wronged people and feel guilty, pay up you selfish old man. Don’t hold me responsible for your sins!!

58. headless lucy spews:

Lee: It is well known that the U.S. government knew of many black people in the south who had syphylis and did not cure them just so that they could watch the progression of the disease. The Military exposed soldiers to dangerous radiation levels just to study the results. The military gave huge doses of LSD to soldiers to study the results of that.

The U.S. has secret torture prisons all over the world and they just snatch whoever they want and send them there. The U.S. has started several wars with faked up incidents..

But, would they introduce a disease in Africa through polio medication just to document the results? Well I guess anyone who would suggest such a thing must be a ‘wackadoodle’!

59. headless lucy spews:

re 54: George Bush stole the 2000 and 2004 elections. It’s well documented — despite the fact that you can find a few newspaper articles and a few lying sacks of crap like John Fund who say otherwise.

60. Lee spews:

@57
Lee: It is well known that the U.S. government knew of many black people in the south who had syphylis and did not cure them just so that they could watch the progression of the disease.

I’m not denying that at all.

The Military exposed soldiers to dangerous radiation levels just to study the results. The military gave huge doses of LSD to soldiers to study the results of that.

I’m well aware of this.

But, would they introduce a disease in Africa through polio medication just to document the results? Well I guess anyone who would suggest such a thing must be a ‘wackadoodle’!

Wright is not suggesting that they COULD do it. He’s suggesting that they DID do it. As someone who cares very much about justice and the idea of being innocent until proven guilty, I have enormous problems with that.

62. Puddybud spews:

Moronic Lucy@58:

My standard pat answer. Why did his home state reject him in 2000?

Answer – He was a Moonbat!

63. Marvin Stamn spews:

58. headless lucy spews:
re 54: George Bush stole the 2000 and 2004 elections. It’s well documented — despite the fact that you can find a few newspaper articles and a few lying sacks of crap like John Fund who say otherwise.

  
The left leaning liberal NY Times even admits it. What is so hard for you to understand? The writer, RICHARD L. BERKE isn’t black so you can trust him.
   
The comprehensive review of the uncounted Florida ballots solidifies George W. Bush’s legal claim on the White House because it concludes that he would have won under the ground rules prescribed by the Democrats.
  
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9400E3DB1338F931A25752C1A9679C8B63

64. Marvin Stamn spews:

58. headless lucy spews:
re 54: George Bush stole the 2000 and 2004 elections. It’s well documented — despite the fact that you can find a few newspaper articles and a few lying sacks of crap like John Fund who say otherwise.

The left leaning liberal NY Times even admits it. What is so hard for you to understand? The writer, RICHARD L. BERKE isn’t black so you can trust him.

The comprehensive review of the uncounted Florida ballots solidifies George W. Bush’s legal claim on the White House because it concludes that he would have won under the ground rules prescribed by the Democrats.

query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9400E3DB1338F931A25752C1A9679C8B63

65. headless lucy spews:

re 59: Sometimes one must make a reasonable assumption based on the evidence at hand. Judging correctly what your government is capable of can be a life or death thing.

I know that you are not so naive as to think that the U.S is just a lumbering, friendly giant that occasionally makes a mistake.

We may find a dead mouse in our pocket from time to time and accidently strangle the farmer’s daughter — but basically, we mean well!

I’m sure the reference is not lost on you, although it may leave Marvin scratchin’ his noggin.

66. Lee spews:

@60
That article doesn’t even hint at the notion that it was deliberate. It’s an unproven theory about how AIDS may have begun. That’s not even close to a justification for what Wright has said.

67. Lee spews:

@63
Sometimes one must make a reasonable assumption based on the evidence at hand. Judging correctly what your government is capable of can be a life or death thing.

This is the same logic that leads to locking up “terrorists” based upon what you can imagine them doing. It’s a perversion of how justice is supposed to work and it’s wrong regardless of who does it.

I know that you are not so naive as to think that the U.S is just a lumbering, friendly giant that occasionally makes a mistake.

No, America’s problems stem from having ideologues in the government. That doesn’t mean that we can accuse it of things it hasn’t done.

68. Marvin Stamn spews:

63. headless lucy spews:
I’m sure the reference is not lost on you, although it may leave Marvin scratchin’ his noggin.

 
Not lost on me. A racist keeps bragging about the killing of blacks by the american government. I’d expect nothing less from someone that can’t be around blacks.

69. My Goldy Itches spews:

We are going to have Barry Hussein’s Pastor to thank for a McCain Administration. He’s the gift that keeps on giving.

70. Mr. Cynical spews:

headlice lucy & Rev Wright drink the same kool-aid! Conspiracy theories du jour.
You 2 KLOWNS are birds of a feather.
Have you heard the expression “Fringe Lunatic Left”?? That will be on both of your tombstones KLOWN.

71. Mr. Cynical spews:

Ask PacMan & Puddy–
Most of the KLOWNS on this Blog have ZERO Black Friends and Black Guys make them nerrrrrrrrrrvous. So they vent their guilt-feelings thru supporting KLOWNS like Wright. PS Black Folks have their share of KLOWNS too!

72. Mr. Cynical spews:

SeattleJew–
Sheesh…you are sooooo guilt-ridden, I see you as the poor prisoner dragging the heavy ball & chain around your neck.
SJ–You are a Prisoner in your own Mind!
Get a grip.
Guilt is the Devil’s due.

73. Mr. Cynical spews:

From http://www.exposeobama.com–
____________________________________________

Sometimes you can tell by your enemies just how well you are doing. And the ExposeObama.com website and our television ad are certainly stirring up a hornet’s nest!

ExposeObama.com’s first ad called “Victims” tells the story of three innocent people murdered in gang violence in Chicago in 2001. The ad draws a parallel between Obama’s 2001 vote to oppose stricter penalties against gang members and his likely weakness on dealing with Islamic terrorists.

The ad is as powerful as the short description suggests and consequently generated thousands of phone and email responses.

The positive ones ranged from “Keep it up,” and “Great work,” to “I am sending money,” and, “How about hitting him on _________ (fill in the blank)?” We are grateful for all the positive responses.

The negative comments shed a different light on the ads effectiveness in a manner similar to throwing rocks at a wasp’s nest — if you miss, nothing comes out. But if you hit, you can expect a swarm.

We hit.

Following are a sampling of some of the enlightening, but edited, comments we’ve received. I broke them down into three categories — Accusations of Racism, General Accusations and Cursing and Gnashing of Teeth.

The strange accusation is one of racism. The ad, our website and our promotional materials have nothing in them racist. The ad is about crime and terrorism, the website is about Obama’s position on issues, and the promotional materials are a combination of both. Race is not the issue; rather it is Obama’s left-wing liberalism. And yet, it is interpreted as racism. Strange…

Before going on, prepare yourself for the swarm. We definitely caused a reaction.

I have found that some people want to see and hear from the other side to better understand them, in order to combat them, while other people prefer to simply move their own agenda forward. Both are legitimate positions to take, but, if you are more of the latter than the former, I would stop right here.

Accusations of Racism

From Michael: You are all a bunch of racist morons.
From Lemuel: Is this going to Willie Horton all over again? Are you the same bigot who put together that misleading ad?
From Cliff: You are, sadly, too ignorant and racist for words. You represent the absolute worst of American politics.
From Alycia: What’s wrong with you or are you really another undercover racist pig.
From Klmanjaro33: Filthy children of Satan. People can see through your racist agenda.
From Jeremy: That is the most disgusting racist, negative ad that I have ever seen.
From Pegge: You are one racist sicko sir (I use that term to give you the respect I assume you think you deserve).
From Chris: You are a hateful, disgusting bigot. Your despicable fear mongering is nothing but a thinly veiled attempt to hijack the democratic process with your ignorance.
From Esterlene: You are truly a sick racist. May God have mercy on your soul.

General Accusations

From Mark: Bonehead. No, I’m sorry, I meant BONEHEAD!
From Emcegue: Your ad is the most despicable ad I have ever seen.
From Campbell: Your organization represents the worst of American politics! I cannot imagine how you look at yourselves in the mirror — let alone how you can face your children and admit what you do for a living.
From Doug: You are truly pathetic for putting out this piece of garbage.
From Tedvail: So the swift-boating on Obama is starting. Guess what? We are ready. We will find out who you are and where you are and expose you for what you are — un-American slimebags.
From Tiffany: You are a fear mongering idiot with no concern for our country.
From Tucker: You should be ashamed, you dishonest fool. Your creation of such a deceitful website just hints at how deep and festering your own self-loathing must be.
From Eric: You are disgusting, despicable people…may you rot in hell…all of you….

Cursing and Gnashing of Teeth

From Nick: How about you take this ad and shove it up your racist, neo-con, right wing, ***.
From Sam: Hey you. You ******* Red-Necked Honkeys!!, there’s no shame to your game huh? I hope you all rot in hell!!!!
From Bette: You have the nerve to try to destroy a honorable man with this filthy bull ****? I know you are white because anything you guys do, you will either, lie, cover it up or try, like now to smear, smear.
From Palmer: What are you – some f****** Nazi? You’re being watched I hope.
From Joshua: **** all you guys.
From Jerry: You are an absolute piece of low-life ****! I pray that you drop dead. Soon. **** You and all your kind.
From Kristopher: You are a piece of ****, and I hope you rot in hell with Rush. . . you anti-American Nazi *****.

74. SeattleJew spews:

@55 Mr. Cynical

Wel, it seems you and the Rev Wright might get along real well. For what it is worth I do not think I need to live up to David. Hew as pretty bad character so I hop I can do better.

As to “guilt” .. if you think you, as an American, do not have RESPONSIBILITY for what OUR country does then you do not deserve to benefit from what our country offers.

You give me faith and understanding, faith in my own commitment to being the best American I can and understanding of how yellow tail patriots like Chaney and Bush come to be.

75. SeattleJew spews:

@71 Mr. Cynical

Whatcha so scared of bubbelah?

What makes you think I feel guilty about what I did. I have never said such thing. I do feel that WE .. you, I and the rest of us Americans have a wonderful legacy to live up to and that includes obligations to fulfill.

But then maybe you do not feel that way? Is that why you never served in the military? Or maybe that is why you think the rest of us should pay for the roads you use?

Ok bubbelah, I have a deal for you. For today only, if you agree, you will agree NOT to use any of the benefits of ebign an American and I will agree you have no responsibility either. May your gawd help you!

76. Marvin Stamn spews:

73. SeattleJew spews:
I do feel that WE .. you, I and the rest of us Americans have a wonderful legacy to live up to and that includes obligations to fulfill.

  
I can see why as a democrat you feel an obligation. Your party was the slave owner party. Your party used hoses and dogs on blacks. Your party tied it’s best to make sure the civil rights act never happened. Hell, your party even rounded up those japanese folks and threw them in camps.
  
You’re right, your party has a lot to feel obligated about. Decades and decades of mistreating people has taken a toll on your souls.

77. SeattleJew spews:

@65 Lee

Right!

The problem hee is not that Jeremiah Wright is out to get the whiteys for inventing AIDS, the problem is that he does not give a shit that he is offending others by his language. He is like a friend of mine who dresses like a Black thug. When I pointed this out to him and noted that the appearance was intimidating to most white folks, he changed OUT OF RESPECT for other (white folks) people.

Wrights bug error is not his beliefs it is his lack of respect for his fellow Americans.

The analogy is simple. Don Imus’ is anything but a bigot. YET he used words that hurt others deeply. His error was a lack of understanding that Black folks do not like their daughters called HOs by white folks.

I wonder if the rabid dogs, including dem dogs what is bitches, would feel any better if instead of the Rev blaming Americans, the speaker was some White preacher .. sayyy errr uhhh Bill Clinotn, who came out against black folks because of the claims by the ANC that AIDS is not caused by HIV? Yep, that Clinton guy is a racist!

This is disgusting.

78. SeattleJew spews:

74 and what party is “my party?”

My only party is America. I vote for patriotic, responsible leaders who will defend the principles, put forward by Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, Marshall, Roosevelt, King.

The first among these to even claim he belonged to a party was Roosevelt or perhaps Madison and that party was called the Republican Party.

If you mean the GOP Party founded at the time of Lincoln, I am not such a fan since I, along with Jefferson, do believe in states’ rights.

If you mean the party of Bush and Nixon, the party of free for all violation of the rule of law, then no I guess i am not one of them guys.

Scratch my surface and all youweill find is an effin American.

79. PacMan - the best game in town spews:

America and Post Racialism – How far have we come?

In consideration of Obama’s success in the presidential primary one must wonder if America has finally reached the ‘post-racial’ era. The amount of money he’s raised, not to mention the amount of votes he’s received from whites and the distance he’s come against established politicians such as the Clintons would suggest that America is slowly approaching this post-racial era.

The term ‘post-racial’ in its most innocent connotation means a society where race in no longer an issue. In an article published by the ‘New Republic”, David Duke commented that he was somewhat nonchalant about Obama and white nationalists like himself don’t see much difference between Obama and Clinton – or McCain. This is an indication that even white supremacists don’t hate Obama. They’re not exactly having parties to celebrate his successes but over that last decade they have accepted the possibilities of a non-white US president

Trevor Phillips, the British chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission attributes Obama’s rapid rise in US politics to “White Liberals” search for the idea post-racial society. He continues by suggesting that white Americans have more invested in Obama than does black Americans.

Obama’s optimism, honesty, and charisma far exceeds race which makes his race secondary to his abilities to persuade the American public that he can, in fact, do the job. The irony however is the media who is using his candidacy to help identify and promote post-racialism is on the other hand, the very entity promoting the racial divide. The media, during its analysis of the primaries looks at the racial demographics break down of the votes and highlights ever opportunity that get suggesting a racial divide in voting habits. In a post-racial society, racial demographics should not be the main focus if we want to truly go beyond the race issue.

Overall, Obama’s success suggests that we as Americans have come a long way while still having a long way to go before we can claim true post racialism.

While Jermiah Wright has posed a challenge for America he will prove to be the very vehicle to get us over the hump of racial divide and usher America into the post-racial era…but it will require an Obama victory. An Obama lost will futher widen the racial divide. With this in mind the success of the post-racial era of America is on the line.

80. SeattleJew spews:

@74

I guess form your last post that you consider yourself a REPUBLIC-can rather than an AMERIIC-can?

Maybe you ned to find aome other country to live in? I think you owuld be very comfortable in Saudi Arabia, ain’t no Democrats there! or maybe Russia????

YEHH .. YEAH … lets send all the repricans back to where they came from, Russia! You and Putin, whada pair!

81. Marvin Stamn spews:

76. SeattleJew spews:

I, along with Jefferson, do believe in states’ rights.

When raygun talked about state rights he was called a racist.

82. headless lucy spews:

re 65: Can you ‘prove’ that cops and other officials do racial profiling?

Probably not.

Would you advise minorities to act upon the assumption that it does not happen because they would be hard pressed to prove it in a court of law?

I don’t think you would.

Your argument about an ‘unproven theory’ is the same sort of logical fallacy as the creationist argument. Wright’s theory of the origen of AIDS is backed up with facts. It is a rational, although unproven, theory. What’s your theory — beyond telling Wright to shut up so that he doesn’t offend the yahoos — like Marvin.

83. Puddybud spews:

@80:

“Can you ‘prove’ that cops and other officials do racial profiling?”

Yes I can prove it. It happened to me twice. One on the east coast and once on the west coast. Each time he said he was just doing a check.

84. Marvin Stamn spews:

80. headless lucy spews:
Can you ‘prove’ that cops and other officials do racial profiling?

Probably not.

  
Probably not = I’m too stupid and racist to back up my words with facts.
  
No doubt it puts a thrill up your leg knowing that cops profile based on race. Is mark furhman your friend, you both live in very very white neighborhoods in the pacific northwest. And you both have problems being around blacks.

85. Daniel K spews:

My Goldy Itches – Who is Barry Hussein? (still waiting)

86. My Goldy Itches spews:

83 – I thought it was obvious, but he’s the guy running for President with the last name Obama.

87. headless lucy spews:

re 82: You are a blithering idiot. When are you going to denounce the Republican governor of S. Carolina for flying the Confederate flag on the state capitol dome?

Marvin is a racist.

88. YLB spews:

77 – PacMan. I see you’re bringing a lofty “intellectual” tone here. You’ve declared our society is “post-racial” and implied that those who have reservations about this “good news” suffer pangs of “racial inferiority”.

Well, that’s certainly news to the fear mongerers like Mr. Cynical and the execrable My Goldy Itches who in particular has posited that America is not ready for the first “muslim” president.

This is how your peeps do PacMan.

I certainly hope all the fear and uncertainty and doubt promulgated by the far right will not push the intemperate, unfit McCain into the White House.

However the recent track record of the forces of fear does not point in the most positive of directions.

89. SeattleJew spews:

@79 Reagan was called a racist because he WAS a racist. He was using code words to defend segregation and Jim Crow. That is a damninlgly wide distance from Jefferson’s idea that States should regulate their own commerce.

Mr. Jefferson, probably better than anyone of his time, understood the hypocrisy that he himself was entrapped by. His original draft of the Declaration condemns slavery as incompatible with the self evident truths of equality.

Mr. Lincoln, OTOH, saw sovereignty of the union as more important than slavery. Two very different views in ways not so flattering to Lincoln.

90. SeattleJew spews:

81 .. Puddy,

Y9ou are one of the few people here who might actually have some insight into the Rev W issues. Would you be willing to write something here or .. if you want to write something longer I would welcome it at SJ.

91. Lee spews:

@85
Sorry, Headless Lucy, but you’re the one being a blithering idiot here.

Your argument about an ‘unproven theory’ is the same sort of logical fallacy as the creationist argument. Wright’s theory of the origen of AIDS is backed up with facts.

No it’s not. It’s not backed up with any facts at all. What you linked to above actually does more to prove that Wright is completely wrong than anything else.

92. Marvin Stamn spews:

89. Lee spews:
@85
Sorry, Headless Lucy, but you’re the one being a blithering idiot here.

  
You know it’s a sad day for Lee when he agrees with me.

93. Marvin Stamn spews:

85. headless lucy spews:
re 82: You are a blithering idiot. When are you going to denounce the Republican governor of S. Carolina for flying the Confederate flag on the state capitol dome?

Ask me about California where I live. I’ve never lived in s carolina, nor have I ever voted in s carolina.
  
And something else you idiot, you’ve never seen me write that the gop/reps are right. I only point out the racist and hypocritical ways of your stinkin’ party.
  
You still haven’t addressed the issue why it’s so hard for a white racist like you to be around blacks 24/7. And unlike your 3 chord guitar playing music career I’ve lived the dream. A big part of my playing career was in the R&B genre, I’ve traveled with blacks. You know, the 24/7 in touring buses. Tell us, why can’t you be around blacks. The more you avoid the more racist you come off.
   

Marvin is a racist.

Like Lee said, you’re a blithering idiot.

94. PacMan - the best game in town spews:

@ 77

“PacMan. I see you’re bringing a lofty “intellectual” tone here. You’ve declared our society is “post-racial” and implied that those who have reservations about this “good news” suffer pangs of “racial inferiority”.

Actually, my comment was sugesting that America is approaching a post-racial society. I made no declaraton that such a society already existed. The racial inferiority statement applies to people who for some reason like to interject racial comments in non-racial discussions to mask their own racial inferiorities which is what I perceived you were doing in a previous post regarding Taylor.

This is not to imply that everyone who opposes Obama is a racist or oppose him for racial reasons. I like Obama and believe he is capable of doing the job, particularly in view of our current option, but Obama is not my first choice, or second choice for president. However, given the options we have I believe he is the best of the three to replace the current administration.

As far as the people you named in your comment they can speak for themselves and I am certain they will if they feel it necessary to do so.

96. headless lucy spews:

…and he was most definitely not wearing a flag lapel-pin.

Lee, if the link I provided you with has caused such a reaction in you, you must have some doubt as to the veracity of your own belief about the AIDS controversy.

The thing that you must keep in mind is that it was KNOWN that these batches of polio vaccine were tainted.

Why were they used.

As for Marvin, since you’ve stated that you won’t comment on anything outside your home state of California, I take that to mean that you will not be commenting much on this blog.

I’ll bet that you are just full of crap, once again, Marvin the Martian

97. headless lucy spews:

re 91: “You still haven’t addressed the issue why it’s so hard for a white racist like you to be around blacks 24/7. And unlike your 3 chord guitar playing music career I’ve lived the dream. A big part of my playing career was in the R&B genre, I’ve traveled with blacks. You know, the 24/7 in touring buses. Tell us, why can’t you be around blacks. The more you avoid the more racist you come off.”

I never said I was white, you did. And the reason I know that being around black people 24/7 CAN be stressful, is that is the environment I grew up in.

Have your neighbors ever burnt down the whole neighborhood? 24/7 Marvin — you name dropping third rate musical pimp.

98. Marvin Stamn spews:

95. headless lucy spews:
re 91: “You still haven’t addressed the issue why it’s so hard for a white racist like you to be around blacks 24/7. And unlike your 3 chord guitar playing music career I’ve lived the dream. A big part of my playing career was in the R&B genre, I’ve traveled with blacks. You know, the 24/7 in touring buses. Tell us, why can’t you be around blacks. The more you avoid the more racist you come off.”
I never said I was white, you did. And the reason I know that being around black people 24/7 CAN be stressful, is that is the environment I grew up in.

If you are black I can’t imagine the self-hate that festers in you. You would make those reps that are against gay marriage yet trolling bathrooms look downright balanced.
So you grew up in a black environment and you think ALL blacks are like that? Isn’t that in it’s self racist, to think all blacks are alike?

Have your neighbors ever burnt down the whole neighborhood?

My grandma’s house where I used to play all the time. 35th & vermont, watts riots. The actions of a few blacks didn’t poison me to ALL blacks.

24/7 Marvin — you name dropping third rate musical pimp.

It’s my resume and I’m proud of it. Teena Marie, Temptations, Mary Wells, Martha Reeves, etc. I’ve been very fortunate that my hard work paid off and I was able to perform with so many legends of music.

99. Lee spews:

@94
Lee, if the link I provided you with has caused such a reaction in you, you must have some doubt as to the veracity of your own belief about the AIDS controversy.

The link you provided didn’t change my opinion at all about AIDS. We still do not know how it formed. And that is just one theory. Even so, that theory is very far from being justification for Wright’s accusation. Wright is saying that the U.S. government infected people on purpose. Considering that AIDS was completely unknown within the medical community at the time those vaccines were given, it’s very hard to believe that there was maliciousness involved.

The thing that you must keep in mind is that it was KNOWN that these batches of polio vaccine were tainted.

Absolutely not. Not even the article you linked to makes this assertion. Please, for your own sake, take a step back and use your brain. You’re making a complete ass of yourself.

100. Marvin Stamn spews:

97. Lee spews:
@94
You’re making a complete ass of yourself.

  
Like popeye said, I am what I am. headless lucy the 3 chord guitar playing racist is only being himself.

101. Puddybud spews:

Lee@97: My Philadelphia ‘burb brother from another mother of a different color, you are asking the impossible.

Headless 24×7 Lucy can’t change his spots.

I am glad you are finally agreeing with many of us. Congratulations.

102. Puddybud spews:

SeattleJew: I think I will write something. I was talking to my second oldest brother and he and I had a great conversation around Wright.

103. Puddybud spews:

clueless idiot: I guess Heilary gets a pass when she breaches the chasm on Obama and Wright.

Yet you decry Republicans… Again your blind eye.

104. SeattleJew spews:

Hillary has lost my support permanently. Either she is a dolt or she knows very well what the limits of racism are.

Her willingness to get down in the swamp give me huge worries that she is not able morally to be President AND we know all to well what that sort of deficiency means.

Look, I can even argue thag ti would be in her interest to appear presidential by supporting Obama on this matter, albeit in a subtly white girl condescending way. The fact that she has not done this makes me very worried.

105. SeattleJew spews:

@100 Puddy One thing is clear, white folks are still blissfully ignorant of what goes in in the AA community and (some) AA are blissfully unaware that they can hurt others too.

Until MOnday, I supported Wright. Now I wonder .. why the clown act? He reminded me of Amos and Andy or Step’n fetchit. He was a sad characture, a demeaning characture, of the guy who two days before was very impressive.

I wondered if he had had a mental breakdown?

106. Marvin Stamn spews:

SeattleJew spews:
Hillary has lost my support permanently

All those years the clintons kept blaming the vast-right-wing-conspiracy and no one on the left could see the truth. Imagine if the left realized the clintons were liars and didn’t allow the clintons to divide the country. Oh well, at least some on the left are finally getting it.
  

Until MOnday, I supported Wright. Now I wonder ..

And again… without the right-wing-conspiracy the left wouldn’t see the damage this man has done to divide the country.
It’s good the left are finally catching up. Better late than never.

107. SeattleJew spews:

106 Stamm

You are one sicko. The worst one can say of Hillary is that she is behaving like a Rovian. No she is not quite in the Republican league. After all, they manged to turn a little oral sex into an impeachment trial and tried to paint her with everything up to a murder charge .. rather like the murder charge that Mrs. Bush git set aside when she was a young un. Has anyone tried to smear her with what she did? no.

So, yeh she is a buitch and a racist, all of which puts here sev3eral notches above the rats and bacteria that make up the world of the radical right.

As for Mr. Wright, again you are to much a race bigot to see the difference between a vain man steeped in his own ethnic culture and the Dobson, Robertson cabal and their willingness to destroy OUR country.

I would no more give the rabid right the credit for showing us any of this than I would credit Hitler for fixing Germany’s economy.

109. headless lucy spews:

PudWax, I never said that Haggee was McCain’s spiritual advisor. I said that Haggee had endorsed McCain and McCain said he was ‘proud’ to have the endorsement.

So, why are you lying? You speak with a forked tongue.

AND

Marvin: Grow up. You fail to denounce the governor of S. Carolina from flying the confederate flag on the specious grounds that you don’t comment on things happening out of your home state, California. Then you proceed to comment about many things far and wide that have nothing to do with California.

I’m not in California, yet you constantly berate me for being a racist for the totally innocuous comment I made that black people can be difficult to to be around 24/7.

Don’t you have any sense of proportion? You are obviously deranged.

110. Puddybud spews:

Nutcase Lucy 24×7: You whipped out the standard moral equivalence argument.

We’re discussing Dr Wright and you say but but but… John Hagee and John McCain…

This has NOTHING to do with Hagee and everything to do with Wright.

But don’t allow the single celled organism called your pea brain get in the way of that fact.

111. headless lucy spews:

re 110: As GBS stated: There’s definitely a lot of cream in the coffee when it comes to you.

Defending Haggee. You are a disgrace to humanity.

112. Lee spews:

@108
Here’s the Snopes page on this nonsense. Will you please stop making an ass of yourself?

113. Marvin Stamn spews:

109. headless lucy spews:
I’m not in California, yet you constantly berate me for being a racist for the totally innocuous comment I made that black people can be difficult to to be around 24/7.

  
Why do you consider the truth as berating? You are a racist. Why you keep repeating it is beyond me.
  
Let me help you figure it out…
If you said, the smith family which happens to be black is hard to be around 24/7 you personalized it. You didn’t, and still don’t say that. You feel blacks are hard to be around 24/7. Blacks as meaning all blacks, not specific persons. You see blacks as all the same. You mentioned your neighborhood being burned down by blacks, that sucks. If you didn’t know, not all blacks were in on it. Some were at work, some at school, some home with the families. You saw a small segment of the black population wrong you yet you hold all blacks responsible for it. That headless, makes you racist.

114. Marvin Stamn spews:

107. SeattleJew spews:
106 Stamm
You are one sicko. The worst one can say of Hillary is that she is behaving like a Rovian. No she is not quite in the Republican league. After all, they manged to turn a little oral sex into an impeachment trial and tried to paint her with everything up to a murder charge ..

How naive are you to think that the clintons were once above doing anything rovian? Remember how the clinton people treated all those women that spoke about clinton and his sexual harrassing? Sluts & nuts, bimbo eruption, etc. How rovian. Go ahead and defend clintons, fool yourself that they only changed recently in this presidential campaign.
    

rather like the murder charge that Mrs. Bush git set aside when she was a young un. Has anyone tried to smear her with what she did? no.

You feel mrs bush murdered that guy? And what, karl rove stepped in to stop the charges from being pressed? And yes, the left has tried to smear her. Google it. Or like lee just posted a link to snopes proving headless lucy’s stupidity, http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp
I would like to think you’re just trolling back and not really one of those left-wing-loons that believe she murdered him.

115. headless lucy spews:

re 112: My contention never was that the CIA ‘created’ AIDS. You are as bad as the WingNutz for taking a position and standing by it come hell or high water.

So, Some little blurb on ‘snopes’ trumps a scholarly article in LEE’S WORLD — as long as the snopes blurb supports your contention — which it doesn’t. I’ll get you a better link to the article so you can compare it to ‘snopes’ — a family you may well be a member of.

Your position is that of the common wisdom — that simplistic narrative that keeps America ignorant. YOU are the clownish oaf, Lee. And you now have Marvin and Puddybud as your ideological cohorts.

I have no respect for one such as you. Stop making an ass of YOURSELF.

116. headless lucy spews:

117. Lee spews:

@115
Lucy,
So far, you have posted absolutely zero evidence to support the claim that the United States intentionally infected the people of Africa with a virus that would not be understood by our government for another 20+ years. At worst, they were being irresponsible in how they handled vaccines. That’s absolutely not the same thing. Not to mention that the immunization programs themselves were meant to help people in Africa and that Dr. Koprowski has repeatedly been able to defend his work.

The Wikipedia page here has more information.

119. GBS spews:

Headless Lucy @ 111:

While it’s true I said Puddybud had “some cream in his coffee” that’s for me to say. Unless, of course, you do what I did and go meet the man and shake his hand – or whatever you two wind up doing **ding-ding**.

120. headless lucy spews:

Lee: Read #108 again. Keep reading it ’til it sinks in that you are either being deliberately obtuse, or you really are as thickwitted as you seem.

Testing out a dangerous substance on an unwitting and innocent population is what I am alleging — not some ‘Dr. Evil’ scheme where they cooked up the disease and then foisted it on the inncents.

What the fuck is the difference, Lee, if they test a dangerous substance that they know to be dangerous over cooking up a poison and then dispensing it?

IT IS THE SAME THING!!!

121. headless lucy spews:

…and, Lee, my source DOES support what I am actually saying — not your revised edition. I am really getting frustrated with you.

Why do you persist in this fools game of yours. I proved you wrong. Admit it and move on with your life.

122. GBS spews:

PacMan:

From my prespective, we’ve already entered the post-racial era this primary season. Whether Barak gets elected or not, which he will though, we’ve proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that anyone, regardless of race or gender, can have a legitmate shot at being the president.

When Barak wins, it will be undeniable that we’ve transcended many fears – racisim, sexism, even electing someone with a muslim name while engaged in an idealogical war with Islam.

There is no sign that says “Hey, it’s 2008 we are no longer a racist nation.” It will take more time to reach that point. But after 232 years America has finally taken it’s 3rd step towards a post racial era.

The first being the abolishment of slavery and the 2nd by enacting Civil Rights Act of 1965.

123. headless lucy spews:

Referencing Wikipedia now, Lee. You are moving up the food chain. Koprowski has repeatedly defended himself and repeatedly been refuted by reputable scholars.

Why do you think the controversy still exists — even to the contrary notwithstanding the definitive material you produced from ‘snopes.’

124. headless lucy spews:

Let’s get down to the reality of it, Lee. Wright is embarrassing your candidate because the ‘independents’ (people too wishy-washy to make up their minds) are being scared by the militant black preacher who says ‘crazy’ things.

You don’t give a rat’s ass about what happened to the Africans.

125. headless lucy spews:

GBS: For all I know, you are just another sock puppet. Don’t tell me what I have a right to say and think OR what you think I need to do to earn that right.

126. Lee spews:

@123
Referencing Wikipedia now, Lee. You are moving up the food chain. Koprowski has repeatedly defended himself and repeatedly been refuted by reputable scholars.

No he hasn’t. You are as nutty as the 9/11 Truth people who seem to think that all you have to do is conceive of a plot and it becomes valid. There is no proof anywhere that Koprowski had any malicious intent. All of the things you’ve been posting have been thoroughly and repeatedly discredited.

Why do you think the controversy still exists — even to the contrary notwithstanding the definitive material you produced from ’snopes.’

Because people want to believe it. It fulfills a desire to see the U.S. as the bad guy and as a racist force. The Wikipedia page cites 5 separate sources which debunk the accusation you made in comment #17. And the only thing you can provide is a document filled with speculations and no proof. C’mon, Lucy, get a grip.

127. headless lucy spews:

Lee. It’s not a plot. It was business as usual in the 1950′ and 60′s. Read the qoute again. You are still perseverating about plots.

I’m not saying it was a plot or a scheme. I’m saying that it was business as usual back then. To deny it now by labeling people who bring the whole thing up again as being crazy is some kind of 1984 brainwashing technique that you have succumbed to..(That’s a joke, Lee. It’s merely a hyperbolic jape.)

But it is disturbing that you keep repeating the same falsehood over and over — dismissing me as a conspiracy freak. By the way, why are there so many laws against criminal conspiracies if they are something that never happens?

Are you saying that the CIA has never conspired to work on the dark side and pull the wool over our eyes?

To conspire?

128. PacMan - the best game in town spews:

GBS @ 122
I agree with your analysis. We have made significant strides in approaching the post-racial era. Some might say that whites are voting for Barack out of past guilt while others say blacks are voting simply because he’s black. I take issue with both assumptions as a total representation for why people are voting as these assumptions offend the intelligence of each respective group.

I believe school desegregation back in the seventies helped usher in this era as black and white students, unlike their parents or grandparents before them, received a golden opportunity to grown and learn from one another. In so doing they realized that they had more in common than previously thought.

As a result, this generation is more character driven than race conscious. Sure, there are those who still hold strongly to racial stereotypes but the majority of Americans are more concerned about the bottom line. I believe this is the same reason Hillary has been successful.

129. headless lucy spews:

Dismissing people as conspiracy theorists is merely a rhetorical device that you are using. It in no way refutes the fact that the polio virus was dangerous, the U.S. knew it was dangerous, and sent it over to Africa anyway.

I’m sorry if this fact hurts Barack Obama’s chance of being president. It’s hard being like the ‘great communicator’ when the communication you want to do won’t fit on a bumper sticker. Barack Obama turning his back on Rev. Wright makes him appear to be a weak, unprincipled turncoat.

130. headless lucy spews:

It makes him less electable. What if his promise of better health care for all Americans turns out not to be politically expedient? Will the American people get the same treatment as Rev. Wright is getting from Obama?

131. Lee spews:

@127
Since you seem to be missing my point, I’ll try to make it as concise as possible. In comment #17, you wrote:

One of the ways AIDS was spread throughout Africa was with free polio vaccines that came from the U.S.

This is not true. Are you still going to argue that, or are you finally going to back off on that point? That’s what this is about.

132. headless lucy spews:

You Cherry Picked that statement. That is most decidedly NOT what this is all about. You think you are on firm ground, but you are not.

As much confidence as you have in snopes.com and wikipedia, I’ll go back in my notes and get you my source, and show you that you are in error — which you will deny..

133. headless lucy spews:

here

134. GBS spews:

Headless Lucy:

A) I’m not your enemy.
B) I’m not sock puppet.
C) Maybe we’re just from two different schools of thought, but for me, when you pop off to someone, like Puddybud, be original and don’t hide behind a screen or a skirt. Say it to the man’s face.

135. GBS spews:

PacMan,

I agree. We’re just entering the post-racial era. Which means there will still be many people who are stuck in the past.

The battle is won on person at a time. It’s a very S-L-O-W process, but it is ever moving in the right direction albeit not fast enough for many people.

Yack at ya later.

136. headless lucy spews:

re 135: You’ve both restated the ‘post racial era’ buzz-phrase about 10 times each. Congratulations to the both of you for your arrival at the top of the Mountain.

Say hi! to Abraham, Martin, Bobby, and John for me, will ya?

137. headless lucy spews:

re 134: Why don’t I say it to your face first. You are talking about me ‘popping off’ to Puddybud?

Why is it you only show upat convenient times to back up the righty trolls.

Unbelieveable.

138. PacMan - the best game in town spews:

136: Abraham, Martin, Bobby, and John said hello!

139. GBS spews:

@ 137:

I said I’m not your enemy.

Be smart enough to understand that. And just because I check you down doesn’t mean I’m a troll, it means don’t run your mouth using my words. Get your own.

140. GBS spews:

I’m glad to be at the top of this mountain. I can’t wait for the rest of you to join us.

The view is nice from up here because I can see “the promised land” and it looks like . . . America. The America our Forefathers envisioned.

141. PacMan - the best game in town spews:

Forget about Rev Wright –

What will the next president do about China’s effort to destabilize the American economy? It is widely assumed that America is borrowing money from China to support our economy and to pay for the American wars. The reality is that China is buying our debt which devalues its own currency thereby creating artificial trade deficits which grows and grows.

The continuation of this trade deficit growth will eventually create an unsustainable condition where trillions of dollars of the GDP are transferred to other countries which will eventually result in a lowering of the American standard of living while increasing personal debt. It will also lead to slower wage growth and a significant increase in government debt. This ‘debt buyout’ strategy is allowing China’s currency to fall to increase the amount of investments in China while at the same time making its exports cheap to America.

So far US political leaders including the President, has either little power or little interest is stopping the trend. They’ve called on other governments to intervene to stop China from fixing its currency against the dollar to no avail. China’s policy of maintaining a weak currency against the dollar promotes exports and discourages imports. For decades, the US has been the world economy’s main source for economic growth. This year, China has claimed that status as U.S. growth has been faltering because of the deep housing slump and mortgage crisis. The credit woes have dampened growth in Europe and Japan, but have had little impact on China, where growth is running close to 12 percent this year amid big booms in the country’s housing and stock markets.

China’s currency distortion has masked the role China is playing in world growth. When measured in dollars China’s economic output is still around a third of the US. But when measured under the monetary guidelines created by the International Monetary Fund designed to screen out currency distortions, China’s economy has jumped from $4 trillion in 2000 to over $12 trillion in 2008 – the same as the US. To maintain this currency distortions China has encouraged America to assemble our goods using cheap labor in China and then re-exporting those products back to the US and other developed countries. This export-driven growth has led to dramatic trade surpluses with the US enabling China to build masses of foreign-exchange reserves totaling $1 trillion dollars and more.

Meanwhile, back at the dude ranch in Washington, the US has exported billions of dollars to foreign government to buy friends in support of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, further depleting what little reserves we have left and leaving the problem to the next generation. While all this is going on US economic growth is being weighed down by our soaring deficits with China which is causing the dollar to reach new lows against other currencies allowed to float freely against the dollar such as the Euro, Canadian dollar, and the British pound. This currency turmoil creates a situation where American employers cannot compete against China and as a result US employers are either forced out of business, or are forced to give up their patriotism to the U.S. and hire foreign workers in China. It is difficult to compete against countries that artificially devalue their currencies to decrease the prices of their products in Western nations. Maybe, just maybe we need to enforce (I Know this is a bad word but I am going to write it) tariffs — on China. There, I wrote it! After all, the US government is responsible for the welfare of its people. If the US continues to allow China to undervalue its goods they will continue to control our markets and the markets of other countries. Under this situation any prudent government would impose tariffs on those goods.

Again, forget about Rev Wright. We need to focus on the issues because Americans need to vote people in who are genuinely concerned about the welfare and security of the country!

Maybe we should include Wu Xiaoling as a write in candidate. Mr Wu is the deputy governor of the People’s Bank of China. While America still thinks the way to world dominance is through military might Mr Wu and others sees it differently. Control the economy and you control the people. Scary isn’t it.

142. GBS spews:

PacMan:

No shit!?!?

Welcome to the understanding of what “cheap labor conservative” means.

Unions, stong unions, keeps America’s economy healthy. You can connect the dots for yourself.

This “super highway” coming out of Mexico pushed by Bush and the Republicans will really hurt more working class Ameircan families in the long run.

One of the reasons I’m agains the “stimulus package” offered by Bush is that a huge hunk of that money will be transferred to CHINA.

Think about that.

143. PacMan - the best game in town spews:

142: It’s not a pretty picture.

144. headless lucy spews:

re 139: You would be well advised to follow your own advice about “popping off”. You hide behind three letters and make your pronunciamentos in the safety of anonymity.

You’ve told me that I must meet with Puddybud before commenting on his drivel. You’ve told me that I can’t quote you about anything — even though that’s what you said.

You are trying to come across as one who has the courage to meet a person face to face — so, my offer still stands. If you won’t agree to meet with me, I am correct in calling bullshit on you. The Puddybud, PacMan, GBS triangle of beating down on a commenter is just too convenient for me to believe you three are not in cahoots.

So, meet with me. Bring your friends, if you like. I care not, because I know you will not show.

145. GBS spews:

Where at, Headless lucy?

146. headless lucy spews:

You say where. I’ll say when.

147. Marvin Stamn spews:

146. headless lucy spews:
You say where. I’ll say when.

  
Los Angeles

Like you said,

If you won’t agree to meet with me, I am correct in calling bullshit on you.

  
I’m calling bullshit on your racist ass.

148. headless lucy spews:

re 147: Get some sleep, Marvin. You’re too old for this.

149. Marvin Stamn spews:

148. headless lucy spews:
re 147: Get some sleep, Marvin. You’re too old for this

  
To quote you…
If you won’t agree to meet with me, I am correct in calling bullshit on you.
  
When will I be seeing you?
Oh shit, I forgot. There are black people down here in los angeles. Oh well, never mind. I know how you are around blacks.