Tim Rossi… um, Dino Eyman… (well, you get the point)

I’ve already documented the close connections between Dino Rossi and the Building Industry Association of Washington (BIAW). In addition to spending $750,000 on Rossi’s election, the BIAW has also led the legal and PR effort in pushing for a new election, dedicating its entire staff of 30 to scouring the voting lists for hint of scandal.

Now activist website and longtime Tim Eyman nemesis Permanent Defense reveals the close political alliance between Rossi and our state’s most prolific initiative-peddler. [Tim Eyman and Dino Rossi: Friends and Allies]

Washington State GOP gubernatorial candidate Dino Rossi likes to promote himself as a sunny moderate who will bring prosperity back to Washington State.

But what most people don’t know about Dino Rossi is his extremist positions – including his ties to initiative profiteer Tim Eyman, as well as his similarity to previous GOP candidates John Carlson (2000) and Ellen Craswell (1996).

Permanent Defense cites a string of quotes from both Eyman and Rossi attesting to their support for each other.

Surprise.

It’s hard to blame Rossi for attempting to recast himself as a moderate in the wake of Carlson’s and Craswell’s right-wing electoral debacles. But gullible voters who deserve blame for believing it.

Comments

  1. 1

    zip spews:

    What a smear job that link is. So Eyman supports Rossi, now that means Rossi is Craswell reborn? Give me a break. If you disagree with Rossi’s positions, fine. But smear jobs like this are pure BS.

  2. 2

    Goldy spews:

    A smear job?

    The page provides actual quotes by Rossi and Eyman, and actual links to their sources. Readers can follow the links and draw their own conclusions. How is that a smear job?

  3. 3

    Mount Olympus Hiker spews:

    Zip, they’re actual quotes from both Eyman and Rossi. Sources are duly noted. It’s what they said. You think that’s a smear job? Well, if you want to go and be in denial, fine. But that is the truth.

  4. 4

    Rossi's Best Friend spews:

    Hey!
    Rossi and me are best Buds.. I’m against affirmative action too. And I think our priority in transportation should be hiways. And I supported Rossi from day one. Gee.. I must be a class act just like Rossi. Cool.

    On the down side, I must be slimy like Eyeman too… damn.. I thought I didn’t like him, guess I was wrong. So if I don’t want to be friends with Eyeman I better just disagree with every position he holds???

  5. 5

    Peter spews:

    WHY IS IT A SMEAR JOB TO LINK ROSSI TO THE LONG TERM FAR RIGHT AGENDA AND PERSONALITY OF THE R PARTY IN THIS STATE. FACTS ARE FACTS.

    LOTS OF PR AND OUTRIGHT LIES AND PROPAGANDA DO NOT CHANGE THAT. THE CLOAK AND COVER CAMPAIGN- NO POSITIONS- “I’ NOT RUNNING ON THAT ISSUE”- ROSI SAID THAT OVER AND OVER TO DODGE QUESTIONS.

    ROSSI IS A FAR RIGHT WINGER. WHAT IS THE NEWS? AND HE WILL HAVE NO FUTURE IN THIS STATE. HE IS ON HIS WAY TO DC, SO THAT VANCE CAN RUN FOR THE SENATE.

  6. 6

    Rossi's Best Friend spews:

    News Flash !!!!!

    Goldy supports BIAW!!! They are allies and friends!!! See his very own quote:

    “… the BIAW and others deserve credit for efficiently managing their pools.”

    Now, if we can get our knees to stop jerking, we are all smart enough to see that things aren’t black and white and just because you don’t automatically reject every aspect of every opinion someone gives that doesn’t mean you are “friends” or “allies”.

    If you support this kind of guilt by association it just says a lot about you.

  7. 7

    bmvaughn spews:

    That article is a total smear job by The Northwest Progressive Institute. The NPI is lead by the same blogger who does Daily Kos, who is known to have taken campaign donations to paint a picture of Howard Dean…. f***ing disgusting that you’d even reference this tripe, Goldy. Of course the BIAW supports Rossi… but the Eyman/Rossi ‘Connection’ is just smear.

  8. 8

    jcricket spews:

    The guy who runs Daily Kos (Markos) disclosed his financial relationship to Dean prominently on his web site while he was working for Dean. And Markos never pretended that he wasn’t a Dean supporter. Jerome of MyDD also worked for Dean. During those months when Jerome worked for Dean, he shut down his blog. Not the same thing. Not even close.

    Besides, it’s only a smear if you admit that Rossi’s trying to pull a fast one and avoid showing his real allies. Rossi’s no moderate – he knows very well that Eyman an anti-government extremist who wants to defund the state. As a politician, publicly associating yourself with Tim Eyman is tantamount to approving of him.

    You want a smear job? How about the fake pictures Republicans peddled of Kerry and Jane Fonda? Or the discredited claims of Ted Sampley? Or the vitriol heaped on Democrats for a user-submitted (and quickly removed) entry in a third-party PAC advertisement contest? Or the constant demands that Democrats denounce Michael Moore even if they’ve never talked to him?

    Republicans have mastered the art of pushing the most disgusting, bigoted “negative attacks” through their surrogates (Drudge, Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Ann Coulter). And then when they get called on it they either drum up some false equivalency or try to play the whole “guilt by association is unfair” card. Or, when one of their own crosses the line and says something “beyond the pale” they cry censorship or “political correctness”.

    Wah, wah, wah. Republicans are such babies.

  9. 9

    www.felonsfordino.com spews:

    When are the democrats going to start an ad campaign like Patty Murray’s:

    “Dino Rossi – too extreme for Washington”

    I’d be happy to donate to that…

  10. 10

    Richard Pope spews:

    Didn’t the state Democrats already post something like that on their website? They had a http://www.rossirecord.com website, with lots of things attacking Rossi. Probably too many things to be really effective.

    I would note that the MVET elimination of I-695 was approved by overwhelming majorities of state legislators after the initiative was initially struck down by the state supreme court. Senate 39 to 9. House 85 to 13. Every Republican legislator, and a sizeable majority of Democrat legislators, voted to repeal the MVET.

    I am not exactly sure what the value of attacking Rossi’s alleged political positions is at this time. He does not hold any public office and isn’t currently running for anything. It should not affect the court’s decision on the election contest in any way. The only political fact that relates to the legal issues is that Rossi and Gregoire got roughly equal numbers of votes.

    In fact, attacking Rossi at this time is counterproductive. The message to Rossi supporters (close to half the electorate) would be that they should support whatever initiative Tim Eyman might propose, since the person they voted for is being vehemently attacked for some tenuous association with Eyman. I am not sure how this attack on Rossi (especially months after the election) is going to persuade Gregoire voters not to support Eyman’s initiatives. Most probably wouldn’t anyway, but enough do so that Eyman’s initiatives pass more often than not.

    Of course, if you feel the only way that your organization can thrive is if Tim Eyman is there to fight against, your strategy makes perfect sense. If Rossi supporters can be goaded into backing Eyman this year, then an Eyman initiative has a much better chance of making it on the ballot. Then you can have something to complain about this spring, summer, and fall.

  11. 11

    Jenny spews:

    The point of doing this was obviously to show that Rossi was an extremist, like Eyman. It isn’t going to help Eyman, who, despite what some people think, faces huge financial and signature hurdles to qualify his next initiative.

  12. 13

    Goldy spews:

    That article is a total smear job by The Northwest Progressive Institute. The NPI is lead by the same blogger who does Daily Kos,

    BM… see, the problem with posting incredibly stupid, totally bogus claims like that is that it tends to make you look incredibly stupid and totally bogus.

    Northwest Progressive Institute and Permanent Defense are indeed run by the same person: Andrew Villeneuve… a senior at Redmond High School. I’m sure he’ll have a good laugh when I tell him he is now the famous kos.

  13. 14

    Erik spews:

    The article is good. However, Rossi got a free ride this election because he refused to answer questions on abortion and his ties to the religious right. Had his positions been better know, he would have not received many more votes than Craswell who was at least forthright in her positions:

    http://www.wa-democrats.org/si.....mpare.html

  14. 15

    reggie spews:

    He said she said crap.

    chrissy made a lot of statements during the campaign that are just flat out bullshit. Now you are going to jump all over Rossi because he refused to answer some questions that have NO BEARING on how he would run the state…gimme a break.

    If we want to accuse someone of guilt by association wasn’t chrissy in some racist club in college? (hey blame that one on Ron Sims…at least chrissy did)

  15. 16

    Peter spews:

    bmvaught – just smear? Engage your common sense. Tim has always been a R – he endorsed Rossi – Rossi endorsed his trash initiatives……

    Most of his, Timmie’s, support comes from Red counties. He emailed his list for Rosssi. What is an illusion in this relationship, only question to the worldly is did Timmie give him a special watch for
    Christmas.

    How dumb/gullible/led by the nose – can some people be?

  16. 17

    Peter spews:

    AVOIDING ISSUES-THE EXPERT —In each of the THREE debates I watched, Rossi would not comment on any of the ititiatives. ” I am not discussing these pro or con”….nada.

    Then, in the same debates he would not talk about some issues, ” I am not taking a position on that, I am not running on that issue”….nada

    Some of the strangest stuff I have ever monitored. AND the mainstream media let it slide. He must really be charming close up…..and or soft coverage reflected editorial support. They really cut him slack.

    But that was a one time ride. The mask is off, right wing running his life, their hero.

  17. 18

    bby spews:

    Reggie – how many mistakes do we all make just out of high school? Thirty years ago. From what I know, Gregoire has only the best credentials on minority issues in her real time political career.

    Do you have something just a little more contemporary to bring to our attention?

    Possible that who episode backfired on Ron. I love the guy, voted for him in the primary, and many other elections, would like to make him president. The election mess in King has put a cloud over his political future in my opinion. Too bad.

  18. 19

    Josef the Dinocrat spews:

    The point of doing this was obviously to show that Rossi was an extremist, like Eyman. It isn’t going to help Eyman, who, despite what some people think, faces huge financial and signature hurdles to qualify his next initiative.

    Comment by Jenny — 1/22/05 @ 3:39 pm

    Folks, there’s NO smoking gun there – just a bunch of nuances saying that MAYBE, MAYBE there’s a connection. This is a smear job by my desperate colleagues at P.D. trying to shut me up.

    If you’re smart, you’d call 425.646.7202 and ask for Mary Lane for a statement. Her e-mail, if you must know is Mary AT DinoRossi DOT com. I encourage you all to ask for a response if you REALLY believe this BS.

  19. 21

    reggie spews:

    the point was that you can’t smear someone because of who they know. I knew Charles Campbell that doesn’t make me a murder anymore than Chrissy is a racist or Dino is Eyman’s boy.

  20. 22

    Mount Olympus Hiker spews:

    It’s not a smear job – Josef is out of his mind. In fact, he’s in la la land floating away on a cloud with his idol, Dino Rossi, an environmentalist who hates Tim Eyman and will clean out our state’s government with his magic wand. Government waste will be a thing of the past with Gov. Dino Rossi. Budget crises will be easily fixed and we won’t have to increase our taxes again – EVER. That’s right – government will just pay for itself! Rossi will plant money trees in Olympia so that we can eliminate property taxes. After all, that’s what he wanted to do a few years ago: phase out state property taxes. With his astounding leadership, Gov. Rossi will force Tim Eyman to flee to Oregon and join Bill Sizemore! Plus, with Gov. Rossi, Washington will become the nationwide leader in environmental protection? Why? Because our Gov. sits on the board of the Nature Conservancy!

    Keep dreaming, Josef. If you dream hard enough, maybe you can move into that fantasy world of yours for good.

  21. 24

    Mount Olympus Hiker spews:

    Richard, nobody is denying that Permanent Defense is not a division of NPI – their website clearly says it is.

    However, it seems that what Jenny was saying was: Permanent Defense built this report, and published it. If NPI had created the report, it would have been on their website.

    The two organizations have the same leader, but they have different memberships. They aren’t just the same thing.

  22. 25

    Mount Olympus Hiker spews:

    Additionally – Permanent Defense was founded in February of 2002 and NPI was founded in August 2003.

    They aren’t fronts for each other. Permanent Defense has a narrower focus than NPI does: Washington politics, more specifically fighting Eyman and working for tax reform.

    NPI concentrates more on national politics and broader issues. It has a broader focus. It must have seemed like a natural idea to the founder to place Permanent Defense as a division of the newly formed NPI back when he formed it. It would be useful for both organizations to have a relationship. And it seems it has.

  23. 26

    bby spews:

    The alliance between Rossi and Eyeman is a natural fit.

    Cause Olympia problems, savior Rossi is the Mr. Fixer.

  24. 27

    Jaime spews:

    Mr. Pope you seem like a pretty sharp gentleman, I’m surprised you don’ see the purpose behind Goldy’s post. Clearly the Dems have to take out some insurance in case a “revote” is eventually ordered. The odds may be low that it will happen, but one must be prepared. As part of this strategy look for Goldy and the Dems to find common cause with the Libertarians as their voters would be crucial in a “revote.”

  25. 28

    Josef the Dinocrat spews:

    As I have wild fantasies about my idol Mary “Marummy” Lane and wait for my favorite spy show, let me in my UN-medicated state reply to you:

    Dino Rossi, an environmentalist who hates Tim Eyman and will clean out our state’s government with his magic wand.
    PLEASE. I think the guy may like him, but will be stopped from trusting this guy.

    *“Government waste will be a thing of the past with Gov. Dino Rossi.”
    I think the State gov’t is going to have its you-know-what handed to it by this guy, Thank God Almighty!

    “Budget crises will be easily fixed and we won’t have to increase our taxes again – EVER. That’s right – government will just pay for itself! Rossi will plant money trees in Olympia so that we can eliminate property taxes.”
    Yeah, and I scratch me 5X a day w/ the latest Marummy pin-up. COME-ON!!!

    “After all, that’s what he wanted to do a few years ago: phase out state property taxes.”
    Good idea he had during GOOD economic times and never-ending surpluses. Now, he wants to wait.

    With his astounding leadership, Gov. Rossi will force Tim Eyman to flee to Oregon and join Bill Sizemore!
    IN JAIL. Barring that, Eyman = Sizemore.

    Plus, with Gov. Rossi, Washington will become the nationwide leader in environmental protection? Why? Because our Gov. sits on the board of the Nature Conservancy!
    Are you Kristin Brost’s boyfriend or the Marummy wanna-be herself? More seriously, I do believe envrionmental laws will be with caution streamlined! The ‘with caution’ is from his service on said environmental boards.

  26. 30

    G Davis spews:

    Jaime…why would the Libs not support their own candidate? Afterall, if there’s to be a revote, it should be a real revote, not some cocksure madeup reelection…

    Eyman and Rossi? Doesn’t surprise me that Eyman would try to catch hold of the Reps coattails as his ship is sinking fast…the guy’s a crook and a liar…

    Rossi also needed all the support he could get to hope to stand a chance in as blue a state as Washington is. So why wouldn’t he use the standard Rep ploy of identifying himself with even the most extreme groups knowing full well if he got elected he’d ignore them. The Reps do it all the time…use the Christian extreme right to get into office and within days announce you’ll not fight for their extreme stances…

    It’s extreme politics and these two are natural bedfellows…

    Good work in drawing the quotes out…thank you. More should be known about this slick fella Rossi and his real stances on issues…if he has any that is and isn’t just a pretty face Rep front man.

  27. 31

    zip spews:

    To all you deluded lefties who believe this smear job helps your cause:

    Remember the Osama tape right before the election? The logic shown by Goldy in posting this smear job could be extended to…..”Osama Kerry… um, John Bin Laden… (well, you get the point).”

    This is the kind of garbage that proves a point to many Rossi supporters. That point is: don’t bother supporting a group like Permanent Defense or even believing any of their press releases, because they actually are just one more front group for the Democrats that run this state. Goldy, thank you for posting this. I learned how to read the secret code in the Permanent Defense mission statement. I reprinted it below for those who didn’t notice it:

    Permanent Defense is an nonprofit organization founded to fight Tim Eyman and his anti-tax initiatives, work for real tax reform in Washington State, and promote the value of public services.

    (The part about promoting the value of public services is the secret code that means they’re partisan hacks in the pocket of the government employee unions and will do or say anything to keep the Democrats in power in this state.)

    All Permanent Defense did here was lose credibility with the segment of the public that is pro-Rossi (based on what he has done in the Senate) and anti-Eyman (based on what a sleaze he is). Just because Eyman vigorously supported Rossi does not demean Rossi. And just because Rossi supported several initiatives that the Democrats running this state did not support does not mean he is Craswell reborn.

  28. 32

    zip spews:

    http://www.seattleweekly.com/f.....donkey.php
    “On the campaign trail, most every reporter will tell you that Gregoire pledged, like Rossi, not to raise taxes. Now state House Appropriations Chair Sommers says the new governor has already agreed to find new revenues. Gregoire told The Seattle Times shortly after being certified as governor, “I never really said, ‘no taxes.’” Once again, Gregoire is sounding like she did on the campaign trail—more of a lawyer than a leader”.
    Seems equivalent to Eyman’s lie about his use of funds to me.

    Another equivalency Permanent Hacknest didn’t mention:
    Eyman: more of a liar than a leader.
    Gregoire: more of a lawyer than a leader.

    Almost an exact match. There you have it, Gregoire has “ties to initiative profiteer Tim Eyman”.

  29. 33

    Jaime spews:

    GD, I would imagine that the truly committed Libertarians would again vote for their candidate in a “revote.” However, a “revote” isn’t simply everybody showing up at the polls and casting the same vote they cast last time, thus the posturing by both sides hoping to shift votes. Some Libertarians now knowing the value of their vote would then be in a position to determine the outcome.

    One thing the Republican “revote” crowd seems to overlook in their zeal to claim to be the protectors the overseas military voters, is that in a “revote” the overseas military voters would be less likely to vote again. They voted in November because they were more concerned who would be their President and Commander in Chief.

  30. 35

    zip spews:

    Did Eyeman give $$$$ to Dino?

    What the blue blazes difference would it make? Did any WTO anarchist vandal criminals give money to Big Chris?

  31. 36

    G Davis spews:

    Jaime…if I know my Libs, they are likely throwing their hands in the air at all the nonsense surrounding this whole mess and would be more likely to vote their candidate than ever…or not vote at all…

    I agree about the military vote though…not to mention the revote/redo/reelection/mulligan crowd is not taking into consideration the shifting voter base. What about people that died between 11/2 and the new one? Moved? Went to jail? Got out of jail?

    And what do we do if a new election is just as close as this one? Go through the whole incredibly costly process yet again?

    Silly.

    zip…I believe the Rep zealots posting here are the only ones indicating an Eyman/Rossi issue is 1) a smear job and 2) being done to *help* anyone.

    It is what it is. To try to convolute it smacks of protesting too loudly.

    Just a thought. ;0

  32. 37

    Josef the Dinocrat spews:

    Zip, before I post an A-MEN, as the Research Director of this group I gotta chew on ya for a bit as to,

    “Permanent Defense is an nonprofit organization founded to fight Tim Eyman and his anti-tax initiatives, work for real tax reform in Washington State, and promote the value of public services.

    (The part about promoting the value of public services is the secret code that means they’re partisan hacks in the pocket of the government employee unions and will do or say anything to keep the Democrats in power in this state.)”

    WRONG. ALL OF PD wants LIE-MAN gone, PD members want a tax code that works and help explain to people what their taxdollars buy them. Personally, I want accountability w/ that tax money, too. Hence me being a Dinocrat.

    That said:

    All Permanent Defense did here was lose credibility with the segment of the public that is pro-Rossi (based on what he has done in the Senate) and anti-Eyman (based on what a sleaze he is). Just because Eyman vigorously supported Rossi does not demean Rossi. And just because Rossi supported several initiatives that the Democrats running this state did not support does not mean he is Craswell reborn.

    Well said. A-MEN. But please realize that I support his campaign because of what he’s AGAINST than what he is FOR. And I will stand w/ PD on tax reform – go see http://josef-a-k.blogspot.com/.....r-all.html for what I say and the tone.

  33. 38

    zip spews:

    Josef, After reading this “article” of theirs, I have the impression that they support anything the Democrats running this state tell them to support. It is a serious blow to their credibility.

    PD’s conversion to the WA Democrat “power at any price” cause could not have come at a worse time. As I have stated many a time, this recount fiasco has undermined people’s trust in state government which aids Eyman. If he comes up with a catchy initiative and doesn’t hook up with casinos he has a better shot now than he did before all this.

  34. 39

    zip spews:

    the Rep zealots posting here are the only ones indicating an Eyman/Rossi issue is 1) a smear job and 2) being done to *help* anyone

    Comment by G Davis— 1/22/05 @ 11:50 pm

    I didn’t actually expect the Dem zealots to agree with me. That whole article boggled my mind more than most of the partisan ranting I’ve seen on this site, because being pro-Rossi and anti-Eyman are not mutually exclusive attitudes. Permanent Defense must have known this, but either didn’t care or ??. I have no idea what their motives were but continue to believe, after re-reading it including all links, that the article is such a blatant smear job that it could easily have been written by Berendt himself.

  35. 40

    zip spews:

    Josef, PD has a serious credibility problem here. Too bad because Eyman will probably use the public distrust of the state resultant from this election to pull off a resurgence if he can get his act together.

  36. 41

    Josef the Dinocrat spews:

    Comment by zip— 1/23/05 @ 12:23 am

    Oh, it’s duly noted.

    But I have all the confidence in the world between me, PD and Marummy we’ll stop Eymanism in it’s tracks A-GAIN w/ a new gubernatorial general election (a.k.a. revote) and w/ strong leadership…

  37. 42

    Dave spews:

    Thank God Rossi wasn’t elected and is currently killing his chance at a future position. Having Eyeman screw the state over is bad enough already! Imagine how much more damage he could do with a patsy yes-man as governor. Yikes.

    Thanks for posting this, Goldy!

  38. 43

    jim p spews:

    Joseph the dentocrat said: If you’re smart, you’d call 425.646.7202 and ask for Mary Lane for a statement. Her e-mail, if you must know is Mary AT DinoRossi DOT com. I encourage you all to ask for a response if you REALLY believe this BS.

    I am sure that anyone would get a real unbiased answer from that gal. You keep fantasizing about her and you will wake up a mess.

  39. 44

    jim p spews:

    bby said: Cause Olympia problems, savior Rossi is the Mr. Fixer.
    I agree with you, he would make a great mr fixit on the maytag commercials, nothing more. going, going gone is the career of your “mr fixit”

  40. 45

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Christine Gregoire told us this election was “a model to the rest of the nation and the world at large”? Really Chris?
    Read today’s Seattle Times and P-I
    The Seattle Times has 129 felons in just King and Pierce Co. plus liklihood of dozens more.
    And the King County voter registration folks mailed out thousands of unnecessary duplicate ballots and had a plethora of internal control problems that violated THEIR OWN POLICIES!!

    Clearly there are thousands and thousands of extra, unaccounted for physical ballots that were issues. And now it appears there are 3700 voterless votes in KingCo….and counting.
    Let’s see now, thousands of extra physical ballots issued and unaccounted for PLUS 3700 voterless votes===BALLOTBoX STUFFING!

    Keep spinning Goldy–
    But Gregoire will choke on her words that “this election was a model for the rest of the nation and the world at large”.
    Can’t wait for the depositions to start!!

  41. 46

    Nelson spews:

    To Mr. Cynical –

    Yawn! If it keeps making you feel better to spin this tired old refrain, keep on doing it. The GOP acknowledges that this whole election contest is over. There will, however, be a re-vote, but it will not occur until Nov. 2008.

    The Times story is of no importance. What is of more importance indicating that the Rossi election contest is DOA was the filing Friday night of a contest in the Legislature — which of course is a joke since it’s totally controlled by Democrats. This tells everyone that the court case is a lost cause.

  42. 47

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Nelson–
    “The GOP acknowledges that this whole election contest is over.”
    Really????
    Where did you get that one from????

    “The Times story is of no importance”.
    Really???

    The Dems are so deep into the trap of “minimizing” and “marginalizing” anything & everything that is brought out about the gross incompetence of this election it’s humorous.

    More votes than voters is not “spin” Nelson…it’s a fact.
    And gross incompetence in KingCo Elections is not “spin” either…just look at the documentation.

    Hey, I’m not holding my breath trying to convince Dem. “spinmeisters” like Nelson, jcricket etc. of the gross incompetence and illegal votes & acts…that’s up to the Courts to decide. But I do believe the public will look at the facts when the revote comes about…and they will not vote for the head-in-the-sand or wherever else their heads may dwell Democratic Party which according to the Queen Bee:
    “This election is a model to the rest of the nation and the world at large”. MODEL???
    The new Dem Party animal ought to be the OSTRICH!

    The R’s can only hope the D’s continue on their futile campaign of marginalizing and minimizing the facts brought out.

  43. 48

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Remember my fine little pinheaded Lefty friends:
    Thousands and thousands of extra physical ballots issued by King Co. Elections (including thousands never even requested) PLUS
    3700 more votes than voters============

    BALLOTBOX STUFFING!!!

  44. 49

    G Davis spews:

    Isn’t the point here that the courts need to decide if a new election would be more fair? If the same system, with all it’s warts, is still in place with the new election, why would any of the warts be different?

    I haven’t seen or heard anyone dispute our election systems are completely screwed up…here and nationally. But the warts don’t usually get the focus since the races are rarely this close.

    I also haven’t seen or heard any credible evidence that a new election would prove anything other than we have an incredibly divided electorate and an incredibly flawed voting system in place.

    So please, explain to me again what a very expensive mulligan race would do to clarify the situation?

  45. 50

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    G Davis–
    The point of this Court case is to decide whether or not there are errors, wrongful acts, omissions etc. to put the outcome in doubt. It is about setting aside this election.

    Your point will be debated AFTER they set the election aside and try to decide what to do next.

  46. 51

    G Davis spews:

    No Cynical, that’s the Rep PR line about what this case is about.

    It’s really about election law. It’s really about whether there was gross misdoings, not cumulative human error and dysfunctional elections systems in a razor thin race.

    It’s about whether someone tried to fix this election.

    There is no evidence that points to fraud.

    And the outcome would be no less in dispute under any new election. The flaws in the system still remain, the voters are still dumber than rocks and the poll workers are still human.

    The citizens of the state would be far better off if the Reps would put all this energy into a voting system that is uniform, verifiable, transparent and easily accessible.

    Instead, they and their mouthpieces are huffing on, planting unsubstantiated news bits, whipping up a frenzy in order to garner themselves another belt notch election without regard to the rest of the citizens. Remember, this race was essentially a tie so as many voters are happy with the result as those unhappy not to mention the thousands that voted for neither major party.

    To bad so many are sucked so far into their hype.

    My point will be debated now as it’s the crux of the issue. The courts will be charged with finding not only was fraud committed but also if there’s plausibility in the idea that any redo would result in anything else than the first election.

    With the system as it is, there can be no clarity with an electorate as evenly divided as it is.

  47. 52

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    G Davis–
    We can agree to disagree..
    Nowhere is FRAUD the standard to contest…even Goldy has attested to that..repeatedly.

    And how would anyone know if “any redo would result in anything else than the first election”?

    If all ballots counted are required to have voters names…how could anyone feel assured that Gregoire would still win.

    No Sir–Fraud is not the standard errors, neglect, omissions and other WRONGFUL ACTS is. FRAUD is certainly a wrongful act…but so is illegally enhancing ballots. And these Election Officials have certainly admitted to many erros & neglect.

    It’s probably a good thing we aren’t the Judge, isn’t it G Davis. We’ve both made up our minds before we have seen all the evidence!

    By the way G Davis, where is all the shenanigans the Dems have uncovered? Why are they holding back? I think it’s because they are afraid if they try to counter the R’s, they may end up adding to their own demise.
    The Judge isn’t going to just presume what went on in KINGCO went on equally thru out the state G Davis. The Dems are going to have to offer specific, hard evidence. Where is it?

  48. 53

    Josef the Dinocrat spews:

    Comment by jim p— 1/23/05 @ 7:46 am

    The point: She’s his brains and mouth. And it’s respectfully HER job to defend the Gov’r-ELECT/Former State Senator Dino Rossi.

    That said, I think you ALL are right to ask questions and demand answers on this. . .

  49. 54

    Josef the Dinocrat spews:

    Let me add a bit more to that:

    All Permanent Defense did here was lose credibility with the segment of the public that is pro-Rossi (based on what he has done in the Senate) and anti-Eyman (based on what a sleaze he is). Just because Eyman vigorously supported Rossi does not demean Rossi. And just because Rossi supported several initiatives that the Democrats running this state did not support does not mean he is Craswell reborn.

    Well said. A-MEN. But please realize that I support his campaign because of what he’s AGAINST than what he is FOR. . . .
    Comment by Josef the Dinocrat— 1/22/05 @ 11:51 pm

  50. 55

    G Davis spews:

    Cynical, the broader point the court must consider is whether the elements are in place to warrant a redo.

    You can rant and rave all you want about *wrongful acts*, but unless the petitioner can definatively show the result would be different in a new election, there is no remedy the court can offer.

    And with the same system in place using the same dumb voters and same election workers, the court will see that all a redo would do is produce more anxiety statewide. No matter who wins. Do try to remember there is half the state that would be in turmoil if CG is ousted.

    Losing cause.

  51. 56

    zip spews:

    G Davis, It seems to me that the judge may use the track record of the 2 recounts as evidence that removing several thousand votes from the King County totals would change the result. The votes that were added during the recounts changed the result, vice versa if illegal votes are removed. Does the judge not have to look at a “more probable than not” scenario?

  52. 58

    G Davis spews:

    Zip-The court can’t look at KC in a vacuum…the entire state must be in play, especially considering the Reps named all the counties in their suit.

    Is there a listing somewhere of all the proported irregularities statewide, and if so, is there disproportionate evidence that KC alone outdid all the other counties put together?

    Do these statewide *wrongful acts* out pace the margin of historical percentage of election error?

    Barring evidence of which irregular votes went to which candidate can the court base it’s decisions on anything other than regular vote trends in all the counties?

    Don’t existing state election laws allow for the counts and recounts that took place, as well as the current court contest, for the very reason that human error needs to be taken ever more closely into account?

    Aren’t the Reps asking the court to throw the state into a condition of flux without governance until a new election/redo/revote/mulligan can be accomplished. And what do we do if after those months of flux a new election is conducted that comes out as close as this one? Do we then do it again?

    I simply don’t see how the court could manage a decision to throw the last election out until there is some remedy for the existing election system.

    Fix the system and quit spending my taxdollars on this folly.

  53. 59

    Goldy spews:

    Reggie, thanks for the link to Kate Riley’s column. I think that may be worthy of a blog entry on its own.

  54. 60

    Jim King spews:

    Goldy- The small business folk I work with have fought Eyman from day one- long before you entered the fray. Dino has always supported us. Your smear of Dino is most unfortunate.

    BBY- Gregoire was NOT fresh out of high school when as PRESIDENT of her racist sorority SHE denied entry to blacks and Jews. She has NEVER disavowed her actions, but chose to cover them up, making all kinds of fake claims, and then blaming Ron Sims (who had nothing to do with the story). Watch for the pictures of Chrissie in her white pinty-headed sorority robe during the next campaign.

  55. 62

    Goldy spews:

    Jim… “small business folk oppose Eyman”… “Rossi supports small business” therefore “Rossi opposes Eyman.” Nice logic.

    And it’s not a smear… it’s a collection of cited quotes by Tim and Dino stating their support for each other. People can click the links and see the context for themselves.

    You know, the Rossi campaign tells me my effort to link Rossi and the BIAW is dishonest. But come on… the BIAW admits to spending $750,000 on Rossi’s behalf before the election. The BIAW admits to dedicating its 30-person staff to the revote effort, and has been funding the paid media. And Rossi clearly supports the BIAW on many issues.

    But I guess there is no connection between Rossi and the BIAW in the same way there is no connection to Rossi and Eyman, right?

    How convenient.

  56. 63

    Jim King spews:

    Goldy:

    Gee- I find myself lined up with BIAW more often than not, so I’m obviously in their pocket… such is the logic being used.

    If you are going to throw away the credibility you’d been building by just being another hatchet in the Democratic machine, that’s your choice. The average REpublican legislator in Olympia despises Eyman, but it is as difficult for them to take on their own grassroots as it is for Democratic legislators to be candid about some of their base.

    The most telling quotes about Dino Rossi are those made by liberal Democratic legislators after having worked with him.

    It is a shame you and your colleagues find it more useful to play up the inflammatory angle, rather than put into the public view some of the material that might actually encourage bipartisan cooperation on tackling the issues of the state.

    But bipartisanship is a phony concept nowadays in Olympia. Talk of class warfare seems to be the approach de jour…

    Too bad.

  57. 64

    Goldy spews:

    Jim… the BIAW is not spending millions electing you governor. But they are spending the money on Rossi, and I think it fair to point that out.

    Look… I’m not a legislator. I’m not an elected official. I’m not a party official. I’m not a mainstream journalist. In my capacity on HorsesAss.org, I am a blogger… and an unabashedly liberal one at that. Look at the rhetoric coming from the other side… the lies, the distortions, hate-mongering, the unsubstantiated rumors. And I should be taken to task for pointing to a page that cites links to quotes from Tim and Dino that show their support for each other?

    That’s a double-standard that I refuse to live by.