We’re 16th, but we try harder

Oh man… I’m moving:

Shocking news: granola-munching, monorail-worshiping, gay-rights-preaching, church-shunning, flannel-wearing, book-devouring, vegan-dining, obsessively recycling, salmon-protecting, pinot noir-sniffing, latte-sipping, war-protesting, bluer-than-blue-voting Seattle is not America’s brightest beacon of liberalism.

Not even close. Not even in the top 10. Not even the top 15.

As reported by Neil Modie in the Seattle P-I, Seattle ranks as only the 16th most liberal city according to a study by the Bay Area Center for Voting Research.

Personally, I’m not surprised. As a transplant, I’ve always found Seattle politics rather schizo, and never understood the common perception that it was especially liberal compared to other cities. But you know, the righties have their spin, and far be it from me to contradict it.

Comments

  1. 1

    christmasghost spews:

    heh heh heh…just re-read your post again goldy. you make the point for me that seattle is full of hypocritical elitist loons.
    schizo….doesn’t even begin to cover it.

  2. 2

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    christmasghost–
    My sentiments exactly.
    Goldy cannot come to grips with the fact that the issue is not LIBERALISM. If Seattle were truly just LIBERAL, they would be in much better shape.
    The fact is Seattle has become the LEFTIST PINHEAD brothel aka THE ANAL CANAL OF THE UNIVERSE!!!
    Seattle’s self-proclaimed “Progressives” are in reality schizo elistist lunatics who don’t know what they want. They claim to be for “smart growth”…yet some of the avid “Smart growth” leaders own real estate in rural areas or hog multiple building sites for their “gardens” in areas the claim to want high density. The fact is these LEFTIST PINHEADS want “smart growth” imposed on everyone EXCEPT THEM!

    LIBERALISM in it’s purest sense is not a bad thing. Marxism and LEFTIST dogma is horrible.
    Goldy and his ilk have given Liberals a bad name.

  3. 3

    JCH spews:

    [OK, Libs, Let’s Discuss Crime Rates!!! There seems to be a corolation!!!! hehe!!] Akmerica’s 25 Most Liberal Cities
    (in descending order)
    Rank City State
    1 Detroit Michigan
    2 Gary Indiana
    3 Berkeley California
    4 Washington, D.C. Dist. of Columbia
    5 Oakland California
    6 Inglewood California
    7 Newark New Jersey
    8 Cambridge Massachusetts
    9 San Francisco California
    10 Flint Michigan
    11 Cleveland Ohio
    12 Hartford Connecticut
    13 Paterson New Jersey
    14 Baltimore Maryland
    15 New Haven Connecticut
    16 Seattle Washington
    17 Chicago Illinois
    18 Philadelphia Pennsylvania
    19 Birmingham Alabama
    20 St. Louis Missouri
    21 New York New York
    22 Providence Rhode Island
    23 Minneapolis Minnesota
    24 Boston Massachusetts
    25 Buffalo New York

    America’s 25 Most Conservative Cities
    (in descending order)
    Rank City State
    1 Provo Utah
    2 Lubbock Texas
    3 Abilene Texas
    4 Hialeah Florida
    5 Plano Texas
    6 Colorado Springs Colorado
    7 Gilbert Arizona
    8 Bakersfield California
    9 Lafayette Louisiana
    10 Orange California
    11 Escondido California
    12 Allentown Pennsylvania
    13 Mesa Arizona
    14 Arlington Texas
    15 Peoria Arizona
    16 Cape Coral Florida
    17 Garden Grove California
    18 Simi Valley California
    19 Corona California
    20 Clearwater Florida
    21 West Valley City Utah
    22 Oklahoma City Oklahoma
    23 Overland Park Kansas
    24 Anchorage Alaska
    25 Huntington Beach California

  4. 4

    Heath spews:

    Hahahahah. You are so insipid.

    Why don’t you tell us what kind of liberal beliefs you support, Cynical? You jack-ass.

  5. 5

    righton spews:

    Yawn; its pretty much a recap of black vs white, not a very sophisticated look at the politics

  6. 8

    Richard Pope spews:

    Here is the link to the full study:

    http://votingresearch.org/USAstudy.doc

    Validity of the study is hard to gauge. Jackson, Mississippi is listed TWICE — 46th most liberal and 47th most liberal (192nd and 191st on conservative list).

    Bellevue, Seattle and Tacoma each show 0.00% liberal and 0.00% conservative votes (see Appendix 1 on pages 31 to 36 of the study).

  7. 10

    Jon spews:

    Richard Pope: Excellent point. I think the study is flawed, becuase while places like Detroit and Gary, Indiana may rate high on this list because of their voting, you have to think that on social & religious issues they would be actually more conservative than Seattle (I don’t know this for sure, it is, admittedly, a guess).

    Christmasghost picks up on a good point however by pointing out the hypocritical views around Seattle (just see how many votes I-912 does actually get in Seattle, for example).

  8. 11

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    ALASKA WAY VIADUCT SHUTS DOWN; TRAFFIC NIGHTMARE ENSUES

    A truck is stuck in the Battery Street tunnel. Its cargo is a large generator which is wedged against the roof of the tunnel. Doesn’t look like it will be cleared anytime soon. Police are diverting northbound traffic onto surface streets via the Western Avenue exit, but the backup now extends through the entire downtown area, and may take hours to clear. Motorists are advised to use I-5, which is experiencing heavy traffic flows.

    Welcome to the brave new world of Initiative 912.

  9. 12

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Seattle can make do without AVW, right? Right? It can, can’t it? Well?

    Why don’t you ask the people sitting and stewing on Hwy. 99 as I type …

  10. 14

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Roger Rabbit–
    So happy to hear about Seattle’s Traffic Nightmare…living out in the wide open country where 3 cars===Traffic Jam.
    Thank you for posting this…I’m sure more folks in Rural Areas will be encouraged to Vote YES on I-912!!!

    heath@3–
    Thank you for asking about my Liberal beliefs…
    1) I believe in LIBERALLY construing Land Use regulations to the benefit of the landowner.
    2) I believe in a LIBERAL interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.
    3) I believe in a LIBERAL application of the term LEFTIST PINHEAD.

  11. 15

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    You’re welcome, Cynical. I’m looking forward to you rural folks paying $6 a gallon for gas to commute 75 miles a day.

  12. 16

    Righton spews:

    Why do i get taxed cuz a dummie drives his truck into the tunnel?

    You libs think socialism is the cure to all the ails us

  13. 17

    christmasghost spews:

    roger…oh, don’t get me started on the sad fact that NO ONE and i mean no one can actually drive in washington state.
    god…it’s like the breeding ground for the crash test dummies.

  14. 18

    Gary spews:

    True! Seattle is not that liberal. If elections were counted honestly Seattle would be middle of the road. The problem is that the liberals count the votes and throw all elections to the left with thier fraud and corruption.

  15. 19

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Gas Prices: An Example of Free Market Failure

    It’s obvious why oil prices are going through the roof. Three years ago, the world had about 4.5 million bpd of excess production capacity. Most of that is now in production, so there’s no way to pump more oil to meet rising demand.

    To date, consumers have responded to higher prices simply by digging deeper into their pockets. Consequently, prices will continue going up until consumers reduce their use of oil. If it takes $6 a gallon gas to get people to cut back, then that’s how high it will go. If people don’t curb their driving until gas reaches $10 a gallon, that’s what we’ll pay.

    A few years ago, when gas plummeted to $1 a gallon, consumers rushed to buy gas guzzling pickups and SUVs. This is one of modern history’s great examples of humanity’s collective stupidity, because lower gas prices DO NOT PUT MORE OIL IN THE GROUND!!! What they were doing was burning tomorrow’s gas, and when tomorrow arrived, guess what no gas.

    More than half of the world’s oil supply comes from a handful of supergiant oilfields. For technical reasons, production from these fields can’t be increased by drilling more wells. That simply reduces the flow from existing wells. Every oilfield has an optimum production level, which tends to decline along a bell-shaped curve as the field is gradually depleted. Most of the world’s supergiant fields have been in production for over 50 years and are now on the downhill slope of the productive curve, so the only way to increase supply is to develop new fields.

    However, the big fields are the first to be discovered and developed, and there’s probably no supergiants left to be found. The last one was discovered in the 1970s. What the oil industry has to do now is make up for declining production from older fields and develop new production to meet rising demand by exploiting smaller oilfields. Ultimately, these fields will not be able to make up the loss of production from the supergiants as the latter go out of production.

    Free market economics can’t put more oil in the ground or create new oilfields. The most it can do is give oil companies the funds to exploit more expensive new supplies by putting more money in their hands through higher prices. But it takes 10 years or more to bring new supplies on line.

    The free market also gives oil companies no incentives to build more refineries. Why should they invest billions in plants to process a declining resource? At current consumption rates, the world’s known oil reserves will be completely used up in less than 30 years, and when that happens, oil refineries will become worthless. Furthermore, why would oil execs make huge investments in increasing supplies of refined product just to push down prices for consumers? That makes no sense!

    Enjoy the $3 gas while it lasts, my friends. Within a few years you’ll look back on $3 with nostalgia. We’re living the “good old days” right now. Soon, $3 gas will be a distant memory. Go out and fill up right now, because you’ll never see $3 gas again!

  16. 20

    For the Clueless spews:

    Over two million dollars of Republican money couldn’t prove anything crooked happened in the last election. However wingnut Gary knows best.

    And look here, the R’s are still in debt. The party leadership will pay off the debt of course with a contribution cut to the party faithful. A letter will go out to Joe Republican saying, if you gave twenty dollars last year please give eighteen this year! Broadening the contribution base!

    Where’s the BIAW when you need them!

  17. 21

    christmasghost spews:

    roger …for a little fluffy bunny you sure do like to try and scare the kiddies don’t you? i can’t remember what the name of the island off the coast of africa is right now [liberia is always trying to control it..if that helps] but they are sitting on more light sweet crude than four saudi arabias right now.and they are very pro american. they wanted us to put a military base there….why we haven’t is beyond me.
    we ,as a country, need to follow seattle’s lead in one thing[only] become big moochers who choose our friends for what they have [and we can use]. heh heh heh.

  18. 22

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    18

    Whatever, Xmas Goose. Or you could go read one of the right-wing web sites that claims oil will last forever because oilfields are being refilled from giant caverns filled with limitless oceans of oil buried deep in the earth’s mantle. (Never mind that oil can’t physically exist deeper than 17,000 feet because the heat and pressure below that depth destroys the oil molecules.) I prefer to deal with reality.

    There is no goddam island off the coast of Africa with four times as much oil as Saudi Arabia.

  19. 23

    Jon spews:

    Roger @ 10: Hey, don’t get me wrong, I’m voting against 912 because I haven’t seen, heard, nor read about any decent alternatives. I don’t like higher taxes, but roads cost big money, whether or not you’re using audits, prevailing wage, etc.

  20. 24

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    TUNNEL CLEARED; ALASKA WAY VIADUCT REOPENS

    Thank God it was only a stuck truck that took a couple of hours to clear, and not a structural problem necessitating a lengthy or permanent shutdown.

  21. 25

    Jon spews:

    Roger @ 17: I’m a little surprised at this comment, as it shows that oil prices are not controlled by secret hidden dials in the Oval Office.

  22. 26

    Mark spews:

    Roger @ 17

    The refining issue is a really big one. You’re right about them not investing because of the “declining resource” issue. The oil companies also want to be operating at or near peak efficiency — and you can’t blame them for that.

    But you also have to SIGNIFICANTLY factor in the issue of not building or upgrading refineries because of environmental regulation and the costs related to enviro and NIMBY protests / lawsuits.

  23. 27

    For the Clueless spews:

    Sao Tome e Principe.

    Wow 17 billion barrels estimated to come on-line in West Africa as a whole in the next 5 years.

    Enough to sate our gas guzzling ways for 2 and a half years maybe?

    Does anyone still wonder why Bush made his famous Africa tour?

  24. 28

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    RURAL COUNTIES TO BECOME DEPOPULATED

    OK, look at what we have in our rural counties. Small towns, low paying jobs, and long commuting distances if you live in Town A and your job is in Town B. How in hell will someone making $7.35 an hour commute 60 miles a day when gas hits $5 a gallon? They won’t. Either employers will have to raise wages, or their employees will quit, because nobody is going to pour half their after-tax income into the gas tank. The workforce that rural employers draw on will move to the cities where jobs are more plentiful, pay better, and mass transportation or shorter commuting is available. There will be a net migration out of the rural areas.

    Eastern Washington, which currently has 22% of the state’s population, will eventually fall to well under 20% as a result of soaring fuel prices. For a politican like Rossi, winning a rural county won’t be worth a hoot-n-holler, in fact it isn’t now. (Rossi won 31 of 39 counties but Gregoire still got more votes.)

    The problem will be even worse in America’s heartland. Thanks to our foresighted GOP congress, the national minimum wage is still stuck where it was years ago — at $5.15 an hour. How much gas can you buy on that income? Not enough to commute to a job, if you live in a rural area in Nebraska or South Dakota. Over half of America’s population already lives in coastal counties. High gas prices coupled with low wages will complete the job of driving people out of the country’s midsection, because they won’t be able to make a living there. The Great Plains will be depopulated, empty, a vast wasteland like they were before the settlers arrived.

    This isn’t necessarily bad for everyone. The fences will fall down. Buffalo will roam free again. The Indians will dance with joy. It’ll be like the old days, riding down the buffalo on their painted ponies, living off the empty land. The Indians have always known that if they waited long enough, they would get the land back someday. And they wouldn’t need to fight wars to get it. The collective stupidity of the palefaces will suffice.

  25. 29

    Mark spews:

    Roger @ 19, Xmas @ 18

    Are you talking about Sao Tome e Principe?

    There is/was a big deal about the drilling rights because the overall area is oil-rich, but I haven’t seen any solid numbers. And the US has talked about putting a naval base there.

  26. 30

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    23

    That’s bullshit, Mark! The Republicans have total control of the government. And you’re trying to tell me environmentalists are steamrolling the oil companies?

    The oil companies are rolling in cash. Demand for their product is at all time highs. And you’re trying to tell me the cost of pollution equipment is keeping them from building refineries?

    How do you explain oil industry efforts to tear down existing refineries? Huh? Why did Shell refuse to sell its Bakersfield refinery? Why did Shell lie to the public about Bakersfield losing money? (It is, in fact, the most profitable refinery Shell owns anywhere in the world.) I’ll tell you why Shell wants to tear down Bakersfield. Environmental requirements doesn’t have a goddam thing to do with it. Bakersfield already has all of the required permits. Shell wants to tear it down because less refinery capacity equals higher prices equals more profit, that’s why.

    Environmentalists and NIMBYs don’t have a fucking thing to do with refineries not being built.

  27. 32

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    24

    Yeah, that’s about right. The U.S. consumes about 7 billion barrels a year. That’s about a fourth of world consumption. So 17 billion bbls would satisfy U.S. demand for about 2 1/2 years or satisfy world demand for about 7 months.

  28. 33

    Mark spews:

    Roger @ 26: “The Republicans have total control of the government.”

    Not on a given local or state level they don’t.

  29. 35

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The U.S. has 5% of the world’s population and consumes 25% of the world’s oil. That ain’t gonna last, folks. The other 95% will want their fair share, sooner or later.

    Except for Brazil, who, because of their unique climate and geography, is able to grow 100% of their transport fuel supply. Of course, they don’t drive SUVs or commute 75 miles a day to work, either. Their energy use is much less profligate than ours. But they don’t pay a penny to OPEC. Not one cent.

  30. 36

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    30

    Do your own fucking research. My time is worth something. You know how to do an internet search, don’t you? I’m not your goddamn personal librarian.

  31. 37

    Richard Pope spews:

    Jon @ 9

    Those all also good points. Detroit, Gary and many other cities have substantial African-American population. The Bush administration is viewed as either outright racist or with strong suspicions of racism by a large portion of the black population. So the proportion of the black vote for Bush was extremely small.

    These numbers can be quite different, if the black community doesn’t have these concerns about a GOP candidate. The Dems still carry the black vote most of the time, but having 25% or 35% GOP vote can make all the difference in the world, especially in state and local elections.

    I would dare to say that Rossi’s percentage of the vote among black Seattle voters was probably higher than his percentage among white Seattle voters. Probably the same thing cannot be said about Bush, but these two numbers would be pretty close, given the liberalness of white Seattle voters. Rossi wasn’t perceived as a racist and had the endorsement of the Seattle Medium, while Gregoire had a few issues from her past.

    Also, cities with high black populations often have mostly very liberal white populations — Washington, DC, New Orleans, LA, Atlanta, GA, etc. In these cities, the black population tends to be quite a bit more socially conservative than the white population. For example, in September 2004, Louisiana approved a constitutional amendment against gay marriage. In New Orleans, the amendment passed by a decent margin in predominately black precincts, and failed by a small margin in predominately white precincts.

    It isn’t easy to define which cities are the most “liberal” and which are the most “conservative”. Especially since there are several scales on which “liberal” and “conservative” can be measured, and people who are quite “liberal” on one scale can be quite “conservative” on another scale.

  32. 38

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Reply to 27

    “Energy company executives told a House subcommittee on Thursday that Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming could become the next Saudi Arabia if they can find a way to extract the billions of barrels in oil shale, a porous rock containing petroleum.”

    This is old news — and a mighty big “if.” Western energy promoters were boosting oil shale back in the 1970s, at the time of the last big gas crunch. Here are the realities:

    1. Using existing technology, extracting kerogen (not oil) from shale requires massive amounts of water that simply isn’t available in the states where the shale is located.

    2. If the required quantities of water could be obtained somewhere else and transported to where the shale is processed, you would still have to figure out how to dispose of massive quantities of highly polluted water.

    3. The shale has to be strip mined, leaving gigantic holes in the landscape.

    4. And you have another big disposal problem, because after the kerogen is stripped out of the ore, the rock expands. Consequently, after filling the holes the ore came out of, there’s still a large volume of slag with no place to go except to dump it on the landscape.

    5. The end product of the oil shale extraction process is not oil but kerogen, an incomplete hydrocarbon that requires adding hydrogen by further processing before it can be used as fuel. And, of course, you need resources, plants, and fuels to produce the hydrogen.

    According to Wikipedia,

    “All forms of oil shale exploitation are very inefficient as the energy demands of blasting, transporting, crushing, heating the material, and then adding hydrogen, together with the safe disposal of huge quantities of waste material, are large. Current extraction methods produce four times as much greenhouse gas as does conventional oil production.”

  33. 39

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    P.S., there’s a reason why the Wyoming oil shale boosters want government money to produce shale “oil.” It’s because shale oil is not competitive cost-wise without massive government subsidies.

  34. 42

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    23

    Of course oil prices aren’t controlled by the White House. Oil prices are controlled by how much oil consumers use compared to how much oil is coming out of the ground. The people controlling oil prices are:

    (a) The idiots commuting to work in SUVs and pickups;
    (b) The shoppers buying Chinese imports at Wal-Mart, by sending American cash to China which that country uses to buy oil on the world market.

  35. 43

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    23 (continued)

    Although let’s not overlook the fact there’s a big war going on that’s soaking up one hell of a lot of oil. The White House doesn’t control that, either. I say that because it’s clear the White House has gotten themselves into something they can’t get out of.

  36. 44

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    George W. Bush and Dick Cheney have no more control over oil prices than they do over what happens in Iraq. In 2 words, almost none.

  37. 45

    GBS spews:

    All this talk about oil supplies and how tight the market is getting because the demand is up world wide, particularly in China where it’s only going to get worse.

    When you step back a little bit and look at the whole issue you know what you come to realize?

    That for all the right reasons, and for some they didn’t even realize, the Liberal environmentalist were right to try and wean us off of oil way back when. But you know what? The short-sighted conservatives thumbed their collective noses at us and said I’ll drive any size SUV I want; because I can!

    Had we tried to seriously move away from oil in the mid 70’s can you imagine how much better off we’d be today? Now we are faced with a certain reality. Up and coming countries like China and India are going to start consuming more and more and more oil and there is only so much of it in the ground. We need to start dealing with these issues right now with quality leadership that has a vision. Not like Bush who signs an energy bill that does not even begin to address the issue that is central to our economy and national security.

  38. 46

    NoWonder spews:

    It starts to look like the left should encourage big SUVs and accelerated drilling. What better way to teach the wackos a lesson than to a)drain their pockets with $10 gallons of gas, and b)force the US to bring alternatives to market sooner when the oil does run out. Although you lose out when a few oil companies rake it in, the 100 million or so SUV drivers will be paying through the nose.

  39. 47

    Dr. E spews:

    RP @ 33
    “It isn’t easy to define which cities are the most “liberal” and which are the most “conservative”. Especially since there are several scales on which “liberal” and “conservative” can be measured, and people who are quite “liberal” on one scale can be quite “conservative” on another scale.”

    This sums up fairly well the problem I have with the poll, should it be used to determine how “liberal” or “conservative” a city is. All it does is specify voting trends. The study provides no means to gauge the views of the populations of these cities on (among other things) a range of social and economic issues, personal beliefs, etc.

  40. 48

    Donnageddon spews:

    My sweet and endearing xmasG,

    “richard…so basically seattle is the big ZERO i have thought all along?LOL.”

    “don’t get me started on the sad fact that NO ONE and i mean no one can actually drive in washington state.
    god…it’s like the breeding ground for the crash test dummies.”

    Why are you posting on a Washington State Liberal Blog? I am really interested in what motivates a Troll.

  41. 49

    NoWonder spews:

    In a more sarcastic moment I could agree with Roger Rabbit, and suggest that the neocons get with it. Actually take over those countries in the Middle East and capture the oil for our use only. Tell the other OPEC customers that there is a new sheriff in town and that we only sell what we do not need or want – for $500 per barrel. Matbe another time.

  42. 50

    Donnageddon spews:

    GBS @ 41, I wish I had the patience and articulation that you bring here. Another great post!

  43. 51

    GBS spews:

    For all you conservatives who claim Democrats don’t have any new ideas, well here’s one for you. Like JFK’s vision for the space program that brought us many technological advances that we enjoy today, here’s another idea that will pay off for generations to come.

    This is clearly an example of how Liberals have Progressive thinking skills and and Conservatives have retained their Retarded thinking skills. As John Kerry said during the Presidential debates “We have to invent our way out of this problem, not drill our way out.”

    Conservatives want to drill for more oil in Alaska and some fantasy island off of Africa instead of using our brains to change the way we use energy. If this legislation could get traction in congress, but it won’t until the landscape of congress changes, 20 years from now conservatives will look back and say, oh yeah, we did that, too. Always rewriting history.

    http://www.house.gov/inslee/is.....y_act.html

    OK all you short-bus sheeple stop voting Republican, please. For the sake of our country.

  44. 52

    christmasghost spews:

    mark@25..thanks…yes that was the island.
    and roger…calm down, eat a carrot or something. the TYPE of oil is almost more important than the amount. and light sweet crude is da bomb baby.
    funny…but every single one of my very liberal friends all drive big SUV’s. coincidence? i think not.
    and GBS…move away from oil to what? if you think that the oil companies themselves aren’t madly searching for a replacement you are very wrong.we sell products to the oil companies…and trust me they are looking. they wouldn’t be buying products like ours if they weren’t.the person/company that comes up with a VIABLE alternative is going to be a very very rich person.it’s not just what we put in our cars….it’s all the plastics, heating oil [which, btw, seattle-ites are addicted to…you would think this was north dakota] everything you can imagine. so i expect all you libs to feel really really guilty the next time you use your computer or vaseline.interesting combination, no? LOL.
    we need to find a less polluting [no such thing as non polluting] and limitless fuel source.
    and roger…you are morphing ideas again. so now we aren’t fighting the war for oil…we are wasting oil fighting the war?
    B-I-N-G-O……….we have a winner in the first “find the most obtuse and schizoid seattle-ite”

  45. 54

    Richard Pope spews:

    Wow — did the City of Dallas really vote 75.05% for Kerry and 24.95% for Bush? Somehow, I think this figure is seriously wrong. Bush carried Dallas County as a whole 50.34% to 48.95%. He certainly lost the City of Dallas.

    The study used 2000 census population figures. 1,188,580 people in the City of Dallas, and the entire Dallas County has 2,218,899
    people. So if Kerry won the City of Dallas by more than 3 to 1 over Bush, but Bush carried Dallas County as a whole (when less than half the people in the county live outside the city limits), then Bush would have had to win the suburbs in Dallas County by an astronomical margin.

    Bush carried the cities of Houston, San Antonio, and Fort Worth each by several points. So it would seem nearly impossible to get beat in the city of Dallas by more than three to one.

  46. 55

    christmasghost spews:

    donnageddon said…..”Why are you posting on a Washington State Liberal Blog? I am really interested in what motivates a Troll.”
    okay…number one…why not? i live here, and free speech and discussion are very good things.
    number two…..do you know what the definition of “troll” is? i’ll give you a hint…it’s not someone that has a different point of view than yours.
    * GBS when kerry said …“We have to invent our way out of this problem, not drill our way out.” did you happen to notice that he didn’t have any ideas on just how to do that? if he did he wouldn’t have to be sucking up to the witch of the west to get his bar tab paid.it’s a good idea…but ,alas, right now…it’s ONLY an idea.
    and GBS…..short bus? so you have a problem with mentally disabled people?
    note to self…add this to long list of slurs and insults used by libs when cornered.

  47. 56

    GBS spews:

    @ 48

    I’m not so delusional as to believe that Presto Change-o we’re magically not using oil at all, any more.

    OK? I’m a realist. So too, are you.

    One thing I know about this country, when we set our minds to accomplish something, together we will ALWAYS get the job done. So being realists, we have to begin the process of moving away from oil as the base of our economy and making use of the alternative energies that are at our disposal. The chief problem is the costs to develop and use them. As with all new technologies it’s always expensive in the beginning i.e. $900 VCR’s when they first came out. But, it’s not going to get any cheaper and an attack on Saudi Arabia’s oil fields by terrorists could and would pose serious consequences for our economy and security.

    Do you or do you not agree that we should move away from oil as soon as possible?

    P.S.: I don’t get the computer / vaseline analogy. Could you explain? Obviously you know something about this that I don’t. **snicker, snicker**

  48. 58

    GBS spews:

    ChristmasGhost @ 51

    A) I don’t have a problem with people who are “diffrently abled” not disabled.

    B) Would you like me to copy and past some of the verbage posted here by well know coservatives?

    C) I only made the connection between conservatives and the short bus because I saw a short bus in Bellevue that had “W 2004″ bumper stickers on it. Geeez, sue me already.

  49. 59

    GBS spews:

    More importantly though ChristmasGhost, please comment on the president signing his energy policy into law, which by his own admission won’t reduce our dependency on foreign oil, reduce the cost of gasoline, or do anything to promote alternative energy sources.

    VS.

    Jay Inslee’s proposed energy legislation which addresses these critical issues.

    Your specific comments, please.

  50. 61

    For the Clueless spews:

    XmasGoose –

    so now we aren’t fighting the war for oil…we are wasting oil fighting the war?

    How do you survive from day to day? You can’t string a logical argument or separate concerns to save your life.

    What a loon!

  51. 62

    christmasghost spews:

    GBS……nah..i knew the way you meant it….it’s okay…. it was a joke. just jerking your chain a wee bit.
    differently abled. fah! there is nothing wrong with disabled…i am, so i can say that. it’s like calling a garbage man a sanitary engineer…he still picks up garbage.
    and for the record we use the term all the time…as in “did you just arrive on the short bus?”
    my youngest son was once cornered by a pain in the ass who asked him “isn’t it hard having a mom that has seizures?” and he replied…”nah….we just throw her in the bath tub with water and detergent and do our laundry”
    the “concerned” griller was appalled and we laughed our asses off.
    and i too have a problem with anyone [i don’t care if they are conservative or whatever] that is mean just for the sake of being mean. life is too short. if we are lucky all we get is 100 years…not very long is it?
    i will be honest and tell you that i have not read the president’s energy plan yet. it’s a tie as to whether i want to do that first OR have my foot eaten off by african army ants.but i am pretty sure that ,like most politician’s ideas, it will be full of junk science and pork for friends. and if you are all being honest…that cuts to both sides of the aisle.
    i may be a conservative…but my real party is the “i don’t suffer fools well” party.
    and when was the last time we had a politician that went into office just because he wanted to make the world a better place?
    hmmmm?
    it wasn’t kerry that’s for sure.

  52. 63

    GBS spews:

    ChristmasGhost @ 57

    Whew! For a moment there I thought you might have been mad about the cripple joke. So if you were to join a gang would it be the Bloods or the Crips? Hey, the next time you’re having a seizure, can we put a saddle on ya and see who can hang on for the longest?

    Of course we’ll chip in some cash and donate it to the winners favorite charity.

    There’s another 20-30 years of purgatory for me. Oh man, I’m hoping Jesus has a warped sense of humor like me. Hey wait, he must, he created me in His image. Holy Crap! That means we look alike, think alike, talk alike. Damn, he’s good lookin’, too. Lucky guy. Well, that’s what you get when you’re God’s only begotten son. Just look at his 6-pack abs, Jesus is RIPPED. Lucky Devil, nope strike that!

  53. 64

    GBS spews:

    @ 57

    Seriously, I’m with you all politicians squander our money. Period. What makes me angry today more than ever, is that the Republicans ran on cleaning up congress, duped the masses, then screwed us like we’ve never been hammered before.

    The ultimate irony, the conservative base make excuses for being lied to. This is the very definition of an abusive relationship. Someone lies, abuses, and others make excuses for their perp’s bad behavior.

    Do you ever wonder what happened to you party that made a Contract with America? Now it turns out the Dem’s were right when they said Contract ON America.

  54. 65

    GBS spews:

    And now, for the Coup de Gras @ 57

    “when was the last time we had a politician that went into office just because he wanted to make the world a better place?
    hmmmm?
    it wasn’t kerry that’s for sure. ”

    I think, based on the state of affairs here and abroad, the same can certainly be said for Bush if not more so.

  55. 66

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    45

    “take over those countries in the Middle East and capture the oil for our use”

    The neocons already tried that, and look where it got them.

  56. 67

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    48

    “the TYPE of oil is almost more important than the amount”

    Uh, no … it’s not. The only way to consume 84 million bpd is to produce 84 million bpd. You may have the lightest, sweetest, crude on earth but if there’s only 1 million barrels of it, it would supply our import needs for only 2 hours.

  57. 68

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    “so now we aren’t fighting the war for oil…we are wasting oil fighting the war?”

    We’re wasting oil fighting a war for oil we’re never gonna get. Make sense? No, I didn’t think so. It doesn’t make sense to me, either.

  58. 69

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    51

    “when kerry said ‘We have to invent our way out of this problem, not drill our way out.’ did you happen to notice that he didn’t have any ideas on just how to do that?”

    If he did, we wouldn’t have to invent it, would we?

    Let’s play a little game. We’ll that George W. Bush and Thomas A. Edison are having a conversation in, say, 1878.

    Edison: What the world needs is for somebody to invent a good light bulb.

    Bush: Hogwash. We have whale oil lamps.

    Edison: Yes; but at the rate we’re burning whale oil, the world will soon run out of whales.

    Bush: So what? Let’s use up the whales we’ve got, and worry about that later.

  59. 70

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    52

    I can’t speak for Harry, but I do own a car. I’ve been leaving it parked with the doors open, keys in the ignition, and engine running but I still can’t get anybody to steal it.

  60. 71

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    59

    “the Republicans ran on cleaning up congress, duped the masses, then screwed us like we’ve never been hammered before”

    Another politician who did that comes immediately to mind. Why anyone would let a paperhanger with a funny little mustache run a whole country is beyond me.

  61. 72

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    It’s hilarious that Stefan posted his address on his own web site! I think I’ll go shit on his lawn again. See you guys later.

  62. 73

    NoWonder spews:

    Roger Rabbit @ 63

    ‘It doesn’t make sense to me, either.’

    That’s the problem with making up reasons why GW went to war. (i.e. to capture the oil) It is then very easy to wonder why GW can’t even do that right.

  63. 74

    Harry Poon spews:

    haven’t had much time to blog lately…just a quick reminder to all conservatives that they are still complete wads with no honor or intelligence….

  64. 75

    Mark spews:

    Roger @ 32: “Do your own fucking research.”

    That’s rich. You Lefties SCREEEEEAM for proof when anyone to the Right of Kucinich states an uncited fact.

    “My time is worth something.”

    Yeah, that and $3.75 will buy you a cup of Starbucks.

    Roger @ 34: “According to Wikipedia…”

    Wikipedia is a nice starting point for research, but isn’t even good enough for an 8th grade book report. Anyone can write anything they want and it’ll stay that way until someone else edits it.

    CG @ 48: “every single one of my very liberal friends all drive big SUV’s”

    Interesting. A lot of the clearly Lefty cars I see, based on bumber stickers, are FOREIGN (guess they didn’t look for the union label), running on bad tires and are belching smoke. Way to look out for your union bretheren; the safety of other drivers, pedestrians and your passengers; and the environment!

  65. 76

    BiRightGuy spews:

    I’m for I-912 because safe roads are socialism at its worst. Why shouldn’t we get corporations to BUY the roads, then the FREE MARKET will determine who should live and who should die.

  66. 77

    marks spews:

    Richard Pope @50

    Wow – did the City of Dallas really vote 75.05% for Kerry and 24.95% for Bush?

    I think the numbers are exactly right. Were you to take a look at the composition of the city council, the numbers are reflective (as Goldy says: “Nonpartisan, my ass”).

    Fortunately, the city is not the county.

  67. 78

    marks spews:

    harry poontang @69

    Loocy, knock it off…though I must give you credit when you forgo the “little eichmann” speel.

  68. 79

    Mark spews:

    NoWonder @ 68: “That’s the problem with making up reasons why GW went to war. (i.e. to capture the oil) It is then very easy to wonder why GW can’t even do that right.”

    Since Day One, my suspicion has been that it had a little bit to do with suspected WMD’s (a leeetle bit), a bit more to do with a murdering madman, a bit to do with oil and a LOT to do with getting a nice, solid strategic foothold in the region so that we can tell Saudi do go screw themselves.

    Not long ago, I was reading something online and I think it was the Boston Globe talking about that same theory.

    Now, I don’t say that this is Bush’s plan. They may yank my RNC card for saying this, but I’m sure he just gets the bullet point summary page. If it had been done right, it could have had a big upside — control over some oil fields, strategic position in the area, a bit of vacuum effect for terrorists and the ability to tell Saudi to start cracking down on terrorists & their funding.

  69. 80

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    I’m absolutely amazed by the level of ignorance being shown on oil prices. You moonbats ought to take a few courses in economics and get an understanding of commodity markets instead of just repeating stuff you were told by The Creator Of The Internet.

    Let me bust a few myths.

    1) Despite the fact that GWB is from Texas, and there is oil in Texas, it does not follow that GWB controls the price of oil.

    2) Despite the fact that Vice President Cheney worked for an oil services company before becoming VP, he does not control the price of oil either.

    3) Oil companies do not control the price of oil.

    4) SUVs do not cause high gas prices.

    The price of oil follows the economic laws of commodity markets. It is a global market; it does not matter where the demand is or where the supply comes from. In commodity markets, there is a single price that maximizes revenue, and that is the target price that OPEC seeks. They then adjust output to generate that price based on the shape and slope of the price-demand curve. That’s all there is to it. The rest of the argument is then over who gets to pump how much to meet the output target that maximizes revenue.

  70. 81

    Richard Pope spews:

    Marks @ 71

    The Dallas city figures are WAY wrong. But it is often difficult to get figures at the city level. You have to get the county precinct-by-precinct totals, then figure out which precincts are in the city. Also, the Dallas County Elections figures at the precinct level have three different kinds of ballots (poll, early mail, early in person) and don’t add them up at the precinct level.

    All of the necessary information is available on the Dallas County Elections website:

    http://www.dalcoelections.org/

    Dallas city isn’t that much different demographically from Dallas County as a whole. More Kerry leaning of course, but I doubt Kerry even got 55% out of Dallas city, and no way it was more than 60%.

  71. 82

    GeoCrackr spews:

    I’m not going to read through all 74 posts, so someone may have brought this up already: it seems to me that the study is misrepresented by the “non-partisan Bay Area Center for Voting Research”, the P-I, and Goldy, in that it’s really ranking the most Democratic cities, and not really the most liberal. Sure, they included the miniscule number of votes for actual liberal political parties just to make it look good, but they’re really looking at Democratic voting patterns, and no matter what the delusional right-wingtards believe, the Democratic party — while including notable exceptions like our own honorable McDermott — isn’t “liberal” by any reasonable measure.

  72. 83

    christmasghost spews:

    GBS@58…HEH HEH HEH HEH….nyuk nyuk nyuk.that is a good one…gotta tell my sons that one, they’ll think it’s funny as hell.
    the rules are the same as with bronc riding…it’s 8 seconds or nothing!
    seriously, if you can’t laugh at stuff like this…you have no sense of humor.
    and of course…it would be the CRIPS….DUH! LOL.
    now i know i will piss off the less well humored amoung us [you know who you are …and after reading this so will everyone else probably.] but did you ever think that who ever…ah hem…wrote the bible was dyslexic and G-O-D is really a D-O-G????
    i’m probably going to hell now too…but i always figured that all the really funny people i know will be there, so it will be like old home week.LOL.

  73. 84

    Richard Pope spews:

    Okay, I have some reliable election results from the City of Dallas (which also includes 6 precincts in Denton County and 13 precincts in Collin County) for the November 2004 general election:

    John F. Kerry 200,854 57.75%
    George W. Bush 146,952 42.25%

    http://pages.sbcglobal.net/tom.blackwell/

    Their methodology is WAY off as I said before.

  74. 86

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I’m back from doing my duty on Stefan’s lawn. He may find it a bit squishy after the next rain, but the carpets will be all right if he wipes his shoes on the doormat, and the flowers will grow good next spring!

  75. 87

    Moonbat spews:

    73

    Hey Redneck, we’re clued in to supply and demand asshole.

    If you’re so freakin’ smart why don’t you pull some oil out of your ass and drop the price on the spot market.

    Oh I get it, there’s more money to be made by raising the price. So keep the black gold in your ass.

    As always, fuck you and the HUMMER you rode in on.

  76. 88

    marks spews:

    Richard Pope @77

    I read the link, but that link is more screwed than using Dallas County numbers.

    I know what you are talking about, but I don’t think we are anywhere near the same page…

    Perhaps I can zero in on it:

    From you @ 50: 1,188,580 people in the City of Dallas, and the entire Dallas County has 2,218,899…

    Oh, you are using Clinton census numbers :)

  77. 89

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    73

    “there is a single price that maximizes revenue, and that is the target price that OPEC seeks. They then adjust output to generate that price based on the shape and slope of the price-demand curve. That’s all there is to it.”

    No, that isn’t all there is to it … but leave it to a self-proclaimed redneck to blame gas prices on OPEC. (This must be OPEC’s week to be Mark’s hate object.)

    For your edification, Mark, OPEC can’t even control output much less price. Know why? Reason #1 – OPEC pumps only 40% of the world’s oil. Reason #2 – OPEC sets quotas on its member, but its members cheat. Reason #3 – OPEC itself says it has lost control of prices. http://www.energybulletin.net/4746.html Pertinent quote: “Consumption is now believed by many analysts to be pressing up against the limits of what the world can produce.”

    It’s mostly about consumption, Mark:

    2001 – 77,670,000 bpd
    2002 – 78,370,000 bpd
    2003 – 79,900,000 bpd
    2004 – 82,530,000 bpd
    2005 – 84,380,000 bpd (thru 1st quarter)

    Source of data: U.S. Department of Energy http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/in.....roleu.html

    There are some other factors behind spiking gas prices, such as dollar devaluations (caused by trade and budget deficits) and refinery shutdowns. But consumption is the big story. And Americans are contributing their share: U.S. consumption is up nearly 1 million bpd in the last 2 years. That’s mostly caused by

    G A S G U Z Z L E R S

  78. 90

    marks spews:

    Richard Pope,

    Sorry, my “honey-do” list is not quite complete, so I short-handed the answer for fun. To be honest, I intend to find the answer. I saw numbers of 200K to 150K which do not add up to the 32nd most liberal city. I would like to know the answer, too…

  79. 91

    Moonbat spews:

    82

    Roger don’t hit the redneck with too many facts. The walnut that passes for his brain will hurt so much he’ll need a week of watching Faux News to reduce the swelling.

  80. 92

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    THE TRUTH ABOUT U.S. REFINERY CAPACITY

    Wingnuts are fond of blaming environmentalists for loss of U.S. refining capacity. They base this claim on the declining number of refineries in the U.S. The truth is U.S. refinery capacity INCREASED by 12% from 1994 to 2004 — from 15 million bpd to 16.9 million bpd. This is because the largest and most efficient refineries are adding more capacity than is being lost through closure of older, smaller, and less efficient refineries. While environmental expenses may have precipitated the closure of some of these units, their owners’ real reason for closing them was “they predicted that they could not stay competitive in the long term.”

    Source: U.S. Department of Energy http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/usa.html

  81. 93

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Oh, and major oil company profits were up 67% for the 2nd quarter of 2004 compared to 2003, year over year. I don’t know the figures for 2005 to date, but I assume 2005 over 2004 comparisons are similar, as oil stocks are up sharply over the last 6 months.

  82. 94

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @84

    You’re right; gotta be more careful I don’t give Mark an aneurysm — don’t want that on my conscience.

  83. 95

    Chuck spews:

    Does it bug you libs that the top movie right now is the Dukes of Hazzard? A movie that is essentially about redneck back home (lb translation backwards) with real family values (liberal trans needing social work) with government problems (lib trans we are from the gov., we are here to help.

  84. 98

    christmasghost spews:

    and roger…i just have to add that there is nothing wrong with oil companies making a profit. if they didn’t they wouldn’t be in business long. that’s what companies do…if they are sucessful…they make profits. which pay wages and taxes etc.
    it seems to me that the modern day uber liberals are the most sybil-like people on the planet. they hate big business but love unions. they want more taxes but hate profitable companies. they want cheap services but don’t want to pay the price[ie dealing with china etc.]they are for the little guy, but want to tell him where to shop. they love the environment but drink lot’s of coffee and go on vacations halfway around the world. they are pro american unions but buy foreign cars. volvos and subarus are the poor libs car…mercedes and beemers belong to the rich libs.
    not-so-closet elitism.
    you guys aren’t even yuppies…you are guppies. so i have to ask…would you like flakes or pellets in your bowls tonight?
    let me guess….flakes, of course.

  85. 99

    Heath spews:

    1) I believe in LIBERALLY construing Land Use regulations to the benefit of the landowner.
    2) I believe in a LIBERAL interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.
    3) I believe in a LIBERAL application of the term LEFTIST PINHEAD.

    Aha. So you are a libertarian, and not a progressive. That’s nice to know. Ten years ago, I was a card-carrying member of the Libertarian party. There’s hope for you, yet, Mr. Cynical.

    For what it’s worth, I also support a wide-ranging interpretation of the 2nd ammendment. (I don’t own a gun anymore, although I still have a CPL. The fact is that most confrontations are better served by hand-to-hand skill than by packing heat; and you can’t have both at the same time without risking getting shot with your own gun.)

    But my interpretation of the 2nd ammendment would focus on ‘well regulated.’ In particular, Glocks with safeties are a ridiculous exception, and I don’t care about the trigger pull weight argument. Overall, a ‘well regulated militia’ really ought to mean something. Perhaps a real competence test, similar to drivers’ licensing.

    One thing we can all agree on is that firearms are not ‘well regulated.’ Our lawmakers are concerned with cosmetic or useful features like bayonet fixtures or flash supressors. The real problem is gang-bangers with pistols.

    If you fire a taser, the taggants in the explosive identify that round by serial number. Let’s do that with gunpowder, both the kind sold in rounds, and the kind sold for making rounds.

    Sound like a good, liberal, interpretation to you?

  86. 100

    Heath spews:

    Mark Le Redneck:

    SUVs do not cause high gas prices.

    Inefficient vehicles increase the per-trip-mile demand for gas. Some trip-miles are a constant, like work commutes.

    Beyond the supply-demand argument, it’s just immoral to drive a vehicle that is that inefficient, makes that much pollution, and is that much more dangerous in an impact.

  87. 101

    Mark1 spews:

    Better demand the old Washington State way: ‘recounts till we win’ on that note. That poll couldn’t possibly be correct. God help this state. Thanks.

  88. 103

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    88

    “Does it bug you libs that the top movie right now is the Dukes of Hazzard?”

    No, why should it? We libs like fast cars, hot babes, and outwitting the law. D’ya think we just sit around sipping lattes and eating yogurt? ‘Scuse me, gotta go, it’s time for target practice.

  89. 105

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    91

    Did I say I have a problem with oil companies making a profit? When? I bought an oil stock for $44 ten weeks ago that’s now above $60 — am I complaining? :D

  90. 106

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Heath @ 93 – Libs lecturing on “immorality”. You crack me up. Who TF are you to lecture anybody about morality.

    I love my big SUV. I drive it ’cause I can afford it. If the noble poooor can’t afford to drive, fuck them. That way I can get around faster.

    Please “educate” me… what should I be driving? A little shitbox hybrid? A bus? A choo choo?

  91. 107

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Wabbit – Like I said, go get some education so you have some fucking idea what to do with all those numbers and what they mean.

  92. 108

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Mark, I’m not interested in getting into an educational-credentials pissing match with you — it would sound like bragging on my part. That’s not my style, because I’m a modest bunny. Really. I’m not given to judgmentalism, either, therefore I tend to avoid the subject of morality. Let me just say this about morality — there’s none on the GOP side, for all their high-falutin’ talk about it. You’re a case in point; you exemplify why we need a Republican Party — so there’s someplace to put self-centered pricks with no social conscience like you because we sure as hell don’t want ‘em in the Democratic Party.

    You know, Mark, there’s a place in the overall scheme of things for self interest. You just take it to absurd extremes, that’s all. Kind of like the guy who drinks good whiskey, but too damn much of it — it’s unhealthy, know what I mean?

    There’s another school of thought, with which you’re totally unfamiliar, that argues we’re all in this together. Some people analogize Planet Earth as a lifeboat. Now here’s a philosophical question for you: When one person in the lifeboat eats all the food and drinks all the water, and refuses to take his turn on the oars — do the rest of the lifeboat passengers have a moral right to throw his fat ass overboard?

  93. 109

    Heath spews:

    Mark,

    Don’t suggest that I can’t afford an SUV, in terms of the cash. Quite the contrary.

    Yes, you should be driving a hybrid or taking a bus. If you need a truck, you should drive a truck.

    You drive an SUV for the same reason you hate women, Mark. Compensation for your small package.

  94. 110

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    It’s gonna be fun watching Mark trying to hitch a ride on a bicycle after the oil runs out.

  95. 112

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Actually I think Mark would look good sitting on the rear haunches of a jackass. You can drive THAT when the oilwell goes dry, Mark.

  96. 113

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Or he could try riding on a large bunny (but he’d better be careful which bunny he chooses).

  97. 115

    David T. spews:

    Aside from the fact that cities where minorities rule are the most liberal, it is quite obvious to me that the liberal cities are much better places to live. Even the neo-cons who live in Seattle would rather live here than in Provo, Utah, or else they would be, right? Of course it also helps that there are more jobs and opportunities for a good life in the lib cities.

    http://www.homesteadbook.com/blog

  98. 116

    jockey spews:

    If I get crashed by a mid-size car, or especially those hybrids and “batteries not included” cars I want my family to come out alive and kickin. You bet – the bigger the SUV the better.

  99. 117

    christmasghost spews:

    GBS@56…sorry didn’t see the post right away.
    oh, i absolutely agree that we should move away from oil. however, at this point that is just a big pipe dream.and you’re right about us traditionally being able to pull together and do anything. but there has been alot of change and in today’s america people would rather bicker and point fingers than work together. just look at this board. i have been told many times to get out ,shut up…and yet, i am always polite though perhaps a little mocking.we were attacked on sept. 11th…in a much bigger way than pearl harbor. yet…how long did it take for people to start looking for someone to blame HERE IN THE US rather than the people who were actually guilty? five seconds on the geological time clock? yup.
    right now about the only free and high level high energy source is the radiation from the sun ,both in direct heat and then through photosynthesis that produces most of the non petroleum hydro carbons.BUT…it’s impractical at this point to harness it to the degree to which it’s required.finding alternative fuel sources is one of the research projects that our company is involved with.
    we could recycle more plastics to re use, we could make plastics out of bio mass…but it all takes energy. i don’t know how you feel about it but i am not a fan of nuclear power at all. i think it is a disaster waiting to happen.
    but again, i have to say, as a conservative from northern california now living in this state…i have NEVER in my life[at least in the states anyway] seen the waste that takes place here. the trash everywhere. the polluted water. and the jammed freeways. next time you have the pleasure of being on them check out the other cars around you…..you will only see one person in most of them. i find that sad and puzzling..here in liberal-ville shouldn’t people practice what they preach? i have a completely organic garden, i never use any herbicides or pesticides and i don’t jump in the car every five minutes to go on an errand. i actually plan and go twice a week.and that’s just me…the big bad conservative. my neighbors who are all super liberal do all the things i just said i didn’t. especially the chemicals and constant driving.but they put up their little kerry signs….and T-A-L-K alot about the environment.while trashing it.
    it seems to me that we all need to be on the same page when it comes to all these things.
    and hey guys…if you really want to help…tune your cars up and change the sparkplugs okay? you’ll save alot just doing that.

    and vaseline and computers are both made from petroleum products…get your mind out of the gutter…heh heh heh.

  100. 118

    christmasghost spews:

    harry @74…not only are you just crude and innane….you aren’t BLOGGING toots…you are commenting. that’s all.

  101. 119

    spews:

    xmasghost @98 “they are pro american unions but buy foreign cars.”

    I drive a six year old Toyota that was made in America by a car company that until recently has been moving good-paying union jobs into this country from Asia. It’s mindblowing, I’m sure. Know what else? Most of the European brands that get mocked as elite cars are now part of US conglomerates. General Motors’ Saab, Chrysler’s Mercedes and Ford’s Volvo come to mind immediately.

    Guess what else I’m in favor of? Not losing half the value of my investment the same damn day I drive a car off a lot. Instead, it took these six years to shave the Blue Book down to half the original sticker. One would think you’d approve of such a sound, capitalist-minded concern on the part of a car buyer.

    Good jobs are going away in this country because many of our corporations like to sell crap at a volume discount and it doesn’t make sense to pay more than a dollar a day for that. When they don’t want to make crap they’re having a harder time finding educated workers here and our healthcare system is too expensive, giving countries that invest in education and healthcare for everyone an edge at the high end of the labor pool.

    The world is too complex and changing a little too fast for your cliches to keep time, but don’t give up. You may one day stumble upon the One True Sweeping Generalization that doesn’t fall apart on closer inspection.

  102. 120

    Chuck spews:

    natasha@119
    You buy the wrong cars if you lose money on them, Ive made mobney buying cars for years, Buick GNX, Buick Grand National, Pontiac Trans Am (Burt Reynolds style), ect. And you have been loosing money on your jap crap….