So we’ve captured a cold-blooded killer with ties to an organization with a history of terrorism who now says that there are a number of other active plots around the country. When do we start waterboarding Scott Roeder?
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Good point. If the security conservatives really felt it wasn’t torture, they should be pushing for it. Go all Jack Bower 24 on him. Or is it because he’s NOT muslim?
In the last 45 years, only 7 abortion doctors have been murdered. In the last 5 months, 102 people have been murder in L.A. County. Get some perspective, Lee.
What’s disgusting about Lee is that he turns the other way and remains silent over this:
http://www.thereligionofpeace......1-2003.htm
Please go to this website and look at how long this list is. You will not believe it.
They aren’t waterboarding him because it’s abortion workers that are targeted. If he was targeting evangelical preachers, they’d be screaming to strap him to a board.
@2
There are 10 million people in L.A. County, and about 1,800 abortion providers across the country, so in order for a resident of L.A. County to have as much risk of being murdered in 2009 as an abortion doctor, over 5500 residents of L.A. County would have to be murdered by the end of the year.
In other words, an abortion doctor is about 25-30 times more likely to be shot than a resident of L.A. County.
You should waterboard Obama, Balmer announced today they would export more jobs if the chosen one(shopping in Paris today) massively raises taxes on companies.
When he shoves out his massive unfunded Health care Bull Shit, you are going to see companies sending massive jobs overseas and as a result massive layoffs in this country.
Way to go, hows that 9.4 and growing Unemployment rate helping pay all the Marxists wages and Pensions? Just wondering!
You dems are temporarily in charge, get the fing water warmed up or cooled off and get going!
I know an argument can be made that targeting a certain group of people for murder because of their beliefs or actions (in this case, abortion doctors) raises the murder to another level. Some may call it a hate crime, and some may call it terrorism. But I don’t think one type of murder is more outrageous than the other. I don’t think the murder of an abortion doctor is any more outrageous than an armored car guard being shot in the head. Both are cold blooded murders. Both are equally reprehensible.
Lee was asking why do we waterboard one type of terrorist, and not another? He didn’t answer that question, but if he did, I suppose he would say it has something to do with skin color, or religion, or … sorry, my hotpocket is done.
Abortion doctor murderers are sacred and holy, you can’t waterboard them.
By the way my Obama stimulus came on Friday… I got laid off, not a big deal but I can see his plan working!
I understand this is a long shot…pretty-near impossible really…
…but can’t we PLEASE get fucking better trolls than these??? FUCK!!!!
@3 Is there some reason why you’re overlooking centuries of Christian terrorism? You know — the Crusades, Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials, etc. Get off your fucking high horse, Troll. This stuff is driven by human nature, not a particular religion, and human nature is the same everywhere. You humans should leave this planet and let cute, fluffy, peace-loving rabbits run this place. The first thing we’re gonna do after we take over is exterminate all the dogs …
When the hell is the Rapture gonna get here, and take away 144,000 Republicans? Isn’t it overdue?
@6 What’s bullshit is your spew. We’re already paying for the health care you don’t want your fellow Americans to have, and in the most expensive way possible. These people clog ERs for free care, and the costs get passed on to you through higher insurance premiums and medical fees. Only an idiot like you could believe the status quo is preferable to Obama’s plan or any other plan. Anything is better than what we’ve got. Tell you what, though. We Democrats are going to fix that. As for you, either get out of the way, or get run over.
@7 “Temporary” is looking more and more like 50 years.
@11 Unfortunately, no. This is all the GOP has left. Anyone with a scrap of intelligence has already jumped off their sinking ship.
Troll,
Did you read your Golden Goat posting or not, you wretched piece of shit? Trust me, I will hound you. You are shoe shit, that which simply needs to be scraped off before entering a home. Or, a garage, or even a sidewalk.
@13
I hear ya’ on that one.
I wonder sometimes if Troll is really DOOFUS that feces-eating cur.
It’d be interesing to know if we chased that fiend out of one internet persona into another equally if not more obnoxious.
Can’t blame him for changing. Everything he blathered about was completely discredited.
19
Would it be best to chase all trolls away? Bashing them is certainly enjoyable. On the other hand, having an adult conversation would also be enjoyable. We do what we must do. While the trolls are here, we must bash them. I simply see no other alternative.
Ever since I found out in the 90’s that adults with college degrees thought that Hillary Clinton murdered Vince Foster and that Bill was a coke dealing illegitimate son of JFK, nothing surprises me.
Everyonr knows it was George HW Bush who was the coke dealer and pederast.
@21
Don’t forget about Bill’s black love-child.
‘Oh, and him ordering Ron Brown’s plane shot down.
I’m reading to first graders tomorrow morning but I’m free to waterboard this scumbag after lunch.
Does anyone really give a fuck about some asshole reprobate abortion doctor getting his comeuppance other than Tiller’s personal cabana boys Goldy and Lee the bet welsher?
Killing 60K viable human lives is worthy of condemnation, so unless you fucks are going to celebrate the life and actions of Josef Mengele as well, shut the fuck up and quit your inane pouting.
Rasmussen Alert!!
The Rasmussen Daily Tracking Poll’s Presidential Approval Index is at +8, up 700% since only Saturday!! Approval of our president is soaring!!
#4 – “In the last 45 years, only 7 abortion doctors have been murdered. In the last 5 months, 102 people have been murder in L.A. County.”
This is a perfect example. Folks don’t seem to have the most fundamental understanding of terrorism, no idea of what it means. Terrorists don’t attack your “army”. Terrorists can not “defeat you”. They don’t have more tanks, planes or bombs. The POINT of terrorism is not to kill MORE people than you can kill, but to SCARE you! That’s why it’s call “terrorism” and not just “war” or “battle”.
In this case, sure there are more murders in LA (over lovers, drugs, money, etc) than abortion doctors killed. But the POINT here is that killing the doctor was TERRORISM. It’s a small act (relatively) meant to SCARE others into a preferred course of action. Murdering your drug dealer in LA isn’t terrorism. That’s not trying to effect a course of action in Des Moines. But murdering this doctor (even if the conservatives on here agree with it) is terrorism by definition as a tactic. The murderer wasn’t trying to kill ALL doctors who perform abortion, he didn’t have that capability, just as Al-Qaeda can’t actually default our Army. That’s not the point. They’re trying impact actions of others by fear….re: terrorism.
#24 -“Tiller the baby killer”
Stop whining. Don’t like abortion? Sad about our planet only having a mere 6 billion people on it…obviously near extinction any minute? Want millions/billions of more babies? Make abortion illegal…problem solved. What’s your issue? ;-)
You make it sound like 99% of people want abortion doctors killed and it’s obvious which ‘side’ is right (yours). Then why is abortion legal? South Dakota, one of THE most conservative backwater uneducated states (ie. conservative) tried to pass a law to ban all abortion and couldn’t pass it. If South Dakota can’t get it’s citizens to ban abortion, then what’s going on here? Why can’t you even get it make illegal is a goat roping state like that? Maybe the issue it more complicated than you’re making it sound.
The abortion doctors were white.
The majority of those 102 murdered people in LA have not been white.
Lee’s perspective is what I expect from left-wingnuts.
So instead lets raise taxes on everybody so the very same people can get free health care.
Nothing makes a leftist as proud as calling people they don’t agree with pieces of shit.
How republican of proud leftist.
What, no mention of gangs?
Gangs routinely terrorize law abiding citizens.
Of course in your mind all that inner city violence is only over “lovers, drugs, money, etc.”
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 45% now trust the GOP more to handle economic issues, while 39% trust Democrats more.
…
Voters not affiliated with either party now trust the GOP more to handle economic issues by a two-to-one margin.
Thanks to the obama, the democrats are losing support.
Probably people didn’t expect pelosi’s promise of a culture of corruption to become so obvious.
Thanks to the democrats, the trials of cold cash jefferson will take place in time to be fresh for the next election cycle.
Not looking good for the democrats.
Again, the democrats are on the wrong side of american opinion.
Well duh. he only people in favor of high taxes are people that not only don’t pay taxes but suck at the teet of the government.
#32 – LOL…PRICELESS! Polls don’t matter if Obama is ahead…polls DO matter is Republicans are ahead! Reagan showed us deficits don’t matter (Dick Cheney)…unless they’re run up by Democrats, then deficits DO matter! ROTFLMAO
#31 – LOL…you’re making my point FOR me. You don’t understand the difference between killing someone specific for YOUR desires (murder) and killing someone to scare/enforce a general course of action. Gangs are rarely engaged in terrorism…usually just one-on-one murder. A gang shooting in LA is at OTHER gangs in retaliation or over money (drugs), they’re not trying to get white people in Moline to stop going to the mall or something. SOME of their killings could be terrorism (trying to scare other gangs from moving in on their drug dealing territory). But it’s not terrorism aimed at pretty white people, it’s terrorism aimed at other black (or Hispanic) gangs.
#32 – And if the Democrats get TOO far out of public opinion they WILL, and SHOULD, lose the election. That’s how it works. It goes back and forth.
Each party is the ‘party of corruption’ when someone in their party does something bad. Nixon make Republicans the party of corruption when he tried to subvert an election. Clinton made the Democrats look bad when he lied about getting a blow job (sounds about equal…lol). It goes back and forth like that.
Two wrongs don’t make a right…
In my moral universe, late term abortions are murder, pure and simple…
What was done to “Dr.” Tiller was an assasination, which is a form of murder…
Both are equally unjustified morally. While Tiller was due for an accounting, what was done to him wasn’t the appropriate or right way to do it.
Much the same way that abolitionist John Brown’s raid on Harper’s Ferry resulted in him being executed, Tiller’s assasin must face the bar of justice and take whatever punishment the law dictates.
Tiller already is facing whatever eternal justice the highest of all possible courts issues.
The one does not justify the other lest we regard ourselves as gods.
The Piper
Depends on your definition of terrorism.
If you mean 19 bloods & crips are flying planes into buildings, no, gangbangers are not terrorists.
If you mean using threats of violence to prevent people from testifying, well, I guess you wouldn’t call that terrorism either.
If you mean shooting innocent victims, I guess you wouldn’t call that terrorism either.
Dear Mr. Piper Scott:
You say “In my moral universe, late term abortions are murder, pure and simple.”
Okay, we believe you that’s your position.
So, as to the 50 million women who’ve had abortions do you favor lethal injection, a gas chamber, or just long prison terms?
And for the 10 million health care providers whohelped them — lethal injection, too? Or jail?
And for all their friends who paid for the aboriotns and aided and abetted them. what do you favor, lethal injection?
what’s that about 100 million folks you want to execute, or jail?
Please answer.
Oh btw, isn’t this just so many you would need mass firing squads? We can’t build enough jails for 100 million people, right?
Thanks in advance for your most thoughtful response.
Btw the gangs ARE engaged in terrorism they terrify entire neighborhoods to not report or challenge the drug trade and not report any of their crimes.
“1. Blue John spews:
Good point. If the security conservatives really felt it wasn’t torture, they should be pushing for it. Go all Jack Bower 24 on him. Or is it because he’s NOT muslim?”
Good point?
Well as ridiculous and this thread is, here is the short answer.
He is a US citizen. No EIT for him.
He is a US citizen. No EIT for him.
We can waterboard and torture anyone we want, so long long as they are not US citizens? Americans have god given rights, everyone else has basically the same rights as lab animals? That is the stupidist thing I have read today.
Let’s play with this. Border agents can routinely start torturing mexicans and canadians as they cross the border to find out smuggling routes? We can start to torture anyone involved in the drug trade, once we double check they are not citizens? We can torture britsh TV executives to make sure they don’t give us something worse than American Idol?
@40
Torture is illegal.
@37…GenghisKlown…
I don’t go down rabbit trails…
The point of the exercise here isn’t to mete out punishment to those who’ve engaged in conduct that, while legal, isn’t moral or ethical.
The point is to clarify the foundational premise that, regardless of how repugnant the conduct of “Dr.” Tiller (and it was most certainly repugnant), his murder was not justified nor should it be celebrated.
Again…two wrongs don’t make a right.
Is this concept too abstract for you? Or is it alien to your moral compass, should you possess one?
The Piper
Moral compass? Millions of little baby blastocysts being murdered and you sit on your fat, pompous ass and do nothing! Murder is being committed this very minute and your response is to preen yourself on a blog??
@43…Steve…
Tolerating and attempting to educate you is very much a test of that moral compass.
The Piper
32 MS
If you listen to Rasmussen numbers between elections, you’d think that the GOP won the Congressional majorities in 2006 and 2008, and the presidencey last year.
In between elections Rasmussen fluffs (look it up) the GOP daily, and we all know it. Which is why you quote his polling exclusively.
The GOP is still going to be down in 2010. I know it, but you don’t seem to.
What all the wingnuts are doing here with their protestations abgout how their moral compass does not allow late term abortion (LTA), or how many people were killed in LA County, is to knowlingly throw up a clound of dust to OBSCURE THE POINT.
The point it not that Tiller was murdered by Roeder.
The point is not that Tiller performed LTA procedures.
The point is that Tiller’s murderer has stated publicly that he has knowledge of an active and imminent conspiracy to commit other acts of violence aimed at abortion providers.
Now, I don’t support torture under any circumstances. It is illegal, ineffective, and barbaric. It is against U. S. federal law and international law.
But all of you who have slept easy knowing that a number of American prisoners, many of them innocent of any misdeed, and some US citizens (notably Jose Padilla and Naji Hamdan) have been tortured, and if you now refuse to endorse torture to stem an admitted terrorist conspiracy of imminent attacks, are sniveling hypocrites.
35 Very well stated, Piper.
If we’ve reached the point where the only way to combat violence is with more violence, then all of us are surely staring into the abyss.
I’ve read (and I don’t know if the accounts are completely credible or not) that some of the cases Tiller took on involved things like women with cancer for whom delaying chemo or radiation treatments likely would have endangered their own lives, or those carrying children that wouldn’t have survived because of known horrendous defects.
How many of all the cases were like that, I don’t know–probably not all that many. There were probably far more “Stephanie Daleys”. Suffice it to say, though, that each and every one of us wrestles with his or her own dragons, and applying some assumed stereotype to all the women who sought Tiller’s help ending their pregnancies is nothing more than a foolish stumble down the path of self-righteousness.
Tiller no doubt was convinced that what he was doing was right. The same thing is certainly true of Roeder. Life ain’t easy, folks. May God help us all get through it.
@44 You said it was murder, not me. Do you sit on your fat ass for every murder you know is going down, or is it only blastocysts for whom you do nothing?
47 AF
George Tiller did not take cases from personal solicitations. He took cases ONLY when requested by another physician, and had a finite list of medical conditions that would accept.
47 AF
Except that Tiller knew that what he was doing was legal, and Roder knew that what he was doing was murder.
@44 If your wife was being murdered would you post pompous drivil on HA, Piper? Or would you do something about it? Blastocysts are being murdered today, Piper. You know where. Why don’t you take action and stop it?
42 PS
TO YOU. We’ve stopped writing our laws just for you.
But @37 was correct. If you believe that abortion is murder, the women who obtain abortions are soliciting murder-for-hire, and doctors are hired murderers.
And if you do not believe that, then you do not believe that abortion is murder. Not that it mattters what you believe.
50 I’m inclined to doubt that Roeder viewed it that way at all. It’s been reported that since his arrest he’s expressed considerable surprise that he’s being “treated like a criminal”. It may well be that in his own mind, he saw himself as a sort of “Judge Dredd”, with some sort of divinely-granted authority to serve as judge, jury and executioner–or maybe he thought he was an avenging angel.
In any case, he certainly doesn’t appear to have a trace of remorse, and if he hadn’t been caught it’s a sucker bet he’d have been inclined to find some other doctor (perhaps that fellow in Colorado) and do it again.
“But all of you who have slept easy knowing that a number of American prisoners, many of them innocent of any misdeed, and some US citizens (notably Jose Padilla and Naji Hamdan) have been tortured”
Really? Have to call BS to that one.
Please cite your source for that “fact”. According to the “torture” memo’s only Abu Zubaydah, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri were waterboarded. What proof is there that these two were tortured?
Oh and Daddy, he is giving up the information voluntarily….;-) No EIT for him.
My sources via CNN and NYT
http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o....._bybee.pdf
http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o.....ry46pg.pdf
http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o.....y_20pg.pdf
http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o.....adbury.pdf
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06......html?_r=1
If you missed it, steve is not very tolerant of people not like him. steve’s moral compass = fail.
Steve spewed:
Here’s a clue, you goatfucking faggot cunt. Our calling you a faggot cunt is not to belittle gays and women. It is to belittle you, you worthless goatfucking faggot cunt piece of shit.
05/05/2009 AT 8:46 PM
http://horsesass.org/?p=15786&.....ent-916253
Besides us trolls, the ONLY lefty on this blog that didn’t approve of the bigotry of steve was YLB. Although, YLB doesn’t want me to mention it. I think YLB is embarrassed he took a stance that no one else on this blog took.
@51…Steve…
By keeping you occupied, I do…
The Piper
HAHAHAHA
Good one.
@54 Geez, you left GBS out of your post.
Hmm, if that goatfucker Marvin and a blastocyst were both being murdered and Piper could save only one, which would he save? Or would the pompous bitch sit on his ass while writing another post to HA to tell us about his superior moral compass?
@55 Moral compass? Blastocysts died today, Piper, and all you did about it was to preen yourself on HA.
@57…Steve…
Why would anyone want a moral compass that isn’t superior? What kind of person is it that would tolerate a mediocre moral compass, or even one that was inferior. The only appropriate kind, then, is a superior one.
As to your question…by keeping you occupied, I prevent both.
The Piper
@58
huh?
Daddy Love
” If you believe that abortion is murder, the women who obtain abortions are soliciting murder-for-hire, and doctors are hired murderers.
And if you do not believe that, then you do not believe that abortion is murder. Not that it mattters what you believe.”
I believe that “on demand” abortions of babies who are capable of surviving outside the womb is morally wrong, it’s murder. The obvious exceptions are those rare circumstances where the mother or baby are in jeopardey of their life.
In other words, Piper, you refuse to act when a murder is being committed. Or maybe you really don’t think abortion is murder. Are dead blastocysts to you are nothing more than a political football to kick around? Dead blastocysts – the bread of Piper’s affliction. Without this bread, Piper would no doubt die of spiritual hunger. You need dead blastocysts in your life, Piper, to give your life meaning. That is why you refuse to act. That is why your moral compass is all screwed up. You’re just pompous talk, Piper, with no walk to back it up.
@61…Steve…
If you only knew…
One does what one can.
Your reasoning supposes that any action I regard as morally repugnant anywhere is my fault since I failed to intervene to stop it.
Apply that standard to your own life, then explain the Bush Administration.
As a moral philosopher, please don’t quit your day job (selling Real Change News can be rewarding!)
The Piper
There’s another principle that applies to the issue at hand, and that is that there’s a limitation under everyday circumstances on the rights of ordinary citizens to commit physical harm.
Let’s say you’re a crook who barges into my house with the obvious intent to steal my stuff, rape my wife and kids and burn the place down. At that point in time, I have the right to do what I can to stop you, including the use of whatever deadly weapons might be at my disposal. On the other hand, if you come into my house and succeed in stealing my stuff, raping my wife and kids and setting fire to the place, and then leave, I can’t to over to your house and blow your brains out–that’s murder, and the fact that you did what you did provides motive which can in fact be used to help convict me. Also, I can’t go over to your house and kill or injure you because I happen to think that you might come over to do all those things to me and mine some time next week. Those situations are up to the police and the courts to deal with. I can only take the law into my own hands when it’s evident that the pros can’t get there in time to help. That’s been a principle of civil law since the Code of Hammurabi.
So, from that reasoning, even if Roeder was firm in his conviction that what Dr. Tiller was doing was murder–even if Roe v Wade had never happened and it was illegal, it wasn’t his job to go into Tiller’s church and gun him down, either to avenge what he’d done in the past or with the assumption that he’d do more of the same when he went to work on Monday.
Here are some other words…
Steve spewed:
Here’s a clue, you goatfucking faggot cunt. Our calling you a faggot cunt is not to belittle gays and women. It is to belittle you, you worthless goatfucking faggot cunt piece of shit.
05/05/2009 AT 8:46 PM
http://horsesass.org/?p=15786&.....ent-916253
BTW, nothing is taken out of context.
@62 “If you only knew…”
What, how superior and wonderful you are? I’m sure you’ll tell us again.
“One does what one can.”
Apparently for you that amounts to doing nothing but preening yourself on local blogs. Blasocysts died today, Piper!! Don’t you care?
“selling Real Change News can be rewarding!”
Then I hope that works out better for you than the headhunting, law, and the other gigs at which you’ve tried to succeed and failed.
Unlike you that showed everyone you are a hateful homophobic bigot.
I would ask how your moral compass is working out for you, except we all know about your moral compass.
Steve spewed:
Here’s a clue, you goatfucking faggot cunt. Our calling you a faggot cunt is not to belittle gays and women. It is to belittle you, you worthless goatfucking faggot cunt piece of shit.
05/05/2009 AT 8:46 PM
http://horsesass.org/?p=15786&.....ent-916253
@66 I don’t cotton to you goatfucking wingnut traitors, Marvin. So it strikes me that my moral compass is working just fine, thank you.
Marvin finally admits to fucking goats.
Too fucking much.