Win-win-win: Gov. Gregoire proposes cutting workers’ comp premiums

Washington businesses will save $89 million next year due to lower unemployment and workers’ compensation premiums approved this year by Gov. Chris Gregoire and the state legislature. Now Gov. Gregoire is proposing a six-month suspension of a portion of workers’ compensation premiums that could save employers and workers an additional $315 million.

The rate reductions and suspensions are made possible by higher than expected investment earnings on premiums, and L&I’s success at controlling health care costs. Workers have also filed fewer workplace injury claims.

This is great news for both employers and workers. A typical building contractor employing 25 full-time workers would save about $22,000 over the six-month suspension, a vegetable farmer with a similar sized work force about $5,300. And workers who have premiums deducted from their paycheck will also see substantial savings: $267 for an agricultural worker, $378 for food processing and manufacturing, $153 per health care worker.

You’d think such a win-win proposal would elicit cheers from business groups like, say, the Building Industry Association of Washington (BIAW), but so far… crickets. One reason for their silence I suppose is that when state government actually works efficiently and saves their members money, well, they lose their favorite rhetorical stalking horse. Another reason, just perhaps, is that these lower workers’ comp premiums actually cost the BIAW money.

See, the pro-business/anti-government BIAW earns most of its money managing a workers’ comp “retro rebate” program, in which it pools members premiums to spread out risk, and then earns a rebate from the state for filing fewer claims than anticipated. BIAW members get this money back, minus the twenty-percent the BIAW skims off the top to support its “operations”… operations which mostly consist of spending millions of dollars supporting right-wing judges, politicians and initiatives.

But if due to greater efficiency on the part of the state, businesses and workers pay lower premiums going in, they’ll get lower rebates coming back, and that means the BIAW will have lower revenues. And thus, less money to spend on politics.

I’d call that a win-win-win.

Comments

  1. 1

    YOS LIB BRO spews:

    CAN’T WAIT HEAR THE SOUNDS OF THE WAILING AND HAIR-TEARING AT THE BIAW’S BLOG – (UN)SP.

  2. 3

    Libertarian spews:

    L&I works on the insurance principal, spreading risk over a large pool and managing & investing to meet expected pay-outs. If they’ve done better than expected on investment earnings and controlling costs, premiums can safely be reduced. Hopefully they’ve taken a very hard look at this to make certain they’re correct.

  3. 4

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The Legislature should act NOW to stop the BIAW’s 20% skimming, or at least reduce their take, to stop the practice of using tax money intended for injured workers to fund anti-worker political campaigns.

  4. 5

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @2: Let us hope the battle for WSGOP chair is a bloody one! Man it’s FUN to watch Republicans EAT EACH OTHER!!

  5. 6

    spews:

    [snark]

    Oooooh that Gregoire is so obviously trying to look like a pragmatic centrist that runs a tight ship, instead of the horrible liberal, tax-and-spend governor by theft she is.

  6. 7

    My Left Foot spews:

    I miss JCH, Janet S, AmericaFirst and Proudofherfatlyingcheatingthreateningass.

    It is amazing that when America speaks they no longer want to listen. We put up with them here for God only knows how long. Now that the tables have turned, and most likely will turn just a little further in the next general election, nary a peep from them.

    Funny how that works.

  7. 8

    RightEqualsStupid spews:

    No matter what Chris does, the child molesting, inbred right wing traitors will attack her. Who cares what they think? They’ve been marginalized. They are completely irrelevant. They had their asses kicked. We have damn near a super majority in the legislature. I say fuck em. We can do pretty much what we want and if they don’t like it, they can go to fucking Alabama or Mississippi or some other fucked up theocratic third-world country.

    Well done Chris.

  8. 9

    sgmmac spews:

    Roger,

    Would you support the same for the unions who skim moeny from all of their members and then spend millions for political campaigns?

  9. 10

    RightEqualsStupid spews:

    Anyone notice how all the right wing talking heads on TV are infighting? Must be all that inbreeding. They are all going nuts because of the Iraq Study Group. Normally, asswipes like Handjob Hannity would start calling the Dems commies at this point but oops! There are five republicans on that group too. Now what? What to do what to do? The usual playbook won’t work so they are reduced to fighting among themselves. Makes me laugh!

  10. 11

    Particle Man spews:

    Cutting the rebate to 10% or as Richard Pope posted over on NY Progressive blog, just reducing the rate alltogether after setting up a resurve fund may do the trick.

  11. 12

    Right Stuff spews:

    Since when do we do cartwheels for govt doing what it’s supposed to do and return to tax payers their own money?

  12. 13

    Right Stuff spews:

    @10
    The ISG is a “study group” who issued a report based on information that they were able to gather. Yea they made a report. Since when did they become “the last word” on Iraq, and our policy there?
    If you ask me, they just put into words what we all know is happening. We aren’t leaving Iraq for a long time. No matter how many “study groups” issue reports.

  13. 14

    ted bessell spews:

    re 9: That is such a lame and stupid argument. We’ve been over it here 100 times. You know you are mis-representing this thing — you lying piece of crap.

  14. 15

    RightEqualsStupid spews:

    Yeah let’s just ignore the Iraq Study Group and stick with the AWOL President’s plan – that’s been working so well right?

  15. 16

    ted bessell spews:

    re 13: Maybe it’s time to be honest about why we are there in the first place. O to the I to the big L.

  16. 18

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    9 sgmmac says: Roger, Would you support the same for the unions who skim moeny from all of their members and then spend millions for political campaigns? 12/07/2006 at 4:52 pm

    No. Why should I, when you guys refuse to admit that Bush insulted the troops by calling a soldier in Iraq “boy?”

  17. 20

    klake spews:

    Letter written by Dr. Bill Frist and what he said on the floor of the United States Senate, which is a different view of a man that you chaps paint in this blog.
    This afternoon I delivered the following farewell address on the floor of the United States Senate. I thought you might like to see it:
    “About two months ago, on a late Sunday afternoon when no one was around, I slipped into this chamber to carry out a time honored tradition, nearly as old as this institution itself.
    “I sat down at this desk, and I opened the drawer to carve my name where previous senate leaders had left theirs: Robert Taft, Hugh Scott, Everett Dirkson, Howard Baker . Your name carved deeply into the bottom of the oak drawer is the only thing permanent that one leaves around this place.
    “And it confronted me then-as it hits me with such force today-that our time here is temporary. We are here to occupy a seat for a time, not to possess it, never to own it.
    “It is with that recognition-that I address you today.
    “I’ve reflected often these last few weeks.
    “I think back to the non-politician who came to this city and this body 12 years ago, with a lot of hope for the people of his home state, and a lot of hope for the future of this country.
    “I think back to the people who put their trust in that man’s hands.
    “Indeed, it was 12 years ago that I came to Washington. I came as a citizen legislator with absolutely no prior political experience. I was a doctor. I’d spent 20 years in a healing profession. In my acceptance speech, I pledged to my fellow Tennesseans that Karyn and I’d go to Washington for 12 years, for a limited period of time, with a mission to accomplish and then come back home to Tennessee.
    “And that’s exactly what we’ll do. Karyn and I will return to Tennessee, return home and live in the same house I was born in 54 years ago.
    “I still remember coming to the Hill for the first time 12 years ago. I was green. My first chief of staff Mark Tipps – just as green as I was — likes to remind me of our very first day on the Hill, when we had to stop someone to ask: “Where is that place called the Russell building?”
    “But I believed deeply in the promise that I’d made. I believed-in my heart-that with determination, one person can make a difference.
    “Today I look back and see that I was half-right. Each of us can make a difference. But to make a difference one can’t really do it alone. I could not do it without the many people who have stood behind and with me over these last 12 years.
    “Karyn has honored me by her unwavering love each step along the way. Her grace in carrying out our official responsibilities, her commitment to the character of our three boys, her moral and spiritual support to me and our family — Karyn has been the guiding river of our lives as we’ve traveled through two entirely different careers, heart surgery and politics.
    “Bryan, Jonathan, and Harrison — we’re so proud of each of you. You have faced the challenges of growing up in public life — with media taking its swipes — with strength and dignity. You know Tennessee is home, but you’ve taken in the rich experiences that Washington has afforded. You have grown from three young boys to three young men.
    “I thank the staff members who’ve been with me since the very beginning-Emily Reynolds, Ramona Lessen, Bart VerHulst, Cornell Wedge. I thank my series of chiefs of staff: Mark Tipps, Lee Rawls, Howard Liebengood, Eric Ueland, Andrea Becker, Bart and Emily. And all those who have come in and out of these doors since our very first day in the basement of Dirksen as the 100th Senator in seniority.
    “You’ve put the needs of this country before your own. And with a lot of hard work, a lot of heart, and a lot of hope, you’ve accomplished so much.
    “A few moments will always stand out in my mind. Victories like the $15 billion funding for global HIV-AIDS. Prescription drugs for seniors. Confirming John Roberts and Sam Alito to the Supreme Court.
    “And through it all we’ve borne witness to days that have changed the face of our nation. The Capitol shootings. September 11. Anthrax and ricin. Katrina.
    “But through it all, we kept at it the best way we could: with hard work, with heart, with a lot of hope.
    “I thank my colleagues who placed their faith in me to serve as their leader. As I said four Decembers ago when you elected me, it was-and it has been every day since-a humbling experience. On that day, I quoted Proverbs, “In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps.” And what fulfilling steps you have given me.
    “I could not let today pass without expressing my gratitude for the close friendships who shaped my time in the Senate – Howard Baker, the great Republican Leader from Tennessee, whose shoes as Majority Leader I’ve done my best to fill. He counseled me as I considered a run for public office. His sage advice I have relied upon many times in my capacity as a Senator and Leader.
    “Pete Domenici, who became a mentor to me on that first day in January 1995. Senators like John Warner, who we saw in action yesterday, and former senators like Don Nickles, who so wisely set the stage for the successful tax cuts we have accomplished over the past 5 years.
    “Mitch McConnell whose wisdom and service has been indispensable to leading the Republican majority. And who ascends in party leadership. By temperament and skill, no one is better prepared.
    “And my Tennessee colleagues Fred Thompson and Lamar Alexander, two great statesman with whom I’ve had the honor to work side by side to address the needs of the state of Tennessee.
    “I thank the two democratic leaders Tom Daschle and Harry Reid. Everyone sees the public contrasts between Harry and me, what emerges as we represent our respective parties. What people don’t see are the daily, private conversations off the floor, where views are respected, burdens shared and family discussed. Karyn and I leave this body with deep respect for Harry and Landra and their contributions to this country.
    “And to all my colleagues who have reached across the aisle and across differences when you could, thank you.
    “12 years ago..the people of Tennessee took a great chance. They took a chance on a little known doctor who had never held public office, who had never run for public office. They began by opening their minds, and then their homes, then their lives and their hearts. And I’m eternally grateful to them for giving me that trust and taking that chance.
    “‘It is,’ my Dad used to day, ‘a powerful thing to know where you are going in life, but it is equally powerful to know where you have come from.’
    “To the good people of Tennessee, I thank you for never letting me forget where I’ve come from. You’ve never let me forget those promises made on the trail over a decade ago.the promises that have been at the heart of everything we’ve done.
    “Yours are the voices that have called out to me from Mountain City to Memphis. The people who are out there working, day-in and day-out to take care of a family, to grow a business, to run a farm, to get ahead.
    “I will never forget the young mother from Mountain City.whose words spoke to me early on. I had gone to meet with some local business leaders after the closing of the Levi Strauss Factory. I arrived at the meeting spot in Mountain City, and there at the table was a young woman wearing jeans and a t-shirt. I turned to her, and I asked her to tell us her name and why she had come. She stood up; she turned to me and said, “I just lost my job at the factory. I have a family to feed. And I’m here to see how you can help.
    “As long as I live, I will not forget those voices of clarity and commonsense that called out and counseled me time and again.
    “And I will never forget the many patients who met me on the trail in the very beginning, and have continued the journey with me over the years. Owen Barber, Vivian Reeves, Jimmy Moore, Shane Blalock. You taught me that the power in all relationships is trust. You taught me to listen. And that trust and that listening is something I have tried to preserve here in my service in the Senate.
    “The two people who won’t hear me thank them today directly are two who were here at my swearing in but who have since passed on. — my parents Dorothy and Tommy Frist. They left a great legacy of honesty, civility, fairness, hard work, and service. They passed that legacy to my own brothers and sisters, Mary, Bobby, Dottie, and Tommy, who all in their own way with their children and grandchildren live lives in service to others.
    “I’ve spent a lot of time these past few weeks reflecting.but I’ve also spent a great deal of time thinking about the future of this institution.
    “As I prepare to leave here and return to my home, many people have asked me if I regret the promise I made to serve two terms.
    “‘If you knew then, what you know today, would you’ve made that promise?’ they ask.
    “And my answer is ‘yes.’
    “I believe today, as I believed when I came here, in the ideal of a citizen legislator. And bittersweet though it might seem today-it is right.
    “I hope that my service, that the example of someone who had never served before, spent his life pursuing another profession, coming here and rising from 100 in seniority to Majority Leader, the example of a committed doctor who has been able to find purpose and fulfillment in serving others through public service – through elected office will inspire others to seek office. And those that come to serve after me as true citizen legislators will bring fresh perspective and new ideas that will in ways small and large make this country and this institution better.
    “And you’ve heard me talk about-even champion-term limits.
    “Today, self-imposed term limits are the extreme exception-not the practice in this city. As a consequence, we are moving toward a body with a two-year vision, governing for the next election – rather than a body with a 20-year vision, governing for the future. As we consider the future of this institution, I urge that we ask ourselves what it is our forefathers envisioned. Is today’s reality what they foresaw?
    “I urge that we also consider what our work in this Chamber is really all about.
    “Is it about keeping the Majority? Is it about Red States versus Blue States? Is it about lobbing attacks across the aisle? Is it about war rooms whose purpose is not to contrast ideas but to destroy. Or is it more?
    “When the Constitutional Convention met in 1787, delegates considered how best to structure the Legislative Branch of America’s new government. And they were determined not to repeat the mistakes of the Articles of Confederation, which had a unicameral legislature.
    “Speaking to the Convention, Virginia’s James Madison set forth the reasons to have a Senate:
    “‘In order to judge the form to be given to this institution, it will be proper to take a view of the ends to be served by it. These were, first, to protect the people against their rulers; secondly, to protect the people against transient impressions into which they themselves might be led.’
    “Let us remember this vision of the Senate-that the Framers established the Senate to protect people from their rulers, and as a check on the House and on the passions of the electorate. And let us not allow the passions of the electorate be reflected as destructive partisanship on the floor.
    “Taking the oath of office commits each Senator to respect and revere the Framers’ dream.
    “To my successor, Bob Corker, and to all the Senators who will follow me in service to this great nation: I urge you to be bold, to make the most of your time here, look at problems with fresh eyes and steely determination, and give the American people a reason to believe in you and to hope for a better tomorrow.
    “To serve in this grand institution has been a labor of love. And to lead here has been a challenging responsibility and a profound honor.
    “In closing, let me leave my colleagues with an image.
    “It happened in Sudan. It was late at night on the last day of my visit. We had just finished the last operation, when a message came that a man I had met the day before wanted to see me, ‘the American doctor.’
    “I was tired, but I walked into the one-room building where he was recovering. He was huddled in the corner in a bed, and in the darkness I could barely see him, until I saw his smile-piercing through the shadows.
    “I asked him what I could do for him.
    “He told me that two years ago his wife and his two children had been murdered in the war. Eight days ago, he said, ‘I lost my leg and hand to a land mine.’
    “He thanked me for being there, and I nodded, I get thanked all the time for being a doctor.
    “Then getting impatient for me to understand, he lifted his bandaged arm-the fingers he had lost fighting for his freedom–he replied, “Everything I’ve lost-my family, my leg, my hand-will be worth the sacrifice if my people can someday have what America represents: freedom.”
    “‘Thank you,’ he said, ‘not for being a doctor, but for being an American.’
    “To me, that image cuts through to what our work is all about. It is about preserving as best we can that great hope that is America. The freedom, the opportunity, the compassion, the basic decency that lie at the heart of who we are as Americans.
    “Beyond Democrat or Republican, we are American. And it is our responsibility to uphold the dream and protect that hope.for every American.and for all who seek freedom.
    “I began my remarks with the acknowledgment that our time is temporary. And I know that pertains to attention spans as well.
    “So let me close.
    “As I have spent a lifetime learning, ‘To everything there is a season.’
    “And today my season in the Senate draws to a close.
    “Tomorrow is a time for new rhythms.
    “My dad ended a letter he wrote to the great great grandchildren he’d never see shortly before he died: his words:
    “‘The world is always changing, and that’s a good thing. It’s how you carry yourself in the world that doesn’t change – morality, integrity, warmth and kindness are the same things in 1910 when I was born or in 2010 or later when you will be reading this. And that’s a good thing, too. Love, Granddaddy’
    “And under the dome, it is a time for fresh faces and fresh resolve. Change is good. Change is constructive.
    “The Senate changes, the people who serve change, but what doesn’t change is that every one of us who serves believes deeply in the genius of the American democracy.
    “So, it is with the deepest appreciation that Karyn and I thank you all for 12 wonderful years.
    “There are no words to describe the honor it has been.”

    It would be interesting to see what you all could accomplish if you walk in his shoes.

  18. 21

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    12 Right Stuff says: Since when do we do cartwheels for govt doing what it’s supposed to do and return to tax payers their own money? 12/07/2006 at 5:48 pm

    Government returns your money to you every time you drive on a public street; buy goods that have been transported by ship, plane, or truck; go to a public park; call the police or fire department; use a public library; send your child to a public school or college; or buy a product based on government-funded research, which includes nearly every product on the market; etc.

  19. 23

    klake spews:

    Roger Rabbit says:
    12 Right Stuff says: Since when do we do cartwheels for govt doing what it’s supposed to do and return to tax payers their own money? 12/07/2006 at 5:48 pm
    Government returns your money to you every time you drive on a public street; buy goods that have been transported by ship, plane, or truck; go to a public park; call the police or fire department; use a public library; send your child to a public school or college; or buy a product based on government-funded research, which includes nearly every product on the market; etc
    Hey Thumper the government is to govern not run business (liquor stores, power companies, and toll highways) and maintain large payrolls just to keep bums like you off the streets. When will the state retirement funds run dry and government works stand in soup lines? Yep Rabbit look to the government to solve all your problems. Be great be a Socialist Democrat awaiting for hand outs.

  20. 24

    sgmmac spews:

    Roger,

    I am not sure that he meant to. Bush is one of those good ole country “boys.” Listen to the way he talks, he is definitely from Texas, complete with swagger……

  21. 26

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Flaky klake @23: Hey Thumper the government is to govern not run business (liquor stores, power companies, and toll highways) … 12/07/2006 at 7:03 pm

    Go buy your electricity from a private power company if you want to. I prefer to get mine from City Light.

  22. 27

    My Left Foot spews:

    Klake @ 20

    Nice words from a blind trust manipulating, lying, thieving, inside trading, Republican thug.

    Thanks for nothing, Klake. Actions speak far louder than words.

  23. 28

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Flaky klake @23: Let’s suppose we give up the state’s monopoly on liquor sales and let private individuals take those profits. Which taxes do you want to raise to make up for the lost state revenues?

  24. 29

    Former Voter spews:

    sgmmac says:

    Roger,

    Would you support the same for the unions who skim moeny from all of their members and then spend millions for political campaigns?

    What rubbish. Private sector employees in non-Right To Work States (like WA) can exercise their Beck Rights, become union ‘nonmembers’ and pay an ‘agency fee’ – only those costs associated with collective bargaining, contract administration, and grievance adjustment with the employer. Teachers in our public schools may do the same. No one in a union is forced to support any political agenda. Nobody is ‘skimmed’ unless they’re employees ignorant of their rights as workers.

  25. 30

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    27 Isn’t Frist under indictment? Or is he still under investigation?

    Scratch another wingnut presidential aspirant.

  26. 32

    sgmmac spews:

    Former Voter,

    Actually there is a case before the Supreme Court on the teacher’s union doing just what I said……….

  27. 33

    Robert KKK Byrd-Democrat spews:

    29

    Former Voter is either a democratic hack or a thug for the public unions. Hahahaha I love you guys.

  28. 34

    Robert KKK Byrd-Democrat spews:

    Flaky klake @23: Let’s suppose we give up the state’s monopoly on liquor sales and let private individuals take those profits. Which taxes do you want to raise to make up for the lost state revenues?

    Well whatever you do dont raise taxes on any of my government projects. Especially the ones with my name on them. heehehe

  29. 35

    Robert KKK Byrd-Democrat spews:

    Roger Rabbit says:

    6 “governor by theft”

    Most babies grow out of crying jags by age 2 or so; Dinocrats are stuck in infancy.

    You tell em. It only took three counts to get it right with Gregoire. We are still working on the 2006 presidential race in Ohio but I am sure there is a recount that would favor Kerry. Damn GOP cheaters.

  30. 36

    Robert KKK Byrd-Democrat spews:

    No. Why should I, when you guys refuse to admit that Bush insulted the troops by calling a soldier in Iraq “boy?”

    12/07/2006 at 6:37 pm

    Ah get over it. Republicans can get away with calling our soldiers anything because most soldiers are republicans. It goes both ways. Why do you think my white ass can get away with the N word. The military is to the republicans like the blacks are to the democrats. That dog aint gonna hunt.

  31. 37

    klake spews:

    Goldy and Gang what say you? Has your local governments and educational intuitions has failed the students be successful in the world we live in today? Who is really responsible for the failure, parents, teachers, administrators, local governments, federal governments, or the Teacher Unions? Will the Socialist Democrats step up to the plate and put Unions in their proper place in the educational intuitions?
    The No Child Left Behind education act, which requires the states to close the achievement gap between rich and poor students in exchange for federal aid, has been under heavy fire since it was passed five years ago. Critics, some of whom never wanted accountability in the first place, have ratcheted up their attacks in anticipation of Congressional hearings and a reauthorization process that could get under way soon after the new Congress convenes in January.
    Those critics were empowered by a spate of recent studies showing that the nation has made slight overall progress in closing the achievement gap since the law went into effect. (A handful, including New York and New Jersey, are said to have made moderate progress.) The data has been seized upon as evidence that Congress set the bar too high.
    Generally, the opponents do not argue that impoverished children can never be educated up to the same standards as the wealthy. They simply say it will take much longer than the law permits. In the world of education reform, where ambitious programs generally last only as long as it takes for the schools to fail to meet the first target, endless deferral of deadlines would be a death knell for No Child Left Behind.
    And the country can’t afford that. Unless we improve schools — especially for minority children who will make up the work force of the future — we will fall behind our competitors abroad who are doing a better job of educating the next generation.
    It’s impossible to brand No Child Left Behind as a failure, because its agenda has never been carried out. The law was supposed to remake schools that serve poor and minority students by breaking with the age-old practice of staffing those schools with poorly trained and poorly educated teachers. States were supposed to provide students with highly qualified teachers in all core courses by the beginning of the current academic year. That didn’t happen.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12.....38;emc=rss

  32. 38

    Robert KKK Byrd-Democrat spews:

    ted bessell says:

    re 9: That is such a lame and stupid argument. We’ve been over it here 100 times. You know you are mis-representing this thing — you lying piece of crap.

    Man this site is full of union hacks isnt it. Heheehehe

  33. 39

    Jim King spews:

    Maybe the lack of hoopla over the Governor’s announcement is because it isn’t news- this decision on L&I rates was worked out some time ago. The business community has been trying to force L&I to cough up the excess reserve for over two years, and that is what is being done. Rates are not being lowered because the system has NOT been reformed sufficiently to allow a permanent reduction in rates.

    This is more akin to getting your refund of the income tax you overpaid rather than any type of a tax cut. What is there to celebrate?

  34. 41

    klake spews:

    John Barelli says:
    In an attempt to somehow argue against a point I was trying to make, our far-right fringe buddy, klake, called me what he apparently considers a dirty name. He thinks I’m a liberal

    Reverent John why would I think of degrading your political point of view and it is ok to be Liberal if that your vocation.
    You know, the more times I’m called a liberal, the better I like the title. The folks that use that word as some sort of epithet never seem to have any opinions or thoughts of their own. It’s as if the word “liberal” is some sort of magic mantra that they think negates any need for logical argument.
    Reverent John Barelli your calling is to be a preacher not a political hack and help save all those lost souls in the Church of Liberalism.
    But rather than try to make a counter-argument that I now realize that I left myself wide open for, the only response from the far-right fringes is to call me a liberal.
    Liberal (from the American Heritage online dictionary)
    ADJECTIVE: 1a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry. b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
    Yes, I think I like that title.

    Brother John you can be Liberal but you cannot be a Socialist Democrat because they do not associate with that word you describe today. For they are not tolerant, not broad-minded, not free from bigotry, only their own reform, lack open views for new ideas for progress, they do not tolerant others ideas and not tolerant of others ideas and behavior. .
    And for you, klake, our little right-wing nut job, I have a little prayer that I think of whenever I read your posts.
    May God bless and keep you… far away from me.

    Brother John God will not bless those who do not love his children and avoid bring the strays to his church. Your job is to save the lost and help them redeem their souls from hell. You have miss your calling, sing is a gift for those who can not preach. Reverent John you can do it all, so love your brothers and strike out on a mission and save souls. Amen Brother. .

  35. 49

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    36 Keep thinking that while the troops keep bleeding for nothing under an incompetent wingnut regime that has repeatedly lied to them. Maybe you can lose the rest of your base.

  36. 50

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    38 “Man this site is full of union hacks isnt it.”

    God I sure hope so. We pass out bricks and pipes in the morning. Then we go looking for fascist traitors.

  37. 51

    ted bessell spews:

    re 20: Why do you inflict us with this tedious BS. He tried to run for president by inflaming morons with the Schiavo case. He lied about his finances. hE’S UNDER fEDERAL INVESTIGATION. And the only reason he’s not staying longer is because the voters are on to the fact that he’s a lying crook.

  38. 52

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    39 Anytime a wingnut uses the word “reform” watch out! Their idea of “reform” is — no benefits, no taxes, no employer liability. They want to go back to the master-servant doctrine with “tort reform” layered on top (i.e., maximum liability for wrongful death = $500 + no attorney fees).

  39. 56

    Former Voter spews:

    #38-

    Man this site is full of union hacks isnt it. Heheehehe

    Tripe. Check your assumptions at the door, gigglemeister. Since 1988, union crybabies – public and private sector – have been able to declare Financial Core status and no longer support ideas through dues that might hurt their feelings. Wingnut teacher who hates the NEA’s politics? Get off your victimless ass and declare your Beck Rights. Moonbat broadcaster who can’t stand the positions of AFTRA? Be empowered, discover economic diversity and outsource yourself as a FiCore sub-contractor. Labor unions as a force to be reckoned with in this country are so 20th Century.

  40. 57

    John Barelli spews:

    RightEqualsStupid says:

    We ought to just castrate every Christian on the planet since they’re all just a child rapist waiting to happen.

    This fellow is simply proof that the left wing has people just as bigoted and stupid as the right. It’s a bit more disappointing when I read something from someone that claims to be a liberal, yet believes in religious discrimination and violence.

    What is even more amazing is that apparently the church fired him and appears to be doing what it can to cooperate, and yet RightEqualsStupid would advocate violence against all of the members of that church, including the child’s parents.

    RightEqualsStupid, you must have really been jumping for joy when that milkman shot up that Amish school. After all, those kids and the teacher were Christian, so trying to kill them must be just fine with you.

    Hey, you would really do well in Darfur. They’re killing off Christians by the thousands! Just round them up and set fire to the church, and listen as they burn. Your kind of party!

    While folks with the ability to reason and think have been leaving the neocon movement in droves, that doesn’t mean that everyone that votes Democrat is intelligent or reasonable, but RightEqualsStupid goes beyond the pale.

    I still think that RightEqualsStupid is a Republican troll putting really stupid, bigoted, ignorant posts here so that the folks over at unSP can quote them.

  41. 58

    ted bessell spews:

    re 55: No. I don’t. Sometimes a wingnut will research the quotes and come back to triumphantly proclaim that I, Ted Bessell, am such an idiot for thinking that quote is from, JIMMY KIMMEL.

    i JUST GET A KICK OUT OF IT.

    Attributing famous quotes to Merv Griffin is another fun gambit.

  42. 59

    ted bessell spews:

    re 56: The teamsters union almost bought Boeing a few years back. That’s 21st century bromide brain.

  43. 62

    ted bessell spews:

    A bromide is a phrase, or person who uses phrases, which have been used and repeated so many times as to become either insincere in their meaning, or seem like an attempt at trying to explain the obvious.

  44. 63

    klake spews:

    Former Voter says:
    #38-
    Man this site is full of union hacks isn’t it? Heheehehe
    Tripe. Check your assumptions at the door, gigglemeister. Since 1988, union crybabies – public and private sector – have been able to declare Financial Core status and no longer support ideas through dues that might hurt their feelings. Wing nut teacher who hates the NEA’s politics? Get off your victimless ass and declare your Beck Rights. Moon bat broadcaster who can’t stand the positions of AFTRA? Be empowered, discover economic diversity and outsource yourself as a FiCore sub-contractor. Labor unions as a force to be reckoned with in this country are so 20th Century.
    12/07/2006 at 10:27 pm

    Former Voter just one question what century are we in today? You are right about Unions, but that is only they pull their heads out of their ass. Having been a Shop Stewart I have seen their strengths and weakness, but you cannot bite the hand that feed you. Some Unions have total lost it, other’s are in there to representing the working class and making the company’s successful in the world economies. From my vantage point NEA’s has violated all the principles in order to make a school system successful for the students. Now if I was Queen for a day that Union would be banned from representing the Teachers until the student were getting the education the taxpayer were paying for today.

  45. 64

    ted bessell spews:

    I accused some wingnuts of using “bromides” and I don’t want them to think I meant Alka Seltzer — or MAYBE that’s exactly what I meant.

    (hehehehehehehhhheeeehhe)

    I feel so gay when I do that hehe thing. Should I rein it in?

  46. 65

    My Left Foot spews:

    Dear Ted,

    We are liberals here. You can be as manly or gay as you want to. We won’t judge you. However Mike Webb Sucks might want to date you.

  47. 66

    ted bessell spews:

    I feel like singing,”I feel Pretty” and dancing like a butterfly on the tips of my toes!!!! (hehehehehe)

  48. 67

    ted bessell spews:

    Would you hate me if I told you that I have a hairy back and nipples the size of pie plates? (HEHEHEHEHE)

  49. 68

    Mrs Left Foot spews:

    You go girlfriend!

    I have a pair of Judy Garland Wizard of OZ pumps that would look adorable on you.

  50. 70

    klake spews:

    Reverent John what is your opinions on the ACLU a far left establishment that will do anything to abolish region including Muslim?

    The following letter is from Michael J. Landkamer, National Executive Committeeman for the American Legion:
    The Public Expression of Religion Act, H.R.2679 (PERA), has passed in the House and its companion S.3696 Veterans Memorials, Boys Scouts, Public Seals, and Other Public Expression of Religion Act is pending before the Senate Judiciary Committee.
    PERA is a necessary reform. It would withdraw the authority of judges to award attorney fees, at taxpayer-expense, to the ACLU, or anyone else, in Establishment Clause cases against the Boy Scouts and the public display of the Ten Commandments or other symbols of our American religious history and heritage, including at veteran’s memorials.
    The American Legion is strongly supporting this reform. The Legion points out that the ACLU is being granted attorney fees at about $350 per hour, when in fact it has no actual outside attorney fees as its lawsuits are done by staff or volunteer attorneys.
    Here are some examples of how the ACLU has manipulated Title 42 U.S. Code, Section 1988: The Balboa Park case in San Diego, in which the federal courts ruled that the Boy Scouts of America promote a belief in God and is, therefore, a “religious organization.” As such, they are not entitled to receive support from the government. That decision evicted BSA from city property they inhabited for 40 years and into which the Boys Scouts put millions of dollars. The ACLU celebrated as they were awarded $940,000.00.
    In 1934 a white cross was erected in the Mojave Desert as a tribute to the World War I veterans. Before President Clinton left office he put that part of the desert in the Mojave Preserve, thus putting the memorial on federal property. The ACLU sued and was awarded $63,000 and the cross was ordered destroyed.
    This sets a very dangerous precedent. There are 9,000 Crosses and Stars of Davis at Normandy Beach. There are 22 national cemeteries with veterans at rest beneath religious symbols. There is nothing in the law to prevent groups like the ACLU from filing Establishment Clause lawsuits against those sacred grounds and then receiving taxpayer -paid attorney fees.
    Title 42 U.S. Code, Section 1988 was intended to help the poor obtain legal counsel in claims of real, tangible violation of civil rights. To enrich itself, the ACLU has exploited it.

  51. 72

    My Left Foot spews:

    Roflmao! (actually, both of us. It is rare to laugh at an exchange on this board).

    You have fun, we are going to bed. G’nite, Ted.

  52. 73

    ted bessell spews:

    “klake says:

    Reverent John what is your opinions on the ACLU a far left establishment that will do anything to abolish region including Muslim?”

    Is your brain injury permanent?

  53. 74

    My Left Foot spews:

    Klake the fake:

    Would you please quit with the cut and paste. For fucks sake, man, use your own works to express your own thoughts.

    Oh, sorry.

    I forgot that you don’t think.

    Funny how that works.

  54. 75

    Former Voter spews:

    I feel like singing,”I feel Pretty” and dancing like a butterfly on the tips of my toes!!!! (hehehehehe)

    Would you hate me if I told you that I have a hairy back and nipples the size of pie plates? (HEHEHEHEHE)

    GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!! Slap me on the can and be my man! (hehehehehe)

    Bromides. Right.

  55. 76

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    63 The union’s job is to represent the teachers, not the students, dumbass. In fact, they have a legal duty to their members to do so, and can be sued for breach of this duty.

  56. 77

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    63 (continued)

    I don’t believe you were ever a shop steward (not “stewart”), but if you were, you were a quack shop steward and you’re now a “former” shop steward (no surprise).

  57. 78

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    64 “Should I rein it in?”

    Absolutely not! Why would you even consider such a thing?

  58. 80

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    70 (continued)

    “In 1934 a white cross was erected in the Mojave Desert as a tribute to the World War I veterans. Before President Clinton left office he put that part of the desert in the Mojave Preserve, thus putting the memorial on federal property. The ACLU sued and was awarded $63,000 and the cross was ordered destroyed.”

    This statement also is FALSE. The 1934 memorial cross ceased to exist long ago, and the cross the National Park Service removed was a different cross:

    “A wooden cross and a plaque were erected on the site in 1934 by members of the local Veterans of Foreign Wars chapter to honor soldiers who died during World War I. Those memorials have since been destroyed or stolen, but neighbors continued to replace the cross, said resident Rob Blair.”

    http://archives.cnn.com/2000/U......cross.ap/

    Wingnuts do not understand, and will never understand, the true purpose of the Establishment Clause or the ACLU’s role in defending it. These lawsuits PROTECT rather than take away freedom of religion. When adherents of one religion are permitted to display symbols of their religion, to the exclusion of other religious displays, on public property then government is giving preference to one religion over all others and this inevitably leads to state intrusion in religious beliefs and perhaps even the state forcing citizens to practice a state-decreed religion — one of the evils that caused many of America’s earliest immigrants to flee Europe to the New Land. My own great-great-grandfather was a refugee from persecution of rabbits in a certain European country, where rats had the run of the place but rabbits were driven out. In a way, I’m glad that happened, because the grass is greener here in America. If it had to happen to someone in my family tree, better him than me.

  59. 81

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Any time flaky klake posts anything, you should assume it’s poorly researched, inaccurate, and a lie. His batting average for truthfulness and factual accuracy is 0.0000%.

  60. 82

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    73 “Is your brain injury permanent?”

    Flaky klake is not capable of having a brain injury. I’ll let you figure out why.

  61. 83

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    There can be no doubt, none whatsoever, that the ACLU’s firm and steady defense of the separation of church and state is a good thing for all Americans, including those who oppose the ACLU. All one has to do is look at the sectarian violence tearing apart other lands. The bitter debates over Terri Schiavo, creationism, and Ten Commandments displays merely hint at what would happen to our society if any group got their foot in the door — even a little — in terms of getting preferred governmental treatment for their religion. One need only look at northern Ireland, contemporary Iraq, or India to see what religious rivalries lead to. It is far, far worse than the gang warfare afflicting our streets. It is perpetual civil war. Why do wingnuts want such a thing in our country? Are they stupid, or mean-spirited, or both?

  62. 84

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    An important facet of the Roy Moore controversy, glossed over by the news media and never mentioned by Moore’s defenders, is that Moore (a Southern Baptist) refused requests from other religious groups to display symbols in the courthouse, making it clear that Moore was not opening the public property of the courthouse to all religions but only to his religion. Moore is a “one true” religionist; i.e., “my religion is the only true religion and your religion is wrong.” In every sense, then, Moore misused his official position to misuse state power to force his own religion on the citizens of Alabama to the exclusion of other religions.

  63. 85

    Daddy Love spews:

    6 Anonymous 2

    Oooooh that Gregoire is so obviously trying to look like a pragmatic centrist that runs a tight ship, instead of the horrible liberal, tax-and-spend governor by theft she is.

    And when she has performed thoughout her entire term as a pragmatic centrist, you’ll still be convinced that she’s a “tax-and-spend liberal.” But it won’t matter, because Dino Rossi will have been a do-nothing shadow for four years and the people of Washington will know better.

  64. 87

    rhp6033 spews:

    Gee, Klake’s posting of the Frist letter reminded me of Sen. Howard Baker, a moderate Republican who kept asking during the Watergate hearings: “What did the President know, and when did he know it?”

    I always liked Howard Baker, even if he was a Republican. But there doesn’t seem to be any room in the Republican party for moderates and thoughtful men like Howard Baker, who were dedicated to public service. Instead, we get rabid neo-cons or professional politicians who kow-tow to the neo-con money. You can see the change between the 1980 election, when G.H.W. Bush called the neo-con economics “Voodoo Economics”, but by 1988 he had switched to “read my lips, no new taxes”.

    Unfortunately, the only way to reveal that neo-con philosophy as bankrupt was to have them try to manage the government for a while. Then it becomes apparant that a group of people who despise government in general are perhaps not the best people to be put in charge of it.

  65. 89

    rob spews:

    By Goldy:

    And workers who have premiums deducted from their paycheck will also see substantial savings: $267 for an agricultural worker, $378 for food processing and manufacturing, $153 per health care worker.

    Goldy, could you expound on that statement some and let us know who the employers are that deduct Workmens Compensation from their employees paychecks? I have never heard of that and am not sure it is legal to do that. You must have some different data though and would appreciate your sharing it.