In a bizarre and dramatic twist to a bizarre story, David Irons Jr.’s mother, Janet C. Irons, submitted herself to a polygraph test yesterday morning… and passed with flying colors. A four-page report from Evergreen Polygraph, Inc. concludes that Mrs. Irons was “truthful” in her telling of a 1994 incident in which she claims her son knocked her to the ground and tore the phone off the wall to prevent her from calling 911.
Based on the physiological responses produced by the subject on two polygraph charts, in the opinion of this examiner the subject was not attempting deception when she answered “NO” to the following relevant questions.
43. Did you lie to me when you said your son David assaulted you?
44. Did you lie to me about being assaulted by your son in 1994?
45. Did you lie to me when you said you were not having a diabetic reaction when your son assaulted you in 1994?
While it is true that polygraph results are not admissible in court, they are commonly used during both criminal and civil investigations. Even Dori Monson, one of Irons’ most adamant defenders, apparently considers polygraphs to be credible, as just last Friday he repeatedly issued on-air challenges to both Irons and Ron Sims — the two candidates for King County executive — to submit to just such a test. (Dori may be a bit of a blowhard with whom I passionately disagree on most political issues… but he’s a fair blowhard, and thus I fully expect him to report to his audience the very credible results of Mrs. Irons’ own examination.)
It should also be emphasized that while the polygraph test addressed only the one incident in question, Irons’ parents allege that their son has displayed a pattern of dishonesty and abusive rages that should disqualify him from high office, the details of which I have previously outlined. From my conversations with the family I have no more reason to doubt their broader character testimony than I did their description of the 1994 assault.
I spoke with Mrs. Irons briefly yesterday, before she received the polygraph results, and she repeated her challenge to David Jr. that she made last week on the John Carlson Show… that he join her in taking a polygraph test. However she doesn’t expect him to respond: “liars won’t usually take tests unless forced,” she told me. Still, she hopes this will be the last she needs to speak on the issue.
“I’m very tired of Jr. using us for political fodder, and I’ll be thankful when every few years we don’t have to keep talking about having a dishonest and abusive son. Maybe we can get him to quit lying about us, but I wonder what it will take for him to quit lying about his political opponents?”
Hmm. How about getting him out of politics?
UPDATE:
I received an updated polygraph report that correctly numbers the questions, and have uploaded a new PDF that reflects these changes.
I have seen several movies that show how the CIA trains agents to trick the polygraph. Where else has she worked? Any “empty” periods in the employment history? Have you checked into this possibility Goldy?
How about putting him and all his Republican buddies in a shipping container and sending them to Jesusland. We don’t need his ilk around here.
GOP = mother beater
Yearight, let’s put you in that shipping container along with Irons and send you to Jesusland, too.
Yearight: So are you implying that Janet Irons was trained to pass polygraph tests? Better watch out, you’ll be accused of being a progressive with a wild conspiracy theory like that (he said, circling a finger next to his temple).
As an aside,I’d have to say that the right’s responses to Goldy’s posts are becoming progressively (!)feebler of late. This one doesn’t even come up to the level of feeble.
Who paid for this polygraph?
Did the person who paid, pay extra to expedite the report? I noticed it was faxed it at 5:58 this morning, and administered yesterday.
What were the other questions asked, and was there any attempt at deceptively answering these questions?
by Goldy, 10/27/2005, 9:32 AM
“A four-page report from Evergreen Polygraph, Inc. concludes that Mrs. Irons was “truthful” in her telling of a 1994 incident in which she claims her son knocked her to the ground and tore the phone off the wall to prevent her from calling 911.”
The report says the subject was not attempting deception, not the subject was telling the truth. This is not a semantic difference. You really should be more acurate.
Dosen’t mean a damn thing. It should be apparent to anyone (anyone sane that is) that watched his Mom on the news that she has a screw loose. People with mental disorders notoriously pass polygraphs for many various reasons. There’s a reason they are not admissible in court. Keep up the negative campaigning for good ole buddy Ron Sims Goldy…..just helping the other side I suspect. Oh wait, Sims knows NOTHING about what you’re doing right? Just happened to be perfect timing….yeah right.
Though I tend to find her statements credible, I’m not sure it amounts to much that she passed a polygraph test. Even David Irons’ own version of the event seems to allow that she believes she’s telling the truth about what happened. Now, if he were to take the test, that might make a difference.
Larry the Urbanite-4 ‘This one doesn’t even come up to the level of feeble..’
Your beef is with Goldy. You can only do so much with weak post material.
Puddybud, where are you on this issue? I know you’re a BIG fan of the polygraph test.
Turns out David Irons is a liar, and a domestic abuser.
The culture of corruption, that’s what conservatism stands for these days in America.
The polygraph test means something, but not much. It tends to show that Janet C Irons believes what she is saying, or that she isn’t reacting in a certain way when she answers the questions, or that the equipment isn’t measuring such a reaction. But polygraph tests are not scientifically reliable, and therefore aren’t admitted in court. And even if Janet C Irons and David Irons Jr BOTH BELIEVE what their version of events was, it doesn’t mean that EITHER ONE OF THEM IS CORRECT!
The way I see it, whatever transpired between Janet C Irons and her son that day in 1994, it is not the cause of the family estrangement. David Irons Jr and his mother (and the rest of his family) resolved their differences after the incident. David Jr continued to be employed by the cable company (even as a small percentage owner, he certainly could have been fired by his parents) until it was sold in 1995. The parents supported David Jr in his re-election to the Issaquah School Board in 1995. David Jr and his wife supported David Sr in his contest for the GOP state senate nomination against Dino Rossi in 1996.
It was only when David Jr supported policies — related to the building of new schools and charging of development impact fees — at the school board level that his father disagreed with, and then ran against his sister Di’s employer (Brian Derdowski), that the estrangement occurred.
I don’t place much weight on the 1994 incident, even if it was true. Just like I wouldn’t place much weight if, for example, Ron Sims was suddenly accused of striking a family member 11 years ago.
Maybe they should have had her answer:
“Did you or your husband ever physically or verbally abuse your son?”
“Do you suffer from diabetes?”
“Have you ever had a diabetic episode?”
The woman is mentally unstable. The fact that she fully believes that Irons hit her doesn’t mean that it is true.
Aren’t a lot of questions repeated in a polygraph test to see if there is a change in the results? Also, yeahright, just because you watched a Colin Ferral movie doesn’t mean that people are instantly trained on how to pass a polygraph test. Claiming that is really pushing the bounds of normality on a state election. The whole Irons family seems a little screwy to me. But as Richard Pope had pointed out that you can’t hold much weight with something that happened 11 years ago. Same reason, I didn’t care if Clinton smoked pot in college.
Con1st @5,
Really… is that the best you can do? I provided the report for download, and at the top it states “Professional oppinion: Truthful.” That is what I reported.
To call me inaccurate is really kind of silly.
I’m trying to imagine if I were a hardcore Republican …
someone who never voted for a Democrat in my life …
and I was confronted with my candidate in this race, a man who almost certainly committed an act of domestic violence, who shows no sign of contrition or humility at all in the matter …
I guess I just wouldn’t vote in that race. Clam up when the subject comes up in a group of friends.
Or I could keep up the spin, but I wouldn’t be able to look myself in the mirror. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night. I’d feel pretty low and weaseley.
yearight @ 8
– Noticed you didn’t respond to the implication that your theory was way the hell out there.
– Love how the onus of proof is always on the non Republican, and it’as always the best tactic to question a claim first, before asking the Republican to repond. Guess it’s always OKIYAR, right?
– Nice attempt at trying to shift the blame for your weak responses. My response to you is “It’s a poor workman that blames his tools”
– If Goldy’s post are so poor, why bother responding to them? Or, alternately, why go for off topic media bite (i.e. short comment) instead of analyzing and rebutting in depth?
– And, finally, instead of trying to imply Janet Irons fooled the polygraph test, or questioning who paid for it, as some other commentors have done, why not encourage Jr. to take the polygraph himself? That would be the most efficacious way of rebutting his mother’s claims wouldn’t it? Unless he has something to hide…
_
Larry @ 15
David has something to hide, and the lying liars know it.
GBS: Sorry for the delay, as I just arrived at the Orlando Airport blogging away!
Regarding Polygraph tests; I think it’s great that Janet Sr. took the test AND PASSED. Yes, I do trust LDTs and support them. I was ready to take one just for you GBS!!! The question is what were the subject questions asked. I could think of many more questions to ask Janet Sr. but it’s too late. I think it’s mighty curious that the Sims campaign got this out so fast to Goldy. Naah, we are separate entities, Sims Campaign and Animal Hind Parts. Suuuuurrrre, Goldy, suuuuurrrre! Looks like their candidate is toilet bound and the big dem machine can’t lose king county to the repubs. But as stated before, a delusional person who has set in their mind a specific set of events WILL pass a LDT. Now I call for David Irons to take the test. Seriously, that will settle this issue once and for all.
GBS, if David Irons passes what will you do next? Goldy, if David Irons passes the LDT, will you STFU on this subject once and for all? I doubt it. You seem to enjoy enjoy sucking off Ron Sims so keep sucking that man juice bro!
Polygraph tests ARE admissible as evidence in court. It must be agreed to by both sides beforehand and it is known and binding evidence.
ConFirst @ 5.
You don’t know how polygraphs work do you? They measure your physiological responses when you are intentionally trying to be deceptive, not tell the truth. The control questions establish your physiological responses to telling the truth vs. the questions that probe a particular matter (like being hit by your son.)
When responses match the control question you are not attempting to be deceptive, ie telling the truth. When your physiological responses vary, we know you are under stress and attempting to be deceitful.
David Irons is a domestic abuser. Pure and simple.
Now we know why she didn’t call 911: David ripped the phone out of the wall.
Goldy, back on 10/21: “I cannot possibly know the truth of what transpired that day, but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that David Jr.’s mother believes her son hit her.”
…which is the whole problem with this story. We’ll never know what actually transpired that day.
Felix @ 14: “I’m trying to imagine if I were a hardcore Republican…and I was confronted with my candidate in this race, a man who almost certainly committed an act of domestic violence, who shows no sign of contrition or humility at all in the matter…”
Doesn’t that raise as much question for Ma Irons’ support of Jr. Irons for the Issaquah School Board a year after this incident as it does for anybody else’s support today? That’s what I’m trying to figure out; I understand not filing charges, but why would Mrs. Irons have anything to do with her son after such an incident? As you said,
“I guess I just wouldn’t vote in that race. Clam up when the subject comes up in a group of friends.”
Why didn’t she do the same in the 1995 race? I bring this up as, I think, her support in 1995 speaks to her credibility.
I’m leaning against voting for Irons, but there is so much bad blood in this story on both sides, I just don’t see ever getting to the truth.
Puddybud,
IF, and that’s a BIG if, David Irons takes the polygraph test and passes, I will recant all my statements and apologize to David Irons, and all the conservatives on this blog. Hell, I’ll even make a public apology on John Carlson’s show if you’d like.
BTW, it’s not the man juice, BRO, it’s watching the lying liars getting justice served to them. Those who “claim” the moral high ground, moral clarity, to good Christians, I like to see the sheep’s clothing yanked off the wolves who would devour democracy.
Know what I mean, Bro’?
Gee, smoking pot in college is JUST LIKE a grown man hitting his mother.
And you rethugs bitch and moan about moral relativism?
Goldy continues to beat this deadhorse in a weak attempt to deflect attention away from Sims and his miserable performance.
Goldy has completely avoided recent developments regarding KCE and Dean Logan.
Goldy is dreaming if he believes any undecided voters read his Blog and say…..I’ll vote for that loser Sims because Goldy dredges up some 11 year-old BS on Sims opponent.
Goldy is dreaming if he believes undecided voters care about his old story.
Sims has incredible negative numbers BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS and record as KingCo Executive.
This issue has done nothing to change Sims negative numbers.
By the way…
If Sims wins=================Logan keeps his job.
If Sims loses================Logan is FIRED!!!
If David Irons wins==========Logan is FIRED!!!
MANY more folks care about this than a crazy old lady’s 11 year-old allegations.
If this were so important, the old battleax would have pressed charges over a decade ago.
It smells like a week old dead fish in the sun!
I read the report and it doesn’t mention the daughter being there at all. It only states he knocked her down. After she followed him and attacked him by hanging up the phone he was trying to use. She got up, said she was calling 911 and left.
So by her own story she assaulted the son first and he re-acted to that assault. I’ve been caught in one of these situations myself. I was the one that was found at fault because I removed the phone from the persons hand to hang up and they responded to that assault. Nothing happened of it in court I was told it was my fault and that was used against me for other issues in court (custody hearing). But after Three years in court I have them!
STP — standard troll procedure — demonize and vilify anyone who says something they don’t want to hear. The trolls have vaseline between their ears.
I.e., gooey with no substance.
-The woman is mentally unstable. The fact that she fully believes that Irons hit her doesn’t mean that it is true. –
Janet S illustrates GOP “family values” in action! Blame the victim!
Goldy, at NWPortal the headline for this entry cuts off at “passes…”
I seriously expected to read that she’d DIED. Glad she didn’t, but it was a little disappointing to find she’d passed…a test. :)
Roger Rabbit thinks he’s a stud cuz he claims to have had sex with his grade school teacher.
Normally I would applaud Rog for his manliness……except for one small detail…..
Roger Rabbit was HOME-SCHOOLED!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HARHO HO HOH OHOHO OH OHOHOHOHOHOOHOOHOHOHOHOOHOOHOOHOHOHOHOHOHOOHOHOOHOHOOHOHOHOHOOHOHOHOHOHOHOOHOOHOHOHOHOOHOHOHOHHOOHOHOHOHOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEHOOOOOOHEEEEEEEEEEEHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Roger Rabbit had sex with his grade school teacher…..only problem is Roger was home schooled.
That there is funny stuff…..I don’t care who you are!
So GBS, I call for David Jr. to take the lie detector test. When he passes, I’ll call the Carlson show and schedule your visit!!! He know me because we’ve debated the issues before. BTW, Goldy loves the Sims man juice! Just look at these Ironic postings.
Comment by Goldy— 10/27/05 @ 10:41 am
“To call me inaccurate is really kind of silly.”
You are right, I missed the summary. I apologize, my statements in regard to you being in accurate were themselves inaccurate.
You did side step the question of who paid for the test. Was it you? Mrs. Irons? Or some outside group with an agenda? Was the Sims campaign involved in any way?
Also, knowing the control questions seems important to get the whole picture.
Puddybud,
Game on!
Janet S @ 24,
One again, Janet S, you show you are incapable of logic. Just because something is not included in one narative, doesn’t make it incompatible with another narative. The people writing the narative (Seattle Times reporter, Goldy, Mr. Peregrin) focused on different aspects of the story.
The polygraph test strongly backs up the other evidence that David Irons, Jr. hit his mother, and he now lies about it by
denying the story that 3 members of his family say is true.
But, this is not even the point. The big-picture isn’t about an 11 year old crime.
The real point is that David Irons has a long-term pattern of interactions that suggest an anger management problem.
Furthermore, he has a pattern of lying and deceitfulness.
He isn’t fit for public office!
I’d be soooo impressed if Irons actually took the test…
Thats not really his MO though.
Repuplicans don’t do things like take tests, take stands on issues, enforce discipline on their underlings… or tell the truth.
We can dream tho’
ConservativeFirst @ 31
Also, knowing the control questions seems important to get the whole picture.
What a fucking moron! Were you going to evalate whether Mr. Pergrin administered the polygraph properly?
Just another wingnut apologist for a lyin’ motherbeater!
Goldy,
You’ve made it clear why you believe David Irons won’t agree to the polygraph. Why do you think Sims is refusing to get wired up?
GBS-18 ‘Now we know why she didn’t call 911: David ripped the phone out of the wall.’
Was there any other phones she could access an hour later? Later that day? The next day? The next week? The next month? What, not until a political squabble developed? Hmmm.
Con1st @31,
Mrs. Irons paid for the test, and took it on her own initiative.
ConservativeFirst @31 is absolutely righton!
Goldy—
Please find out the following:
Who paid for the polygraph?
Was the Sims campaign involved?
Was there more than 1 test administered?
Were there any questions asked more than once?
Who owns Evergreen Polygraph, Inc?
Check into the background and political leanings of the test administrator.
Who “WITNESSED” the administration of the test??
It is very important that a polygraph be irrefutably administered in a transparent fashion.
Would the old Battle-Ax take another test administered by an out-of-state polygraph firm with witnesses from both sides oberving?
Roger Rabbit-25 ‘..demonize and vilify anyone who says something they don’t want to hear.’
Sounds familiar. That is exactly what the HA “team” does.
All,
What is the big obsession about the Sims campaign and this story? I mean, the meat of Goldy’s story was published in the Seattle Times in 2003.
If anything, I am annoyed that the Sims campaign didn’t publicize the 2003 story—say, by handing out copies of the 2003 Seattle Times articles about Irons hitting his mother.
Is it considered “dirty politics” to mention published articles about ones opponent?
That said, several of us witnessed the evolution of this story over several weeks while drinking beer with Goldy at Drinking Liberally. The less-interesting truth is that Goldy was following up on Balder’s Sept 29th story in the Seattle Times.
Comment by dj— 10/27/05 @ 11:57 am
“What a f*****g moron! Were you going to evalate whether Mr. Pergrin administered the polygraph properly? ” (expletive deleted)
I’d like to have all the information, including who paid for the test. I’m skeptical of incomplete documentation, especiallly after the Rather fiasco.
“Just another wingnut apologist for a lyin’ motherbeater!”
I’m not sure how being a skeptic makes me an apologist for anything.
Now we know why she didn’t call 911: David ripped the phone out of the wall.
So she called her husband instead. Umm, ok.
Irrelevant Troll & C1st…
You keep saying ‘we wanna know who paid for the test’.
Are you purposely ignoring the answer (hint: Mrs. Irons), or are you incapable of reading ‘inconvenient’ posts?
They were in an argument one day in 1994 while he was in their employ. She told him to leave but he would not. He said he wanted to make some phone calls and went into his father’s office. She followed him in and hung up the phone on him.
Real winner there. That tactic might work on an 8 year old, but this is her adult son. It is clear even from her own story that she is abusive.
Michael @ 45,
Yet ANOTHER apologist for a lyin’ motherbeater.
Man, you wingnuts take the cake when it comes to blaming the victim.
@46 Nowhere did I say that what she did justifies physical violence; it does however indicate that she is abusive.
ConservativeFirst @ 42
“I’m not sure how being a skeptic makes me an apologist for anything.”
Lets review, shall we?
Janet C. has publically discussed, since 1999, that Dave Jr. physically abused her. The story was covered by a major newspaper in 2003, and Goldy independently interviewed her and got the same story (along with lots of other evidence for Iron’s hot temper).
Now, the woman takes a polygraph test for the first and makes the results public, and the test report states the professional opinion that the claims are truthful.
And you think that is not enough because you haven’t been given to opportunity to evaluate how well the test was done (as if you were even qualified)?
Yep… you are a fucking apologist for a lyin’ motherbeater.
GBS: You’re on only because you feel David Jr. will not take the test. Well I hope he does!!! I hope he takes it at the same place his momma did. I want the same questions asked of him from his perspective of course.
Michael @ 47
“Nowhere did I say that what she did justifies physical violence; it does however indicate that she is abusive.”
Oooooohhhhhh. She hung up the phone when a disobediant employee acted improperly.
We understand now, Dave Jr. … you were perfectly justified when you beat up your mother.
DJ: What if this is a figment of her mind if David passes the test? You will lose another talking point huh? At least GBS is a MAN to say he’ll retract his commentary. Are you man enough to admit that too? I have called for David Jr. to take the LDT. If he does and passes will YOU wash your potty hands and STFU on Irons Jr.?
I know you guys were in a hurry to get this out before election day, but you should have taken a moment to proofread your work.
The purpose of the examination was to determine if you have been truthful about an assault against you by your son David in 1994?
That sentence should end with a period, not a question mark. While I wouldn’t criticize someone’s punctuation or grammar on a blog, this document is supposedly prepared by a professional.
Hey, you can always vote for Gentry Lange… http://www.gentrylange.com
And while you’re at it – call 206-448-5555 and ask for Robert Mak. Ask that Gentry Lange be in King 5 UpFront Debate.
E-mail RMak AT King5 DOT com, too for extra measure.
We need more choices… and honest elections :-).
Comment by Goldy— 10/27/05 @ 12:06 pm
“Mrs. Irons paid for the test, and took it on her own initiative.”
Thanks for the clarification. Seems like a pretty important fact not to be included in your original article, and only would have strengthened your case from the beginning.
Comment by windie— 10/27/05 @ 12:33 pm
“Are you purposely ignoring the answer (hint: Mrs. Irons), or are you incapable of reading ‘inconvenient’ posts? ”
Often times I open the window for a response, get interrupted, then come back, and in the intervening time other posts are made that I don’t see. If I miss a post that responds to me, that happens some times too.
Puddybud @ 51,
Sure, if Dave Jr. passes a substantively similar polygraph test indicating that he did not clobber his mom, I’ll publically apologize to him here, and I’ll personally write an apology to him.
However, given that Goldy has documented a history of violent tendencies; and, given Dave Jr.’s general “veracity problem,” I doubt he will take and “pass” such a test. (And if he takes it and fails, he probably won’t release the information.)
Oooooohhhhhh. She hung up the phone when a disobediant employee acted improperly.
We understand now, Dave Jr. … you were perfectly justified when you beat up your mother.
Feel free to ignore the part where I said “Nowhere did I say that what she did justifies physical violence.” However, what she admits to doing is to me not what normal people do in that situation. It is indicitave of a history of abusive behavior. You say that the people on David’s side are “blaming the victim,” but has it ever occurred to you the possibility that David might be the victim of systematic abuse over a long period of time? Might he not also be a victim?? Just because he doesn’t go on blogs claiming that his mom is a nut case and has abused him doesn’t mean she hasn’t, it might just mean that he has more discretion than she does.
Josef @ 53
“Hey, you can always vote for Gentry Lange…”
So, does this mean that you are no longer supporting Irons and have switched to Gentry Lange? Or were you just making a public service announcement?
Corporations Division – Registration Data Search
EVERGREEN POLYGRAPH INC.
UBI Number 601 572 607
Category Regular Corporation
Profit/Nonprofit Profit
Active/Inactive Active
State of Incorporation WA
Date of Incorporation 09/15/1994
License Expiration Date 09/30/2005
Registered Agent Information
Agent Name RICHARD PEREGRIN
Address 1125 LAKE PARK DR #B
City TUMWATER
State WA
ZIP 98512
Here is the guy who apparently administered the polygraph.
It says his Corporate License expired on 9/30/05.
I don’t know him….never heard of him.
Let’s see Goldy pass a polygraph asking him if he had anything to do with the timing of the slams on David Iron’s family issues coinciding with Ronnie Sim’s campaign a few weeks before the election……………..and lets see Sim’s pass one asking him if he knew anything about it prior. What? What not????!!!!
Michael @ 56
‘Feel free to ignore the part where I said “Nowhere did I say that what she did justifies physical violence.”’
I didn’t ignore it…I was responding to other parts of your message. Perhaps I should have acknowledged this—sorry, and thanks for that part.
“However, what she admits to doing is to me not what normal people do in that situation. It is indicitave of a history of abusive behavior.”
What the fuck? All we get from that account is that an employee is told to leave and instead barges into the bosses office and starts making a phone call. The other boss hangs up the phone.
Suggesting that she is abusive based on that written account is ludicrous. Sure, the incident isn’t inconsistent with her being an abusive boss, or an abusive mother. On the other hand, she was the person in authority. I suspect nobody would cry “abusive” if a male boss hung took such “strong” action (hanging up the phone) when a disobediant employee barged into an office to use the phone.
“You say that the people on David’s side are “blaming the victim,” but has it ever occurred to you the possibility that David might be the victim of systematic abuse over a long period of time? Might he not also be a victim??”
Sure. We don’t really have much evidence for or against that claim, except a general intergenerational correlation in cases of domestic abuse. But, Janet C. Irons is not running for office; Dave Jr. is running for office.
I am less concerned about the etiology of Dave Jr.’s violent tendencies than I am about the possibility of such a person being the King County Executive.
In other words, even if his mother caused him to become a violent person, it doesn’t make him any more fit to be KC Executive!
Roger Rabbit,
Maybe someone should load your ass back in the hat you came from!
Evergreen Polygraph Inc. uses a neuro-linguistic method of examination, which is very unlike the electro-sensor polygraph that most of us are familiar with, in is actually more like hypnosis. This method of administering polygraph is considered extremely unreliable by the industry.
So basically a hypnotist says she is telling the truth, it must be true.
Mr Cynical @ 58
Of course, you forgot to mention the disclaimer for the Corporations Division – Registration Data Search:
Disclaimer
Information in the Secretary of State’s Online Corporations Database is updated Monday through Friday by 5:00 a.m. Pacific Standard Time (state holidays excluded). Neither the State of Washington nor any agency, officer, or employee of the State of Washington warrants the accuracy, reliability, or timeliness of any information in the Public Access System and shall not be liable for any losses caused by such reliance on the accuracy, reliability, or timeliness of such information. While every effort is made to ensure the accuracy of this information, portions may be incorrect or not current. Any person or entity who relies on information obtained from the System does so at his or her own risk.
Mark1 @59
So fucking what? Goldy said right off the bat that everything he did was timed for maximal impact on the Irons
campaign, and he also said he gave a heads up to Sims campaign in the course of an unrelated call. In short, he’d pass,
which is more than David “mombeater” Irons could say.
Better trolls, please!
My boss would never tell me to “Get out” or physically hang up a phone that I was talking on. I don’t know what world you live in.
@64:
Instead of speculating, let’s see some actual results instead of your unfounded assumptions moron.
Comment by dj— 10/27/05 @ 12:51 pm
“And you think that is not enough because you haven’t been given to opportunity to evaluate how well the test was done (as if you were even qualified)?”
I’ve never said that I’m qualified to administer the test, or evaluate how well it was done, I’m merely asking for the complete documentation. If Ron Sims was the person being accused of beating his mother I’d want to see the same thing. This is a serious charge and I’m not willing to jump on the bandwagon one way or the other until more of the facts come out.
“Yep… you are a f*****g apologist for a lyin’ motherbeater.” (expletive deleted)
Here’s the definition of apologist:
“A person who argues in defense or justification of something, such as a doctrine, policy, or institution.”
To be an apologist, I’d have to argue in defense of Iron’s behavior, something I’ve not done. So to paraphrase Goldy, to call me an apologist is quite silly.
Mark1@66
What’s unfounded? Have you actually looked at Goldy’s previous posts (you know, the ones where he acknowledges he did exactly
what you accuse him of not saying he did?), or are you just really really stupid?
Michael @ 65
“My boss would never tell me to “Get out” or physically hang up a phone that I was talking on.”
Who gives a fuck about what your boss would do. As a reasonable person, Michael, you probably wouldn’t get into an argument with you boss.
Dave Jr. got into an argument with his boss, who told him to leave. He disobeyed his boss and barged into an inner office and started using the phone. The boss hit the hang-up button.
This account, in fact, further shows an manifestation of Dave Jr.’s anger management problem. When a boss tells you to leave, you leave. Forcing his way into the inner office was an act of violence and defiance against a person who rightly has authority over him.
He is unfit for office.
@68:
Yes I have. I just think if you people are gonna make a big deal out of David Iron’s Mommy’s polygraph, then practice the same and have Goldy and Ronnie Sims take one too. Fair’s fair.
A couple other questions come to mind.
How come she went all the way to Olympia to be tested? She lives in the Sammamish area right? Or did she move at some point?
I assume this is the “other shoe”, did Mrs. Irons take more than one test?
I also found this interesting piece of information to add to the hopper(requires MS Word or free downloadable Word Reader):
http://www.dir.ca.gov/csmcs/arb/awds/A00208-2.doc
“He [Richard Peregrin] further concurred that the validity of any polygraph test depends largely on the method and skill of the one administering the test, and that polygraph tests can be sabotaged by a determined test taker.” (my emphasis)
Mark “dumb as a box of rocks” 1
You have – as usual – missed the point – he’d pass the polygraph you propose BECAUSE HE ALREADY ACKNOWLEDGED
DOING THE THINGS YOU ACCUSE HIM OF LYING ABOUT (sorry about the all caps, fellow HA’ers,but this troll’s skull is
unusally thick!)
It really is a sign of how far down the rabbit hole we’ve fallen – that we have in here a group of people defending what is fundamentally indefensible.
Some people have actually been known to change their mind when confronted with evidence that their candidate is dangerously unqualified for office.
Save all the ‘presumed innocent’ b.s. – there is a preponderance of evidence and a clear pattern – period.
Yearight @ 37
So what’s your relevant point jackass?
Puddybud @ 49
Oh, you couldn’t be more WRONG camel breath. I’m hoping and praying he takes the exact same test. I really, really, do hope he is MAN enough to take the exact same test. From the examiners prespective!!
Unlike our shitty, lying, bastard of a president, people like me and Goldy admit when we’re wrong. I’d be happy to call John’s show and make a genuine apology.
I just don’t think I’ll be making that phone call. Bro’
Michael @ 62
“Evergreen Polygraph Inc. uses a neuro-linguistic method of examination, which is very unlike the electro-sensor polygraph that most of us are familiar with, in is actually more like hypnosis. This method of administering polygraph is considered extremely unreliable by the industry.
So basically a hypnotist says she is telling the truth, it must be true.”
Geee…it would sure be nice if you cited your source for this. Or were you just joking around? According to the report, the examination was done on a 4 channel Lafayette computerized polygraph. That would be the LX4000.
That is standard electro-sensor polygraphy.
Anything—any price—to defeat Sims. Even if it means electing a lyin’ motherbeater
we have in here a group of people defending what is fundamentally indefensible
No is defending him if he really did it. We have just learned to question results from things like Rather-gate. There is a reason that polygraphs are not admissable in court (unless both parties agree), especially the “neuro-linguistic” method.
Puddybud,
Now that DJ and me have publicly put our honor and integrity on the line here by saying we’ll apologize here, DJ will write a personal letter and I will apologize on KVI.
What are you willing to stake should David Irons NOT take the polygraph test? How will you respond, PUBLICLY, should he not rise to the challenge?
How about you match me? You call John Carlson and denounce David Irons if he doesn’t take the polygraph at least 48 hours before the elections?
Well. . . Big Guy, it’s put up or shut the fuck up time.
Geee…it would sure be nice if you cited your source for this. Or were you just joking around?
“The Washington Ironman is one of the largest NPC drug tested events in the country. We use Richard Perrigan from Evergreen Polygraph testing. Richard is an expert polygrapher and uses a neuro-linguistic technique to further verify drug free athletes.
http://www.craigproductions.com/IMshowinfo.html
I suppose this doesn’t say that Evergreen Polygraph does not use other methods, but it does say that Evergreen Polygraph does use the neuro-linguistic method.
Pudybud,
If you have to call your buddy Carlson, you have to mention that David Irons’ domestic violence is the reason he shouldn’t be elected since I have to apologize for accusing him of the same.
Now, that’s pretty fair.
Game On!
have any of you heard that if someone is a pathological liar…i.e. actually belives what she is saying to be true even though it isn’t…..they can easily pass a polygraph. that is why they are not allowed as evidence in court.
come on goldy…this is all you’ve got?
ChristmaGhost @ 81
That’s actually a misnomer that a pathological liar believes what they are saying. A pathological liar knows when they lie. When you lie minute changes occur within the physiology of your body due to stress that you cannot control. These minute fluctuations are the indicators if someone is being deceptive or not. The issues are admissibility in court have varying degrees, but are allowed in certain instances in a court of law.
Polygraphs are routinely used in murders cases quickly eliminate people close to victim. They are extremely reliable. Although, I will admit subject to interpretation, which is why they are not admissible as criminal evidence. But, they can be admitted as binding evidence.
ok, guys, calm down, it’s nothing we don’t already know about,
1. Yesterday Goldy mentiones he “working” on some new scoop.
2. Obviously he new that Mrs Irons was going to the LTD.
3. All is done not for the facts, but for the supposed impact
4. If it was for the facts, ah well.
5. At 5:58 am a fax is sent. No regular biz is working at that time unless it’s an emergency or some other well paid endevour.
6. Goldy or someone “close” to him paid for the LTD (no doubt about it)
7. No matter what the facts are, experts would clearly question the validity of the test here.
a) The person seems to be mentally unstable.
b) Older people have a limited short term memory and tend to fill this with “memories” of the past. No matter whether it’s true or not or somewhat true or…
c) a proper LTD depends measures various skin reactions which are best and most reliable in humans 15 to 45 years old. After that, aging of the skin, degrading of the nerve structure etc. brings many discrepancies and problems with the LDT to light.
But no matter what, you guys on the left have already made up your mind. As that Fermin guy writes: “I’m trying to imagine if I were a hardcore Republican …
someone who never voted for a Democrat in my life …
and I was confronted with my candidate in this race, a man who almost certainly committed an act of domestic violence, who shows no sign of contrition or humility at all in the matter …”
the jury is no longer out, but has already left the building and has gone on vacation. Who’s looking at the facts ? No one…for you Irons is guilty as charged.
Now, if I would be a Republican and would hear that…I would look into it and investigate or try to put facts together…you guys don’t…cuz you already knew what you wanted to hear before hand. Ah well… SOP
Michael @ 79
Thanks for the reference.
“I suppose this doesn’t say that Evergreen Polygraph does not use other methods, but it does say that Evergreen Polygraph does use the neuro-linguistic method.”
It says, “Richard is an expert polygrapher and uses a neuro-linguistic technique to further verify drug free athletes.
Mrs. Iron’s report documents that this was standard polography.
Rabbitwho,
3. All is done not for the facts, but for the supposed impact
4. If it was for the facts, ah well.
So, you are saying elect a motherbeater anyway, huh?
5. At 5:58 am a fax is sent. No regular biz is working at that time unless it’s an emergency or some other well paid endevour.
So? Apparently this business does work at that time. Or, it was an expedited report. How is that relevant?
“6. Goldy or someone “close” to him paid for the LTD (no doubt about it)”
You fucking moron. Mrs. Irons is a millionare. Goldy begs for beer. Why wouldn’t Mrs. Irons pay for the test, since she decided to take it? What an idiot!
“7. No matter what the facts are, experts would clearly question the validity of the test here.
a) The person seems to be mentally unstable.
b) Older people have a limited short term memory and tend to fill this with “memories” of the past. No matter whether it’s true or not or somewhat true or…
c) a proper LTD depends measures various skin reactions which are best and most reliable in humans 15 to 45 years old. After that, aging of the skin, degrading of the nerve structure etc. brings many discrepancies and problems with the LDT to light.”
Care to cite your source on this, Sherlock? Or are you just pulling these “facts” out of your ass?
Rabbitwho: Another apologist for a lyin’ motherbeater!
Ok Irons, your mother passed a polygraph test….No it’s your turn…(just stay clear of him if he fails!!)
>I have seen several movies that show how the CIA trains agents >to trick the polygraph.
Yes, that’s Irons’s defense, his mother was trained by the CIA to pass the polygraph test. Oh boy.
Normal people either report domestic abuse to the authorities, or just live with it. Normal people do not go on blogs to talk about their abuse, and only talk about it near election days. Something stinks here.
GBS-74 ‘So what’s your relevant point..’
Assault victims can call 911 to report the assualt well after the event. If she never did call it in why would she call it in at the time. The “phone pulled out of the wall” is lame.
Michael at 88 — I don’t see Mrs Irons here on this blog talking about the beating she took at the hands of her son. I do see some very concerned citizens trying to get the truth out to the public. And of course some apologists who would defend ANY republican, no matter who, on anything, anywhere, anytime. These are the ones you see calling Mrs Irons “mentally unbalanced”, “liar” and “limited short term memory”, “child molester” etc. Do you see now? What is your opinion NOW? Should we elect someone who assaults his own mother?
yealight @ 89 — obviously you have no idea of what victims of abuse go through. It is not uncommon for them to keep it secret, even to the point of death. You NEOCON NAZI. Now, please move to another country. You are not wanted here.
Question: If Karl Rove passed a polygraph, would that get him out of hot water? Just curious.
I don’t see Mrs Irons here on this blog talking about the beating she took at the hands of her son.
If I were a real victim of domestic violence, Goldy would be one of the last people I would be holding a conversation about it with.
Mrs. Iron’s report documents that this was standard polography.
You can believe Vulcan Mind Meld guy if you want, I still believe he is a quack regardless of which technique he is using at the time.
rabbitwho @83,
Hey… great Sharkansky-like analysis! You should post over on (u)SP.
No… this is not the big story I’m working on. If my facts pan out and I can convince witnesses to go on my record, the big story I’m working on will be, well… big.
I did not learn about the polygraph until Mrs. Irons contacted me yesterday afternoon.
See… this is what comes from making “obvious” conclusions when you don’t have all the facts. Just like the Snark does.
yearight @ 89 & 92
@ 89:
Like I said, what’s your RELEVANT point? Just because a crime goes unreported, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Do you think every case of domestic abuse, rape, or molestation gets reported?
God Damn it! You rode the short bus to school didn’t you?
@ 92:
Karl Rove can’t pass a polygraph. Because he’s a lying sack crap.
Go, Goldy, Go!
Doing what the minnow only dreams he could do!
Bring in the big story, Goldy. Can’t for more honest and real investigative reporting. I miss the good ol’ days when we used to get that from the MSM before Conservatives bought them all up and used them as the RNC’s propoganda machine.
fire_one-91 ‘It is not uncommon for them to keep it secret, even to the point of death.’
No problem. Why then would calling 911 even be an issue? And why would a political battle bring the story out? Just sounds fishy. Using the logic seen here, one would have to believe those first-hand eyewitness stories about Hillary throwing the lamp at Bill.
GBS-95 ‘I miss the good ol’ days when we used to get that from the MSM…’
Interesting point. The righties have their media watchdog, (Media Research Center, MRC), and now the lefties have theirs. (Media Matters, MM) MRC focusses on MSM (CBS, ABC, NBC, NYT, LAT, etc.) and tries to point out the prevalence of liberal bias. MM focuses on the the “opinion” pundits on the right, (O’Reilly, Limbaugh, etc.), with a few shots at NYT for Iraq war stuff. If the MSM, which has by far the largest audiences, is so biased to the right why does MM ignore them?
Opponents of I-912 are placing signs claiming “I-912 won’t fix this road parking lot!” But neither will their precious gas tax. Their taxes are being used to rebuild the very freeways that have been neglected over the years. It turns…
If it didn’t work against David Wu in the 1st Congressional District race last year in Oregon, it won’t work with the public in this year’s election against Irons.
David Irons will win.
Michael @ 93
“You can believe Vulcan Mind Meld guy if you want, I still believe he is a quack regardless of which technique he is using at the time.”
Of course you will not consider the evidence from a polygraph test. That might raise an ethical dilema from voting for a liar who beats his mother.
Quick! Cover your eyes, plug your ears! Willful ignorance is bliss for Michael.
Reply to 40
“That is exactly what the HA ‘team’ does.”
Do you like it? I hope so, because that’s exactly what you right-wing nazis have been doing to liberals for years, and we’re gonna keep dishing back and dishing back. Fucking fascist whiner.
Empty Headed @ 51
Hey Putty Brains, what if David Irons takes the test and flunks it — then what are you gonna do? Shit in your pants?
Some of all of your comments might matter if you weren’t all so damn partisan…every one of you is why nothing gets done correctly in gov’t. Its a stupid contest on who can slander the other one and then make special interest money. Get real jobs and let someone qualified run of office.
@61
At least I’ve got a hat — you’re no hat, no cattle.
@61
Hey Rich, in case you’re new here — a word of advice — never pick up a bunny by the ears.
@62
So basically if a pseudo-Christian neocon freak says Saddam had WMDs, global warming doesn’t exist, and evolution is bunk — it must be true, is that right?
73
Puh-leeze, Felix — this has nothing to do with rabbit holes!!! Keep the facts straight — the trolls fell into a shit-hole, not a rabbit hole! I sure wouldn’t have any of them as guests. If they fell into my hole, I’d kick ’em out with my powerful hind legs equipped with razor sharp claws, tearing ’em new belly buttons in the process.
88
Michael you’d be amazed how many people do not report domestic abuse, rape, or violence involving a close relative.
yeatight at 97 —- don’t you get it? Calling 911 IS the problem. They won’t call. Period.
You know, you guys sound alot like what the Germans in the 1930s must have sounded like; “Our Party, Right or Wrong”. Oh sure, they were sorry after the war…
But I really do want to encourage all of you NEOCONs to move out of the country. I’m sorry, did I say NEOCON? I meant NEONAZI… Let’s call a spade a spade…
Well gee, I’ve read this whole thread, and what I see here is a bunch of rightwing dickheads trying to defend another rightwing dickhead who slugged his own mother — and now wants us to elect him County Executive. Why should we be surprised? These are the same rightwing dickheads who defend the rightwing cokehead squatting at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and fucking up the whole world. Irons is a spoiled rich kid who turned out to be a bully and a jerk! Fuck him.
GBS-95
From 97: Why then would calling 911 even be an issue? And why would a political battle bring the story out?
‘You rode the short bus to school didn’t you?’
You have a problem with “short bus” kids?
Thanks for not answering the Karl Rove question. That would put your panties in a binder, no?
fire_one-108 ‘don’t you get it?’
You bet. No answer on why Goldy and the other HAers emphasize the phone part, and not being able to call 911 because of it? I didn’t think so.
PROOF THAT JANET C IRONS LIED TO THE SEATTLE P-I (AND TO GOLDY)
Version of events that Janet C Irons told the polygraph examiner on October 26, 2005 about the argument with her son David Irons Jr in 1994, and on which she was examined by the polygraph examiner (Page 3 of Goldy’s PDF link):
“Client’s version: The client told me her son has been saying he was victimized by his mother for political gain. She said he has been using this for eleven years. She went on to say they were in an argument one day in 1994 while he was in their employ. She told him to leave but he would not. He said he wanted to make some phone calls and went into his father’s office. She followed him in and hung the phone up on him. He got angry and pushed her down by swinging his arm stiking her and knocking her to the ground. She got up and said she was calling 911. She left the office and parked down the street. She said he called his dad and told him he had hit his mother. She waited a short time and waved down another family member that was coming to work.”
The version of events that Janet C Irons told Gregory Roberts and Neil Modie for the 10/21/2005 Seattle P-I story:
David Irons Jr.’s mother, Janet C. Irons, said Thursday that Goldstein’s posting was accurate, including the description of the 1994 confrontation in which, she said, her son “knocked me flat” during a heated argument.
…
The argument took place in the Fall City office of All Points Cable TV, a family business started in the late 1970s by David Irons Jr.’s father, Dave Irons Sr., the mother said.
“I had told him to get out of my office, and he wouldn’t leave,” Janet C. Irons, 73, said. “I said, ‘David, I own the place, and you’re an employee. Leave.’ ”
Her son then struck her, she said. “I tried to call 911 after he hit me. He tore the phone out of the wall.”
Janet C. Irons said she fled the office and drove off in her car.
…
His mother ridiculed her son’s explanation of her collapse, although she said she does suffer from diabetes. If she experienced a seizure, she asked, why didn’t her son call for medical assistance?
“For years, he’s told lies about us, and nobody questions him,” she said.
“It breaks my heart, but it couldn’t be any more broken than what he’s done. He has destroyed a great deal of everything I’ve spent my life thinking is important.”
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....ons21.html
1. There is NOTHING in the polygraph examination version about David Irons Jr tearing the phone out of the wall when she tried to call 911.
2. Instead, the polygraph examination version says it was Janet C Irons who tore the telephone away from David Irons Jr when he was trying to use it.
3. I seriously doubt there were any telephones in the wall to be torn out of the wall. Very few telephones even in 1994 were mounted in the wall.
4. It would be highly unlikely that the phone in David Irons Sr’s office was mounted in a wall. The head of a company (or any employee for that matter) would have almost certainly had their telephone sitting on their desk and not mounted to anything.
5. It is almost certain that the All Points Cable Company had more than one telephone in the office, so David Irons Jr could not have prevented a 911 call by simply disabling only one telephone (regardless of which disablement method was used).
6. Based on the polygraph version, it was evident that Janet C Irons wanted to leave the office in any event and call 911 from somewhere else.
7. It doesn’t appear likely that Janet C Irons ever called 911 from anywhere, even though she talked to her daughter Di Irons shortly after leaving the office.
8. Janet C Irons told the Seattle-PI that David Irons Jr was in HER OFFICE. But she told the polygraph examiner that David Irons Jr was in HIS FATHER’S OFFICE.
9. Janet C Irons ridiculed her son’s diabetic reaction explanation to the Seattle-PI, asking why her son didn’t call for medical assistance. But she admitted to the polygraph examiner that she ripped the telephone away from her son when he was trying to make some telephone calls.
10. The diabetic reaction explanation is even more likely, since Janet C Irons admitted to the polygraph examiner that David Irons Jr called his father about the incident right after she left the office.
JANET C IRONS NEEDS TO TAKE AN INDEPENDENT POLYGRAPH EXAMINATION BASED ON THE VERSIONS OF EVENTS THAT SHE TOLD GOLDY AND THE SEATTLE P-I!!!
Nice to see the Irons campaign spokesman weighs in on this at 112.
However, most of the post seems to be concerned with where the phone was mounted. I think that misses the point.
Iron’s mother states while taking the polygraph that she was assaulted according to the report:
“[d]id you lie to me when you said your son assaulted you.”
The results of the polygraph test said Ms. Irons “was not attempting deception.”
That’s the central issue.
There is now apparently a polygraph test result stating that Ms. Irons was truthful in her statement (or however much weight you want to put in a polygrph test).
Now, the question is whether Mr. Irons will take the test himself.
Would he pass? Why not clear this up by taking the test paid for by Stefan?
It’s time to put up or shut up.
Janet C Irons needs to either file a charge of assault with the police against her son, or she needs to shut up.
If she is telling the truth, then the police can figure it out, and the courts can handle it. The fact that she is using the press and not filing formal charges means she has no grounds.
Obviously she has no regard for her son, or she wouldn’t have brought all this up in the first place. So what is stopping her? Why didn’t she do it when this first came to light?
Richard Pope-@112
Right on sir!
However, most of the post seems to be concerned with where the phone was mounted. I think that misses the point.
Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Janet C @ 114
“Janet C Irons needs to either file a charge of assault with the police against her son, or she needs to shut up. “
WTF? No she doesn’t.
“If she is telling the truth, then the police can figure it out, and the courts can handle it. The fact that she is using the press and not filing formal charges means she has no grounds.”
Well, the polygraph test pretty much confirms that she told the truth. Filing charges after 11 years? You are joking, right?
“Obviously she has no regard for her son, or she wouldn’t have brought all this up in the first place.”
No kidding. That is what happens when your dishonest son clobbers you.
“So what is stopping her? “
She doesn’t want to press charges?
“Why didn’t she do it when this first came to light? “
She didn’t feel like it? Most victems of assault don’t.
Well, the polygraph test pretty much confirms that she told the truth.
The polygraph test confirms that she believes what she was saying. That either means that what she was saying is true, or that she has a mental disorder. I think it would be much more reliable coming from a psychiatrist than Vulcan Mind Meld guy.
She didn’t feel like it? Most victems of assault don’t.
Most victems [sic] don’t jump in the middle of political campaigns with stories of he said/she said to try to discredit our own relatives.
the polygraph test pretty much confirms that she told the truth.
The polygraph test pretty much confirms that she told the truth or she has a mental disorder which prevents her from understanding what the truth is. My understanding is that the person who administered the test is not qualified to judge that.
Richard Pope @ 112
Unfortunately, Richard, you are making a amateur’s mistake in your “analysis.” None of the write-ups of the stories claim to definitively provide a complete accounting of the events. The stories do not provide mutually exclusive accounts.
Your idea that Mrs. Irons should take a polygraph test is ammusing. You would believe a second polygraph test, but you you don’t believe the first one?
Are you another member of the “Apologist of a Lyin’ Motherbeater Club of King County” Richard?
Ya know what’s funny? The mentally-challenged republican jerks, wonks, weasels and wackos on this forum saying Janet Irons is unstable. Ha Ha! Oh suuure, George Bush ISN’T a LYING, misanthropic WARMONGER crook MORON. Suuuuure. He knows Jesus.
His Royal Lowness George Bush is out to destroy the faith too.
dj @117
Well, the polygraph test pretty much confirms that she told the truth. Filing charges after 11 years? You are joking, right?
I’m a little disappointed in you. Truth after eleven years verified by a polygraph (and her 70+ year old mind), and no criminal charges that can be accepted? Duh…
And Goldy:
“liars won’t usually take tests unless forced,” says Ms. Irons.
I’m thinking you forced her into it…
I wonder what the pre-test questions were to Mrs Irons the check if the Polygraph worked. A perfect question would be how many times did you vote in the last election. Well being a donk if she answers one and the lines start going crazy at least we would know the machine worked.
Hahahahahah
Bleh, 120 and 121 are repeats, 120 didn’t show up and I thought I got filtered.
Michael @ 118
“The polygraph test pretty much confirms that she told the truth or she has a mental disorder which prevents her from understanding what the truth is.”
Oh…so now she is crazy. It must be contaigous then because her husband and her daughter (who witnessed the aftermath of the struggle) back up the story of Janet C. Oh…and her nephew reports another incident in which Dave Jr. was violent. Yeah…she is imagining the whole thing. Right.
“My understanding is that the person who administered the test is not qualified to judge that. “
Oh… is that “your understanding” Michael? And, what is the basis of “your understanding?” Pulling shit out of your ass, are you?
God, the little fringies have their whitie-tighties all in a knot (either that, or they’ve messed their pants) – a tad worried about the election are you?
yearight @ 1
HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH
HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH
HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH
That is the most pathetic post I have read from a TROLL on HA ever! And that includes PuddyBud posts!
HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH
HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH
HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH
dj @127
Oh…so now she is crazy. It must be contaigous then because her husband and her daughter (who witnessed the aftermath of the struggle)
How many times have you witnessed an ‘aftermath’? I saw an accident ‘aftermath’ and swore up and down that the deceased victims could not have been at fault, only to have the accident investigator find them at fault. Eleven fucking years, man…
First Irons mother is “ill”. Now she is a secret agent.
Dear Lord, the death sighs of the NEO-CONs here is wonderful to listen to!
The more I hear, the more controlling and abusive she sounds.
Listen to her language, she “demands” who besides a control freak talks like that? Think about it…. wait never mind I forgot where I was – FOOD FIGHT!!!!!
Oh yeah, you too Mountain Man… Please feel free to move out of my country. We have no room for you here. I really don’t want a repeat of the Nazi regime. Fucking NEONAZIs…
Oh sorry Mountain boy, I didn’t mean to call you a NEONAZI. Really I think you’re more “old school” NAZI…
fire_one @133
Goldy,
Did you read it? Bunch of crap…I thought you were doing something about the ridiculous postings from folks like that, whether right or left…
Marks @ 124
I’m a little disappointed in you. Truth after eleven years verified by a polygraph (and her 70+ year old mind), and no criminal charges that can be accepted? Duh…
Disappointed about what? Mrs. Irons account first appeared in 1999 (5 years after the event). The account is verified by her husband and daughter Di (who witnessed the aftermath in the office). Her Grandson reported a spearate incident of violence by Dave Jr. against him. Goldy has documented other accounts of Dave Jr.’s “temper problems.”
That looked like a pretty clear-cut case of a man with a temper problem.
And now, Mrs. Irons chooses to take a polygraph test, and passes it. Looks very very bad for Dave Jr.
Re: Criminal charges. If she want him arrested, I suspect she would have called the police. Clearly that is not her goal! Mrs. Irons has been completely transparent in her motives. She believes that her son is not fit to be King County Executive.
(Also, I suspect, it is beyond the statute of limitations for 4th degree assault; but, if not, perhaps she will press charges to keep him out of office if he wins!)
‘And Goldy: “liars won’t usually take tests unless forced,” says Ms. Irons. I’m thinking you forced her into it… ‘
Goldy addressed this previously. She did this on her own and did not tell Goldy about it until after taking the test (see 94).
MarkyMarkyMark—- You poor sod. Are you so afraid of being identified as what you actually are?
The LEFTIST PINHEADS are doing there very best to avoid discussing recent developments at Sims KingCo Election Dept. They are avoiding discussing CAO, SWA and the massive transportation in KingCo that has gotten umpteen times worse under Sims watch.
They would rather discuss the 11 year-old allegations of a crazed Battle-Ax!!!
dj—
The fact is, the crazed Battle-Ax never filed formal charges.
She obviously hates her son…..if she didn’t, she wouldn’t even discuss this now.
Let’s discuss the latest Logan bungling, shall we?
And Logan reports to whom??? RON SIMS.
The buck stops with Sims.
dj,
Oh get real! She would never have done this if Goldy had not goaded her into it. Goldy may not have known she would do a polygraph, but Goldy is the only person with the cattle prod (er, Blog).
dj@136 and others;;;;
You are really on a roll dude.
Defending the 11 year-old, politically timed tirades of a crazed Battle Ax who hates her son is quite an undertaking for you.
Why not discuss Sims performance as Executive???
How about that Election Dept.!!
fire_one @137
I am perfectly in-sync with my humanity, so do your worst, robot…
Goldy@95.
Why are you so obsessed with soundpolitics and stephan? There wasn’t even a mentioning of him or the site on my post. Are you afraid of him ? Why are you constantly mentioning him ?
Is it some envy ? Nah..couldn’t be it.
But what I would like to see is some serious discussion about this, not an instant vilification. Now if this is your intention, fine, say so and many of your followers seem to be doing exactly this. Not a good thing to gain credibility. But I keep saying this
Seig Heil, Marky Mark, Seig Heil…
Mountian Man @ 132
“The more I hear, the more controlling and abusive she sounds.”
Who give a fuck if Mrs. Irons is “controlling and abusive” or not. She is not running for office.
It is the dick who flattened his mother and then lies about it who is running for office. Or, are you suggesting that it is ok to have a dishonest and violent KC Executive, if he is the progeny of a controlling mother?
“Listen to her language, she “demands” who besides a control freak talks like that?”
A boss with a disobediant employee.
Oh, Der führer @ 142! Pardon me as I slob all over you…
Um, blow me…
I am particularly upset with Rabbit when I found out he is always using the Cripple’s stall in the Men’s Room.
Rabbit does it cuz he likes the extra size for his harem of MaMA Bunny’s.
But most of all, Rabbit likes them bars on walls. Rabbit is so full of shit, he likes them bars for “power-squeezin” when he’s all constipated up!!!
Forgive me Lord…I stole that one from Larry too…..and Bless all the Pygmy’s in Africa.
Mountain Man not only suggests that it is okay, he WANTS a dishonest and violent KC exec… It’s the only thing I can figure out. There is no way the Republicans could accidentally get this many MORONS elected and appointed and running for office (or up for appointment). They actively WANT morons in office. Must make them feel superior…
Is this the Polygraph Guy???
Re: Spies on the net, Flash News Briefs, November 11
I hope they publish the information [the files of the communist secret police – ŠtB] so people can see the depth of control the communists had over the people. It should also be shown in its entirety so it will never be forgotten and never allowed to happen again. I applaud the Slovak people’s courage to view their dark past so they can have a brighter future. I visited relatives recently and when they talked about the government they still lowered their voice in a whisper. It should never be that way.
Richard Peregrin, Olympia, Washington, USA
[11/22/2004]
Cyn @ 145 OOOOOH OOOOOH Goldy DID YOU READ IT? OOOOH I thought you were gonna stop this crap! WAAAAHHHH!!!
Mr. Cynical @ 139
“You are really on a roll dude. Defending the 11 year-old, politically timed tirades of a crazed Battle Ax who hates her son is quite an undertaking for you. Why not discuss Sims performance as Executive??? How about that Election Dept.!!”
I have been very happy with the job Sims is doing as KC Exec. The election department is doing fine (as assessed by their error rate compared to the error rate of other counties, and the error rate of other closely scrutinized elections), and improving thanks to the problems we have discovered (statewide) in an extraordinarily close election.
One of the things I like about Sims is his honesty. One of the things I dislike about David Irons Jr. is his apparent problem with truthfulness. He “sexes-up” his resume. He lies about hitting his mother. From Goldy’s original story:
And, finally, I believe his temper problem would make it difficult for him to effectively manage a huge organization like King County.
In 2003, David Irons Jr., in response to the stories of him hitting his mother, asked the questions, “How do you disprove something that’s not accurate? How do you disprove something that’s a fabrication?”
Well, one way is to give a lie detector test to the person making the claims (done!). The other way would be for Dave Jr. to take a lie detector test. Maybe you can encourage him to do so, Mr. Cynical.
Oh, and uh Seig Heil
Is this also the Polygraph Guy?????
Polygraph Testimony
Richard Peregrin, who administered Patsy Jones’ initial polygraph test in conjunction with Comte’s psychological evaluation, testified that the polygraph showed Patsy Jones was being deceptive in response to questions regarding sexual touching of KR. Dr. Clifford referred Patsy Jones to John Ketchum for a second opinion.
Ketchum administered three polygraph examinations. He testified that the results of his first examination showed a passing response (i.e., no deception) to a question regarding whether Jones spread open KR’s vagina for pleasure. He also noted an inconclusive response to whether she spread open KR’s vagina for hygienic purposes. In the third polygraph examination, in response to questions regarding whether she ever spread open or penetrated KR’s vagina for pleasure, Jones’ denials showed no deception.
Interesting they requested a 2nd opinion that clearly contradicted Peregrin, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
fire_one @146
There is no way the Republicans could accidentally get this many MORONS elected and appointed and running for office (or up for appointment).
So, you think Irons will be:
1)elected
2)appointed
3)relaxed
4)all of the above
The same people pop up in each thread, this strikes me as intelligent design, not a random sequence of events, are you guys for real, is Goldy writing all these comments, or most of it, tagging on names–are Roger Rabbit and Mr Cynical the same guy? There is an implication that these comments evolve–impossible, someone or something is behind this blog. Compare horsesasss.org to something that is an accident without intelligent design (like the Bush administration), see?
Mr. Cynical @ 139
My post is in purgatory. Look for it soon.
So Mrs Irons doesn’t want her son to be King County Exec, but she won’t bring charges. She says he is a danger, but won’t take proper steps to ensure he is prevented from being in office. She says he is violent and afraid of him, and yet parades herself in front of a camera and microphone smearing his character.
Let’s the police figure it out. Or at least an independent investigator. A polygraph guy that she hired is suspect at best. Her daughter who lives in a house that Mom owns, and works at a job that Mom controls, is also unreliable. Why would Di argue with a nut case that is her mother? Now that is scary!
Mr. Cynical @150
That was fabulously funny!
Mr. Cynical @ 150,
That’s what happens when you administer 13,000 polygraph tests….
On the other hand, a polygrapher with a bad reputation probably wouldn’t last too long.
M&M …. RUNNING for office, of course. (LOSING, obviously) Sorry to hear about your reading disability….
The question for you is: You like to :
a) beat your mom
b) strike your mom
c) call your mom a liar
d) all of the above
Is this our Polygraph Guy—
“Indeed, the testimony of the Guild’s own expert witness, Mr. Peregrin, made it clear that the Deputy’s having passed the test was no assurance that he had not been involved in the fraudulent activity in question.”
Peregrin said that even though his client’s guy passed the polygraph, was no assurance he wasn’t guilty.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm………….
dj….how in the world are you going to defend the polygraph when the Polygraph Guy himself has said passing the test is no assurance???????????????
Give up the ghost dude!
By the way, have you seen that new program called “Commander And Chief” with Geena Davis as President? Now the White House has an ovarian office! Badabing! I don’t know about you but I could never vote for a President that was bent over a car at a country bar in “Thelma and Louise”!
—Larry the Cable Guy
fire_one (oops) Marky Mark
M&M …. RUNNING for office, of course. (LOSING, obviously) Sorry to hear about your reading disability….
The question for you is: You like to :
a) beat your mom
b) strike your mom
c) call your mom a liar
d) all of the above
It seems you limited the answers. Perhaps you should have asked:
I like to:
a)ask stupid questions
b)do stupid things
c)be stupid for the sake of being stupid
d)cover stupidity by acting stupid (or at least symmetrically foolish)…
Here’s something weird… Ya ever do this? Ya take a poop and wipe and before ya flush it hits ya again so ya poop on top of the last one and then ya wipe and it hits ya again and poop and wipe and the next thing ya know you’ve made a poop lasagna! Ok maybe that just me.
What did Rosie O’Donnall get on her SAT test in high school? Mustard!
—Larry
Ok. Here is where is stand now.
Previously, Irons’ mother said she was assaulted.
David Irons denied it. Therefore, it was a she said he said dynamic. Your believed whoever seemed more credible.
However, with Ms. Irons now having taken and passed the polygraph test this has changed.
Ms. Irons took the polygraph test from Evergreen Polygraph with Richard Peregrin conducting the test, someone with 26 years of experience as a Wahington State Trooper Detective and 13,000 polygraphs examinations this has changed. (Read his resume)
Mr. Peregrin’s credentials are extremely strong and he has a half dozen certifications and is even on the NPEA Polygraph Legislative Committee.
The fact is that many branches of the federal government rely on the polygraph test and believe in its accuracy.
If Irons refuses to take a polygraph test at this point, few are going to believe his denials about assaulting his mother.
fire_one @ 146
Great Post, first you lie about what I said and then you move on to name calling. Do you think that makes a convincing argument? Don’t you wonder even a little bit about inconsistencies in the story? Any idea why 14 of Irons Aunts, Uncles and Cousins support him? Could it have anything to do with their past personal experiences with David’s Mother? Sorry for expecting you to think again, my mistake.
I am sorry Mountain Man, but I did not lie about what you said. As I said, the only thing I can figure out is that you WANT incompetent boobs running for office. It is often hard to make people understand inflection on a blog… I am trying to say: I believe this is what you want. I can not, obviously read your mind, it is what I am inferring from your posts. Now, I ask, is this true? Do you in fact really support all these Republican dumb asses: Bush, Cheney, Rove, Scooter, Irons, etc etc ?
Or do they just make you feel superior?
Cynical Idiot at @58, of course you would not know him. He does not work for or fix BIAW stupidities like yourself!!!! LMAO@U Siempre
Mount the Man —- Uncles, cousins, and aunts aside, this is his MOTHER! My god man, she took a lie detector test! What do YOU need to convince you?
All we have to do is get Sims to agree to a lie detector test on Dori’s show then Irons will have no choice but to go along as well. Sims has nothing to hide so he will surely agree to do this.
Goldy, get Sims on the phone, use the private number and make it happen.
Mr Cynical @ 160
I don’t know the context, but it sounds like a standard disclaimer. Apparently, you didn’t realize that polygraph tests are not 100% accurate.
On the other hand, we have lots of evidence that Mrs. Iron’s story is true–the polygraph test nails that evidence.
The only evidence against her claim is the word of Junior. Please, Mr. Cynical, please, for the sake of our county, PLEASE convince Junior to take the test!
Marky Mark,
These fucking apologists for a lyin’ motherbeater are so whacked out, if Junior himself beat them up, they would claim it was an evil twin that did it.
And then they would blame Mrs. Irons for having the evil twin and not telling anybody.
Hey Goldy, why don’t you see if we can get Brett Bader to take a polygraph test regarding some of the statements he has made on the I-912 debate??
dj—@170
The context was Mr. Peregrin was the Polygraph Tester and expert witness in a Police Officer termination case.
Peregrin himself….YOUR EXPERT…refuted HIMSELF!! aThese were the findings & conclusions!!!!!!!!!!
“Indeed, the testimony of the Guild’s own expert witness, Mr. Peregrin, made it clear that the Deputy’s having passed the test was no assurance that he had not been involved in the fraudulent activity in question.”
Do a simple Google search dj. Not much on such a FAMOUS and EXPERIENCED Polygrapher, is there.
I would never suggest anyone take a polygraph….too unreliable & easily manipulated. This one is politics at it’s worst.
I’m sure Mr. Peregrin’s resume will be scrutinized……something you ought to consider doing dj before putting your pee-pee on the chopping block@!
Marks “I am perfectly in-sync with my humanity”
First sign of a psycopath is the uncalled for claim that they are “normal”
Mr Irrelivant 174 “something you ought to consider doing before putting your pee-pee on the chopping block@!”
That is one thing you never have to worry about Mr. I. One needs to have a pee-pee to have that be worrisome.
Ms. Irons took the polygraph test from Evergreen Polygraph with Richard Peregrin conducting the test, someone with 26 years of experience as a Wahington State Trooper Detective and 13,000 polygraphs examinations this has changed. (Read his resume)
Mr. Peregrin’s credentials are extremely strong and he has a half dozen certifications and is even on the NPEA Polygraph Legislative Committee.
Which is exactly why I believe him when he says that “[passing] the test was no assurance.”
This thread proves righty trolls will believe any crap that justifies their sick, twisted agenda — they’ll vote for a raging lunatic who beats his own mother if it furthers the cause of turning America into a fascist state.
GOP = Party of UFO, Bigfoot, and D.B. Cooper believers
What the rabbit said.
BTW, Michael @ 77 – no one ever disputed the facts in the Rathergate story, just the provenance of one particular document
(you know, the one that was ultimately discredited by a secretary that said the substance was true but that she
hadn’t typed that particular letter).
Spin away, bitches. Shrubco is at 37% and falling, and mommythumper is going down with him.
Speaking of UFOs has anyone heard anything about those diebold voting machines in Ohio. Is it true that the count from Sesame street had something to do with it. One vote for bush…tow vote for bush… three vote for bush
haahhahahahahahaahhahahahahahaahhahahahahahaahhahahahaha
179
Yup, that’s exactly how it happened, except this time they were smart enough to give themselves some insurance by throwing in an extra 120,000 votes, so they wouldn’t get caught short like they almost did in Florida. Ken Blackwell is smarter than Jeb Bush.
Hey you fucking trolls, if you can bitch about Dean Logan counting King County’s votes, then we have just as might right to bitch about Diebold counting Ohio’s votes — so go fuck yourselves! Fuck you! And fuck the aramdillo you rode in on, too!
Why should Republicans be the only people allowed to bitch about elections? Why can’t liberals bitch about elections, too? Goddam Republicans want a fucking monopoly on everything.
Mr. Cynical @ 173
“I would never suggest anyone take a polygraph….too unreliable & easily manipulated. This one is politics at it’s worst.”
Well, Mr. C. what can I say, except that once again you show that you are a FUCKING IDIOT!
Everyone who knows anything at all about polygraph tests knows that the tests are not perfect. But, they are more reliable in some circumstances.
In particular, when they are used to check the truth of specific incidences they are quite reliable. When they are used for general screening (trying to screen applicants for some past undesirable behavior, or fishing for participation in fraud), they have a much lower success. rate.
In 2003, the National Academy of Sciences was commissioned by congress to study and evaluate the reliability of polygraph tests for employee screening. Here are the conclusions:
So, Mr. Cynical, you took the words from testimony about a screening investigation, and are trying to apply it to a “specific-incident” test. YOU ARE A FUCKING RIGHTIST PINHEAD MORON!
“I’m sure Mr. Peregrin’s resume will be scrutinized……something you ought to consider doing dj before putting your pee-pee on the chopping block@!”
LOL … his credentials have, no doubt, been scrutinized every time his work is used in court. With 13,000 tests administered, you can bet that he has been “gone over” in far more detail than you are capable of doing.
So, Mr. Cynical are you planning on sticking with your “upstanding candidate” who beats his mother and lies about it?
Spin away, bitches. Shrubco is at 37% and falling
Yeah, it is sad, his approval rating is almost as low as Gregoire and Sims.
A Quantitative Review of the Guilty Knowledge Test
Journal of Applied Psychology
Volume 86, Issue 4 , August 2001, Pages 674-683
Polygraphs are about 76% accurate.
————————————————
Psychopathy, Threat, and Polygraph Test Accuracy
Journal of Applied Psychology
Volume 74, Issue 2 , April 1989, Pages 347-355
Tests show that 87% of guilty people are identified as guilty, but only 56% of innocent people are identified as innocent.
Michael,
Let’s see. There are hundreds of studies on polygraph sensitivity and specificity. The best of the studies are used in a metaanalysis in the National Academy of Science paper that I cited earlier.
You pick a couple of small, odd studies. The second study is based on prisoners with an extrinsic threat added on. Here is the abstract:
Try finding some more relevant and higher quality studies, bozo.
gary ridgeway passed several polygraphs
hapless liberal–
Excellent point.
Polygraphs have been used more as a lawyers tool to cast doubt or guilt upon an opponent. The reliability is highly suspect.
dj keeps praising Mr. Peregrin as something of a leading Polygraph Expert. But when it comes down to it, even Mr. Peregrin ADMITS it is very unreliable and his own results have been contested by other polygraphs REPEATEDLY.
The Polygraph Test Industry has been glamorized by the Maury Povich/Jerry Springer TV smut….sensationalism.
dj would rather discuss this than the most recent developments in Ron Sims KingCo Elections, the impact of CAO on rural property owners, and Sims complete lack of leadership in the KingCo Transportation crisis…..you know, things that really matter.
You will not EVER see a thread here before the November 8th discussing any of the MANY issues Sims is vulnerable on.
Fortunately, it doesn’t matter because everyone who posts and reads this blog already knows who they will vote for with PERHAPS one exception (although I don’t know who that is)!
The reality is dj has not changed a single vote….although perhaps in his mind he has.
This is a purely partisan LEFTIST PINHEAD Blog with a few of us calling bullshit on the knuckleheads. That’s it.
Goldy is a self-absorbed smut peddlar and Sims butt-boy…perhaps in more ways than one!. That’s all–
Well, from the point of view of this here “liberal pin-head” (and damn well proud of it), I don’t see why Ron Sims should feel obligated to take a polygraph test. The dispute here, really, is between David Irons and his mother. We’re not dealing with a question of Sims’ character, and he’s certainly not a criminal (except for those who consider it a felony to be a Democrat).
Personally, I think Sims is doomed for not getting rid of Dean Logan long ago. Unfortunately, the issues now raised regarding Irons, his less-than-stellar resume and questions about his self-control and judgement may do nothing more than serve as a warning to fasten out seat belts for a very bumpy ride after he takes office.
Comment by Roger Rabbit— 10/27/05 @ 11:37 pm
“Hey you f******g trolls, if you can bitch about Dean Logan counting King County’s votes, then we have just as might right to bitch about Diebold counting Ohio’s votes – so go f**k yourselves! ” (expletives deleted)
With KCRE there was clearly something awry. Even the trial judge in the election contest agreed. With the Diebold machines in Ohio all you have (as usual) is innuendo and wild theories. So there’s a big difference between complaining about KCRE and the Diebold machines in Ohio. If you can provide some facts, instead of innuendo and profanity, then you might actually have a case. I would this would be second nature to you, since you claim you were an attorney before you retired.
@189 We’re not dealing with a question of Sims’ character, and he’s certainly not a criminal
Even if you believe there was no original crime during election 2004, the crime was in the coverup. I’m sure you believe that Rove and Libby are guilty, even though the special prosecutor has already announced that there was no original crime regarding the release of Valerie Plame’s identity, that the only possible crimes are that Rove and/or Libby contradicted their own or each others’ story at some point in the testimony. That sounds alot like the coverup at KCE.
man…
GOP paychecks must’ve gone out.
I thought they’d quit paying for trolls for a while!
windie-192
The higher ROI would be to pay the lefties here, as the typical knee-jerk reactions and conspiricy theories of several HAers who contribute drive Joe six-pack towards the right.
re 191: The whole investigation was brought about at the request of the CIA. If they thought that there was no outing and that Plame was not undercover, then why did they make that charge? I’ll bet you righties have a few “conspiracy” theories about that!
The Democrats, I suppose, are trying to politicize treason? Is that what you extreme righties think?
Michael @ 191
“Even if you believe there was no original crime during election 2004, the crime was in the coverup. “
You’re so right, Michael. The real crime was that Sims and Logan covered up crimes that never existed.
What a fucking dipshit!
Hey, maybe if we put a pathological liar in office he will be able to uncover and expose the non-crimes!
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ay06m.html
“Ridgway came to the attention of police in 1983 because his pickup resembled one connected with one of the disappearances. In 1984, he took and passed a polygraph test.”
You’re so right, Michael. The real crime was that Sims and Logan covered up crimes that never existed.
So they should be indicted, just like Libby?
Hey, maybe if we put a pathological liar in office he will be able to uncover and expose the non-crimes!
A pathological liar, like someone who could pass a lie detector test even while lieing?
http://www.soundpolitics.com/a.....tml#005231
READ. SHUT THE F–K UP.
DAVID IRONS FOR KING COUNTY EXECUTIVE: YOU CAN’T AFFORD ANYBODY ELSE!
@72:
I get your point exactly. LET”S SEE IT THEN! Until it is actually done, I dismiss you, your thick-skull, your naive assumptions, and your unfactual speculations.
@72:
And that’s cowardly, chicken-shit negative campaigning. Shame, shame. Guess there’s not all halos here after all. Who woulda thunk it? Tree-hugging Dems. are all Angels I thought.
@199:
I was referring to the Ronnie Sims side of things, not Goldy’s.
Josef @198:
Um, Ridgeway was a psychopath, so your rebuttal argument is that the candidate’s Mom is a psychopath. But, regardless of the parent’s opposing political affiliation, mental illness runs in families, so that argument is kind of counter productive, doncha think?
Yes, clearly anyone who has anyone with any abnormalty in their bloodline should be banned from public office.
Mr. Irons can not be trusted. I learned this first hand a few years ago when he was on the school board. A critical point was brought up to Mr. Irons regarding asbestos removel as several schools while the children were on site. Among a few other safety issues. He dismissed it and blamed the parents. He yelled at a person in the audience to sit down when she stood and clapped her hands. He said, “Sit down we dont do that here.” Here is the kicker the minutes were CHANGED, yes what the speakers said was different than what was reported. He can not be trusted. And by the way this is just a snapshot of what some of us parents went through here in Issaquah…..
Gee, with so many winners in the repub party coming to light, whats a good christian to do?
Mother beaters
Liars
Murders
Thiefs
So, i’m gonna ask my pastor how these fit into a christian lifestyle, how about the rest of you self appointed “righties” do the same. I know the answer…do you?
@205 I just have 3 words, Ted “Swimmer” Kennedy.
Michael: Two more words, Mena, Arkansas
why are polygrapsh not admissable in court? they are offered as “scientific” evidence, the test must be performed properly and the test (procedure) must be accepted by the relevant “scientific community” (this is the
Frye test), for the polygraph, the community is psychologists, they have taken the position that the polygraph is not reliable (this is no surprise, they don’t use it, that is make money off it). But polygraphs have improved,
enough to become acceptable is the question–the most recent case is out of New Mexico, that state does use Frye, and acceptance by the community is only one consideration, New Mexico admitted the test results in a criminal trial
The other problem,= at least in our state, is the polygraphist gets to testify on the ultimate question is the witness (who took the test)telling the truth–the really say they found no deception (a double negative)
Also The New Mexico court could not find thae test was reliable but they could also find it was not reliable, that covers the bases, a split decision
206 & 207
I have got one how bout Robert “Sheets” Byrd.
good one