“The David Goldstein Show” tonight on 710-KIRO

Join me tonight on “The David Goldstein Show” from 7PM to 10PM on Newsradio 710-KIRO. I like to go with the flow, so things could change, but here’s what I have lined up for tonight’s show:

7PM: TBA

8PM: Will a rebuilt Viaduct sink the Marshall Islands? And should we care? The Marshall Islands stand an average 7-feet above sea level, and risk being submerged by global warming. King County Executive Ron Sims suggested this week that any replacement alternative for the Alaska Way Viaduct should consider the impact of carbon emissions. Can we afford to? Can we afford not to?

9PM: Is the initiative process perfect? You’d think so, hearing professional initiative sponsor Tim Eyman defend the current system as inviolate, but over thirty legislators have already signed on to a bill banning pay-per-signature signature gathering. Fellow blogger Andrew Villeneuve was at the hearing Friday morning and joins me in the studio for a first hand report. And TJ from Loaded Orygun will call in to tell us how a similar law is working down in Oregon.

Tune in tonight (or listen to the live stream) and give me a call: 1-877-710-KIRO (5476).

Comments

  1. 1

    RightEqualsStupid spews:

    Senator Biden said it best today. It’s Bush’s policy, NOT the upcoming Senate resolution against the war, that is emboldening the enemy. George (Baby) Bush has done more to embolden, support, and promote terror than Osama bin Laden.

  2. 2

    Mike spews:

    Hey Dave, cool to meet you at DL this week. As for why some people didn’t join the march, I’ll repeat what I told you the other night. Giant puppets never changed anyone’s mind, and “Free Mumia” t-shirts just make me want to punch people. Not good for a peace march, so I stay home.

  3. 4

    Kiroking spews:

    #1

    So you think the enemy is more “embolden” because of the extra troops that are going over. Not the senate pulling the money plug on the war,and bringing “their” enemies home.

    I don’t see the logic.

  4. 5

    skagit spews:

    Bush policy is making everybody in the middle east angry. Bush policy gives otherwise disparate people a common target. The US. That’s what that means.

  5. 6

    Richard Pope spews:

    “King County Executive Ron Sims suggested this week that any replacement alternative for the Alaska Way Viaduct should consider the impact of carbon emissions.”

    Does this mean that the replacement should be elevated, so that it won’t get flooded by rising ocean levels — something which a tunnel would be especially vulnerable to?

  6. 7

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Pay per signature invites fraud. Unlike photo ID, this is not an imaginary problem, it’s real. I don’t care if someone steals Michael Dunmire’s money, but I care about someone stealing my democracy.

  7. 8

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @6 I guess Sim’s theory is that cars don’t emit exhaust when they’re in a tunnel.

  8. 9

    Puddybud spews:

    Ms. Skagit: People in the middle east angry?

    Let’s see.

    Dictatorships, Totalitarian Regimes, Theocratic autocraticies, and one democratic society. Guess which one?

    These tin horn leaders will have to explain why their image of government fails when all they have is Israeli hatred. Since many of you here love to put Palestinians on a pedestal like Jimmy Carter in his book, what say you.

    Leaders forment hatred. Watch the new move Obsession at Cedar Park Church in Bothell 7:00 PM January 30th, and listen to the words when they talk to the west and when they talk to their people. Eye opening.

  9. 10

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @4 I think what emboldens the enemy is an incompetent politician who fires general who know what they’re talking about for telling him the truth about the stupidity of his military strategy and tactics.

  10. 12

    Puddybud spews:

    Richard: What does that mean, carbon emmisions impact? So you put large exhaust fans in the tunnel?

    Wat say you Goldy? You are his biggest fan? Pun intended!

  11. 13

    Puddybud spews:

    I misspelled Wat. Didn’t hit the second t key hard enough. it whould have been

    Watt say you Goldy?

  12. 15

    Kiroking spews:

    Rog @ 7

    Then when someone illegal casts a ballot or two, you don’t mind them stealing/negating your legitimate vote?

    Why would a lil ole intiative put your cottentail in a bind?

    Not following your logic there big bunny.

  13. 16

    Queen Chrissy spews:

    Roger Rabbit says:

    Pay per signature invites fraud. Unlike photo ID, this is not an imaginary problem, it’s real. I don’t care if someone steals Michael Dunmire’s money, but I care about someone stealing my democracy.

    01/28/2007 at 8:47 pm

    You tell em rabbit. There is a time and place to scrutinize everything, just don’t do it when one of our fellow donks are behind in a recount.

  14. 17

    Queen Chrissy spews:

    I thank my lucky stars that there was no voter ID when I got elected. I would have surely lost.

  15. 18

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    The only fraud proven to occur in the 2004 Gubernatorial election was fraud by Republicans. Proven in court, at the cost of a million dollars worth of bad legal advice paid for by the State of Washington Republican party.

  16. 19

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    I love it when the trolls bring up their collosal stupidity and their political blunders on the local level. When you couple that to the sterling job BushBinLyin’ has been doing to discredit the Republican party on a national level, it won’t be that long before we will have to have sheltered workshops to house the poor deluded minority that still identifies themselves as Republican.

  17. 20

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @15 There’s no such thing as a perfect election, kiroking. If we insisted on perfection, no one would ever be elected to anything, and our government would be perpetually leaderless.

    However, there is a big difference between inadvertent errors and planned, intentional, calculated fraud. You wingnuts have made an art form of trying to convince the public that evidence of the former is proof of the latter.

    Let’s take the 2004 governor’s election as an example. The judge concluded there were something like 1,500 votes cast by ex-felons who were ineligible to vote. The GOP tried to portray this as a premeditated effort by Democrats to steal the election with felon votes.

    The truth is, the Democrats had nothing to do with those felons voting; it was mainly a result of our state’s confusing laws. Even parole officers and election officials couldn’t accurately explain to the individuals they supervised whether they were eligible to vote.

    The truth is, no one knows who the 1,500 felons voted for; for all you know, 90% of those votes could have been for Rossi. The little anecdotal evidence we have is that most of the ineligible felon voters who were willing to talk to the press said they voted for Rossi.

    The truth is, Republicans controlled at least one house of the state legislature for a decade — and did absolutely nothing to clean up the voter lists. In January 2005, this state had a Democratic governor, a Democratic house, and a Democratic senate — and by the end of the 2005 legislative session, the legislature had passed and the governor had signed new laws to establish a statewide voter database and taken other steps to prevent this problem in future elections.

    You GOPers also made baseless allegations of King County elections officials suppressing military ballots. That was an outright lie. The military/overseas turnout in King County in 2004 was virtually identical to the general voter turnout — around 83%. King County processed over 15,000 military/overseas ballots, and all but about 250 were counted, which is well within the normal rejection rate for absentee ballots generally. Of these, only 16 were disqualified because they arrived after the deadline. It is possible none of these were military votes, as King County elections combines all overseas ballots (military and civilian). It is possible none of these votes were for Rossi. It is possible, in fact likely, they weren’t counted through fault of the voter, not the county or the mail systems. Another point: King County elections has no control over either the U.S. mail or military mail. Finally, any soldier who for any reason did not receive his absentee ballot could have obtained a Federal Write In Ballot from his unit’s Voting Assistance Officer. All soldiers receive training on this, and approximately 1,500 King County voters used FWIB’s in the 2004 election.

    You Republicans are lying through your teeth about what happens (and doesn’t happen) in our elections. Washington has clean elections compared to what happened in Florida and Ohio. In Ohio, a partisan Republican secretary of state locked voting machines in warehouses and made voters wait up to 10 hours in line, in a cold November rain, in Democratic precincts. In Ohio, dozens of soldiers deployed in Iraq were illegally challenged and prevented from voting by a GOP boiler room operation run by the RNC. Under these circumstances, any and all bitching from Republicans about our elections here in Washington rings hollow and falls on deaf ears.

    Go fuck yourself.

  18. 21

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    When you give some thought to the fact that an incumbent has a generally accepted advantage of five or more percentage points out of the box, and couple that to the fact the Republican election strategy will be run by that stupendous political intelllect, the recently unemployed Luke Esser. . .

  19. 22

    skagit spews:

    puddybutte: Dictatorships, Totalitarian Regimes, Theocratic autocraticies, and one democratic society. Guess which one?

    My point exactly. It took someone as inflammatory and ignorant as our Resident Idiot to bring them together against a common enemy: us.

  20. 23

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @16 Let’s be clear about one simple fact: You Republicans have been unable to produce a single case of a voter anywhere in the United States casting an illegal ballot by posing as someone else. Photo ID is a “solution” to a “problem” that doesn’t exist.

    And the GOP’s purpose in pushing photo ID is not to prevent voting fraud, it is to keep legitimate voters from voting — especially the poor and elderly. Fuck you assholes. You can take your photo ID, roll it up in a tight little tube, and shove it up your arses.

    Now go pet your armadillo.

  21. 24

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Let me also add that numerous courts have struck down photo ID laws as unconstitutional. They are of the same ilk as literacy tests and poll taxes: The qualifications for voting are stating in the federal and state constitutions, and legislative bodies may not add additional burdens, barriers, hurdles, or qualifications. It’s as simple as that.

  22. 27

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Liberals will continue to challenge photo ID wherever it is enacted, and we are confident that courts will continue to strike down these laws.

  23. 28

    janet s spews:

    Let me see if I have this right. If the US and Israel would just disappear, the Arabs could live in peace and harmony for eternity.

    What a crock.

    The Iraqis don’t like the troops in their country, but they like even less the thought of them leaving right now. Those who have openly supported democracy will be killed by the Iranian puppets who will be installed as we leave. If you want to see bloodshed, then follow the Dem plan for cutting and running.

  24. 29

    skagit spews:

    Janet S . . . cite one source that supports your thesis that the Iraqis want us to stay – link it please.

  25. 30

    Larry Alki Beach spews:

    re 28;janet s says:

    ‘Let me see if I have this right. If the US and Israel would just disappear, the Arabs could live in peace and harmony for eternity.’

    No, Janet. You do not have it right.

    Try again.

  26. 32

    Lawrence of Arabia Ballard spews:

    I use my real name , too. So does Puddybudd. His parents are specials needs. His sister’s name is Acidophalis Budd.

  27. 33

    janet s spews:

    Skagit – what is your theory of what will happen if the anti-war protesters have their way and we withdraw without defeating the insurgents?

    All of you seem to think that the unrest in the Middle East is all the fault of Bush. He won’t sit down and talk to the insane leader of Iran, so his only solution is to wreak havoc in Iraq. Good thing that the middle east was a haven of sweetness and light before that evil Bush was elected.

  28. 34

    janet s spews:

    The insurgents are looking for an exit strategy, and Mahdi’s army is going into hiding. Good thing that troop surge thing has emboldened the enemy.

    What is striking is that you have let your hatred for Bush overshadow your common sense. Dems who called for an increase in troops just a month or two ago are now up in arms that Bush has done so. Politics should stop at the water’s edge, but instead we have John Kerry telling the Iranians that they should have nuclear technology. Do you think that is a good idea, as well?

  29. 35

    RightEqualsStupid spews:

    Support our troops Janet S – take their place.

    Oh, I see, you don’t REALLY support them now do you?

    Politics didn’t stop at the water’s edge when the righties were attacking President Clinton over Bosnia. Double standards, cowards and hypocrites. That’s how you define today’s GOP.

  30. 36

    skagit spews:

    Iraq was under control and secular. No, it wasn’t a paradise. But, compared to the death and destruction that followed Bush’s folly, it might have been closer to paradise than now.

    I think the region will – probably Iran and others – will go in and clean out the insurgents, most of whom are Sunni Arabs. Al Queda is Sunni. Iran doesn’t want Al Queda around any more than we do. Just as Iran is helping rebuild infrastructure and health clinics in Afghanistan, I think Iran will help in Iraq. If you read Scott Ritter – and the rightwing mocks every Republican that thinks differently so he’s included – he understands the geopolitics of the region. He says Iran’s theology does not tolerate using nuclear capabilities for warlike purposes. Janet, you’ve got to believe somebody who has more expertise than opinion. We are forcing every country to want nuclear capabilities just because they are afraid of us!

    I think we have made a paper monster out of Iran. We’ve been responsible for an awful lot of what Iran has become. They had a democratically elected government in the 50s. We worked to overthrow it because Mossadegh de-privatized its oil. read about it

    A lot of Iraqis are scared because it is tribal. It may become tribal again and certain tribes will lose power and should be fearful. But, we will never solve it. We went about the whole thing in the wrong way and now they have to solve it. We should just let them get to it! All we will accomplish is sending soldier after soldier after soldier to their deaths. What is the point?

    You know, you just have to know some history to understand what is happening. Bush never did well in history . . . and he sneered at those who did know their history.

  31. 37

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    @34What total bilge. Muqtada Al-Sadr and his father have been involved in the power struggle in Iraq since way before we came on the scene.
    The Mahdi Army, estimated to exceed 100,000 strong was built up under the nose of Saddam Biding their time and cloaking their activities in an attempt to assist their ally the Prime Minister Al-Maiki while we follow this course of folly is nothing new. . .
    We were stupid enough to attempt to forcibly enter Sadr City and capture Al-Sadr once. It remains to be seen if we try again. In the meantime,Al-Sadr has couciled his militia to exercise patience. They can wait. They can wait six months.Or even the two years for the chimpster to leave office. They waited long enough for Saddam to fall. Al-Sadr and his father have been involved in the power struggle in Iraq since way before we came on the scene.
    The Mahdi Army, estimated to exceed 100,000 strong was built up under the nose of Saddam. Biding their time and cloaking their activities in an attempt to assist their ally the Prime Minister Al-Maiki while we follow this course of folly is nothing new. . .
    We were stupid enough to attempt to forcibly enter Sadr City and try to capture Al-Sadr once. It remains to be seen if we try again. In the meantime,Al-Sadr has coucilled his militia to exercise patience. They can wait. They can wait six months.Or even the two years for the chimpster to leave office. They waited long enough for Saddam to fall.

  32. 38

    spews:

    Janet S.

    Quite simply, Bush is a failure. He ruined his party, got bogged down in a winless war, created record debt……

    How can you defend him?

  33. 39

    skagit spews:

    Janet, you know very little history. It is hard to discuss with someone who only sees the that part of the iceberg that is above the water line . . .

  34. 40

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    Muqtada Al-Sadr preaches a particularly fervent brand of Apocalyptic Shiite Islam. Like some of our own whackjob religionists, they believe the end times are near and their actions through jihad can help to bring them about.

  35. 41

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    When you couple this kind of theology with a ragged militia of above 100,000 who can only imagine a better place if only they can die doing the right thing. . .performing jihad for example, you have a devil of an adversary.
    Then add the incendiary element of our clueless leadership, who have their own failings and deficits of knowledge and theology, then you begin to see the proportions of our disaster in Iraq.

  36. 42

    skagit spews:

    Well, we have our Tim McVeighs and Rapture-ites. Remember the cults – several of them though I can’t remember a single one – who believed and all died.

    I think most muslims don’t want to die. Ever hear or read Karen Armstrong who has written and spoken extensively on religion? We really have to keep this in perspective and she is one author that will help. Check her out.

    A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (Armstrong, Karen) by Karen Armstrong (Hardcover – Mar 2, 2004) (from amazon site)

  37. 43

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    I would commend to you the blog Informed Comment conducted by Juan Cole.
    As an aside, one of the things about Shiism that gives the willies to Sunnis is the emphasis placed on an apocalyptic vision. Sunnis also generally have a problem submitting totally to an ayatollah who would direct every aspect of their lives, much like a medieval priest. Islam can be made out to mean Submission. But according to most of the Sunni’s I have known, this means submission to the will of God (Allah) as revealed by scripture and conscience, not the direction of an ayatollah.
    Most Sunni’s would probably fit your category of not wanting to die. Shia’s are more like
    penetentes in their view of self-immolation and sacrifices.

  38. 44

    Richard Pope spews:

    Puddybud @ 12

    How about a carbon sequestration system, to keep automobile exhausts from the tunnel from entering the atmosphere? Keep the various carbon oxides trapped in the tunnel, so they can’t contribute to global warming. If enough carbon gasses are trapped in the tunnel, it will also result in a longer term reduction in traffic congestion in the Seattle area. Possible negative effects: (1) Washington becomes a “red state”, (2) vast increase in state government spending, especially for tort litigation liability, and (3) various government officials get sent to prison.

  39. 45

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @28 “The Iraqis don’t like the troops in their country, but they like even less the thought of them leaving right now.”

    You’re lying, Janet.

    A June 2004 Newsweek poll showed that “most [Iraqis] say they would feel safer if Coalition forces left immediately …. An overwhelming majority, about 80 percent, also say they have ‘no confidence’ in either the U.S. civilian authorities or Coalition forces.” http://tinyurl.com/4jelu

    An October 2005 Daily Telegraph poll showed that “65 per cent of Iraqi citizens support attacks [on British troops] and fewer than one per cent think Allied military involvement is helping to improve security in their country.” http://tinyurl.com/d86fn

    A December 2005 Time Magazine poll of Iraqis showed that “60% … said the U.S. and its allies have done a bad job carrying out their responsibilities in Iraq, while 65% said they oppose the troops’ presence in the country.” http://tinyurl.com/272lc4

    A September 2006 University of Maryland poll showed that “seventy-one percent … wanted all U.S. and coalition forces to leave Iraq within the next year” and “four in five … believed that the U.S. military in Iraq is ‘provoking more conflict than it is preventing,’ while nearly 61 percent said they approved of attacks on U.S.-led forces[.]” http://tinyurl.com/2fn4em

    A November 2006 poll conducted by an Iraqi institute found that “90 percent of Iraqis feel the situation in the country was better before the U.S.-led invasion” and “only five percent … said Iraq is better today than in 2003 … 89 percent … said the political situation had deteriorated, 79 percent saw a decline in the economic situation … 95 percent felt the security situation was worse than before.” http://tinyurl.com/tmyyf

    You’re full of shit, Janet, but thanks for playing.

  40. 46

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @33 “janet s says: Skagit – what is your theory of what will happen if the anti-war protesters have their way and we withdraw without defeating the insurgents?”

    You’re asking the wrong question, Janet. The relevant question is, “What makes you think we can defeat the insurgents by staying?”

    For crying out loud, Bush has had 4 years to win this war. he just fired his top generals because they told him a troop surge wouldn’t work. In six months he’ll fire their replacements, too, when they tell him it isn’t working. Oh, and let’s not forget he fired the grand architect of this whole fiasco, Donald Rumsfeld. Wonder how long this Gates guy will last? Bush is behaving exactly like Hitler did as the Third Reich collapsed around his ears — der Fuehrer surrounded himself with sycophants and “yes” men, banished anyone who tried to clue him in to reality, and pushed imaginary divisions around on his paper maps.

    You can’t win a war by wishing for victory, dumbass! You’d think the POTUS would learn something from our experience in Vietnam and Russia’s defeat in Afghanistan but nooooo … a whole new generation of American soldiers has to pay with their lives for one man’s stubborn stupidity.

  41. 47

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @34 “The insurgents are looking for an exit strategy”

    Yeah, they call it “kill Americans until they leave,” and they can do that forever.

  42. 48

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @35 The rightys go ape shit anytime someone mentions Bosnia. They just can’t get over the fact Clinton saved a Muslim country from genocide. The wingnut blogs I’ve read all imply the Serb killers were the good guys.

  43. 49

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    While I’m talking about rightwingers’ affection for killers, I may as well mention that the Bush administration is harboring Luis Posada Carriles, a terrorist who blew up a Cuban airliner full of children, blew up a Venezuelan hotel full of tourists, and was implicated in the New York City assassination of a leading Chilean politician.

    After the 1976 airliner bombing, Posada was jailed in Venezuela for several years, until a Cuban-American group with close ties to the Reagan administration planned and financed his escape. In very short order, he was “at work” in El Salvador with the Contras — on Oliver North’s payroll. During this period, the FBI linked Posada to 41 bombings in Honduras.

    In 1997, Posada was involved in a series of bombings of Cuban hotels intended to discourage tourists from visiting Cuba, killing an Italian and wounding 11 other foreigners.

    In 2000, Posada was arrested in Panama while in possession of 200 lbs. of explosives, which he planned to use to kill Fidel Castro during a state visit. He was convicted and jailed, but in 2004 was pardoned and released by the Panamanian president, who had close ties to the George H. W. Bush administration. Shortly thereafter, he illegally snuck into the U.S. across the Mexican border.

    On May 3, 2006, Venezuela asked the U.S. to extradite Posado. That same day, George W. Bush’s Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs, Roger Noriega, told the press that Posada might not be in the United States and characterized the criminal charges against Posada as “a completely manufactured issue.” Exactly two weeks later, the Miami Herald interviewed Posada in Florida. The Department of Homeland Security arrested him that day — amid anti-Posada protests attended by hundreds of thousands of people — and he has been in what amounts to U.S. protective custody ever since.

    Both Cuba and Venezuela want to extradite Posada. The U.S. has refused.

    You see, Republicans aren’t against terrorists or terrorism per se. They actually like terrorists, as long as they’re working for the CIA or somebody the U.S. likes, such as Cuban exiles who want to kill Castro. It doesn’t matter a whit to them that this man has killed innocent children and tourists — they’re mere “collateral damage.”

  44. 50

    Reckless spews:

    Roger_Rabbit@48:

    I remember you quoting last fall against some people on the right “as long as they’re our criminals (John Murtha, Alan Mollohan, William Jefferson) in congress we don’t care”.

    Now you revert to self-righteousness over this Posada? Roger Rabbit loses another argument. Do you think we’re going to do anything to support Cesar Chavez? Do you think we’re going to do anything to support Fidel Castro? Did you know last year Cesar Chavez invited Iranians into his country “to help with oil”? Lets see. Yesterday I learned YLB is for open borders. So these Iranians make it through Mexico and arrive in the US. This is YLB abd Roger Rabbit’s perfect storm scenario. A terrorist attack happens on our soil. People die in the US so Roger and YLB can point fingers at the Bush Administration and how it failed America. I remember someone asking you on the left why you all hate America. Posts like 48 show your thinking.

    Either you are against all forms of evil or not? Which is it Roger Rabbit? You call people NAZIs when you know non-liberals are for Israel. Which is it Roger Rabbit? You call people fascists when you know Moussolini was against the Jews. Which is it Roger Rabbit?

  45. 51

    Reckless spews:

    Richard@44. I like it. Since Moonbat!s inhabit King County, PERFECT!

    Again I ask why won’t King County Moonbat!s demonstrate your support for Ron Sims, sell your cars, give to the poor, and ride those bicycles to work? No need for a tunnel as you all self-policed the pollution. You’ll be like many Europeans who use their bikes!

  46. 52

    Reckless spews:

    Roger as you noticed I took the gloves off above. I was nice. Just because I disagree with you, I am neither a Nazi or a fascist. I am using the KLake line Moonbats. I think he was the first to say you drop sh^t everywhere and bark at the moon! Since I am a Nazi and a Fascist you are a Moonbat. I never liked donk.

    Anyway Moonbats, here’s the deal. We leave Iraq. The country splits into civil war. Someone asked for the link:

    http://mickarran.com/2007/01/1.....e-our-oil/

    Saudis to US: “Stay in Iraq or Lose Our Oil”

    He’s one of yours Roger! I don’t accept his premise, but I noticed oil prices dropping. $2.37 now! So he claims we went in for oil. Now he tweaks it and says we stay for Saudi oil. I disagree.

  47. 53

    skagit spews:

    TFF @ 43: I have Cole’s site bookmarked so am very aware of him. I first heard him on Franken. People may not like Franken, but he’s got the best guest list on radio.

  48. 54

    skagit spews:

    @51: you don’t know why oil prices are dropping – you’re clueless. Could be a matter of changes is SOR policy (strategic oil reserve). It is all manipulated.

    And, if we left Iraq, I do think Shiites with Irans help would take over . . . don’t you? But, 9-11 was Al Queda, a Sunni machine.

    Whatcha gonna do?

  49. 55

    RightEqualsStupid spews:

    News flash to the inbred right. Iraq is ALREADY in the middle of a civil war – it started hundreds of years ago! Jeesh, see what happens when you let a bunch of angry middle – aged white guys listen to Limpdick Limbaugh? They start quoting talking points that have zero relationship to reality!

  50. 56

    janet s spews:

    I’m trying to figure out why we want to hand over Iraq to the Iranians. Recent captured intelligence shows that IRan is playing both sides of the game. They are sending in their own and also funding the nutcases on both sides. Without their interference, it is likely that the insurgency would have died out. The Iraqis have more potential than most of the other middle east countries to create a democratic state. We just need to give them the breathing room to do so.

    I’m sorry that so many of you think so little of the Iraqis. When 70-80% of a country risks an election or two, how is that a civil war? Suicide bombers do not make an organized militia.

    The Iranians have some serious problems in their own country. Their oil revenues are decreasing, prices are going up, jobs are disappearing. The foray into Iraq is a means to lay blame elsewhere and rally the country around nationalism, rather than free the citizens and fix the country.

  51. 57

    David spews:

    “The Iranians have some serious problems in their own country. Their oil revenues are decreasing, prices are going up, jobs are disappearing. The foray into Iraq is a means to lay blame elsewhere and rally the country around nationalism, rather than free the citizens and fix the country.”

    sounds familiar

  52. 58

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    Janet@55 I’m afraid all of those questions need to be directed to Messrs. Cheney and Bush, the ones whose incredibly blundering strategies in Iraq have brought us to this pretty pass.

  53. 59

    skagit spews:

    So, Janet, we deserve Iraq more than Iran? At least Iran is shiite which includes many Iraqis. I don’t get you. It seems like you don’t get the people part of it. You objectify them and you seem to think they can’t decide for themselves. That you know better what’s good for them.

    Get out and let them decide. If they have to decide by war, so be it. That’s how we did it. And it worked for us.

    I really don’t understand your points at all.

    Of course, Iran is working in Iraq. They are a regional interested party for sure. And they aren’t several thousand miles away . . . Is our interest – oil – really better than theirs?

    Yes, I’m sure it is to you.

  54. 60

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    Skagit@58 To continue your remarks. . .the Iranians are Farsi. . .and somewhat cosmopolitan and homogeneous in make up. The tribal structure in the north is more pronounced, but nothing like the clan and tribal structure of the Arabs in Iraq. Many members of the Shia hierarchy are trained in Iran. . .Q’om generally, but there are many tensions in the Shia Community between native Arabs and ayatollahs of non-Arabic extraction. . .
    It would be difficult for me to imagine the success of someone like Muqtada Al-Sadr if he were too closely aligned with the Iranians.
    Iraq has a long and storied Shia history of its own. . . . .