When it comes to elections, perfect is the enemy of good

I need to say something that no elected official or respectable journalist would dare utter (and that will surely prompt howls of derision from the Rossiphiles on the right.) The November 2004 election in King County…? It really wasn’t all that fucked up.

Oh sure… felons voted, provisionals were improperly scanned, and some ballots were misplaced, lost, and unreconciled… but relatively speaking, when compared to other jurisdictions in this and previous elections, the error rate was well within or below national averages. And unlike places like Florida or Ohio, there was no voter intimidation and no half-day long lines at urban polling places, purposely disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of voters.

I’m not dismissing some very real problems. Mistakes were made that can and should be fixed. But King County’s problems were duplicated in counties across the state, and compared to elsewhere in the nation, Washington elections are for the most part, clean, transparent and accurate. That’s the facts. I know it’s hard for Republicans to accept, but Democrats’ stranglehold on King County is due to the fact that voters prefer Democrats… not due to election day cheating.

And so when I read a headline in the Seattle Times like “Credibility on the line in Sept. vote“, it really pisses me off, because this is little more than a setup for failure.

All that should help restore confidence


  1. 1

    windie spews:

    King county got me my voters reg. card within 3 weeks of moving back into the state. I never got one ballot in 3 years living in Oregon.

    So tell me how inefficient and all KC is!

    Also, this whole “We can’t win honestly, so we’ll try to destroy the system” stuff is really scary. What brought it to this?

  2. 2

    Curious George spews:

    Windie @ 1

    ….“’We can’t win honestly, so we’ll try to destroy the system’…. is really scary. What brought it to this?”

    Welcome to the new Rethuglican Party.

  3. 3

    NoWonder spews:

    windie @ 1

    “We can’t win honestly, so we’ll try to destroy the system”

    The dems are not saying to destroy the system, and even resist reasonable reforms. They like the current system just fine. It is very easy to end up with thousands of voterless ballots that get counted.

  4. 4

    windie spews:

    but… but why?

    What made anyone think this kind of tactic was a good idea in the long run?

    I’m seriously not asking that as a rhetorical question. I’d love to know who thought it would be great to tear down the legitimacy of the whole process in order to ‘win’.

  5. 5

    windie spews:

    @3 careful of that world you’re living in there Nowonder. Its easy to get lost in fantasyland.

  6. 6

    NoWonder spews:


    It is easy to cheat with the current system. If criticizing the elections system is tearing it down there can be no reform. The same could be said for US war policies.

    If I am in fantasyland perhaps you could help me out – how about a guided tour?

  7. 7

    windie spews:


    You missed the whole point of the post and the discussion.

    The point is that KC elections are actually quite good, if imperfect. There have been some good reforms, and likely there will be more.

    The republicans have chosen to greatly exaggerate the problems with the election in order to score points and try to win in a heavily Dem. state.

    Thats the point.

    (I know Goldy said it, but apparently it wasnt’ clear enough)

  8. 8

    prr spews:

    The thought there is nothing wrong with Kind County Elections is laughable. Dean Logan should have been fired.

    There is no longer any trust in our election system and quite frankly, the King County Elections Office will be considered a joke as long as he is associated with it.

  9. 9

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    EFF is right. Dean Logan DOES belong in jail. He has shown a pattern of reckless disregard for election law. But in the king county cabal, anything goes as long as the “right” person wins.

    You donks better use the brief time you have wisely to attempt to implement your childish agenda, because it won’t be close next time. KC won’t be able to manufacture enough votes to overcome the ass kicking the queen gets next time.

  10. 10

    WriteOff spews:

    Mark the Redneck…you and your cohorts are the ones living in a fantasy land. The problems in KC were just that, problems. No long term gain for you blue babies. The elections will be back to normal. Washington is a BLUE STATE and will remain so long after you are buried in some ‘red’ neck cemetary

  11. 11

    windie spews:


    Dunno if you 2 are dupes that have bought into the propaganda, or partisan bastards that are willing to do anything in order to steal political power.

    I also don’t know which is sadder.

  12. 12

    Food for Thought spews:

    So, how would you folks rate Florida elections? Ohio? This always amazes me. The elections are always fucked up when *your guy* doesn’t win, irrespective of what side of the aisle you are on.

    I guess it’s all about what you are willing to tolerate. By percentage, it all sounds well and good. But in the last election, neither my nor my wife’s vote were counted. That alone pisses me off. Through no error of my own, I was ‘disenfranchised’, to quote an overused term.

  13. 14

    righton spews:

    Goldy, you are getting ridiculous…

    a) whassup w/ fake “voter suppression” in floriday and texas. That’s a lie, propaganda you guys love to trot out
    b) Yeah, we’re anti big “statist” government; that is, government that exists only to keep the status quo intact.
    c) You got, and seem to prefer, a system that cannot account for its votes or voters.
    d) But then again, your here cannot figure out basic math (sims and his 99.8% nonsense back last year)

  14. 15

    windie spews:


    Cynical, learn from righton. He may be the dupe of a predatory and evil party that loves lies, but at least he’s on-topic in his attacks.


    Just read, man… is it really that hard? Its not like anyone on the left is pretending the last election was perfect. The fact that you don’t think there were any problems in those other states is hardly surprising, given your loyalties, but just think about what you’re saying.

    “Not bad but could certainly use improvements…” Is that so far off? Its not like we’re saying everything was perfect last year… altho, I’m under the impression that taken as a whole, the errors helped the Republicans instead of hurting them…

    Not that you care in the least. You see a weakness in Sims and want to exploit it… Makes me almost wanna vote for the guy, just to see the ‘dirty trickism’ fail.

  15. 16

    righton spews:

    Huge difference in imaginary “voter suppression”, and our local eye witness evidence of weak record keeping.

    I didn’t make up the false comparison. Goldy just trying to incite the readers, rather than stick to facts.

    I don’t view KC as anywhere near a place likely to elect a GOP person, (so fixing KC won’t give us a win), but man, you gotta be a brain dead yellow dog to think it wasn’t broken, and with same boobs in control, still broken.

    Where’s the outrage over fact (see Sunday paper) that Seattle is a 1 party town? You like that?

  16. 17

    prr spews:



    I just want the votes that are cast be counted.

    Note counted and manipulated until you get te result you are looking for, which is what happened this past election.

  17. 18

    Ted Smith spews:

    KOMO-TV is guilty, too. On Sunday, Molly Shenn referred to the “botched” King County election. As you noted, it wasn’t perfect, but it certainly wasn’t botched.

  18. 19

    windie spews:


    Righton, I’m sure you’ve said it before, but tell me what reforms you want that aren’t being applied already? Also show me proof of wrongdoing on the part of these officials that isn’t rightwing propaganda.


    Prr: Evidence? The judge didn’t agree with you, y’know. The burdon’s on you.

  19. 20

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    You bragged up KingCo Elections for getting you a Voter Reg Card in 3 weeks.
    I’m saying you probably got it because you are a known LEFTIST PINHEAD!
    My point is…KC Elections lacked consistency…not something to be proud of.

  20. 21

    righton spews:

    I want bookkeeping that ties registered votes, to their ballots, whether at the poll or via absentee. No funny business with provisionals and tallies that don’t add up.

    Why did we have more votes than voters?

  21. 22

    bill spews:

    Cynical, you didn’t die yet? Whats stopping you? Go curl up and die already, you piece of shit!!

  22. 24

    prr spews:


    Evidence on which?

    Seems to me that the Judge, as well as the independant investigation came back with the same findings: There were MANY problems and that Logan should either be replaced or go away for a time while the changes were implemented – to restore faikt in the election office.

    These recommendations are now interrpeted by the far left as…. Everything is great. Logan is a stand up guy, the election was just great.

  23. 25

    righton spews:

    Yeah, spin is “Logan is a wonk, weak manager, but man he knows his elections stuff”

    So why doesn’t he know the variances well enough to explain them

    Man, this is a good one..

  24. 26

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    “No election could be smooth enough for Ron Sims’ critics, and a relative lack of problems simply doesn’t make good headlines.”

    If KCRE somehow runs a perfect primary election, they’ll be screaming the fix was in. Wait and see.

  25. 27

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Hey Goldy, you gave an idea! I’ve been saying for sometime that Logan lacks the management skills to run KCRE. That’s just the wrong job for him! Let’s elect him as Secretary of State! Logan has the elections expertise needed to supervise the state’s county auditors — wouldn’t have to manage elections himself in that position — and has the honesty, integrity, and nonpartisanship to restore credibility to the SOS’s oversight function We need to get rid of that partisan hack Reed.

  26. 29

    righton spews:

    RAbbit has even better spin…

    Perfect election would seem rigged, then also messed up election didn’t really happen, so our mildly messed up election is perfect proof of a good system…

    Man, do you call the cops when you mutual fund statement adds up nicely? You mean, no variances makes you uneasy?

  27. 30

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Reply to 6

    “It is easy to cheat with the current system.”

    The only people known for sure to have cheated under the current system were 2 Republicans who voted their dead spouses’ ballots.

  28. 31

    NoWonder spews:

    Roger Rabbit @ 29

    ‘The only people known for sure to have cheated..’

    That is because the “current system” makes it impossible to know who voted the other 1900 illegal votes. Perhaps a small deal when the margin of victory is large, but that was not the case.

  29. 33

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “Note counted and manipulated until you get te result you are looking for, which is what happened this past election”


  30. 34

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    Unless I’m mistaken, you got what you want from the Democratic legislature. So shut up.

  31. 35

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    If you’re stupid enough to give your money to mutual fund managers, don’t come crying to the cops (or me). I do my own stock picking, dork.

  32. 36

    NoWonder spews:

    Roger Rabbit @ 29

    Plus, we have discussed previously how easy it is to cheat. The fact that the cheating cannot be detected, and even if votes are determined to be illegal, the votes get counted confirms what I said. Make excuses all you want, but please do not expect acknowledgement that cheating did not happen, or that the system can somehow prevent it.

  33. 37

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    Are you referring to the 1900 ballots counted by Republican officials in Rossi counties without verifying signatures?

  34. 39

    righton spews:

    roger, yawn. Unknown provenance, scared off, what 2 voters?

    Offset say in KC by registering every bum in the county (and more) and giving them a KC office to claim as address. Good luck verifying their authenticity.

  35. 40

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    That’s your argument? That because we can’t detect cheating, cheating must have happened?

    The same logic argues that because we can’t detect whether you have a brain, you must have one.

  36. 41

    NoWonder spews:

    Roger Rabbit @ 36

    ‘..1900 ballots counted by Republican officials in Rossi counties..’

    No, “unless I’m mistaken”, most all of the 1900 declared illegal in the elction contest came from KC, with the majority of those due to ballots without voters. Your 1900 would probably add to the uncertain results. After all, you would not want to apportion the KC illegal votes to favor the dems, would you?

  37. 42

    NoWonder spews:

    Roger Rabbit @ 39

    ‘That’s your argument? That because we can’t detect cheating, cheating must have happened?’

    No. We can detect cheating and it did happen. What the system does not allow is a good way to detect who cheated,(except for the felons), and most importantly, who the cheaters voted for. The election contest is a perfect example.

  38. 43

    windie spews:

    Offset say in KC by registering every bum in the county (and more) and giving them a KC office to claim as address. Good luck verifying their authenticity.

    Cite that, you lying bastard.

    You can’t just say whatever you want on here and expect people to believe you.

  39. 44

    windie spews:

    @41 isn’t it more that you can detect errors, and decided on your own, (were told by your secret masters) that it was cheating?

    Theres a huge difference there… Evidence of errors and oversights, no evidence of fraud.

  40. 45

    prr spews:

    Rabbits on to his babbling again….

    Ah yes, the one State worker who invested his own money rather than get a pension. Speaking of Bullshit….

    @ 40, why bother trying to reason with this clown. You’ll never convince him that those 1900 votes actually conted or that Judge Bridges mentioned how screwed up King county is, or the fact the an indepenadnt investigation said, King County is screwed up and needs to be changed.

    It’s all a republican conspiracy

  41. 46

    windie spews:

    @42 If you can give evidence that that happened, I’ll apologize… Altho’, is it bad to try to get people a vote? Owning property isn’t a requirement for voting, as far as I know.

  42. 47

    NoWonder spews:

    windie @ 43

    ‘Evidence of errors and oversights, no evidence of fraud.’

    I do not recall that there was any evidence of errors or oversight that are tied to the 1900 illegal votes. The “system” does not really allow for determining if that is what happened. The problems are that 1) It is very easy for one person to cast multible votes with the current system and 2) the illegal votes are sure to be counted and 3) there is no way to determine for which candidate the illegal votes were cast. If the “system” cannot do #3 there is no way to contest an election in WA.

    As long as the “system” allows illegal votes to be counted an election should be considered a tie if the margin of victory is less than the error, especially if that error is due to illegal votes.

  43. 48

    righton spews:

    42, windie
    I don’t lie, as you all do

    Precinct 1823 has 763 registered “Active” voters. 527 of them list as their residence address 500 4th Ave — the King County Administration Building. 241 of these voters specifically note their apartment number as #553, which is the room number of the … King County Records and Elections office.

  44. 49

    NoWonder spews:

    righton @ 47

    ‘Precinct 1823 has 763 registered “Active” voters.’

    It must make it easier to contact the voters in case they need to testify to verify who they voted for. Just in case the “system” detects that some of their votes were illegal.

  45. 50

    windie spews:


    Ok, my mistake. You made up your accusations of fraud out of whole cloth: “It could have happened, therefore it must have happened!” Its funny, tho’ you keep forgetting that there were plenty of discrepencies on both sides, and the only proven illegal votes were (as Roger said) republicans voting for deceased spouses. But you don’t care about that, do you?


    cite a source, silly.

    You can say anything you want.

    I’m all ready to say “sorry”, but you need, like, evidence.

  46. 51

    windie spews:

    damn must’ve been a filtered post

    change ‘@46′ to ‘@47′, and ‘@47′ to ‘@48′

  47. 52

    righton spews:

    windie look the names up on the precinct gizmo at sound politics. its factual, your only argument should be these are still citizens, this just a convenience to them. My arguement is its like printing money, in small batches.

  48. 53

    windie spews:


    you look them up. bring the proof to me, lazy.

    But, you must know that I”ll be very sceptical of anything from that insane pile of insanity called ‘soundpolitics’

    whats the old chestnut again? Oh yeah…

    “How can you tell Stefan is lying? Just type http://www.soundpolitics.com into your browser”

  49. 54

    righton spews:

    Chicken; he computerized the voter rolls. whadya want, a txt export? enuf labor on it already, you must be afraid to stare at the facts

  50. 55

    windie spews:


    What part of ‘burdon of proof is on you’ don’t you get?

    That particular site makes me mad, so I choose not to go there. I don’t reward lying cowards with my traffic.

  51. 56

    righton spews:

    sorry, forgot the liberal propaganda machine is trying to falsely label him a liar.

    Isn’t this the site that labels the right wing as fascists?

  52. 57

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @ 39

    “Offset say in KC by registering every bum in the county (and more) and giving them a KC office to claim as address. Good luck verifying their authenticity.”

    By what logic or stretch of imagination do you conclude that homeless people, bums, winos, druggies, and street people don’t have exactly the same right to vote as you do — provided they’re U.S. citizens, age 18 or over, and have not had their civil rights taken away by a court?

    You fucking Republicans will do anything to keep people from voting. You assholes want to impose literacy tests, poll taxes, bullshit ID requirements — anything to keep people from voting. If you could limit voting to people who own houses worth at least $750,000 or people who own at least $1 million of stock, you would! But selectively, of course; these requirements are enforced only in Democratic precincts, or poor precincts, or minority (especially black) precincts — never in Republican precincts. FUCK YOU!!!

    Take your bullshit phony “election reforms” and shove them up your ass! Then reinsert your head in your ass, and lick your bullshit phony “election reforms”! Taste good, asshole? Ya, you would think so. Fucking fascist.

  53. 58

    windie spews:

    lets see:

    “Falsely label him a liar!” HAR! He is a liar silly, or maybe just massively delusional. I went to his cavalcade of untruth a few times, but that was enough. Also he’s a coward who bans people who disagree. That makes him, as a blogger, below contempt.


    They are fascists… its pretty clear.

  54. 59

    David spews:

    Oh, give it a rest. Republicans have given us enough rumors, lies and innuendoes to keep the conspiracy theories simmering among their rabid loyalists even today, but when push came to shove they couldn’t back it up. Their claims of malfeasance and a stolen election turned out to be a lot of hot air, a P.R. stunt. Dismissed with prejudice.

    Let’s sum up:
    1. Little mistakes and errors happen in every election, everywhere.
    2. The absurdly close 2004 election for state Governor highlighted the little mistakes and errors, because this time they could have been significant.
    3. Errors were found, and corrected (and despite the Republican hype, it turned out that King County’s error rate was lower than average).
    4. A little bit of uncertainty was left over, but not enough to shake the results of an intensely monitored hand count of the ballots showing Christine Gregoire won the election.
    5. The Republicans presented NO evidence of fraud. NONE.
    6. Election reforms have been enacted and implemented to reduce and prevent errors in the future.

    Now, if you think our goal should be to sack the Democrats, tear down the King County elections office, un-register everyone and do everything possible to make sure only Republican property owners with three forms of identification are permitted to vote, you really ought to move to some rural area in Idaho where you can grouse to your heart’s content and elect right-wing zealots.

    If, on the other hand, you’re interested in improving things and making sure our next election is as error-free, fair and well-run as humanly possible (which, FYI, means it will be hard to claim foul play when King County elects a lot of Democrats), you should sign up to work at the polls on election night:

    Monday, August 29, 2005
    King County needs 600 poll workers


    King County Elections needs 600 poll workers for the Sept. 20 primary and Nov. 8 general election.

    Poll workers are responsible for opening polling places on Election Day and instructing voters on proper voting procedures.

    “We need committed individuals dedicated to serving their community and the election process,” said Sherril Huff-Menees, assistant director of Records, Elections and Licensing Services.

    Poll workers in King County receive $135.98 for a 15-hour Election Day, which includes a paid three-hour class.

    Election Day begins at 6 a.m. and continues until close-of-poll procedures are completed, about 9 p.m.

    Those who are interested should call (206) 296-1606.

  55. 60

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “most all of the 1900 declared illegal in the elction contest came from KC, with the majority of those due to ballots without voters.”

    First of all, nobody “declared” 1900 ballots “illegal” except the GOP liars (Chris Rants, John Carlson, Dino Lossi, etc.). We had a $4 million court trial, and the only ballots “declared illegal” were 4 votes cast by felons — all for Rossi!

    Second, you are mixing up two different numbers. Item A, the ballots “declared” (but not proved) by the GOP to be illegal came from all over the state, numb nuts! Item B, the GOP-alleged discrepancy between votes and voter lists is as phony as a $3 bill! We’ve gone over this GOP bullshit countless times in these threads, and I’m disinclined to reiterate it here. That only gives more time to lies that don’t deserve the time of day. (For those of you who tuned in late, the reason the votes and voter list don’t reconcile is because they weren’t designed to reconcile, because the GOP compared two different lists, neither of which is designed or valid for reconciliation purposes.)

  56. 62

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “We can detect cheating and it did happen.”

    At the end of the $4 million election contest lawsuit, a handpicked Republican judge in a forum-shopped Republican county detected cheating to the extent of 4 votes, all for Rossi, and added 4 more votes to Gregoire’s vote total.

    That is the answer to your bullshit argument: Your bullshit argument was subjected to the test of proof in a court of law, and that was the result. The GOP brought this lawsuit, and from now on, whenever wingnut bullshitters like you bring up the topic of election cheating, I’m gonna rub your faces in Judge Bridges’ decision. You deserve nothing less!

  57. 63

    NoWonder spews:

    windie @ 50

    ‘cite a source, silly.’

    How about the ruling for the election contest. The judge removed the 1900 illegal votes from the total, yet could not allocate them to either candidate.

  58. 64

    windie spews:

    @63 “cite”

    Don’t just say it, cite it. quote the source, and link it.

    How do we know you’re not pulling that straight out of your ass?

  59. 65

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Reply to 45

    “You’ll never convince him that those 1900 votes actually conted or that Judge Bridges mentioned how screwed up King county is”

    $4 million and two weeks of trial later, there’s absolutely no reason to believe those 1900 votes* weren’t cast by real voters who were eligible to vote and entitled to have their votes counted.

    * I’m not sure which 1900 votes you’re referring to, but the answer’s the same, except in the case of the 1900 votes counted by Republican officials in Rossi counties without verifying signatures, frankly I suspect every single one of them was a vote for Rossi cast by a dead person, an ineligible ex-felon, or someone who double-voted in another state!

    Fuck you, and fuck the horse you rode in on!

  60. 66

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    Never apologize to these assholes, even if you’re wrong. They don’t, so why should we? Remember the Golden Rule — treat these lying bastards exactly like they treat us.

  61. 67

    NoWonder spews:

    Roger Rabbit @ 60

    ‘We had a $4 million court trial, and the only ballots “declared illegal” were 4 votes cast by felons – all for Rossi!’

    Read the ruling. The judge declared that the 1900+ votes were illegal, AND he subtracted them from the total votes cast. You are confused by the only illegal votes that were tied to actual voters, which proves what I have been stating all along. It is easy to cast multiple ballots and have them counted. There is no other explanation because the “system” cannot account for the ballots with no voters.

  62. 68

    prr spews:

    pecil Dick
    “$4 million and two weeks of trial later, there’s absolutely no reason to believe those 1900 votes* weren’t cast by real voters who were eligible to vote and entitled to have their votes counted.”

    After the 3 different counts and the winning candidate having am election stolen from him, & having a mystery 1900 votes to a 129 (133) victory margin. What you should be saying is there is no reason to believe these were actual votes.

  63. 69

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Reply to 47

    We the taxpayers gave our election officials a very limited amount of money to conduct elections with, and they designed the best system they could within the limited funds we gave them. If you want more accounting, it’ll cost! The system in place for Nov. 2004 put almost the entire financial burden of conducting elections and counting votes on cash-strapped counties. This system protected the integrity of the voting process by verifying eligibility at the “front end” — when voters register. If you want a backward-looking verification process — pay for it! Rhetoric doesn’t buy computers and software or pay staff salaries.

    All we hear from you wingers is bitching about taxes and having to pay for anything government does — and then we hear you bitching because government isn’t doing enough! You fuckers are schizophrenic! Get therapy.

  64. 70

    NoWonder spews:

    Roger Rabbit @ 60

    ‘For those of you who tuned in late, the reason the votes and voter list don’t reconcile is because they weren’t designed to reconcile’

    Thank you. We agree that the “system” does not allow reconciling the votes. Combined with the ease at which multiple ballots can be voted by one person there is no way to detect fraud.

  65. 71

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “Precinct 1823 has 763 registered “Active” voters. 527 of them list as their residence address 500 4th Ave – the King County Administration Building. 241 of these voters specifically note their apartment number as #553, which is the room number of the … King County Records and Elections office.”

    All you’re saying is 527 homeless people registered to vote. Good for them! They have as much right to vote as you do, you arrogant self-righteous pompous prick.

  66. 73

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    I already signed up to be a poll worker. Mrs. Rabbit signed up too! We’re doing our citizen duty.

  67. 75

    NoWonder spews:

    Roger Rabbit @ 69

    ‘If you want a backward-looking verification process – pay for it!’

    It has been paid for 10 times over. The dems were not shy about raising emergency revenue during the last session. Notice that they did not even propose anything more expensive to “reform’ the election process.

    Your take on the 1900 illegal votes is hilarious. The bulk of the 1900 came from KC, and the judge raked KC over the coals specifically. The repubs lost the contest and I am over it. I just wish that it was not so easy to cheat, or that it was possible to determine who the cheaters voted for.

  68. 77

    windie spews:


    I know, I know… its hard tho’. I was well trained to treat people with a basic level of respect, no matter what.

    Well that, and I don’t wanna look like I”m unwilling to admit when I’m wrong.

    We’re better than these scumbags, right?

  69. 79

    windie spews:

    special note to ‘nowonder’ and ‘righton’

    look at #78… nice and hard.

    Notice how SOMEBODY knows how to provide his sources? Its really not that hard.

    As it is, we’re left to conclude that they don’t say what you claim they do.

  70. 80

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    How many of those 1900 ballots were “multiple” votes? The total number of duplicate votes (in-state and out-of-state) alleged by the GOP was 26.

    BTW, if the second link in my post #78 doesn’t work, it’s because of the period at the end of the sentence. If you copy and paste the hyperlink into your search box and delete that period, it will work.

  71. 81

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Reply to 68

    “the winning candidate having am election stolen from him”


  72. 83

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “It has been paid for 10 times over.”

    Bullshit — and your topic change to the state budget has nothing to do with it. The reconciliation would come out of county budgets, numbnuts! If you think the state should pass emergency legislation to provide state funding to counties to conduct elections, I’m in agreement! Counties are overwhelmed with unfunded mandates (such as the homeland security mandates unaccompanied by money emanating from the Bush administration and GOP congress) and handcuffed by limited revenue sources. Many of our state’s counties use antiquated voting machines and depend on skeleton election staffs. There simply isn’t enough money presently to add another major election task to the workload of county election departments. If you don’t believe that why don’t you ring up some of the elected Republican auditors and ask them if they’re willing to do reconciliations with their existing budget?

  73. 84

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “I know, I know… its hard tho’. I was well trained to treat people with a basic level of respect, no matter what.”

    So was I. But the smear campaigns, lies, and hate talk changed things. When someone says they intend to “execute” you, and demonstrates by their actions that they will give no quarter, you can’t afford to be polite. In their own words, this is civil war.* Lock and load, Windie. And no quarter for those fascist bastards. They are evil, and they deserve anything we can do to them.

    ” … this is a civil war, … only one side will prevail, and … [t]his war has to be fought with the scale and duration and savagery that is only true of civil wars. While we are lucky in this country that our civil wars are fought at the ballot box, not on the battlefields, nonetheless it is a civil war.” — Newt Gingrich, 1988, in a speech exhorting his fellow Republicans to go after liberals and Democrats with every dirty trick they could think of.

  74. 87

    NoWonder spews:

    windie @ 79

    ‘Notice how SOMEBODY knows how to provide his sources?’

    I just assumed that referring to the election contest ruling was sufficient. For the Google-impaired:


    I was wrong on the quantity – the total of illegal votes was only 1678, and the vast majority were from KC.

  75. 88

    Jon spews:

    RR: And where is Newt now? Not running Congress, consumed by his own tatics. Why do you think adapting the same tatics will result in a different outcome for your side? The pot doesn’t get clean by looking like the kettle.

    I’ve said it to you before, if you want to win, be positive! Have a vision of the nation that is uplifting, helpful, and achieveable. Bill Clinton understood this extremely well. Hillary understands this too, but it looks like your “take no prisoners” compatriots over at Kos won’t tolerate it from her.

    Democrats can and should be a viable alternative, but not as the “we hate W party”. The Republicans tried the “we hate Clinton party” in the 90’s and lost twice. Don’t make the same mistake.

  76. 89

    NoWonder spews:

    Roger Rabbit @ 80

    ‘How many of those 1900 ballots were “multiple” votes?’

    You are assuming that the multiple votes must be from someone stupid enough to use the same name for all of them. As for the voter-less ballots, there are no voters with which to campare to on the registered list.

  77. 90

    NoWonder spews:

    Roger Rabbit @ 85

    ‘Have you fascist bastards figured out yet that I don’t like you?’

    I am pretty dense and assume that we can all get along. The clues are there, however, with the frequent name-calling-in-lieu-of-arguments.

  78. 91

    Food for Thought spews:

    I still think the ‘Fascist Bastards’ would be a great name for punk band.

    RR @ 84: I believe you know what Newt was trying to do. It reminds me a bit too much of an episode of ‘Malcolm in the Middle’, where Hal teaches the children of a soccer team that the other team is not just their opponents, but *evil*. It worked on the 8 year olds, and it works again, equally well on the left and the right. Bush isn’t just a poor excuse for a President (I voted for him), he’s fucking EVIL. Hangs out with Satan and the ragged ass ghost of Hitler for tea. I’m sure MoveOn.org has pictures of the whole thing.

    See, if you can break them down into not just having a difference of opinion, or Hell, just being ignorant or stupid, but EVIL, it allows you to rationalize all kinds of things. It allows you to act with moral certitude and turn off those pesky areas of your brain that would normally make you stop and think that your fellow countrymen aren’t just mistaken, but are something to be loathed.

    It’s all so wonderfully visceral. Gets the blood up, it does.

  79. 92

    Dan B spews:

    There is an easy solution to this. 55% to win, or re-run, preferably with new people. And it has the added virtue of long periods of time with no government…

  80. 93

    Dan B spews:

    @20: I have to wonder… If you held Mr. Cynical’s head under water, would the bubbles get smaller, or would they just keep going forever???

  81. 94


    it has the added virtue of long periods of time with no government…

    Comment by Dan B— 8/29/05 @ 7:40 pm

    Hey I would vote for that. Call Tim Eyeman!!! That would pass the donk fraud threshhold easy.

  82. 95

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Is that all you have to wonder about???
    No wonder you LEFTIST PINHEADS (aka LENIN’s USEFUL IDIOTS) find yourselves in such a pickle!
    The bubbles would keep going on forever!
    Do you know why DanB??

  83. 96


    I have said it before and I will say it again. Listening to donks talk about election reform is like listening to an umemployed motivational speaker.

  84. 97

    Mark1 spews:

    Dean Logan = reject from the community disease ward; riding the “short” bus. ‘Nuff said.

  85. 98

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “RR @ 84: I believe you know what Newt was trying to do.”

    It was along these lines:

    “’Gingrich does have ideas,’ John Taylor wrote in Esquire. … ‘Newt also introduced a new style of Republicanism, based on confronting and demonizing the liberal culture … [n]o longer would the Democrats simply be opposed; they would be destroyed.’ … Newt’s overarching strategy was to portray the differences between the two parties as at root moral, not political, laying the rhetorical groundwork for an offensive …. He used certain outrageously stigmatizing language … to caricature the opposition as immoral, even evil. ‘People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz,’ Gingrich declared. ‘I see evil around me every day.’ Newt called Democrats ‘sick,’ ‘grotesque,’ ‘loony,’ ‘stupid,’ ‘corrupt,’ ‘anti-family,’ and ‘traitors.’ … In Esquire, Taylor concluded, ‘Gingrich offers up a history of American values in a scheme so hysterically partisan, so transparently dishonest, so willfully stupid, that it’s impossible to believe even Newt himself would expect anyone to take it seriously.’ But Newt did take himself seriously, as did legions of other right-wingers across the country ….”

    Quoted from David Brock, “Blinded by the Right,” at pp. 65-67.

  86. 99

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “The bubbles would keep going on forever! Do you know why DanB??”

    Me! Me! I know why! Because Mr. Cynical has an endless supply of gas.

  87. 100

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Did any of you fucking morons ever read Newt’s “Renewing American Civilization”? Read the book or listen tapes or see the interviews? Of course not. You arrogant fucking assholes know all the answers don’t you. Here’s a guy who is an accomplished historian, brilliant politician, and gifted writer who laid out the course to fixing what what got fucked up by you idiot “progressives” and your failed “great society”. And you just ignore him because you were told to ignore him by your puppet masters.

    I thought you guys were “diverse” and interested in moving forward. I thought you were “moderates” who considered all views and then made a choice. I guess not. You’re nothing but mind numbed programmed robot useful fucking idiots.

  88. 101

    righton spews:

    mtr; i think they tried to burn or ban his books, good “liberals” that they are..

    Same crowd that shouts down Coulter and other r.wing speakers.

  89. 102

    righton spews:

    rereading Goldy’s header, should be…

    Careful (counting of ballots) is the enemy of smug (cocky, indifferent).

  90. 103

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Righton – I think yer right. But why would they do that? I don’t get it. I thought these guys were “progressive moderates”. Why would they not even consider another view? I mean…. they aren’t just mindless robots are they? Say it ain’t so ! ! !

  91. 104

    Richard Pope spews:

    I am late in the comment thread, but here is my BIG QUESTION:

    Why didn’t the state GOP determine how many people ACTUALLY VOTED in King County in the November 2004 election? I.e. count the signatures in polling place books and count the accepted absentee and provisional ballot envelopes?

    The numbers SEEMED to be off by about a thousand or so. But why blow millions on lawyers fees, when $5,000 could have counted the actual names, and $100,000 could have created an alternate database using nearly 100% accurate data input?

    Judge Bridges found that the state GOP FAILED TO PROVE that more ballots were counted than people actually casting them. The state GOP produced no DIRECT evidence on this subject.

    (The other major part of Judge Bridges ruling was that the state GOP had the burden of proving who ineligible voters had voted for, since no fraud by the Dems was shown in having the ineligible voters vote. Presumably, if the state GOP had been able to prove that more ballots were counted than people casting them, it would not have been necessary to prove who the “stuffed” ballots were cast for.)

  92. 105

    NoWonder spews:

    Richard Pope @ 104

    ‘Judge Bridges found that the state GOP FAILED TO PROVE that more ballots were counted than people actually casting them.’

    The judge did rule that 1678 votes were illegal. Around half of that total were the extra ballots that did not have ballots, and most of those were in KC. The total number of votes was reduced by that amount, yet because there was no way to determine who those ballots were tallied for the candidates totals were not adjusted. (Except for the 4 felons that testified for the dems that they voted for Rossi.)

    It really was required by the WA contest law to prove how the illegal ballots were voted, not just that they were voted illegally. That is what makes the WA contest law ridiculous and ineffective.

  93. 106

    NoWonder spews:

    Richard Pope @ 104 correction

    ‘…were the extra ballots that did not have VOTERS,..’

  94. 108

    Gary spews:

    Yeah you stole the election fair and square. Just shut up and enjoy the power, and quit trying to pretend that King County is not a political cesspool.

  95. 109

    For the Clueless spews:

    Redneck jerk @ 100

    Yeah we looked at Gingrich. Didn’t like him. ’nuff said.

    His books are crap. He’s a charlatan, a fraud. Anyone with half a brain can see that. Where is he now?


  96. 110

    WriteOff spews:

    Mr Cynical @ 95….I know why, because ‘shit’ keeps on fermenting and your head is definitely full of shit

  97. 111

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Clueless – So you don’t like the concepts of understanding the foundation of America, personal strength, entrepreneurial free enterprise, or the spirit of invention and discovery?

    In other words, you’d prefer an Clueless America of victims, nanny state and letting everybody else do the work? Yup. That’s Murkin asses.

  98. 112

    windie spews:


    They didn’t go count the polling books because they knew that they’d already lost, and it was never about that. It was about fooling the groundlings into turning against the elections process.

    Which, of course, brings us back to Goldy’s original post.

  99. 113

    For the Clueless spews:


    Anyone can spout feel-good bromides. Doesn’t mean crap.

    Your fantasy about people who disagree with you is crap as well.

  100. 114

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    Hey Gary I got an offer for ya — I’ll admit Gregoire stole the election if you admit Bush stole 2 elections.

  101. 115

    righton spews:

    ok, roger. lets add all the recent stolen elections..

    kennedy vs nixon
    most any chicago election
    plenty of lbj congressional races
    cantwell vs gorton (slimmer margin than bush/kerrey)

    waiting for your 20 posts in a row…