A few years back I shopped around a satirical guest column in which I suggested we could solve our education funding crisis by slaughtering our worst performing students and feeding them to their classmates. The editorial board of one major daily was intrigued, but after a few weeks of mulling it over they eventually rejected my “modest proposal” with the explanation that their readers “lacked the satire gene.”
I was deeply disappointed at the time by what I felt to be a display of editorial cowardice, but in the years hence I have grown to appreciate the editors’ healthy cynicism towards their readers’ own limits. For as I have repeatedly learned during my two and a half years of blogging, some people simply don’t get satire. Ever.
One might think by now that my regular readers would have grown accustomed to my penchant for persiflage, yet many, of both political persuasions, wouldn’t know irony if I dropped the “y” and savagely beat them around the head and face with it. For example, however outrageous or intentionally offensive my attempts at satire may be, accusing a sitting state senator of “fucking pigs” is most definitely not libel, nor is it fair to characterize as “hate speech” a proposed initiative to exempt Christians from our state’s anti-discrimination laws. And when I urged that all extraordinary efforts be used to save a critically ill Rev. Jerry Falwell, no matter how painful or intrusive — to the point of keeping his brain alive in “a jar of nutrient-rich fluid” — well… that was not, as one angry reader conversely described it in an email purportedly copied to the FBI, a “terrorristic [sic] death threat.”
It was a joke.
And as a connoisseur of humor, I would have hoped that it would not be necessary to appreciate a joke in order to at least acknowledge that it exists. But apparently, some people just don’t get satire.
This sad reality was brought home yesterday when General JC Christian of the satirical blog Jesus’ General joined me on 710-KIRO as I was subbing for Dori Monson. This was without a doubt the funniest hour of radio I’ve ever produced, an experience enhanced for the guys in the booth as the lines lit up with angry callers. One would think that when the General started talking about tazering shopkeepers who refused to say “Merry Christmas” and arming fetuses with tiny in utero handguns that nearly everybody would have realized that he was in fact joking. Yet the overwhelming majority of callers chose to take him at face value.
Of course, talk radio callers, just like blog commenters, are a tiny, nonrepresentative segment of the larger audience, so I remain confident that the majority of listeners got the joke. But if not, who cares?
My job as both a radio host and a blogger is to engage the audience, and it doesn’t really matter how I do it. If the audience is laughing, that’s great. If the audience is enraged, that’s okay too. As long as they’re listening to me, they’re listening to the ads, and that after all is KIRO’s business. And oh yeah, as long as they’re listening to me they’ll come away better informed, whether they like it or not… and that after all is my business.
Everybody wants to be liked. But I’ll settle for people just tuning in.
Well Goldy this has a simple root cause. The rethugs have one everything in their power to destroy public education and it looks like it’s working. Hence, an audience that’s so stupid it needs two hours to watch “60 Minutes.”
But what’s worse, you have sick, twisted, traitors like Ann Coulter calling for people to “kill liberals” and she’s not kidding. The inbred righties have no trouble with her words, and are too inbred and too stupid to understand yours. Not much surprise on either count.
Maybe our educational system needs to add a remedial instructional unit on satire that is manditory at least once a year, much like defensive driving or cultural “sensitivity” training
Goldy,
If you, “savagely beat them around the head and face,” with irony, wouldn’t you, in fact, be replacing the “y” with an “s” and capitalizing the “I”?
Here’s a good rule of thumb: When you tell a joke to someone from Washington, be sure to tell them that it is a joke so they will know that they are supposed to laugh.
Mary Ann Guinn of the SeaTimes wrote an article in Pacific Magazine several years ago about the literal-mindedness of Washingtonians. Sad, but true.
I listened to most of the first hour with the General and could not believe that people were taking him at face value. I think his purported beliefs were ludicrous enough on their face for anyone with six working synapses firing in a row to be able to figure out that he is, indeed, trying to out-American Taliban the American Taliban.
The only guy I can remember who “got it” during the entire hour was the fellow who claimed to be stuck in traffic who said he was turned off by this guy and would encourage listeners not to go read patriotboy.blogspot.com. Several times.
I thought briefly about calling in but decided I’d just sit back and let the satire-impaired help General J.C. entertain me.
Did the Age of Irony precede or follow the Bronze Age? Can you satirically spear an opponent with a sharply ironical point? My public high school English teacher would have regaled us with examples. His last name was Morse. He named his son Micky. His wife divorced him.
Satire is one of those double-edged Promethean swords.
Goldy, that was a very, very funny segment. I was busting up. After the Spartan Wrestling bit you would have thought folks would have gotten it.
I tried to call in with a dillema for The General but too many angry people were already in the que. You see, near the end of the show, Kay asked me to go to the store for some “french cut beans”. I didn’t know what to do but I was sure The General would.
It is strange that a community with one of the highest college educated populations in the nation suffers from a satire gene deficency. I proposed a tongue-in-cheek solution to Issaquah’s southeast bypass debate. Seattle has a tried and true structure that it wants to retire. The Alaskan Way viaduct has survived earthquakes and the burden of thousands of cars. The transplant of the viaduct connecting I-90 to Issaquah-Hobart Road would solve the traffic problem. Additionally the area under the viaduct could be converted to parking, skateboard ramps, and basketball courts. As a money maker, time on the basketball courts could be rented to bus loads of park starved Seattle kids. The literal-minded citizens belived me. Maybe I should take up politics as a hobby.
arming fetuses with tiny in utero handguns
OH LORDY! I’m sorry I missed it. It’s sounds like it was a gut-busting segment.
Borat Humor:
For those who haven’t seen the movie “Borat”, at a low point in his American experience, Borat converts to christianity. Now, when Borat goes to protest marches, he’s like one of those Jesus pricks with the signs condemning everyone to hell. Only, Borat’s sign reads a little different:
Believe on the Lord
Jesus Christ
and thou shalt get laid
After the Nov 7th election, Borat prayed, “Thank you Lord, for bitch-slapping them God damned republicans.”
Amen, Borat. Amen.
About 20 years ago, Tom Clancy Clancy was selling lots of books about a hypothetical Soviet invasion of Europe, and there was even a movie “Wolverines” about a hypothetical Soviet invasion of the U.S. At the same time, we were still (as always) arguing about how to solve the traffic problems in the Seattle area, even though the population then was half what it is now.
I had to give a speech for my Toastmasters group, so I decided to put the two together. I spoke in the past tense, as if I was giving a scholarly discussion of a topic in history. My thesis was that the Soviets did in fact attempt to invade the U.S. mainland, but the turning point in the war was when Soviet tanks became hopelessly gridlocked in traffic along the I-5 corridor in Seattle, allowing U.S. forces the time they needed to re-group and counter-attack. I thought the most humerous part was when the Soviet general’s tank was taken out by an RV attempting to change lanes without signalling.
But I didn’t get a single smile or chuckle during the speech. A few just looked at me with blank stares. My evaluator criticized me for giving a speech with a topic which was “too serious for a morning breakfast meeting”, and somebody else asked me for my research sources, as they had never heard of this event. “Did that really happen?” he asked.
I don’t know, maybe it was my delivery, and I was never meant to be a comedian. Or maybe Goldy is right – people in Seattle don’t get satire.
Now i certainly wouldn’t suggest that this lack of satirical sophistication has any relationship whatsoever to the vast numbers who have (and continue) to attend religious homeschools; no that would be inappropriate. I do note though, that there are many among that constituency, who not only listen to, and have emotional relationships with, talk radio. They would also be the ones who when recently shown Soylent Green thought that it was one of those VNRs put out by Bushco suggesting what they were doing with the non-believers and detainees. drip drip drip (laced with mercurial satire).
Of course Goldy’s piece is not just satire, but a lovely allusion to Jonathan Swift’s essay, “A Modest Proposal” for the Irish to alleviate their poverty by eating their one-year-old children:
And while I’m sure you all recognized the reference from having read it in high school, you never know who’s going to be literarily as well as satirically challenged.
You have no excuse, Goldy! You KNEW Republicans have NO SENSE OF HUMOR!! Absolutely nothing about Republicans is funny, least of all their inbred genes.
Roxanne (1987)
Steve Martin as C.D. Bales –
C.D. Bales: Oh, ho, ho, irony! Oh, no, no, we don’t get that here. See, uh, people ski topless here while smoking dope, so irony’s not really a, a high priority. We haven’t had any irony here since about, uh, ’83, when I was the only practitioner of it. And I stopped because I was tired of being stared at.
Maybe you should stop calling it satire. You could re-package it as HUMOR/extra-dry and list the vitamins and minerals…
Don’t lose heart Goldy, some of us get it.
Pretty slow news day … not much going on today … other than Iraqis killing each other by the hundreds (including six who were doused with kerosene and set on fire) … hey wingnuts how’s your nation-building experiment coming along?
The solution to Iraq seems clear. All we have to do is occupy the country until there’s no Iraqis left. Shouldn’t take more than another six to twelve months. .
Of course, Roger, you know that the increased sectarian violence in Iraq is really just all the insurgents jumping at the opportunities enabled by the election of Democrats to power.
And, yes, this comment is on topic.
I thought the Democrats WERE the insurgents??*
* This is satire!
rhp6033 says:
I don’t know, maybe it was my delivery, and I was never meant to be a comedian. Or maybe Goldy is right – people in Seattle don’t get satire.
11/24/2006 at 2:00 pm
Rhp that was great perspective and it is too bad everybody is not as clairvoyance as you are in making the point. I have the same problem today in communicating with certain groups that have been program into thinking a certain way. My wife has the same problem as the folks in Seattle, and I think it’s from the programming she received from the Communist education system in Yugoslavia. She also misses half the punch lines that a Comedian makes to provokes the humor.
Which country did Coulter flee to, to avoid prosecution for felony voting fraud? Is she in Paraguay? Paraguay doesn’t have an extradition treaty with the U.S., and they’re nice to Nazis.
You all should visit this website to read about their dilemma. Then donate for their cause in saving lives in Israel.
http://www.afmda.org/site/Page.....m23.app13a
For residents of Sderot, western Negev agricultural communities such as Kibbutz Nahal Oz, Kibbutz Beeri and Kfar Aza, as well as Ashkelon and south, coping with Qassam rocket attacks and mortar fire continues to be a daily routine. Magen David Adom in Sderot has been on full alert for months, responding to these attacks. Crews are on the road almost immediately upon hearing that Qassamim have been launched. Luckily, injuries from the rockets have been limited but MDA must respond to every incident.
Despite a massive IDF offensive which just ended in Gaza in the Beit Hanoun area, which Defense Monister Amir Peretz called the center of rocket launchings against Israel, terrorists are continuing to launch Qassam rockets.
Although the majority of these rockets have miraculously landed in open fields or empty buildings, Magen David Adom crews must respond to every incident to be sure that any injuries are treated. In recent days MDA crews in Sderot have needed to treat people for flying glass and shrapnel wounds as well as shock as a result of Qassam rocket attacks.
rhp6033 brings back memories of the ’80s: “there was even a movie “Wolverines” about a hypothetical Soviet invasion of the U.S.” The year was 1984 and the movie was Red Dawn.
What Can I Do to Make Your Flight More Uncomfortable?
Who would make a statement like this and is Rogers best friend?
Six imams removed from a US Airways flight from Minneapolis to Phoenix are calling on Muslims to boycott the airline. If only we could get Muslims to boycott all airlines, we could dispense with airport security altogether.
Witnesses said the imams stood to do their evening prayers in the terminal before boarding, chanting “Allah, Allah, Allah” — coincidentally, the last words heard by hundreds of airline passengers on 9/11 before they died.
Witnesses also said that the imams were talking about Saddam Hussein, and denouncing America and the war in Iraq. About the only scary preflight ritual the imams didn’t perform was the signing of last wills and testaments.
After boarding, the imams did not sit together and some asked for seat belt extensions, although none were morbidly obese. Three of the men had one-way tickets and no checked baggage.
Also they were Muslims.
The idea that a Muslim boycott against US Airways would hurt the airline proves that Arabs are utterly tone-deaf. This is roughly the equivalent of Cindy Sheehan taking a vow of silence. How can we hope to deal with people with no sense of irony? The next thing you know, New York City cab drivers will be threatening to bathe.
Come to think of it, the whole affair may have been a madcap advertising scheme cooked up by US Airways.
It worked with me. US Airways is my official airline now. Northwest, which eventually flew the Allah-spouting Muslims to their destinations, is off my list. You want to really hurt a U.S. air carrier’s business? Have Muslims announce that it’s their favorite airline.
The clerics had been attending an imam conference in Minneapolis (imam conference slogan: “What Happens in Minneapolis — Actually, Nothing Happened in Minneapolis”). But instead of investigating the conference, the government is now investigating my favorite airline.
What threat could Muslims flying from Minnesota to Arizona be?
Three of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 received their flight training in Arizona. Long before the attacks, an FBI agent in Phoenix found it curious that so many Arabs were enrolled in flight school. But the FBI rebuffed his request for an investigation on the grounds that his suspicions were based on the same invidious racial profiling that has brought US Airways under investigation and into my good graces.
Lynne Stewart’s client, the Blind Sheik, Omar Abdel-Rahman, is serving life in prison in a maximum security lock-up in Minnesota. One of the six imams removed from the US Airways plane was blind, so Lynne Stewart was the one missing clue that would have sent all the passengers screaming from the plane.
Wholly apart from the issue of terrorism, don’t we have a seller’s market for new immigrants? How does a blind Muslim get to the top of the visa list? Is there a shortage of blind, fanatical clerics in this country that I haven’t noticed? Couldn’t we get some Burmese with leprosy instead? A 4-year-old could do a better job choosing visa applicants than the U.S. Department of Immigration.
One of the stunt-imams in US Airways’ advertising scheme, Omar Shahin, complained about being removed from the plane, saying: “Six scholars in handcuffs. It’s terrible.”
Yes, especially when there was a whole conference of them! Six out of 150 is called “poor law enforcement.” How did the other 144 “scholars” get off so easy?
Shahin’s own “scholarship” consisted of continuing to deny Muslims were behind 9/11 nearly two months after the attacks. On Nov. 4, 2001, the Arizona Republic cited Shahin’s “skepticism that Muslims or bin Laden carried out attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon.” Shahin complained that the government was “focusing on the Arabs, the Muslims. And all the evidence shows that the Muslims are not involved in this terrorist act.”
In case your memory of that time is hazy, within three days of the attack, the Justice Department had released the names of all 19 hijackers — names like Majed Moqed, Ahmed Alghamdi, Mohand Alshehri, Ahmed Ibrahim A. Al Haznawi and Ahmed Alnami. The government had excluded all but 19 passengers as possible hijackers based on extensive interviews with friends and family of nearly every passenger on all four flights. Some of the hijackers’ seat numbers had been called in by flight attendants on the planes.
By early October, bin Laden had produced a videotape claiming credit for the attacks. And by Nov. 4, 2001, the New York Times had run well over 100 articles on the connections between bin Laden and the hijackers — even more detailed and sinister than the Times’ flowcharts on neoconservatives!
Also, if I remember correctly, al Qaeda had taken out full-page ads in Variety and the Hollywood Reporter thanking their agents for the attacks.
But now, on the eve of the busiest travel day in America, these “scholars” have ginned up America’s PC victim machinery to intimidate airlines and passengers from noticing six imams chanting “Allah” before boarding a commercial jet.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18180
Folks do you think today that Women should now register for the draft to support the War effort? They want equal time let’s not deny them a complete shot at the whole Enchilada.
WASHINGTON – Americans would have to sign up for a new military draft after turning 18 under a bill the incoming chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee says he will introduce next year.
Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., said Sunday he sees his idea as a way to deter politicians from launching wars.
“There’s no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm’s way,” Rangel said.
Rangel, a veteran of the Korean War who has unsuccessfully sponsored legislation on conscription in the past, has said the all-volunteer military disproportionately puts the burden of war on minorities and lower-income families.
Rangel said he will propose a measure early next year. While he said he is serious about the proposal, there is little evident support among the public or lawmakers for it.
In 2003, Rangel proposed a measure covering people age 18 to 26. It was defeated 402-2 the following year. This year, he offered a plan to mandate military service for men and women between age 18 and 42; it went nowhere in the Republican-led Congress.
Democrats will control the House and Senate come January because of their victories in the Nov. 7 election.
~655 Californians died today. Guess we ought to abandon California, pull back to Okinawa, and pretend that California isn’t really there…..
The math is simple. If Washington citizens are serious about improving education, serious about reducing class size, increasing teacher pay, and raising test scores, then we must increase per student spending. But if voters are equally determined to slash taxes… well then… I thank Tim Eyman for opening my eyes to the harsh reality of this dog-eat-dog world.
And so I offer my modest proposal in the hope of sparking a much needed public debate, and I trust that it will be received in the spirit in which it was intended.
(Originally posted Sep. 9, 2003)
Goldy the math is simpler if your kid’s move to the Eastside for an education. My Liberal neighbors from Seattle had increase by two thirds in the last five years just because of the schools in your neighborhood. The best thing for students in Seattle is that they fired the whole teaching staff and transport the students into the outlining neighborhoods. Turn the school grounds into parks and old folk’s homes to pay for the light rail passes to the Eastside. The only safety net need the parents cannot have a say in how their children are educated. That is why the schools in your neighborhood are failing and that BAD Teachers Union. PS we have not failed a levy in years for the children. What say you?
The math is simple. If Washington citizens are serious about improving education, serious about reducing class size, increasing teacher pay, and raising test scores, then we must increase per student spending. But if voters are equally determined to slash taxes… well then… I thank Tim Eyman for opening my eyes to the harsh reality of this dog-eat-dog world.
And so I offer my modest proposal in the hope of sparking a much needed public debate, and I trust that it will be received in the spirit in which it was intended.
(Originally posted Sep. 9, 2003)
Goldy the math is simpler if your kid’s move to the Eastside for an education. My Liberal neighbors from Seattle had increase by two thirds in the last five years just because of the schools in your neighborhood. The best thing for students in Seattle is that they fired the whole teaching staff and transport the students into the outlining neighborhoods. Turn the school grounds into parks and old folk’s homes to pay for the light rail passes to the Eastside. The only safety net need the parents cannot have a say in how their children are educated. That is why the schools in your neighborhood are failing and that BAD Teachers Union. PS we have not failed a levy in years for the children. What say you?
Can you even imagine a slug like Klake having the sophistication to appreciate good satire? All it can do is copy and paste from Drudge. It probably laughs when Bush laughs, but only because it’s expected, not because it has an actual sense of humor.
My cue has to run has always been “now, don’t think I don’t have a sense of humor, but…”
While I didn’t listen to the show, from what you’ve written I wonder if this is satire or mockery. If a local conservative talk radio host brought a right wing satirical blogger on the air, and he made similar satirical statements about Judaism, would you laugh or condemn the person as an anti-Semite?
Yep let’s put another criminal in charge of the House Intelligence Committee. What is this world coming to when you elected a Socialist Democrats into office you now get a lot of losers running the show.
WASHINGTON — Competition for the post of chairman of the House Intelligence Committee intensified Wednesday with the release of a letter by Rep. Alcee L. Hastings (D-Fla.), who says he deserves the job despite the fact that as a federal judge he was convicted by the Senate and removed from the bench after being impeached for involvement in a bribery plot.
In a rambling letter sent to Democratic members of the House, Hastings lashed out at his critics, saying they were bent on “denying me a position I have certainly earned and am completely competent to perform.”
Hastings is, by seniority, the second-ranking Democrat on the committee, after Rep. Jane Harman of Venice. But Rep. Nancy Pelosi of San Francisco, the House’s incoming speaker, has indicated that when the Democrats take control in January, she plans to take Harman off the committee in favor of someone more critical of the Bush administration’s Iraq war policies.
Re: Klake’s post at 3:30 PM
Klake, you old scoundrel! You didn’t think that I’d recognize Ann Coulter’s “peculiar” style of writing? She has such a unique way of adding in “facts” that are completely unverifiable, but doing so in such vague terms that it is difficult to spot where she heads off into pure fantasy.
and who, exactly would you expect a bunch of Imams to be praying to?
What witnesses? Who made these claims? Amazing how Ms. Coulter seems to be such an intrepid investigator to have found these folks when nobody else seems to have heard of them.
Wow. The religious leaders of over 1 million American citizens gather for a conference, and Ms. Coulter sees this as suspicious. The United Methodist annual conference is coming up. Should we be investigated too?
So much stuffed into one fantasy. First, how does Ms. Stewart come into this at all? Are any of the Imams clients of hers? I would suspect that if that were the case, Ms. Coulter would be shouting it from the rooftops.
Next, does being blind make one a terrorist? Hmmm. There was one blind Muslim that was a terrorist, therefore by Ms. Coulter’s reasoning, all blind Muslims are terrorists.
Hmmm. One blond Christian blew up the building in Oklahoma. Ms. Coulter is a blond that claims to be Christian, and she has even commented on blowing up public buildings. Why isn’t she in Guantanamo?
So, we should be locking up all Imams? Klake, you need not answer this question. We all know that you and Ms. Coulter consider being Muslim to be a criminal act, punishable by death. She has even said so.
This is called the “Big Lie“. I expect that this will be repeated over and over again, until people actually start to believe it. Notice how carefully she worded this. The important phrase is “if I remember correctly“. This is what she hopes will keep her out of court. It might even work, as I suspect that her memory has been seriously degraded by many years of deliberately forgetting the many mistakes the neo-cons have been making over the last six years.
Anyway, thank you again for an entertaining time taking apart another of Ann Coulter’s lunatic ravings. ;-)
Christ, who in the hell woke klake up from his drug induced hibernation?
Regarding the use of satire: remember your audience is primarily the KIRO710 audience and they have little or no education on the “use of wit to criticize behavior.”
I guess it is easier to blame your audience for not getting it than to possibly consider it was an ill-fated idea to begin with or that the delivery wasn’t appropriate. I also think people need a little clue about satire . . . RPH, just because you juxtapose two storylines doesn’t mean people have a point of reference to let them know you’re being satirical. My understanding of satire is that it targets foolishness or vices . . . so I’m not sure how a cute narrative intertwining a Russian invasion with traffic jams (unbelievable as it sounds to me!) really fits “satire.”
Understanding that you are all quite superior in intellect to most of us, I’m wondering if it isn’t possible that reality has come much to close to the satirical so that people really don’t know anymore what is true and what isn’t. I stopped listening when the general came on so surely can’t say whether or not you were really satirical or just scorning other peoples honest values. . . If people were defending honest beliefs, then it is not satire. It is sarcasm, put-down, and dissing them. The target of your satire has to be clearly deserving of it.
I just noticed that Conservative First at 30 said it better and more concisely than I did. I sure agree with him.
The comments in this thread illustrate the point of Goldies story like no mere satire could.
It is not Seattle citizens who are irony deficient, it is Seattle *conservatives* specifically that are irony deficient.
Also, a note for Klake.
When one is not raised in a specific language, satire in that language becomes harder to identify.
Is your excuse based on being raised in an atmosphere of lies of the wingnuts? When one really believes liberals (and muslims and democrats) eat babies, does a baby bbq recipe book then become proof of what you want reality to be rather than the satire it really is?
“Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity has made them good.”
— Henry Mencken
roger your wrong i think its funny that your kid cant find a job.but hey look at the asshole he has for a dad.
roger your wrong i think its funny that your kid cant find a job.but hey look at the asshole he has for a dad.
John Barelli says:
Re: Klake’s post at 3:30 PM
Klake, you old scoundrel! You didn’t think that I’d recognize Ann Coulter’s “peculiar” style of writing? She has such a unique way of adding in “facts” that are completely unverifiable, but doing so in such vague terms that it is difficult to spot where she heads off into pure fantasy.
This is called the “Big Lie“. I expect that this will be repeated over and over again, until people actually start to believe it. Notice how carefully she worded this. The important phrase is “if I remember correctly“. This is what she hopes will keep her out of court. It might even work, as I suspect that her memory has been seriously degraded by many years of deliberately forgetting the many mistakes the neo-cons have been making over the last six years
Well Reverent John then we also can identify your writing also the “Big Lie” One of Adolf Hitler friends Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels many plays on words. If you tell a big lie long enough everyone will believe that lie, but a small lie they will not believe to be true.
““Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels (October 29, 1897 – May 1, 1945) was Adolf Hitler’s Propaganda Minister (see Propagandaministerium) in Nazi Germany. Goebbels was known for his zealous and energetic oratory and virulent anti-Semitism. Following Hitler’s death, he served as Chancellor for one day. He then committed suicide.””
Now Ann Coulter is not the Propaganda Minister of this country or any other, but does sell a lot of books for a living which could be the source for your sarcasm. Now about the first amendment in the constitution we can disregard that when it comes to her for today. Opinions Reverent John everyone has one, and can express them pretty much any way they want. EXCEPT if you are a Republican in this world. You and your friends in the Church of Liberalism are free to do anything you want, RIGHT. No bell curve for you folks it is just a flat line for expression or sharing any though process on any subject matter. Reverent, facts now who has ownership of that information and what makes them vague to the reader. Maybe if they did some home work in school they would be able to identify the sources. Pure FANTASY is the Socialist Democrat way of looking at the world problems and live their own lives.
Now this is one from Germany that plays on words and who has what, how many, or none at all, and your friend Goebbels relished.
“Göring has only got one ball
Hitler’s [are] so very small
Himmler’s so very similar
And Goebbels has no balls at all!
This purported original version is interesting in that Göring has the one ball and Hitler apparently has two and that it starts with Göring. The musical comedy word play of rhyming Goebbels with “no balls” both argue in favor of this being a very early version.”
Klake put down the crack pipe and slowly back away from the table. We are here to help you.
Yo at 38 and 39:
Roger does not confuse your and you’re;there and their; here and hear.
Come back after you finish remedial English. Thanks for proving the theory that all Conservatives are idiots.
Asshole!
Klake at 7:11 PM
Klake old buddy, somehow words escape me. Your post shows your reasoning ability and writing talent at their best.
Just so that anyone reading knows which portions of that post are your own writing (as distinguished from quotes from other writers), I’m posting it again here:
This, ladies and gentlemen, is a classic example of great neo-con gibberish. Sentences that defy any attempt to even diagram them, much less derive some actual meaning from them.
Of particular note is the lack of any coherant paragraph structure. That, along with the improper use of sentence-closing punctuation are what gives klake’s writing the unique “flavor” that only he has managed to perfect.
Still, klake’s writing ability pales in comparison to his reasoning. Notice his reference to the First Amendment, which both he and Ms. Coulter use, but seem to misunderstand. Essentially, he seems to think that criticizing the writings of a neo-con is somehow prohibited by the Constitution.
He also does not seem to use the same definition for the word “fact” that most people use. I tend to use that obviously liberal work known as “Webster’s Dictionary”, which defines “fact” as:
Klake, in his infinite wisdom, seems to have found other definitions for the word, such as:
Yes, klake, your writing should be maintained as the definitive example of neo-conservative gibberish. You are to be applauded for your ability to put together strings of words that have even less meaning than the randomly generated subject lines that SPAMmers use to get their junk past the automatic spam filters.
Klake, I do salute you. Now, please let the nice nurse give you your meds.
Roger Rabbit says:
The solution to Iraq seems clear. All we have to do is occupy the country until there are no Iraqis left. Shouldn’t take more than another six to twelve months. .
Not Bad Roger so this is your PLAN to get us out of Iraq? You know it might world if we change our tactics. But one little question when do you FREE Tibet and how many will die before that happens? General Roger “Thumper” Rabbit is that campaign you are now in charge of today. When is the Chinese going to give you the time line on their exit strategy? OHHH they don’t have to provide one, what strange policies you and your friends apply to them, but not for your own country.
Let’s see if this works.
24 Witnesses said the imams stood to do their evening prayers in the terminal before boarding, chanting “Allah, Allah, Allah” — coincidentally, the last words heard by hundreds of airline passengers on 9/11 before they died.
How do you know, klake? Were you there? In all probability the last words they heard were someone saying, “Oh shit … “
Dur. Nope.
30 A wingfuck complaining about “mockery” is like Ted Bundy complaining about crime.
This?
Hilarious. Now?
Leave it to klake to screw up the formatting.
38 yo says: roger your wrong i think its funny that your kid cant find a job.but hey look at the asshole he has for a dad. 11/24/2006 at 7:00 pm
I’m an asshole! Got a problem with it? Kiss my dick. Hey, I never claimed to be Mother Theresa … get over it! I’m a wingnut fighter — I don’t do nice. Can’t afford to.
“Yo” is a contraction of the word “yahoo” (as in “trailer park yahoo”) and is properly spelled “Y’o.” Like most wingnuts, Y’o can’t spell his own fucking name! And why did it take him so long to figure out I’m an asshole?
44 klake says: Not Bad Roger so this is your PLAN to get us out of Iraq? 11/24/2006 at 7:57 pm
No, it’s YOUR plan. Iraq was YOUR idea! I had nothing to do with Iraq. You pigfuckers OWN this turkey.
The next time you hear a politician use the word “billion” in a casual manner, think about whether you want the “politicians” spending your tax money.
A billion is a difficult number to comprehend, but one advertising agency did a good job of putting that figure into some perspective in one of its releases.
A. A billion seconds ago it was 1959.
B. A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive.
C. A billion hours ago our ancestors were living in the Stone Age.
D. A billion days ago no-one walked on the earth on two feet.
E. A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes, at the rate our government is spending it.
While this thought is still fresh in our brain, let’s take a look at New Orleans. It’s amazing what you can learn with some simple division . . .
Louisiana Senator, Mary Landrieu (D), is presently asking the Congress for $250 BILLION to rebuild New Orleans. Interesting number, what does it mean?
a. Well, if you are one of 484,674 residents of New Orleans (every man, woman, child), you each get $516,528.
b. Or, if you have one of the 188,251 homes in New Orleans, your home gets $1,329,787.
c. Or, if you are a family of four, your family gets $2,066,012.
Washington, D.C. … HELLO!!! . Are all your calculators broken??
This is too true to be very funny.
TAX
Tax his land,
Tax his wage,
Tax his bed in which he lays.
Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes is the rule.
Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.
Tax his ties,
Tax his shirts,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.
Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he tries to think.
Tax his booze,
Tax his beers,
If he cries,
Tax his tears.
Tax his bills,
Tax his gas,
Tax his notes,
Tax his cash.
Tax him good and let him know
That after taxes, he has no dough.
If he hollers,
Tax him more,
Tax him until he’s good and sore.
Tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in which he lays.
Put these words upon his tomb,
“Taxes drove me to my doom!”
And when he’s gone,
We won’t relax,
We’ll still be after the inheritance TAX!!
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax),
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax),
Liquor Tax,
Luxury Tax,
Marriage License Tax,
Medicare Tax,
Property Tax,
Real Estate Tax,
Service charge taxes,
Social Security Tax,
Road Usage Tax (Truckers),
Sales Taxes,
Recreational Vehicle Tax,
School Tax,
State Income Tax,
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA),
Telephone Federal Excise Tax,
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax,
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Tax,
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax,
Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax,
Telephone State and Local Tax,
Telephone Usage Charge Tax,
Utility Tax,
Vehicle License Registration Tax,
Vehicle Sales Tax,
Watercraft Registration Tax,
Well Permit Tax,
Workers Compensation Tax.
COMMENTS: Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago
And there was prosperity, absolutely no national debt, the largest middle class in the world and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
What happened?????
40 years of democraps
Klake at 44:
Rogers comment was satire. Dumb fucking asshole!
See I told you so at 54:
Might want to wipe off those rose colored glasses.
My Left Foot says:
Klake at 44:
Rogers comment was satire. Dumb fucking asshole!
Mr. Left Foot and I twisted his comments and Roger isn’t a dumb f@%#$ing asshole!!!! He does have his problems but really a nice little man trying to express himself in many different ways. Now Mr. Left Foot did you help any little old ladies across the street today. Did you give a poor bum a dime? Oh! Did you hug are poor starving child crying on the street? Do you plan to say something nice to someone over the Holidays? Please go to Church with Reverent John Barelli you would make him proud to have such an outstanding person like you join him in prayer. Yes we all still love you too so please don’t jump off any bridges.
I’m not sure how you could take what I said as complaining. I considered it an observation.
So I take it you wouldn’t clain anti-Semitism if someone from the right mocked Judaism? Instead your sophisticated understanding of humor would cause you to laugh at the satire?
John Barelli says:
Klake at 7:11 PM
Klake old buddy, somehow words escape me. Your post shows your reasoning ability and writing talent at their best.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is a classic example of great neo-con gibberish. Sentences that defy any attempt to even diagram them, much less derive some actual meaning from them.
Of particular note is the lack of any coherent paragraph structure. That, along with the improper use of sentence-closing punctuation are what gives klake’s writing the unique “flavor” that only he has managed to perfect.
Still, klake’s writing ability pales in comparison to his reasoning. Notice his reference to the First Amendment, which both he and Ms. Coulter use, but seem to misunderstand. Essentially, he seems to think that criticizing the writings of a neo-con is somehow prohibited by the Constitution.
He also does not seem to use the same definition for the word “fact” that most people use. I tend to use that obviously liberal work known as “Webster’s Dictionary”, which defines “fact” as:
Klake, in his infinite wisdom, seems to have found other definitions for the word, such as:
Yes, klake, your writing should be maintained as the definitive example of neo-conservative gibberish. You are to be applauded for your ability to put together strings of words that have even less meaning than the randomly generated subject lines that Spammers use to get their junk past the automatic spam filters.
Klake, I do salute you. Now, please let the nice nurse give you your meds.
Ohhhhh! Reverent John Barelli you are so sweet with comments tonight and very little on understanding, but that’s ok. Now I don’t profess to have great writing skills, but you and others seem to remind me of that short coming. Now I accept the criticism and accept the source presenting the demeaning insults, but it does not diminish the message. Reverent I do not insult the massager telling me there is danger ahead even though he/she can only speak broken English and they only express themselves in Arabic. That could be disastrous for myself and the folks that I lead during these dangerous times. Brother I live in the world of reality not one you and your friends claim is a utopia that will never materialize in our life time. The real Truth is you would do a better job of saving souls than condemning them to hell by the way you express yourself. You should stick to reading your Bible until your mind follows your emotions and your hart is express by your mouth. Reverent John we are in a Religious war, now you are the light at the end of the tunnel, and that light cannot diminish with your anger. Remember prayer is the answer for our success and not some left wing ideology. So now to support us solider do what you do best and preach in the name of the Lord. Amen Reverent John Barelli. PS the only drug that I use is for high blood pleasure I’m not at the advance stages as my friend Roger.
Too bad that the Klake family is made up of cut-and-run cowards and commies. Otherwise we’d offer to go to Iraq. But then again as republicans, we’d rather send ANYONE else to do our fighting for us thank you.
Fox wanting to start a right wing political humor show as a retaliation against, The Daily Show, is the kind thing a satirist might dream up as a skit mocking the right’s humor challenge.
Here’s “satire ” the right can understand:
Conservative Republican = NAZI FASCIST!!!!!!!
(hehe)
If you want REAL satire:
http://www.irna.com/en/news/vi.....152856.htm
Those mad mullahs in Iran sure now how to do comedy! They entertain their followers with stories of how the the US and those dastardly Zionists are the ones who assassinated Gemeyal in Lebanon.
What’s even better satire is all the Democrats (and the bipartisan Iraq committee) who want to engage the Iranians and Syrians in dialogue! That’s a hoot!
Oh, wait, the Democrats are serious . . .
Here’s another great conservative satirical jape: “Listen up! There’s this rich Seattle LIBERAL driving around in his new Landrover sipping a latte with his pinkie in the air and saying: ‘ I sure want to help poor people but they can’t pitch their tent in MY YARD!!’ (hehe) And get this, he’s talking like Thurston Howell III!!!”
And for those of you who are so smart, you sure didn’t catch the big setup that the imams pulled in Phoenix. This was a scam from the beginning, meant to get lots of media attention and sympathy from the left. The cameras were sure there quickly.
klake says: ””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
re 65: Security cameras, bimbo.
If you doubt that Seattle lacks an irony gene, witness the fate of ‘Ask a Mexican’ in the Seattle Weekly.
Is that hour of JC Christian and yourself going to be available as a podcast or something?
Roger Rabbit says:
44 klake says: Not Bad Roger so this is your PLAN to get us out of Iraq? 11/24/2006 at 7:57 pm
No, it’s YOUR plan. Iraq was YOUR idea! I had nothing to do with Iraq. You pigfuckers OWN this turkey.
11/24/2006 at 8:11 pm
No Roger it was not my plan to destroy two towers and damage the pentagon with our own aircraft. We did not carry chemical gear all over the world for years because we knew there were no weapons of mass destruction. Those dead people I saw in Kuwait that Saddam Hussein’s troops murdered were a figment of my own imagination. Yes Roger we took that country to its knees in a matter of days and made mistakes doing it, but nothing perfect. Not believing in conquering a nation we lack the skill sets to occupy a country and change it course in history like Germany and Japan. The lessons are being learned and we will progress on the course of success and there may be some peace in the Middle East in the future. But don’t take my word of optimism as the path will not have many setbacks but in the end we will prevail. Now Roger how is your plan of selling bumper stickers working on freeing Tibet?
Headless – I was referring to the “complaining” the imams’ lawyer did right after the incident at the airline counter. He made sure his “protest” was caught on camera. Nothing like a little publicity.
You really are humorless.
rhp6033@11;
Hopefully you kept a transcript of that speech, it sounds hilarious.
Well, my attempt at resetting the formatting didn’t fix it either
I just fixed the formating.
Klake… (and others)… don’t use tags unless you know how to close them. For example, if you want to italicize something by putting < i > before it, be sure to close it with < /i >.
And by the way… I provided the live preview so you could see how your comments are formatted before submitting them. Please use it.
I’ve got to admit. Nothing is funnier than mocking a religious group. Better immortalize that hour of radio. Cheap humor at someone else’s expense is worth a rerun now and then!
re 74: You mean like conservatives calling Muslims, Ragheads”? You are an ass.
Janet says: What’s even better satire is all the Democrats (and the bipartisan Iraq committee) who want to engage the Iranians and Syrians in dialogue! That’s a hoot!
Oh, wait, the Democrats are serious . . .
Oh so true, wise Janet . . . let’s all ride those bombs right down to the target ala George C. Scott in Dr. Strangelove the Bible on diplomacy for you Rethuglicans.
Now that’s satire.
SeeIToldYouSo! says:
The next time you hear a politician use the word “billion” in a casual manner, think about whether you want the “politicians” spending your tax money.
Louisiana Senator, Mary Landrieu (D), is presently asking the Congress for $250 BILLION to rebuild New Orleans. Interesting number, what does it mean?
a. Well, if you are one of 484,674 residents of New Orleans (every man, woman, child), you each get $516,528.
b. Or, if you have one of the 188,251 homes in New Orleans, your home gets $1,329,787.
c. Or, if you are a family of four, your family gets $2,066,012.
Washington, D.C. … HELLO!!! . Are all your calculators broken??
This is too true to be very funny.
Well, perhaps you should ask Haliburton, Bechtel and probably-on-his-way-to-becoming-a-billionaire Cheny what they think . . .
Just curious . . . is this satire? (Friday’s cartoon . . . might have to select it.)
Here’s the permanent link to said cartoon.
And while I’m at it, is suggesting that ketchup is a vegetable satire?
skagit@80;
Well, since it’s a fruit, yes I guess a bit of satire is in there.
Didn’t you libtard Moonbat!s claim WA is getting bluer and bluer? Didn’t you libtard moonbats claim Bellevue is getting bluer so Darcy Moonbat! would win? Do you think neocons would waste our time listening to Goldie’s show?
This post proves the libtard in charge of education is a disaster already happened!
STUPID Moonbat! Political Correctness is a Moonbat! donk libtard invention. Ever since the Moonbats! took charge from 1967 when we were #1 in the world in K-12 academics to now being #23 in the world, it is YOU the Libtard Moonbat! who is poisoning our young’uns with Sally has two daddies and Joey has too mommies and other nonsense.
Remember Ted Kennedy was all for Education Reform and the No Child Left Behind Act, and he helped write it when he was Senate Education Committee Chairman. He just wanted to spend more money that Rod Paige did.
http://www.education-world.com.....s309.shtml
“Pastor” John Barelli: I came across this in my Bible Readings. Kind of reminds me of Seattle:
Ezekiel 16:49-50 New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
49 ” ‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
I wonder what that could be. What is the root word for the city name back then mean today? Sounds like the Moonbat!s KLake was describing!
David: No, I didn’t save the speech. I’m not sure I could re-create it, you really have to be in just the right mood to make something like that work.
As for the poster who commented on KIRO Radio, I would make an exception for Dave Ross.
Finally, I would like to thank Janet S. for adding more humor to my day, with a continued use of the Wingnut Tool of the Month: Anytime wingnuts get caught on tape doing something wrong, they claim it was a ‘setup”! Gee, the expanded use oof security cameras has sure been inconvenient for them, hasn’t it?
Mr Socialist: Here is some satire for you. You have to love how your good friend Vladimir Putin gets rid of his political enemies. Socialism and Communism, friends of the Moonbat!s. I wonder if Bernie Sanders…
It’s on Yahoo news Poisoned spy blames Putin for his death By JILL LAWLESS, Associated Press Writer Fri Nov 24, 5:36 PM ET
These comments make an old English teacher cringe….
Janet S said:
Yes, so much better for there to be no cameras, no publicity, no trial… Just have them quietly whisked off to some secret prison.
Mr. Sucks said:
Odd how somehow you and klake have managed to get me ordained, but if that works for you…
Your readings from Ezekiel were interesting choices. Whether they pertain to Seattle the way they did to Jeruselem is for others to decide.
But, if you want to read something from Ezekiel that might be pertinent to the current situation in Iraq, you might try Ezekiel 16:20-22. I’ll also use the NIV
Goldie, satire is supposed to push beyond the limits of believability at some point. The problem with the interview the other day was the General didn’t say anything that was out of line for a right winger. I’ve heard a lot crazier things on Fox.
Maybe we have a different type of humor out here in the sticks of Indiana, but I listened to the complete interview and was literally rolling, especially over the irate callers. Are you sure this wasn’t scripted? It was almost too funny not to be. Please keep us posted on any future appearances by the General. I would hate to miss a chance to hear more of him live, even though I check his blog at least a half dozen times a day to make sure I don’t miss anything there. Thank you very much for the entertaining interview.
Just goes to show you how lame Dori Monson’s audience is. I used to like him till he drank the pro-war Kool-Aid and became a hack for the GOP. He also aided and abetted the Swiftboaters and that was unforgivable…
You guys are dense. The kerfuffle with the imams on the airline was a big set up, meant to get publicity. They planned out the most outrageous behavior they could do, without doing anyting technically illegal, but would get the passengers and crew agitated enough to ask for their removal.
The plan worked, and the lawyer made sure he got himself onto the news. Heck, the local guys even tried to get their pathetic protest at Seatac on the evening news.
I guess it is okay to satirize Christians and right wingers. Maybe Goldy should bring on a guy pretending to be a true Islamic believer, but is really just mocking the religion and the fanatics. Won’t happen, he is too afraid for his safety and would feel bad about it.
David says:
skagit@80;
Well, since it’s a fruit, yes I guess a bit of satire is in there.
Ah, another humorless conservative? who misses the point? Maybe Goldy is right.
And Janet, poor dear, you really hate that religion don’t you? Of course, the Christians who bomb abortion clinics are a-okay I’m sure.
Janet S says:
Hmmm. Praying is the most outrageous behaviour they could do without getting arrested?
How dare they? Where do they think they are, anyway? Some sort of free country where people are allowed to just go ahead and pray in a public place?
We have to stop this sort of behaviour. If not, prayer might break out in other places! Folks on the street might actually start saying things like “God bless you” and “may God keep you safe”.
Why, the next thing that would happen is that people might actually start to respect each other! Our whole society might collapse if people actually treated each other decently!
Yeah, Janet. Strap on those bombs! Go girl!
I think the capt of the flight, having had sensitivity training, should have invited all passengers and crew to joing in the prayers. Of course, any atheists would immediately become offended and demand that no praying by anyone at anytime occur. Soon the ACLU would have to get involved, suing the airline for discrimination of atheists. The airline, already struggling under intense financial pressure, would have to ask it’s workers to take a paycut to keep from filing bankruptcy. the unions would strike, the airline would fail and in the end, we all end up riding our bikes anyway!
91 Janet S
“The kerfuffle with the imams on the airline was a big set up, meant to get public”
On what evidence of their intent do you base your conclusion? Certainly none that you have presented.
When was the last time an abortion clinic was bombed?
When was the last time an Islamic radical assassinated a public figure? Or a bunch of innocent shoppers?
Being on a airplane and hearing very loud “praying”, using the language of the average Islamic radical right before he blows himself up would be a truly frightening experience.
Janet S
Are you sure it was “praying?” It might have been praying.
Janet S.
According to National Abortion Federation, the last recorded clinic bombing was n 2001, but they list eight arson attacks since then. And at least one anthrax attack.
Janet S
““praying”, using the language of the average Islamic radical right before he blows himself up”
You mean, using the name of God as all one billion Muslims do whenever they pray. Yes, truly “frightening.” And I mean that in the sense that you meant they were “praying.”
Although I do think people should be frightened by anyone ignorant and superstitious enough to be religious.
Right Stuff says:
I think the capt of the flight, having had sensitivity training, should have invited all passengers and crew to joing in the prayers. Of course, any atheists would immediately become offended and demand that no praying by anyone at anytime occur. Soon the ACLU would have to get involved, suing the airline for discrimination of atheists. The airline, already struggling under intense financial pressure, would have to ask it’s workers to take a paycut to keep from filing bankruptcy. the unions would strike, the airline would fail and in the end, we all end up riding our bikes anyway!
Good satire! Even you know the riduculousness of your scenario . . . thanks for a good laugh!
Janet, you are one bigoted bitch. I’ll say that for ya.
And what happened to those who attacked abortion clinics? Did the Christians in this country have large parades for them, and name them honored soldiers of God? I don’t think so. Americans of all faiths condemn such behavior. Compare that to the Islamists in London after the bombings there.
Muslims know as well as everyone else that the final words of suicide bombers tend to be “Allah Akbar”. So why would a reasonable man imitate this behavior on an airplane? Why purposely provoke? Muslims have been flying as long as everyone else, and yet this is the first time I have heard of this happening.
You who understand satire so well certainly aren’t going to get sucked in by a good publcity stunt by some radical imams. Of course not.
Nor do we judge all by the actions of a few. Any good Christian should know that as well.
I’m not judging the whole, only the few who insist on provocative behavior. And those who encourage it by being political sensitive to those who want us dead.
Janet S. wrote:
Janet, isn’t it at all possible that six devout and entirely peaceful Muslim clerics would be honestly praying before getting onto a flight, for no reason other than a desire to pray?
Isn’t it possible that a few folks, after listening to any number of far-right pundits spout on about all Muslims being terrorists might just have overreacted when six Muslim clerics prayed in a way that would not have raised an eyebrow if it was a group of Christian ministers?
Now if I was to be removed from a public conveyance by security for no reason other than my praying before getting onto a flight, I would hope that my lawyer was close enough to help me make a very large stink about it to the airlines, news media and anyone else around.
Being that they were coming from a convention of Muslim clerics, it is not surprising that a Muslim lawyer was close enough to help them make that stink. Frankly, any passing lawyer that has any respect for the Constitution should have stood up and volunteered to help the Imams on the spot.
The Coulters, Limbaughs and you have all started with the assumption that these Muslim clerics could not possibly have been simply praying in the fashion and at the times required by their religion.
You have absolutely no evidence to support that assumption, and without it, this becomes simply a case of a frightened public demanding that a public conveyance discriminate against Muslims.
Just to avoid any argument about definitions, “public conveyance” is not specifically defined in Washington law, but is in several other states, including Minnesota.
Essentially, if you believe that all Muslims are fakes, that they aren’t really praying, but are simply putting on an act, then (and only then) does your argument hold up.
If the Muslim clerics are actually devote Muslims that really believe in the teachings of their religion, then your argument falls apart.
Hypothetical: Timothy McVeigh was observed handling a rosary before the Oklahoma bombing incident. So, now we should be fearful of anyone with a rosary present in high traffic and otherwise vulnerable areas?
I don’t know if McVeigh was even religious. But, say he was and it happened that way . . . afterall, do you know that he wasn’t?
Anyone who is religious is going to demonstrate that religiosity. If you choose to be fearful all the time, then you will be. Use some common sense, Janet.
One more bit for Janet S. and all those who use her reasoning.
Some of you will be saying “He just doesn’t understand! We’re fighting for our lives here! These people want to kill us all!”
Yes, I do understand. Some (not all, but certainly some) Muslims want to kill Americans. They see us as the “Great Satan” and feel that it is their sacred duty to kill as many of us as possible. They would happily die if they could take my family, all my loved ones and me with them in as horrible and painful a death as possible.
I refuse to submit to them.
I refuse to become what they believe me to be, just to maintain my physical safety.
Freedom, including the freedom of those who would kill me, is far more important than life. I can be a slave to fear, hiding in my home and giving up the freedoms that others have died for in order to be safe.
Or, I can stand up, refuse to give in to fear, and be free.
“you can’t conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him.” Robert Heinlein
104 Janet S
“the final words of suicide bombers tend to be “Allah “Allah Akbar”.”
That would be Allahu Akbar, or “God is great.” It is a common feature of Muslim speech and prayer. It has nothing specific to do with the intentions or actions of suicide bombers, other than a general invocation of the almighty. But like Christians, Muslims are idiots.
“So why would a reasonable man imitate this behavior on an airplane? Why purposely provoke?”
Why would a religious Muslim use the most common phrase in Islamic worship while praying? Gee, you got me there.
“Muslims have been flying as long as everyone else, and yet this is the first time I have heard of this happening. ”
I’m sre we can rely on what you know to inform us all.
“You who understand satire so well certainly aren’t going to get sucked in by a good publcity stunt by some radical imams.”
Again, on what evidence do you base your statement regarding their intentions? Or rather, admit that you have none.
Oh, you err, Daddy Love. Janet has “faith” and that will suffice for her. She “knows what she knows.” Her Truth is the Bible and her Bible is Truth. Amen.
Ah, Daddy Love.
You and I could have an interesting conversation about your religious intolerance.
Please understand that I, as a Christian, can respect an honest agnostic or atheist. One rather famous Christian, C.S. Lewis once stated that a person who honestly professes atheism is closer to God than a person who recites the Bible without actual belief.
What I have never understood is the apparent need in some atheists to prosletize.
Christians that preach to others do so with the belief (you are welcome to consider this belief to be mistaken) that they are helping others.
Mind you, as a former agnostic, I never much cared for folks that proseltize. They annoyed me. Now, as a Christian, I hold much the same opinion, but for a different reason. It doesn’t work (and annoys the people you’re trying to help).
But, why would an atheist want to convert others? If someone is comforted by their beliefs, what does it matter to you if they are mistaken? And, if the few that do prosletize annoy you, remember that they are trying to do you good, and the kind of openness needed to do that is very difficult.
“Thank you, but I do not share your faith, but appreciate your caring” will normally (no, not always, as we have folks that don’t listen well, either) suffice to get someone to quit bothering you.
Remember, the vast majority of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and other faiths only wish you well. We may hope and pray that you will come around to our beliefs, but again, we would rather you be honestly atheist than be a counterfeit Christian.
Should you find yourself interested in what we actually believe (rather than what others say we believe) you might try reading “Mere Christianity” by C.S. Lewis.
Or not, your call. But please, even if you do not understand or share my faith, I ask that you respect it, as I do yours.
I look at the facts of the situation, you all want to paint me as a religious fanatic. Seems a bit ironic.
Show me one instance where Muslims felt it necessary to burst out in loud prayer as they were boarding a plane, and then to ask for extentions on their seat belts although none were needed. This has never happened before.
Islam is a respectful religion that neither flaunts beliefs or taunts others. Same with observant Jews and Christians -prayers are between the individual and their God. In a church or in a congregation, believers share their relation to God with their fellow congregants. There is no reason to force others to participate in their prayers.
I’m not a religious person. I resent those who hide behind their religion to pursue their political beliefs, especially when those beliefs are to bring down the society that they so comfortably live in.
You all are hypocrits. If this same behavior was done by Christian Fundamentalists, you’d be in an uproar. Look at your attitude towards me. You are assuming that I am a right wing Christian, and want to squelch my criticism. Instead I criticise a backward and mysogistic movement, that is the antipathy of true Islam.
113 JB
Thanks. You’re a reasonable person. But I am no Atheist. However, I find Christianity, Islam, and other religions to be sincere but badly mistaken at best, and ranging from ridiculous to dangerous at worst. It is in part an arrogant Christianity that persuaded us to approve our murderous leap into the the bloodbath of sectarian and ethnic violence we have unleashed on Iraq. It is in part an arrogant and misguided Islam that has taken innocent lives the world over in or last few decades.
I consider most people to be good hearted and I assume that their good intentions spring from that innate sensibility and not from their religious delusions. In other words, were they to adhere to a different religious flavor or none at all I am sure they would behave with similar good will. Mere religiosity is no guarantee of good intentions.
114 Janet S
You still refuse to admit you have no evidence for your assumption about the imams’ intent, yet you have continued to accuse them without evidence of staging their own forcible removal from an airline flight to their homes. Yes, it’s all oh so believable.
“I resent those who hide behind their religion to pursue their political beliefs, especially when those beliefs are to bring down the society that they so comfortably live in.”
So you voted for Democrats this year?
You are the hypocrit, Janet. You would allow Christians to practice their faith but not Muslims. Simply put. Change the facts to fit your scenario all you wish, you are painting with a brush too broadly for any intelligent, objective and fair-minded person to accept.
Let’s review what we know. Six Muslims arrive at an airport. They pray loudly in the waiting area. Once on board, they ask for extentions to their seat belts. Some of them have purchased one way tickets with cash. When asked to leave, they protest loudly and resist.
The lawyer that shows up to defend them in their home town has known ties to radical Islamist groups. More than one of the “imams” has ties to mosques that are known to preach hate of America.
Guess I’m just being a little alarmist. I still can’t figure out why this progressive site continues to defend those who want to hide women behind veils and throw gays from the the rooftops.
Janet says: Guess I’m just being a little alarmist. I still can’t figure out why this progressive site continues to defend those who want to hide women behind veils and throw gays from the the rooftops.
How quickly we move from facts of an incident to total scorn for an entire religion. I think your statement speaks for itself.
Show me one instance where Muslims felt it necessary to burst out in loud prayer as they were boarding a plane, and then to ask for extentions on their seat belts although none were needed. This has never happened before.
Gee Janet, if thats never happened before, that flight I took in 1984 where I couldnt sleep because the guy behind gripping his seat with white knuckles mummering ‘Allahu Akbar’ must not have happened. Thanks for ‘fixing’ my reality.
BTW, I was on that flight with a one way ticket bought in cash (cause I was in the Navy and changing duty station, the ticket was out of my per diem).
Interesting factoid, when my mom flys, she always gets a seat belt extension because the belts wrinkle her clothing.
Oh, Bill, your story is cute. Someone mumbling in fear of flight is certainly the same as a group of men being quite vocal, and defying authority. I’m sure that the first thought of those around him were that he might be violent. Amazing what the perspective of time gets you. Thanks for sharing a story that is 23 years old. Got anything since 9/11?
And your mother? I’m glad to hear that she doesn’t want to wrinkle her clothes. I’m also glad that you see the moral equivelence.
Janet S says:
Oh, Bill, your story is cute. Someone mumbling in fear of flight is certainly the same as a group of men being quite vocal, and defying authority. I’m sure that the first thought of those around him were that he might be violent. Amazing what the perspective of time gets you. Thanks for sharing a story that is 23 years old. Got anything since 9/11?
And your mother? I’m glad to hear that she doesn’t want to wrinkle her clothes. I’m also glad that you see the moral equivelence.
Every single item you post gets knocked down for its foolishness and you call us dense? Again, you are a bigoted bitch. . .
I loves me some Jesus General, but then again I’ve also been told before that I’m ‘quite the reader, there, aren’t you Pointdexter?’
It seems to me you escalated your listeners to thermonuclear armageddon-level satire pretty abruptly… Maybe you should have worked up to the General more gently, say by sneaking up on them with some Jon Swift or Betty Bowers.
Good to see everyone stay on topic and not meander from the subject at hand. Nice to see that everyone has their spelling well in hand and wouldn’t type hypocrit for hypocrite. MikeWebb, do you ever get out and stay away from your computer for any length of time? If not, maybe you should. klake, same for you. Why anyone should pay any attention to your inferior minds is a wonder and you should be grateful. I doubt that you do. But every child needs attention, even it it is negative attention.
Well, Skagit, I’m glad you are a fan of a religion that keeps its women under a veil and finds homosexuality to be punishable by death. Fortunately, those who practice this particular religion in the US do not take it to the extremes that is common in other countries. So far, though, I haven’t seen any protests from those religious leaders in this country against abuses elsewhere.
I used to be a good Catholic girl until the leadership decided to coddle pedophiles instead of kicking them out. Too bad that Muslims aren’t exercising the same oversight.
Thanks for the laugh, Seattle Dan. We must remember that conventions have a place in posting . . . and for some form over substance is a true priority. Thanks for the reminder!
Janet,
You don’t know if Muslims are or aren’t trying to provide “oversight” whatever that means.
I used to be a good Catholic girl until the leadership decided to coddle pedophiles instead of kicking them out. Too bad that Muslims aren’t exercising the same oversight.
The same oversight as you? or as the leadership which you admit seems to be “coddling” pedophiles? You certainly seem to asking for more from them than you’re demanding from your own . . . again, you paint with an unwieldy, uninformed and very subjective brush.
BTW, look at how many muslims continue wearing the traditional garb even in America? Look how long it took for people to accept women wearing pants in this country. How can you be so judgmental? Some generosity of spirit and faith that we are more alike than different might be more productive. How different do you really think they are?
Spare me. Muslims in Canada are actively working to make sharia the law that governs them. Muslims in Holland have death threats against law makers. Iranians Muslims are assassinating leaders in Lebanon. Muslims in Thailand are killing teachers. Muslims in Iraq are killing other Muslims.
Let’s not be judgmental. Let’s all just get along.
BTW, should Seattle Muslim children who attend public schools be given facilities to pray in during school hours and supervised by taxpayer-paid employees?
I am actually on the fence about this one.
Where do you stand?
No. We have here a separation between church and state. If religion (which is equal to government in this country) is so important, they can attend religious schools just like Christians do. If they wish to pray in school and it can be done privately – no one can stop a child or adult from praying – so be it. No problem with that.
That is a problem for them . . . but we clearly made that Constitutional decision a few hundred years ago.
Perhaps I’m simplifying too much . . . but that’s a no brainer for me. Perhaps you have information that muddies the water a bit . . . ?
I meant to say “not equal to government” in this country. Where government=religion, it is a problem. But, not in America for me.
Janet, you asked someone to show you an instance, I showed you an instance. A group of muslim clerics are just as apt to pray in public as a group of christian clerics, who by the way tend to do exactly what these guys did in airports right down to the loud public prayers and seatbelt extensions to avoid wrinkling clothing.
So now you are saying that muslim should not pray in public at all because of 9/11? Should christians pray in public after the OK city bombings?
In my opinion, muslim children should only get a separate place to pray if and only if children of all other religions are given a similar resource. (although I am more than a little curious about what the special room for the athiests looks like).
As far as muslims trying to establish sharia as law of the land, what exactly did you think christians pushing laws forbidding gay marriage is?
Bill, you open up a can of worms when you try to provide everything to everybody. Religion in this country as no business in schools. That extra room you talk about is a private school devoted to religion as well as education. Let’s keep it that way.
Hence why one would make a comment like that on a thread devoted to satire, don’t you think? ;-)
I must have missed the satire gene when being molecularized! Thanks for the reminder!