The Cowardly Lyin’

After our last joint appearance on the John Carlson Show, our good friend Stefan graciously visited HA and contributed the following comment:

Please do put up the complete clip, David. [assuming you don’t edit out my actual words, as you did in your post]. My disappointment with having you speak on behalf of King County Elections is that you’re not an expert on their procedures and you’re not accountable for simply making stuff up, which you were doing today. I specifically told John that I’d prefer to confront an actual elections official. I only want to pick on someone who’s bigger than I am, not just some insignificant fool who doesn’t know what they’re talking about and just makes stuff up.

Well, I’m always happy to oblige such a polite request, and thanks to Andrew at Northwest Progressive Institute, you can listen to the entire audio clip here. Hmm. Listening to the interview, I’m beginning to think Stefan doesn’t respect me.

“This is frankly one of the problems with having David Goldstein on, because he can say, he can make up all kinds of stuff and is not accountable.”

(I think he may have been attempting to make another one of his puns on my last name, but I can’t really tell from the clip.)

As Stefan helpfully points out, I am not an expert on election procedures or the law. And you know what? Neither is he.

What Stefan really objects to is having an opponent who is actually willing and able to fight back. He’d rather talk to election officials, fearful for their jobs, barred from taking partisan positions, and unschooled in the art of rhetoric, because his arguments simply don’t hold up to vigorous debate.

And quite frankly, I find his protestations rather cowardly. But listen to the clip and decide for yourself.

Comments

  1. 1

    Goldy wishes he was Sound Politics instead of this little toy blog. spews:

    I’d say you are the coward. You constantly hide behind your potty mouth and your claim “that this is your blog, so you can say whatever you want.”

    True, it’s a free country, and you can swear and blabber on, but that does not count for honest debate, and that’s why compared to Sound Politics, this is small time blog, that will have run its course the day the election contest is over.

    It’s amazing that you still believe that certification was the end of this election and that all of the gross incompetence and deliberate withholding of information uncovered since amounts to nothing.

    Do you really believe that resonates with the average WA voter? You probably do, and that’s why you are a Democrat. Reality is optional to you.

  2. 2

    spews:

    David, thanks for posting that. I encourage your readers to go look at WAC 434-262-204, which requires that Reconciliation of all precincts shall be completed and presented to the county canvassing board before the election may be certified. and then listen to the radio clip. It only proves my point that you don’t know what you’re talking about and that you just make stuff up.

    It’s also kind weird that in order to change the subject from King County’s illegal certification of the election, you somehow attack me for correctly pointing out the fact that you just make stuff up.

    I do think that KVI listeners would rather hear an election official explain why they certified the election illegally instead of listening to some insignificant fool just make stuff up. Or maybe not. I’ll leave that call to KVI and will be happy to debate whomever they invite me to debate.

  3. 3

    Erik spews:

    i>And quite frankly, I find his protestations rather cowardly. But listen to the clip and decide for yourself.

    His “protestations” are only an attempt to eliminate your air time on KVI as a direct competitor to him. I am sure you would rather debate Vance rather than a right winger blogger.

    However, KVI, despite its normally one sided approach believed your presence increased the number of listeners. You got to love the free market sometimes.

  4. 4

    Erik spews:

    Reconciliation of all precincts shall be completed and presented to the county canvassing board before the election may be certified

    After having the judge dismiss his “voter crediting” spreadsheets long ago, he is still trying to breath life into them.

    At least he’s honest in this respect: he hates you because you long ago established that the “voter crediting” arguments had no bearing on the election.

  5. 5

    headless lucy spews:

    Stefan is one of those unusual people whose vocabulary outstrips his ability to reason, giving his rantings a patina of the Platonic ideal of the, “Everyman Smartypants.” The usual angry but distinctly word-challenged ordinary Republican bigot can only look in admiration at Stefan and his wordy rants and say: “What he said!”

  6. 6

    Chuck spews:

    Erik@3
    Appearantly you arent a KVI regular or you would know that the hosts go out of their way to present opposing views, such as Schram, Ron Simms always has an open chair there, even your governor has been offered an open mike on several occasions. Your statement is moot and makes you look like you dont know what you are talking about.

  7. 7

    headless lucy spews:

    @1: We’re back to square one with you dumb fucks. Goldy should ban you Rep stringwarts from this blog.

  8. 8

    Erik spews:

    However, KVI, despite its normally one sided approach believed your presence increased the number of listeners. You got to love the free market sometimes.

    I stand by the statement. Take your stop watch out on Monday and time the right and left wing commentators and report back. The fact that a few liberals show up as guests doesn’t change it.

  9. 9

    peterclute.com spews:

    HA!
    “Northwest Progressive Institute”…sounds like a bunch of garofalo look-alikes (black horn rimmed glasss and greasy hair) sitting around a freemont apartment coffee table (previously used for “Dungeons and Dragons institute” meetings).

    YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME OVER HERE…are you being sincere? Is this Blog for real or is it a parody?

  10. 10

    Jeff B. spews:

    Count me as one KVI listener that would prefer a better debating partner for Stefan.

    It’s not so much that I mind Goldy. He’s a reasonably good debater. But I find it far beyond palpable or credible that Goldy absolutely refuses to acknowledge a large number of errors, far more than in any other county. And refuses to acknowledge negligence and the behavior of key KCE officials as significant.

    There’s a heck of a lot of WA voters that are more annoyed at such blatant attempts to whitewash than anything else.

  11. 11

    Erik spews:

    Count me as one KVI listener that would prefer a better debating partner for Stefan.

    Jeff,

    KVI doesn’t invite Stefan or Goldy’s to be on because they are skilled debators. They are invited on air because they run popular opposing blogs. Consider it “KVI Blog Hour.”

    It pretty much equals out. Goldy has more comments but Stefan probably has more traffic. If Stefan or Goldy were trumped by another blog that was more popular, they would be at risk of being replaced.

  12. 12

    M spews:

    You’re right. Stefan doesn’t respect you, I’m afraid. But there seems to be reason for that. After hearing your attempts on KVI to explain why the election workers would try so hard to figure out before certification why nothing was adding up, you said it was so they could ‘do better next time’. Uh, NO. That’s not it. It’s because they’re required to come reconcile and come up with explanations for all that stuff. You really sounded silly, I hate to say it.

  13. 14

    Wingers @ it again spews:

    peterclute @ 9

    And you? A guy in a white hood in a one room shack in Moses Lake stacked with rifles?

    Noone should go there – they most definitely WILL BE KILLED!

  14. 15

    M spews:

    And it’s my impression that, while we all know who you and Stefan each favor for governor and expect ‘partisan’ responses, David you are SO in the tank for Gregoire that you lose a lot of credibility. You go FAR beyond what a typical ‘reasonable’ partisan would sound like, and once I figured that out (e.g., your comment described in my previous post), I stopped wanting to listen to you. Not because you’re a leftwinger, but because you’re SO partisan that you forget reason.

    I enjoyed hearing Sandeep Kaushik (sp?) on Kirby’s show. He’s obviously waaaay to the left, but he was reasonable-sounding. You need to get to the point where you can at least remember that intelligent people are listening with critical ears to both speakers and noticing when partisan comments get SOO partisan that no one can believe them. Just a little constructive criticism to go along with my advice to lose the F-bombs. Look, I’m trying to help you here. But you aren’t seeing some of the finer points of what will move you ahead in all this.

  15. 16

    Polite Request spews:

    After listening to the clip…..the only thing you got right is “The judge has aready made up his mind”.

    Stephan does his homework and it shows. Your doing a good job of working your way around the truth and it shows.

    Look up the LAW posted on his blog and there might be some light at the end of the tunnel for you.

  16. 17

    dj spews:

    Jeff B @ 10

    “But I find it far beyond palpable or credible that Goldy absolutely refuses to acknowledge a large number of errors, far more than in any other county.”

    Listen, dipshit, you really need to learn how to do such comparisons. The absolute number of errors is meaningless. You must look at the rate of errors (i.e. the errors per ballot). There are other counties that have higher error rates than KC for most (and perhaps all) categories of errors. Additionally, all counties in Washington had a relatively low rate of errors.

    “And refuses to acknowledge negligence and the behavior of key KCE officials as significant.”

    Look, if you don’t even know how to properly quantify errors, you are in no position to discuss negligence and bad behavior.

    Without question, KC made mistakes (although not that many by the standards of other elections and other counties in this election). But, negligence and bad behavior has not been demonstrated. The worse “negligence” is a report by Ms. Way. Whether that is “negligence” is questionable, as she testified (on direct questioning by Bridges) that she thought the number was accurate at the time.

    “There’s a heck of a lot of WA voters that are more annoyed at such blatant attempts to whitewash than anything else. “

    What they ought to be outraged at is fraud on the part of the GOP in claiming “fraud,” “malfeasance,” “sinister behavior,” and of promoting a “culture of errors” on the part of the counties. These GOP assholes have abused the courts as a tool for delivering a blatantly false message to the public. And, you, Jeff B are swallowing it, hook line and sinker. Wake up and start thinking for yourself!

  17. 18

    James King spews:

    “You need to get to the point where you can at least remember that intelligent people are listening with critical ears to both speakers and noticing when partisan comments get SOO partisan that no one can believe them.”

    No intelligent people listen to KKKVI

  18. 19

    spews:

    polite @ 16
    If Stefan did his homework, he wouldn’t have claimed voter crediting was equal to counting. He wouldn’t have argued that military ballots went out late. He wouldn’t have sued the Secretary of State to get birthdates for his voter file. He wouldn’t have challenged Daniel Sosin for being an illegal voter, when it took me about 30 seconds on Google to find the law that exempted him. And on, and on, and on. Stefan is the near epitomy of the concept that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

    If you want a right wing commentator on the trial who DOES do his homework, try Micajah at Croker Sack. He’s very conversant with state law, and last I read he thinks Rossi is fucked.

  19. 20

    dj spews:

    Idiot @ 1

    ‘I’d say you are the coward. You constantly hide behind your potty mouth and your claim “that this is your blog, so you can say whatever you want.”’

    Grow up, ProudAss—what is this, fucking Kindergarten using words like “Potty mouth”? Perhaps you buy into high school bullshit lines about swearing. In fact, “cursing” is simply using words, and “curse” words can sometimes be effective tools in discourse and debate. In particular, they can be used to provoke anger or laughter, which are both useful ways of manipulating your audience, or getting across a message.

    Some rightists like you are apparently afraid of some words, and get angry when people break their taboo. What is interesting and fun is that us leftists have found that these folks just plain get stoopid when they get angry. Needless to say, stupidity doesn’t help them make their point.

    “True, it’s a free country, and you can swear and blabber on, but that does not count for honest debate, and that’s why compared to Sound Politics, this is small time blog, that will have run its course the day the election contest is over.”

    I don’t post on uSP because Sharkansky is a prick who outs people by their IP address. But, I occasionally read uSP. I find very little genuine debate going on there. The level of debate is much higher here, in part because Goldy allows all to post (and to say whatever they want).

    In any case, given that you rarely have any intelligent opinions of your own, I don’t think you will be at all missed at all when you disappear following the contest.

  20. 21

    Priscilla spews:

    Hey Goldy, I recognized your and John’s voices on the audio clip, but who was the guest making all the clucking noise? Does John keep a pet chicken in the studio?

  21. 22

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    If you want a right wing commentator on the trial who DOES do his homework, try Micajah at Croker Sack. He’s very conversant with state law, and last I read he thinks Rossi is fucked. -Comment by torridjoe— 6/4/05 @ 11:19 pm

    And you read that where exactly? Because I sure don’t see it on his blog anywhere… especially since he hasn’t updated since the 2nd.

  22. 23

    Priscilla spews:

    @9

    “(black horn rimmed glasss and greasy hair)”

    I saw that guy! Lemme see … wherrrre did I see him … he licked his comb in his mouth … oh yeah now I remember … Paul Wolfowitz in “Fahrenheit 911″ … funniest goddam movie I’ve ever seen but that Paul guy isn’t much of an actor.

  23. 24

    Priscilla spews:

    Hey everybody I went and checked out Peterclute.com’s web site! That’s TWO views he’s got today — I DOUBLED his traffic!! Good job, peterklutz, now you can tell your advertisers that your traffic has increased 100% in the last 24 hours! (I assume you were the other person who looked at your web site today)

  24. 25

    DamnageD spews:

    So sharky some election pro now? Odd, I don’t recall seeing him or hearing his name called during the trial?

    Sharky, your just another blog host, deflate your head. Atleast Goldy doesn’t censor!

  25. 26

    Donnageddon spews:

    This is hilarious! Sharky-the-minnow is so dead.

    Monday, Monday, how Sharky dreads that day.

    And now as the hour of reckoning comes to pass, more TROLLs appear.

    I am doing the Snoopy Dance!

    what a bunch of blind freaks!

  26. 29

    dj spews:

    Mr. Sharkansky @ 2

    ”I encourage your readers to go look at WAC 434-262-204, which requires that Reconciliation of all precincts shall be completed and presented to the county canvassing board before the election may be certified.”

    Like you, I am not a lawyer, but what the fuck does WAC 434-262-204 have to do with the 2004 general election? This WAC is effective on 28 March 2005. Here is the Washington State Register record documenting this as a new section: WSR 05-06-035 at http://www1.leg.wa.gov/documen.....06-035.htm

    Holy shit, Sharkansky, you are more of a hack than I ever imagined!

  27. 30

    Erik spews:

    Holy shit, Sharkansky, you are more of a hack than I ever imagined!

    That may be a little harsh. However, it now looks as if Stefan’s experts are even throwing in the towel, or at least covering themselves with it:

    On the other hand, Bridges could simply confirm the obvious (i.e. that, indeed, the election was a mess) but conclude that Rossi’s team failed to prove by fraud or otherwise (e.g. proportional analysis) that he would have won by clear, cogent and convincing evidence.

    Oh well. Rossi can always run again in 2008.

  28. 31

    spews:

    DJ. Thanks for picking up on that. WAC 434-262-204 is an update to 434-253-203/204 which was issued in August 2004. The regulation did exist for the November 2004 election albeit under a different WAC number.

  29. 33

    spews:

    stefan’s right there; the orignal ones expired but were subsequently made permanent.

    On the other hand, there’s nothing that indicates the law was broken, in that WAC. Reconciliation is not achieving a zero balance. It is a process, not a result. It can certainly be argued that the process was not well followed, but that’s not particularly meaningful to an election contest.

    Re @ 21
    He says quite clearly that the GOP lawyers are tanking the case, in multiple places. Look at the long one regarding Hill v Howell.
    And there’s no way his opinion of them improved after Friday, with Korrell’s whining about all the laws against them.

  30. 34

    Dave spews:

    Rossi can always run again in 2008

    And lose by an even greater margin thanks to the election reforms that his party is demanding.

  31. 35

    spews:

    Mark — the violation here is that NO reconciliation of poll-site ballots was presented to the canvassing board. (and similarly, that the reconciliation reports on absentees and provisionals were bogus). Had the canvassing board been given accurate information about the magnitude of the reconciliation discrepancies, they could have postponed certification pending an investigation and correction of the problems.

    Unfortunately, the law doesn’t seem to guide a canvassing board on what to do in case of irrconcilable discrepancies. But at least the canvassing board documents are open to the public.

    I suppose the best they could do in the worst case when they the reconciliation discrepancy is greater than the “margin of victory” would be to be honest with the public about the magnitude of the irrconcilable discrepancy, be held accountable to voters for running a crappy election and let a fully informed legislature decide whether to inaugurate a governor who was elected by a whole mess of illegal votes. I suspect the latter would have been a harder roll call vote to defend than it was back in January when the true magnitude of the ballot discrepancies were only known to county election workers.

    Had all that been done 7 months ago, there could have been a political solution to the mess we’re in, instead of a judicial solution.

  32. 36

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Goldy–
    Remember way back when–
    You were the dork that claimed the BIG BINDER would explain everything from voterless votes to your gawdawful screeching voice. Goldy’s BIG BINDER….precindt reconciliation attempts all 3-hole punched together…2616 precindts…..KingCo’s saving grace.

    What about your BIG BINDER now Goldy???????? Was the Canvassing Board made aware of all the unexplained discrepancies Goldy??
    Did Sanchez investigate every discrepancy Goldy???

    Your comment that KingCo looked at these reconciliations so “they can do better next time” ranks at the top of the top 10 stupid things you’ve said the past 6 months.

    Bend over Goldy…you are about to feel the ripping of tissue as those 2616 pages of unreconciled baloney covered by hard black vinyl are rammed up your rectum at high velocity with no lubricant. And we all think your hideous Pee Wee Herman/Gilbert Gottfried/3 Chipmunks voice is screechy and offensive now????

  33. 37

    zapporo spews:

    hmmm…
    Stefan does have credibility. (Suprised?)
    Over 170 ballots still not counted. (Which county do you suppose most of those are from???)
    Oh look, absentee ballot reconcilliation does matter dj.
    And as of last election, felon votes were illegal.
    Throwing provisional votes directly into the Accuvote is also unlawful.
    I have to stop there. I’m laughing too hard.
    Monday is certainly going to be interesting.

  34. 38

    wes in wa spews:

    Dave @ 33
    Rossi can always run again in 2008

    And lose by an even greater margin thanks to the election reforms that his party is demanding.

    The margin would be determined by the fallout from the presidential election, as it was this time. ’04 had record turnout, on both sides, and it wasn’t the gubernatorial election that brought that about. Will the ’08 election bring out the massive turnout that Bush and Anybody But Bush did?

    There were a heckofa lot of folks voting, who’d vote for anybody at all, as long as they had an “R” by their name. The proof is in the 32% of WA voters who voted for their bizarre State Auditor candidate, Will Baker.

    It was Bush, not Baker, who turned out the bizarro vote, and a lot of folks who voted for him can be excused as ignorant or straight-ticket voters, who simply didn’t read his paranoid ramblings in their voter’s pamphlets or the news of Republican disavowal of his candidacy when the party realized they’d nominated a recognized wingnut.

    Still, Baker’s 32% result (that’s 62% of the number of those who voted republican for governor, 65% of the number of those who voted for Bush for president) are an indicator that turnout’s more of a key than the particulars of the candidate, and that tinfoil-hat wingnuts and the willfully ignorant are a demographic that the Democrats may need to court as effectively as the Republicans have done.

  35. 39

    righton spews:

    wes baby,

    your from the party we got the phrase “yellow dog democrat” from. Imagine avg dem on cap hill or queen anne would vote for a yellow dog if it was a dem.

  36. 40

    Scott spews:

    Steffy went to the right wing institute of debate. When you represent the looooosing side, attack the opponent because of the way he wears his hair, the way his name sounds, the way his wife looks, do ANYTHING other than focus on the facts.

    Steffy is a punk who would NEVER in his life dare to raise his voice to a left winger who was toe-to-toe with him.

    This punk Steffy is like all the other right wing hateriots. He can’t get a real job so he jumps on the hateriot band wagon. You can bet he’s in it for the money. Steffy probably doesn’t even really believe that Dino (I don’t know the difference between a real estate agent and a real estate broker) won.

    What are you going to do Steffy when your boy gets re-defeated in this case? What villian will you rant about then? What will you do with your miserable life when it becomes clear that Chris keeps the mansion and your boy gets what you and he deserve, the shaft?

    Oh yeah, eat shit and die.

  37. 41

    marks spews:

    wes in wa @37 –

    brings up an important point:

    Straight ticket voting is moronic (at best).

    If you are voting for an individual due to the letter after her/his name, with no information on what their stand is on issues, you just failed the democracy test. Better to just leave that office blank on the ballot (and be sure not to make any accidental random stray indentation that the highly trained election officials may misconstrue as a vote for somebody).

  38. 43

    Goldy spews:

    Wow. Sorry to miss so much of this thread. I posted late at night East Coast time (I’m in Philly), and was surprised to see so many comments when I checked back this morning.

    Stefan… John puts us on the air together because it’s good radio, period. Same reason Kirby puts me on the air solo. I light up the lines, and that’s good for business. I’ve been doing radio, with and without you or Eyman, since January of 2003, and if I sucked as much as you obviously believe I do, they wouldn’t keep inviting me back. So you can ridicule me all you want, on or off the air, and it will have absolutely zero traction with John or Kirby or the MSM, because I established my credibility with them long before you ever clawed your way onto the scene.

    Furthermore, your assertion that somehow having you and John tee off against a KC Elections official would be fair or informative, is… well… simply laughable. Interviewing government workers is certainly fair game in your role as amateur journalist, but your appearances on KVI have nothing to do with being fair or balanced, and a KC Elections official would have to be fucking nuts to fall into that trap. At least John is upfront with his bias and agenda… you are not. You are the most widely read right-wing blogger in WA. I am the most widely read liberal blogger in WA. Like or not (and personally, I don’t particularly like it either) that makes us the ying and yang of this debate. Deal with it.

    Unfortunately, the law doesn�t seem to guide a canvassing board on what to do in case of irrconcilable discrepancies.

    Neither does the WAC specify how the reconciliation is reported to the canvassing board. The reconciliation was obviously used as the basis for the report, whether the actual contents of the big binder were directly presented or not. KC Elections did not violate RCW or WAC. That’s not just my opinion… that is the opinion of the Sec. of State. And apparently, that is the opinion of Norm Maleng, since his office has not found anything worth prosecuting.

    I have never denied the real errors that occurred in this election, in King County and throughout the state (though most were post-election voter crediting errors that had no impact on the count itself,) and I freely admit that I am occasionally forced into the position of being an apologist for policies and performance that I would not have sanctioned myself. BUT…. you have absolutely no evidence that any of these irregularities favored Gregoire over Rossi. None. Zilch. Zip. Nada. And that is what this trial is allegedly about. If Rossi had been certified by 42 votes, I’m guessing that you would be at least as offended if the Democrats tried to set aside the election based on the evidence Rossi has presented.

    So I stand by what I said on the air… you are attempting to use the contest statute for partisan political gain. Quoting the WAC does not make you any better informed, or any more honest. Tomorrow morning, a Republican, Chelan County judge will determine which one of us had the more reasonable take on this election.

  39. 44

    dj spews:

    Mr. Sharkansky @ 35,

    ”Had the canvassing board been given accurate information about the magnitude of the reconciliation discrepancies, they could have postponed certification pending an investigation and correction of the problems.
    Unfortunately, the law doesn’t seem to guide a canvassing board on what to do in case of irrconcilable discrepancies.”

    This is not completely true. The law provides a Canvassing Board with clear guidance when minor discrepancies are found. Specifically, RCW 29A.60.200 says:

    …. The county canvassing board shall proceed to verify the results from the precincts and the absentee ballots. The board shall execute a certificate of the results of the primary or election signed by all members of the board or their designees. Failure to certify the returns, if they can be ascertained with reasonable certainty, is a crime under RCW 29A.84.720.

    Not certifying an election that is “ascertained with reasonable certainty” is a class C felony under RCW 29A.84.720. A several hundred unresolved discrepancies out of 900,000 would hardly seem to fall outside of “reasonable certainty.

    I suppose the best they could do in the worst case when they the reconciliation discrepancy is greater than the “margin of victory” would be to be honest with the public about the magnitude of the irrconcilable discrepancy, be held accountable to voters for running a crappy election and let a fully informed legislature decide whether to inaugurate a governor who was elected by a whole mess of illegal votes.

    Huh? The margin of victory in KC was Gregoire: 505883, Rossi: 351115, and other ballots: 41635. Or are you seriously making the absurd suggestion that King County Canvassing Board was responsible for knowing and predicting the margin of victory for the State? (Holy shit, I am all in favor of giving KC Elections more resources to improve the election process, but not if it means hiring a clairvoyant). No county, including King County, is responsible for doing anything but tabulating and certifying the votes of the county by a deadline. The Statewide totals are completely irrelevant to the work of KC or any other county. Ideally, no county would even have any inkling of statewide total while they do their work.

    I suspect the latter would have been a harder roll call vote to defend than it was back in January when the true magnitude of the ballot discrepancies were only known to county election workers.
    Had all that been done 7 months ago, there could have been a political solution to the mess we’re in, instead of a judicial solution.

    Hogwash. The RCW is crystal clear that the canvassing board must certify the election “if they can be ascertained with reasonable certainty.” A few hundred known errors out of some 900,000 ballots is, objectively, a small rate of errors, and empirically, pretty typical for an election of this size.

    Finally, there is no provision for a “political solution.” This is just another example of a sore loser inventing fictitious new laws and procedures . . . .

  40. 46

    scottd spews:

    I don’t think the WAC 434-262-204 (or 434-253-203/204) claim goes anywhere. Even if you accept that King County Elections violated this rule, RCW 29A.68.070 declares that the violation needs to be material in changing the outcome of the election. Without this provision, perfectly valid elections could be set aside for technical violations of election rules.

    So, how was the alleged violation material? If the canvassing board had been shown the various reconciliation spreadsheets, what would have happened? They may have ordered additional investigation, but that alone would not have changed the election outcome. For the polling places that reported a discrepancy between signatures and counted ballots, the vast majority reported discrepancies of one or two ballots or signatures. Investigation of those precincts would have consisted of asking if workers searched the trashcans, double-checked the arithmetic, etc. Once that was confirmed, there would be nothing else to do and the results would have been accepted as is. There is nothing in state law that requires otherwise.

    For the few polling places that had larger discrepencies, the board may have investigated deeper, but it’s not clear that they would have found anything that would have caused them to withhold certification. Withholding certification is a very serious matter because it could ultimately lead to disenfranchising voters in the affected precincts or counties. One could argue that an investigation would have uncovered evidence weighty enough to lead to a change in the result, but there is no need for such an argument to be theoretical. All of the evidence that would have been available to the canvassing board is still available. If that evidence pointed to something material to the outcome of the election, it could have been presented. But it wasn’t.

    In order to make the WAC 434-262-204 claim stick, the GOP had to show that by not looking in detail at the reconciliation data, the canvassing board made decisions that caused Gregoire to win an election that she would have lost if the board had considered the reconciliation data. The GOP hasn’t shown that.

  41. 48

    Cliff spews:

    blah-blah-bah…..I think that sets the tone for the whole conversation. Goldstein is obviously a childish idiot. He even thinks this is all about Ron Sims and the next election….what a simpleton, the people of the rest of the state could care less who KING county elects as their leader…..simpleton, simpleton simpleton and a shameless simpleton at that. Give it up Goldstein, you just sounded like a fool, a childish fool.

  42. 49

    Priscilla spews:

    Reply to 39

    Your theory is untestable because all the yellow dogs are Republicans now and they will never be allowed back into the Democratic Party.

  43. 50

    Priscilla spews:

    45

    Actually, dj’s arguments are cogent and well reasoned, while all you can say is “hogwash, same old tired arguments.” dj 1, zap 0.

  44. 51

    Priscilla spews:

    scottd @ 46 got it right because the WAC is a non sequiter. Even if KC violated the WAC, the pertinent legal question is, So what? The remedy is NOT to set aside the election, but rather, for the SoS in his capacity as state overseer of elections to chastise the county election officials. Reason? Because the SoS does not exercise the legislative power under the state constitution. Consequently, a WAC promulgated by the SoS can neither create a new election contest cause of action, nor modify the election contest statute defining what is a cause of action to contest an election. Enforcement of the WAC lies elsewhere, via administrative penalties or remedies.

  45. 52

    zip spews:

    Goldy

    Unfortunately I missed the interview in question. However, using NPI as a source of anything has zero credibility. Those are the partisan hack guys who claim they exist to combat Eyman but ran a “Rossi=Craswell=Eyman” ad during the election.

    NPI credibility=zero.

  46. 53

    zapporo spews:

    Prissy Fancy-Lad @ 50 –
    Come back here Suzy, I’m not done with you yet.

    I’m not going to waste hours debunking a deluded argument which will be settled on Monday. Just one small example – the totally bogus that absentee voter reconcilliation doesn’t matter. Well that’s not according to sworn testimony from, what, Mr. H., the Democratic star witness.

    That’s the point you itinerant garrulous cross-dresser.
    Do the other girls like you much?

  47. 54

    WingDingALings @ it again spews:

    wes @ previous

    FANTASTIC! The party of Linda Smith, Ellen Craswell, John “Harley” Carlson and WILL BAKER!

    Q: Fess up Wingers! How many threw the lever for BAKER?

    Sad, sad, sad!

  48. 55

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    Grow up, ProudAss—what is this, fucking Kindergarten using words like “Potty mouth”? blah blah blah blah Comment by dj— 6/4/05 @ 11:26 pm

    Nice try NumbNuts, wasn’t me.

  49. 56

    WingDingALings @ it again spews:

    dj @ 20

    I think that “Potty Mouth” remark can be attributed to Jeff B. who has appointed his sad self as Goldy’s personal “Miss Manners”.

    If I were a betting man that’s who I’d pick.

  50. 57

    dj spews:

    Eugenics @ 55,

    “Nice try NumbNuts, wasn’t me.”

    Then I apologize to you, ma’am.

    But, one lingering question . . . how on earth did you know that I accidentally applied dental anesthetic gel instead of jock-itch gel to my balls this morning?

  51. 58

    Priscilla spews:

    53

    Sorry, I’m not your dog, and I’m not going to come when you whistle.

    Even if I were to have the operation, I would still have more balls left than you were born with.

  52. 60

    spews:

    zip @ 52
    so it’s your testimony that NPI has somehow ALTERED the tape? Wouldn’t Stefan have mentioned something about that?

    That’s just sad. Fox is a miserable network, but if they put an official document up in a pdf, I have no problems linking to it and referring to it as legitimate. Primary source material may be the ONLY thing I trust from Fox, but if they’re just facilitating the distribution, who cares?

    The partisan hack appears to be you in this case.

  53. 61

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    dj–
    That was a good retort to the “numbnutz” allegation.
    How do you survive in the LEFTIST PINHEAD world with the likes of Priscilla/Don/Alan/Thomas/thatPrick etal with 43 identities makeing 60% of all HA posts??? And boobs like Erik who judges Goldy’s Blog by the number of posts….rather than readers or # of seperate posters???

    Well, I suppose God through you in there to be the voice of reason in a cesspool of LEFTIST PINHEAD insanity.

    dj–I think more than your balls will be numb by 9:15AM tomorrow!

  54. 62

    marks spews:

    dj @57

    Glad I am not the only one to make that mistake. Of course, I was cured of that proclivity when I accidentally applied Mentholatum…

  55. 63

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    Good grief, I guess it’s true what they say… that the Y chromosomes do indeed think with their little head and not the one on their shoulders. I can’t figure out why you’d be anxious to prove it though.

  56. 64

    Goldy spews:

    Zip @52,

    a) It’s the complete audio of Thursday’s segment. It either is or it isn’t.

    b) NPI ran ads? In your paranoid little fantasy world.

    Do I hear a retraction coming?

  57. 65

    Terry Clark C spews:

    I’m almost ashmed to associate myself with blog that has the mentality of shave your back side to get a better view, the HA name says it all…but here I am despite reservations.

    I have the upmost respect for Stephan and SP. During the time when the votes for the 2004 election came in I watched while King county systematically manipulated, discovered, found, and inhanced ballots untill they arrived with the total that would best fit their needs, but as we all know now they were too stupid to make it look good on the books… The cops always say that the majority of crooks are not always the brightest bulbs in the elections office! Now let me tell you how I really feel, a few months ago Stephan was invited to appear on FOX news with Brit Hume, I watched that was a NATIONWIDE BROADCAST, There is a reason why he was invited, that is because he knows what the hell he’s talking about.
    Anyone who denies that King County screwed up this election is totally living in la la land….which I realize is now in 2005 the location of the Democratic Party headquarters. Go Howard Dean…YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

  58. 66

    dj spews:

    Pricilla @ 59

    “Good one, dj! Can I use it sometime?”

    You can use the line. . . but, you’ll have to get your own gel :-)

    Mr. Cynical @

    “That was a good retort to the “numbnutz” allegation.
    How do you survive in the LEFTIST PINHEAD world with the likes of . . . .”

    Thanks! Perhaps I survive the same way you (a fiscally conservative, quasi-Libertarian) survive in the world of no-tax and spend Neocons.

    “I think more than your balls will be numb by 9:15AM tomorrow!”

    Mr. C., I’ll keep the dental gel ready to inject in my ear on Monday morning.

    Marks @ 62

    “Glad I am not the only one to make that mistake. Of course, I was cured of that proclivity when I accidentally applied Mentholatum”

    I hear that’s a folk remedy, indigenous to Texas, originally used during summer blackouts. :-)

  59. 67

    zip spews:

    tj & Goldy

    No my “testimony” is that NPI is a hatchet bearer for the partisan demos. Goldy linking to NPI is like a wingnut linking to Rush Limbaugh. Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t NPI and PD the same Andrew? Here is the link that offended me (and all the other pro-Rossi anti-Eyman crowd who previously had thought that bashing Eyman could be NON PARTISAN):

    http://www.permanentdefense.or.....Rossi.html

    Sorry Goldy I foolishly called their “press release” an “ad”.

  60. 68

    righton spews:

    wow, lotta pinkos got cafeeined up w/ piss and vinegar to spread for one and all.

    you guys love to think seattle is so smart and progressive; no different election wise than Cook County or hill country texas (where lbj stole elections).

    we should have a sobriety test for voting; would cull out about 1000 of the bums you guys pushed absentee ballots in front of. they likely thought it was a coupon for some MD20/20

  61. 69

    pbj spews:

    “However, KVI, despite its normally one sided approach believed your presence increased the number of listeners. You got to love the free market sometimes.”

    Erik, that is an interesting point. And one to which I am eager to know the answer.

    Goldy – can you please put up a poll asking all the Democrats that have never listened to KVI in the past if they will now listen to KVI regularly because of your appearance.

    I have my own feelings on it. I personally believe that more regular listeners were discouraged from listening than new listeners that have become KVI regulars. But the data would be interesting and telling.

    So how many of you Democrat who never listened before will listen on a regular basis now?

  62. 70

    spews:

    zip @ 67

    So what? What possible relevance does that have to whether the clip is authentic or not? You are ranting without cause.

  63. 71

    ralph spews:

    I don’t think a poll by Goldy would be “data.” Unless you were a democrat. Then it might qualify as “evidence,” “votes,” and “the truth.” This blog’s comments are a sad commentary on the state of the left wing.

  64. 72

    Thomas Trainwinder spews:

    Reading SP is like a kool-aid drinking party. Many there don’t even admit there is a chance the Rs will lose! Amazing…when one wants to believe something, and finds a ton of like-minded individuals, the beliefs just grow into something surreal.

    The funniest part is that some folks actually complement the even-handedness and objectivity of the reporting there. Looks like a good deprogrammer could make some serious coin …

  65. 73

    Donnageddon spews:

    Lawdy! The minnow speaks! In his inarticlulate, stump-mud stupid kinda way @ 2

    “I do think that KVI listeners would rather hear an election official explain why they certified the election ..legally instead of listening to some insignificant fool just make stuff up.”

    I wonder the same thing. Why did Carlson invite you minnow?

  66. 74

    Priscilla spews:

    The minnow and all the rest of the trolls are getting edgy as Monday morning rushes toward them like a speeding train.

  67. 75

    headless lucy spews:

    I’m glad to see that Stefan has finally found a blog to post on that doesn’t ban people. And almost everyone has been polite enough not to call him the little totalitarian snot that he is.

  68. 76

    jsa on beacon hill spews:

    ralph @ 71,

    You’re new here. pbj is one of our resident conservatives. I don’t know if that magically validates his question or not.

    pbj @ 69:

    Nope. Every now and then I think about it, but Goldy is on during working hours, listening to the radio is distracting for long periods of time, and I don’t need any more distractions. End of story.

  69. 77

    righton spews:

    ralph at 71; very good one. To carry it further, they would certify, ratify, canvass, extrapolate, ventilate (the corpses who vote) and try to nullify

  70. 78

    Thomas Trainwinder spews:

    Amazing. I posted a notice on ScottM’s blog (the drunken R one) noting that his view that if the Rs lost, it’s because we have no effective laws (not because an impartial judge made an informed decision).

    I likened this to the R’s calling the judges who issue rulings they don’t like “activist” while saying those they do like are “upholding the law”.

    Finally, and most interestingly, I noted that I wouldn’t post this on Stefan’s blog because he has the anti-democratic tendency to ban comments he doesn’t like (as opposed to free speech).

    AMAZING..within 10 minutes, Scott REMOVED my posting! There were no bad words, no inflammatory speech..just the above notes.

    The Rs really REALLY don’t like dissenting views….

  71. 79

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Goldy–
    In all due respect….which is none!
    I want to congratulate you for blending the voice of Pee Wee Herman with the personality of Bud Bundy (annoying little prick on Married..With Children) and the looks of Gilbert Gottfried!!!

    Tomorrow will be hard on your fragile psychy and ego…..but you will survive. You won’t ever be successful, but you will survive.

    Thanks Goldy.

    Mr. Cynical…..signing off.

  72. 80

    chardonnay spews:

    pbj @ 69
    maybe a poll asking how many of us turned off KVI after the first week of listening to Goldy (carville).

  73. 81

    chardonnay spews:

    FTR, if all conservatives stop posting here for even one day HA comments would total 1. And then who would don/thatprick/cybil have to play with? OH, himself!!

  74. 83

    Priscilla spews:

    Thank God Chardonnay is back! We were worried about you. We need a Chardonnay to kick around. :D

  75. 85

    Priscilla spews:

    Terry @ 65

    Feel free to leave anytime you don’t like it here. You lost me when you said “I have the upmost respect for Stephan and SP,” proving yourself illiterate, a bad speller, and ignorant in merely 9 words. Rhetorical question: Can anyone be this stupid? Answer: Unfortunately, yes.

  76. 87

    Priscilla spews:

    68

    You had me going there for a second. When you said “hill country texas,” I thought you were going to say, “where Bush came from.”

  77. 89

    Priscilla spews:

    I was trying to think of some witty response to Chardonnay, but her posts are so vacuous and devoid of content that I’m left speechless. How do you reply to nothing? You scientists out there — when you’re confronted with a perfect vacuum, what do you do with it?

  78. 90

    righton spews:

    Pris; up late? I thought lithium made it easier to sleep

    What’s GWB got to do with LBJ stealing votes? (dont’ bore me w/ florida 2000; try reading up on lbj’s congressional then senate then finally vp results) (goldwater defeated himself)