You’ve got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don’t mess with Mister In-BetweenYou’ve got to spread joy up to the maximum
Bring gloom down to the minimum
Have faith or pandemonium
Liable to walk upon the scene
That what they’re singing over at (un)Sound Politics, where the unsound folk are tinkering with their reality distortion field in a desperate attempt to spin the GOP’s embarrassing performance in Tuesday’s election into something, um… less embarrassing.
Timothy Goddard claims he found a pony in the shitpile, pointing to the Republican wins on the Snohomish County Charter Review Commission:
Even so, the GOP-endorsed candidates did quite well, especially when compared to the Democrat-endorsed ones. Six Republican-endorsed candidates are taking commissioner spots, compared to only three Democrat-endorsed ones. … This gives Republicans 40% of the commission, to 20% Democrats and 40% people not endorsed by either party. Not too shabby.
Uh-huh.
Meanwhile, Matt Rosenberg sees good omens in the election of Jim Nobles, “an out-of-the closet Republican” to the now-defunct Seattle Popular Monorail Board, and the election of “independent and Dino Rossi supporter Jack Creighton” and “former City of Seattle Treasurer and fiscal conservative Lloyd Hara” to the Port of Seattle Commission.
Um, Matt… Tim… these are all nonpartisan offices. Hmm. I wonder why the races Republicans do best in are those in which the voters don’t get to see the candidates’ party affiliation?
Perhaps the answer lies in our good friend Stefan’s own cockeyed optimism. He attempts to put Ron Sims 14 point victory “in context”, producing a table of King County election results, and concluding that…
Only a handful of Democrats have ever done worse than Sims, and an even smaller handful of Republicans have ever done better than Irons.
So… um… I guess this was a moral victory for David Irons and the Republicans, huh? I’m sure that should provide them comfort during the next four years of the Sims administration. I for one, am comforted by the fact that Republicans like Stefan think it’s a victory when their candidate polls over 40 percent.
But if you really want to know why Republicans do so sucky in King County, you need to read further. According to Stefan:
The only Republican who has actually even won King County in recent years is Norman Maleng. And partisan label aside, Maleng is such a reliable water boy for the Democrat-dominated machine that the Ds didn’t even bother to oppose him the last time he ran.
Yes, the Republicans should have been able to do better this year. A constructive post mortem to propose ideas for improving the game should commence. But given the hard core leftist base in Seattle, the most realistic options for Republicans who care about county government —
a) join the machine ala Maleng (and why bother, unless all you aspire to is a job in county government)
b) resign oneself to permanent minority status
c) work to divide King County into a Seattle County and a suburban/rural county.
That’s right, the only Republican Stefan bothers dissing is the only one during the last 12 years to garner more than fifty percent of the countywide vote… Norm Maleng. And you wonder why the majority of KC voters think the GOP is out of touch with their values?
Of course there is another option one might add to Stefan’s “constructive post mortem” and that might be to run candidates who listen to voters and who respond to their needs and concerns. But nah… that would involve a introspection, and that’s a way too scary place for somebody like Stefan to go.
Better just accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative….
up here in Snohomish County, we refer to those candidates you describe as “sheeple”, thats the old “Dan Evans” republicrats you guys used to get all the time, there still around, but we have almost run all of them off. The new version isn’t quite so timid, don’t carry water so well, don’t bow to the queen, and can’t seem to say “Massa” at the bipartisan meeting, with the right inflection. Next.
you never learn do you? one would think after that rather stinging rebuke by the stranger to you that you would put your “i-hate-sharkansky-cause-his-house-is bigger-than-mine” machine into reverse. but, nooooooo, you just have to keep going. the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing but expect a different outcome.
Stefan is right.
Maleng is a tool of the dems, so too is Sam Reed.
Gorton was real GOP, so too Rick White. Jennifer Dunn i guess GOP, but she too is gone.
County is just too far left overall to permit a conservative…
How’s your arm, Goldy? You’ve been patting yourself on the back for two days in a row now. Must be wearing out your shoulder joints.
Goldy,
Please remind Stefan and Matt that refucklicans lose in King County on morals issues–the GOP has none. Maybe they should try looking for some.
As far as Lloyde Hara goes, he came before the 33rd Dems so many times to speak that I thought he was a member. It will be interesting to see if he can attain his goal to have all Commission meetings held out in the public.
Stefan doesn’t bother to point out that in this election, the liberal vote was split between Sims and Green Party candidate Gentry Lange. In 2001 it was the conservative vote that was split between Sants Contreras and Libertarian David Fries.
In 2005 Sims and Lange picked up 59% of the vote compared to Irons’ 41%.
In 2001 it was 61% for Sims alone and 39% for Contreras and Fries.
Not really that much of a change, especially when you consider that Irons was much better known over the entire county than Contreras.
Fiscal conservative … isn’t that an important part of the message of one Howard Dean? Surely it has no association with today’s national GOP.
Lloyd Hara is without question, unswervingly, a Democrat. Not necessarily the sort of Democrat I would prefer, but he remains a proud member of the party. As is the man he bested for Position 3 of the Port Commission, Rich Berkowitz.
#4: Not necessarily what I think Goldy is doing with his “arm”. Reading the obsession with Stephan and his constant nameing of himself as the great bloghero…other things come to mind :-)
Seadog @ 8,
What…typing?
In a private telephone conversation with friends, Samuel Alito was over heard saying that once he is on the bench ” it will be back to the ole falling down the stairs trick” and he then stated that “coat hanger stocks may see an increase.”
These cryptic messages continue to baffle liberals
righton @ 3
See, every time you conservatives whine you make our point for us.
Yes, King County is way too left to ever permit a conservative to run the county. We agree. There are way, more liberals living in King County than conservatives, we agree.
It’s also the county with all the money, wealth and power. Why is that? Why do the wealtheir counties, and states for that matter, tend to be blue?
Get a grip, grow up, and face reality: conservatism doesn’t work to build real wealth. And, please no one start with the wealth redistribution BS, like MTR tends to do. Realize that in the last 10 years 1 trillioin dollars have flowed from blue states to the red states via the federal government.
Face it, Billy Bob in his Git-R0-Done Ford pick up truck in states like Kentucky, Tennesse, Alabama et al ain’t footin’ the bill for the rest of us, as your talking points have brainwashed you into believing.
Give Stefan et. al. a break.
They are not only the minority view…they are the extreme minority view. Alll they can do is find glimmers of partial hope.
They are so out of touch with everything that people want….locally, statewide and nationally, that they have to invent crazy schemes to pretend they are somehow still relevant.
They would be better served devising ways to help Rove/Libby/Bush/Cheney/Delay/Frist etc. out of their misery…at least doing so might end up with a no-bid government contract for, say, Soundpolitics.com.
GOP winning in King County
So Stef says join Maleng, become apatheic, or split the county?
So, Stef thinks the only way he can win is if he can change the rules? What a dork. Maybe you guys should pick candidates who don’t beat their mothers (Irons lost big among women voters)
BillFinkbienerForExecutive.com , I’ll goes halfsies on the web costs fellas.
Those Snohomish Charter Review numbers are laughable. R’s won 40% of the seats, but the other 60% are held by progressives. I know most of these people; this charter review commission will be distinctly progressive. And, for the record, it will be chaired by Democrat Mike Cooper because he got more votes than anyone else.
If this is the Republican victory blanket, it’s pretty wet.
King County could very well elect a Republican executive (and has), just not a conservative.
Conservatives might as well put on their “happy face” for he world to see and resign themselves to not being in power locally or nationally this time next year. The good thing for most conservatives is that they know how to play second fiddle in congress, after all, that’s what they were relegated to for 40 years. Their run at the top lasted a good 12 years and it’ll be at LEAST 40 years before they see a majority in congress again.
Did you enjoy your time in the sun, ChristmasGhost? Because at age 49 you’re probably gonna be dead before you see conservatives in a majority again.
righton @ 3: Skeletor, I mean Gorton was the best u could come up with to represent good GOPer’s? That man had all the compassion of a hyena (with my apologies to hyena’s everywhere). And, now he’s on the Board of Directors of the Discovery Institute (those wonderful folks who are trying to pass Intelligent Design of as real science). Yeah, that’s what the GOP’s all about: keep the masses ignorant and they are easier to control. Next?
GBS (fun to ponder what the G before the BS stands for…)
you said some goofy things
It’s also the county with all the money, wealth and power. Why is that? Why do the wealtheir counties, and states for that matter, tend to be blue?
Get a grip, grow up, and face reality: conservatism doesn’t work to build real wealth. And, please no one start with the wealth redistribution BS, like MTR tends to do. Realize that in the last 10 years 1 trillioin dollars have flowed from blue states to the red states via the federal government.
Face it, Billy Bob in his Git-R0-Done Ford pick up truck in states like Kentucky, Tennesse, Alabama et al ain’t footin’ the bill for the rest of us, as your talking points have brainwashed you into believing.
********
You really wanna tie wealth to voting Democrat….you mean 100 years of voting Dem has made East St. Louis rich, or voting GOP has impoverished Medina and Greenwich and San Marino and Palm Beach? You might be confusing dot com, queen anne yuppies and SF dwellers with weatlh…..yawn. ever been to Midland, or Jackson, or Aspen, or Hailey?
What real wealth does gov’t ownership, control, leadership build? I mean we should see real wealth then in fully Dem districts, right? West Virginia should be swimming in Volvos and LL Bean jackets.
I’m not familiar with your ficitoinal $100 trillion; you mean Dems have tranferred more wealth to republicans than vice versa?
Ha, laughing my tail off.
I won’t deny the rich get richer and in many ways off the backs of the poor, but don’t concoct some cockemamie socialist story of wealth coming from Demo policies….
Lets model say the Swiss, or Taiwanese. Low marginal tax rates, productive labor force, limited government ownership, individual responsibility. Spare me the Sims/Gregoire anti succss packages.
Larry,
The task was a GOP locally that was real GOP, not necessarily a warm and fuzzy grandmother.
Too bad he photographs like the grim reaper. A good guy, still running daily at 78, etc.
AZ at 13;
you mentioned 60/40 split, but never said how many seat by the liberals. I think you substituted lib talking word #1 “progressive” into your sentence…
interesting that even when goldy “wins” he still loses…..
goldy……you were that kid in the back of the class yelling look at me look at me….weren’t you?
so all this election proves is that dean logan is still playing with numbers and that seattle contols the state[duh] and that seattle is just chock-a-block full of nuts.
it will come back to bite you in a couple of years……
oh…..and now what are you going to talk about? you’ve been beating a non story for weeks now. and now that’s even gone. so what now????? didn’t look that far ahead, hmmmmm?
Look republicans should not feel so bad.
They have control of most of the counties in the state. Goldy isn’t mad that he can’t get his candidates elected in Franklin or Yakima County. Most of the state is red. At least in land mass. Let the democrats have a few blue counties. Big deal.
oh goldy….filtering like CRAZY now???? and here i thought you were all for freedom of the press, free speech and all that “nonsense”………….
Goldy is on the TV box in about a minute
it’s startin’
what is the problem with the above christmasghost? is he for real? does he/it live in wasnhington? or in haight ashbury? talk about a neonut bag of wind………
hooray for Goldy!
christmasghost @ 22
‘oh goldy….filtering like CRAZY now???? and here i thought you were all for freedom of the press, free speech and all that “nonsense”‘
Quit acting like a stupid cunt. The filter is automated (i.e. Goldy doesn’t do anything to it)–it works the way it does all the time.
well dj lead by example….show us “ignorant putz”, clear up any questions the rest of us might have.
dj @27
Quit acting like a stupid cunt.
Hey, I couldn’t care less how low you go in politics, but doin’ the “c” word? Man, you’s ballsey…
thanks dj, I guess your ‘post’ answered me about who/what the christmasghost is/was.
@10
You’ll find out how baffled liberals are when we filibuster Alito. Can the GOP break a Dem filibuster? Sure. Will they? Sure. Will Democrats get even when we’re back in power?
Count on it.
FireSideChat @30
It did, didn’t it…
Oops, meant @31
Goldy must be letting the filter..
Comment on 21
Land doesn’t vote. People vote, and eastern Washington counties have only a fifth of the state’s people — and the majority of of those live in four urban areas. King, Pierce, and Snohomish counties have over half the state’s population. King County, alone, has a third of the state’s voters. King County will always dominate Washington politics, simply because that’s where the voters are.
Stefan was born two generations too late. He would have made a great propagandist for the Belgian Army, circa 1914. “We stopped the Germans IN THEIR TRACKS!!! for … um … thirty seconds ….” The bells toll for thee, Stefan.
Marks @ 31
“Hey, I couldn’t care less how low you go in politics, but doin’ the “c” word? Man, you’s ballsey… “
I’m working through Carlin’s 7 dirty words…one per day. :-) :-)
Thomas @ 30 (or so)
‘well dj lead by example….show us “ignorant putz”‘
Watch carefully:
IGNORANT PUTZ
See that?
“clear up any questions the rest of us might have. “
You got questions? Go to Radio Shack. Thayz gots answers.
Goldy great post!
You may amuse yourself with this foul language laced partisanship Mr Goldstein, but you do my beloved Democratic Party a grave disservice. You besmirch all the rest of us with your sleazy tactics that one usually associates with the other side. You are a divider of people who should be coming together to solve problems, but you clearly are more interested in garnering cheap publicity to further your own media career than safeguarding the principles that made this party great.
If you are what Democrats have come to be known as today, I am ashamed to call myself a Democrat.
Speaking of accentuating the negative, Pat Robertson (let’s-kill-Venezuela’s-leader) threatened a Pennsylvania city for voting “intelligent design” advocates off their school board:
“VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. (AP) — Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson warned residents of a rural Pennsylvania town Thursday that disaster may strike there because they ‘voted God out of your city’ by ousting school board members who favored teaching intelligent design.
“All eight Dover, Pa., school board members up for re-election were defeated Tuesday after trying to introduce ‘intelligent design’ – the belief that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power – as an alternative to the theory of evolution.
“‘I’d like to say to the good citizens of Dover: If there is a disaster in your area, don’t turn to God. You just rejected him from your city,’ Robertson said on the Christian Broadcasting Network’s ‘700 Club.'”
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s.....TION?SITE= KING&TEMPLATE=USHEADS.html&SECTION=HOME
Let’s hear it for the voters of Dover, PA:
HIP-HIP-HOORAY!
HIP-HIP-HOORAY!
HIP-HIP-HOORAY!
Can you believe that? The voters of Dover, PA tossed ALL EIGHT christiantalibans off their school board. Talk about cleaning house! The teachers in Dover can take off their burkhas now.
@42
Is that you, ProudASS?
You repukes sure do try to fight hard when cornered. this has been some of the best reading next to the sniveling you cowards dished after your beloved rossi got screwed…i mean served. hell ya cant even keep decent dialog on your own rightie site! sad…real sad
between this posturing from the bloody and brusied right and the bullshit your CLOWN pat robertson is spewing, is it REALLY any wonder that the sound you are hearing is your own demise.
@42 has to be a Republican poseur. A real Democrat would never worry more about bad language while ignoring a president and political party who:
1. Start a war on false pretenses,
2. Torture people,
3. Blow a CIA agent’s cover for political revenge,
4. Create record deficits,
5. Preside over systematic looting of the economy,
6. Ravage the environment,
7. Appoint incompetents to run federal agencies,
8. etc. ad naus.
THOMAS is not THOMAS TRAINWINDER
Pat Robertson….how can *anyone* listen to him? He laughs *** all the way to the $$$$ bank ***
42. DemocratEmbarrasedByGoldstein
A republican troll — no doubt about it. (Who do you think you’re fooling?)
@ 42 That is FUNNY!!!
And not at all convincing.
RR @ 47 not only that but we now know (from Trent Lott no less) that it was a Republican Senator that released the information about the CIA’s secret Gulogs.
Now while I am glad to have the CIA called to task for such abhornet behaviour, but it is clear that you simply cannot trust a Repuglican with any secret information. They just dig ratting out America.
Roger Rabbit is going to get trapped, castrated, and relocated to Redmond:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ts11m.html
My only question is, Goldy, what is with your infatuation with Stephan?
and after we got the ‘scoop’ on Pat Robertson and his talibaptists the ABC/Ipsos poll just released stated:
WASHINGTON – Most Americans say they aren’t impressed by the ethics and honesty of the Bush administration, already under scrutiny for its justifications for an unpopular war in Iraq and its role in the leak of a covert CIA officer’s identity
Almost six in 10 — 57 percent — said they do not think the Bush administration has high ethical standards and the same portion says President Bush is not honest, an AP-Ipsos poll found. Just over four in 10 say the administration has high ethical standards and that Bush is honest. Whites, Southerners and evangelicals were most likely to believe Bush is honest.
For the rest of the story go to:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....sh_ap_poll
@53
SHRIEEEEEK!!!!! Nazis!!! Bunny-haters!!! Cruelty to cute fluffly domesticated animals!!! Call 9-1-1!!! Call the fire department!!! Call the Sierra Club!!!! How can anyone even THINK about cutting off Roger Rabbit’s balls??? :-O
@54
My only question is, why are you wingnuts such unpatriotic America-hating whores?
@53 (continued)
They have to catch me first …
Right on Goldy!
King County will never elect the fundy-based extremism that dominates GOP leadership in King County and the state. If the GOP were truley the party of Lincoln, we’d all be better off: on the environment, civil right for all people and more progressive and equitable taxes.
Norm Maleng is no water boy for anyone. The guy is a rock solid Republican. GOP leadership in this state just doesn’t know it because Norm doesn’t include extreme old time religion, screw the environment, support the gun lobby and screw the gay people anywhere on his resume.
Don’t look to the state senate for any of the GOP any time soon unless they use this next session to better protect our environment and all the people – including the gay people, from discrimination.
Hey I have an idea — let’s live trap, castrate, and relocate wingnuts to the Republican Troll Sanctuary. This will improve Washington’s environment while humanely providing a safe place for the trolls to peacefully live out their wretched, hateful, self-centered lives. :D
They’ll probably eat each other — but hey, no problem — out of sight, out of mind. A Devil’s Island for trolls, know what I mean? (wink wink)
Okay, Goldy….
You’ve used up your gloating time.
How about getting to some subjects now?
righton @19: Ah, Republican debating tactics: Change or confuse the subjec to avoid the point. When was the last time Gorton was a “local” (i.e. King County or even just Western Wash) GOP figure? Pre 1968 or so? (1969-1981 STATE attorney general, 1981-1987 US Senator). To top it off, the only reason Gorton was able to play in state politics was that he was adept at mobilizing the faithful in NON-urban areas, which kind of makes him an anti-local, doesn’t it?
And you completely ignored my point, that the guy just doesn’t look like the Grim Reaper, he got the same amount of compassion. And as such, it’s ironic that you held him up as a “real” GOP. Kind of makes my point for me. GOP is the party of “I’ll screw anyone for my ideology, you are on your own, you peons exist so I can pay someone min wage to pull the weeds out of my lawn, rich white people are the Massa’s, science isn’t good unless it supports the party line, etc”
The far right wacky fringe of the Republican Party, represented in our locale by the backward-looking ideologues at uSP, will never win in this state because they are not very sophisticated in their arguments. They say whatever they have to to “win” an argument. That doesn’t fly anymore. And your shrillness is not helping you either
But the whole world saw the weakness and ineffectiveness of these neo-cons during Katrina. Do you think that the American voter can not make the connection between that and our weak and ineffective leadership in Iraq?
To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld: You have to continue to try even though your leaders are self-obsessed, half-smart, wingnut assholes.
Larry,
Why is compassion important in a Senator? “I feel your pain”…that’s what you want?
I disagree, compassion is nice, but so too is intelligence, wisdom, judgement.
You rample about massa, etc..
righton @ 64: From the Bible (You GOPer’s like the Bible right?) 1 Corinthians 13
“And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.” [In more modern versions, “charity” is now “love”, but in both cases I think the definition intended is as shown below.]
From Dictionary.com:
Charity: 4)Benevolence or generosity toward others or toward humanity. 5)Indulgence or forbearance in judging others. See Synonyms at mercy.
I think you’ve a) got your priorities wrong and b) tied yorself into a logical knot. As to the latter, you say Gorton is a real Republican, Republicans are generally supporters of Christian values, Gorton works for the Discovery Institute, a Christian propoganda mouthpiece, yet you say that intelligence, wisdom and judgement are more important than compassion. Not according to the sacred book. And I would say that intelligence, wisdom and judgment without compassion are worse than useless. If you don’t have compassion, you’d become a dark, self serving, automaton — oh, that’s right u r already a Republican.
Side note: This verse also contains my favorite line ever in the bible: ” For now we see through a glass, darkly” Pure poetry, that. Apologies for all this new testament stuff goldy.
larry, pearls before swine?
sigh. Story of my life.
The Seattle Times story even refers to Roger Rabbit:
“Some rabbits carry parasites and diseases, and there also is anecdotal evidence that they have begun moving into surrounding neighborhoods, said Barb DeCaro, resource-conservation coordinator for the parks department.”
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ts11m.html
Goldy—-
EXACTLY the spin I expected from you CLOWNS.
Current SOS numbers show:
STATEWIDE(incl KingCo)===== I-912 is defeated by +91,835
KINGCO ===== I-912 is defeated by +110,325
Other Counties (combined)== I-912 PASSES by +18,490
Gregoire and the MSM claim STATEWIDE SUPPORT????????
Bullshit!!
Plus there was an incredible amount of Republican Business interest support on defeating I-912 out of desperation to do SOMETHING! These folks will NEVER vote for Gregoire in 2008. NEVER!!! And when the folks STATEWIDE (incl KingCo) see that nothing improves the next 3 years….that this is a bait-and-switch list of projects…..and it is clear that this 9-1/2 cents was a drop in the bucket and they want much, much more……GREGOIRE WILL PLUMMET!!!!!!!!!!!
The anti-912 folks & Gregoire OVERPROMISED!!!! And will be held accountable in 2008.
wow, seriously delusional.
Gregoire DISAPPEARED on I-912 until the $3 million to defeat it worked it’s magic. What leadership specifically are you talking about??? The fear-mongering regarding the AWV which won’t start construction until 2009???? And then take 7-8 years????
I’ll bet it doesn’t start until 2011….the LEFTIST PINHEADS will spend years and billions arguing about the ridiculous TUNNEL of LOVE….that pads the pockets of Seattle’s elite developers like Paul Allen.
Watch the bait-and-switch….it’s coming.
Start the projects….the HUGE tax increases to finish them.
The only thing is, the next round of HUGE tax increases will be defeated. Then Gregoire will have half-finished projects to explain. It will be clear by November 2008 that Gregoire massively overpromised and mislead voters. She will be defeated by Rossi or McKenna.
@65
“compassion is nice, but so too is intelligence, wisdom, judgement.”
or … if you’re a Republican … inheriting a shitload of money is sufficient even if you don’t have any of the other qualities. (Gorton’s Seafood; Katherine Harris; etc.)
@69
Rabbits attract parasites, that’s for sure:
Mr. Cynical
Righton
Prr
Mark the Redneck, and the various other Marks
to mention a few
RR above, and puddybutts, pbj, xmasgoats, chardsofstalewine, yearight, janet s, zipforbrains,
righton @ 18:
If you think the Taiwanese model is good, please accept my offer to help you move.
I can get you hooked up with an apartment in Taipei, give you basic Mandarin lessons, and possibly peddle your ass as an English teacher given your lack of other marketable skills besides running your mouth.
Stock up on face masks. The air is a bit chewy down in the Taipei basin, and be sure to boil the water so it doesn’t make you sick. If you go down South, just buy your water in bottles. The stuff from the tap in Kaohsiung has so many pollutants in it that no quantity of filtering or boiling will make it OK.
If you don’t work under the table, you’ll be kicking in about $70 to the single-payer healthcare system. Hope you don’t resent it too much.
wow…….dj…..the “c” word? the feminists must LOVE you. remember hillary is a “c” word too. so if you are a woman that is what you are? thanks for clearing that up for me…….
and this is why the democratic party has never held serious power for any length of time….except in washington state[insert backwater here]. you guys can’t be taken seriously. ask a liberal a question and all you will get is a foul mouthed diatribe that says absolutely Z-I-P.
you people are complete jokes……….and yes, i am laughing. keep showing your true colors….the american people really need to see them to remember what you are all about.
why do you think it’s so much fun to needle you?
you do our work for us………the word PUTZ comes to mind….
but just once in awhile do you think, goldy, that you could get someone with an IQ higher than room temperature in a cheap motel room on a cold day to come on here and actually have a real discussion. cause it’s getting really really boring………
re 77: If you checked your wacky, right fringy, talking point spewing blogs lately, you’d realize even they are aware that neo-con incompetence is OUT.
Democratic intelligence , compassion, and CLASSICAL HUMANISTIC IDEALS ( just like the founding fathers! ) is IN!!!
Ezkémo…..and yet another sock puppet chimes in. are you goldy’s index finger or pinky? gawd…….what a laugh.
once again …..ZIP in the actual discussion area……….
Ezkémo @78
You mean like this?
Then Bush, in a desperate ploy, invoked John Kerry’s words when the Senator supported the October 2002 authorization of force. Bush quoted Kerry as saying: “When I vote to give the President of the Untied States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein, it is because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a threat—and a grave threat—to our security.”
That was an embarrassing and indefensible vote and statement by Kerry. But Kerry himself now admits that Bush cooked the intelligence.
“This administration misled a nation into war by cherry-picking intelligence and stretching the truth beyond recognition,” Kerry said after Bush’s speech.
Oh yeah, Bush lied, people died. Thanks, John Kerry, for your
foreskinforesight…I happen to remember the situation back then, but some of you continue to claim Iraq was no threat…Never mind the 14 resolutions which put Saddam in his predicament, and the fact that he was deposed by our troops. Who cares that he was running an ice cream factory under the UN Oil For Food program…
Oh, but that does not matter, since it was apparently illegal according to you. Let’s withdraw and let either Saddam or some other malcontent run Iraq. How fitting for you guys….
Btw-Ezkémo
Democratic intelligence , compassion, and CLASSICAL HUMANISTIC IDEALS ( just like the founding fathers! ) is IN!!!
Um, sounds very similar to “military intelligence”…
Christmasghosgt
“wow…….dj…..the “c” word? the feminists must LOVE you.”
I haven’t noticed either way. BTW: some faction of feminists are trying to “take back” the word “cunt.” The word does have much less offensive origins. It is just puritanical American english speakers who have turned it into “the most offensive world.”
In any case, the wingnuts get to use the word around here, so why shouldn’t I?
E.g. Mark1 refers to Gregoire as a cunt in post 930, comment 63640, and adds “cunt-smell” to Maria Cantwell’s name in post 911, comment 61036.
Chuck refers to either Cindy Sheehan or Jane Fonda (can’t tell which) as a cunt in post 896, comment 58764.
Why are Wingnuts the only ones allowed to use the “most offensive word in the English language?”
“and this is why the democratic party has never held serious power for any length of time….except in washington state[insert backwater here]. you guys can’t be taken seriously.”
Oh??? Since I am not a Democrat, so I find your assertion curious, uninformed and silly.
“ask a liberal a question and all you will get is a foul mouthed diatribe that says absolutely Z-I-P. “
I can see why you think that. It is because you are a fucking moron, and wouldn’t understand with or without what you choose to define as a “foul mouthed diatribe” around the content.
“you people are complete jokes……….and yes, i am laughing.”
The feeling is mutual…….and ditto.
“keep showing your true colors….the american people really need to see them to remember what you are all about.”
blah blah blah…
“…cause it’s getting really really boring………”
Here is an idea….SCRAM. Nobody appreciates you around here anyway…. You are, perhaps, the biggest of the village idiots ’round here. Ciao! Go play with your own lame-ass blog or something.
re 80: The “…Untied States”!!!!!!! They were tied very nicely, thank you , before that idiot Bush was illegally appointed by the Supreme Court. And then cheated their way in 2004 in Florida and Ohio.
jsa at 76; I’ll admit i don’t know taiwan that well, but heck, 50 yrs ago they were dirt poor, overcrowded, threatened by hostile civil war neighbors. Now they are prosperous. Yeah, likely nasty place to live.
Funny you didn’t mention also living the good life in Switzerland?
righton @ 83:
I’ve visited Switzerland, but can’t claim any insight as to how the country works. It seems nice enough — if you’re rich.
I lived in Taiwan for nearly 8 years, speak fluent Mandarin, and understand the country inside out. It’s not a bad place, but I’m also not living there now, so that will tell you something. There are some good things about it (broad, flat middle class, not a lot of visible poverty, good Chinese food, nice folks), a lot of stuff that sucks (terrible pollution, badly managed transportation infrastructure, overconcentration of industry both geographically and sector wise, hostile neighbors across the Strait, a rather beareaucratic and unresponsive government).
There are several things about the Taiwan model that don’t travel well.
One of the biggies is that the tax rates are lower on average than the US, but are highly progressive. Top income tax brackets are up in the 50% range. It’s sort of a joke. If you’re making that much, you have ways to shuffle the money around. In addition, while income tax rates have always been low, there are also a lot of “hidden” taxes that we don’t pay in the US. Some of these have gone away with WTO ascession, but in the bad old days, there were very high tarrifs on imported goods, both to stuff government coffers and to make sure that money that was made in Taiwan, stayed in Taiwan. Likewise, the government imposed various forms of capital controls well into the 90s to keep money in Taiwan invested on the island and to discourage “capital flight” when China did it’s occasional rounds of fire-breathing rhetoric.
The other is that government spending is held down by the fact that there’s no state-sponsored social safety net outside of the single-payer health plan. No unemployment insurance, no social security, no AFDC, etc. This has been possible due to both an incredibly strong family dynamic and a long period of sustained economic growth. Chinese parents let wayward kids stay with them until they “grow up” in their 30s or even much later. Adult Chinese kids live with elderly parents as a matter of course. I find this admirable, but the United States does not have this sort of family structure, and you’re not going to legislate our glorious individualistic Protestant heritage away with tax breaks.
Likewise, as Taiwan starts to “hollow out” industrially, and the factory jobs that kept the less skilled members of society fully employed drift off to Mainland China, you’re seeing the contract that made all this possible (i.e 40 years of near-zero unemployment) start to break up.
righton @ 83 (continued):
The first part of my message is being held, but when it gets loose, you can read it.
As a semi-independent continuation, Taiwan is not the capitalist wet dream a lot of people suppose it is. During the years of rapid growth, large sectors of industry (telecoms, steel, sugar, banking, petroleum, even semiconductors) were dominated or completely monopolized by state-owned companies. The rationale being that these sectors were too important to developing the country to be left to the vagaries of the market and private ownership. WTO ascession has privatized most of them. This means that they’re only 50% owned by the state, and my brother-in-law, an engineer for China Petroleum, says that min sheng (public good), not “market forces” are one of the main controlling factors beind the price of gasoline and petroleum products.
If I wanted to (I don’t), I could point out that four of the top 10 most competitive countries in the world are the Nordic countries. Finland tops the list. Ergo, hard-core soc-yi-alism is obviously the path to wealth and prosperity.
jsa; nordic most competitive? Maybe wealthy, but not “most competitive”
I did not say wealthiest, I said most competetive.
http://www.weforum.org/site/ho.....nt/Global+ Competitiveness+Programme%5CGlobal+Competitiveness+Report
DJ @81………..SCRAM, huh?
okay……..bye.
jsa; owe you stuff
too much soccer today. I got into this disputing the notion voting dem makes americans rich, and used taiwan, swtiz as examples of one aspect, low marginal tax rates, where right wing policies seem to work
your url noted US at #2, switz, taiwan up high.
Proving the link is hard i’ll admit. Lots of phd’s out studying link between taxation, gov’t policies, and prosperity.
I owe good stuff back. I know Switz a lot better than Taiwan. I will note that for Taiwan
a) they used to be starving, dirt poor; no longer
b) they likely, like all other asians, live in conditions none of us would like (crowded, noisy, etc)
Switz on the other hand is both prosperous and nice…..pretty lucky folks…
Ezkémo @82: Either U R dense like concrete or in your little self-imposed intellectual prison of your small mind you just miss the facts. This is the third time I will have edumicated you on Al Gore in 2000 and John Kerry in 2004. I have provided link after link after link for this issue.
1.) Al Gore tries to disenfranchise the Florida Military vote saying it didn’t arrive in time by US SNAIL MAIL!
2.) Al Gore tries to disenfranchise the Seminole and Martin County absentee voters when he realizes it is breaking against him by +15,000 votes
3.) Al Gore tries to get a liberal interpretation of pregnant chads in Palm Beach County. Blame Theresa LaPore, a donkocrat!
4.) Al Gore tries to get a four county recount in a 67 county state. Miami-Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, and Hillsborough. The Florida Supremes said sure no problem. The US Supremes said a partial recount disenfranchises the other 63 counties and was ILLEGAL.
Al Gore admits on TV interviews he screwed up and should have asked for a full state recount. 2 of the 4 recounts favor Gore the other two favor Bush unless you and JustDumbBozo are twins? Which one are you, the Schwarzeneggger size or the DeVito sized twin. I choose DeVito sized because your brain is kind of small in this area. Does your impressingly small brain power match your male appendage too?
Regarding Ohio 2004, the disenfranchised voters are from where? Donkocratically controlled cities. If your party controls the cities why didn’t the get-out-the-felon, use those city buses for poll carriages, vote-often-and-at-different-poll sites vote drives work. If there were long lines why didn’t the donkocratic city machines kick into gear. Ohio is two just a state away from Chicago. You telling me the best donkocratic minds in Chicago can’t teach the Clevelanders, Cantoners, Columbusers, Akroners, etc. how to fudge da vote?
Now Diebold. If your side claims the machines had issues after the fact, why were they not tested before the fact? In Filthydelphia, PA Diebold machines arrived at certain voting poll stations with Kerry votes already on them. Did Ohio miss that memo? Hmmm… Keep drinking the Jim Jones Kool-Aid because your mind is a terrible thing!
righton @ 89:
Soccer is good. That we agree on I think.
Yes, Switzerland and Taiwan are both perfectly nice places. Switzerland is prettier. Taipei is more fun.
(rural Taiwan is not much fun, but rural anywhere is not my idea of a good time unless you’ve pitched a tent and are enjoying your own company).
One of the points of this whole diatribe is that there is just not a good linear correlation between the size of the state and the wealth of the country. Next to Switzerland, there’s Germany (also reconstructed from nothing in 50 years). There are places like Italy, where at least half the country manages to be extremely productive in spite of the efforts of mamma stato (and to listen to my relatives, the other half wouldn’t be productive no matter what you did).
We have a long list of countries that have delivered wealth and prosperity to their citizens, and have managed to make peace with their business communities. You picked out two that seemed to hue to “conservative principles” and one of your picks is just not as conservative as you might think at first blush. The pattern just isn’t the one you’re looking for.
Yes, yes, there are places like China and Russia where a command-and-control economy nearly wrecked the place. But on the other end, there are large parts of sub-Saharan Africa where there is no government to speak of. Are they bastions of free enterprise and productivity? No! They’re a mess.
Other than to make arguments, I am not interested in finding rich and prosperous soc-yi-al-ist states. I don’t think that enlarging the state makes wealth by itself, but it can enable wealth if used properly.
I like clean air, high wages, low poverty rates, good schools, efficent capital markets, rule of law, and as much personal freedom as possible. How these are delivered is not a big concern to me. I have just not seen a compelling argument that large C conservatism does a markedly better job at delivering this than any other philosophy. It does do a very good job of protecting the interests of the current group of “haves” (hence, it is conservative). I do not consider myself to be a member of this group, and so their protection and enrichment is not in my list of best interests.