What Carla said…

Over on Blue Oregon, Carla says what a lot of folks have been afraid to say out loud:

Its not as if I don’t understand what its like to have a wonderful and beloved job in politics. I’ve had that. But when my teenagers (who were not actually in any trouble or crisis) began to show signs of needing their mother’s guidance and presence in a more profound way, I gave up that job to do what I knew was right for them.

Isn’t that what “family values” is supposed to be all about? Or is being a secular progressive a “family-values” nonstarter in the eyes of conservatives, no matter what? And does being an anti-choice, book-banning, global-climate-change denier mean otherwise, no matter what?

Sarah Palin either deliberately placed her pregnant, 17-year old daughter directly into this ridiculous media scrutiny–putting her in the position of being eaten alive by the rabid tabloid press–or she didn’t know that her child was 5 months pregnant. Neither of those scenarios speaks especially well of Ms. Palin as a “family-values” candidate, in my view.

Read the whole thing.  Really.  Then pass it around.

Comments

  1. 1

    Ward Cleaver spews:

    Let me understand the objection: are we saying here, in a 50’s sexist way, that only mothers of young children shouldn’t participate in hard political (or other, I guess) jobs, or are we saying here, in a 90’s touchy-feely way, that both mothers and fathers of young children shouldn’t participate in hard political jobs that take alot of time away from family?

    If the former, well fuck you. It is the 2000s, not the 50s. Dads can raise the kids at home and Moms can work. Or both can work. Families and family values in the USA embrace all those options and have for decades.

    If it is the latter, that disqualifies Palin and Obama of course. They both have young kids who will in fact get little of least one parent’s time for the next 4 years. (Actually, the VP job probably isn’t so hard, so only Barack of those two would really be neglecting his kids.)

  2. 2

    spews:

    Goldy, right after you ask if the Times editorial board is sexist, you suggest a woman’s place is in the home raising her children?

    Amazing.

    And please, don’t even try to explain your way out of this one.

  3. 4

    spews:

    Ward & Troll…

    If Todd Palin were a house daddy (like I was for the first three years of my daughter’s life), this wouldn’t be such an issue. But he’s not. He works a full time job, has a commercial fishing business on the side, and races snowmobilies competitively.

    And if the Palins didn’t have a four-month-old Downs baby AND a pregnant 17-year-old daughter, it wouldn’t be such an issue. But they do.

    But how dare they parade around as the family values party while ignoring the needs of their own children, all the while attacking and belittling the values of parents like Carla, simply because we don’t believe in their god or their bullshit, antiquated sexual morality?

    If it had been the Obamas with a pregnant teenage daughter, imagine the shit storm that would have instantly disqualified him from the White House. Had it been an unmarried, 30-year-old Chelsea Clinton who announced she was pregnant, she would have been ridiculed and abused from pulpits and TV studios nationwide as a shining example of declining moral values of the liberal elite. But Bristol Palin gets knocked up, and her mother’s values are applauded for forcing the kid into a shotgun wedding?!!! That’s just plain fucked up.

    It’s your side who are the hypocrites, not mine. And Carla is merely putting in words what millions of American moms and dads have been thinking all week.

  4. 5

    My Goldy Itches spews:

    @4

    “If it had been the Obamas with a pregnant teenage daughter, imagine the shit storm that would have instantly disqualified him from the White House. Had it been an unmarried, 30-year-old Chelsea Clinton who announced she was pregnant, she would have been ridiculed and abused from pulpits and TV studios nationwide as a shining example of declining moral values of the liberal elite”

    You would have never heard about the Obama’s daughter or Chelsea Clinton getting pregnant because they would have had abortions and you know it.

  5. 6

    ArtFart spews:

    Crikeys! At least the Palin family didn’t end up doing a real-life re-enactment of Stephanie Daley.

  6. 7

    W. Klingon Skousen spews:

    re 1: Let me explain it to you in a way that you cannot fail to understand: Sarah Palin is a terrible mother and a person of such little substance that the appearance of being in touch with real family values is a reasonable substitute in her mind for actually being a good mother who puts her family first.

    Your hubris at supposing that your niggling little jabs at pointing out supposed inconsistencies in our position has any real effect reminds me of a story of a moralistic twit with a log in his eye.

  7. 9

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Troll of 1000 Names @1: The point is to criticize Republican double standards (“Darcy should stay home with her child”) and hypocrisy (“family values, but politics foremost”), which of course flew completely over your cement-filled skull.

  8. 10

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @4 What it boils down to is they want to tell everyone else how to live, but don’t want to follow any rules themselves.

  9. 11

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Inmate of Alternative Reality @5: “You would have never heard about the Obama’s daughter or Chelsea Clinton getting pregnant because they would have had abortions and you know it.”

    And you think it wouldn’t have been plastered on the front page of the Enquirer within days?

  10. 12

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @8 So, according to your definition of “family values,” if a teenager who isn’t ready for parenthood and can’t support herself or her child makes a mistake, society should throw them both under the bus.

    What’s missing from the whole Republican discussion of morality and values is what happens to the innocent and helpless victims of adult irresponsiblity. Because we live in a world in which all humans are imperfect,* and some are very imperfect, dealing with the consequences of human failings is a social necessity.

    Viewed from this perspective, Republican ideology with its insistence on behavorial perfection and its disdain for remedies for human error is inherently immoral.

    * Rabbits are the only perfect species. That’s why we’re going to take over this planet after you humans disappear.

  11. 13

    My Goldy Itches spews:

    12 – Not with medical privacy laws being what they are. Are you telling me that neither Obama’s daughter or Chelsea Clinton could have gone to the Dr. for an abortion without the press knowing about it? Have you not been to the Dr. in the last several years? They don’t let you leave the office without inundating you with pamphlets about their HIPPA policy.

  12. 14

    Charlie Kee spews:

    Goldy ..

    as a Dad and as caring person, I find Palin’s concepts of human compassion sadly lacking.

    1, Unless he and Todd (or whoever) got drunk one night, SHE decided to conceive knowing there was a 1/36 chance she would be making a Down’s baby. Then she turned this person, who will have a lot of special needs, over to her sister to care for.

    The Animal Shelter in Seattle would not apporve giving Palin a kitten under that sort of rules!

    2. Unless she is blind, Sarah P must have noticed the increase in Bristol P’s girth. To know that your dotter has been knocked up and the to set her dotter up this way????

    Can you imagine what the Repricans would be saying if Hillary or Michelle made decisions llke these?

    Who wants to trust their boys and girls to serve under a CIC with this sort of attitude. Does she give a fuck what happens to them in Iraq?

  13. 15

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    In my opinion, the Palin family circus is merely a sideshow. The main issue is Palin herself as a potential national leader. We have two things by which to judge her: (1) Her record as mayor and governor, and (2) her public utterances.

    (1) As a politician, Palin has been a polarizing dogmatic who misuses public office for personal vendattas and misrepresents her record on things like earmarks.

    (2) Palin’s acceptance speech was full of cutesy but substanceless jabs at the opposition. That’s grade-school stuff. On the other hand, she said almost nothing about the problems facing our country or how she would solve them. The reasonable inference is that she has no idea how to solve our problems.

    Move along, folks. Nothing to see here.

  14. 16

    GBS spews:

    My Goldy Itches spews:

    You would have never heard about the Obama’s daughter or Chelsea Clinton getting pregnant because they would have had abortions and you know it.

    There’s reason why there is a shit storm over Sarah Palin’s family values and not the Obama’s family values: The Obamas pratice the family values that Palin’s preach.

    Want to debate it?

  15. 17

    SolvayGirl spews:

    Here’s a woman sounding in again…you guys like to talk for us all the time.

    Here’s the very difficult reality of all people–men and women–in the real world. Sometimes you have to sacrifice your career for the sake of your family. Obama has no crisis in his family at the moment, so he’s exempt in this case.

    In Sarah Palin’s case, it is the issue that her daughter will now have to bear her unintended pregnancy and shotgun wedding in the international spotlight, not that Palin is a mother. I, for one, could not do that to my child. Palin is gambling her daughter’s privacy and future (she might be better off giving the child up for adoption, but that wouldn’t be the Republican thing to do) on the 50/50 chance that she will ride McCain’s coattails into the White House. WIll it be worth it? Only time will tell, but considering that most 17-yr-old girls have a love-hate relationships with their mothers, it sure isn’t going to make life easy for Sarah and Bristol.

    And…to the poster who claims that since Bristol will be an adult when she gives birth and will no longer be Sarah’s (or our) responsibility, let’s see how that one plays out.

  16. 18

    GBS spews:

    My Goldy Itches spews:

    12 – Not with medical privacy laws being what they are. Are you telling me that neither Obama’s daughter or Chelsea Clinton could have gone to the Dr. for an abortion without the press knowing about it? Have you not been to the Dr. in the last several years? They don’t let you leave the office without inundating you with pamphlets about their HIPPA policy.

    Have you read the fineprint in your Medical Insurance policy lately?

    After you do, and if you have an adult read it for you and ‘splain the big words, be sure to thank your Republican leaders who sucked up to corporate America.

    Trust me when I say your priavte medical records are no longer as priavte as you think.

    Moron.

  17. 19

    ArtFart spews:

    16 “In my opinion, the Palin family circus is merely a sideshow. The main issue is Palin herself as a potential national leader.”

    No, the main issue is that the entire Republican party has turned into a craven, self-deluding, bloodthirsty, neofacist freak show.

    Evil is evil, whether it’s wearing a whispy white comb-over or stilettos and lipstick

  18. 20

    Reformed republican spews:

    Again, all this family vaues stuff is besdies the point. Palin is unqualified to be a 72 year old heartbeat away from the Presidency because:

    1. She has NO foreign policy experience

    2. She has run no large national organization – Obama has run a national campaign and sponsored over 400 bills and authored over 140 bills – far more than McCain who rarely shows up to even vote, and when he votes it is over 95% with Bush (so much for change).

    3. She has supported a successionist party – the AIP (Alaska Independence party) that wants to scucced from the union. Her husband is a member and she has attended twoi conventions including one in her hometown where she was a keynote speaker. In essence, she is a traitor to the USA.

    4. She is under an ethics investigation and has tried to stop people from testifying. that makes her corrupt and angainst reform. She also lied in her first major speech – she supported earmarks, including the bridge to nowhere and wrote a memo as mayor cheering the federal earmarks for her area. She also raised taxes as a governor – another lie.

    5. She believes and supports abstinence only education – that has been shown to NOT work. In addition, she supports creationism teaching in the public schools – this has been shown to be unscientific. Sarah Palin is against real science.

    6. Palin is anti-abortion even in the case of rape and incest. This extreme view is anti-women and far out of the mainstream. Imagine the Supreme court justices she would nominate with that litmus test.

    7. She knows absolutely nothing about the economy. Of course, that is the same as McCain…so it is not an automatic disqualification.

    No she is not ready to become president, regardless of gender.

  19. 21

    Rick D. spews:

    Goldy’s suffering from Palin Derangement syndrome after only 7 days since she’s been in the spotlight. Don’t look now, but I think David Gold stain’s misogynst streak is finally emerging. No worries though, after November, the plug is pulled on this site anyway.

    In Goldy’ retard logic, the community Organizer is ready to be in the driver’s seat as long as his TRAINING WHEELS (read Joe Biden) is in the car seat next to him helping him steer and brake. yyyyyyyaaaaaaayyy Barack, you’re doing it son.

    Meanwhile, the left is panting about Palin, who’s actually made countless executive decisions, not being “experienced” enough for the # 2 spot. Hey asshats, McCain is 72 and his mother is still kicking…good genes…is hereditary dumbasses. If Palin is unqualified, Obama is equally if not more unqualified for VP let alone the top spot.

    Goldy’s marionettes: Take off your tin foil hats, turn it upside down and empty the contents of your wallet and pass it along to Goldy….he’ll be eternally grateful for your combined contributions of $2.23, (2)Trojenz rubbers (expiration date 1993), and (7) strands of lint.

    There’s always that cookbook idea, goldy …

  20. 22

    mark spews:

    Goldy, you are right to be worried about Palin.
    She is sharp as hell, effective at her job, and
    hot. And you know it. She will bring home the
    trophy for the GOP. Yeeahhhhhh.

  21. 23

    spews:

    Will someone help me out here? Is David Goldstein saying two parents who both work are bad parents? That one parent MUST be a stay at home parent or the child isn’t be raised right?

  22. 24

    Reformed republican spews:

    As we have seen, executive experience is over-rated. Bush was an “executive” as governor of Texas and limped his way through business school when he couldn’t get into law school.

    So much for executive experience…trolls are idiots. Palin is unqualified and not too bright either. She will help lose the election and McCain should have had better vetting. His judgement is now in question.

  23. 25

    Reformed republican spews:

    I love Rick D. – he is the poster child for the brainless republican. Keep posting Rick – I laugh at what a fool you are every time.

    No substance – but lots of partisanship. You contradict yourself almost every time you post. You tolerate corruption, lies and stupidity. As long as it is republican, it is OK. Thanks for the amusement – I always wanted to see the inside working of the insane, partisan half-wit.

  24. 26

    Rick D. spews:

    I’d take executive experience over an over-hyped signature gatherer from Chicago’s south side slum disctict 7 days a week and twice on sunday.

    You HA trolls will be squealing until November 5th…..then you’ll be whining about how the election was stolen- just like in 2000, and 2004 after that- At some point in your lives, you liberals have to grow the fuck up.

    McCain/Palin is your future. Deal with it.

  25. 27

    Rick D. spews:

    Thanks Reformed. you just made my point for me.

    You’re either ignorant or deluded if you think Obama has any kind of qualifications for the position. Probably a nice dosage of both I’m guessing. but you’ve drunk the kool aid and now have to live with it……put the blinders on Reformed and just wait til November 5th when you wake up and your world is shattered. The cult of personality Obama will be shunned by the electorate and you’ll sink into a deep depression just like when most cult members are awakened from their stupor.

    Like I said, it’s your future son, embrace it.

  26. 28

    spews:

    Goldy, let’s see if you’re consistent.

    I want you to denounce Joe Biden for not quitting his job and staying home full time to raise his kids after his wife and daughter were killed in a car crash.

    He abandoned his remaining children who needed a full time parent at home by keeping his job. He claims to care so much about his kids – to be a man of family values – so why didn’t he stay home to raise them? That is what a good parent would have done, right? The kids needed him there full time, right?

  27. 30

    Rick D. spews:

    Me thinks Goldy’s inner misogynist is showing. He’s a full time hater of anything that doesn’t fit the liberal paradigm and that is why he’s attacking Palin who’s Married, has children and most of all, is successfull.

    Goldy’s Philadelphia manhood is threatened by A “tougher in Alaska” female. She Hunts, Goldy blogs…She’s a great B-Ball player, Goldy surfs porn…she’s a pilot, Goldy flies down to Vegas on Delta once or twice a year…she’s married with children, Goldy’s home alone cooking TV dinners. Hell, now I understand why she’s the focus of all of his posts the past week. She’s everything he’s not.

    Finally, for the night, Goldy got fired from a radio DJ position for chrissakes…..how much talent does that take? Come November, he won’t even have this cesspool to slog around in and spread lies and half truths to fit his agenda.

    Don’t look now, but I predict Demokid is about to be a hypocrite in 3….2….1

  28. 31

    spews:

    @31

    That kind of talk isn’t welcome here. Here at HA, we like to stick to the issues. Maybe this blog isn’t for you if you don’t like talking issues.

  29. 32

    spews:

    @32

    I actually thought he was a good talk radio host. I think he should try to do that again, but I also think he should think about politics, even on a small scale.

  30. 33

    demo kid spews:

    @30: I want you to denounce Joe Biden for not quitting his job and staying home full time to raise his kids after his wife and daughter were killed in a car crash.

    Urggh… the conservative brain trusts around here just don’t get it.

    If Palin is putting her family and her faith front and center for people to see, she deserves the scrutiny. If you’re presenting the idea that you’re a devout evangelical, but you and your family cannot live up to the basic ideas of your faith, what does that mean? If your daughter is able to have her child and receive support from her family, but you as governor have slashed support for sex ed programs and services for unwed mothers, what does that mean?

    And if your party actively condemns people “without morals”, yet the actions that you take are just as flawed, how can you claim the high moral ground?

  31. 34

    spews:

    @35

    My God you’re stupid. I don’t even believe in God and I know that just because someone says they are a person of faith doesn’t mean they are claiming they are perfect.

  32. 35

    westello spews:

    Okay, as I said elsewhere (but it bears repeating), and I paraphrase Jackie Kennedy here; If you don’t do right by your children, you haven’t done much.

    It is not ours to decide if the Palins are good parents. As long as they take care of their kids and don’t abuse them, they are the parents they are. Do I agree with their choice? No. You can’t support a newly wedded (and new mother) from thousands of miles away while you have a brand-new high profile job. Special needs kids need lots (I know, I have one). But it’s their choice to make.

    There are a lot of rumors swirling around and the facts (reported in the Alaskan newspapers) seem to prop up some of them. At the very least, there’s a lot of troubling facts about the birth of Palin’s last child. Today the former business partner of Palin’s husband asked for a seal on his divorce papers. Odd. And then there’s Troopergate.

    I grew up in small town and one thing you learn is that someone, somewhere knows something. There are really no secrets. Palin shouldn’t count on that and if she has involved others in hiding the truth, it’s conspiracy. Good luck with that one.

    But, in the end, it’s about issues. What can McCain/Palin offer except excuses for the last 8 years, more “fight team fight” rhetoric, more sarcasm, and no real plan for health care, the environment, the war in Iraq (and Afghanistan which they never seem to mention)?

    I think the debates will tell all (unless Palin loses her good luck charm and the truth comes out). McCain sounds old and tired. His “I love America” is great but what does it give us in value? Her “I sold the jet on EBay” bullshit is just that; it didn’t sell on Ebay and it sold at a loss.

    I feel good about Obama and Biden.

  33. 36

    Quincy spews:

    I can not abide this line of attack on Palin. It is both wrong on substance and bad politics. I know that goodhearted people can have concern for the Palin family and can wonder if she is really doing the right thing. SolvayGirl @18 puts it pretty well. But you know what, it’s not up to any of us to pass judgement on it, one way or the other. If women have a choice in how to live their lives, then women have a choice. There is a whole panoply of things to attack Palin on. We don’t need this one.

  34. 37

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @20 What dictates the order of “charitable organizations, local government, federal government”? Take Katrina, for example. That disaster was so big that only the federal government had sufficient resources to deal with it. Unfortunately, it choose not to, and there were human consequences. Private charity is fine, as far as it goes, but I don’t believe for one second that victims of the global economy should depend for survival on food banks or private donation. Taking care of its citizens is a fundamental obligation of government and a basic reason why government exists. The correct answer to any situation is “whatever works best.” Sacrificing that for the sake of upholding some dogma is, at best, malfeasance and, at worst, criminal.

  35. 39

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @23 “Palin, who’s actually made countless executive decisions,”

    What executive decisions has she made besides firing a police chief, trying to fire a librarian, putting some state assets on eBay, and handing out state checks to citizens?

    It’s pretty damn easy to be governor of a state that has no taxes, few roads or schools, and whose principal function is giving away oil royalties.

  36. 40

    Puddybud spews:

    You know maybe the Palin’s birth control failed morons. Not every woman can take the pill or accept a IUD, etc. Maybe Todd didn’t want to meet Dr Stop. Maybe they are keeping how she got pregnant quiet cuz it’s ain’t your bidness.

    I love how you compassionate progressives are today. Moonbat!s.

  37. 41

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @24 If that ditz becomes vice president or president you’ll be real proud of yourself while America collapses around you, won’t you? Fucking asswipe traitor.

  38. 43

    Puddybud spews:

    Maybe they knew their son would be going to Iraq and just in case Todd wanted the family name to survive they decided to chance it and have another child hoping it was a son.

    You all are truly morons.

  39. 44

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    So here we have a candidate who owes her most ferbents fans’ admiration to her willingness to do things that violate the Constitution. Fucking traitors, the whole lot of ‘em.

  40. 45

    Puddybud spews:

    Why don’t you all question who “spawned” bybygoober with all his worthless garbage on this site?

    Why wasn’t he aborted? You know donkoinfanticide!

  41. 47

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Mrs. Rabbit asked me if it’s morally wrong to use voodoo against Karl Rove. I told her no, because voodoo doesn’t work. She insisted she’s killed a couple people with it. So I told her, okay go ahead and try it and see what happens.*

    * Just kidding! Voodoo is bunk. Besides, it has to rain for it to work, and it isn’t raining.

  42. 48

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @47 So now you’re in favor of abortion and infanticide? Typical Republican hypocrite.

  43. 49

    demo kid spews:

    @32: Don’t look now, but I predict Demokid is about to be a hypocrite in 3….2….1

    Is it being a hypocrite to state that you’re a fucking moron for relying on ad hominem attacks to make your point? Shows the moral bankruptcy of your point.

    @40: Misogynist double standard.

    You are great progressive Charlie Brown.

    Why? I haven’t seen any example of a double standard here in what I’ve said. I think that Goldy goes too far up here… but if someone’s going to present an image about themselves that’s false for a political advantage, why shouldn’t people start to explore that? What if it is a lie, and the media doesn’t discover that?

    And I think that it’s fascinating for Republicans that were so quick to insult and demean Clinton to leap to the defense of women. Again, hypocrisy.

  44. 50

    Puddybud spews:

    Demokid@51: I assume you don’t have children. Otherwise you’d understand how difficult it is to get a 16, 17, or 18 yr old to listen to you.

    The Daily Kurse started this with Trig being Bristol’s child. Did you fergit dis? Then he’s lame as he took it down when the heat got too much.

    But I know you are the most excellent parent and they toe your line.

    When Britney Spears little sister got pregnant the hue and cry was over the age of the boy remember?

  45. 51

    Rudy in Ballard spews:

    Carla has an inflated value of her role as mommy – I bet her kids are harassed to death by her over control, very American middle class feminist.

    Palin reminds me of my own family – lots of interaction with adults as valued little beings .. make a lot of your own decisions, respect for your opinions and contribution to the family. No perfection expected. Fun, tons of books, open easy talk about sex – if needed defend you kids like a tiger – I knew if I was ever in a bind my mom would get in the game 100 per cent on my side.

    Smart, well rounded adults, happy and full of love for mon and dad and everybody else.

    Carla, go have a drink and get over yourself.

  46. 52

    spews:

    Christine Gregoire and her husband, Mike, both worked full time while raising their daughters. He was a health care investigator for the State. She is a devout Catholic and believes in family values.

    WHAT KIND OF MOTHER WAS SHE? SHE SHOULD HAVE QUIT HER JOB AND STAYED AT HOME TO RAISE HER KIDS!

  47. 53

    Andrew spews:

    Goldy – you sound like a voyeur. And all the panic bullshit about the Palin family is utter bullshit.

    They have brains, love their kids, money and moxie. Fear your won family problems. The Palin family will be fine.

    All the silly shit almost makes wan to disavow the progressive bloggers. What happened to your politics? Reproductive freedom, real freedom for women? Obama has a real race now, and you are all coming unglued. Shit, man, get a grip.

    And get out of this family’s business. It is not playing and you look foolish.

    By the way, JFK solved some of the problem when his little kids played in his oval office- day care in the executive suite -sure. —huh, how silly all this fear sounds.

    Obama is being out smarted, he better get it together. IN five days the R’s changed almost every element of this race, while it seemed the Dems just stuttered a lot as they watched every thing change and wondered what the hell is going on.

    Too bad.

    At this rate, Sara Palin will be the first woman president. Smoke on that.

  48. 54

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    Christine Gregoire and her husband, Mike, both worked full time while raising their daughters. He was a health care investigator for the State. She is a devout Catholic and believes in family values.

    WHAT KIND OF MOTHER WAS SHE? SHE SHOULD HAVE QUIT HER JOB AND STAYED AT HOME TO RAISE HER KIDS!

    We could only wish, we would have better roads and lower taxes if that happened.

  49. 55

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    I love seeing all these donks squirm like the maggots they are. We finally have things on the right track. Squirm baby squirm. God bless the USA.

  50. 56

    demo kid spews:

    @54: Demokid@51: I assume you don’t have children. Otherwise you’d understand how difficult it is to get a 16, 17, or 18 yr old to listen to you

    Way to miss the point completely! My kids are no concern of yours… and you’re a damn fool if you think that this is relevant.

    The point is that if Palin is presenting her family values pretty much as the main item on her resume (which is all that her supporters really give a crap about), that needs to be seriously evaluated.

    Do I think that every possible tawdry detail needs to be uncovered? No. But do I think that she should get a free pass because you think that she’s hot? No.

    @55: And get out of this family’s business. It is not playing and you look foolish.

    Conservatives played with quotes from Michelle Obama for months. You’re the fool to think that your candidate shouldn’t be subject to the same pressure.

    At this rate, Sara Palin will be the first woman president. Smoke on that.

    Our country would be decimated by a Palin presidency. Smoke on that. I don’t want a repeat of the current administration, that couldn’t seem to tell its ass from its elbow… and that’s pretty much what a Palin presidency would be like. The dollar would collapse so fast it would make your head spin, and we’d be even more rudderless than we are now.

    Heck, perhaps Palin’s traitorous husband would get his wish and the US would start to break apart!

    @56: WHAT KIND OF MOTHER WAS SHE? SHE SHOULD HAVE QUIT HER JOB AND STAYED AT HOME TO RAISE HER KIDS!

    If she were loudly trumpeting her qualifications as a mom at the top of her resume, then hell yes Gregoire should have been subject to the same scrutiny. Did she run on that part of her resume? Hardly.

  51. 57

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    PALIN: Just last night Senator Obama finally broke and brought himself to admit what all the rest of us have known for quite some time, and that’s: thanks to the skill and valor of our troops, the surge in Iraq has succeeded. Senator Obama said that the surge, quote, “succeeded beyond our wildest dreams. I think,” said Senator Obama, “that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated.” I guess when you turn out to be profoundly wrong on a vital national security issue, maybe it’s comforting to pretend that everyone else was wrong, too.

    Nuff said.

  52. 58

    proud leftist spews:

    I received a wise email today. As a Christian, it appealed to me immediately. I wish I could give credit to the source. “Jesus Christ was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor.” That would be the truth, despite the remarkable spin that we have been seeing coming from St. Paul this week.

  53. 60

    Andrew spews:

    demo boy – I am an Obama supporter. To the max. People alike you are helping his campaign run to shit.

    and sexist crap from silly vagina watchers on the left is not helping

    GET TO THE ISSUES AND OFF BASHING PALIN

    And by the way, George Bush is not on the ballot – old strategy, used up , throw it away

    Mc Cain/Palin is a formidible ticket – Game is on folks

    Get smart and get to work. Obama supporters must now help correct the Hillary not for VP mistake, if it can be corrected.

  54. 61

    YLB spews:

    You know maybe the Palin’s birth control failed morons. Not every woman can take the pill or accept a IUD, etc.

    This coming from Mr. holier than thou who forbade his kids to have sex.

    Where was the mother Stupes?

    Where was the father?

    What happened to “a house divided cannot stand”?

  55. 62

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @54 If Gregoire should stay home with her kids, so should Palin and Cathy McMorris.

    Republicans = double standard hypocrites

  56. 63

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @62 “GET TO THE ISSUES AND OFF BASHING PALIN”

    Well I think the Democrats did that in their convention. It’s the Repubs who don’t want to talk about issues. That’s not our fault.

  57. 64

    K spews:

    Palin’s executive experience is a joke. I know a number of department heads who manage more people and larger budgets. Of course they do not have the luxury of oil money to distribute.

    And foreign policy, close to Russia, please tell me none of you really believe that.

    ANd that leaves her family values, but lets not talk about that.

  58. 65

    K spews:

    Or how about this for Ms. Sarah:
    – “John McCain touts Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as a force in the his battle against earmarks and entrenched power brokers, but under her leadership the state this year asked for almost $300 per person in requests for pet projects from one of McCain’s top adversaries: indicted Sen. Ted Stevens.

    That’s more than any other state received, per person, from Congress for the current budget year, and runs counter to the reformer image that Palin and the McCain campaign are pushing.”

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....n_earmarks

  59. 66

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    @54 If Gregoire should stay home with her kids, so should Palin and Cathy McMorris.

    Republicans = double standard hypocrites

    No double standard here. We are dealing with coronation of queen Chrissy in power just like we will deal with the election of Palin in power. The only question will be can you deal with it. hehehehehehehe

  60. 67

    spews:

    I would like anyone who actually thinks that Goldy would agree with this if it were a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT woman on the ticket to raise their hand.

    And Goldy, if you are not raising your hand, then you are AGAIN lying. You know you would be the first person to cry sexism if the parties were switched.

    Goldy = liar.

  61. 68

    PU spews:

    HEY GOLDY HAS DSHS EVER BEEN TO THE GOVERNORS HOUSE LIKE WHEN THEY CAME CALLIN TO YOURS.JUST ASKIN

  62. 69

    PU spews:

    GOLDY YHAT YOU STAYED HOME FOR 3 YEARS MEANS ONLY THAT YOU WERE TO FUCKIN LAZY TO GET A JOB.NO WONDER YOUR WIFE THRU YOUR LAZY ASS OUT.I HOPE SHE SUCKS YOU DRY.

  63. 70

    PU spews:

    TROLL @30 LOOK AT BIDENS KIDS.HIS DAUGHTER HAS BEEN ARRESTED TWICE THE LAST TIME ON DOPE CHARGES AND THE YOUNG SON HUNTER IS AWAITING TRAIL ALONG WITH BIDENS BROTHER.MAYBE JOE SHOULD OF STAYED HOME.

  64. 72

    Crusader spews:

    It’s pretty clear to me that Palin has caused liberals to go totally insane. Bat shit crazy.

    Mission accomplished.

  65. 73

    Crusader spews:

    62. Andrew:

    Your insane friends can’t help themselves with their OTT rhetoric. They’re so filled with hate and bile that it’s pouring out of them. Campaign discipline is a concept they couldn’t care less about right now. It’s just about emotion for them.

  66. 74

    Andrew spews:

    demo kid – get smart
    I have never voted for a Republican and I have done campaign work for 20 years
    need to respect your elders

    John Mc Cain’s speech had a LARGER audience than the good talking Obmama – astonishing – he, Johnny is supposed to soon be dead

    Obama has lost the touch and strategies to victory – all Dems need to push his folks to get back on the ball

    And the media is so so supid – for the first time tonight I heard a talking head point out how ell Palin will do in Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah New Mexico, Arizona and maybe the mid west — duh, she is the Frontier woman, just like the Pioneer and Women of the West.

    And you think Joe Biden has got any curb appeal in the west and mountain west, dream on.

  67. 75

    David spews:

    Answer me one question. Why is one of her qualifications “Hot”? We’re talking about her being ready to step into the Presidency of the United States, not debating her qualifications for a job at Hooters.

    Frontier women wouldn’t be so chicken to talk to reporters.

  68. 76

    Crusader spews:

    Sarah Palin is so hawt! She sends millions of GOP hearts a flutterin’. She is our messiah!

  69. 77

    SolvayGirl spews:

    At 38: [i]If women have a choice in how to live their lives, then women have a choice.[/i]

    You’re right. Women have a choice NOW. We may not if Republicans have their way.

    But more importantly, to me, how Palin reacted to this family crisis gives me some insight into how she might react in a national crisis. Does she always put herself first? Because we know so little about her, and have only two months to catch up, I want to know as much about her as I can. She knew that this job would open her personal life up to scrutiny…something about heat and kitchen comes to mind here.

    Once I add in the fact that she has opposed medically accurate sex education (and pretty much where she stands on ALL the other issues), it just confirms my opinion that she won’t represent me or MY values. That’s why I think this is all relevant.

    I don’t agree with her policies, and I have little respect for her as a parent. Palin may be able to afford all the childcare in the world, but she still sacrificed her daughter’s privacy and possibly her future to further her own ambitions. Again, I could not do that to my child…and that’s the only real benchmark I have. She is not someone I would like to have coffee with–Laura Bush, on the other hand, is. Ditto for Hillary.

    Know this: there are good parents and bad parents from all sides of the electorate and income levels. There are working parents who can juggle without ever dropping a ball and there are stay-at-homes who spend the day watching Jerry Springer while the baby languishes in a playpen–and EVERYTHING in between.

    Stop making this so black and white. The issue here has more to do with the Republican policies on “family values” on everything from medical insurance covering Viagra and not birth control to funding medically accurate sex education and family planning services. We can then add in childcare, education and environmental issues, etc. under this big umbrella.

    And to the people who keep quoting the Bible…STOP NOW! There are tons of people living in this country who do not adhere to Juedo-Christian theology, and we don’t have to–our constitution says so and I’d like to keep it that way.

  70. 78

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    4. Goldy spews:
    If it had been the Obamas with a pregnant teenage daughter, imagine the shit storm that would have instantly disqualified him from the White House. Had it been an unmarried, 30-year-old Chelsea Clinton who announced she was pregnant, she would have been ridiculed and abused from pulpits and TV studios nationwide

      
    True, Obamas/Cintons would have drawn the ire and abuse from the right.
      
    Just like Sarah got trashed from the left. abc, cbs, nbc, cnn, msnbc
      
    Can you say liberal biased media, I knew you could.

  71. 79

    SolvayGirl spews:

    [i]At 80: Liberal biased media my a#@…[/i]

    If those networks were truly as liberal and biased as the Right accuses, we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in today. Try to remember, those companies (and FOX, etc.) are all parts of enormous multi-media corporations. They all have their own interests and those of their stockholders at heart which don’t always coincide with those of the average American–unless it’s trying to sell us more cheap junk from China or bad-for-our-health fast food that we don’t need.

  72. 80

    spews:

    SolvayGirl @ 79:

    You’re right. Women have a choice NOW. We may not if Republicans have their way.

    If you mean a choice to kill the unique human life in the womb, yes, they may lose that legal choice, just as people once lost their legal choice to own slaves.

    And whenever the Democrats are in control, EVERYONE loses choices. The Bill of Rights goes into the toilet. Obama even said his most admired judges are those that, by their own admission, ignore the Constitution, like Stephen Breyer.

    But more importantly, to me, how Palin reacted to this family crisis gives me some insight into how she might react in a national crisis.

    Exactly. She handled it extremely well.

    Does she always put herself first? … She knew that this job would open her personal life up to scrutiny…something about heat and kitchen comes to mind here.

    Do you always make things up that never happened? I defy you to show a single example of anything she said or did that shows she “can’t take the heat.”

    Once I add in the fact that she has opposed medically accurate sex education

    That is another lie. She never did any such thing. Opposing FUNDING for EXPLICIT sex ed is not the same as opposing “medically accurate” sex ed in general.

    I love how liberals on the one hand oppose abortion laws by saying “get the government out of our bedrooms!” But then when it comes to explicit sexual education, their tune changes, and they WELCOME the government into their CHILDREN’S bedrooms.

    It’s pretty damned sick. I cannot fathom being so brainwashed by Big Brother that I would think the government saying sexually explicit and intimate things to my child would be a good idea.

    My children will be more well-educated about medically accurate sex education than 99 percent of kids out there, including those taught in liberal jurisdictions like Seattle. But they will be taught by their family, not the government, because I actually do believe the government shouldn’t be in our bedrooms, whereas liberals clearly don’t.

    I don’t agree with her policies, and I have little respect for her as a parent.

    And if ANYONE questioned a LIBERAL politician’s parenting skills, you’d be the first to cry sexism, so who cares what you pretend to not respect?

    Palin may be able to afford all the childcare in the world, but she still sacrificed her daughter’s privacy and possibly her future to further her own ambitions.

    You’re a self-hating sexist woman, and a liar.

    The issue here has more to do with the Republican policies on “family values” on everything from medical insurance covering Viagra and not birth control

    Another lie. That simply does not exist. There isn’t a single Republican policy that says we should have insurance cover Viagra and not birth control. That is the decision made by some private insurers, NOT the government.

    What IS true is that fascist liberals are trying to force private insurers to conform to THEIR view of what should and should not be covered. I do agree that contraception for women should be covered by health insurance, but I do not agree that the government has any damned place in forcing the insurers to do it.

    If yours doesn’t cover it, then get a new insurer, or complain to your HR department about it.

    We can then add in childcare, education and environmental issues, etc. under this big umbrella.

    Yes, we could: we could talk about how the Democrats want to violate the Constitution to try to create a society that suits them, as with the contraception coverage issue.

    And to the people who keep quoting the Bible…STOP NOW! There are tons of people living in this country who do not adhere to Juedo-Christian theology, and we don’t have to–our constitution says so and I’d like to keep it that way.

    Yeah, sorry, I don’t see anything in the Constitution that says people can’t quote from the Bible.

    Yet another liberal trying to infringe on our Constitutional rights.

    The best part about this Palin debate is that it shows that the liberal Democrats, in fact, hate most of the American people. Sarah Palin is just like the bulk of America, and yet the left is incensed and repeatedly saying how much they HATE her, which only shows that they hate most of the American people.

    That’s a great way to win national elections!

  73. 82

    SolvayGirl spews:

    83: No…just that they can’t complain when the media puts their families under a microscope (this holds true for men as well).

    82: I just don’t want people using the Bible (or any other religious writings) as a basis for law–especially when it comes to women. Remember…the Bible was written by men from ancient times and edited by Guttenberg.

    to all the others…reality is what we perceive it to be and this country has two very different realities. I doubt they will ever come together or find common ground. I’m done now.

  74. 83

    K spews:

    Pudge-
    “And whenever the Democrats are in control, EVERYONE loses choices. The Bill of Rights goes into the toilet.”

    You’re joking aren’t you? After this administrations assault on due process, wiretaps and freedom of the press, come on now.

  75. 84

    doggril spews:

    The Republicans, who we all know have PRETENDED to be the defenders of “family values” in this country, have a proven record of not giving a shit about OTHER people’s families. After having watched the Bushes’ loser kids for eight long years, and now seeing the Republican VP candidate throw her own kids under the bus for the sake of her ambitions, it’s become pretty clear that they actually don’t care that much for their own, either.

  76. 85

    doggril spews:

    @82 Shorter Pudge: “liar, liar, pants on fire!”
    Subtract the name-calling, the what-ifs, and the misrepresentations, and, well, there’s nothing left to discuss.
    On the other hand, if I were a conservative after these 8 years of failure (economy: bad; war: failure; foreign relations: a joke; domestic policies: Katrina), I might want to change the subject too.

  77. 86

    Charlie Kee spews:

    @ 82. pudge

    You got it right!

    You’re right. Women have a choice NOW. We may not if Republicans have their way.

    If you mean a choice to kill the unique human life in the womb, yes, they may lose that legal choice, just as people once lost their legal choice to own slaves

    .

    Just wait till the Right to Lifers ask the Catholic Biden about what the Pope says?

    But more importantly, to me, how Palin reacted to this family crisis gives me some insight into how she might react in a national crisis.

    Exactly. She handled it extremely well.

    Again, she is the Gipper in skirts!

    That is another lie. She never did any such thing. Opposing FUNDING for EXPLICIT sex ed is not the same as opposing “medically accurate” sex ed in general.

    Right on. If kids can’t learn this at home, where does the Constitution put the state in their place.

    The issue here has more to do with the Republican policies on “family values” on everything from medical insurance covering Viagra and not birth control

    Another lie. That simply does not exist. There isn’t a single Republican policy that says we should have insurance cover Viagra and not birth control. That is the decision made by some private insurers, NOT the government.

    Yes! And, if we had MCain care the Viagra woudol be an add on because we wold all be looking to sabe bucks! Hell if Viagra is a health need so is Hershey bars!

    as pudge says …

    If yours doesn’t cover it, then get a new insurer, or complain to your HR department about it.

    We can then add in childcare, education and environmental issues, etc. under this big umbrella.

    And to the people who keep quoting the Bible…STOP NOW! There are tons of people living in this country who do not adhere to Juedo-Christian theology, and we don’t have to–our constitution says so and I’d like to keep it that way.

    BUT it is OK to quote Marx, the Hindues, the Quran? What the eff .. looks like affirmative action!

    Anybody here tell me how kids who have not read their bibles can take an art appreciation course?

    As for immigrants, we have had immigrants form the beginning. They come here to live in the society Christians built!

  78. 87

    Don Joe spews:

    Pudge @ 82

    Yeah, I know, you’re ignoring me, because I proved you to be a liar. I wont let your childish behavior stand in the way of at least trying to carry on an intelligent conversation.

    And whenever the Democrats are in control, EVERYONE loses choices.

    Quite a few people are beginning to see the problems with your kind of jingoistic posturing. When we let bankers choose to side-step the risks of the loans they underwrite by selling those loans to the purveyors of derivative securities, then we get a housing bubble that, like all bubbles, eventually bursts.

    I defy you to show a single example of anything she said or did that shows she “can’t take the heat.”

    Hm. I guess pointing out that she’s not facing the press in any unscripted setting isn’t an example of anything that she’s actually doing, so I guess that doesn’t qualify under your rather arbitrary evidentiary requirements.

    Seems to me you’ve had this problem grasping the distinction between omission and commission before.

    Opposing FUNDING for EXPLICIT sex ed is not the same as opposing “medically accurate” sex ed in general.

    Well, the words aren’t the same, but we have a couple of reasons to believe that they mean the same thing. First, there is no sex education curriculum that includes screenings of Debbie Does Dallas, so that can’t be what “explicit” means. Second, Republicans have already run the rejected creationist science curriculum through the “s/creationism/intelligent design/” transform. There’s reason to believe that they’ve done the same thing with “medically accurate” and “explicit”.

    And if ANYONE questioned a LIBERAL politician’s parenting skills, you’d be the first to cry sexism, so who cares what you pretend to not respect?

    Well, as a matter of fact, Bill O’Reilly questioned someone’s parenting, and most of us simply pointed out that O’Reilly is an idiot. I suppose you can elide the point by suggesting that the politics of Jamie Lynn Spears’ parents might have had something to do with that, but most of us really do believe that O’Reilly is an idiot.

    There isn’t a single Republican policy that says we should have insurance cover Viagra and not birth control.

    Strictly speaking, what Solvay said isn’t a lie. It’s hyperbole, and, by singling out that hyperbole and treating it as if it were indeed a lie, you’re side-stepping the actual policy debate. I have to grant that you guys on the right are rather adept at using cheap rhetorical tricks to avoid engaging in the actual policy debate.

    Yes, we could: we could talk about how the Democrats want to violate the Constitution to try to create a society that suits them, as with the contraception coverage issue.

    Ah, yes. The other lame rhetorical technique you guys regurgitate when you can’t win the policy debates: invoke some narrow interpretation of the Constitution as it your interpretation is the only reasonable way to understand what it means.

    News flash, Pudge. Hamilton and Madison already had this debate. With the advent of the New Deal, Hamilton won. That game’s over.

    And you know what? I’m quite happy to let you continue avoiding the actual policy debates. Ignore the fact that the one government run healthcare system in the US, the VA, gets a far better bang for its buck than the rest of us do. Ignore the fact that 8 years worth of Republican policies have led us to where we are. Keep trying to convince people that they really aren’t as bad off as they think they are. Let’s see how well that works out for you come November.

    Yeah, sorry, I don’t see anything in the Constitution that says people can’t quote from the Bible.

    But, the Constitution does prevent you from turning the United States into a Christian theocracy, which is what happens when the only rhetorical support you can muster for your policy positions consists of quotes from the Bible.

    Which begs the question: If Republicans are capable of justifying their policy positions without quoting the Bible, why do they find the need to quote it so often?

  79. 88

    spews:

    SolvayGirl: I just don’t want people using the Bible (or any other religious writings) as a basis for law–especially when it comes to women.

    I don’t want people using socialist philosophy as a basis for law.

    Remember…the Bible was written by men from ancient times and edited by Guttenberg.

    No. You are talking to someone who can actually read and translate the text of Greek manuscripts that predate Gutenberg by over one thousand years, so I recognize that for the obviously incorrect claim that it is.

    We have complete copies of the New Testament that date back to the fourth century — Codices Sinaiticus and Vaticanus — which serve at the foundation for all reputable modern translations of the Bible. Gutenberg doesn’t even enter the picture.

    And you apparently also don’t know that the Gutenberg Bible is a copy of the Vulgate, which is a Latin translation of the Greek and Hebrew texts, and the King James Bible — by far the most influential English translation of the Bible — that came later was translated from the Greek, not the Latin. So even to the extent that the KJV has influenced modern translations, it’s got nothing to do with Gutenberg.

    So, wanna try that one again?

    K: You’re joking aren’t you?

    No.

    After this administrations assault on due process, wiretaps and freedom of the press, come on now.

    Granting that for the sake of argument, how does whatever Bush has done in ANY WAY mitigate or justify ignoring, for example, the Second and Tenth Amendments? You are just giving me the tu quoque logical fallacy: “well, you guys do it too!” Not very convincing.

    doggril: Subtract the name-calling, the what-ifs, and the misrepresentations, and, well, there’s nothing left to discuss.

    Yes, that is what SolvayGirl’s post amounted to. (I know you meant me, but you cannot point to where I did any of that, which is why you don’t bother. Since you can’t do it, you resort to mere ad hominem logical fallacies; did you and K get together and split up which fallacies you would resort to?)

  80. 89

    Don Joe spews:

    Pudge @ 90

    You can pull down the shade in order to avoid the sunlight I’m shining on the intellectual bankruptcy of your ideas, but doing so isn’t going to hide that light from anyone else’s eyes.

    I don’t want people using socialist philosophy as a basis for law.

    Is there anything more socialist than our Republican-run Federal government taking over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?

    While there is an explicit provision in our Constitution that prohibits our government from establishing any form of religion, there is no explicit provision in our Constitution that would prohibit the amorphous and jingoistic definition of “socialism” that you toss around like a frisbee.

    So, like it or not, you’re going to have to engage in the policy debates.