Time for campaign limits on judicial races

Unable to achieve their agenda through the legislative process, the BIAW and other conservative groups are attempting to pack the bench by spending huge sums on low-profile judicial races:

For the first time in this state, a political action committee has been formed to help elect candidates to the state Supreme Court and Court of Appeals. The Constitutional Law PAC has a right-of-center orientation.

The development alarms some court observers, who say an agenda-driven PAC for judicial elections could threaten the independence and impartiality of the state’s judiciary, and that the emergence of one will lead to other, countervailing PACs.

It’s especially troubling, he said, since Washington is one of only four states that elect judges but have no finance limits on their campaigns. Contributions to candidates for other statewide offices are limited to $1,350 per donor. A bill to place that limit on judicial candidates passed the state House this year but died in the Senate.

This development makes it clear that we absolutely need to pass legislation applying campaign limits to judicial races; if we can’t get it through the Legislature, we need to (gasp) run an initiative. These races have already been heavily politicized, and we simply cannot continue to allow wealthy special interests to pack the bench with judges that favor their agenda.

It also makes it clear that progressives need to create their own version of the BIAW… a blatantly self-interested, partisan organization that exploits a loophole in the state workers compensation system’s “retro rebate” program, to fund candidates and causes.

What we need is a Progressive Industry Association of Washington, that hires away a retro manager from one of the other groups, and competes for business and influence on an even playing field. If we can’t change the rules to make them more fair, then we need to start competing using the rules in place.

Comments

  1. 1

    righton spews:

    hogwash

    you lefties arlready have the SEattle times and PI, plus Kiro, plus the public radio and tv stations.. So you own the propaganda side

    If you want to shut down unpopular free speech, why not be a man and say that..

  2. 2

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Goldy–
    So you want to start your very own “Progressive” Workers Comp. Retro Program??? You want to “compete”???
    Frankly, I think that is a FABULOUS idea!!!!
    You might be able to convince someone to help you with that idea….but you need to save your “beer money” for a few years in order to pay for the technical advice on how to set up your program.
    Retro is a great program that benefits the State, small business and workers. It has been the KEY component in keeping costs down for ALL 3 participants. Yes Goldy, even Labor DIRECTLY benefits from lower Medical Aid premiums as they pay 1/2!!
    Retro refunds are only a small part of the TOTAL Workers Comp cost equation. Lower rates going in caused by excellent safety, claim management, return to work, light-duty and even Kept on Salary programs benefit workers and business.
    Of all the Government “Programs” I’ve ever seen, this is the ONLY one that benefits Workers, the State and Small Businesses.

  3. 3

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Goldy–
    So you want to start your very own “Progressive” Workers Comp. Retro Program??? You want to “compete”???
    Frankly, I think that is a FABULOUS idea!!!!
    You might be able to convince someone to help you with that idea….but you need to save your “beer money” for a few years in order to pay for the technical advice on how to set up your program.
    Retro is a great program that benefits the State, small business and workers. It has been the KEY component in keeping costs down for ALL 3 participants. Yes Goldy, even Labor DIRECTLY benefits from lower Medical Aid premiums as they pay 1/2!!
    Retro refunds are only a small part of the TOTAL Workers Comp cost equation. Lower rates going in caused by excellent safety, claim management, return to work, light-duty and even Kept on Salary programs benefit workers and business.
    Of all the Government “Programs” I’ve ever seen, this is the ONLY one that benefits Workers, the State and Small Businesses.

  4. 4

    DT spews:

    It seems that our Washington State Republikans are starting to get very fiesty just as they are losing whatever momentum they had from the close Governor’s race. It’s time to slap them down and let them know that this is very definitely a Democratic state. They came so close in the Guv’s race only because Christine Gregoire ran as such a middle-of-the roader that many Democrats didn’t trust her. That was their apex and they are not ever going to be that close again and they know that. This has made them very insecure and led to their irrational behavior as epitomized by Chris Vance.

    People in this state are very happy with our state constitution which gives us more privacy and rights than the national constitution. We support the Supreme Court of this state, too, which does a good job of upholding these rights. No builder’s lobby will be able to change that.

    http://www.homesteadbook.com/blog

  5. 5

    Libertarian spews:

    How about term limits for these judges? As a matter of fact, how about term limits for ALL judges and politicians, local, state and national?

  6. 6

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Goldy—
    There are currently 57 Retro Programs in Washington.
    Most are sponsored by legitimate Trade Associations that have been around for decades representing primarily SMALL business.
    In fact, I’ll bet close to 99% of all businesses in Retro are locally and individually owned. Very, very few are National-type corporations.
    I’ll bet you could succcessfully attract a number of “Progressive” businesses to your new, fledgling Association. Whether you could parlay that into a long-term, successful Retro Program is problematic. But I LOVE your competitive spirit Goldy. I love it!!!!
    However, when all is said and done, like most LEFTIST PINHEADED CLOWNS…..you are all talk and don’t have the stomach to really compete. All mouth…no guts.
    This is just another brainfart that will fall into the dungheap with all the rest.
    On one hand, you say Retro is EASY-MONEY.
    So if you believe that, it is logical that you COMPETE!!!!!!!!!!!
    However, as you “Progress” thru what it takes to be successful with this idea you will crumble and fold like a cheap Nehru Jacket!

  7. 7

    BullMooseMikey spews:

    I think those in the legal community who worked damn hard to see I-330 defeated by a healthy margin were expecting this shoe to drop. This is the same old tired script. Get the developers/Liability Reform Coalition types to chip in the initial dough…..then get the direct mail lists from all the churches. Tell the Christians you’re gonna deliver on abortion and gay marriage…..when your real agenda is limiting the scope of labor laws, consumer protection statutes, environmental regulations, and the like.

    Really makes one wonder why the BIAW, along with the insurance companies and Big Pharma (who occupy most of the seats at the LRC table) think “politicizing” the Washington judiciary is gonna be in their best interest. Washington isn’t Texas, and Christians+KVI listeners+east Cascades rednecks do not, thankfully, equal a majority in this state. So, in the words of the finest president since Bill Clinton, I say “bring it on”. Us progressive forces who work in the judicial branch can campaign circles around you even with a smaller warchest — as was proved by I-330’s smashing defeat at the polls.

    Check out some of the names the P-I’s article is floating as possible candidates in the 2006 contested judicial races. Yep, a perfect score from the Christian Coalition means you hold views making you eminently qualified…..for the Iranian judiciary.

    Stay on this one, Goldy. It will be the biggest campaign of 2006, and will have far more relevance to the daily lives of Washingtonians than the Cantwell-McGavick race. Kudos for calling your shot early.

  8. 8

    spews:

    Even though I am a liberal (and damn proud of it–no cover using progressive or some other term) and populist I think the reform should be to not make Judges elected, but appointed with a check and balance of “Should this Judge be reatined?” in the next election cycle. I like to consider myself fairly politically astute, but the fact of the manner is I end up voting on these crucial races either relatively uninformed or leave it blank. I would much rather see the Gov, County Comissioners for local judges I suppose) have to do some scrutiny and be prepared to suffer consequences for not appointing someone reasonable. I would rather have a legislative committee doing vetting and approving the Gov’s recommendations– not depending on the person who can raise the most money from special interest groups on either the left or the right. I know there would be a hue and cry about “taking away my vote” but the retention process would help mollify that. We don’t elect the Supreme Court or federal jobs and we shouldn’t these positions either. As for campaign contrution limits that just makes the entrenched more entrenched as new comers on the left or right could never overcome the incumbent advantage and get name exposure.

  9. 9

    RonK, Seattle spews:

    Port Commissions are another campaign finance blind spot. No matter who or what you are (individual, corp, union, lobby), you can spend as much as you want on a Port Commissioner. Unlike the judiciary, there’s no applicable code of ethics or conflict of interest statute.

    Not as high on the critical list as judgeships — no doubt about it — but an under-the-radar playing field that bears watching.

  10. 10

    RonK, Seattle spews:

    Mikey @ 6 — If the fundies spent more time with their noses in other people’s business and more time with their noses in the Good Book, they’d know the Judges of biblical times (the mainstays of a civil society with uneven executive leadership) were admired for their wisdom and independence, not their piety and partisan loyalty.

  11. 11

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    GOLDY’S PROGRESSIVE WORKERS COMP. RETRO PROGRAM
    Come one,,,,come all!!!!
    If you are Progressive, Goldy has the ticket to EASY money!!!
    Join and sign here….TRUST GOLDY, The RETRO EXPERT!!
    This is such EASY money, that Goldy personally GUARANTEES you a minimum 25% REFUND. GOLDY GUARANTEES this EASY money L&I Program is RISK-FREE!!!! GOLDY GUARANTEES ALL the HUGE PROFITS from his EASY money venture will go to PROGRESSIVE causes & candidates.
    GOLDY ain’t afraid to compete in the FREE-MARKET!!!!
    GOLDY knows a FAT HOG when he sees one….just look at the women he dates!

  12. 12

    klake spews:

    Military voters simply WERE NOT disenfranchised in the Nov. 2004 election, and GOP representations to that effect are a lie.

    Comment by Roger Rabbit— 11/24/05 @ 11:22 pm
    Wabbit I didn’t reference to any one country, but it was Snohomish County.
    1. Fact Check – This year, Democratic legislators proposed moving the primary to August to give counties more time to get ballots to military and other absentee voters. It didn’t pass because Republicans obstructed it.
    Comment by Roger Rabbit— 11/24/05 @ 11:22 pm

    Klake, I have a question – why do our Republican legislators hate military voters?
    Wabbit the word hate is a strong word and is used out of context and it loose it’s value today, like F@&K is substituted for just about everything. Both parties have their bad day with the military, but the Republicans take better care of them unlike the Democrats.

    1.Fact Check – This year, Democratic legislators proposed moving the primary to August to give counties more time to get ballots to military and other absentee voters. It didn’t pass because Republicans obstructed it.
    Comment by Roger Rabbit— 11/24/05 @ 11:22 pm
    Wabbit anything that goes wrong in legislation is the Democratic short comings not the Republicans, Democrats rule the state right now un-obstructed.

  13. 13

    Dave spews:

    Geez Goldy supporters of Initiaitves (AKA PACS or special interest groups) spent millions pushing their agendas. Take for example I-901 which would have never made the ballot nor had enough money to do anything except for the American Cancer Society using tax deductable donations to the tune of over $500,000. The American Lung Assoc and American Heart Assoc. also gave tens of thousands of tax deductable donations.
    If the one sided self serving health extremists (who are bankrolled by drug companies who willingly pay for smoking ban legislation because they want ex-smokers to become addicted to their nicotine patches, nicotine gum and nicotine inhalers) are going to stack the decks via the initiative process why shouldn’t other groups be able to stack the deck to protect their rights.
    You believe it’s okay for some special interest groups to spend millions to take away our rights (as in the case of I-901
    under the phoney premiss of health) but when the other side decides that certain judges should be challenged to get them off the bench you cry foul. Why? Because you don’t like the judges they choose to support.
    What is the difference between spending money to change laws via initiative or spending the same amount to elect judges who believe in protecting our rights and inturpret the law correctly
    according to the supporting group.
    You can’t have it both ways Goldy. Either you get rid of all special interest money or you don’t.

  14. 14

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Frankly, I think that true promoters of free speech, like Goldy & myself, Rog Rabbit and virually all of the RIGHT on this Site are beginning to understand is the biggest problem in this Country are those who wave the Peace Flag promoting tolerance & diversity with their WORDS….until the ugliness of their true intentions disseminates from the bowels of their putrid souls!
    LEFTIST PINHEADED CLOWNS LOVE free speech….as long as it is uttered in a manner and content pleasing to them.

  15. 15

    Dave spews:

    Is that kinda like the nannies believe in everyones property rights except when they don’t approve of you or your actions, even though they’re perfectly legal?

  16. 16

    spews:

    Listening to Goldy on the BIAW you would think they were a union full of donkacratic union goons. The donks sure can dish it out but they CAN’T TAKE IT!!!!!

  17. 17

    sgmmac spews:

    Wow, you are against special interest groups? They run everything else in this state, why not a group to promote Judges too! I don’t know if “Progressives” support unions, or not, because I’m not quite sure what a Progressive is, other than Gregoire claims to be one. The BIAW has adequate competition with the unions in this state, who truly do run everything as they are getting ready to fire around a 1000 state employees.

  18. 18

    Jerry Springer Jr. spews:

    Looks like Mr. Cynical is getting a little NERVOUS. Yes, yes, let’s give the BIAW some REAL COMPETITION. I bet that a well-run program could run the BIAW in circles. As the Bush White House has proven time and again, crony capitalism is INEFFICIENT.

  19. 19

    Felix Fermin spews:

    Good lord, we have GOT to save our democracy from being bought by the corporate oligarchy!

  20. 20

    Libertarian spews:

    sgmmac @ 15:

    “Progressive” is a code word for re-distribution of wealth from those who have it to those that don’t. It’s basically Neo-Socialism at its best.

  21. 21

    Proud to be an Ass spews:

    @16 Yes. The BIAW levies huge administrative fees and keeps an outsized amount of the taxpayer subsidized “rebate”. By all means, a more cost effective building association not so wedded to far rightwingut ideology would severely cramp their style by providing better service to its member firms.

  22. 22

    righton spews:

    LIbbies in Wash State know its in their best interest to appoint judges; with Democratic control, why risk your power at the hands of the electorate….

    I want my perestroika!

  23. 23

    dj spews:

    sgmmac @ 15

    “I don’t know if “Progressives” support unions, or not, because I’m not quite sure what a Progressive is, other than Gregoire claims to be one. “

    Then do a little research, you moron. There are plenty of web resources that can help. Or, is living in ignorance what you prefer?

  24. 24

    dj spews:

    righton @ 19

    “LIbbies in Wash State know its in their best interest to appoint judges; with Democratic control, why risk your power at the hands of the electorate….”

    Hmmmm…did not get the impression from Goldy’s post that he is interested in appointed judges. I got the impression that he wanted to impose the same kind of campaign contribution limits that partisan politician have.

    You wingnuts sure have a “reality” all your own!

  25. 26

    dj spews:

    RUFUS @ 22

    “I will help you out:
    Progressive = a liberal hiding from being called a liberal.”

    That definition is probably close enough for idiots like you RUFUS. You wingnuts aren’t really up to leaning beyond childish oversimplifications.

  26. 27

    spews:

    Hey DJ-

    Iam progressive as well. I am progressive in lowering taxes and getting the government out of people lives. I am progressive also on more military spending.

  27. 28

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Isn’t it interesting I have to read the illegitimate queens edicts in a paper/site from another state… the same state I might add, where she chose to celebrate (hide the celebration??) her ascendancy to her crooked throne… illegitimate queen chrissy… why do you not support the state you supposedly love?

  28. 29

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    oops, incomplete… get over it.

    Isn’t it interesting I have to read the illegitimate queens edicts in a paper/site from another state… the same state, I might add where she chose to celebrate (hide the celebration???) her ascendancy to her crooked throne… queen chrissy, why do you not support the state you supposedly love?

  29. 31

    Jo spews:

    Goldy,

    Your idea of limiting contributions would only apply to individuals. The result would make these PACs even more influential, as they would not be limited from making independent expeditures.

    Jo

  30. 32

    For the Clueless spews:

    DOOFUS and WrongOne – Losers and liars on elections, taxation – just about everything. Anti-democracy, pro-fascist.

  31. 33

    For the Clueless spews:

    Cynical Irrelevant Clown – in a class of lies and hatred all his own – his highest achievement in life.

  32. 34

    righton spews:

    clueless

    you forgot the standard nazi direct slur (as opposed to sissy “fascist” tie in)

  33. 35

    dj spews:

    RUFUS @ 24

    “Iam progressive as well. I am progressive in lowering taxes and getting the government out of people lives. I am progressive also on more military spending. “

    Ignorance is bliss fer ya, isn’t it?

    Moron.

  34. 36

    For the Clueless spews:

    WrongOne:

    Nope I believe in calling a spade a spade. The Nazis were a class of fascist to themselves.

    Look up the 14 or 15 points that characterize fascism – you follow that pretty closely if not exactly.

  35. 37

    dj spews:

    ProudASS @ 26

    “Isn’t it interesting I have to read the illegitimate queens edicts in a paper/site from another state… the same state, I might add where she chose to celebrate (hide the celebration???) her ascendancy to her crooked throne… queen chrissy, why do you not support the state you supposedly love?”

    Get some help…you’re ranting incoherently again.

  36. 38

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @4

    “How about term limits for these judges? As a matter of fact, how about term limits for ALL judges and politicians, local, state and national?”

    Washington’s term limits initiative was struck down as unconstitutional. You would have to amend the constitution.

  37. 39

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @10

    “Wabbit anything that goes wrong in legislation is the Democratic short comings not the Republicans,”

    So now you’re blaming what the Republicans did on the Democrats? Klake the Flake … the name fits …

  38. 40

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Get some help…you’re ranting incoherently again. -Comment by dj— 11/25/05 @ 1:27 pm

    Actually I’m not.

    The beer beggar neglected to post an OPEN THREAD, so being PROACTIVE, (as opposed to being a liberal lemming) I took it upon myself to usurp this boring one and start it for him.

  39. 41

    dj spews:

    ProudASS @ 36

    “Actually I’m not.

    The beer beggar…”

    WTF? Goldy lets you post comments on his blog, and this is how you address him? You are a fucking ingrateful asshole.

    “neglected to post an OPEN THREAD”

    You are also a fucking dolt. The open threads rarely show up until the evening (sometimes very late in the evening).

    “, so being PROACTIVE”

    You mean, “being the mistaken moron…”

    “, (as opposed to being a liberal lemming) I took it upon myself to usurp this boring one and start it for him.”

    Look, you fucking asshole, Goldy has very few rules around here. One of them is that you remain reasonabally on topic. If you want to raise a new topic, go to the LAST open thread (or Drinking Liberally post, which Goldy has stated is, essentially, an open thread), or wait until Goldy posts a new open thread.

    Usurping threads does not comply with what Goldy has asked of his guests.

  40. 42

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Ahhh I just sooooo forgot you are the designated Goldy apologist and henchman wannabe… get paid out of the beer begging pot, do you?

  41. 44

    For the Clueless spews:

    ASS:

    Apologist for what? Getting Mike Brown to resign? Putting the violent liar David Irons in his place? Calling the election 100 percent right? Winning on the merits and not losing to liars and haters?

  42. 45

    dj spews:

    ProudASS @ 38 and 39

    “Ahhh I just sooooo forgot you are the designated Goldy apologist and henchman wannabe… get paid out of the beer begging pot, do you?

    Or just looking for some attention from the head lemming?”

    More unintelligable tripe from the Wingnut brigade!

  43. 46

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    You may think it’s tripe… and a big whoop de doo on what you think… but we all notice that, yet again, you refuse to answer the charge that your little nose is so far up Goldy’s ASS that everyone thinks he’s had a monkey grafted to his butt.

  44. 47

    dj spews:

    ProudASS @ 42

    “but we all notice that, yet again, you refuse to answer the charge that your little nose is so far up Goldy’s ASS that everyone thinks he’s had a monkey grafted to his butt.”

    Really? Where was this question asked of me where I did not respond? Or are you, once again, making up stooopid shit?

    The answer is no, BTW.

    So, here is a question for you. How much money do you get paid for being a troll you fucking wingnut slut?

  45. 48

    klake spews:

    1. Looks like Mr. Cynical is getting a little NERVOUS. Yes, yes, let’s give the BIAW some REAL COMPETITION. I bet that a well-run program could run the BIAW in circles. As the Bush White House has proven time and again, crony capitalism is INEFFICIENT.
    Comment by Jerry Springer Jr.— 11/25/05 @ 11:34 am
    Jerry Springer Jr is that your real name or are you related to the Hollywood version. Jerry, Jerry you should visit China today you would see history in the making. They are changing from Mao system and his great Red Book to something like ours without imploding like Russia. No government can run like a Company because when it goes bankrupt so goes the country. The leaner the government the better chances for survival and healthier country. Companies will disappear , and in most cases have little effect on the people or nation. Jerry please define crony capitalism in America, how such small players affect the big picture, and the byproduct from Karl Marx is better in Russia?

  46. 49

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    ANOTHER LYING LIB….

    go look goldy’s-monkey-butt…christmasghost challenged you the very same way this past week…and oh go look, you pulled the very same foul mouthed answer out of your little pea brain… I guess having your head up goldy’s ass makes it hard to not think filth…

    grow up little goldy’s-monkey-butt… he can always buy larger pants.

  47. 52

    Libertarian spews:

    sgmmac @ 15:

    A progressive essentially is a person who believes in the socialist idea of re-distributing wealth.

    And to dj: just because a person expresses lack of knowledge about an item does not mean that he or she is a moron. sgmmac’s question as to the nature of progressives was vailid, so why all the hostility?

  48. 53

    GBS spews:

    @ 45

    That’s rich, you’re castigating someone on this blog for foul mouthed responeses?!?! Hahahahahaha

    This from the same woman who got opened her big mouth on the Eyeman thread, got called out on it and couldn’t answer the same question I posed @ 47 on this thread and started calling me a “welfare whore” and other Christian comments.

    Go on, Proud ASS, dazzle us with your knowledge of economics since you think “W” and the Republicans are doing such a bang up job on the economy.

    Why do foregin governments buy US debt?

  49. 54

    klake spews:

    1. @10
    “Wabbit anything that goes wrong in legislation is the Democratic short comings not the Republicans,”
    So now you’re blaming what the Republicans did on the Democrats? Klake the Flake … the name fits …
    Comment by Roger Rabbit— 11/25/05 @ 1:33 pm
    Wabbit you miss the point; if you rule the STATE (Democrats) and can’t pass legislation don’t blame anyone but your own party. If you have all the power to make change and do nothing with it, everyone is the looser. LBJ prove that point in the 60’s when he enacted more legislation than any President in History. Most of the legislation was a failure and some of those mistakes we live with today. Hey, Wabbit do you referrer to Mr. Cynical as Doc since you love playing the role rabbit. “What’s up Doc!” and he “You funny rabbit”?

  50. 56

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Oh ho, I have been waiting for you little nitwit… lets talk about those oh so successful European governments you drool over… and discuss how sustainable they are… I know, I’m stealing your perfected MO of altering the subject, but I’m a quick study and you’re just so darn good at it., little miss garbage billows steadily.

  51. 58

    dj spews:

    ProudASS @ 45

    “go look goldy’s-monkey-butt…christmasghost challenged you the very same way this past week…and oh go look, you pulled the very same foul mouthed answer out of your little pea brain…”

    Surprise, surprise, dimwitted ProudASS, I did responded to Christmasidiot. Therefore you were WRONG when my suggested that I “refuse to answer the charge that …” in post 42.

    Ya know, ProudASS, you are not as stupid as some posters around here (like JCH or Janet S), but sometimes you are the biggest fool around here.

    And regarding my language. If you don’t like it, haul you fat ass elsewhere. We don’t need fucked-up assholes like you around here telling us what language we can or cannot use.

  52. 59

    dj spews:

    ProudASS @ 45

    I am thinking that you don’t understand why usurping a thread is unacceptable because you are too lazy to (or incapable of) actually looking up what Goldy has said publically on this topic.

    So, here is the post. And here is an excerpt of the relevant text:

    As most of you know, I have been forced to crack down somewhat on pointless, off-topic comments that were making the threads unreadable….

    …I’ve decided to create a weekly “Open Thread” where you are free to post on whatever subject you want. I hope you will all play nice, and use this as a forum for real debate – however angry and vitriolic – but this is your sandbox, so shit in it if you want.

    In exchange, I ask you all to try to stay on-topic in the other threads. I understand that debate sometimes wanders in unexpected directions, so tangents are fine. But if you feel the need to hijack a thread for your own personal agenda, this is the thread to hijack.

    Live by one of the very few rules that Goldy has, or leave, fucking jackass!

  53. 60

    For the Clueless spews:

    ASS:

    You posted a link (first to E-bay snicker, snicker) then to the MOONIE TIMES! Why am I not surprised? Wingnuts propaganda at its finest.

    LMAO at the ASS!

  54. 61

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    I see so because YOU in your gloriously billowing spew don’t like the source of the work, you immediately discount all the research and resulting facts. And then you wonder why we call you Koolaid drinkers.

    regarding the link… yep, indeed I screwed up… I immediately admitted so and corrected the mistake, which you conveniently neglected to mention. That admission, garbage billows steadily, is called being mature enough to admit mistakes… hopefully someday even YOU will get there.

  55. 62

    GBS spews:

    Proud Dumb Ass:

    I’m altering the subject? That’s a laugh, sweet cheeks. I’ve been asking you to answer just one question for several days now and you’ve done everything from calling me dirty names to posting links about European governments. Does the word contradiction mean anything to you?

    I am directly posing a question to you, not about European countries, but more to the point the state of the US economy.

    What I am asking you has a direct impact on our economy on many different levels. I’ve been persistent in asking you one question, that you keep avoiding like, well, like the way a conservative avoids the truth.

    So, I’ll ask one more time: Why do foreign governments, like China, buy US debt?

  56. 63

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    And you have ALTERED THE ORIGINAL SUBJECT of the post…goose/gander, sweetcheeks.

    Just because YOU don’t like reality, doesn’t make it any less real.

  57. 64

    GBS spews:

    Um, Dumb Ass @ 55

    By bolding the g b s in your post are you infering that I said you posted the wrong link?

    Is it possible that someone else pointed that out?

    Would you now like to retract your mistake and, as you say, be mature enough to admit it?

  58. 65

    klake spews:

    WASHINGTON — It was after 11 p.m. on Friday when Rep. Norm Dicks finally left the Capitol, fresh from the heated House debate on the Iraq war. He was demoralized and angry.
    Sometime during the rancorous, seven-hour floor fight over whether to immediately withdraw U.S. troops, one Texas Republican compared those who question America’s military strategy in Iraq to the hippies and “peaceniks” who protested the Vietnam War and “did terrible things to troop morale
    Well. Well, our state steps up to the plate and show their real colors. What color would that be, yellow, red, or pink. Wabbit tell me how a bunch of political hacks learned to conduct a war and still win it? This war is different than Vietnam due to the men and women who are fighting it. They are there to WIN it, and make a major change in this world where others have failed. This state leadership is making fools of themselves at the cost of American soldiers and the Iraq’s. Anytime an Army retreats it encourages the other party to fight harder. The only logic I see in a retreat is to encourage an ambush of your enemies. The big question is who are you enemies? Did they support you in the past and now jumping ship because they lack the will to fight. They are not Pacifist for they never abandoned their proctors and the only group that did this were wiped out to the person. The only Group to abandon their protectors have been referred to as Cowards. On the battlefield the soldiers shot those broke ranks and ran. The War on Terror. defined the battlefield, and does the same rule stills applies today?

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ks25m.html

  59. 67

    righton spews:

    back on topic

    What about worthless judge Bobbi (hic) Bridge….does she get to keep her job forever, or is your cure some phony “commission”

    and yeah, i know she’ll get relected till forever.. (or the next dui) ha

  60. 68

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    check the timestamp, nitwit

    Oh ho, I have been waiting for you little nitwit… lets talk about those oh so successful European governments you drool over… and discuss how sustainable they are… I know, I’m stealing your perfected MO of altering the subject, but I’m a quick study and you’re just so darn good at it., little miss garbage billows steadily.

    Comment by HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS— 11/25/05 @ 3:13 pm

    lmao, wrong link… get over it…

    European governments

    Comment by HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS— 11/25/05 @ 3:15 pm

  61. 69

    cougar spews:

    looks like our most ignorant ass can’t even learn how to end italics….how could he/she/IT ever learn to be a decent citizen?

  62. 70

    GBS spews:

    Cougar at 62

    I have to confess I don’t know how either. I’m not computer savvy enough to figure out how to bold type either. Is there some tips you could share so I can figure it out?

    I’d really appreciate it. Spell check would be nice, too.

    Thanks,
    GBS

  63. 71

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    we’ve been after the beer beggar to pony up for less beer and put in a preview button, like the awesome one they have over at http://www.soundpolitics.com/ but clearly drinking liberally ismore important than site improvement.

  64. 73

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    html tags GB if you want to bold something you put a B inside the sideways v (< .....>) at the beginning of of what you want to bold then the then the same b in the same tags with a slash in front of the B to end the bold… I can do it moderatley better than I can expalin it…. sorry.

  65. 74

    GBS spews:

    Hey Proud Ass:

    I have to leave now. Let me just ask you this question. Are you, or are you not, going to engage in meaningful dialogue and answer the one question about US debt that I’ve been hounding you about?

    If you’re not, just say “No, I’m not going to answer your question.” If that’s the case, then I won’t trouble you by asking that particular question again.

    Just wondering if debate on such an important topic is possible with an obviously ardent conservative.

    Have a Happy Friday and a good weekend,
    GBS

  66. 76

    Mr. Fix-it spews:

    Is retro really a successful state program?? Essentially retro functions as a form of group insurance in WA State’s exclusive monopoly on mandatory workers’ compensation (WC) insurance for employers.(Employers can only join the state fund or self-insure, no group insurance, no private insurance is allowed). The system functions to ‘rebate’ WC premium based on a reduction in the employers’ expected future expenses. So if an employer has a reduction in claims’ costs and the number of claims, they should make out well and get a rebate.

    Sounds good but let’s face it there are ways to game the system. First, you try to enroll employers who initially have a lot of claims – thus high WC rates– as these employers have a natural reduction in their WC claims experience (something like regressing to the mean) in terms of injury experience they will likely get a refund for doing very little. Second, generally new employers have terrible injury rates, if the employer makes it beyond the first couple of years they will likely have a decreased injury experience and therefore as a retro group you select employers in their second and third year of business. This is probably why the construction and ag industry have the most successful(?)retro groups. Third, it’s a mystery how L&I sets rates. If the rates are set too high the costs as a group likely will exceed the expected losses, thereby increasing the refund. Four, the retro groups do little other than harass the state fund administrators or claim adjudictors into managing their claims more aggressively. This takes away from the claim adjudicators time with other non-retro cases and likely makes the retro groups look more effective than the state fund. It also adds incentive to retro groups to be sleazy in claims management. Finally, why the hell does a worker pay a portion of the workers’ comp premium and receive zero refund. I don’t understand too much of the workings of retro…but on it’s face as an insurance mechanism it’s a bunch of smoke and mirrors…

  67. 77

    Puddybud spews:

    Mr Thread Policeman DJ: We who always think right will NOT listen to your tripe, farts, belching, or long-windedness on thread hijacking. You do not equally apply your warped sense of logic on what post hijacked the thread. Otherwise you would be slapping Rupert Wabbet, rugrat602, clueless and windbag each day for thread hijacking. But noooooooooooooooooooooo, not dj. He doesn’t have a non-partison bone in his “independent” body!!!

  68. 78

    dj spews:

    PuddyIdiot @ 70

    “Mr Thread Policeman DJ: We who always think right will NOT listen to your tripe, farts, belching, or long-windedness on thread hijacking. You do not equally apply your warped sense of logic on what post hijacked the thread. Otherwise you would be slapping Rupert Wabbet, rugrat602, clueless and windbag each day for thread hijacking.”

    Nope…I comment to whoever I want to comment to. I don’t comment to whoever YOU want me to, you twisted idiot!

    “But noooooooooooooooooooooo, not dj. He doesn’t have a non-partison bone in his “independent” body!!!”

    What the fuck????? Are you living in non-sequitor “puddyworld” again, Bozo?

  69. 79

    dj spews:

    ProudASS @ 64

    “we’ve been after the beer beggar to pony up for less beer and put in a preview button, like the awesome one they have over at http://www.soundpolitics.com/ but clearly drinking liberally ismore important than site improvement.”

    What do you expect, with cunts like you calling the host names?? If you don’t like the site, I suggest you take your bullshit elsewhere.

  70. 80

    LeftTurn spews:

    This right wing PAC isn’t all bad news. I often don’t have much info about judges running in NP elections. Now, thanks to these traitors, I can just vote against their boys and know I am doing the right thing!

  71. 81

    For the Clueless spews:

    Are you living in non-sequitor “puddyworld” again, Bozo?

    Thanks dj. I keep meaning to use that, e.g.:

    Cynical Irrelevant Bozo!

  72. 82

    headless lucy spews:

    Give each righty troglodyte one comment a day and then ban them for the rest of the day.

    “The only way to defeat a knave is with more knavery.”

    Niccolo Macchiaveli

    Let’s start compiling a list of voters in Republican districts and if we can find anything even slightly wrong with them, challenge them. I am going to look into this.

  73. 83

    headless lucy spews:

    Mr. Cynical edits and erases comments on uSP and bans them as well. Who is this Nazi bastard — and why should we have to put up with his crap? He ads nothing to the discourse here.

  74. 84

    Puddybud spews:

    DJ: I guess the turkey has affected your little mind.

    “Nope…I comment to whoever I want to comment to. I don’t comment to whoever YOU want me to, you twisted idiot!”

    Thanks for the twisted idiot. The Caddyshack Gopher comes to mind. And, we’ll continue to ignore pompous ASSes like you DJ.

    An independent is non-partisan. You are not-partisan. Therefore your rant will be ignored, so rant on thread policeman. It will be to your partisan friends. We who think right will chuckle!

    Since you “claim” to be independent, I asked you to name me one thread heading you disagreed with over a week ago. Still waiting. Good thing I won’t hold my breathe and turn white.

    Remember ProudAss, Cunt is a good name. It’s the progressives that made it a negative colloquialism.

  75. 86

    dj spews:

    Puddybud @ 77

    “An independent is non-partisan. You are not-partisan. Therefore your rant will be ignored, so rant on thread policeman. It will be to your partisan friends. We who think right will chuckle! “

    What the fuck are you babbling about? Hey, Puddy, are you EVER going to learn how to read and understand what someone says?

    You call me “independent” because I have told you that I am not a member of any political party. The fact is, I have never been and am not a member of any political party. I have lived in states where you had to declare your party to vote in the primary—I refused to vote in primaries.

    So, you take those statements and twist them using your own “special” puddyworld mal-logic and suggest I don’t have political opinions? You fucking fool, I have said plenty of times that I am a liberal—but I am just not a Democrat.

    Gawwwwwwwd, you are SUCH a fucking moron!!!!

  76. 87

    dj spews:

    PuddyIdiot @ 78

    “And you add to the discourse headless Lionel? “

    …asks the village idiot.

  77. 88

    headless lucy spews:

    re 78: Your reply answers your own question. Are you still smarting over the Lionel comment?

  78. 90

    Puddybud spews:

    Yes, puddyworld is a nice place where I don’t call my political opponents “cunts”. You may be a jackass or stuckonstupid, on a dumb fuck, or a prick but never a cunt. We leave that to “progressives”. We love to thread hijack, watch you rant, and ignore you. Just as plain as above.

    I ran a Google search on DJ. Results about 269 for “+DJ +I’m +Liberal +Horsesass”. Not once did it display anything remote to your above comment. Delusional DJ? You are a liberal, and you never disagree with Goldy, no matter if other lefty people do. So to you DJ I may be a “fool”, but this “fool” remembers the shit said by libruls. Parse on little perfesser. Looks like to the world whom uses Google, you don’t remember what you say or don’t say.

  79. 91

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    He can’t disagree with Goldy… he’s worried Goldy would use a laxative and pass (snicker) him out explosively!

  80. 92

    GS spews:

    Then Goldy, you must also be for campaign limits on the millions of dollars unions and companies like Microsoft spend against initiatives like the I912 Initiative.

    Glad to hear it! There is hope yet for this bunch!

  81. 93

    headless lucy spews:

    What is the proportional amounts of money that Dems get from Unions as Reps get from corporations who depend on Reps for their corporate welfare? I’ll tell you how much. The tax break subsidized corporations and the uber rich contribute 70% more money to the Reps than the Dems get from unions, corporations and private contributors, COMBINED!!!

    So you can take your anti-union rhetoric and shove it up your soft money ass. This Rep money laundering investigation is going to take down some of your neo-con’s loudest and most persistent liars.

    You know why we have such good luck prosecuting Reps? Because Reps really are crooks!

  82. 94

    Mrs. Rabbit spews:

    Roger Rabbit is unable to put the trolls in their place today. He had surgery this morning. He will resume tormenting trolls in a day or two.

  83. 97

    spews:

    You know why we have such good luck prosecuting Reps? Because Reps really are crooks!

    Comment by headless lucy— 11/25/05 @ 7:18 pm

    Actually no one has been found guilty yet. Anybody can charge someone with a lie. Delay will be found innocent of all charges and will be smiling as he walks out the court room. Scooter may be found guilty of perjury, he will not have the benefit of the Clinton treatment.

  84. 98

    For the Clueless spews:

    So to you DJ I may be a “fool”, but this “fool” remembers the shit said by libruls

    As instructed by your master Satan per your comrade Dr. Michael Aquino.

    Repent Freep Koresh – you’re soul is dire jeopardy.

  85. 99

    For the Clueless spews:

    DOOFUS @ 90

    Yeah like that’s gonna pan out like your election contest and I-912 predictions.

    How does it feel to be such a loser DOOFUS?

    Did you vote for Will Baker?

  86. 100

    Puddybud spews:

    What? Huh? Did the Clueless one say something? As others said, you are aptly named.

    Clueless, doesn’t shit unless he first gets wiping directions from Daily Kurse or Media Matters. Yeah, Media Matters, using fish wrappers to wipe his ass.

    Clueless, doesn’t think or determine his daily thoughts until he reads the latest “progressive” thought on michaelmooron.org

    Clueless, doesn’t create worthless blog entries unless he first checks moveon.org

    Clueless, I thought Goldy predicted a loss for I-900. He was WRONG. So much for 100%.

  87. 101

    headless lucy spews:

    Rufus: Please. Save your claptrap for the true believers. Before this it was: “Well, no one’s been indicted!” Now that there are mutiple indictments from Abramoff on up this chain of money-laundering crooks, the RIGHTARD MANTRA is: “Well, no one’s been convicted!” After they’re convicted it’ll be: “Well, there’s something wrong with the conviction!” Ten years later it’ll be:”Well, they were all pardoned by President Denny Hastert!”

    It will take generations to undo what this RIGHTARD REVOLUTION ( this pure expression of situation non-ethics ) has done to this poor country and to the world.

    The first thing we need to do is reign in these corporations. Court-Packing may be the only solution. The gloves are (or should be) off the next time Dems. are in power. I hope Katrina and other disasters caused by GLOBAL WARMING and exacerbated by Republican incompetence can put Dems. in power WITHOUT needing corporate money. They’ll realize that they don’t need those bastards to survive politically and we can get on with the business of what’s good for people– not corporations!

    Goodbye GM and good riddance. I guess what’s good for GM is NOT, after all, what is good for America. I wouldn’t bail there sorry asses out……

  88. 103

    spews:

    92

    You libs win a couple initiatives and governorships in donks states and you are acting like you have won the presidency and there are two vacant SCOTUS positions.

  89. 104

    Mrs. Rabbit spews:

    The doctor warned me that Roger will be under the influence of the anesthetic for 24 hours, and should not operate dangerous machinery.

  90. 105

    sgmmac spews:

    Rabbit,

    Best wishes for a speedy recovery! We need your humor, especially in this thread. It’s particularly vicious today with very aggressive name calling. I was looking for discussion and found vituperation.

  91. 106

    Puddybud spews:

    Loosy: You and your friends perform the hershey highway fudgepacking, we “rightards” will perform the SCOTUS court-packing!! Ha ha ha ha ha!

    So loosy, you and your ilk elected “progressive” judges like Judge Harry Rapkin, now unemployed. Judge Harry Rapkin let Joseph P. Smith go even after knowing and reviewing his 13 previous convictions. So what did Joseph P. Smith do loosy? He raped and murdered 11 year-old Carlie Bruscia. You had to see the video tape as it was played over and over, right loosy? Yes, loosy we’ll pack the courts, because people are waking up to these “progressive” create laws from the bench types like Judge Harry Rapkin who is now unemployed!

  92. 107

    headless lucy spews:

    re 96: Rufus:There is nothing in the Constitution that forbids adding more justices to the Supreme Court. And if we try a filibuster with Scalito and it is pevented by the “nuclear option” it will be perceived by the electorate as the fascistic , authoritarian act that it is. You RIGHTARDS are like small children caght in a pair of CHINESE HANDCUFFS and you can’t figure out how to get out.

    “The door is locked from the other side.”

    Chairman Mao

  93. 108

    Puddybud spews:

    Damn, I explain to loosy about “prgressive judges like Judge Harry Rapkin and the filter catches it. Loosy check on Google about Judge Harry Rapkin.

  94. 109

    headless lucy spews:

    sgmmac: Cynical, Puddwhack, righton etc…. are the causes of the vituperation. Why don’t you pretend to be a male Master Sergeant and tempt them back to uSP?

    We don’t call them blowhards for nothing!

  95. 111

    Puddybud spews:

    Loosy: You don’t have the guts to view the real killer of Carlie Bruscia: Liberal “progressive” jusge Harry Rapkin.

  96. 112

    GS spews:

    Rabbit, your Gregoire state health care (fully paid for for your family by us wahsington taxpayers) should hopefully pull you through. I Hope your surgery goes well and as expected!

    This website would lose half of it’s visits should the retired from the state Wabbit not feel up to posting.

    I kicked your ass royally once (on who appointed Christine Gregoire to a public oriface), and am looking forward to doing it again.

    Cheers, have a bowl of chicken soup on me! Yum Yum!

  97. 114

    headless lucy spews:

    Maybe Judge Rapkin would send more men like Smith back to prison if there were more room in the prisons. Prisons at this point in time are clogged with non-violent offenders who have drawn hard time while the people who know how to play the system ( Smith and Mr. Cynical) go free. I am now going to Google: “Conservative judges who made mistakes” and see what I come up with.

  98. 115

    Mrs. Rabbit spews:

    Roger is coming to, but he needs to rest. The doctor also the painkillers may cause some strange behavior for a while.

  99. 117

    sgmmac spews:

    Lucy,

    Why in the world would I pretend to be a male Master Sergeant?
    I AM a female, I AM a retired Sergeant Major. I don’t need to pretend to be something that I am not. At 52, I am 100% sure fo who and what I am. You post on SP all the time, so why don’t you lure them back there!

    And yes, I do too! I just wanted to see the opposing views, because whether you want to believe it or not everything isn’t black or white. I do fall left of center on a few things.

  100. 118

    headless lucy spews:

    Puddwhack: The only search that turned something up was: “The masturbating conservatve judge.” You can read all the details on, bubbaworld.com

  101. 119

    For the Clueless spews:

    Puddy “Freep” Koresh or TripleP (Puddy Pod Person):

    And I have named you in return, quite aptly IMHO.

    Notice how the patient projects:

    PFK(PPP): Doesn’t shit until until he first gets wiping instructions from Captain Ed or Media Research Center. Wipes his ass with the Washington Times.

    PFK(PPP) doesn’t think or determine his daily thoughts untils he reads the latest “wrong thinking” on townhall(clownball).com, WSJ Editorial Page, Newsmax, WND, NRO, RNC, Whitehouse.gov, Washtimes.com and about a million wingnut blogs all the while listening to O’Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh, Medved, Wilbur, Siegel, Carlson AND watching (what else?) Faux News.

    PFK(PPP) doesn’t create worthless blog entries until he prays to his “higher Father” for guidance in the holy war on people he looks down his holier than thou nose at.

    Yeah I guess you can’t win ‘em all. You wingnuts should know that one by now.

  102. 120

    headless lucy spews:

    sgmmac: You are one of those people who are funny but will never understand why. Your naivete is almost unbelievale!

  103. 121

    For the Clueless spews:

    My my how could I forget all the Murdoch publications – he whacks off to those too.

  104. 123

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Maybe Judge Rapkin would send more men like Smith back to prison if there were more room in the prisons. -Comment by headless lucy— 11/25/05 @ 8:56 pm

    Exactly! Let’s privatize them, run them like a businees and buy stock shares in the companies that do the best job… you know, FREE ENTERPRISE!

    When the nutburgers (yep that’s you loone and aptly-named-clueless-one) finally see how well it truly works we can move on to the disfuctional and failing school system.

  105. 125

    Mrs. Rabbit spews:

    I know what some of you are thinking. Roger wasn’t neutered today. He only had a wisdom tooth removed. Roger is going to rest now.

  106. 126

    For the Clueless spews:

    I forgot Michael Savage Weiner. PFK(PPP) luuuurrrrves him. Can’t move his bowels until MSW gives the say so.

  107. 127

    spews:

    re 96: Rufus:There is nothing in the Constitution that forbids adding more justices to the Supreme Court. And if we try a filibuster with Scalito and it is pevented by the “nuclear option” it will be perceived by the electorate as the fascistic , authoritarian act that it is. You RIGHTARDS are like small children caght in a pair of CHINESE HANDCUFFS and you can’t figure out how to get out.

    “The door is locked from the other side.”

    Chairman Mao

    Comment by headless lucy— 11/25/05 @ 8:40 pm

    Bush beat Kerry by 4 million votes (probably more if you subtract out all the fruadulent donk votes). One of the biggest reasons he was voted in for a second term is because the public is scared shitless of more libral(progressive) activist judges. If you think there will be backlash if the nuclear option was triggered I have got just three words to say to you

    BRING IT ON!!!

  108. 129

    Puddybud spews:

    Clueless: Never an original thought on ASSes. Has to utilize my discussion items to make his putrid points. Kurse on Karma Clueless.

  109. 130

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    104

    If you kicked you my ass, it must have been when I was out cold under the anesthetic.

    P.S., I don’t know where you get the idea my retiree state health insurance is paying for this. I’m not on the congressional health plan, asshole. This is costing several thousand dollars, and every cent comes out of my own pocket, despite the thousands of dollars a year I pay for retiree health insurance.

  110. 131

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    whaa whaa cry me a river then tell us how great nationalized healthcare will be.

  111. 132

    sgmmac spews:

    Yeah, what’s up with Dentists? I pay over twice for Dental Insurance as I do health insurance, and the coverage sucks.

    It’s time for campaign limits on every race and it’s past time for those campaign limits to apply to every person and every organization. Thank goodness I have Direct TV and rarely watch local TV stations. The TV commercials by all of the opposing groups are worse than stupid and rarely contain an ounce of truth.

    Pacs have taken over the politics in the US. Whoever invented them, needs to uninvent them or at least put some reasonable restraints on them.

  112. 133

    GS spews:

    Freedom is not won by this or any other’s web page’s writers. It is won by the almighty brave people fighting continually fighting for this country.

    At this very crucial time in our history, the useless totally non relevant blab on this web page is totally un-important, and not only not worth the efforts waged in writing, not worth the efforts waged in being read.

    The Hero’s from America are TODAY at this very moment, while all of you are sitting in your warm home surfing this and other pages, fighting and dying daily for your freedom. They and their families deserve our utmost support and respect at this critical holiday time. They need our support, not this rediculous political posturing! And they need it now!

    Exit your daily drab at this time and take the time to do something that pays a mayor huge amount of extra respect for them at this time.

    This is my Merry Christmas Wish!

  113. 136

    Jesus Christ spews:

    Jesus, what kind of fucking developer in 2006 (almost) still uses CAPITAL LETTERS for their HTML tags?

  114. 138

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Rog—
    Usually they don’t let you get outta the hospital after surgery until you can take a piss……do you have a catheter???
    Are you wearing a poop bag too???
    It’s hell getting old…but best wishes for a speedy recovery.
    PS…
    We need you back SOON. The real CLOWNS (headlice lucite, Clueless et al) cannot seem to function without you.
    You are the Granddad of all LEFTIST PINHEADS!!
    But I miss you!
    Get well..
    Hope that brain transplant works.

  115. 139

    For the Clueless spews:

    119 – When it comes to slinging sludge and putridity, I stand on the shoulders of giants like Cynical Bozo, ASS and you Puddy Freep Koresh or TripleP. Don’t rest PFK(PPP) or others might usurp your leadership of the HA.org Bush-Davidians.

  116. 140

    For the Clueless spews:

    Cynical Irrelevant BOZO:

    I am not RR. I am not DJ. I am not thehim. I know who I am.

    Do you know you’re a BOZO and you suffer from projection?

  117. 141

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Oral surgery to remove wisdom teeth would not be considered “dentistry”… when my son had his out by an oral surgeon it was covered under med insurance…. if I remember correctly.

    Drink lots of fluids rabbit – but not through a straw… you don’t want a painful dry socket… although I can imagine Mrs R is luxuriating in the SILENCE!

  118. 142

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    122

    Because it’s not “insurance” anymore, it’s “prepaid health care.” Insurance is based on risk-spreading principles; but since everyone uses health and dental care, medical/dental “insurance” premiums really are little more than advance payment for the services you consume.

    121

    “tell us how great nationalized healthcare will be”

    And no health care is better? That’s what 45 million Americans have, and the number grows every year. Of course, we all know what the Republican health care philosophy is: I’ve got mine, so fuck you!

  119. 143

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @123

    With all due respect to our brave troops, whatever they’re fighting for in Iraq, it isn’t my freedom. Iraq was no threat to my freedom. On the other hand, the measures taken by the Bush administration allegedly in the name of freedom — suppressing dissent, spying on American citizens — are a direct threat to my freedom.

  120. 144

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    You know as well as I do dumb bunny that the 45 million “uninsured” you nutburgers like to trot out and whine about is made up largly og ILLEGAL immigrants and healthy young adults who CHOOSE to spend their money on things other than insurance.

    My son and his law school pals were prime example of healthy young males who saw and continue to see no reason to spend on health insurance for the occasional case of the sniffles.

  121. 145

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @128

    “It’s hell getting old …” You ain’t a-shittin. “… but best wishes for a speedy recovery … I miss you!” Gee thanks, Cyn! That’s sweeet.

  122. 146

    David Anfinrud spews:

    It is the right of all citizens to have their voices heard. When it comes to judges it is nearly impossible to tell who will write laws from the bench or Ensure the laws are followed.
    I like the idea of a PAC to support a group to find good Judicial nominees instead of Polical Hacks that get all the news coverage. When I see the Newspaper supporting a Judge I question if that judge is worthy of the bench. I have doubts that anything the Seattle times or PI supports will be for the good of the state. IF polical activitists start screamming the sky is falling then I know this must be a great judge. For in this state the sky is falling means I cant get the judge to change the laws to what I want them to be. Forget the constitution. Forget the Legislature. It has to be my way or no way.
    Is that the kind of judge you want? Remember the Court case for Govenor. Here was a judge that had to follow the laws. He did not interpret them. He did lecture KC about their problems. He could not throw out the election because the legistature burden of proof could not be met. The legistature wrote the laws in such a way that he could not overthrow the election.
    State Supreme court after dozens of attempts to weaken the three strikes your out law. Every case upheld the convictions. The state Supreme court deceides to remove one of types of convictions that was used for three strikes your out. Previous court challenges said it should stand. That is legal precidence. But the State Supreme Court rewrote the law so hundreds of convicted Felons had to have a new trial or be released. Or sentences changed. That is the liberal way of doing business. they dont care about the past cases. Looking for an excuse to get rid of three strikes your out. I guess you liberals like murders walking the street. Has not the crime rate dropped since it became law. Why is it that liberals want to get rid of laws the protect the citizens. I guess I can never understand this progressive thought process. To me evil is evil. They should spend time in jail and if you do three felonies. I guess you cant learn your lesson. Make it permanent. It has been shown that habitual criminals do a lot more than one or two robberies. They do hundreds of robberies. Catching them putting them behind bars means one less thief to steal. Some of these criminals have rap sheets the size of a book. YET they are oppressed. Give me a break. If you do the crime you do the TIME.
    I want judges on the state supreme court that will enforce the laws not find ways to weaken them. Only through real enforcement will you make crime go away. Some of you want to legalize drugs. Why it is against the law. Every one has an excuse but it doesnt matter. Until you get the legislature to change the law it is against the law. Just because you have liberal judges making rulings to weaken these laws it still is a crime. I guess if you can find one victim to parade around that means everyone is a victim therefor no one should go to jail. Think about it if you have no laws then lawlessness will prevail. We are a land of laws If they are weakened or corrupted then those who corrupt them have the power to rule you. Because since they are corrupting laws for their own purpose. What happens if they make laws that makes you the criminal because they have gotten a better payback from another group. They have banned smoking in business places and now a city wants to ban smoking in city parks. Any type of smoking. Will you screaming when they outlaw city parks for smoking. It is one way to prevent Tent City from entering a city. No Smoking allowed. If you cant pay the fine I guess you have to do the time. By the way I do not smoke and I voted no on that item. I lost big deal I am following those rules already because I do not smoke. You have just added another feel good law that if it is enforced will be a major money maker for the city. It is nearly impossible to find a place to smoke that does not have a door way or window or ventilation intake within 25 feet.
    Then again you agreed with the judges that cost the NW thousands of lumbering jobs. Now most of our lumber comes from Canada. Judges moving American job to other countries. Even before NAFTA. Thank you Liberal Judges making laws from the bench and cause tens of thousands of jobs to be lost.

  123. 147

    sgmmac spews:

    Health care costs are out of control. The reasons are many and will we ever have a solution that everyone can agree to. I would like to know where all the billions are going to? Drug companies finance all of their R & D with sick Americans while selling the very same drugs to other countries for 1/3 of the price. Those with insurance are paying outrageous sums of money for the health care that they receive. My daughter had surgery a year or so ago and they charged her 20 bucks for one pill. She was hit by a car at work last year and the emergency put a ace bandage on her leg where the car hit her and it was 20 bucks too! Of course, you can buy the very same bandage at any drug store for 5 bucks. It’s never ending, hospitals and doctors max out insurance claims, and insurance companies raise rates. More people can’t afford insurance, so the uninsured raises, and the circle just continues with rates shyrocketing out of control.

  124. 148

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @126 (continued)

    “Freedom is not won by this or any other’s web page’s writers. It is won by the almighty brave people fighting continually fighting for this country. At this very crucial time in our history, the useless totally non relevant blab on this web page is totally un-important, and not only not worth the efforts waged in writing, not worth the efforts waged in being read.”

    Excuuuuuse me, but the “useless … blab … on this web page” is precisely the freedom the “almighty brave people” are allegedly fighting for, and if nobody exercise that freedom, they’re fighting for nothing.

    “The Hero’s from America are TODAY at this very moment, while all of you are sitting in your warm home surfing this and other pages, fighting and dying daily for your freedom.”

    Two points here.

    1) Some of us posting on this web page have fought the nation’s past wars, and frankly, we’re a little long in the tooth to be doing that anymore. Besides, we’ve done our share … paid our dues … it’s another generation’s turn.

    2) You seem to think the only “heroes” are those engaged in combat. However, the countless veterans who served but never saw combat are heroes, too. They gave up their family lives, hot meals, creature comforts, and safety to guard our nation’s perimeters in places like Thule, Greenland; the DMZ of Korea; in submarines under the ocean’s surface; on Coast Guard cutters in the Bering Sea; at bases in places like Diego Garcia, Okinawa, Guam, Alaska, etc. to guard — and if necessary defend — our freedom. They also serve who only stand and wait.

    “They and their families deserve our utmost support and respect at this critical holiday time. They need our support, not this rediculous political posturing! And they need it now!”

    The problem with this little speech is that you wingnuts have chosen to define “supporting the troops” as (1) voting for Bush, and (2) being in favor of Bush’s misguided and mishandled military adventure in Iraq, and (3) not questioning the corruption of an administration that’s too cheap to buy body or vehicle armor for our fighting troops but pays Halliburten $99 for a case of Coca-Cola without batting an eye.

    Okay, GS, here’s the deal. We all support the troops, but some of us don’t support this misguided and mishandled war — a war we can no longer win because you stupid fuckups pissed off the Iraqi populace we ostensibly saved from an evil dictator by arresting and torturing innocent Iraqi civilians, i.e., by behaving like an evil foreign invader. So now, surprise-surprise, the Iraqi people are united in their determination to throw the foreign invader out of their country.

    But you rightwing liars go around saying, “If you don’t support the war, you’re against the troops,” and some gullible people believe you. This vicious smear has divided America. It has turned Americans against Americans. It has created hatreds between our own people in our own country — and you rightwing fuckers are 100% responsible for this. So you can take your preachy crap about “they need our suppor” and shove it up your lying, unpatriotic, America-hating ass!

    Now here’s my Merry Christmas Wish List:

    1) That Republicans would stop attacking people and start discussing issues;
    2) That Republicans would stop attacking anyone who disagrees with them and have a reasonable conversation with the rest of us about what is best for the country we all share;
    3) That Republicans would stop dividing our country by slandering their fellow Americans as “unpatriotic;”
    4) That Republicans would stop telling vicious lies like Democrats don’t support the troops, or Democrats are trying to keep military personnel from voting, etc. ad naus., in order to gain a partisan advantage;
    5) That Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Frist, and Hastert would resign and turn over the government to Democrats, so we can straighten out the goddam mess their incompetence and corruption has created in Iraq, Afghanistan, the war on terror, and in our own country.

  125. 149

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    I have to disagree about the drug companies sgm… they spend BILLIONS on research and very few of the drugs they investigate get to market… then they are cloned as generics. Also they spend a fortune GIVING away drugs to people underinsured and/or uninsured.

    We saw what happened to the oil companies… no new exploration, no new refineries and as soon as there’s an oil crunch everybody whines, ‘there;s no oil’.

    The same thing will happen to the pharmaceutical industry… how many new drugs and therapies come from places OTHER than American drug companies?

  126. 150

    headless lucy spews:

    re 222: Let’s privatize love. Do you know what they call that? Not all human endeavors are best consummated under the rubric of a business model.

  127. 151

    sgmmac spews:

    Roger,

    The military are the guardposts for our freedom. The freedom to dissent is clearly in the constitution, that all military raise their right hand and swear to defend, which I am sure you know because you have been there and done that!

    The media is supposed to be our check on our systems. They are the ones who are supposed to bring the truth to the people. The main stream media stopped doing that a long time ago. Blogs are picking up the slack. The Republicans don’t have a monopoly on corruption, greed and dirty politics. The Democrats have an equal share in it. It’s hard to have a dialog when you are being called a bastard and a moron, and everything else under the Sun!

  128. 152

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Not all human endeavors are best consummated under the rubric of a business model. -Comment by headless lucy— 11/25/05 @ 11:15 pm

    You are absolutely right… parks and mail service are great examples of what the government can get right.

    But when they repeatedly FAIL to get something right, such as in the case of prisons and education, it’s time to give proven business models a chance.

    Profit is a great motivator to get things right… A perfect example of that is the bonus promised (and received) by PRIVATE road building contractors after the Cali earthquake… it was in their own interest and that of their shareholders to get the job done right and ahead of the agreed upon schedule. As we see in the success of private schools… competition WORKS.

  129. 154

    headless lucy spews:

    sgmmac: Not equal, but hopefully we can get nasty enough to twist a few arms so that these pols will do the right thing. The first thing is to deny corporations the constitutional rights of actual living persons because that is a sick perversion of the original intent of the founding fathers.

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident that all Men”(not corporations)”are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable” ( not to be changed or tampered with, i.e. by the Supreme Court giving their inalienable rights to soulless corporations in 1886, who are the straw-man stand-ins of the uber rich)”rights…”

    I’m sure you get my drift.

  130. 155

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @147

    “We saw what happened to the oil companies… no new exploration, no new refineries and as soon as there’s an oil crunch everybody whines, ‘there;s no oil’.”

    Bad example, ASS. Oil companies ARE spending money on exploration — why do you think world production has risen from 74 million bpd in 1997 to 84 million bpd in 2005?

    Furthermore, U.S. refining capacity has been increasing since the mid-1990s.

  131. 157

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Reply to 145

    The U.S. has the world’s most expensive health care system, but is the only major industrialized country in which a significant percentage of the population doesn’t have access to health care, and the quality of our health care is far from the best — it’s on a par with some Third World countries. So where is all that money going? To inefficiency, duplication of services, administrative overhead, and a multiplicity of private business organizations taking huge profits off the top.

    One reason health insurance premiums have exploded in recent years is becausing health care providers are passing on the costs of nonpaying patients to paying patients, and the number of nonpaying patients keeps growing.

    But there are other reasons, the most important of which is demographics. The average American incurs 90% of his/her lifetime health care costs in the last 3 years of life. America’s population is aging, and with the baby boomers about to enter the ranks of the elderly, it was inevitable that the nation’s total bill for health care would explode upward — from about 11% of GDP 20 years ago to roughly 15% today and it’s headed for the 18-20% range. Short of a pandemic or nuclear war wiping out a large part of our over-50 population, health care will continue to consume a growing percentage of GDP as baby boomers age.

    Other factors driving higher health care costs include better (and more expensive) medical technology, treatment of diseases that used to be incurable, higher survival rates among the most severely ill and injured due to improved medical technologies and treatments, and greater societal affluence has caused people who formerly didn’t have access to the nation’s health care system to demand health care.

    Republicans are pushing “tort reform” as a solution to health care costs, but since litigation costs and legal settlements amount to less than 1/2 of 1% of the nation’s health care spending, even if “tort reform” were enacted across the country it would have a negligible effect on the cost of health care.

  132. 158

    sgmmac spews:

    Roger,

    They better tolerate it, this country was founded on it! Bush and Cheney both backed off of the stances they had two weeks ago, and they both tried to make clear that disagreement is fine.

    I have a crystal clear image in my head from the late 60’s early 70’s of watching the horrors of Vietnam on TV, most specifically the picture of the naked girl running down a road screaming after being Napalmed. The media drove the war protestors to craziness. The people put the blame on the President, his cabinet and Congress for making those decisions, and they were made in Washington. The people took it out on the poor soldiers who were drafted into the war. They returned and were beaten, spit on, and called baby killers.

  133. 159

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The solution to our health care crisis is better management of the resources already spent on health care. The fact other countries provide better quality care, for all of their citizens, at lower costs suggests that we can improve our own health care system without spending more money. In fact, it should be possible to cut overall health care spending while improving care and covering more people. There is simply too much money going to middlemen.

    Republicans love to tout private, for-profit, market-based “solutions” to everything from health care to social security. However, private insurance companies can’t deliver a health insurance policy for less than about 15% of overhead and administrative costs. The Medicare program, by contrast, has overhead and administrative costs of about 1% with 99% of Medicare taxes and premiums going to the direct provision of care services. By this measure, the private market approach is a drastic failure, and the government program approach is by far the most cost effective and economically efficient “solution.”

  134. 160

    sgmmac spews:

    I believe in Tort Reform, we have to have it. Victims need to be compensated for damages, but they don’t need millions and millions. There has to be a sensible compromise. Once upon a time we had vaccines for everyone that were affordable, and the drug companies were subsidized heavily by the feds. The subsidizes were stopped thinking competition would take care of it and drug companies got sued and left the states for countries that don’t allow lawsuits.

    I have hated drug companies ever since Thalidamide. It is a horrible drug that mangled and maimed thousands of babies. As bad as it was in the US, about 10 years later, the drug company who makes it started marketing it in South America, with the same results down there. And those executives are still walking free on this planet, and they shouldn’t be, they should be in jail!

  135. 161

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    There are, of course, other problems with the private market approach to health care delivery. Private insurers cherry-pick the population and insure those least likely to incur health costs, and dump the financial burden of the sickest and most expensive patients on government. Private insurers have a profit motive to gouge those paying premiums and refuse to pay claims of those needing health services. They also employ the cheapest labor they can find, often offshore, which results in numerous improper claim denials, overcharges, double billing, and other mistakes — and the mistakes are always in favor of the company. I have learned to fine-tooth-comb every EOB and medical billing I get — because I have found lots of mistakes and can almost count on the medical provider overcharging me, or the insurer underpaying on my bill, if I don’t call them up and question the billings and claim payments. It’s almost a full-time job to keep PRIVATE health providers and insurers from ripping me off! The worst part of getting sick is the months and endless hours and phone calls it takes to straighten out the billings and insurance payments. This system is anti-consumer and sucks big-time.

    Nobody is proposing nationalizing America’s health care — i.e., the doctors, dentists, etc. will all become government employees, and the government will own and operate all the health care providers. That is a Republican lie. What some people ARE proposing is a single-payer system in which the government acts as a financial clearinghouse. We have a somewhat similar system for retirement called Social Security — and as millions of retirees are now learning to their financial pain and sorrow — the government-run retirement program is the ONLY retirement program in this country retirees can trust! We are now being treated to the spectacle of one private sector company after another going to bankruptcy court to welsh on its pension obligations. Some private pension funds have been simply looted by greedy CEOs and boards of directors.

    Most of us work hard all our lives, are not wealthy enough to pay medical bills that can run up into tens of thousands of dollars within a few days in case of an accident or illness, and we feel that we have earned and deserve a retirement income when we can’t work anymore, and knowing that our health needs will be taken care of.

    The Republican Party has not delivered the goods! They only deliver excuses, lies, smokescreens, and inaction — while attacking the few remaining security blankets we still have left. Propaganda is not a substitute for a retirement check in the mailbox or a doctor visit or hospital stay when one is sick! The public is not stupid. They may not see through the rightwing b.s. right away, but most people eventually will figure out that the rightwing philosophy of “I’ve got mine–fuck you!” does not meet their needs. If the GOP continues on its present course of ignoring our citizens’ needs and helping corporate thieves loot the middle class, they are headed for an electoral disaster of tsunami proportions. The sad thing is the amount of damage they will inflict before the American people finally realize the neocons are their worst enemy, and a far greater threat to their well-being than any foreign terrorist organization.

  136. 162

    sgmmac spews:

    @ 156,
    I agree, I read an article today about a woman in Seattle whose health care at work wanted 200 bucks a month for her and 3 little ones, so she’s on Medicare. There is lots of fraud in it though. I really object to the 3 sex change operations that medicare paid for last year in Washington State. And viagra, forget about it! Some states were giving it to sex offenders.

  137. 163

    klake spews:

    @123

    With all due respect to our brave troops, whatever they’re fighting for in Iraq, it isn’t my freedom. Iraq was no threat to my freedom. On the other hand, the measures taken by the Bush administration allegedly in the name of freedom – suppressing dissent, spying on American citizens – are a direct threat to my freedom.

    Comment by Roger Rabbit— 11/25/05 @ 10:36 pm

    Roger the U.S. goverment have been spying ever since LBJ was president. You dumb bunny know why we are fighting in Iraq, and the crap you writing about is not the proper message. Who let headless lucy out of her cage? Wabbit you are suppose to keep her under control, you sleeping on the job again?

  138. 164

    sgmmac spews:

    @me, 155. I meant to say that they didn’t put the blame on the President, ….. The dissent for the war should have been targeted at the Administration and not the soldiers who were drafted to a war they didn’t start, as they said over and over.

  139. 165

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    157

    Tort reform is a scam. The claim that tortfeasors are being victimized by the people they’ve injured through their negligence is nonsense. What so-called “tort reform” really is, is an attempt to shift the business costs of paying for injuries caused by defective products, medical malpractice, etc. to the injured consumers in order to increase business profits. It’s a ripoff! In addition, when you immunize people from legal consequences for careless or willful behavior that may harm others, they have no incentive to be careful or refrain from dangerous behavior (such as knowingly selling dangerously defective products); and the inevitable consequence of tort immunity is that deaths and injuries will increase. Another consequence is that when consumers know they can’t sue for their medical expenses if they’re seriously injured by a drug or a product, they will refuse to take the drug or buy the product, because it’s just too risky. In addition, when a given industry asks government to protect them from being sued if they hurt us, that tells me the industry can’t be trusted and I’m not willing to have them in my community.

    The nuclear power industry is a prime example of this. There are good arguments for the U.S. increasing its use of nuclear power. The technology is much better than it was 30 years ago. However, some years ago, the nuclear power industry went to Congress and got them to pass a law capping the nuclear operator’s legal liability for a nuclear accident at $500 million. That is a deal-killer for me — I’m not willing to have a nuclear plant anywhere near where I live, because I’m not willing to lose everything I’ve spent a lifetime working for because of a plant operator’s error, with no recourse against the negligent plant operator. Until that liability cap is repealed, I will oppose any nuclear power plant construction in the state where I live. The only purpose that cap serves is to save the power companies the cost of liability insurance, so they can make more profit — i.e., they get the profit, I get the risk. Fuck them! The nuclear power industry has other problems, too. They have a track record of sloppy work, poor maintenance, hiding safety flaws, and committing outright criminal acts. In general, the nuclear power industry is led by people who have proven they don’t deserve our trust, and given what’s at stake, we as citizens can’t afford to trust them.

  140. 166

    klake spews:

    And yes, I do too! I just wanted to see the opposing views, because whether you want to believe it or not everything isn’t black or white. I do fall left of center on a few things.

    Comment by sgmmac— 11/25/05 @ 9:11 pm

    sgmmac thanks for your service to your country and watch out for that funny wabbit. Chief Lake

  141. 167

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The Republican “solution” to dangerous product, negligent behavior, and malpractice is to immunize tortfeasors from civil or criminal liability for their harmful behavior. Far from being the party of responsibility and accountability, the GOP approach is to help negligent businesses and providers shirk responsibility and evade accountability.

  142. 168

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @160

    Why does she need to “watch out for” that “funny wabbit?” Am I dangerous? No, I’m not dangerous. But perhaps you (correctly) perceive that ideas are dangerous, facts are dangerous, and calling “bullshit” on lies is dangerous to the liars … in that sense, yes, I certainly hope I’m dangerous to the Far Right, because the lies and scams of the Far Right are dangerous to the well-being of every American, including themselves.

  143. 169

    sgmmac spews:

    Rabbit,

    Trust me, I don’t want anyone immunized against responsibility.
    I just want a balance. I wouldn’t be opposed to criminal liabilities either. You have to have both. Why are the jerks who marketed Thalidimide in the US and in South American who knew beyond any doubt that the drug is dangerous not in jail? Why isn’t the FDA all over these guys? After the first Gulf War I got stationed at Fort Irwin, CA, National Training Center, the closest town is Barstow, CA. I was living in Barstow, when the lawsuit was pending over contaminated water in Lynnwood, (Erin Brockavitch). Lynnwood sits right beside Barstow in the same valley. If you want to watch a good movie, try Silkwood. Karen Silkwood died trying to expose illegal activity in some type of a nuclear plant ran by Kerr Magee in Oklahoma.

  144. 170

    JCH spews:

    181.RR, Sue all the private sector products until they go “BK” and leave!! Then the Democrat trail lawyers can sue each other.

  145. 171

    sgmmac spews:

    I am basically right, left of center on a few things, and maybe far right on a very few select things. I just read a letter to the editor in the Times that aggravates me…… The writer is overjoyed that I-901 passed and now he wants all drivers talking on cell phones banned and he threatens a stronger initiative if the legislature doesn’t pass a bill this year. It failed during the last session. So, I’m probably far right on that issue.

  146. 173

    spews:

    Conservative PAC could lead to another State Senate loss for GOP
    Other bloggers have rightly pointed out the danger that lies in a new conservative PAC that’s targeting the Supreme Court (IF you missed the P-I article on it, click here).   But what the article also forshadows is another opportunity for progres…

  147. 174

    Mr. X spews:

    #

    You know as well as I do dumb bunny that the 45 million “uninsured” you nutburgers like to trot out and whine about is made up largly og ILLEGAL immigrants and healthy young adults who CHOOSE to spend their money on things other than insurance.

    My son and his law school pals were prime example of healthy young males who saw and continue to see no reason to spend on health insurance for the occasional case of the sniffles.

    Comment by HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS — 11/25/05 @ 10:39 pm

    Wow, ass, you really topped yourself on the old dumb-o-meter with this post.

    As someone who went from paying $35 a month on Washington Basic Health to $200+ when I got lucky enough to get on my significant other’s work insurance, I would heartily urge you to go fuck yourself – and I hope your insurance doesn’t cover the syphillis you give yourself in the process.

    Douchebag…