Dear McPalin and others pushing this absurd nonsense: please define your terms. Here’s a dictionary definition of socialism: (you can go here and look it up at Merriam-Webster yourself if you want.)
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done.
Yeah, we have to resort to publishing the dictionary definition because nobody even knows what kind of socialism we’re all supposedly pushing by hoping for a small adjustment in marginal income tax rates.
Might be a fun thing for people who get paid to write news articles to examine, since the “s” word is being thrown about on the cable tee-vee every five minutes or so.
Are Democrats in favor of the kind of “socialism” that provides very safe luxury automobiles, really fun kids toys and furniture you can put together with a hex wrench, or the kind of socialism where the urban populations are all forcibly removed to the countryside to work on the farms while Culture is Revolutionized?
‘Cause, you know, there’s a difference. If anyone actually cares.
I thought hating on France was idiotic, but hating on Sweden takes things to a whole new level. I’m pretty sure that any day now the McPalin supporters will demand the name of a popular Swedish food item be changed to “Freedom Balls.”
The stupid, it really does burn. Define your terms, McPalin, if you can.
Viva La Revolucion!
Stupid, as many a wise individual has said, is as stupid does.
Pick a catchphrase or scary word and repeat it loud and often in an ominous tone and you have the Republican play book.
They’ve used it one too many times (at least) and now it simply ain’t working. It is having an opposite effect.
Lucky us!!
Wingnuts! “Equivocal” is not about a bunch of people saying the same thing at the same time.
Just thought I’d point that out.
Jon Devore: Obama’s plan will increase the top tax rate on smart people from less than 38% to greater than 50%.
Who are those smart people? Well, most HA Donkey here do not qualify as entrepreneurs and investors.
Then when Bush tried to attack the Social Security problem losers like Pelosi said “There is no Social Security crisis”
Yet Obama thinks there is so he wants to raise the ceiling from $104,000 to $200,000. So who is lying?
Both Obama and Pelosi are Donkey
Wait a minute – I used that nogressive web shit Common Screams
We need to stop this from becoming the truth.
Has anyone read his book?
Is this real or fiction?
http://forums.heraldtribune.co.....9601060397
@3 You are delusional.
@4 Pay up and shut up, you greedy fascist.
@5 We’re going to take all of your money and possessions, your wife and children, and give it to islamobrownpeoplejihadifascists. I do hope that sucks for you.
Steve HAs Biggest ASSHole and Purveyor of Steve’s Stupid Solution…
Who is lying SSS? Pelosi or Obama? And SSS I’d rather give my money to charity. Are you like Biden and Obama giving mere pittances to charity?
Careful who you choose 5th grader!
Typical republicans. They don’t want to pay for the services they demand. When a responsible group comes along and tries to run the government right, they call them socialist.
Did you know that two counties in Southern Oregon closed their public libraries because they don’t want to pay taxes for it. They know what is important!
Steve HAs Biggest ASSHole and Purveyor of Steve’s Stupid Solution…
Delusional: Prove me wrong with what Obama says he’s gonna do with tax increases!
I dare ya!
@10 We’re going to raise your fucking taxes, Puddz. Learn to live with it.
@8 “HAs Biggest ASSHole”
Flatter me all you want but we’re still gonna tax the shit out of you. Sucks, huh?
@7
Do you feel okay?
If puddy is making the big bucks, then yes, I hope we require to him pay a lot more in taxes.
Hey puddy and the rest of you conservatives, what country is doing conservatism right? What country is most your conservatism ideal?
@13 Mmm, I feel great. Why do you ask? Do things suck for you?
And Steve HAs Biggest ASSHole and Purveyor of Steve’s Stupid Solution…
when your taxes also go up I told you so.
When corporations are taxed who pays?
When the wealthy are taxed who really pays?
And since all these boat companies make over $250K, they’ll be hurt even worse by the Obamatax.
Puddz is dejected because Republican fascism is going down the drain, having been rejected by real Americans.
Ted, this says it best:
@16 “who pays”
You, “sucka”.
A little socialism will be a nice change of pace from the christo-fascism that the likes of Puddz tried to lay on us real Americans.
Fascism Steve? Wrong oh. You are the fascists, socialists and nazis!
Obama is proving it every day.
Fascists – Telling the TV station that caught Biden in a lie they are cut off from interviews and campaign ads. The removal of McCain yard signs. The words of Jeff Bingamon
Socialists – Obama’s own words
Nazis – Many HA leftist posters
Well i am guessing from the comment thread that McPalibuds define socialism as raising taxes, isn’t that special??
We support Obama,
http://www.chicagotribune.com/.....ory?page=1
Sorry, the US government has racked up some serious bills with a needless war and couple of bailouts. Someone’s gotta pay for them.
In the last tax cut, the middle class got $10, the rich got $300,000. We gotta reverse that so we pay our debts. The middle class pay an extra $20, the rich pay an extra $600,000.
You don’t mind do you?
Oh, I get it. If we raise Puddz’ taxes then we’re all a bunch of commie-nazis. That just about covers everything there, Puddz. Well done.
9. blue john spews:
WTF are you moaning about?
I don’t want the government to do anything but military & infrastructure. That’s it.
It’s you KLOWNS who are constantly reaching for the WELFARE teat….
Now you have your Socialist Guy poised to take the White House and do what?? Take from successful people and give it to you a$$holes?
The KLOWNS are starting to run for cover because the ugly light of Socialism is shining down on them
As Obama’s hero, 6-time Socialist Party Candidate Norman Thomas spewed:
If that isn’t a clear warning shot about what Obama is up to, I don’t know what is.
I’m sure that being a commie-nazi is a lot more fun than being a liberal-fascist, especially if we get to take all of Puddz’ money and give it to the undeserving of minimum wage poor people.
@26 “Take from successful people and give it to you a$$holes?”
So what’s your agony? That leaves you 25 cents per post BIAW trolls off the hook, doesn’t it? You know, you ought to consider unionizing in order to get a decent living wage from those fascist shits.
14. blue john spews:
BJ, you stupid bastard, didn’t you read my prior post? Guys like Puddy & I already have Plan B in place. And so do lots of people on how to sidestep the Obama Socialist Party. Do you really think that with BILLIONS being spent on tax planning by corporations & wealthy folks (including wealthy from the fringe lunatic left), that Obama is going to deliver on your sick pipedreams??
If you KLOWNS put 1/2 the energy into figuring out how to grow the economy as you do in trying to play “wear is the pea” with rich folks…you would be sooooooo much better off.
Hey, the market went up almost 900 points. Last time that happened a month or so ago, the rally quickly fizzled.
Did you KLOWNS sell into the close like I advised you?? If the market is up in the AM, sell. I’m preaching to morons who buy stocks when they are high & sell when they are low…I forgot.
I think you sick bastards like to be poor.
It’s cool, Cynical. Nobody’s going to take your goat away from you, just your money and land.
18. Puddybud spews:
Ted, this says it best:
Amen Puddy.
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.
—Karl Marx
Even if Obama wins, you will be hearing this chant the next 4 years until our youth find out he cannot deliver the “easy-life” they think he promises them….with the Youth joining in the Marxist/Socialist chant.
Cynical, so you don’t think you should pay for the debts the country has racked up in your name? You don’t think you should pay for your share of the invasion and the bailouts?
Like I said, demand services and not pay for them. Typical greedy Republican.
30. Steve spews:
Thank you Steve for validating what Conservatives have been saying about Barrack Obama.
So succinct.\
And no mention of fornication….I guess you forgot.
That’s all they got. The threat of raising taxes.
We are deep in debt, paying for things the republicans wanted, like the invasion, but they don’t want to pay for them.
32. blue john spews:
I already pay waaaaaaaay more than you do dipshit.
The problem is your definition of what my “share” is.
I sounds like my “share” is probably waaaaaay more than your share.
How many attacks have we had on US soil since 9/11?
If Obama wins, when will it happen?
Who will you blame??
34. blue john spews:
You really have taken a huge gulp from the Steve’s Stupid Solution potion.
Your Democrat friends voted for it too numbnutz.
Typical Socialist Loser…bitch & moan in the greatest country in the world totally protected & secure…which allows you to bitch & moan. Grow up a$$munch.
Work on GROWING THE ECONOMY…instead of redistributing wealth. The WEALTH you yearn to redistribute is already protected from you & Obama.
Don’t change the subject. We were talking about taxes, and you tried to talk about terrorism.
I’m going to end up paying more in taxes, to pay for the stupid invasion. I expect you to pay more too. Be a patriot, pay your taxes.
Where are cops and teachers and healthcare workers and housewives in that equation? They are busy taking care of YOU, don’t they get some of the wealth?
@29 “I’m preaching to morons who buy stocks when they are high & sell when they are low…”
More troll projection, huh? It never ends. Is that what happened to you? You lost everything because you bought high and sold low? No wonder you’re such a bitter fascist loser, living on your pretend ranch, buying and selling your pretend stocks. Christ, you’re pathetic, Cynical, even for a troll.
Puddy @ several
I’ve answered just about every substantive claim you’ve tried to make on this subject. At last reckoning, you accused me of misquoting Sam Zell, at which point I went and found the exact quote. What you have not done is provide a cogent response to any of my arguments.
Your dog won’t hunt. What’s more, the American public has pretty much caught on to this specious argument.
Really, all anyone has to do is point out that none of you wingnuts have answered Jon’s simple question in this post. All you’ve done is repeat the jingoism, as if repeating the lie will, somehow, make it true.
Oh, and Puddy, no links to idiots who don’t know what they’re talking about. Provide links to facts. Links to someone else’s opinion don’t count. I want you to craft a cogent argument here all on your lonesome self. Until you do, consider yourself proved to be a pondering, blithering idiot.
Ranching in Montana is such easy work. It leaves Cynical plenty of time to post from morning to night on a Western Washington political blog and he even has time to have lunch often at his favorite cafe in Lacey, just a short hop from the BIAW headquarters in Olympia.
Youy’re such a stupid fool, Cynical.
They reach a point and they stop posting….They never answer the follow up questions to their canned responses.
Here’s a bust that took place this month for Puddz to mull over:
“20 year Republican Assembly memeber and State
Parole Board Commissioner George Chris Ortloff was arrested in a federal child sex sting. Agents found it suspicious when Ortloff arrived in an Albany-area hotel with condoms, lubricant, vibrators and a camera expecting to find a 12 year old girl and her 11 year old
sister, but the nail in the coffin was when he answered the door naked. Commissioner Ortloff faces ten years to life and a $250,000 fine.”
http://www.lakeplacidnews.com/.....l?nav=5005
This has been another edition of “Puddy’s Heroes”.
C’mon, Puddz, attack the messenger. Tell everybody how I’m the one who’s sick, not you and your Republican “heroes”. You’re a disgusting goatfucker, Puddz. You know it. I know it. Everybody here knows it.
Are you going to hide behind one of your equally stupid sockpuppets now, Puddz?
37. blue john spews:
I’m not changing the subject you pencil-necked geek! The lack of terrorism in the US is directly connected to our aggressive approach to the Middle East. What a nitwit bj. You try to put everything into a seperate compartment…making it so a simpleton like you can hope to understand a complex world. You are soooo lucky to be an American bj.
You’d never survive in a Socialist Country.
Count your blessings instead of bitching envious thoughts about people having more than you.
BJ, you have waaaaay more than you deserve.
You are just too indoctrinated to understand that.
38. blue john spews:
Work on GROWING THE ECONOMY…instead of redistributing wealth.
Cops can make $100,000/yr. with overtime and have the best benefit packages around. Teachers make $58,000/year after 12 years and get huge benefits, a guaranteed pension…all for taking zero risk and working 180 days/yr.
Healthcare Workers?? Doctors & Nurses are well paid. What are you talking about??
And housewives?? That’s a personal choice a family makes. If you are talking about woman that get knocked up out of wedlock, they already get plenty of handouts.
The American Dream is there. It’s about CHOICES, hard work and Risk taking.
Why on earth would anybody but Puddz and Cynical vote for representatives of a political party that harbors pedophiles and goatfuckers?
@ 47
Work on GROWING THE ECONOMY…instead of redistributing wealth.
First of all, tax issues are about income, not wealth. So, you’ve added a straw man to your equivocal use of the word “socialism”.
Second, your argument presumes, without a shred of evidence in support and mountains of evidence to the contrary, that increasing income disparity leads to increased economic growth. Seriously, haven’t the last eight years been enough to convince you that this article of Conservative faith has no basis in reality?
Republican logic:
Q: When taxes are cut for the rich and we spend $10 billion a month in Iraq, who pays?
A: No one does, because tax cuts for the rich and trillion dollar wars are FREE!
Q: When taxes are cut for the middle class, who pays?
A: The middle class does because Obama will raise your taxes!
35 Cynical
How come everyone forgets about the anthrax attacks? The answer is “at least one.”
Of course, the better question is: How many attacks on US soil have we had since the Bush Republicans took office? And the answer is “at least TWO.”
It’s not like they didn’t know Al Qaeda was going to attack.
The hating of the poor by the right wing is nothing new. That’s why when poor people vote they get so upset.
Deep thpought:
If Hillary Clinton had been nominated, she’d be up by seven points too.
Myself @ 49
Before some pedantic wingnut comes along, I should point out that my comment is about the tax issues we’re discussing here. Property taxes aren’t under the purview of Sen. Obama’s tax proposals.
49 DJ (re: the other guy)
Who was it who used to always talk about “growing the economy?” And DID to the extent of creating the longest economic expansion in US history with unprecedentedly low unemployment and income gains in all classes?
Oh, that’s right, it was BILL CLINTON.
And all that prosperity came under the tax rates no higher than those that Obama is proposing to levy on only our wealthiest citizens. Funny how reality is so consistently different from Republican-World.
@46:
Did that little wimp cynical just call someone a pencil necked geek?
Republicans like to talk big – but they are mostly wimps. Every time I have personally confronted a republican, they back down. I am not sure if it because they have no arguments (that is they lack the intellectual armament)or they are physically intimidated. Either way – wimps.
Cynical is no exception. He has made a total fool of himself with his ridiculous “socialism” comments.
According to cynical the following are socialist:
John McCain (against the Bush tax cuts)
Bill Clinton (created a budget surplus and an economy 10X better than Bush)
FDR
LBJ
JFK
Nixon
Bush 41
You have no argument cynical. If the graduated income tax is socialist – than the US has been socialist since 1910.
Looks like those “socialist” countries in europe know how to regulate their banks a hell of lot better than we do ours.
Your ideas cynical ARE bankrupt. Yelling socialism about the income tax is sooooo 1920’s. Guess that is where you get your material.
Wimp!
Jon defined “socialism” at the outset of his post. Plainly, nothing Obama promotes meets any of the three definitions. Moreover, there is not a chance in hell any of the three definitions could become an enacted economic program under an Obama administration. So, what are McCainiac/Putinites talking about when they talk about socialism? When we see the wingnut posts above, it is clear–socialism is whatever Republicans don’t like. It is a moving target, amorphous and intangible. Let’s tack Jello to the wall. The Republican attack on intellectuals and elites really is coming back to bite them–the party is now bereft of anyone who can think or articulate a clear thought.
We were supposed to buy the “toxic” paper the banks held. We didn’t. Why?
Instead we followed the lead of “socialist” Britain and other Euro nations and bought shares of the banks.
Now the Treasury is wondering why the banks are just sitting on the bailout money they’ve gotten so far.
It’s plainly obvious that the banks don’t want to lend. They’d rather buy out their shaky competition.
Pretty soon, the Treasury will harangue the banks to lend that money. Again following the lead of the “socialist” countries in Europe. If a bank is too sick to lend, then it’s too sick to live.
You wingnuts voted twice for a bunch of socialists!
Hey Cynical,
You must be overjoyed:
Montana: McCain 48%, Obama 44%
“This Montana poll, in fact, comes just as we’ve learned that the Republican National Committee’s independent expenditure arm will begin advertising there tomorrow. That’s right, folks — Montana is still in play, and the
race there could even be closer than the poll suggests when 1) popular Gov. Brian Schweitzer (D) is at the top of the ticket; 2) Sen. Max Baucus (D) is cruising to re-election; and 3) the state GOP there is in a mess.”
The Investors Business Daily editorial writers think raising the capital gains rate from 15% to 20% on guys making millions of dollars is socialism, but a 32.65% marginal tax rate on a wage earner making $50,000 a year isn’t.
Experimenting with Obama’s Wealth Redistribution
In a local restaurant my server had on an Obama 08 tie; again I laughed as he had given away his political preference – just imagine the coincidence. When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need – the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight. I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I’ve decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.
At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient deserved money more. I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.
One might, I think, quibble about the distinction between “deserved” and “needed,” but still, it’s worth some reflection.
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods..
Like when the US Government builds and funds 90 percent of the cost of a highway. The Interstate system… Or builds dams like the TVA and Bonniville…
When we bail out Deregulated Bankrupted Airlines, Banks, Car Builders, Insurance companies, Mortgage Lenders, and so on, doesnt the Government now OWN that loan? Therefore we are already SOCIALIST?
I am sure the city ownership of Streetcars, Water, and Electric utilities is… dare I say… um Socialist? OMG. WE are already SOCIALISTS!!!
2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
So when we regulate ZONING laws, and control money markets to slow inflation, or tighten up credit lending… Medic units run by the CITY… ER and trama centers run by the county and state…
OMG… SOCIALISM… (I guess anti-socialists can call their favorite for profit EMT next heart attack or accident)
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done.
Yep… the last eight years under GOP domination has brought on SOCIALISM… Now that the treasury is looted, and banks are failing, and mortgages are busting… that DEREGUALTED marketplace that brought us the wonders of the current airline industry has now done the same to banks and wall street. Well done. and BAILING THEM OUT IS SOCIALISM.