With our good friend Stefan continuing to pound the anti-vote-by-mail meme, I thought it might be time to clarify the issue with a little visual aid. Following is a map of King County from the September, 2005 primary election, showing the percentage of votes cast at the polls, versus those cast by mail, broken down by council district:
The small text is fuzzy, but a couple of patterns quickly emerge. First, it is clearly apparent that vote-by-mail has proven to be overwhelmingly popular countywide, with between 75 and 86 percent of voters choosing that option, depending on the district. Second, vote-by-mail has proven most popular in the more rural districts that comprise the heart of the county’s Republican base.
What Stefan and other vote-by-mail critics would like to do is cast the current debate as a contest between vote-by-mail and traditional polling places… but that is a battle the marketplace has already settled. Thus, the decision before the King County Council is not whether to choose one or the other; it’s whether to consolidate elections operations by largely eliminating the option that an increasingly tiny percentage of voters choose to use.
Stefan would like to eliminate vote-by-mail entirely, except for legitimate absentees, but that is a politically unfeasible option that simply is not on the table. Every election is in a sense a referendum on vote-by-mail, and it is hard to imagine the Council ignoring the clear sentiments of 85 percent of their constituents.
For better or worse, vote-by-mail is here to stay. The decision before the Council is not whether to expand it — that’s happening organically — the decision is whether to continue to bear the cost and complexity of maintaining polling places that most voters no longer use.
And with all the posturing from Stefan and his cohorts that this is all part of some Democratic conspiracy to maintain an unfair electoral advantage, I point back to the map to show that if any party is reaping turnout benefits from vote-by-mail, it’s the GOP.
So by all means, debate the issue fully, for any discussion of potential security concerns can only help to make the final implementation more robust and secure. But lets be honest about the decision before the Council.
Goldy, you’re giving Stefan far too much benefit of the doubt. He doesn’t like mail-in ballots because he wants to roll in the Diebold pretend-election machines.
goldy,
you arent fooling us. Its a partisan issue; you want mail voting cuz it is good for the Dems. We oppose it cuz DeanRon never accounted properly for the ballots, and thus we suspect intentional sloppiness that helps your side.
Wierdly, i think many of us could be convinced that mail in is an ok way to go …
Fire dean, investigate, then I think the merits of mail in would not be clouded by dean and ron.
The Senate immigration reform bill would allow for up to 193 million new legal immigrants — a number greater than 60 percent of the current U.S. population — in the next 20 years, according to a study released yesterday. ‘The magnitude of changes that are entailed in this bill — and are largely unknown — rival the impact of the creation of Social Security or the creation of the Medicare program,’ said Robert Rector. [………………..It’s over. USA: Baja Norte]
Gee, you would think that those who want integrity in the voting process would like mail-in ballots. They provide a pretty complete audit trail, including a physical ballot with a return envelope that can be inspected and signature-verified.
Or maybe that’s why they don’t like it. Steven and his group prefer to find isolated instances of errors, then allege it is a massive Democratic conspiracy to steal an election. Computer voting machines allow him to continue those charges, as there is little audit trail to prove otherwise.
I don’t think they really want to get Dean Logan out of office. He’s there favorite wipping boy they use to raise funds, both here and nationally. If he were out of office and one of their own was in charge, then they would find they would have at least as many problems, probably much more. Logan leaving would be the last thing they really want. They just want to complain.
Besides, they want an excuse for why they will lose the next election. (“Them dirty Democrats stole it from us!!! Whaaaa!!!! Whaaaa!!!!”).
Oops. “There” should be “their”. If you take the time to proofread your post, you are too late, and you lose it.
Stefan is afraid that every legal vote will count. He knows that the people/party he supports loses in the long run in that situation.
Accountability takes a back seat to getting “my guy” elected!
By the way, in R-leading places, mail in ballots are just fine.
It’s here that the Rs get their stuff in a twist….all legal votes count is bad news for them!
TT hit it on the head. If you live in in Simi Valley, CA, which votes 90% republican, then you don’t mind vote by mail. It’s only in cases where the GOP might lose that they don’t want vote by mail. Heck, they don’t want voting at all. The GOP has to work to stop people from voting because even they admit there are more Dems than Rs. So it’s simple math. If everyone votes, then the Rs lose every time. The only way to make sure that doesn’t happen is to make it as hard as they can to vote period.
In accord with your new mission as political calendar keeper: there is a fund raiser for Democracy for America at our house on Friday evening from 6:30 to 8 pm. Jim Dean, exceutive director will be here. Our address is 2809 96th Avenue NE Clyde Hill, WA
My husband & I have pretty good voting records. Not 100%, but >80%, I bet. Several years ago, there was an emergency at work on an election day and my husband had to work overtime and missed voting. (He started work at 6AM in those days, and so he couldn’t vote before work.) It wasn’t one of the big, important elections, or he would have refused the overtime. But still, we both went to absentee ballots after that so this wouldn’t happen again. If you limited absentee ballots to those who were really out of town, he’d be back in the same situation he was in before. That doesn’t seem very fair.
I have been here working for so many years that I can dice as bueno as the next senor and no one can detecto an accente! Now I want to organize unions so el Presidente de Norteamericanos cannot import millions of indentured ( guest workers ) servants from my country to work in impoverished conditions for eternity.
NAFTA has to go , or, you will be working side by side with me.
Maybe we should go to Venezuela instead?
GOLDY—
NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!NO SOUP FOR YOU!!
Post number 12 is evidence of the massive brain power behind the GOP political machine. I guess Dems will win by more than I realized.
Stefan’s last erection was when he tried to intimidate voters at the polling place he was working, so it’s little wonder he’s against mail in ballots. It’s been many moons since the eagle has flown for our friend.
Hey, watch Richard Pope’s head explode when he looks at this map!
Looks like the vote-by-mail percentages are a little inflated in the 3rd council district. There are three registrations that belong to two California residents at the Pony Express Mail & Business Centers, 16541 NE Redmond Way, Redmond.
Brian Garman and Trudy Garman live in a house they own at 597 Wild Oak Drive, Santa Rosa, CA 95409. They also operate a home based business, “War Stories, LLC”, at that address, which has a website of warstoriesimmortalized.com You can even call them at 707-538-1287 and ask them why they like to vote twice as often as the most politically active law-abiding citizens do.
In any event, Brian Garman (DOB: 10/25/1943) registered in King County on May 1, 1992 and presently maintains one King County registration at 16541 NE Redmond Way, Redmond. Brian actively votes in King County, including November 2004 and November 2005.
Brian Garman is also a registered DEMOCRAT in Sonoma County, California at 597 Wild Oak Drive, Santa Rosa. Brian registered down there in October 2002 and is an active voter. He voted in November 2004 and November 2005 (and various other dates) in Sonoma County, and last voted in April 2006.
Trudy Garman goes by several other variations of her name. Her maiden name is Wiseblood, and Trudy is apparently a contraction of Gertrude. Trudy is not registered in Sonoma County, California under any variation of the names that she has normally gone by.
However, Trudy appears to be registered and voting twice in Washington at 16541 NE Redmond Way, Redmond.
“Trudy Garman” (DOB: 08/14/1935) registered to vote in King County on May 1, 1992. The mailing address for her ballot is 597 Wild Oak Drive, Santa Rosa. “Trudy Garman” voted in King County in November 2004 and November 2005 (and various other elections).
“Trudy Wiseblood” (DOB: 08/14/1939) registered to vote in King County on July 22, 1992. The mailing address for her ballot is 122 Calistoga Road, # 184, Santa Rosa, CA 95409 — which is a UPS Store 3.7 miles from the Garman residence in Santa Rosa. “Trudy Wiseblood” voted in King County in November 2004 and November 2005 (and various other elections).
GORDITOS DE LOS ALBERTO, The Senate immigration reform bill would allow for up to 193 million new legal immigrants – a number greater than 60 percent of the current U.S. population – in the next 20 years, according to a study released yesterday. ‘The magnitude of changes that are entailed in this bill – and are largely unknown – rival the impact of the creation of Social Security or the creation of the Medicare program,’ said Robert Rector. [………………..It’s over. USA: Baja Norte Thanks to the libs, the Mexicans have invaded and the Democrat Socialist “Progressives” have turned the USA into a Latin third world Democrat shit hole.]
When you’re losing an argument, try to muddy it up with boring, useless, meaningless facts. Republican playbook, page two – right after page one which just says:
Blame Clinton
Another GOP scandal…
31. Niger Forgeries: Whodunit?
The scandal: In his January 2003 State of the Union address, Bush said, “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.”
The problem: The statement was untrue. By March 2003, the International Atomic Energy Agency showed the claim, that Iraq sought materials from Niger, was based on easily discernible forgeries.
The outcome: The identity of the forger(s) remains under wraps. Journalist Josh Marshall has implied the FBI is oddly uninterested in interviewing Rocco Martino, the former Italian intelligence agent who apparently first shopped the documents in intelligence and journalistic circles and would presumably be able to shed light on their origin.
Hey! Ricardo Pope! Is your name pronounced : Pope, Popay, or Poop?
I’m just trying to learn.
GORDITOS DE LOS ALBERTO, Into the Border Patrol van! NOW!!!!
re 17: Except for the fact that Republicans have controlled the country since 1994. Hanet Esse taught me about facts and logics. Wouldn’t the fact that Republicans have been in control for over a decade lead to the logical conclusion that Republicans are actually responsible for this poophole problem that the US has become?
Hanet Esse is a wonderful teacher! I have read many of her posts and have also learned the value of taking “personal responsibility”. It is a fact that you have been in control for over a decade, yet you are failing to take Hanet Esse’s advice to take personal responsibility.
This does not pass the factual and logical standard that Hanet Esse taught me.
I learn fast, no?
RE: #12…Sounds like Mr. C forgot to take his meds this morning.
When you’re losing an argument, try to muddy it up with boring, useless, meaningless facts. Republican playbook, page two – right after page one which just says:
Blame Clinton
Commentby LeftTurn— 5/16/06@ 12:37 pm
LeftTurn I’m not losing an argument, try making a contribution to the Socialist Democrat Party so they can get new people to stuff the ballot box in King County. With all the new illegals from Yakama and those entire new voters being dump on the street by November the Party can reelect any Democrat.
Dear Klake,
I just wanted to say “Thank You.” Thanks to all of you who have gotten involved in this election by contributing the funds we need to fight back with hard-hitting ads — like the latest one running in Francine Busby’s race right now.
Please take a minute and watch the kinds of ads your contributions allow us to produce in our DCCC Media Center on our Web site at: http://www.dccc.org/r/11796/1229024
with your contributions, we have been able to fight back on the airwaves earlier than ever before and create an unprecedented grassroots campaign plan that we are already implementing.
Also, thanks to activists like you, we have been able to demonstrate how the GOP Rubber Stamp Congress is hurting American families through our GOP Auction House photo essay project. Make sure you visit our new site and check out the sampling of the photos already up: http://www.dccc.org/r/11798/1229024
as we saw last week, even the Republicans are seeing the writing on the wall and know that we have the momentum. This election is going to be difficult. The Republicans are entrenched and they’ll be up to all their old tricks — like in 2002 when the Texas Republicans re-drew the congressional districts to protect themselves.
This year we have the best chance in a decade to stake out a Democratic Majority in the House — with your help, we’ll take the fight to the Republicans every day.
I cannot thank you enough. Every day it is a race for resources against the Republicans, and when I hear that our supporters online have come through for us yet again, I almost can’t believe it sometimes.
We can’t do it without you.
Sincerely,
Karin Johanson
Executive Director, DCCC
klake is off the meds again.
Is there supposed to be a link to a map? Or a picture of a map? I’m not seeing anything, which is sad because I like maps. Or is my computer just whacko?
It is to bad the Democratic Party is not supporting real Democrats. The country would be in better shape and something might grt done right.
COME ATLAS! Come. Come. Come. YOU ARE The [JCH]LOOOOOOoooRD! You have grasped the STEM and raised the HOLY SHAFT of RIGHTEOUSNESS!!!
OH, MY! OH, MY! OOOOOOH MY gawwwwwwwwwd!!! You are one HUMPA HUMPA flagellante DINGY DONG AROOOOO!!!!!!!
SHRUG,
SHRUGGAH
SHRUGGAH
SHRUG.
You are one wicked bitch [JCH]
I will be jailed soon. Weep for me my Atlas, and (always) send money.
Ayyyyyyyyy Caramba!!!! Tommy Two Toes!!!! You are more twisted than a ten foot length of red-rope licorish!!! Senor dos Toes: You must seek the help of the cabeza doctoros immediamente — if not sooner!!
GOOD WORK GOLDY – SEND THE PIECE TO THE PI AND TIMES AS A COMMENTARY.
NICE. EXACTLY ON POINT.
I KNOW NOT A SINGLE PERSON WHO GOES TO THE POLLS. WE ALL VOTE ABSENTEE SO WE CAN WORK CAMPAIGNS ON ELECTION DAY…… CALLED GET OUT THE VOTE…..HUZZA HUZZA.
Mollohan, Jefferson Cases Hamper Democrats’ Attacks Over Ethics
May 16 (Bloomberg) — House Democrats’ efforts to capitalize on what they call a Republican-created “culture of corruption” in Washington are being complicated by ethical allegations against two of their own members.
Representative Alan Mollohan of West Virginia, until April the ranking Democrat on the House ethics committee, said yesterday he’s reviewing his financial disclosures after being accused of misstating personal assets. Fellow Democrat William Jefferson of Louisiana vowed to stay in office and fight allegations that he accepted bribes.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....;refer=us#
RICHARD@31 THESE MUST BE MISTAKES.DEMOCRATS WOULD NOT BE INVOLED WITH THIS CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR.JUST WAIT THESE LEFT WING NUTS WILL BE ALL OVER YOU OR MORE THAN LIKLEY THEY WILL JUST BE SILENT.
The reason the “deliverance wing” of the republican party wants to ban vote-by-mail is because they know that when the voter turn out is supressed they have a better chance of winning. It’s always been their strategy.
At first I was resistant to the idea of vote-by-mail, I always felt voting should be done at the booth on election day (except in abesentee cases). But what finally made me realize that vote by mail was a good idea, is when republicans said it was a bad idea.
Then I knew for sure that if I didn’t vote-by-mail I’d be going against my own best interest and that of our nation.
Ron Sims, please count my voteS 10-15 times each.
YEAHHHH BABY, YEAH!!!!
More GOP Scandal…
32. In Plame Sight
The scandal: In July 2003, administration officials disclosed the identity of Valerie Plame, a CIA operative working on counterterrorism efforts, to multiple journalists, and columnist Robert Novak made Plame’s identity public. Plame’s husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, had just written a New York Times opinion piece stating he had investigated the Niger uranium-production allegations, at the CIA’s behest, and reported them to be untrue, before Bush’s 2003 State of the Union address.
The problem: Under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act it is illegal to disclose, knowingly, the name of an undercover agent.
The outcome: Unresolved. The Justice Department appointed special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald to the case in December 2003. While this might seem a simple matter, Fitzgerald could be unable to prove the leakers knew Plame was a covert agent.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....e252.shtml
http://cascade.sierraclub.org/node/306
David
We endorsed the right folks in 1994 (Ron Sims) 2000 and 2004
Why don’t you come to our meeting Wednesday, May 24th, 7:00 pm – 9:00 pm?
Even Richard Pope is welcome, as long as he does not prohibit me clear cutting
Goldy,
Do you support the right of Democrats Brian Garman and Trudy Wiseblood Garman to vote multiple times from Washington mailboxes, even though they live in California and own property down there?
What chance does former Microsoft executive Darcy Burner stand of unseating Dave Reichert, if she cannot count on at least three votes from California residents (and Redmond mailbox voters) Brian Garman and Trudy Wiseblood Garman?
More GOP scandals…
33. Abu Ghraib
The scandal: American soldiers physically tortured prisoners in Iraq and kept undocumented “ghost detainees” in the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
The problem: The United States is party to the Geneva Conventions, which state that “No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever.”
The outcome: Unresolved. A Pentagon internal inquiry found a lack of oversight at Abu Ghraib, while independent inquiries have linked the events to the administration’s desire to use aggressive interrogation methods globally. Notoriously, Gonzales has advocated an approach which “renders obsolete Geneva’s strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions.” More recently, Gonzales issued qualified support for the Geneva Conventions in January 2005 Senate testimony after being nominated for attorney general. Army reservist Charles Graner was convicted in January 2005 for abusing prisoners, while a few other soldiers await trial.
Darcy Burner will win by at least 4 votes. So the other three won’t matter.
Say Buh-bye Reichert and a republican controlled congress.
And
Hello congressional investigations followed by impeachment and removal from office the worst president ever: George W. Bush.
@36: No. They are undoubtedly Republicans, Richard.
If you do not file a challenge, I can only assume you harbor the same suspicion.
Brian Garman is a registered DEMOCRAT in Sonoma County, California.
More GOP scandal…
34. Guantánamo Bay Torture?
The scandal: The U.S. military is also alleged to have abused prisoners at the U.S. Navy’s base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. FBI agents witnessing interrogations there have reported use of growling dogs to frighten prisoners and the chaining of prisoners in the fetal position while depriving them of food or water for extended periods.
The problem: More potential violations of the Geneva Conventions.
The outcome: An internal military investigation was launched in January 2005.
Why are so few posts on HA on topic???? It looks like HA people troll their own stuff.
re 31: Over the past year approximately 1,000 Republican lawmakers have been indicted for corruption. Looks to me like you got big problems in the GOP, Richard Pope, but what do you care about your own party’s indictable mendacity when you can find “allegations” against a few Democrats?
You are a sentence parsing, can’t see the forest for the trees NITWIT, Popester.
Richard et al… blah, blah, blah.
Again, the point you are avoiding is the fact that the decision facing the Council is not polling places versus vote-by-mail… it’s whether to eliminate most of the polling place and replace them with a handful of regional voting centers, thus consolidating the elections process.
Regardless of what they decide, the vast majority of voters will continue to cast their ballots by mail.
As to potential cases of registration fraud, that’s a red herring, and is not inherent to vote-by-mail. Nobody supports fraud; it could just as easily be used by the other side, so I assume we all want our elections to be as free, as fair and as accurate as possible.
Goldy @ 44
If the Democrats don’t support voter fraud, then why don’t they do anything about it?
The voter registrations of “Brian Garman”, “Trudy Garman”, and “Trudy Wiseblood” were all challenged for the November 2005 election. The King County Canvassing Board heard the evidence (with nothing in rebuttal being submitted by the two or three people in question being challenged) and made a decision to reject the challenge.
Dan Satterberg, appointee of Republican Norm Maleng, was the only member of the King County Canvassing Board voting to grant the challenge.
Democrat Dow Constantine and Dean Logan, appointee of Democrat Ron Sims, both voted to reject the challenge.
As a result of this DEMOCRAT decision, California resident Trudy Wiseblood Garman was allowed to improperly vote twice in King County for Ron Sims and other Democrats. Califoria resident (and registered DEMOCRAT) Brian Garman was allowed to improperly vote in King County for Ron Sims and other Democrats, in addition to voting in that same day’s election in Sonoma County, California.
The only documented fraudulent votes for Governor in Washington came from republicans. Case closed.
By the way if republicans don’t support treason and traitors Pope then why don’t they do something about Rove, Libby and Cheney?
@47 — Apparently you forgot to include Joe Wilson who was probably the first person to talk about his wife as being an undercover agent, long before she sent him to Africa. remember, Joe Wilson is the person whose report after he returned didn’t jibe with his editorial.
But you guys are off topic again.
Watching el prezadente last night, blah blah yadda yadda blah blah, I felt like a character on Mystery Science Theater 2000, forced to watch a B movie, twitching at his inanity, nearly nauseated, heckling. So, I turned off the volume and noticed Junior has large, pointy ears. Hmm. Then I noticed the backdrop flags. Anybody else notice their careful placement? Weird. The US flag on the left had its stripes pointing toward the schmuck. The smaller flag on the right had its stripes also pointing exactly at him, like he was comic book Captain Freedom or something. It’s all image with that shit-eating clown and no substance. He’ll screw up immigration reform like everything else.
Bob @ 48. Whoever told you that Joe Wilson revealed his wife’s NOC status was lying right to your face.
Perhaps they were thinking of Plame’s neighbor David Tillotson, who contradicted widespread reports from the right, telling the Washington Times that he “absolutely didn’t know” Plame worked for the CIA.
Or maybe you were talking about Maj. Gen. Paul Vallely, who told WorldNetDaily that Wilson mentioned Plame’s status as a CIA employee in the spring of 2002 in the Fox News Channel’s “green room” in Washington, D.C.
Unfortunately Wilson wasn’t on television in the spring of 2002, making the statement a lie. Care to try again?
Vallery Plame represented a valuable intelligence asset that was carelessly cast aside for political gain and the leak of her status is a treasonous offence.
I hate to continue to go off topic but I think the dismissal of lies should always be a priority.
Well Pope I guess the silence we hear can only be proof that republicans support traitors.
Hell, LeftTurn, if there is one thing Republicans can stand behind it is Treason.
They have no allegiance but to greed, hatred and bigotry. We will be well rid of them.
Vallery Plame represented a valuable intelligence asset that was carelessly cast aside for political gain and the leak of her status is a treasonous offence.
I hate to continue to go off topic but I think the dismissal of lies should always be a priority.
Comment by Lyndon the Roach — 5/16/06 @ 5:34 pm
What did you say your name was? Vallery Plame represented a valuable intelligence asset so what so are a lot of other people like Roger Rabbit.
Valerie Plame supposedly headed up a cover company that was covertly garnering information about Iran’s nuclear program. Seems pretty reasonable to surmise that this involved people working in-country. When she was exposed, so was the cover organization and everyone involved in it, some of whom may well now be dead or hanging by their genitalia in some Iranian hell hole.
It’s also possible that the whole sorry business killed two birds with one stone, not only discrediting Wilson but eliminating a possible source of information that might have been in conflict with whatever fantasies about Iran that the administration might prefer to regale us with.
Hello congressional investigations followed by impeachment and removal from office the worst president ever: George W. Bush.
Commentby GBS— 5/16/06@ 3:04 pm
Amen, Brother.
Amen.
Our Long National Nightmare may soon be over.
We just need to fix the budget, find some way of getting out of Iraq without starting World War III, make inroads on paying off the enormous debt to our decendents, regain the trust of the rest of the only world we have, begin an Apollo Project to stem the ongoing peak oil disaster, and hang some traitors.
Not easy stuff, but we are the USA. We can do it.
16.
Are you just practicing here, or have you already contacted Rob McKenna’s office?
If want something proof read, you should provide the complete document.
Not that partisanship should enter into the matter of rooting out voter fraud, but the relevant prosecutors in Washington are both Republicans.
You should have an in with them, Richard.
Goldy,
Quit trying to confuse Stefan with the facts.
Hey, I am someone who has had his right to vote stolen from him because my ballot arrived to late to vote. I do not trust King county or anyone else to get me a ballot on time, and no one has given me a reason to. I will not stand by and let it happen again. The booths are the only way.