What to do About JPMorgan Chase?

In most business, when a company loses $2 Billion as part of its core business model, we usually let the market take care of things. Maybe have regulators look into it if the loss was caused by deceptive practices. But generally speaking, the market effects of their decision are a good enough punishment for whatever business. If a company loses $2 Billion and has to go in front of Congress or regulators, the worst part is generally the loss of money.

But banks are different for a few reasons. First, their role in the economy is different than other companies. The financing they provide is not the same as what most companies do. So they should be treated differently.

But even if you don’t buy that, surely, given that they are covered by the FDIC and have been given a fuckton of free money as an industry means that the banks have a different responsibilities to the general good than a manufacturing firm or a tech startup (that I think also have some responsibility, but not as much). As long as banks have the taxpayers funneling money to them, and acting as a backstop, they should act as models of responsibility.

But they haven’t been responsible. JPMorgan Chase isn’t even bothering to make original fuckups.

So, a few heads should roll. I still don’t understand why no CEO’s lost their jobs. We should also make sure the regulations are as tight as possible. Or at the very least, we could stop giving free money to the people who will just gamble it away.


  1. 1

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The FDIC is funded by fees paid by insured banks, and while there is taxpayer exposure to claim overruns, so far taxpayers haven’t had to pony up. The recent bank bailout didn’t cost taxpayers any money, either. So far, the banks have borne their losses and essentially saved themselves, on a net-cost basis.

    That said, banks are parasitic leeches that bleed us all. Just prior to the 2007 crash, bankers pocketed 40% of all U.S. corporate profits — without producing anything. They were simply in a position to skim from the economy. They bled large corporate customers and small retail customers alike in various ways.

    Banks are somewhat like a Mafia protection racket: They make us pay them for not crashing the economy. For that reason alone, they should be more heavily regulated.

    P.S., if bankers who pay you 1/10th% on your savings can’t turn a profit by lending that money back to you at 13% to 32% on your credit card charges, then in my opinion we should fire those guys and get a new set of bankers.

  2. 2

    Bob spews:

    Er, JPM was FORCED to take the money so that it would look like all the big institutions needed it. If everyone took it, it would be harder to distinguish the banks in trouble from the banks that kept their noses clean.

    JPM has only one CEO so only one head could roll, not plural.

    JPM will still earn a profit in the quarter in which it books the loss. The profit will be lower, but it will be a profit.

    Look at JPM’s loss as equivalent to four Solyndras. Meanwhile, JPM is still paying taxes and the Federal government is still sucking in the taxes.

    That FDIC coverage comes at a price – the banks pay a premium for the coverage and that premium has gone up. The stronger banks lose money so that the FDIC can cover the weakest of the banks when they run into trouble. JPM hasn’t taken any FDIC money. It’s covered the government’s ass a couple of times when the government needed to offload a troubled asset and JPM had the wherewithal to acquire it.

    It wasn’t depositors’ money that JPM lost. It was JPM’s own investment capital. So JPM’s role as a bank was not compromised. There goes much of your rant.

    Investigate away – I fully agree it should be done. But JPM is skewered for making money, and now it’s skewered for making less money. Christ, it’s privately owned. It’s not just a source of government tax revenues. The shareholders voted to retain Dimon just yesterday. Heads did roll, but not at the highest levels. This isn’t like Spitzer and AIG, where one guy can force the top head to roll. That didn’t work out so well for AIG, did it? Although Spitzer did pretty well until he joined the list of politicians who can’t keep their dicks in their pants.

  3. 3

    Bob spews:

    @ 1

    The crash was in 2008, not 2007.

    Cite your source for the 40% comment, please.

    Credit card interest rates wouldn’t be nearly that high if banks didn’t have to boost rates on everyone else to cover guys like Steve. And because of so many guys like Steve, banks make a lot less than that margin might suggest. Further, banks only make a margin if you carry a balance. If you pay off the balance in full, banks make zero in interest, and a lot of people pay off the balance in full.

    JPM’s return on total capital is 2.5% I hear the Mafia does a little better than that.

    I see you wore your big plastic red nose and floppy shoes today, RR.

  4. 4

    Bob spews:

    @ 1

    One of the scariest things about blog formats of communication is that guys like RR can blanket the blog with tales of investment gains and imputed sage advice for the readers.

    And yet they also frequently demonstrate an incredibly fundamental misunderstanding of how the US finance system works, as he did above.

    He’s completely oblivious. And yet in the coming days he’s regale us with stories of stock flipping and other Jim Cramer-like activity as if he’s got some actual knowledge.

    Banks can pay depositors 0.1% because there are so many talking heads with no real experience out there, like RR, that depositors prefer to lose money relative to inflation rather than follow the comments of RR and put their money where he thinks it should go. They’re waiting for the smoke to clear.

    And RR produces way, way more than his share of smoke.

  5. 5

    rhp6033 spews:

    The CEO hasn’t lost his job because he controls the board. Usually this happens when directors are appointed by one another to the boards of other corporations or banks, creating a beb of directorships connecting each bank to one anther. They then select the CEOs from one of their own, and the CEO makes sure that his friends are well taken care of on the board.

    So in addition to their positions as CEO’s of their own companies, they usually are on the board of directors of several other companies. Ther director seats come with some pretty good perks – a hefty salary for what amounts to a few days work, corporate staff assigned to handle their duties as directors, corporate-owned jet and condo priviledges, executive retreats, etc. In addition, these fellow directors/CEOs sit on compensation committees deciding one another’s pay packages – where they all agree with one another that they all work too hard, are too valuable to the company, and aren’t paid enough – and give themselves raises, bonuses, and golden parachutes accordingly.

    So it’s a rair board that ousts a CEO for performance issues, or who reduces a CEO’s pay package. To do that the CEO needs to not only srew up big-time (in a very public way), but also make some enemies on the board, for one reason or another. Otherwise, the board is usually happy to accept a sacrifical lamb – if necessary, at the executive level – before ousting a CEO.

    At the stockholder level, some corporations and bank shareholders have the ability to oust a CEO by not approving a renewal of their appointment or pay package, but the issue is usually submitted to them by the board with few other acceptable options.

  6. 6

    Steve spews:

    @3 “Credit card interest rates wouldn’t be nearly that high if banks didn’t have to boost rates on everyone else to cover guys like Steve. And because of so many guys like Steve, banks make a lot less than that margin might suggest.”

    Got issues? Obviously.

    Another swing and a miss. Here’s a clue, you hopeless fucking twit, if you want to take an effective swipe at me, you have to come up with something that’s actually related to fucking reality.

  7. 7

    Bob spews:

    @ 6

    Reality is that if you have good credit, you don’t get hit with a 29.95% credit card interest rate.

    A good customer paying a 12% rate is worth far more to the bank than a deadbeat assessed at 29.95%. Banks don’t want to lose the good customers paying at 12%. They cost too much to re-acquire.

    You brought up your rate, Steve, not me. Think about it. That’s reality. Now go stand in line at CashAmerica.

  8. 8

    rhp6033 spews:

    The first private bank in the U.S. was founded in in the midst of the Revolutionary War by Robert Morris, a signer of the Declaration, in Philidelphia (along with others). It’s organization was based on a charter renewable yearly by the Philadelphia Assembly. It met a valuable need by collecting and consolidating capital to fund trade and the needs of the war, which was a considerable headache to him and the Continental Congress. But interest rates were tightly controlled – I forget the exact numbers, but I think the bank charged around 4-1/2% or so. It’s affairs were closely watched by the farmers and tradesmen which made up half the assembly.

  9. 9

    Bob the Professional Troll who gets paid to throw Horses ass off the rails spews:

    4. You are the scary one who is an obtuse oblivious right wing hack that acts as a “know it all” who really doesn’t know anything about investments.

    And as a right wing hack you are the one who is still allowed to derail this blog.

    The scary part is how much are you paid as a professional troll?

  10. 10

    Bob spews:

    @ 9

    Steve, I know enough not to get hit with 29.95% interest rates.

    I also wouldn’t blame the financial difficulties that caused me to get hit with a 29.95% interest rate on someone, or something else, but that’s probably a difference in how I was raised compared with how you were raised.

  11. 11

    Bob who is full of shit and lies spews:

    Bob you are so full of shit. I have excellent credit and had a 9 percent interest credit card with Washington Mutual and always paid off the credit card in full every month and on time.

    When Chase took over WAMU the first thing JP did to their “good” customers is raise their interest rate to 13 percent.

    Explain that? So, I don’t use the Chase credit card. I now use a credit union card with a much lower interest.

    Great that as a lying right wing asshole you are here defending the fucking banks you fucking liar.

  12. 12

    Max's wife -- please take it out of my.... spews:

    Bob has access to a data bank of talking points designed to obfuscate any issue and force the commenters to do a little reseach to expose Bob’s lie. Every one of Bob’s talking points will be refuted in short order.

    The one thing Bob cannot obfuscate but can only ignore is the fact that Mitt Romney hides his money in a secret Swiss bank account so that he can avoid paying the Mormon church’s 10% yearly tithe on gross income.

    If he’ll cheat his church, what will he do to you as president?

  13. 13

    Michael spews:

    What to do About JPMorgan Chase?

    Simple, be like Michael and don’t have an account at big bank or big brokerage firm. I make the same % on my money that I’d make if I were at one of the big ones. There’s no worries about credit card rates and fees when you don’t have a credit card. Rather than having a credit card with a 2K limit I have a 2k line of credit attached to my checking account at my local credit union. I rarely ever use it and get charged something like %6.75 when I do use it and the couple bucks I get charged in interest stays local and gets pt to good use.

    It does look like Chase screwed the pooch in a legal manner this time around.


  14. 15

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @3 Unless you’ve hacked Steve’s financial accounts, you don’t know whether he has to be “covered” or even whether he’s a borrower.

    And it’s not true that banks and credit card companies make a profit only if cardholders carry a balance. Every time you use a credit card the merchant pays a transaction fee of anywhere from 1.5% to 5% to the credit card company.

    The fact you don’t know this reveals you as a person with minimal knowledge of our financial system.

  15. 16

    Bob spews:

    @ 11

    If you always pay off on time then why does the interest rate matter?

    I didn’t bring up 29.95%, you did. Good customers don’t pay 29.95%. The ones that cause banks losses do, before the lender is forced to eat the loss.

    Everyone pays higher rates to cover the losses caused by the deadbeats, Steve. By telling us your 29.95% story you’ve told us you have been designated a high risk by the bank.

    That’s reality, even if you’re sorry you brought it up.

    @ 13

    Good advice as long as one has the credit-worthiness to have a LOC. Bet Steve doesn’t. And no, Steve, CashAmerica isn’t a credit line. It’s a last gasp.

  16. 17

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @3 “The crash was in 2008, not 2007.”

    Are you kidding? The credit system seized up in 2007, and by some accounts, the Great Recession officially begain in 2007.

  17. 18

    Michael spews:

    Jackup credit rates and late fees were a major profit center for big banks for a number of years. Not sure if that’s still going on as I don’t pay any attention to big banks anymore.

    Ride a bicycle. Bank at a credit union. Pay cash. Grow a garden. Corporate America will fucking hate you.

  18. 19

    rhp6033 spews:

    Credit card interest rates have little rational bearing to default rates. You have the “teaser” rates offered by some banks to get you to switch your money to them, in the expectation that they can raise the rates later for any reason they can think of – once you are stuck with the balance in their account, they have you over the barrell.

    Aside from that, the banks are pretty much determined to take a cut out of everything you do. They want you to quit using cash and use credit cards or debit cards instead. Then they collect a fee for each transaction from the merchant and – soon – from the buyer. Some have even started penalizing the merchants who accept cash or checks by charging a “chash deposit fee” – ostensibly for the burden of counting and handling the chash, in a bid toward pushing merchants towards credit and debit cards. In short, what used to be a free method of exchange provided by the government – cash as legal tender – they are replacing with a private currency consisting of electronic debits and credits, for which they charge their own fees.

  19. 20

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @4 If you want to put your money in 0.1% bank accounts, go right ahead. I’m putting mine in blue-chip stocks yielding 3% – 5% with reliable annual dividend increases. I’ll leave it to readers of this blog to decide for themselves whose financial advice they like better, yours or mine.

    As for stock flipping, that’s just sport, at least for me. I’ve never spent any of my stock market winnings and probably never will. I do it for love of the game.

  20. 21

    ArtFart spews:

    @7 etc. Well, actually not. BofA (among others) found a way to reinstate their policy which among other things states that anyone who’s a millisecond late with a single payment is subject to their interest being raised to a 29% “penalty rate” forever. And sure, banks make a few bucks charging merchants’ fees, but the real money now is in packaging up credit card debt into derivatives and allowing multiple institutions to toss it around like a bunch of hot potatoes, betting on who gets their fingers burned first. Just like with mortgages and student load debt.

  21. 22

    Bob spews:

    @ 15

    I am a merchant so I am aware of pass-throughs and interchange rates, and swiped vs phone rates, etc.

    In @1, RR, you said banks, not credit card companies. The banks get a small sliver of the initial fees and are on the hook for the carried balance when Steve-types default, which is why they have trouble making money on Steve-types even if they charge Steve-types high interest rates. They end up eating much of the debt because it’s unsecured or not worth repossessing. Really, does anyone really want to see the inside of Steve’s dwelling? It’s probably a box with an iPad inside, in front of a Starbuck’s.

    You don’t get to talk about the banks when you think no one really understands what you are saying and then switch to the credit card companies when you are scrambling to defend yourself.

    People should have called BS on you a long, long time ago.

  22. 23

    Bob spews:

    @ 20

    You do it because you think you build yourself up by bragging about it here. We’re all sick of it.

  23. 24

    rhp6033 spews:

    The problem, of course, is that we now have fewer banks, so that those that survived the Great Republican Rescession are even more Too Big to Fail. So much of our economy is tied up with them – business equipment financing and lines of credit to fund order fullfilment, individual banking, retirement and investment accounts of one sort of another, etc., that we simply can’t survive another collapse. A similar domino collapse and banking crisis during the Great Depression in th 1930’s forced the Bank Holiday and creation of national bank regulatory and insurance systems under FDIC etc. That took years becuase banks then were widely seperated geographically and much smaller. In 2008 the collapse occured relatively quickly due to the larger nature and inter-connectivity of the banks and investment companies. (The damage was already apparant by 2007, the public collapse was in 2008). A collapse in 2012 or 2013 would be even worse.

  24. 25

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @2, @5 – Bob apparently hasn’t been paying attention to news reports, because three heads have already rolled at JPM, and there’ll likely be more. Hint to Clueless Bob: JPM is not a one-person company. It also has vice presidents, department heads, head traders, etc.

    CEO Jamie Dimon, who apparently will keep his job, is widely regarded as the best of the big-bank CEOs. At least, he was, before this happened.

    As CEO, Dimon is the big-picture guy, whose job is to oversee broad business strategy and supervise the people who run the bank’s operations. He doesn’t know every detail of everything that happens in every department. No CEO can do that. When things go wrong in his company, he organizes the cleanup and makes personnal changes. He’s doing that.

    Moreover, Dimon did something this week that has become very rare in corporate America: He admitted the bank fucked up, he said there was no excuse for it, and he accepted responsibility.

    Dimon is not only a respected CEO, he’s also a class act. I don’t have a problem with him staying on at JPM. He didn’t personally cause this trading loss, and a $2 billion trading loss isn’t that big of a deal for a company of JPM’s size and assets. The taxpayers won’t get stuck with this.

    The media and politicians are hyping this event out of proportion. But given the political environment we have to operate in, I’ll take political leverage for more bank regulation any way I can get it, because I think we need more bank regulation. The 2007 crisis, and the depression it spawned, speaks for itself. The argument that we don’t need traffic rules or traffic cops on our roads, that drivers will govern themselves, is silly; and that reasoning is just as silly when it’s applied to the economy. History has repeatedly shown us that unregulated markets always destroy themselves.

  25. 26

    Bob spews:

    @ 24

    I have at least some confidence in the results of the stress tests.

    Don’t forget that a lot of what happened was accelerated by mark-to-market rules and since prices changed so quickly, shifts in assets and other adjustments couldn’t be made before things seized up. Doesn’t excuse it, of course.

    I read that mark-to-market was part of JPM’s problem with the current loss. Makes me wonder if some of that loss is paper and recoverable in future quarters. I think it is too soon to know and that JPM itself may not know. That final point is my biggest concern.

  26. 27

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 23: Nobody here is “sick of it”, except perhaps you. If you don’t like it, go elsewhere – RR has been a regular on this board for quite a while, while you hopped on for what is probably only this election.

    And your claims to be a merchant are no more verafiable here than RR’s claims to be a stock investor, so you are in no position to point fingers.

  27. 28

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @7 Banks aren’t required to lend to anyone. If they lend to deadbeats, and then charge them 29.95% interest to compensate for higher risk of loan defaults, it’s because they think that’s a profitable trade. And it is.

    What I said is that if bankers borrowing money for 0.1% and lending it for 29.95% can’t make a profit on the 29.85% spread, they’re incompetent and shouldn’t be in the banking business.

  28. 29

    Bob spews:

    @ 27

    Spend a few bucks registering with the state, get a MBA number. Go to Costco, sign up with Evalon, and you’re a merchant.

    There are bazillions of us. It’s not like it’s an exclusive club with a special handshake.

    Now go back and sit at the feet of RR while he recounts his exploits of buying VZ at 28 and flipping it at 31 for a cool $3 profit, which he used to go to Starbucks and buy a drip coffee, after which he dropped the change into Steve’s cup outside the store.

  29. 30

    rhp6033 spews:

    As far as Romney goes, there are several images which stick to me.

    The first is Romney leading a gang of bullys to beat up a student they presumed was gay. That’s a major character flaw, and shows romney himself was a bully, which generally consists of a moral coward who likes to push around those who are less lucky than he is.

    The second is the dog on the roof of the car. not only did the dog poop all over the car (an obvious sign of distress), but Romney washed off the dog with a hose and put him back on the roof of the car. Upon arrival at the destination, he opened the carrier and the dog bolted out, never to be seen again.

    I kind of have the feeling that with Romeny as president, we (the general public and the 99%) would end up riding on the top of the car.

  30. 32

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 29: We also have had a side business as an online merchante for the past ten years or so. And we actually sell products we produce, we aren’t “pretend” merchants who have little more than a state tax account number and business license. It’s a small market, so sales are small, but I’ve seen that side of the issue as well.

  31. 33

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @13 “when you don’t have a credit card”

    I have a credit card (just one), and I don’t advocate not having one. A credit card is useful for lots of things — traveling by air, buying merchandise online, having a record of your purchases, etc. And if something goes wrong with a purchase the credit card company will go to bat for you. Although I have a no-fee credit card and pay no interest because I pay the balance in full every month, I do pay for credit card services. Nominally, merchants pay for them through transaction fees, but they pass these costs through to consumers in the form of higher retail prices, and you’re going to pay those higher prices whether you use credit card services or not, so you may as well use them and enjoy their benefits.

  32. 34

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @16 “I didn’t bring up 29.95%, you did.”

    @11 didn’t bring up the 29.95% rate, you did @7. Apparently you can’t even remember what you wrote 26 minutes ago.

  33. 35

    Steve spews:

    I don’t own JP Morgan stock. There, I’m on topic.

    “You brought up your rate, Steve, not me.

    I shared how a bank once made a mistake with my credit card account. Since then, all you’ve done is make shit up that has no relationship with reality. Totally ineffective. Water off a duck’s back. Swings and misses.

    Let me help you out. The self-loathing black loon hates me. Why is that? It’s because he really is a self-loathing black man and he really is a fucking loon. Do you see the connect with reality, Bob? The racist goatfucker from Montana hates my fucking guts. Why? It’s because he’s a godamned morally degenerate racist amd he damn well knows it. There was that whining Randian piece of shit lostinaseaofblue. Marvin. A half a dozen asswipes named Mark. Piper. They all hated my fucking guts because I eventually see through their bullshit to who and what they really are and then I fucking stick it to them.

    There’s another story that plays out in these threads, Bob. To any troll who shows me character, wit and intelligence, I will build a bridge of friendship regardless of what anybody on the left might think of me for doing so. Alas, you don’t have anything like that going for you.

    “Think about it.”

    What I’m thinking is that you’re one stupid motherfucker, Bob, that you’re well on your way to hating my guts already, and I haven’t even really started with you yet. Keep posting. You’ll soon reveal all I need to know and then I’m gonna play you like a fucking fiddle.

  34. 37

    Bob spews:

    @ 32 @ 33

    Carry cash and use that for the small, newbie businesses. Restaurants, especially, since they fail so frequently.

    My ATC is around $700-800, so there might be 20 or even 30 bucks lost to the credit card transaction. Bet your ass the purchaser ends up paying for that some way.

  35. 38

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @3 “Cite your source for the 40% comment, please.”

    I’m not your fucking research assistant. If you want me to do that for you, then pay me. This information exists in countless places and you could find it in 30 seconds if you weren’t so goddam lazy. For the benefit of other readers here’s an illustrative cite:

    “Before the credit bubble burst in late 2007, America’s financial services industry was having a field day. Representing only 15% of corporate America’s gross value added and a mere 5% of private-sector jobs, the finance industry earned 40% of total corporate profits (Economist 3/22/2008).”


  36. 39


    I kind of have the feeling that with Romeny as president, we (the general public and the 99%) would end up riding on the top of the car.

    But it’s “on top”, shades of Bush’s “ownership society”..

    With Republicans it’s always a con job.

  37. 40

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @37 Of course the purchaser pays for it. I explained how @33. Do you even read the comments you refer to?

  38. 41

    dorky dorkman spews:

    One of the root causes of today’s credit card problems lies with a supreme court decision in:

    1978, Marquette vs. First of Omaha – Supreme Court allows banks to export the usury
    laws of their home state nationwide and sets off a competitive wave of deregulation,
    resulting in the complete elimination of usury rate ceilings in South Dakota and Delaware,
    among others.


  39. 42

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @36 I always wanted to be a movie star and finally realized my dream.

    What’s really important to remember here, though, is that Darcy Burner hugs rabbits and Republicans don’t.

  40. 43

    Bob spews:

    @ 40

    I posted four minutes after you did. So, no, I probably did not read what you wrote. I apologize for not being able to account for my activity in those four minutes, some of which were apparently spent writing what I posted, asswipe.

  41. 44

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @43 I’m not asking you to explain what you were doing in those 4 minutes. In fact, I don’t want to know.

  42. 45

    Bob spews:

    @ 38

    Ah. So it wasn’t just the bankers, then. It was GE Capital, GMAC, insurance companies, all the non-banking institutions that deal in money lending. You just oversimplified.

    Last I checked, GE Capital helped GE sell shit, like airplane engines and MRI scanners. GMAC helped sell cars. They once upon a time loaned money to home buyers.

    What I thought. Your number (thank you for sourcing) wouldn’t stand up to scrutiny.

    What a surprise.

  43. 46

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I’m not so sure Bob is a paid troll. I can’t see anyone paying for what he writes. That’s fifth-grade stuff.

  44. 47

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Rolling Heads Dep’t

    “The $2 billion trading loss at JPMorgan Chase has claimed another victim. Bruno Iksil, the so-called London whale at the center of the trading debacle, is leaving the bank ….

    “His exit follows the resignation Monday of Ina Drew, … who oversaw the disastrous trade as head of the chief investment office. Achilles Macris, a top JPMorgan official in London and a senior London trader, Javier Martin-Artajo, are also expected to leave.”


    Roger Rabbit Commentary: That’s four so far.

  45. 49

    Steve spews:

    Good grief! Bob has mentioned my name over a dozen times so far. He’s even responding to comments posted by others as though it’s me. Fuck, there’s actually something about Bob that troubles me – that it’s going to be so easy reeling this dumbfuck in that it probably isn’t going to be much fun. Sigh!

    Oh, as for the house and tin cup, Bob, your fucking with several of our troll’s narratives about how I live like a fucking Republican.

  46. 52

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @48 “Why does RR have such a big problem with bankers?”

    For the same reason I have a big problem with muggers and robbers.

  47. 55

    Bob spews:

    @ 53

    Fine. I learn a lot here. If you could add the adjective ‘reality-based’ I’d be thrilled.

    Maybe give a little more thought to your financial commentary, with an eye toward accuracy rather than idiocy. Of course, then half your posts would never materialize if you did.

  48. 56

    Steve spews:

    You’ll have to excuse me as well. I’m going to put down the tin cup, step out onto the course and hit a few to the green. And then I think I’ll practice my short game for awhile.

  49. 58

    that damn Max kicked their ass again spews:


    Some of us did call roger out on his bs a few years ago..its just easier to ignore the old fart now…..

  50. 59

    Michael spews:


    I was worried about those sorts of things when I went credit card free, but honestly, it hasn’t been a problem.

    Mostly, what I’ve done is created a lifestyle that allows me to live happily and comfortable. I’m not “credit card free” to screw over Visa, it just worked out that way and I’m happier this way and I do use a debit card a couple times a month. But, I do like that I have little exposure to corporate America (I also don’t own a TV and don’t listen to commercial radio) and have fun playing up the “rebel” end of my lifestyle.

  51. 60

    Steve spews:

    @57 “whack off”

    You’re not one of those stupid Psych 101 trolls, are you? I only ask because that shit started boring me to fucking death years ago.

    But to politely answer your question, no. Thanks to years of practice, I happen to have a very good golf short game and I have every intention of using it to dazzle the hell out of my friend Max. Heh.

  52. 62

    Steve spews:

    @58 “Some of us did call roger out on his bs a few years ago..”

    If you’re talking about the stock flipping, I also took exception to Roger posting his trades shortly after I came here but have long since dropped it. But the goatfucker was far worse with his Wells Fargo bullshit. That led to the Great Trade Confirmation Showdown I had with him. Goldy received confirmation of 100 to 200% gains in biotech trades I had recently made and the Klown was a complete fucking no-show. His Wells Fargo trades were such obvious bullshit.

  53. 67

    Bob spews:

    @ 64

    Actually, I do it by listening plenty. Just not to you. Took me not long at all to figure that out.

    Not long at all.

    Much more interested in what Michael, YLB, rhp have to say. They slightly more than offset the garbage coming from you.

  54. 69

    Steve spews:

    “I learn a lot here”

    You’re not fucking showing it. Go back and reread my advice to you @35. I may want a good game, but I’m sure as fuck not going to help you again. Now show me that you’re worth my fucking time.

  55. 70

    Bob spews:

    @ 69

    Who are those @35 people? No idea. I probably don’t care but I might at least know what you are talking about.

    I wonder why, if every third word out of you is a profanity directed at me, you think I might come not to like you. Any ideas, Steve? Anybody? Bueller?

    I must be worth your time if you pick different pseudonyms to engage with me, Steve. I’m not paid to be here. Actually, I think I would pay a subscription fee to BE here, if it were necessary. Or at least buy off Amazon through a link.

    I’m enjoying the banter and beginning to think about what it will be like logging on to this site at 8:01pm on the first Tuesday in November. I think I will enjoy it more than you will. If the best you can come up with is Romney’s dog and Romney’s boyhood years, you’re in a lot of trouble.

  56. 71

    max with the long and short game from hell spews:

    Uh oh, its not looking good for john edwards….oh my, what will ylb do?

    Will he get a jpm credit card to send flowers and “care packages” to mancrush johnny while he is getting slammed in the slammer…

    I can’t even fathom how people were taken in by this slimeball….

  57. 73

    Steve spews:

    “Who are those @35 people? No idea.”

    I hate to tell you this, Bob, but my Wingnut Decoder app just translated that one as “I’m really, really fucking stupid”.

    “I must be worth your time if you pick different pseudonyms to engage with me, Steve.”

    My, you really are Psych 101 material, Bob. Too bad I’m bored with that shit. I must admit though, Bob, that your delusions do offer some slight amusement. Please continue babbling my name and please do keep it your head that anybody that calls you a stupid fucktard is me. Because with that, my work will already be done.

  58. 78

    Bob spews:

    @ 71, 77

    What was the deal with Bill Richardson? By far the most qualified.

    I read he gave women the creeps. Touchy-feely without knowing he was doing it.

    Maybe I should refer to him as Judas instead of Bill Richardson.

  59. 79

    future engineer spews:

    @ 71: People are still talking about John Edwards? I honestly don’t think about him at all anymore, and don’t give a shit. He’s a two-time loser, a charismatic huckster, and a wannabe latter-day Bill Clinton. He aimed for the presidency twice, and couldn’t even secure his party’s nomination for it once. His greatest achievement was being nominated for VP with Kerry in 2004. The greatest thing he ever did was deliver a speech (“the Two Americas”), and God only knows if he actually wrote it himself.

    Back in 04 I thought he was sort of okay, because he spent a lot of time talking about poverty. He seemed too “slick” for me to vote for though. I voted for Dean in the caucuses that year. I had half a mind to vote for Kucinich; this was before it became as clear that he was more of a grandstander than a doer. In 08 I was mildly disenchanted with the entire field; as long ago as December 04 I had wanted Russ Feingold to run for the presidency. When that didn’t happen, my reaction to the news that Bernie Sanders was running for Senator was “Can’t we just make him President instead?” In the end I voted for Obama in both the caucuses and the general. I had and still have reservations about him, but he nevertheless seemed to me at the time, and still seems to me now, to be the most suitable person for the office.

  60. 80

    Steve spews:

    @78 What’s the deal with all the of the Republican sex freaks? Hell, a little touchy-feely comes across as somewhat normal behavior compared to diapers, paying $20 to blow undercover black cops in toilet rooms, fucking horses, dogs, watermelons and washing machines, and all the rest of the truly bizarre sexual behavior we’ve all seen revealed about Republicans. And what’s up with the fact that you people can’t talk about your own sexual abberation issues? It’s not like it’s going to go away if you ignore it or if you delude yourself into thinking that this isn’t a real problem. Oh, wait, “delude yourself”. Hmm, I think I see the problem.

  61. 81

    Michael spews:

    @59 The whole point of being credit-card free is so Visa can’t screw you.

    Well, there is that. All the huge losses like this one from JPM show just how fragile and volatile our banking and credit systems are. It’s nice to not be a part of that.

  62. 84

    Bob spews:

    @ 81

    It doesn’t show you that a loss can be managed by scale of the entity in which it occurred?

    Shaking off a $2B loss and still turning a profit in the quarter is sort of impressive.

    Think Disney and that $200M loss it booked on a bad bet on a MOVIE (John Carter). That’s a far larger hit to Disney than JPM took by losing $2B.

    Large companies frequently bet big. Sometimes the bet goes wrong. It’s not all that unusual.

  63. 85

    Steve spews:

    I hadn’t heard of that guy. But it’s difficult to keep up with them all. The sites that try to document this stuff have fallen way behind.

    There was that one Republican pedo who was wearing an animal costume when he was busted. He was anticipating the delivery of two little girls but instead it was the police knocking on his door.

  64. 86

    Bob spews:

    Dem voter alert:

    Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s wife found dead in home: report (NewsCore)

    No mention of a bridge.

  65. 87

    Michael spews:


    It doesn’t show you that a loss can be managed by scale of the entity in which it occurred?

    Sure. But, we’ve also seen big banks and companies disappear over night. I’m just saying that it’s good to hedge your bets. As to my personal lifestyle that’s as free from Big Corporate America as possible, it wasn’t something I set out to do, it just ended up that way.

  66. 88

    Michael spews:

    Well, Crap. Jean Craighead George author of the young adult novels My Side Of The Mountain, Julie Of The Wolves, and about a zillion other books has passed away.

    Newbery-winning author and naturalist, Jean Craighead George, who inspired many children to pursue careers in the natural sciences, died May 15 at the Westchester Medical Center in Valhalla, NY, from complications related to a stroke. She was 92.

    George wrote more than 100 books for young adults, including the Newbery Medal-winning Julie of the Wolves (Harper, 1972). Since writing her first book, Vulpes, the Red Fox (Dutton) in 1949, which she co-wrote with then-husband John L. George, she strived to bring a love of nature to her readers.

    George went on to connect readers with wildlife in her Newbery Honor book, My Side of the Mountain (Dutton, 1959), which tells a story of a 12-year-old boy named Sam Gribley who runs away from his cramped New York City apartment to find his grandfather’s abandoned farm in the Catskill Mountains. There he befriends a peregrine falcon and a weasel.

  67. 89

    Steve spews:

    Bob, when Rick Santorum’s young daughter became gravely ill, we did not make jokes about it here. Instead, many of us offered our prayers for that little girl’s speedy recovery.

    You delude yourself into thinking that you’re better than us. The truth is, you’re not.

  68. 90

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @74 Well let’s see. According to your link, the federal payroll is $105 billion and federal bonuses were $431 million, so that works out to 4/10ths of 1 percent; and as bonuses tend to gravitate to honchos, that means a typical federal worker got virtually nothing in bonus money.

    Eric Holder, as Attorney General of the United States, gets $199,000 a year. That’s slightly above the starting salary for a recent law school graduate at a typical large corporate law firm.

    For some strange reason, despite all these cushy gummint jobs with their high salaries and luscious perks, it’s still private sector folks who live in mansions and drive Porsches. Government workers don’t get that stuff.

  69. 91

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Anyone in the private sector who’s bitching about government salaries because he’s making less than government workers is a real loser, because the only way you can make less money than government workers is by not working at all.

  70. 92

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @82 I don’t like Obama, but I shill for him anyway, because Republicans are so much worse.

  71. 93

    Politically Incorrect - who has been banned over at soundpolitics.com spews:

    What to do about JP Morgan? Nothing. They lost $2 billion but other parties made $2 billion. Somebody was on the other side of the positions that JP Morgan took, and those folks profited handsomely.

    At the end of the year, when JPM announces annual earnings, the $2 billion will be forgotten, irrelevant, and moot.

    While I may not like the banksters, I’d say their financial accumen is far superior to the some total of the usual suspects and trolls who haunt this blog. JPM will be around for a long, long time. In fact, if you’re into individual issues, you might look at JPM as a good candidate for inclusion in your portfolio.

  72. 94

    Politically Incorrect - who has been banned over at soundpolitics.com spews:

    “Large companies frequently bet big. Sometimes the bet goes wrong. It’s not all that unusual.”

    That’s true. For example, Boeing bet the entire company on the 747 back in the late Sixties. Had the 747 not been a commercial success, Western Washington would have dried up and blown away. There were actually billboards in and around Seattle asking “Will the last person out of Seattle please turn out the light.”

  73. 95

    Steve spews:

    @92 “I don’t like Obama, but I shill for him anyway, because Republicans are so much worse.”

    As I asked the other day, what’s their beef? Obama is the best Republican president the Goopers have had since Bill Clinton was in office.

  74. 96

    MikeBoyScout spews:

    What to do about the US of Merika’s largest financial institution, JP Morgan Chase?

    Well, a good start would be to make it smaller. How small? Well, how about we start with not too big to fail?

    Next, re-institute Glass-Steagall.

    Oh, and heads on pikes wouldn’t be as bad as many bankers claim it could be.

    OR… we could give them free money at the Fed window. That’s worked well so far … right?

  75. 97

    Steve spews:

    @94 The 747 was announced in 1966 and Pan Am promptly ordered 25 of them. They first flew in service in 1970, the same year in which began a period lasting more than 1 1/2 years during which there wasn’t a single domestic order for any Boeing plane. The cancellation of funding for development of the SST followed in 1971. Unemployment then peaked at 17%.

  76. 98

    MikeBoyScout spews:


    The problem with JP Morgan Chase is all right there in the name.

    John Pierpont Morgan!
    And the Chase name was acquired and added not because of any association of Salmon Chase to the Bank of Manhattan (Rockefeller!), but as a marketing maneuver.

    The financial institution known as JP Morgan Chase has been screwing Americans for more than a century.

  77. 99

    MikeBoyScout spews:


    Had the 747 not been a commercial success, Western Washington would have dried up and blown away.

    Maybe. But let’s not forget that the 737 began development in 64, first flight in 67 and entered service in 68 and went on to be the most sold commercial airframe …EVER.

    Unlike JP Morgan Chase and its leadership, Bill Allen trusted his engineers and hedged his investments by betting the Boeing company on (ready?)
    – 707
    – 727
    – 737
    – 747

    All pretty damn good hedges bets; right in an aerospace company’s wheel house.

  78. 100

    Puddybud spews:

    Bob the Professional Troll who gets paid to throw Horses ass off the rails

    headless lucy that you? Number 70 doppelganger!

  79. 101

    Steve spews:

    @99 They also bet the company on the B-17 and there was heck of a lot more competition back then.

  80. 102

    Politically Incorrect - who has been banned over at soundpolitics.com spews:

    We should always remember that old Scoop Jackson was often referred to as “the senator from Boeing.” The guy knew which side of the bread had the butter, and Boeing had the butter and the butter knife!

    I saw Jackson once, at a wedding. In fact, I took a picture of him and the wedding party for the host and hostess. He surely was a short little fucker!

  81. 103

    Politically Incorrect - who has been banned over at soundpolitics.com spews:

    Would somebody do me a favor and ask the people over at Sound politics why they won’t let me post anything? I think it’s because I pissed-off Tim Eyman, but I’m not sure.

  82. 106

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Sure looks like the conservatives who insisted on austerity will succeed in blowing up Europe’s economy. I suppose we’re next.

  83. 108

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The autopsy report says Trayvon Martin was shot from an “intermediate” distance, whatever that means. What it seems to mean is Zimmerman shot him for revenge after Martin beat the crap out of him.

  84. 109

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 99: Boeing did indeed “bet the company” on the initial commercial jet aircraft, from the 707 through the 747. It also bet it’s own money on the 757, 767, and 777.

    But in all fairness, we should note that it wasn’t exactly a blind bet. Boeing already had the military contracts for several pressurized jet aircraft, and used that expertise to build the first commercial jet aircraft. In later years the import-export bank became an important government subsidy/insurance program for Boeing, even though it never cost Boeing or the federal government any money.

    The DeHaviland Comet was the first commercial jet aircraft in the skies, delivering to BOAC in the early 1950’s but it suffered some fatal design flaws (rectangular windows, in-wing engines, metal fatige at rivet holes, etc.). We will never know exactly why several of them fell out of the sky while full of passengers, within two years the entire program was suspended. This left the competition to Boeing and Douglas. Boeing offere the Dash 8, which was later knkown as the Boeing 707. Douglas offered the DC-8. The Boeing entry won out in the competition for the Pan American orders, which was the premier overseas carier at the time.

  85. 110

    No Time for Fascists spews:

    108. Roger Rabbit spews:
    The autopsy report says Trayvon Martin was shot from an “intermediate” distance, whatever that means. What it seems to mean is Zimmerman shot him for revenge after Martin beat the crap out of him.

    Trayvon may have scuffled with the creep with a gun to get the pervert away from him but the video evidence showed no signs of Zimmerman being beaten to a crap. It didn’t show him being touched.
    The boy got away, so Zimmerman shot him. And the police department did not do their job.

  86. 111

    zzippy spews:

    This “Bob” troll HAS to be paid… Otherwise, how could he/she stand spending so much time writing so much (clever but transparent) shit?

  87. 112

    Puddybud spews:

    Trayvon may have scuffled with the creep with a gun to get the pervert away from him but the video evidence showed no signs of Zimmerman being beaten to a crap.

    Who said that Fascist? ABC News has the doctors report!

  88. 114

    doggril spews:

    @3 – You don’t have your facts straight. The AVERAGE interest rate for people carrying balances is 12.78 percent. And over 56 percent of consumers carry an unpaid balance. So, the banks are making plenty of money. And they’re not losing much from deadbeats, as the current 30 day delinquency rate is 2.93 percent. As for their profit, well, they’re laughing, as it were, all the way to…themselves. According to Morgan’s press release, for this quarter, “JPMORGAN CHASE REPORTS FIRST-QUARTER 2012 NET INCOME OF $5.4 BILLION, OR $1.31 PER SHARE, REVENUE OF $27.4 BILLION…” Simple math shows that to work out to a profit of almost 20%–not quite the picture of poverty that you try to paint.

  89. 115

    No Time for Fascists spews:

    If the cops had done their jobs, we would have a better understanding of what happened.
    Video tape evidence right after he murdered Trayvon did not show any signs of his “injuries”. He refused to be seen by the paramedics at the time. His doctor lists injuries but we have not proof beyond his personal notes. Who’s to say Zimmerman realized he needed an alibi and hurt himself during the night. Maybe the doc is a long time family friend and is lying?

    We don’t know, because the police department didn’t care that a black kid was murdered and didn’t bother to do their job.

  90. 116

    Puddybud spews:

    Credit card interest rates have little rational bearing to default rates. You have the “teaser” rates offered by some banks to get you to switch your money to them, in the expectation that they can raise the rates later for any reason they can think of – once you are stuck with the balance in their account, they have you over the barrell.

    Well then rhp6033 you have little if any financial leverage.

    First pay your bills ON TIME! That is over 30% of your credit score.
    You get your own credit report.
    You check it for errors.
    You call the credit reporting agencies and get it corrected.
    You request the corrected report FREE.
    We found out having many credit cards with no balance is actually bad.
    And fast closing those extra credit card accounts will cause your credit scores to be lowered. That sucks.
    Because I travel all the time my credit card is over the 10% threshold so I get dinged for that. Nothing I could do. It’s the nature of my job.
    Pay for that new phone don’t do it on credit. They hit your credit score!
    We also found out if we took student loans out for their college education my credit score would increase. NO THANKS!
    You take it to the bank and show them you have a great credit score.
    Last we officially checked it was above 780. No I will not tell you the exact number.
    You negotiate a low credit card rate. We did and anyone with a long term job and great credit can do the same.

    See ya! No real excuse for lousy credit score or not paying your bills on time.

    Will within your means. Don’t keep up with the Joneses.

  91. 117

    Puddybud spews:

    Fascist lover,

    ABC News has his head pictures and the doctor’s report the prosecution had. See for yourself.

    Regarding that video you discuss here is the “enhanced version“.

    Maybe you will whack yourself on the head. And the camera video of him arriving at police headquarters is not that good.

  92. 118

    Michael spews:

    Just thought I pass this along.


    Trayvon Martin Case Shadowed by Series of Police Missteps.

    Some Sanford officers were skeptical from the beginning about certain details of Mr. Zimmerman’s account. For instance, he told the police that Mr. Martin had punched him over and over again, but they questioned whether his injuries were consistent with the number of blows he claimed he received. They also suspected that some of the threatening and dramatic language that Mr. Zimmerman said Mr. Martin uttered during the struggle — like “You are going to die tonight” — sounded contrived.

  93. 119

    Oscarphone spews:

    RE: 12. Max’s wife — please take it out of my….

    You sez: “. . . the fact that Mitt Romney hides his money in a secret Swiss bank account so that he can avoid paying the Mormon church’s 10% yearly tithe on gross income.”

    Prove it cunt face. Just cuz you make shit up doesn’t make it true. So prove it asshole, with a link to the “fact”. I’ll bet that Romney contributes a fuck of a lot more to charity than Obama or Biden. And I’m not comparing the church giving ‘tween these three. Big spender Biden and his wife gave an average of $369 a year to charity during the past decade. According to his tax records, of the $1.2 million the Obama’s earned from 2000 through 2004 they gave LESS than 1% to charities. Romney rolled in at 15% to charity and that doesn’t include the 10% to the church. So, did Barack and Joe give their fair share?

    Not those tight asses.

  94. 120

    dorky dorkman spews:

    re 119: “Prove it cunt face.” Thanks for the laugh quim-squirt.

    But that’s the whole point. It’s a secret account. You and I can speculate, but no one can prove or disprove anything about it.

  95. 121

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @80 I don’t have a problem with Republicans fucking washing machines, if it means fewer Republicans in the future. Who ever got a washing machine pregnant?

  96. 122

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    It almost makes you feel sorry for Republican women. They have to fuck Democrats to get laid.

  97. 123

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @116 “No real excuse for lousy credit score or not paying your bills on time.”

    Except for the fact the capitalist system doesn’t provide paying work for everyone who needs paying work in order to live.

  98. 124

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Don’t worry pudnuts, your turn to become obsolete and get furloughed from the workforce will come, as it does for everyone. Perhaps sooner than you expect.

  99. 125

    Puddybud spews:

    Max’s wife — please take it out of my

    Wow headless lucy’s 71st doppelganger… Stupid Solution Steve is no where to be found!

  100. 126

    Puddybud spews:

    It almost makes you feel sorry for Republican women. They have to fuck Democrats to get laid.

    And the Dumb Wabbit knows this how?

  101. 127

    Puddybud spews:

    Except for the fact the capitalist system doesn’t provide paying work for everyone who needs paying work in order to live.

    So the socialist system will?

    So the communist system will?

  102. 129

    Please Max, don't hurt 'em spews:


    funny thing is, there are more DC-8s in service now than 707’s.

    it should also be mentioned that the Russians were #2 in getting a jet airliner in service, behind the Comet, but beating the 707.

    its an interesting history(jetliners)..

  103. 130

    Please Max, don't hurt 'em spews:

    110. No Time for Fascists spews:
    108. Roger Rabbit spews:
    The autopsy report says Trayvon Martin was shot from an “intermediate” distance, whatever that means. What it seems to mean is Zimmerman shot him for revenge after Martin beat the crap out of him.

    Trayvon may have scuffled with the creep with a gun to get the pervert away from him but the video evidence showed no signs of Zimmerman being beaten to a crap. It didn’t show him being touched.
    The boy got away, so Zimmerman shot him. And the police department did not do their job.

    05/16/2012 AT 9:01 PM

    how come the progressives keep changing their story to fit the facts as they are released?

    its kinda funny to see you guys squirm and morph your theories to fit your agenda.

  104. 131

    Please Max, don't hurt 'em spews:

    124. Roger Rabbit spews:
    Don’t worry pudnuts, your turn to become obsolete

    and your turn to become obsolete was in about 1971…

  105. 132

    GetFactsFirst spews:

    JP Morgan’s Diamin is Obama’s Wall Street Buddy.
    Obama is running around praising this scoundrel.
    Wow. BTW, Obama’s have over a million with JPM..and look at the campaign contributions.
    Hope and Change??
    Yeah, right.

  106. 134

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @127 That’s quite a leap, putz. My comment didn’t imply replacing the capitalist system with a different system. Anyone who’s been reading this blog longer than 2 days would realize I’m as capitalist as they come. I’m certainly not advocating kicking capitalism to the curb. I merely advocate maintaining a safety net for those whom capitalism kicks to the curb. I don’t believe anyone should starve just because some tycoon miscalculated his ability to make his bank loan payments.

  107. 135

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @132 Yeah, Obama’s a Wall Street toady,* I’ve been saying that for years. Basically, they all are. Care to explain how voting for Mittster improves things for the average person?

    * Which doesn’t stop rightwing stupes from calling him a “socialist.”

  108. 137

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @131 It was a little later than that, but I’ve been comfortably unproductive for quite a few years now. And I’m better off now than ever before. Joining the Unproductive Class improved my material circumstances exponentially. It took me a while to figure it out, but working just doesn’t pay in this country, so why should anyone work?

  109. 138

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @130 Who’s squirming? Zimmerman should be. The legal situation hasn’t changed. Given our evolving knowledge of the facts, he’s still a vigilante, and Martin is still an innocent dead teenager. That’s not going to change.

    How is it that Zimmerman, the instigator and killer, had a right to “defend” himself but Martin, a mere kid and pedestrian, did not? If someone hassled me the way Zimmerman hassled Martin, I’d kick the crap out of him, and he’d have it coming.

    You can’t pick a fight with a stranger and then claim “self defense” if he whups your ass. Martin would have been legally justified in shooting Zimmerman because Zimmerman started the fracas, was armed, and presented an imminent threat of death or grave bodily injury to Martin (as events proved).

    Zimmerman had no legal justification whatever to shoot Martin. He’s a killer, and the fact he shot Martin from a distance goes to whether he should be convicted of murder or manslaughter, but he clearly should be convicted of one or the other.

  110. 139

    dorky dorkman spews:

    re 127: “So the socialist system will?

    So the communist system will?”

    It’s not either or. Haven’t you ever heard of Fabian Socialism?

    …and that’s not the guy who recorded Turn Me Loose

  111. 140

    Puddybud spews:

    Your wife told me.

    Nope. But she was surprised how short you are for a wabbit. Kind of undersized.

  112. 141

    Puddybud spews:

    I merely advocate maintaining a safety net for those whom capitalism kicks to the curb.

    Well cough it up libtard wabbit!