Times endorses all-mail voting

I thought it worth pointing towards today’s Seattle Times editorial on all-mail voting, mostly because it’s conclusion echoes the main point in my previous post on the subject:

FOR all the political huffing and puffing about a plan to make elections in King County all-mail voting, the key thing to remember is that voters chose the new system.

A vote-by-mail system is inevitable. Elected officials are catching up with the public.

28 of WA’s 39 counties voted by mail this November, and 5 others are in the process of making the change. Perhaps King County is making the switch a little sooner than we had expected, but the timing is right for a number of reasons.

The recommendations from three outside reviews of KC elections all focused on the immediate need to consolidate operations into a single elections center. But it makes absolutely no sense to design and build a new multi-million dollar elections center to handle an elections system (polling place voting) that is destined to become obsolete in a few short years.

No doubt the move to all-mail voting will be a challenge. While less than 30 percent of KC voters cast ballots at the polls last month, that still represents more ballots than cast by any means in any other single county in the state. To put this in perspective, moving us remaining, stubborn polling place voters to mail-in ballots will be like adding all of Pierce County into the system.

If the county council approves the switch (and with Bob “Swing Vote” Ferguson on board, that seems a sure thing) it must also appropriate the funds necessary to do the job right. That includes building the consolidated elections center everybody agrees is absolutely necessary. Now.


  1. 3


    What liberal media are you talking about?

    Anything that’s not the Washington State Fascist News is “liberal media” to you. We’ve seen this strtaegy before. You and your misinformation. You’re dead wrong.

  2. 4

    prr spews:

    Let’s say we do go to an all mail election system, in the ory this would make things easier, therefore would cause less work.

    So, shouldn;t this cost the tax payers less money?

    Not in this state, stand by for increases…

    BTW we are still waitng for the latoffs of those mid level managers as part of the budget uts, as promised by christine gregoire…

  3. 7

    Voter Advocate spews:

    Ah, the knee-jerk rightie moan, the liberal (in this case Communist) media.

    The Times and the PI broke their necks and their reputations repeating, verbatim, every idiotic charge Chris Vance made and were made to look just as foolish when every court and every review proved them either wrong or unfair.

    Every unfounded rumor you nutcakes come up with has gallons of ink and gigapixels brodcast devoted to it, destined to wrap fish and entertain extra-terrestrials, since they don’t stand up to investigation.

    But you’re so unfairly treated, as all two-year-olds think they are.

  4. 8

    Goldy spews:

    prr @4,

    Yes, vote-by-mail will be less costly over the long run. But it will require an upfront investment in new facilities, equipment and software. That shouldn’t be so hard to understand.

  5. 9

    Voter Advocate spews:

    If the Legislature continues its glib avoidance of sensible changes in election law — requiring ballots to be received, not postmarked, by Election Day and allowing the primary to continue to be held in late September — the switch to all-mail balloting is the wise course.

    The primary date should be moved up, but the receipt by Election Day is unnecessary. Particularly if the state goes entirely to mail ballots, in which case what is being asked for is to move Election Day earlier in the month.

    Let the ballots be processed as they arrive to even out the workload, and let the Times wait a few days to announce the results.

    Announce the results when the votes get counted, not based on some magic date.

  6. 10

    prr spews:

    Goldy @ 8…

    Of course this will be based off the the recommendation fo ronny’s dream team, that also recommended getting rid of Dean Logan, if only in the short term, to restore confidence

    Surpise, surpise, Ronny decided to ignore that recommendation but go for all of the ones that enabled him to go after cash.

    New building, new computers (whatever happened to that fiasco goldy?), new software and certinly new employees.

    Bullshit it will be cheaper in the long run.

  7. 12

    prr spews:

    So Goldy, whatever happened to all those mid level managers being laid off from bullshit jobs?

    I’ve noticed you continually ignore this question.

  8. 13

    Voter Advocate spews:


    Of course this will be based off the the recommendation fo ronny’s dream team, that also recommended getting rid of Dean Logan…

    That was certainly news to me. I went to the Task Force report, and could find no such recommendation.

  9. 14

    Voter Advocate spews:

    In fact, the only statement in the report that comes even remotely near such a recommendation is on page 9, in the context of hiring and independent turnaround team.

    B. Establish accountability: Authority and responsibility for organizational change is given to the turnaround group, which is directly accountable to the King County Executive. If the assessment team finds recurring or unresolved problems, responsible managers or employees are reassigned or replaced…

    None of the recommenders include Chris Vance or the Republican Party, however, who have repeatedly called for Logan’s removal.

  10. 15

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    If the Seattle Times is a lefty newspaper, I’d hate to see your version of a righty newspaper.

  11. 16

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    1 (continued)

    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, you’re a Nazi. And did I say you’re a fascist? You’re a fascist. Fuck you!

  12. 17

    prr spews:

    SEATTLE – In a recommendation to King County Executive Ron Sims, a task force says a “turnaround team” of outside experts should take over management of the county’s elections division in the wake of its bungled 2004 election.

    The independent panel on Wednesday emphasized the urgency of taking that radical step to change the county’s “seriously flawed organizational culture.”

    It said the county should institute a vote-by-mail system with regional voting centers in 2006.

    In addition, it called on the Legislature to move the September primary election to early June, automatically restore voting rights to former felons upon release from prison and reduce to four from six the number of annual elections.

    The task force said it “most urgently recommends” that Sims place the elections department into a sort of receivership. It called on him to hire an outside organization with “expertise in organizational ‘turnarounds’ to lead the transition to a new agency culture, including making critical improvements in the elections system.”

    Sims immediately issued a statement that said: “While I haven’t had time to read the entire document, I enthusiastically embrace the idea of a turnaround team and will request the resources to make it happen.”

    But Sims was noncommittal about other recommendations of the panel, which he appointed after a plethora of 2004 problems, including lost ballots and votes cast in the names of dead people and by ex-felons who hadn’t had their rights restored.

    A spokeswoman for Sims said he was unavailable to elaborate, leaving unanswered the question of what role Dean Logan, his director of records, elections and licensing services, would have in a turnaround-team takeover of Logan’s division.

  13. 18

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    Well, I see that lying sack of shit “I’ll be there” prr is back. I thought maybe he was hiding behind a new screen name or something. Let’s straighten out two things here.

    1. It’s the Bush administration who wants the whole country to adopt expensive, hackable touch-screen voting machines. It’s the Republicans who wrote a requirement into HAVA for local jurisdictions to adopt this voting method. It’s greedy, sticky-fingered Republican businessmen who will lift dollars from your pocket into theirs for this junk. Don’t blame GOP corruption on Democrats or liberals, you lying sack of shit.

    2. Gregoire did eliminate 1,000 middle manager jobs from the state bureaucracy, you lying sack of shit.

  14. 19

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Hey righton — my last post is stuck in the filter — I don’t want to keep you in suspense — I called you a lying sack of shit, because you ARE a lying sack of shit.

  15. 21

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    These people have graduated from being professional party boys to being professional victims.

  16. 23

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    We can pretty much expect GOP whiners like prr to complain about spending a few bucks on improving elections, but they want to spend endless sums on weapons systems and their immoral wars of aggression. I see Bush wants another $100 billion for his Iraq sinkhole. That would pay for a lot of elections.

  17. 24

    Voter Advocate spews:


    Thank you for that irrelevant article that does not say that the Task Force called for either Logan’s demotion or replacement.

    Thanks for playing, though.

  18. 25

    Nindid spews:

    prr @17 – Perhaps I am reading this wrong, but what you linked does not say that the report called for Logan’s removal. It is merely speculation by the reporter that the process might effect Logan’s role…. enlighten me.

  19. 27

    Janet S spews:

    Voting by mail is inevitable. That doesn’t mean it is a good thing. But, we need to establish a system that is as tamper proof as possible. Currently, the only thing that validates an absentee ballot is a signature. Anyone out there remember what your signature looked like when you signed up? This seems like the major flaw in the system.

    I’d feel better with an on-line voting system that used on-line banking type of security. Somehow it should have some trace on it, and physical ballots should be printed out for all votes received.

    But, I doubt any of this will happen. WE will go forward by making the current absentee system the norm. If this is the case, can we at least get rid of the registrations of those who live in mail boxes and commercial buildings?

  20. 28

    sgmmac spews:

    Of course they endorse all-mail voting, the whole state has gone to all mail voting with the exception of a couple of counties. The Times isn’t doing any thing drastic here, they are doing their part to protect the status quo of King County. I do believe that they need their big new building, if for no other reason that to prove that having a building won’t fix the problems in KCRE without leadership. Dean Logan’s approval rating by his employees was in the low 50’s after the Nov 04 election. KCRE may have made improvement, but they did count many of the ballots that were challenged and upheld. Their continued messy record keeping may be their undoing in the future.

  21. 29

    sgmmac spews:

    Hi Roger,

    Christmas was fun, I got my daughter and my first grandchild home from the hospital on Christmas Day!

  22. 30

    Sven spews:

    We continue to replace one flawed system with another flawed system. Touch screens are flawed. no duh. So is absentee. So is any system, and any system can be rigged.

    Until the flaws are really addressed, we will continue to hear people complain.

    And none of this will matter anyway if they don’t fix the loopholes in the registratoin process.

    I will vote whatever way they give me, and just hope it counts. Best I can do, but living as I do in King County, my confidence level is fairly low.

  23. 31

    Voter Advocate spews:

    Well Roger, you invited them and they came — with more of their lies and rumors.

    From Janet:

    Anyone out there remember what your signature looked like when you signed up? This seems like the major flaw in the system.

    Another circular argument. I recall practicing my signature as a youth, I guess that’s because I’m a curmudgeion, but that is kinda the idea of a signature, to identify oneself.

    No matter if you don’t sign like you did on the registration form, a letter is sent asking for a new sample. If you are still living at the same address, you will respond, if you don’t you won’t.

    Now let’s hear the rattle about the new mailbox person using this as a way to get to vote improperly. Yeah right, it’s soooo hard to register to vote.

    You can challenge anybody you know to be using an improper address, or even a proper one, as long as you know where they do live. Do your civic duty and challenge all the junk voters you think you know so much about.

    From sgm

    but they did count many of the ballots that were challenged and upheld.

    They did? Which ballots that the canvassing board voted to be from an improperly registered voter were counted?

    Dean Logan’s approval rating by his employees was in the low 50’s after the Nov 04 election.

    Gosh, you guys are just a fount of new information. You should have told the Independent TaskForce on Elections who said on page 8 of their report:

    In addition, we find the REALS Director retains the confidence of Elections Section employees who believe he is an ethical leader with strong technical skills.

    Or Ron Sims, who said:

    “I was heartened to see that the department’s employees have confidence in Dean Logan. And the draft report from the task force investigation found he is respected by elections officials across the state and the nation. I believe Dean has the integrity and expertise to lead this organization as it goes through a painful but necessary transition. I’m committed to giving him the resources and support needed to get the job done.”

    Or the employees themselves, who gave Dean Logan an ovation on December 21, when a temporary employee praised him for the improvements in the processes he had championed. The same meeting in which they gave a chilly reception to the potential turnaround crew from Waldron Company.

    You really have to let all these people know that they don’t like Dean Logan. ;^P

    Their continued messy record keeping may be their undoing in the future.

    Pure slander. The recent general election went off very well.

  24. 32

    Voter Advocate spews:

    And none of this will matter anyway if they don’t fix the loopholes in the registratoin process.

    Ah yes, Sven, there really is a Republican majority in King County, it’s the registration process that causes anywhere from 55% to 75% to vote Democratic.

  25. 34

    Nindid spews:

    Sarge@ 28 – What do you mean Logan’s approval rating was below 50% with his employees? Did someone actually commission a poll?

    In any case, I am not sure how that really matters anyway. Perhaps heis making reforms that his people do not like. Who knows.

  26. 35

    Sven spews:


    Dont be absurd. I never claimed any such thing.

    But to stand here and say there are none is also patently absurd. There are loopholes, and I want the legislature to fix it.

    That’s my right as a voter.

  27. 36

    Voter Advocate spews:

    The loophole is that people, like Lori Sotelo, will swear under the penalty of perjury and lie.

    The solution isn’t more laws, it’s to get the County Prosecutor to do his job.

  28. 41

    Sven spews:


    The loophole is allowing the absurdity to exist that they live at a post box.

    How hard is it to enforce the rules?

  29. 42

    Voter Advocate spews:


    More circular arguments.

    WAC 434-208-100
    Registering to vote — Nontraditional address.

    No person registering to vote, who meets all the qualifications of a registered voter in the state of Washington, shall be disqualified because of a nontraditional physical address being used as a residence address. Nontraditional addresses may include shelters, parks or other identifiable locations which the voter deems to be his/her residence. Voters using such an address will be registered and precincted based on the location provided. Voters without a traditional address will be registered at the county courthouse, city hall or other public building near the area that the voter considers his/her residence. Registering at a nontraditional address will not disqualify a voter from requesting ongoing absentee voter status provided the voter designates a valid mailing address.

    So, in actuality, a homeless voter can be in a mailbox by state law. King County is actually requiring more of them than is required by the law, by demanding that they identify themselves as homeless.

  30. 43

    Sven spews:

    No No No. Read it again. They can use a mail box for the MAILING address, heck anyone can, but the physical address must be a public building in order to determine which precint they are assigned to.

    Voters without a traditional address will be registered at the county courthouse, city hall or other public building near the area that the voter considers his/her residence.he case of people who have homes, they MUST use their residence as their physical address for the same reason: To determine which precint they are assigned.

    Anyone using a mail box as their physical and their mailing address either has to live in the mailbox (or the building it is in) or they are violating the WAC.

  31. 44

    Sven spews:

    the messed up paragraph:

    In the case of people who have homes, they MUST use their residence as their physical address for the same reason: To determine which precint they are assigned.

  32. 45

    Voter Advocate spews:

    Ah no, the state only says that you must list your residence as, say, Alki Beach, 61st & Alki Blvd. with a POB. KC requires you to state “homeless”. In fact, if news reports can be believed, many of them have their precinct as the one the KC Administration building is located in.

    But, I guess it is possible that all them are Pioneer Square residents.

  33. 46

    Sven spews:

    I guess we can politely agree to disagree with the interpretation of the code here.

    I see no reason to hash it deeper.


  34. 47

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Rog@18 sez
    2. Gregoire did eliminate 1,000 middle manager jobs from the state bureaucracy, you lying sack of shit.
    Comment by Roger Rabbit— 12/27/05 @ 12:49 pm”

    Rog…NO bureaucrats were fired. Gregoire “eliminated” these middle managers simply by CALLING THEM SOMETHING ELSE!!
    Smoke and mirrors!
    Give me the names of any FIRED middle manager.
    Give me a list of those 1000 “eliminated” middle managers”?
    They include retirees & transfers….NO ONE WAS FIRED! Not one single person.
    But thanks for the New Years joke Rog!!!!!!

  35. 48

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Rog—In fact, a huge number of those managers have become DUES PAYING Union protected workers!!!

  36. 49

    righton spews:

    roger. You are out of calibration

    Liberal: times, pi, ny times, weekly, sf chron etc
    modeerate: dunno
    conservative; wsj editorial page
    far right; wash times

  37. 50

    bill spews:

    sven, regarding ‘or other public building’, a post office is a public building. As is normal for a building such as an apartment building, when you address to one, its customary to include a box number.

  38. 51

    Sven spews:

    But King COunty routinly scans to disallow PO boxes as residence/ The PO building adress would be used in that case.

    What is at issue are the Mailbox Etc type of mail box services that are not listed as a PO box on the address.

  39. 53

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    How about a new county prosecutor who isn’t a partisan hack — or, if he’s a partisan hack, a Democratic hack?

  40. 54

    righton spews:

    dems just want total control of this city, counnty, state. 1 guy stoppping 1 party total control.. (ignoring sam reed who’s not a repub)

  41. 55

    Voter Advocate spews:

    The WAC says:

    Registering at a nontraditional address will not disqualify a voter from requesting ongoing absentee voter status provided the voter designates a valid mailing address.

    I read that to mean that, so long as the voter identifies where his/her cardboard box is, the mailing address needs only to be valid, that is, deliverable.

    In an all mail-in situation, nits like a mailing address that looks like a place can’t apply.

  42. 56

    righton spews:

    voter advocate/aka dean logan

    So nice loophole you are proposing; nowhere do you then require someone to eat/drink/sleep in this city/county

  43. 57

    sgmmac spews:

    On 29 Nov Ron Sims said: “However, I also want to stress that I do take proper registration equally seriously. Yesterday I directed County Elections officials to ensure that even though the majority of the challenges were rejected, the matter will not end there. It is clear from the evidence presented that many of the challenged voters need to update their registrations with more detailed residence information. Elections officials will in the immediate future be personally contacting each of those voters to assist them in that task.”

  44. 58

    sgmmac spews:

    US Post Offices are NOT State Public buildings and they are NOT used to register the homeless. Homeless voters are registered at State public buildings. The millionaire rock stars of Seattle are NOT homeless. The Republicans are NOT challenging the homeless who are properly registered. They challenged the Seattle elite who think they are too good to give up their home addresses and hopefully they will someday get around to challenging those hundreds upon hundreds of Seattle workers who are registered at their business addresses. Maybe somebody should pass the word to them that it is no longer acceptable to live in another county and work and vote in Seattle.

  45. 59

    RennDawg spews:

    I have a question. We have to place a stamp on the enevlope to mail in our ballots, correct? We also have to buy the stamps, correct? Could not that be considered a POLL TAX? Just asking.

  46. 60

    karl spews:


    The WAC Specifically specifies they will be registered to a public building, which is not a post office, as we were just informed, or a mailboxes etc.

    Regardless, the concept was to have them identify their nontraditional locatoin and use a nearby public building as their residence for the record as evidenced by the people registered to the Elections office Building.

    Regardless, if they have a retail mail drop listed as their residence, they are in violation unless they happen to reside legally in the building.

    Sorry, it really is that simple.

  47. 61

    sgmmac spews:


    The report that said Logan’s approval rating was in the low 50’s was on the King County Web site, might still be there. It was the same report that Ron Sims spun into saying the majority of the workers still have faith in Logan. It was a razor thin majority. The narrative comments from the workers went from nice to luke warm to scathing.

    It doesn’t really matter how many teams and reports they do on KCRE, they has been reports for the last 10 or so years documenting problems and nothing changes. 2008 is looking to be highly charged and extrememly interesting. They found new ballots nine times in 04 and they might just set a new record in 08. Make sure you keep your eyes peeled on the news every Friday afternoon, it is well known that it is the perfect time to release bad news to the press and they didn’t let us down on Fridays in 04.

  48. 62

    Daddy Love spews:

    So, banks use signatutre matching and I am not aware of accusations of banking irregularities flying about. Is your money secure or not?

  49. 63

    karl spews:

    Do they have to process several million in a few days?

    Banks also require positive ID….and thumbprints…

  50. 64

    Voter Advocate spews:

    2005 Media Follies!

    by Geov Parrish

    Rossi vs. Gregoire. The court case devolved into Republicans dragging out a stunningly weak legal argument so that they could repeat, endlessly, their unsubstantiated charges of vote fraud and a massive conspiracy by King County Elections. They were essentially laughed out of court, but not before months of credulous coverage of their bogus claims. Anyone notice that in 2005 King County Elections performed nearly flawlessly?


  51. 65

    karl spews:

    Seattle weekly is hardly an unbiased source. Might as well be Newsmax….

    And the judge was fairly unkind about the flaws and mistakes in King County. The case was lost because of an unattainable burden of proof, but the point that illegal votes were cast was proven beyond a shodow of a doubt.

    If that led to a better showing this time, then it was time well spent.

    Time will tell.

  52. 66

    Voter Advocate spews:

    There are no unbiased sources. If you have no opinion, you may as well be dead.

    There most certainly is doubt that illegal votes were cast. What was proven was that insufficient preventative measures were in place.

    I wish people would start remembering that saying an illegal act that results in a felony conviction has occured takes more proof than the Republicans pulled out of their butts.

  53. 67

    Voter Advocate spews:


    The report that said Logan’s approval rating was in the low 50’s was on the King County Web site, might still be there.

    It isn’t, if it ever was. If you don’t have a copy of it, your imagination doesn’t refute what people are willing to state the opposite in black and white.

    I witnessed the REALS workers who were standing and applauding Dean Logan at the East Marginal facility on December 21, and I was applauding with them.

  54. 68

    Voter Advocate spews:

    I take that back, it is there. But, 56% saying they have high or very high confidence and 79% admiring Logan’s technical knowlege of elections laws and procedures doesn’t support you characterization, either.

    Of the 36 full-time employees, 34 participated and had several encouraging points to make:

    * 91 percent of the elections workforce surveyed said they felt personally responsible for maintaining proper standards of conduct and compliance with elections laws;

    * 88 percent thought their coworkers were committed to complying with Elections standards, policies and laws;
    * 79 percent would feel comfortable reporting election violations to a supervisor or management;
    * 57 percent thought they can freely raise questions about problems in meeting those standards;
    * 68 percent rated their working relations with their coworkers as good to excellent; half the employees rate the level of confidence they have in their immediate supervisor as high or very high;
    * 56 percent rated their confidence level of the Elections Director as either high or very high – with 79 percent rating his technical expertise in election laws and rules as high or very high;


  55. 69

    karl spews:

    i am glad you admit the flaws in the 2004 election. Thats good.

    I am just not convinced all the flaws are fixed, particuylarly in registration.

    But my point was that the suit did prove the republicans essential point, even if they could not prove it was decisive to the outcome.

    Anyone who called it a model election is wrong.

    This year, i have concerns, but they are much lower then before.

    Its a start, but there is a lot of work to do. Going all absentee is a mistake in my opinion that will open a new can of worms before we finsh off the last one.

    As for Seattle weekly, well it like newsmax doesnt even pretend to be unbiased, as so many of the MSM do. So citing it is hardly persuasive, particularly when the article in question is obviously slanted.

  56. 71

    Voter Advocate spews:

    The Year in Review continues, this time from that (dripping with sarcasm)leftist dirt-bag Joel Connely in the P-I (drip off). I know it’s from the Northwest’s version of the People’s Daily, but hey, I live in Seattle!

    Scattershot attacks on the county elections office, and GOP voter challenges, worked to put the fight back into Democratic King County Executive Ron Sims. Sims won, big.


    Little mention hereabouts that the righties favorite, David Irons, whose campaign was, basically, REALS bad — I fire Logan, lost.

    So, give me your loser bleat, righties.

  57. 73

    Daddy Love spews:

    karl @ 63
    I have never given my banmk a thumbprint for any reason. And I can write a check and the bank will honor it based on my signature.

    And do you even know how many checks a bank processes in a day?

    is your money safe?

  58. 74

    Daddy Love spews:

    Available evidence suggests that election fraud is at most a minor problem across the 50 U.S. states, and does not affect election outcomes, according to a study released by the Demos network, titled Securing the Vote: An Analysis on Election Fraud.

    From the “Central Findings” setion of Securing the Vote: An Analysis on Election Fraud:

    – There is little available evidence that election reforms such as the National Voter Registration Act, election day registration, and mail-in voting have resulted in increases in election fraud.
    – The disenfranchisement of voters through antiquated voting systems, system error, and improper management of registration databases, as occurred in Florida in the 2000 election, is a far bigger problem than traditional forms of election fraud.
    – Election day registration (EDR), which has been proven to increase voter participation, also reduces the possibility for fraud as more registrations are handled by election officials.
    – Vigorous signature-matching procedures can prevent fraud under mail-in voting election systems.

  59. 75

    karl spews:


    karl @ 63
    I have never given my banmk a thumbprint for any reason. And I can write a check and the bank will honor it based on my signature.

    But if I go there to cash it, I who does not have an account, they want two ids and a thumbprint.

    And do you even know how many checks a bank processes in a day?

    THousands an hour i expect, depending on the bank.

    But most are machine run, with only errors flagging it for inspection. The vast majority do not get a signature verification at all.

    is your money safe?

    I am anal about checking my account for fraudulant transactions, and I no longer use checks because of the potential of fraud.

    My money is as safe as my scrutiny allows it. If however I am foolish enough to never validate, never positively reconcile and never verify, then I will never know how much I have will I? Should I then just trust the bank to be right, or should I ask questoins and demand answers when i see irregularities…

    Kind of like vote reconciliations, which King County can still cannot accomplish, despite their having an “accuracy level a bank would be proud of”

  60. 76

    karl spews:


    of course to vote at a poll station, you have to drive to get there and we dont get reimbursed for the gas….So I would have to say the precedent is there to say no.

    It would be a nice thing if the mail ballots were postage paid when they become mandatory, but no one wants to pay that cost I would expect.

  61. 77

    Daddy Love spews:

    oh karl,
    “vote reconciliations” are such a red herring. Voter registration rolls are updated on an ongoing basis all the time, By the time tallied ballots are compared to the current voter rolls, the rolls have changed from the election-day 9and some weeks before for absentees) snapshot(s). They’re not INTENDED to balanecec exactly–it’s just an extra check for anomalies.

  62. 78

    RennDawg spews:

    Well Karl, I walk to the polling station. I do not have a car. No one has to drive to a polling place. But I will have to buy a stamp so poll tax. Also as I have brought up earlier, and it is something everyone here seems to be to chicken to address, I once got my ballot too late for it to count. A few weeks after the election. I sent it in anyways but, I was forward deployed in the navy. I want a guarentee that this will never happen to me or anyone again. If King county cannot make that guarentee than all mail should not be even considered.

  63. 79

    sgmmac spews:


    Ballot reconciliation is meant to reconcile EXACTLY. The voter rolls are “froze” 15 days before the election when registration stops. The Dims system knows who received an absentee and it knows who the voters are. Poll workers control who gets ballots at the polls.

    Don’t believe that spin you heard last year about nobody really knows. There were quite a few Auditors in this State whose county reconciliation matched exactly with zero discrepancies.

  64. 80

    sgmmac spews:


    That report says a lot of bad things.

    9% of employees don’t think they are responsible for complying with standards and election laws.
    21% of employees don’t feel comfortable with reporting violations
    43% of employees don’t feel comfortable with reporting problems in their work area to their supervisor
    44% don’t have a high confidence level in their leader, Dean Logan
    32% of the people there don’t work well together and

    Everyone of the statistics above says one thing. Dean Logan is a lousy supervisor and a lousy leader.

    KCRE’s problem isn’t Grandma and Grandpa at the polls, it’s unsupervised poorly trained workers processing absentee ballots.
    Logan made many bad partisian decisions before, during and after the Nov 04 election that directly impacted on the election outcome.

  65. 82

    Daddy Love spews:

    When you say “ballot reconciliation,” do you mean
    1. The variance between ballots cast and voters credited with voting?
    2. The process of reconciling the number of ballots cast at each precinct and the number of people who voted at each precinct?

    If you mean the former, Secretary of State Sam Reed, a Republican, and Bob Bruce, King County’s former elections director, said that “the discrepancy for which King County is being criticized is unrelated to election accuracy.” In the 2004 election, THIS was the source of the 1,853-vote variance between ballots cast and voters credited with voting. But it was, as I said, a red herring. It was just part of the cloud of dust thrown up by the GOP in 2004 to confuse state residents into thinking something had gone wrong. (Los Angeles County Registrar of Voters Conny McCormack also thinks it’s irrelevant.)

    If you mean #2, what WAS the variance in the 2005 election?

  66. 83

    Voter Advocate spews:



    All Minority opinions, all under 50% of the survey.

    These don’t support your personal contention. You can’t make them into something they are not.

    Dean Logan is liked and respected among REALS employees. Is it a cult of personality? No. It’s a job.

  67. 84

    Voter Advocate spews:


    Faxed Ballots

    * You may request a ballot be faxed to you by contacting the King County Elections Office directly, or the Federal Voting Assistance Program at one of their fax numbers: (703) 693-5527, (800) 368-8683 or DSN 223-5527. You will be faxed a ballot and complete instructions to assist you in voting.

    There are three faxing options available:

    1. You may return your faxed ballot via normal mail delivery.
    2. You may return your ballot via fax to (206) 296-0108; however, you must waive your right to secrecy. Include a cover sheet with your printed name, date of birth and the statement: “I understand that by faxing my voted ballot, I am voluntarily waiving my right to a secret ballot.” You must sign below the statement. You must also fax a copy of the signed voter oath which is on the outside of the absentee ballot envelope.
    3. Your regular absentee ballot may be faxed back and must include the secrecy waiver and a copy of the signed voter oath which is on the outside of the absentee envelope.

    Your original, signed oath and secrecy waiver with the ballot must be received in our office by 9:00 a.m. prior to certification of the election, which occurs 10 days after the Primary and 21 days after the General Election.

  68. 85

    Voter Advocate spews:


    In addition, if you know you will be unable to communicate at election time:

    Special Absentee Ballot

    * You may request a special ballot in writing or via email up to 90 days prior to a primary or general election.
    * Your application must state that you will not be able to return a regular absentee ballot by normal mail within the period provided for regular absentee ballots.
    * You will receive a sample ballot containing all of the races and issues on which you are entitled to vote.
    * The ballot must be returned using normal mail delivery.

  69. 86

    sgmmac spews:


    I never said it was easy…. If you can reconcile a checkbook, you can reconcile ballots, same principle.

  70. 87

    Daddy Love spews:

    So most of our counties can’t balance a checkbook? I think that’s kind of a stretch. And I think it’s not as easy as you make out.

    But please, give me some numbers from the 2005 election. I have no idea what kind of variances you are talking about. And not 2004, 2005.

  71. 88

    RennDawg spews:

    84 I do not have a fax machine. I want to go to the polling place and vote like were supposed to. This all mail is motivated by nothing more than laziness