Comments

  1. 3

    Mark spews:

    I don’t know about invading Iran, but at a minumum we should be bombing SOMETHING in Iran. The Quds Force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps – the paramilitary wing of the Iranian military that specializes in things like kidnapping, bombings, assassinations, and other terrorist activities is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Americans. They are arming and training Shiite militias ans were behind the attack on a US military compound in Karbala that left 5 Americans dead. There is now evidence of the Lebanese Hezbollah doing the same things in Iraq, no doubt because Hezbollah is indebdted to Iran for the years or financial and military support in Lebanon.

    Add in Iran’s nuclear program that cannot be allowed to exist and you have a justifiable case for military action against Iran.

    Or is this just yet another “Bush lie”?

  2. 4

    Another TJ spews:

    From Pedantics Are Me:

    “it least…”?

    Also, these are the people who ran the Nixon White House, and the lesson they learned was to destroy the tapes, not to not commit the offense in the first place. Impeachment should be the first step in the long process of crushing their political lives forever. We can’t just let them sculk away in a year and a half. They must be exposed, tried and convicted, then publicly humiliated at every turn for every offense.

    Make examples of them or we will be dealing with this type of corruption for another generation at least.

  3. 6

    RD spews:

    Mark –

    I’ve got news for you: if the current administration hadn’t convinced the grossly uninformed and (apparenlty) highly gullible population with outright lies about Iraq, it’s highly doubtful we’d be there at all. So, what end would be served by entering a military conflict with Iran — a nation that can mobilize millions, militarily? Iran is not the problem; the Cheney/neo-con cabal is the problem.

    And one more thing: Why can’t Iran’s “nuclear program” be allowed to exist? Are we the only nation on earth that is allowed to let a small cabal of psychopaths to control an arsenenal of nuclear weapons? Wouldn’t that be a double standard?

  4. 7

    Mark spews:

    RD says:

    Mark –

    I’ve got news for you: if the current administration hadn’t convinced the grossly uninformed and (apparenlty) highly gullible population with outright lies about Iraq, it’s highly doubtful we’d be there at all. So, what end would be served by entering a military conflict with Iran — a nation that can mobilize millions, militarily? Iran is not the problem; the Cheney/neo-con cabal is the problem.

    And one more thing: Why can’t Iran’s “nuclear program” be allowed to exist? Are we the only nation on earth that is allowed to let a small cabal of psychopaths to control an arsenenal of nuclear weapons? Wouldn’t that be a double standard?

    If you are going to compare the Bush Administration, whatever you may think of it, to the mullah regime in Iran led my the Hitler of our time, Ahmadinijad – then that says all I need to know about YOU. You have ZERO common sense or sense of perspective. It is 100% intolerable for Iran to possess a nuclear weapon under any circumstances. Or is Ahmadinijad just a puppet of the “neo cons” when he says Israel will be “wiped off the map” in order to justify military action?

    I agree – the Iraq war was a mistake and a disaster, but that doesn’t change the facts about Iran and the threat they pose to the civilized world.

  5. 8

    GBS spews:

    Mark @ 3:

    Your thinking is a direct reflection of how far conservatives have drifted from the traditional American values given to us by our Founding Fathers.

    War is the avenue of last resort. The Bush administration has not even scratched the surface of diplomatic pressure to bring a sensible conclusion to this problem.

    Unfortunately, according to many generals whom are life long Republicans and even voted for Bush, now say he has nearly broken our military with his failed leadership as Commander-In-Chief in the civil war in Iraq and the War on Terror in general. As Gen. Ricardo Sanchez put it: “There’s been a failure of leadership in the White House since 911.”

    Republicans cannot lead. They have proven this to the American public beyond the shadow of any reasonable doubt.

    They have abolished many of our civil liberties that so many have fought a died for. The last and failed Republican congress delivered to George W. Bush the power to solely decide if an American citizen is an “enemy combatant” and have them arrested, imprisoned, no contact with their family, a lawyer, access to the evidence, a speedy trial, and they can even be tortured. How completely un-American!!

    Did you know that after WWII the United States tried and convicted foregin soldiers for “water boarding” American soldiers because they considered it a form of inhumane torture. How quaint, huh?

    The previous elections overwhelmingly demonstrated the public’s lack of confidence in vesting the powers of government in Republicans. Not one Democrat running for re-election as a governor, congressional representative or senator lost their seats. Not ONE!!

    The Blue Wave is just beginning to surge and I hope and pray that the next president of the Untied States declares George W. Bush and Dick Cheney “unlawful enemy combatants.” Then we can open up all their “secret” presidential and executive files and shed the light of truth on two of America’s most notorious criminals.

  6. 9

    Yer Killin Me spews:

    Iran may be run by religious nutjobs (from our point of view), but they’re religious nutjobs whose religion states that lying is a Very Bad Thing. So when the Supreme Council (who outrank Ahmadinnerjacket) says that nuclear weapons are “un-Islamic,” isn’t there the teeniest weeniest littlest slightest possiblilty that that means they won’t develop any?

    Or is this country so far gone that we think that just because our “elected” leaders lie to us, everyone else does too?

  7. 10

    Mark spews:

    GBS says:

    Mark @ 3:

    Your thinking is a direct reflection of how far conservatives have drifted from the traditional American values given to us by our Founding Fathers.

    So by that logic – what you are saying is that the Founding Fathers would want us to let Iran go on and continue to kill American troops, supporting terrorism, and build a nuclear weapon?

    And by the way – the sympathy you feel for our enemies by complaining about “torture” ad nauseum is really pathetic. Water boarding, sounds like something that happens to Marine Corps recruits every day at the Marine Corps Recruit Depot’s in San Diego and Parris Island, SC. By your standard, Drill Instructors should be charged with “torture”.

    Torture schmorture, I have ZERO sympathy with al Qaeda detainees. If the CIA wants to go to work on them in the most brutal and unimagineable ways, then by all means go ahead! The only regret I have is that I can’t be there to watch. Thrown naked into 60 below zero freezers, bamboo under the fingernails, pliers and blow torches to various body parts…..the possibilities are endless!

  8. 12

    chadt spews:

    Come to think of it, perhaps you are, Mark. You sure sound like them in the rest of your rants.

  9. 13

    GBS spews:

    Why have the neocons taken their eye off of North Korea?

    Is Kim Jong Il any more rational than the mullahs or Ahmadinejad?

    Of course not.

    But here’s a lunatic who, prior to the Bush administration did not have a nuclear bomb and did not posses enriched, weapons grade nuclear material.

    While the Republicans were sleeping at the helm, the North Koreans thumbed their noses at the Bush admin and went ahead with their nuclear bomb program. All with a little help from that friendly little country that installed the Taliban in Afghanistan and supported Osama bin Laden and allows bin Laden to live in the “lawless” region of Pakistan.

    Conservatives — The anti-American crowd doing more harm to America than bin Laden could ever have imagined! Or, maybe bin Laden’s smarter than we think and he waited until George W. Bush became president to hit America because he knew the neocons would play right into his hands like the Russians did in Afghanistan. When you think about it, he’s bleeding us dry just like the Russians. That drain on the USSR’s resources, military, economy had more to do with collapse of the USSR than Reagan building up our military. As conservatives would like to have you believe.

  10. 14

    chadt spews:

    @9

    Religious nutjobs of any persuasion have a history of rapidly changing “the truth” to fit the moment. It’s as quick as a “revelation”, or “new understanding of (insert scriptural sources here)”

    They condemned suicide bombings until they didn’t. Roman Catholicism once banned certain weapons,too, until they didn’t.

  11. 15

    ArtFart spews:

    7 “If you are going to compare the Bush Administration, whatever you may think of it, to the mullah regime in Iran led my the Hitler of our time, Ahmadinijad – then that says all I need to know about YOU.”

    Well, Markie-poo, I guess you know all you need to know about me, as well. I consider the Bushistas to be inisputably worse than the clowns in Iran, and well on the way to parity with the Hitler of two-thirds of a century ago.

    Why? The Mullahs took over a country that was already pretty messed up, and no doubt made it even worse, while the neocons have taken less than seven years to fuck up what was the greatest country on the planet.

  12. 17

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Why Republicans Shouldn’t Be Licensed To Practice Law

    Because they might get appointed to some court by some wingnut faux-president with a crack-fried brain, that’s why! The 6th Circuit Court of Appeals, by a vote of 2 Republican judges to 1 Democratic judge, ruled today that you have no standing to sue the government to get a court ruling on the legality of secret warrantless domestic surveillance unless you can prove they’re spying on it — how the hell are you supposed to prove that when they’re keeping it secret and the only way to find out is to sue them?!!!

    Another rotten decision from Constitution-shredding wingnut judges who never should have been allowed outside a supervised playpen, let alone licensed to practice law, let alone appointed to a federal court.

    http://news.aol.com/story/_a/c.....5009990014

  13. 18

    spews:

    Mark said:

    “I don’t know about invading Iran, but at a minumum we should be bombing SOMETHING in Iran. The Quds Force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps – the paramilitary wing of the Iranian military that specializes in things like kidnapping, bombings, assassinations, and other terrorist activities is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Americans. They are arming and training Shiite militias ans were behind the attack on a US military compound in Karbala that left 5 Americans dead. There is now evidence of the Lebanese Hezbollah doing the same things in Iraq, no doubt because Hezbollah is indebdted to Iran for the years or financial and military support in Lebanon.

    Add in Iran’s nuclear program that cannot be allowed to exist and you have a justifiable case for military action against Iran.

    Or is this just yet another “Bush lie”?

    And herein lies the problem. Is is just another “Bush lie”?

    We were told, directly, by high ranking members of the Bush administration that it was “beyond question” that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

    Now those same folks are saying that the only way to prevent Iran from developing those same weapons is to go to war against it.

    At the same time, the administration seems determined to scuttle any alternative means of preventing Iran from desiring nuclear weapons. Actually, the actions of the administration seem to be actually encouraging the Iranian hardliners, and at the same time they have demonstrated that the most dangerous position for a country to be in is to have the administration say they are developing weapons of mass destruction, while they do not actually have those weapons.

    Witness Iraq and North Korea. Iraq had given up its programs, and while they were somewhat proud and stubborn aboutn allowing inspectors unfettered access to check under the toilet seat in Saddam’s private bathroom, the inspections were proceeding.

    We attacked

    North Korea made no secret that they were developing nuclear weapons. In fact, they bragged about it. They are currently still technically in a state of war with a major US ally.

    And after dismantling the previous agreement to keep them from developing nuclear weapons (an accomplishment the Bush administration was actually proud of) we are now negotiating with North Korea to keep the from building any more nuclear weapons.

    In essence, the administration is busily heading off any option except war with Iran, and telling us that we should just trust them on this one.

    I don’t think so.

  14. 19

    GBS spews:

    Mark says:

    GBS says:

    Mark @ 3:

    Your thinking is a direct reflection of how far conservatives have drifted from the traditional American values given to us by our Founding Fathers.

    So by that logic – what you are saying is that the Founding Fathers would want us to let Iran go on and continue to kill American troops, supporting terrorism, and build a nuclear weapon?

    A conservative using the word “LOGIC.”

    This is where Al Gore has it exactly right in his book The Assault on Reason.” What I said, Ass Hole, is that “War is the avenue of last resort. The Bush administration has not even scratched the surface of diplomatic pressure to bring a sensible conclusion to this problem.”

    Our Founding Fathers would rather we wield our power judiciously and only if absolutely necessary.

    As for your “Torture schmorture” comment you only reaffirmed my point that conservatives have abandoned traditional American values and principles. It was George Washington who laid down the tradition of treating our enemy humanely after they’ve been captured.

    Your sadistic views are aligned with the methods of Saddam Hussein and every other brutal dictator of infamy. These are not the standards of America.

    Your own words prove you are not a patriotic American. You are, in fact the enemy.

    In a democracy that follows the Rule of Law we have to fight with one hand tied behind our backs, but because we are righteous we always have the upper hand.

    When we become that which we seek to destroy, we are no longer the United States of America and the shining hill on the city.

    Mark, you are not in any sense of the word a patriotic American.

  15. 20

    chadt spews:

    Roger, when we get in in 2008, can we fire the nutty fed judges, or are they more protected than fed attornies?

  16. 21

    GBS spews:

    @ 20
    Federal judges serve for life. That’s why it’s so critical we elect a Democrat in 2008 or you can bet Rudy, Mitt or McCain will pack more ultra-conservative, Constitutioanl hating judges in the federal courts.

    Technically, the congress can impeach judges, but that’s rare and would most likely fail.

  17. 22

    spews:

    Mark said:

    ‘Torture schmorture, I have ZERO sympathy with al Qaeda detainees. If the CIA wants to go to work on them in the most brutal and unimagineable ways, then by all means go ahead! The only regret I have is that I can’t be there to watch. Thrown naked into 60 below zero freezers, bamboo under the fingernails, pliers and blow torches to various body parts…..the possibilities are endless! (emphasis added)

    Obviously, we have no common ground for discussion. Americans, starting with our founding fathers, saw torture as being something inheirantly immoral. Better to be killed than to become what we abhor. I concur with their wisdom.

    The position you are taking is not only unAmerican, it is also condemned by every major religion.

    Worse, it has been shown, time and time again, that torture is ineffective in obtaining useful information. So along with being immoral, it is also ineffective.

    The only thing torture appears to be “good” for is in appeasing those that have a desire for revenge, or for the “enjoyment” of those who have unhealthy appetites for inflicting pain and suffering on others. Sadly, such people do seem to exist.

  18. 23

    Mark spews:

    GBS says:

    Mark @ 3:

    Your thinking is a direct reflection of how far conservatives have drifted from the traditional American values given to us by our Founding Fathers.

    So by that logic – what you are saying is that the Founding Fathers would want us to let Iran go on and continue to kill American troops, supporting terrorism, and build a nuclear weapon?”

    A conservative using the word “LOGIC.”

    This is where Al Gore has it exactly right in his book The Assault on Reason.” What I said, Ass Hole, is that “War is the avenue of last resort. The Bush administration has not even scratched the surface of diplomatic pressure to bring a sensible conclusion to this problem.”

    Our Founding Fathers would rather we wield our power judiciously and only if absolutely necessary.

    As for your “Torture schmorture” comment you only reaffirmed my point that conservatives have abandoned traditional American values and principles. It was George Washington who laid down the tradition of treating our enemy humanely after they’ve been captured.

    Mark, you are not in any sense of the word a patriotic American.

    Well then I guess we should send the likes of Khalid Sheik Muhammed and Ramzi bin Al Shib to bed every night with a kiss on the forehead before they climb into their Sealy Posturepedic matress and down comforter.

    Your Patriotic American,

    Mark

  19. 24

    GBS spews:

    What’s most revealing about your comment, Mark, is the absolute avoidance on your part of any reasoned, principled and logical debate.

    Your comments are best used on the playground.

    It’s un-American people like you who spit in the face of every American who has died, been wounded or served our nation honorably in the traditions of our Founding Fathers.

    Conservatives: America’s enemy within.

  20. 25

    Richard Pope spews:

    This talk of invading Iran is just CRAZY! We cannot fight everyone we don’t like or who doesn’t like us. Yes, Shiite extremists who are sympathetic to Iran have killed hundreds of American soldiers in Iraq. On the other hand, Sunni extremists who are bitter enemies of Iran have killed thousands of American soldiers in Iraq. We are supposedly in Iraq to support the elected government, which happens to be sympathetic to Iran. The elected Iraqi government would be even more sympathetic to Iran, if our military forces were not there. Obviously, our support is also valuable to the Iraqi government, and they aren’t going to be too friendly to Iran, since we don’t really like Iran (to say the least).

    It seems like Bush and Cheney simply want to have war for war’s sake, or at least for the sake of some narrow self-interested agenda.

  21. 26

    Daddy Love spews:

    I don’t know about invading Iran, but at a minumum we should be bombing SOMETHING in Iran.

    Brilliant strategy, General.

    The Quds Force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps – the paramilitary wing of the Iranian military that specializes in things like kidnapping, bombings, assassinations, and other terrorist activities is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Americans. They are arming and training Shiite militias ans were behind the attack on a US military compound in Karbala that left 5 Americans dead.

    To quote, oh, someone who has actually looked into it…”A NEWSWEEK investigation shows that the evidence against the Quds Force is still questionable, and that some of the key Iraqi politicians Washington is relying on most, such as Kurdish leader Jalal Talabani, have had close relations with the Iranian group.”
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17...../newsweek/

    The claims that Iranians (Quds or not) were helping create EFPs were found to be sheer nonsense when dozens of homegrown Iraqi foundries were found to be making them.

    But let’s put it another way: The US military captured some people who, after aggresive interrogation (i.e. torture) confessed what their interogators wanted them to. In an entirely seperate raid, acting on information provided by a terrorist goup, the Mujahedin-e Khalq or MeK, computer records were seized which recorded attacks on US forces. On the say-so of the MeK, the US military decided these records were to provide justification for finance by the Quds Force. But no one is asking how the MeK knew those records would be there, or why anyone would be so stupid as to keep such records for such a covert operation, or even connecting the dots between this and previous MeK-provided computer evidence that turned out to be utterly made up.

    There is now evidence of the Lebanese Hezbollah doing the same things in Iraq, no doubt because Hezbollah is indebdted to Iran for the years or financial and military support in Lebanon.

    Wouldn’t that be something if you could substantiate such a claim. And it was actually the Hezbollah guy, and not Quds, who was allegedly in on the Krballa attack. Yeah, on Hezbollah officer was captured in Iraq. He was an expert in car bombs, because God knows Iraqis know nothing about car bombs.

    You think you’d be less concerned about one guy trying to teach Iraqis what they already know, and more concerned about how “truck drivers interviewed by The Associated Press described carrying boxes of cash from Saudi Arabia into Iraq, money they said was headed for insurgents.” You know, how Saudi Arabia has sent at least $25 million to arm Sunni insurgents with Romanian-obtained weapons. I mean, WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK WE’RE ACTUALLY FIGHTING THERE?

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/w.....nnis_x.htm

    Add in Iran’s nuclear program that cannot be allowed to exist and you have a justifiable case for military action against Iran.

    Iran’s nuclear program, as documented by the IAEA, is capable only, and just barely, of supplying fuel for nuclear power. They are years and years away from the possbility of creating weapons-grade nuclear fuel, if they could even create a weapon from it. There is absolutely reason to be concerned, but none to panic, Mr. Weak Sister.

    That’s why Republicans can’t be trusted with national security, besides their clearly demonstrated carelessness with classifgied materials and blatant disregard of handling regulations. But also, they’re big fraidy-cats who want to go off half-cocked and tie up the American military in useless and treasury-draining wars instead of standing strong with our brother and sister nations to create a sustainable international framework of cooperation and mutual deterrence.

    Or is this just yet another “Bush lie”?

    What isn’t these days?

  22. 27

    RD spews:

    Mark’s comments here indicate the futility of engaging most conservatives (at least the types that come here to spew their Limbaugh/Hannity/Weiner-Savage-derived drivel) in any kind of intellectual dialogue: they simply present themselves as incapable of considering alternative interpretations or points of view. This is unfortunate, insofar as such consideration is a prerequisite of actual understanding, which presupposes the ability to acquire skills and (factual and/or theoretical) knowledge and to be able to adapt such to foreign situations. Most so-called “conservatives” here strike me as intellectually lazy, grossly (and willfully) ignorant, and extraordinarily fearful, if not outright cowardly.

    The psychological literature on these personality “aspects” (I would rather call them “defects”) is quite extensive, spanning some 5 decades, and seems to fairly clearly indicate that conservatives adopt their political orientation out of an apparent deep-seated need to manage fear and uncertainty. Jost, et al. (2003) summarized these aspects clearly and concisely:

    Variables significantly associated with conservatism, we now know, include fear and aggression, dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity, uncertainty avoidance, need for cognitive closure, personal need for structure, terror management, group-based dominance, and system justification. From our perspective, these psychological factors are capable of contributing to the adoption of conservative ideological contents, either independently or in combination. (Citations removed.)

    Although it would be highly informative, I wouldn’t expect any of the right-wingers on this board to go and examine any of this literature, as it might lead to an existential crisis of sorts. (Indeed, the only right-wing critiques I have seen of the article quoted above attack it on little more than an ad hominem basis, as the research was apparenty carried out with public funding.) For the rest of us in the reality-based community, we at least have a useful checklist for quickly assessing the psychological origins of most right-wing arguments.

  23. 28

    Daddy Love spews:

    I should point out that the Hezbollah “operative” who was captured in Iraq DID point the finger at Quds for the Karballa attack, but of course, we weren’t torturing him when he claimed that, were we?

  24. 29

    Daddy Love spews:

    Hey, if Iran asnd the southern Shia are behind the bad attacks on American soldiers, why are we wasting all our time with a “surge” in the Baghdad area?

  25. 31

    Yer Killin Me spews:

    Mark is a troll. He only comes over here to spout rubbish in order to get a reaction from the rest of us. He has no interest in debate, no interest in common ground, no interest in anything but stirring up the hornet’s nest. Attempting to converse with him as if he were an actual, rational human being is therefore impossible. I could write a computer program that can spout RNC talking points as well as he can, and arguing with it would be about as effective.

    Whether he really believes the stuff he posts is another matter altogether. As I’ve said many times before, anyone who supports the Bush Cheney regime has no right to call themselves a patriot. They are the Tories.

  26. 32

    Right Stuff spews:

    Hey John @ 18

    “We were told, directly, by high ranking members of the Bush administration that it was “beyond question” that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

    You are correct about this, but also please include the Clinton Administation, Israel, England,France, Russia, etc,etc,etc.

    The intel was bad. No doubt but not the sole responsibility of this admin.

  27. 34

    GBS spews:

    Daddy Love:

    You make a good point regarding the torture possibility.

    Consider this; when we we’re fully engaged in Vietnam, we know for a fact that China and the USSR were fully arming the North.

    According to conservative logic, thinking, no make that knee jerk reaction to whatever their cult leaders told them to believe, we should’ve invaded China and the USSR simultaneously.

  28. 35

    GBS spews:

    RS @ 32:

    You’re missing the greater picture here. Unbeknownst to conservatives we live in the Information Age.

    North Korea has gained the knowledge in how to make a nuclear bomb detonate. It’s not a simple as detonating a conventional bomb.

    They may be shutting down the reactors, but they’ll always have the information and they can use that against us.

    Score one for the Clinton administration which prevented them from acquiring the technology.

    Take one away from the Bush administration that let them gain it.

    And a half point to the Bush administration for negotiating UN IEAE inspections and oversight.

  29. 36

    RightEqualsStupid spews:

    This exchange between me and Proud Leftist is so good, I am going to post it in every thread on HA from now on. It destroys the Publicans’ stupid talking points – period.

    “I’m working really hard to understand how President Bill Clinton’s actions act as justifcation for the righties. Read this fuckwads.

    If your lame ass argument is that Bill Clinton was a bad President – which is what you say – and if your argument now is that the AWOL coward GW Bush is in someway comparable to Bill Clinton, what you are actually saying is that GW Bush is NO BETTER THAN CLINTON.

    Does it hurt to be that stupid? I really want to know.

    proud leftist says:
    RES @ 18
    You’ve hit it on the nose. The rightwing fringefucks consider Clinton to be the personification of evil–indeed, he is the devil incarnate in their twisted little minds. Nonetheless, their justification for all of the Bushites’ sins is, always, “well, Clinton did it, too.” Methinks they never studied logic.”

  30. 37

    GBS spews:

    @ 35:

    I never get tired of reading that post!!!

    Makes me laugh at the right’s stupidity each and every time.

  31. 38

    RD spews:

    @8

    If you are going to compare the Bush Administration, whatever you may think of it, to the mullah regime in Iran led my the Hitler of our time, Ahmadinijad – then that says all I need to know about YOU. You have ZERO common sense or sense of perspective. It is 100% intolerable for Iran to possess a nuclear weapon under any circumstances. Or is Ahmadinijad just a puppet of the “neo cons” when he says Israel will be “wiped off the map” in order to justify military action?

    Okay Mark, let’s be clear here: Ahmedinejad is not and cannot be the “Hitler of our time”. He doesn’t hold real power, as his executive branch is wholly subordinate to the Supreme Leader, who holds the real power in Iran. It occurs to me that Hitler was subordinate to nobody, thus the analogy fails.

    I will, however, compare the neo-cons in and behind the Bush administration — many of them waist deep in blood from at least the time of Reagan — to other crazed sociopaths heading foreign governments past and present. One could profitably ask oneself what the essential difference is between the barbarities of Bokassa, Amin, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, Bush, etc. Aside from matters of scale and means of execution, these individuals are collectively responsible for acts of unspeakable cruelty, millions of deaths, and vast oceans of blood. (Incidentally, we do know that Bush’s psychological profile is consistent with that of a sociopath, and also shows signs of being both a dry drunk and suffering with marked learning disabilities – probably dyslexia – since childhood.)

    Personally, I would like to see the United States stand for something other than death, destruction, and corporate-driven fascist imperialism. The original principles as enumerated in the Declaration of Independence (i.e. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness) still seem good enough to me. But, “terrorism” is the boogie-man in the room: terrorists are apparently real, and are an extremely useful ploy to divert a cowed public’s attention away from the destruction of those original principles. (Incidentally, meaningful intellectual discussion about the genesis of terrorism or who controls such organizations, e.g. the concept of false-flag operations or black ops, really is apparently too taboo for open discussion in this country. See “cowed public” and “diversion of attention”, above.)

    Furthermore, Ahmedinejad (a.k.a. the neo-cons’ favorite whipping boy) never actually said that Israel should be “wiped off the map”. Just a tiny bit of independent research yields the original quote, its (historical) context, and its mistranslation. But, you won’t hear about any of that on Fox “News”, or from any of the right-wing blowhards — or, for that matter, from virtually anyone in the so-called “liberal” media.

    One question, though: assuming that Ahmedinejad actually wasn’t misquoted and asserted that Israel should literally be wiped off the map, why is the US compelled to come to the Israeli’s defense? Cui bono?

    I agree – the Iraq war was a mistake and a disaster, but that doesn’t change the facts about Iran and the threat they pose to the civilized world.

  32. 39

    Daddy Love spews:

    33

    In the meantime N. Korea, under UN and IAEA supervision, is dimantling their nuclear reactors….

    Yes, we made them virtually the same deal as Clinton’s 1994 Agreed Framework, minus the light-water reactors, and they are dismantling their plutonium processing (again), except that (in contrast to 1994) now they have sufficient plutonium for several, or even a dozen, bombs.

    Hooway for the big stwong Pwesident!

  33. 40

    GBS spews:

    GOP defections on Iraq: Who’s next?
    Voter pressure building against lawmakers standing with Bush on the war

    “WASHINGTON – After the recent defection of prominent Republicans on the Iraq war, the big question in Washington is who might be next.

    More than a dozen Republican senators who are running for re-election next year head the list of lawmakers to watch. But others, too, have expressed concerns that the GOP has grown increasingly vulnerable on the issue. As the clock ticks toward Election Day, voter pressure is building against any lawmaker still standing with President Bush on the war.”

    GBS commentary: Why would the Republicans all of a sudden abandon their “principled” stance supporting George W. Bush who is fighting terrorist “over there so we don’t have to fight them here” are quickly becoming “cut-n-run” pussies?
    Answer: They were on the wrong side of history all along and the Democrats, like John Murtha, were right. Now that their backs are against the wall and time is running out on their ability to get re-elected they are changing their allegiance.

    Unfortunately for brave, patriotic soldiers like Pat Tillman and Casey Sheehan the realization by the Republicans that they are supporting a failed Commander-In-Chief came too late for them. Perhaps if the Republicans would have honored their oath of office to the Constitution instead of their blind allegiance Ronald Reagan’s 11th Commandment “Thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow Republican” thousands more like them wouldn’t have had to die for Bush’s lies and arrogance.

  34. 41

    YOS LIB BRO spews:

    A LOVE MESSAGE FROM OUR OLD FRIEND PUDDYBUD FROM OVER AT (UN)SP):

    The Head Voice of Equine Rear Ends Wiping has banned me because I found too many holes in their insipid arguments.

    THERE’S A 99.99999% PERCENT CHANCE THAT THIS IS YET ANOTHER LIE FROM PB (REMEMBER MWS?).

    I’M GUESSING HE WAS BANNED BECAUSE HE WAS IMPERSONATING OTHER PEOPLE.

    OR WHO KNOWS MAYBE HE’S LYING ABOUT BEING BANNED. WOULDN’T SURPRISE ME IN THE LEAST.

    WHAT A LOSER!

  35. 42

    Yer Killin Me spews:

    Mwahahahahahaaaaaaaaa . . . ol’ Pud the Dud just can’t help himself, can he?

    You know what? It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s just using a browser that’s been having trouble with Goldy’s implementation of WordPress (much like mine), and used that as an excuse to whine that he’s been banned.

  36. 43

    Yer Killin Me spews:

    Now back to the subject of this thread. Remember that far back?

    Here’s a link to a petition calling for the impeachment of Darth Cheney. Such petitions are good at gauging public interest, but much better is to actually contact congressional lawmakers and tell them you want action on HR 333 (the bill to impeach Cheney).

    Calling our own Jim McDermott (assuming you live in the 7th LD) and thanking him for becoming a cosponsor of the bill would be a nice gesture, but the people who really need to hear from us now are (1) your own representative, if they aren’t yet a co-sponsor, and (2) the members of the House Judiciary Committee. Luckily I happen to have a list of fax numbers:

    Hon John Conyers, Jr. (D, MI-14th) +1-202-225-0072
    Hon Howard L. Berman (D, CA-28th) +1-202-225-3196
    Hon Rick Boucher (D, VA-9th) +1-202-225-0442
    Hon Jerrold Nadler (D, NY-8) +1-202-225-6923
    Hon Robert C. Scott (D, VA-3rd) +1-202-225-8354
    Hon Mel Watt (D, NC-12th) +1-202-225-1512
    Hon Zoe Lofgren (D, CA-16th) +1-202-225-3336
    Hon Sheila Jackson-Lee (D, TX-18th) +1-202-225-3317
    Hon Maxine Waters (D, CA-35th) +1-202-225-7854
    Hon Bill Delahunt (D, MA-10th) +1-202-225-5658
    Hon Robert Wexler (D, FL-19th) +1-202-225-5974
    Hon Linda Sánchez (D, CA-39th) +1-202-225-5859
    Hon Steve T. Cohen (D, TN-9th) +1-202-225-5663
    Hon Hank Johnson (D, GA-4th) +1-202-226-0691
    Hon Luis Gutierrez (D, IL-4th) +1-202-225-7810
    Hon Brad Sherman (D, CA- 27) +1-202-225-5879
    Hon Anthony Weiner (D, NY-9th) +1-202-226-7243
    Hon Adam Schiff (D, CA-29th) +1-202-225-5828
    Hon Artur Davis (D, AL-7th) +1-202-226-9567
    Hon Debbie Wasserman-Schultz (D, FL-20th) +1-202-225-8456
    Hon Keith Ellison (D, MN-5th) +1-202-225-4886
    Hon Tammy Baldwin (D, WI-2nd) +1-202-225-6942

    Ellison is already a cosponsor, as is Baldwin, I think. In any case let them know you support HR 333 and that they should send it to the floor for a vote by the full House.

  37. 44

    spews:

    Ellison is already a cosponsor, as is Baldwin, I think. In any case let them know you support HR 333 and that they should send it to the floor for a vote by the full House.

    Nope, not Baldwin (yet … Tammy’s a strong progressive, and she’ll come around soon).

    Maxine Waters and Hank Johnson have joined Ellison as co-sponsors who serve on the Judiciary Committee. Here’s the list of co-sponsors on THOMAS, which hasn’t yet been updated to include McDermott and others who’ve announced support since Congress left for the July 4 holiday.

  38. 45

    Right Stuff spews:

    “Yes, we made them virtually the same deal as Clinton’s 1994 Agreed Framework, minus the light-water reactors, and they are dismantling their plutonium processing (again), except that (in contrast to 1994) now they have sufficient plutonium for several, or even a dozen, bombs.

    Well minus the nuclear reactor is no big deal right? Fuel, food aid, release of frozen funds….no new nuclear reactor..by the way, the current process includes 4 other nations working together to implement and make sure all parties are living up to their end of the bargain. That is far different than Pres Clinton, who I believe had good intentions, but made promises and wrote checks he couldn’t cash. N Korea broke their agreement and had a uranium enrichment program ongoing throughout the process and attempted implementation of the “agreed framework”.
    So who failed? N. Korea for one. The UN for another.
    I also think that this approach with multiple nations with vital interests in N Korea is the best approach. Not bilateral.

  39. 46

    Don Joe spews:

    First, for Mark, wonder on over to the TPM Cafe book club, and read through the articles posted there. Hell, read through the comments as well. Acquire a bit more background, please, because your ignorance is showing worse than Grandma’s slip.

    Second, regarding PuddyBud’s claim of having been banned, the comment where he claims to have been banned can be found at this post, and was submitted at 9:31 AM on July 4th. He posted this comment here on HA at 8:49 AM on July 4th.

    Lastly, did anyone check out the poll I linked to at #1?

  40. 48

    proud leftist spews:

    If we believe at all in the notion of accountability, Dick Cheney deserves to be impeached. I’m not sure what the political repercussions of trying to impeach him would be–going after him might very well be harmful for Democrats because those who don’t pay attention might see such action as nothing but vindictiveness. Nonetheless, impeaching him is simply the right thing to do. Cheney cares only for power. He lacks any notion of a human community. He is a criminal on an international scale. I can’t believe the fucker is a flyfisherman. Flyfishing usually is attractive only to people who are actually capable of emotions other than anger.

  41. 49

    Yer Killin Me spews:

    I just found a great quote I thought I’d share with the group:

    Democrats care about the Republic. Republicans care about Republicans.

  42. 51

    makesenseofit spews:

    You mean Big Dick … the one who lives in a bomb shelter.
    And the one who purchased a house in Maryland with a no fly zone over head.

  43. 53

    ME spews:

    HEY ALL YOU LIBALLS I WANT TO THANK BILL CLINTONFOR INTROUCING US TO JENNIFER FLOWERS.PAULA JONES.MONICA LEWINSKY.DOLLY KYLE BROWNING.KATHLEEN WILLEY.AND JUANITA BRODREICK.DID I LEAVE ANYONE OUT

  44. 55

    Harry Tuttle spews:

    I gather, from the righties, that GWB is no better than Bill Clinton. Clearly then Bush should be impeached.