The sanctity of dying

Knute Berger addresses the issue with a calmer, more measured voice than mine, but comes to the same conclusion.

I don’t know whether or not Terri Schiavo’s feeding tube should be pulled. I don’t know whose wishes her husband or parents are trying to honor, other than their own. A husband sees his wife in an irreversible vegetative state and naturally wants to end such suffering; her parents see the child they gave life to and aren’t ready to give up hope. There is nothing unique in this struggle or the pain it causes

Comments

  1. 2

    marks spews:

    Well said, indeed. I am still supremely pissed that Congress and the President violated federalism in their push to pander. I would not be surprised if this precident reverberates into other areas…that, of course, assumes this was the first transgression and not a subsequent ripple in the pond.

  2. 3

    jim spews:

    swatter @1: BS. EVERY person I’ve talked with in a similar situation confirms the sentiment in the first paragraph. EVEN my republican right-to-life friends.

    This is using an emotional issue for political purposes. Disgraceful.

    Even Dave Reichert, RIGHT WING republican, got it right.

  3. 4

    Chee spews:

    Goldy.
    That article is just how I see it. It puts all the many issues in perspective. Thanks for posting it. It is a sad but true human interest story too highly exploited.

  4. 5

    Janet S spews:

    It sounds like the memo with GOP talking points is, shall we say, unsubstantiated? (See Powerlineblog.com) This has been a big issue with the left, when it comes to blaming the right for politicizing all this. Maybe some MSM (ABC, WAPO) should be a little more careful what they accept as documentation. You’d have thought the Dan Rather mess would have put them on notice.

  5. 7

    marks spews:

    Mark Davis guest column @ Dallas News: Lies and exaggerations in the name of Schiavo:

    ”But back here in the world of lucid discourse, the rest of us are called to make some attempt at clarity.
    I will not check my conservatism at the door of this gut-wrenching controversy. States’ rights and the rule of law are not to be shelved when they lead to a conclusion that rattles our pro-life sensibilities.”

    Said even better, IMO.

    BTW – Mark Davis is apparently a talk radio personality, but I don’t hold that against him since he can write a decent opinion article…link to follow…registration required (I don’t make the rules, I just follow the law)…

    Janet S @5
    On the GOP “talking points memo”, I followed it for a minute, until the “memo” produced looked like something I typed on Word. Similar to Dan Rather’s implosion…

  6. 9

    Chee spews:

    Re Jeb Bush and another day of court. Just heard on nightly news aboout Jeb Bush’s attempt this morning to get CPA to take custody of Terri, claiming abuse. This also was turned down by a Florida judge. Prez Bush came on saying, they have done all they can. CPA? Now one would think that was out of their jurisdiction.

  7. 10

    Erik spews:

    It is not enough to say you are “pro-life” if that doesn’t include respecting the intimacy and tough moral decisions that are made in the privacy of the dying room, a place where politics should never show its face

    Interestling, with the biggest news and political even event goin on right now with Terri Schiavo, and every Blog, TV and radio station, and web page going 24/7, SP is ….utterly silent.

    They must know it is their party who is making the crazy governmental power grabs. Their party who is making an A@@ of themselves.

    I was hoping one their moderates like Matt would step up to the plate on this one and call the Neo Cons out on the carpet…we will see.

  8. 11

    jpgee spews:

    Erik @ 10 I do not believe that USP will get involved in this issue. They are who they are but some of them do have a little bit of decency and common sense. Maybe their being quiet is the best thing they have ‘blogged’ on in the past 4 months.

  9. 12

    Erik spews:

    Erik @ 10 I do not believe that USP will get involved in this issue. They are who they are but some of them do have a little bit of decency and common sense.

    I think its because they are embarrassed.

    They know the GOP is acting against all principles that they claim they stand for: less government and keeping government out of people’s lives.

    That what they say anyway when its an issue moderates and liberals love.

    Every day we hear them rant about their purported “freedoms” that individuals have and how government should not stifle
    them.

    With the Schiavo case, the federal government is acting in an unprecedented intrustion in a family and doctors personal decision.

    Yet not a peep from SP. Oh well. Wouldn’t want to irritate the all mighty right to lifers would we?

  10. 13

    Goldy spews:

    Perhaps (u)SP is too busy pretending people still care about the gubernatorial election to blog on an issue people actually care about? Or maybe it’s just a case of “if you don’t have anything nasty to say, don’t say anything at all.”

  11. 14

    jcricket spews:

    Janet – Please spare us your sanctimony about “politicizing” the issue. It’s the GOP, time and again, that have sought to attempted to pass laws in both state and federal venues.

    As Barney Frank eloquently put it, “If you don’t want a decision to be made politically, why in the world do you ask 535 politicians to make it?”

    It’s the GOP’s decision to make this a political (rather than just legal) issue, and they are reaping the consequences of their actions right now.

  12. 15

    Janet S spews:

    Both side are politicizing the issue. I just want one side to stop lying about the tactics being used by the other side, and for the MSM to stop publishing false information. Is that asking too much?

  13. 17

    Erik spews:

    Both side are politicizing the issue. I just want one side to stop lying about the tactics being used by the other side

    I don’t think so.

    The matter was not “politicized” until the GOP took action. Jeb Bush with the Florida legislature passed a law that tried to interfere. Then his brother and the GOP Congress have now passed a special law to try to placate the right to lifers.

    The federal interference with a state health matter lies with the GOP alone.

  14. 18

    Janet S spews:

    None of which justifies ABC or The Washington Post accusing the GOP of publishing a “talking points memo” on how to make hay with the issue. They went with the story without verifying first. If they can’t make the story with the facts, then they shouldn’t be in the business. The MSM has gotten lazy.

  15. 20

    Don spews:

    Janet @ 18

    Even if the memo turns out to be true, you will deny it. Right-wing motto: If caught, deny and lie. Basically the same thing criminals do.

  16. 22

    Diggindude spews:

    Its depressing over at (u)SP.
    They had what, 20 posts all day? Real interesting site.
    They wont let me post over there, must be my accent.

  17. 23

    Erik spews:

    They had what, 20 posts all day? Real interesting site.
    They wont let me post over there, must be my accent.

    What did you do to get banned?

  18. 25

    Chee spews:

    What has happened to Terri was of her own making. Guy Fox, one her attorneys, called it a “LOST LESSON.” She was a fat chubby child and by high school weighed 200 lbs. What were her parents thinking? Social pressure and interest in men caused Terri to starve herself, doing the throw up your food as all bulimics do. By 26 was a thin raving beauty who had attracted her man; no longer 200 lbs. Terri’s health dwindled as she became more and more emnacipated, refusing to eat. What did her parents think? She was living on nothing but fluids all day and iced tea. Now, the issue is whether to feed her or not to keep her alive. Now her parents step up to the plate! The root of her problem was obesity, something parents should have dealt with in her childhood.

  19. 26

    Diggindude spews:

    erik@23
    I havent been able to post over there since i disagreed with them about the election.
    Long time ago
    first they deleted all my posts, then they stopped letting me post.

  20. 27

    Chee spews:

    Five members of the House Of The Reps. were instrumental in this emergency filing according to news report. Lawyers for the parents of Theresa Marie Schiavo shortly before 11 p.m. Wednesday asked the Supreme Court to order the re-insertion of a feeding tube until lower courts hear constitutional challenges to a state judge’s order to withdraw food and water.

  21. 29

    jim spews:

    swatter@28

    I respect your positions. I also am glad to live in a country where people can post their opinions. I’m also glad that the majority of Americans, conservatives, liberals, democrats and republicans disagree with your position on this issue. I hope they have your respect too.

  22. 31

    jim spews:

    erik@23

    FYI, I volunatirly stopped posting over there. It’s clear well reasoned dissent has no place on that website. Kudos to Goldy for giving all opinions a place here.

    PS…they love name calling when logic fails their arguments (I became a “troll” and worse. Even folks here use the same techniques. Amazing that they don’t realize it reflects poorly on them and even more poorly on their arguments.

  23. 32

    jim spews:

    erik@23

    FYI, I volunatirly stopped posting over there. It’s clear well reasoned dissent has no place on that website. Kudos to Goldy for giving all opinions a place here.

    PS…they love name calling when logic fails their arguments (I became a “troll” and worse. Even folks here use the same techniques. Amazing that they don’t realize it reflects poorly on them and even more poorly on their arguments.

  24. 33

    Diggindude spews:

    Whats b.s., is trying to tie two very separate issues here, together as one.
    This emotional attack on the supporters of michael schiavo, is driven by what outsiders want. Its driven by people that want to twist it into something they can rail against. These people want to believe anyone who supports michael schiavo’s opinion, can only do so, because they want terri to die.
    They even go so far, as accusing those of us that want terri’s choices to prevail, that we are promoting a short track, to selective murder for reasons of genetic cleansing.
    All this emotional rhetoric, has absolutely nothing to do with what people that support michael schiavo’s views, believe, or want.
    1. the last wishes of a person, need to be protected, and honored, without interference by anyone, or any authority.
    (religion,government, etc.)
    2. religions role in society, is never to be forced, whether by government, or mob rule.

  25. 34

    Chee spews:

    The right to die has prevailed. Terri can pass away in a peacefull way, slipping away from the watchfull eyes of the media, courts, public and government with the dignity she would have wanted, so deserves and hasn’t had.

  26. 36

    jcricket spews:

    Unless Jeb decides to mount up a SWAT team and attempts to take Terri by force from the hospital on trumped up charges of abuse (which have already been considered, and remain as spurious and slanderous as ever).

  27. 37

    Chee spews:

    jcricket@36. Lest you forget George and Jeb listen to a higher power than the law. Their religion drives their fanaticism. They are acting like spoiled Bible Thumpers, wanting it their way. Zealously driven, they bypass their Bible even, going against their own faith, courts, doctors, judges and existing law. The Bible say, “Obey The Laws Of The Land.” Forget that, the brothers want to change the law to fit their religion convictions. Government should not be ran by rushing law and retroactive law. Shit for brains process. As a tree is bent, so shall it be. Bush brothers are bent, their intent is to overthrow the doctors, courts, any judges and law by franically introducing a making of new law that would salve their soul, support their religion.

  28. 38

    Chee spews:

    Diggindude@33.
    Rumors have been on topic. so time for another. I hear Mr. Cyncial has sent all the posts from Horseass to Jeb and George. Bedtime reading for the BONZOS. How sweet of him to consider they need public input instead of pro-acting on their behalf when acting in our behalf.

  29. 39

    Diggindude spews:

    Does gwdummy know “e-mail”?
    Someone’s going to have to read and explain it to him.
    A nice gesture though, they Do seem rather “”DIS-CONNECTED!!””
    LMFAO!!

  30. 42

    BF spews:

    I am just heart broken for the family. It would be the most difficult thing in the world, to watch your child die and not be able to do anything to help, not being able to give her any comfort, not being able to wet her mouth with water. This is torture for not only for Terri, but also for the family.

    This should not be political and I don’t believe that it is. Is it so difficult to believe that politicians are people too? Maybe I am naive, I guess I feel this pain, and assume that others who are in a position to help feel it too and just maybe they couldn’t live with themselves if they didn’t try and help a helpless vulnerable person.

  31. 43

    Chee spews:

    BF@42. The sting of death hits home with most people and emotions surface, facing death is never easy. What frosts my ass is where are those who feel sorry for her husband. He is a person too and has been through way too much bullshit due to outside interferance. Terri’s life ended 15 years ago when his pain began and nightmare that has followed is a travesty. It is political. There was a memo sent to our elected represenatives in The House, stating this is a good political issue. Jeb Bush started all this and brother George W jumped aboard. Yes, sad any way you look at it.

  32. 44

    Chuck spews:

    Chee@43
    you said “He is a person too and has been through way too much bullshit due to outside interferance.”>>>>

    Yes I agree you must mean his live in whore and the bastard kids he sired!

  33. 47

    chardonnay spews:

    HEARSAY
    HIS STATEMENT OF HEARSAY IS PRESUMED VALID
    YET FAMILY AND BEST FRIENDS IS INVALID.

    Coming this fall, made for TV movie

    HOW TO LEGALLY MURDER YOUR WIFE

    comment by chardonnay
    that came directly from the nurses affidavit. the very same affidavit that Judge Greer did not allow. The nurse reported to her administrator, that she found a needle and needle marks on Terri in 3 places, she was sweating, her blood sugar was low, after Michale had been in the room with Terri withthe door locked.
    She then called the police, they came to her home and took a report. The next day she was fired.

    the affidavit is available for the world to see at terrisfight.org
    http://www.blogsforterri.com

    I suggest you read codeblueblog.blogs.com

    everyone is lying except michael, right? 4 neuologists, 3 nurses, 2 speech pathologists, 2 internists, 1 neuro psychologist, all lying.

    Dr Cranford, 45 minutes with Terri, he is the star witness and totally believable, right?

    comment by chardonnay
    Theresa Marie has NEVER had a MRI, you can say EEG as many times as you want, it means nothing without more conclusive xrays, tests. all of which have been denied.
    yes, lets all just butt-out and let allow the kavorkians to kill people, legally. we shall just sit back and mind our own business. it is a private family matter. just like abortion. just like our property rights, just like how we discipline our children, just like how we should allow gay marriage.
    what is the governments business? who is the government? what are we, this population, a citizenry, we the people? A society, a whole body.

    A nation of laws not men. last time I checked, murder was still against the law, well at least for now. Once Terri dies we can add a constitutional amendment…the husbands property, he can beat his property into a coma, or shake his property senseless, then call Dr Cranford, George Felos and quickly transport “his” property to the “correct” hospice facility, where the Judge has ties. wink wink!!

    soon it will be the norm and the left will abolish the death penalty and pedophiles will become members of the teachers union. what a lovely world.

    butt-out? I shall not.
    comment by chardonnay

  34. 48

    bf spews:

    Chee –
    The supposed memo has already been shown to be invalid. Much like the memo Dan Rather used….

  35. 49

    Diggindude spews:

    This is an exact, full copy of the document obtained exclusively by ABC News and first reported Friday, March 18, 2005, by Linda Douglass on “World News Tonight with Peter Jennings.”

    Full Coverage: The Terri Schiavo Case

    Parties Put Aside Fights for Schiavo Law
    Gov. Bush Frustrated by Schiavo Roadblocks
    The Note: Lessons, Questions, and Choices

    S. 529, The Incapacitated Person’s Legal Protection Act

    Teri (sic) Schiavo is subject to an order that her feeding tubes will be disconnected on March 18, 2005 at 1p.m.

    The Senate needs to act this week, before the Budget Act is pending business, or Terri’s family will not have a remedy in federal court.

    This is an important moral issue and the pro-life base will be excited that the Senate is debating this important issue.

    This is a great political issue, because Senator Nelson of Florida has already refused to become a cosponsor and this is a tough issue for Democrats.

    The bill is very limited and defines custody as “those parties authorized or directed by a court order to withdraw or withhold food, fluids, or medical treatment.”

    There is an exemption for a proceeding “which no party disputes, and the court finds, that the incapacitated person while having capacity, had executed a written advance directive valid under applicably law that clearly authorized the withholding or or (sic) withdrawl (sic) of food and fluids or medical treatment in the applicable circumstances.”

    Incapacitated persons are defined as those “presently incapable of making relevant decisions concerning the provision, withholding or withdrawl (sic) of food fluids or medical treatment under applicable state law.”

    This legislation ensures that individuals like Terri Schiavo are guaranteed the same legal protections as convicted murderers like Ted Bundy.

  36. 53

    bf spews:

    Chee, did you happen to read the article contradicting diggindude’s “memo.” Hmmmm, I wonder who are those that are truly in denial? And who are those that don’t really want to read and understand more than one angle on any given subject out of their own simple arrogance?

  37. 54

    Chee spews:

    chardonny@51. Went to your link. Pretty girl. Past tense can never fix present tense which is now irrepairable. That is the issue presently at hand. To bank on the unseen to correct what is seen is folly. Carol will need to prove her allegations are facts. Terri’s case does not come under MEXICAN law where you are GUILTY till proven innocent. Might want to move to Mexico where your safe from harms way; found guilty before proven innocent. Your American theory of law in America sucks. Love it or leave it.

  38. 55

    Chee spews:

    BFBS@53. Got a frantic call from G.W. He was taking a poll, wanting to know how many in our household was on life support. About time Bush spreads the wealth. I think Bush will wire me money to fix false teeth. He talked about uppers and lowers, maybe he meant class. It is so hard to think with no teeth.

  39. 56

    bf spews:

    So, apparently you did not choose to read the article I noted.

    You appear to be a very angry and hateful person, is that really who you are, or are you just playing one on this blog.

    This is a serious matter, an important matter, none of us know all the answers. Just so you know, I would express the same uncertainty when people are put to death via the death penalty.

    Simply put, I would rather know I made a mistake when the person is still alive than realize I made a mistake after the person is dead. Is it so unreasonable? It’s purely emotional I admit it, it has nothing to do with G.W. or Tom Delay, it’s just how I feel.

  40. 58

    Chee spews:

    @56. BF, JUDGE, JURY AND GOD. You have not been appointed you to feel for me thank goodness. Your feeling what BF feels. Don’t stick YOUR ANGER HATEFULL FEELERS up my ass and everyone elses ass that does not see the world as you do. Your limited know-how, can not biologically feel for others or detect by your own radar another blogger’s feelings. Your a fool if you think you have reached the 7th Heaven stage. You only drawing your conclusion your own cup of feelings of hate and anger. Be it empathy or sympathy, hate or anger deal with it instead of projecting your feelings on others.

  41. 59

    bf spews:

    Wow, I am really sorry that you are not able to have a reasonable discussion. I was hoping that you might be willing to discuss this in an honest way. I am not even sure you read what I wrote.

    Were you saying that people should not feel? That we should all be robotic? That is a world, Sir or Madame, which I would not want to be a part of. I never once “felt” for you, I simply admitted honestly that I do have emotions regarding this matter.

    You are, or appear to be a truly angry and hateful person. And I am sorry because with this sort of hateful speech, we will never be able to work together, and I guess that is what I am most upset about. You know nothing about me, yet you appear to hate me.

    Oh well, I have plenty of people in my life that love me so I guess I won’t worry about your unfounded hatred for me.

    You know what, have a really great day. I hope something profoundly wonderful happens for you today.

  42. 61

    Chee spews:

    BF@59. WOW is right word. You never said I was “hatefull” and “angry” and just want to have a reasonable honest discussion. Your a F-ing liar. Go fly a kite.

  43. 62

    Chee spews:

    BF@60. Any maybe you should quit sticking your finger up my ass to do the smell test. Have a good one. When you pull your head out of your own ass may you brain cells you have fall out with it. That is sweet Irish lullaby.

  44. 64

    bf spews:

    Chee – Oh I am sorry you did not understand (or read) what I wrote. I wasn’t “feeling” you “angry and hateful”. I was noting that you appear to be hateful and angry. Let’s just say you have not done anything to change my opinion of you.

    I said
    “You appear to be a very angry and hateful person, is that really who you are, or are you just playing one on this blog. ”

    Then you said
    “You have not been appointed you to feel for me thank goodness.”

    Then I said
    “Were you saying that people should not feel? That we should all be robotic? That is a world, Sir or Madame, which I would not want to be a part of. I never once “felt” for you, I simply admitted honestly that I do have emotions regarding this matter.”

    And I said

    “You are, or appear to be a truly angry and hateful person. And I am sorry because with this sort of hateful speech, we will never be able to work together, and I guess that is what I am most upset about. You know nothing about me, yet you appear to hate me.”

    Two entirely different concepts; I first admitted that my beliefs on the Schiavo matter are emotional, and then I noted that you appear to be hateful and angry.

    But, don’t let the facts get in your way.

  45. 65

    Chee spews:

    BF.@ 54 AND 69. Your needle is stuck. CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? Your needle is stuck. CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?

  46. 67

    bf spews:

    Chee, In case you didn’t understand what I was attempting to do in 64, let me explain it to you. I will type slowly. (OK, maybe that comment was uncalled for….sorry)

    You said I said something I did not say, instead of asking you to read actual posts, I cut and pasted the conversation to illustrate that point to you.

    Anyways, it was fun talking with you today. I have got to run out to a PETA demonstration and then I have a Spotted Owl committee meeting.

    Who care’s about helpless vulnerable people when there are animals to save!

  47. 68

    Chee spews:

    BF@ 67. “Chee, In case you didn’t understand what I was attempting to do in 64, let me explain.” Your past your third strike, my momma didn’t raise any stupid chee-tahs and told us leopards don’t change their spots.

  48. 69

    bf spews:

    Hey, gotta give you credit you got the number right this time.

    Congrats – You’re the man! You still have not held together a cohesive thought or conversation, but you got the number right this time. You and your momma should be proud! Atta Boy!

  49. 71

    Chee spews:

    The santity of dying lays with government according to Pres. Bush, Congress and Gov. Bush who overstepped into a personal family matter, 3/4 of the American people have said they went too far. The situation of Terry is not unique, hundreds of cases per day but head-strong Jeb Bush even sent State Troopers to take custody of Terry the other day. What a miscarriage of power! People across the country are objecting to the bi-partisan body’s actions while the religious right beat goes on.

  50. 72

    Diggindude spews:

    Michael schiavo, should file lawsuits against bush, bush, and the members of congress, behind this travesty.

  51. 73

    bf spews:

    71 and 72

    Why? For asking the Federal Courts to review the case much like they would, and I assume you believe they should, in capital cases?

    By the way, should he also sue the democratic senators who agreed by unanimous consent or the 50 or so democratic congressmen and women who voted in favor of this legislation? Or just the evil Republicans who wanted to assure that Terri was accorded the same rights as a child rapist or murderer would be given? They asked for nothing more.

    In addition, I think that if you were to look at the way the questions were written you would understand why ¾ of Americans answered the way they did. I also, when asked – Do you think that Terri Schiavo should have the right to die, answered YES. However, the question is not that easy as there is no evidence, other than hearsay, that she would have indeed chosen to be starved and dehydrated to death.

    Why not just give her a lethal injection? If you are going to argue that she should be killed, why not put a bullet in her brain? What’s the difference? Now, if you were going to put a gun to someone’s head and pull the trigger, wouldn’t you want to know, without a shadow of a doubt that she would have chosen that?

    This would not even have been an issue if she had something in writing. In fact, probably 100% of Americans would agree that she should have the right to die. Nobody believes that she should not have the right to die, it’s just that there are too many questions unanswered, too much contradictory evidence to not error on the side of life. Especially, when there is a mother, a father, a brother and a sister who are all willing provide love and care for her.

  52. 74

    Diggindude spews:

    I said “congress” i was non partisan in that.
    There are NO unanswered questions, except the ones falsely thrown around by the extremists.
    If you support these questions, you are probably with that group.
    Killing her by execution, is a crime.
    Allowing her to die naturally, as she has been shown and proven in court, to have preferred, by taking her off life support, is honoring her wishes.
    Allowing her parents to keep her body alive, is dishonoring her wishes.
    They do not own her, and have come out publicly, to say they did not know what her final wishes were.
    There is more evidence to suspect the parents of foul play, than there is michael.

  53. 76

    bf spews:

    Diggindude –

    A feeding tube is not considered to be life support, I believe it is considered to be life sustaining. Several nurses have testified that she was able to swallow Jell-O and some other liquids. Granted this was 10 years ago, before Michael forbid them to help her in anyway or provide any therapy.

    I have read several of the court documents, the charges by DCF etc. etc. There are sworn affidavits by friends of Terri who talked about the abusive relationship that she was in. There are sworn affidavits from nurses expressing fear of Michael and his interactions with Terri. Why did Michael order the Hospice to stop brushing her teeth? Why did he hope that a bladder infection was going to kill her? O.K. so the above characterized sworn affidavits could all have been false. But so could Michael Schiavo remembering (after receiving $$$ from a malpractice suit) that Terri would have wanted to die.

    Are you 100% sure that dying by starvation was her wish?

    Well, maybe we should stop feeding all those on death row, after all, that way we wouldn’t be “executing” them, but allowing them to die naturally. I mean, they are not able to provide food and water for themselves as they are locked in prison cells. Wouldn’t feeding the child rapists and killers be considered “life sustaining activity”? Next, we could deal with the ever-growing pet population at the Humane Society by starving them. (After all they too are being provided with life sustaining nutrition.)

    So if a mother and father stopped giving their child food and water, would they be charged with a crime? Once again, the food and water provided to the child could also be considered “life sustaining.” I suppose their defense could be that their child wanted to die. I also guess we should disregard information from the neighbor who calls the DHSH because she hears the child crying out in hunger. That’s just hearsay.

    What an interesting world we would live in.

    I admit the above examples border on the ridiculous, but I am just trying to make a point.

  54. 77

    Diggindude spews:

    We do.
    5 people testified to what she said she wanted.
    Thats good enough.
    If there were any chance she could come back and “change her mind”, there could be a reason to wait.
    Whats the point of keeping her body alive like this?
    It would be a terrible injustice to her memory, to ignore her decision, for the selfish wishes of others.

  55. 78

    Diggindude spews:

    Those “accusations” have all been refuted by examining the facts.
    Do you think you’ve stumbled on to something 30 judges are somehow over looking?
    Feeding tube is considered life support, in cases where it is used to sustain life, without any reason to expect improvement.
    Let her go, she’s not a science experiment.

  56. 79

    bf spews:

    We are just not going to agree. And that’s OK.

    And no, as I understand it, the facts have not been refuted, the Judge denied hearing them. There are at least three different occations when DCF filed papers to try and take custody from Mr. Schiavo due to abuse and/or neglect. I don’t believe that the other judges can make decisions based on anything other than what is allowed in the initial trial.

    That is why congress constructed the legislation that they did, so that another court could look at all the information, including new information and affidavits. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your take, the courts opted not to look at the additional information.

    I certainly understand why the Supreme Court opted not to hear this case because it could have implications much like Roe Vs. Wade did.

    I often believe that these type things happen for a reason. There are an awful lot of people making sure that their wishes are in writing and that is a good thing, it takes horrific decisions like these out of the hands of loved ones.

    You’re right though, she’s not a science experiment, her parents and her nurses and several doctors see her as a person who is incredibly disabled. She is a living human being.

    Look, I intend nothing I say to change any minds and I know it won’t. It is just really nice to be able to have some civil discourse with other people and try and understand their point of view. Thank you for your opinions and understanding of the events as you interpret them, it’s very helpful in understanding alternative views when the conversation is not hostile.

    Thank You!

  57. 80

    Chee spews:

    bf@79. You must have got salvation recently or your memory fails you as Terri’s does. You are the same BF that threw out a SLAM-DUNK hostile remark. BF slyly uses “appears” to accuse a not angry or hatefull person of being “angry and hatefull.” All the while ignoring all Mr. Cynical’s posts. Maybe BF IS Mr Cynical; ect ect. Your adasity is showing A-hole. “It is just really nice to be able to have some civil discourse with some other people and try to understand their point of view.”–by BF. Yes, isn’t it.

  58. 81

    BF spews:

    Chee,

    I only called you angry and hateful because that is how your comments appeared. And yes, that’s why I enjoyed reading what diggindude wrote, because he actually expressed his reasoning in a reasonable manner, without swearing or asking for items to be placed in otherwise inappropriate places. (Which by the way my Husband found interesting) So yes I do appreciate the open dialogue.

    I am not sure what I did to you, but you really are absolutely hateful towards me. Whether you want to admit it or not.

    By the way, “Cynical” has never directed any hateful comments towards me like you have.