Terrorists shut down Olympia abortion clinic

According to the FBI, their number one domestic terrorism priority is combating animal rights extremists and eco-terrorists. Yeah… that’s right, in an age when a widely-read fascist propagandist like Anne Coulter publicly calls for executions to “physically intimidate liberals,” the FBI worries about the “escalation in violent rhetoric” coming from a handful of fringe whackos.

In fact, while the FBI works to demonize the broader animal rights and environmental movements, it virtually ignores a domestic terrorist campaign that has been waged with quiet ferocity and frightening success for over thirty years. Of course I’m talking about the anti-abortion terrorists, whose relentless campaign of violence and intimidation has made legal abortion an unavailable option across broad swaths of the nation.

Over the last 20 years, anti-abortion terrorists have been responsible for six murders and 15 attempted murders (see Lake of Fire), according to the National Abortion Federation. They have also been behind some 200 bombings and arsons, 72 attempted arsons, 750 death and bomb threats and hundreds of acts of vandalism, intimidation, stalking and burglary.

That was from a 1998 report by the Southern Poverty Legal Center, and the campaign of terror continues unabated, including what has proven to be a highly successful strike near our state Capitol.

When an arsonist torched their clinic nearly a year ago, Eastside Women’s Health Clinic owners Nancy Armstrong and Shelly Pacheco vowed not to let fear keep them from providing abortions.

But when they reopen the clinic Monday, after a year working out of a double-wide trailer in the parking lot, there will be no more abortions.

It wasn’t the arsonist who stopped them, but their insurance company.

After the Jan. 9 fire, which burned through the roof of the building and destroyed much of the interior, the clinic’s insurance company canceled its coverage. Other insurers quoted them rates more than 10 times what they had been paying.

“The insurance companies think, “Oh, you had an arson because you do abortions. We’re not going to insure you,’ ” Armstrong said. “Then the arsonist thinks, “Oh, it works.’ “

And it does work. To get an insurance rate the clinic owners could afford, they had to agree to not perform abortions. Chalk up another victory for the terrorists.

Terrorists have forced abortion providers to shut down clinics nationwide, either out of fear for their lives and those of their family and employees, or as in the case of the Olympia clinic, by making it economically impossible to continue. What anti-abortion forces have been unable to achieve via legislation or the courts, they are achieving through brute, physical violence.

And with the eliminationist rhetoric spreading from the right-wing fringe into the mainstream, where Coulter can call for executing liberals, and anonymous posters in my own comment thread (though not as anonymous as they might think) routinely and publicly welcome such a violent fate for me, it would be foolish not to imagine this culture of terror creeping further into our political discourse. How many arson attacks against the houses and cars of liberal bloggers and other political activists before insurance companies deny us coverage? (…Or refuse to pay claims, citing the provision that they are not responsible for damages suffered by a policy holder engaged in a civil war?) How many progressives would no longer choose to speak out in the wake of a handful of targeted, high-profile assassinations?

For the FBI to imply that the greatest domestic terrorist threat facing America today comes from the largely unarmed and nonviolent left, is a joke, a sham, and a frighteningly complicit signal to the anti-abortionists that the federal government will continue to look the other way as they continue their campaign of terror. Even in Olympia, the capitol of a blue state, violent, right-wing thugs are denying women their constitutional right to control their own bodies. It begs the question… what will the terrorists target next?

Comments

  1. 1

    Michael spews:

    after a year working out of a double-wide trailer

    You been doing abortions out of your house again?

  2. 4

    JCH spews:

    I think Hillary and “Tookie” Williams 2008 will solve this problem!!! “Tootie’ [huge arms] might even cure Hillary of the “lesbian thang”. [hehe]

  3. 5

    Donnageddon spews:

    Micheal wants to make sure all those fetuses become babies so they can die in a war for his amusement.

  4. 6

    Donnageddon spews:

    Oh, prriss, if you encountered any liberal or progressive, you would piss your panties and run the other way.

  5. 7

    christmasghost spews:

    ann coulter was JOKING you complete twit, goldy. for cripes sake. you make more obnoxious and threat filled comments regularily.
    as for torching anything…IT’S WRONG. we have laws that should be enforced. abortion is legal….completely unnecessary…but legal.
    as for enviro terrorists…how can you slam one group breaking the law while making excuses for another[that you don’t happen to agree with]????
    oh that’s right…….you are full of it.
    i call BS on you goldy….get your stories straight.

  6. 8

    christmasghost spews:

    and…enviro terrorist is really code for a really really stupid person. they burn down houses being built to protest cutting the trees down to build the houses in the first place so then you have to cut down more trees for MORE LUMBER….to re-build the house.
    does this make sense to anyone? other than goldy that is……..
    threatening or frightening people into doing anything is wrong.isn’t this why you have such a problem with the far right christians goldy, hmmmm?
    but, you know, once you go down the path of “the end justifies the means” you are already lost.[see king county elections here]
    so in “goldy-land” enviro terrorist good, abortion clinic terrorist bad????
    they are both wrong.
    but thanks for showing your true colors once again goldy.

  7. 9

    Donnageddon spews:

    XmasG, I hate to say it, but for once we agree. I have no sympathy for a terrorist of any stripe, whether animal rights, enviro or aborthion clinic.

    They should all be treated the same for the crimes they commit.

  8. 10

    Donnageddon spews:

    Oh, and if Ann “Andy Kayfman” Colter was joking about killing liberals, then she is as funny as a dead conservative.

  9. 11

    christmasghost spews:

    god……i am still laughing at this comment of yours…..
    “How many arson attacks against the houses and cars of liberal bloggers and other political activists before insurance companies deny us coverage? (…Or refuse to pay claims, citing the provision that they are not responsible for damages suffered by a policy holder engaged in a civil war?) How many progressives would no longer choose to speak out in the wake of a handful of targeted, high-profile assassinations?”
    you are just not that important goldy. good grief. if only anyone else had the same opinion of you that you do….why, you might have a real job at a newspaper.
    and tell me…..what is ‘progressive’ about the far left libs? hmmmm? shouldn’t you really be using the word…’aggressive’ instead?LOL.
    where was all the outrage from you when your ‘peeps’ were slashing car tires or keying cars? and what about the WTO riots? stealing election signs? sure not as bad as burning down a clinic……but still in the same vein of thought.
    mindless………

  10. 12

    christmasghost spews:

    well don…is hell feezing over? LOL. you and i agreeing on something?
    but all kidding aside……..although i am a staunch environmentalist and animal rights supporter…i too, do not belive that terrorism of any kind is ever acceptable.
    and ann was joking….unless of course al franken wasn’t kidding on some of his remarks. stupid remarks are stupid remarks….they have no party.

  11. 13

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Yet another attempt by Heir CLOWNstein to attempt to paint many with the unlawful & disgusting actions of a few.
    All the LEFTIST PINHEADS have to offer is fear, fear & more fear. CLOWNS are void in the solution department….which is why they are so pathetic whenever the scare their way into power.

    I expected the typical losers like DonDon to jump all over this fringe lunatic stuff because he is quite apparently a FRINGE LUNATIC!!!

    Goldy’s implication here is that somehow violent anarchy on the Fringe Right is worse than violent anarchy on the Fringe Left.

    It’s good for discussion but hey, it’s snowing out!

  12. 14

    christmasghost spews:

    and SPEAKING OF TERRORISTS…….. gregoire is now forcing people to pay union dues or lose their jobs. wow….what a swell idea. extortion.
    why don’t you comment on that goldy?

  13. 16

    headless lucy spews:

    WEll, you on the right say that Muslims should police their radical right. Why not you, Mr. Cynical? Aren’t you responsible

  14. 17

    prr spews:

    Donnageddon

    The great supporter of Operation Truth.

    BTW, they are still waiting to hear from you and it sounds like you have a few donations to catch up on, Liar.

  15. 18

    JCH spews:

    DON, Only Hillary/”Tookie” Williams 2008 can save us!!! This team is the heart and soul of today’s Democrat Party!!

  16. 19

    proud leftist spews:

    Whether Ann Coulter is joking when she advocates execution of liberals is not really the point. That sort of talk gets the fringe right all worked up; those who dwell in dark basements and dream of conspiracies hear that sort of talk and think they are normal people. Ann Coulter is not funny. She is a syphilitic blister that needs a dose of antibiotics. By the way Michael and prr, did you buttfucks not get breast-fed as infants? You two have a lot of hostilities built up.

  17. 20

    windie spews:

    Man I hate terrorists… And complicit gov’t agencies. Altho, really… I’m betting the FBI’s comments are more media fueled than they are set by the administration… Which do you hear more about in the news?

    Ohhh, PS: Gonna steal some jokes, enjoy!
    http://www.workingforchange.co.....emid=18358
    http://www.workingforchange.co.....emid=18597
    (those 2 strips summ up almost ALL the troll-tricks, so I thought I”d share them. Plus great humorists like Xmasghost and Mr. Irrelevant will be sure to enjoy them!)

  18. 21

    JCH spews:

    Hillary/”Tookie” Williams 2008!! Sec Of State: Maxine Waters, Sec of Def: Jane Fonda, Sec of Labor: Union Hack Sweeney, Sec Of Interior: Cinthia McKinney Sec Of Everything Else: DON and Roger Rabbit!!!!

  19. 24

    Dr. E spews:

    “We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors.” – Ann Coulter, at the Conservative Political Action Conference, 02-26-02

    Sorry, folks, joke or no joke, that’s fascist rhetoric.

    “Ann Coulter is right, the Government should start shooting you fuckers on site [sic]….”
    Comment by prr— 12/1/05 @ 11:22 am

    Sorry, folks, joke or no joke, that’s fascist rhetoric.

  20. 25

    JCH spews:

    Paris – French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin said on Thursday that government will fine parents whose children skip school and companies that discriminate against minorities as part of new measures to improve opportunities in poor suburbs. Villepin laid out plans to better education and tackle job discrimination in underprivileged neighbourhoods [This is racist as black parents would have to take responsibility for their little gang thugs. Everyone knows Bush is to blame!!!!!!!!!!!!]

  21. 27

    christmasghost spews:

    prr……..what a great line about tookie ” i’m-not-really-sorry-at-all” williams!!!
    and the liberal fruitcakes will be lining up to try and save him with a candlelight vigil you can bet. too bad they don’t go to his victims’ houses to help them out………
    think of the thousands of young black and hispanic men he is responsible for killing.

  22. 30

    prr spews:

    Christmasghost,

    Thanks man.

    As a founder of the crips, I would say this guy has thousands of deaths on his coscience.

    Also, I heard an interesting tidbit on the radio this morning.

    Tookie is lauded as being a “best selling author”, his most widely read book has sold a record, 330 copies. That’s right, Three Hundred and thirty.

    Enough of this crap about people apologizing after the kill innocent victims. If that’s the case, I think that Governor Arnold, should grant him clemency… In 14 days.

    He could apologize for his mistake after the fact, the liberals should agree that justice is all about admitting your mistakes, after they happen.

  23. 32

    ConservativeFirst spews:

    by Goldy, 12/01/2005, 11:03 AM

    “For the FBI to imply that the greatest domestic terrorist threat facing America today comes from the largely unarmed and nonviolent left”

    Unarmed and non-violent? Please. The FBI is referring to ELF and ALF, as they often use violent means to bring notice to their cause. They are just as repugnant as the abortion arsonists. Are you so blinded by your liberal progressive views you can’t see that?

  24. 35

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    windie@12–
    I don’t get the “joke”….it appears pretty much really world to me!!!
    PS Save TOokie!!!! He only brutally murdered 4 people. And he has lived an extra 25 years….more than his VICTIMS!
    Screw the victims families….Tookie is writing positive books.
    Look at how Tookie has changed Snoop Doggs life!!!
    Snoop is now doing Girl’s Gone Wild marketing…selling videos of naked 18 year-old drunk college girls!
    Snoop is a wonderful example of Tookies work!

  25. 36

    prr spews:

    Also,

    Just look at the postive role Tookie has played on his own kids lives.

    Both of his sons are also incarcerated, 1 for murder.

  26. 37

    Daddy Love spews:

    While lawless acts should be punished wherever they occur and however perpetrates them, this tautology should not be used to obscure that facts Goldy was pointing out to us:
    a) The FBI is making it clear that they are NOT as interested in punishing some lawbreakers as they are others; and
    b) The lawbreakers they claim are our biggest threat are NOT, to my knowledge, responsible for acts on a par with “six murders and 15 attempted murders (see Lake of Fire), according to the National Abortion Federation. They have also been behind some 200 bombings and arsons, 72 attempted arsons, 750 death and bomb threats and hundreds of acts of vandalism, intimidation, stalking and burglary.” and the ones who are responsible are WAY down on their list, and that ain’t right.

    That’s the point. Anyone remember it?

  27. 38

    Donnageddon spews:

    prriss @ 14. No prriss, Operation tuth is doing just fine. And on good financial grounding to fight Soldier-Hating assholes like you. But they could always use more help.

    Lying ChickenHawk scumbag.

  28. 40

    prr spews:

    Donna…..

    How would you know they need more help, it’s not like you’ve ever contributed anything to them.

    As to Chickenhawk statement, I am looking at my discharge papers right now, I was honorably discharged on April 14, 1994. So go to you liberal bitch handbook and look up the definition of chickenhawk.

  29. 41

    horse whisperer spews:

    Very sad. The right wing criminal thugs win and the women with lower incomes will be hurt the most, forced to travel to larger cities. It would be great to come up with some sort of fundraising effort to stop this shit. The nut bags agenda for years has been to chip away, make things so difficult that legitimate clinics will go away. Unless it’s stopped we will be back to the back alley abortions which killed and maimed many women. Again, the poor will suffer. Wake up America for how we treat the less fortunate among us reflects on who we are as a country. Not unlike how we treated the folks in New Orleans!

  30. 42

    Donnageddon spews:

    prriss, “How would you know they need more help, it’s not like you’ve ever contributed anything to them.”

    Hmmm… and you know this how? Because you just made it up? How convienient.

    But then lying about Operation Truth, and your “discharge papers” are really not so different. You would lie about anything, because truth has no meaning to a Neo-Con.

  31. 43

    prr spews:

    Don’t worry Horse whisperer,

    The rest of America has woken up.

    And yes, you are right, people have been chipping away at America. They are called Liberals.

    So when you shop this holiday season and someone wishes you a Merry Christmas or Happy Hannukah, instead of the politically correct, Happy Holidays or winter harvest greeting, or whatever Lib BS slogan you’ve come up with, recognize that those are the people who are going to take back america.

  32. 44

    Donnageddon spews:

    prriss “The rest of America has woken up.”

    Yes, prriss, and the polls are showing that awakening!

  33. 45

    horse whisperer spews:

    prr,

    Please don’t ever lecture to me regarding my religious freedom which by the way my father contributed to in WWII. How I greet people during the Holiday Season is of no concern to you and furthermore I need NO suggestions from small minded bigots.

  34. 46

    prr spews:

    Hporse whisperer,

    Great,

    I am sure you father is very dissapointed in how you came out.

    Just look at that, one generation saves the world and next destroys it.

  35. 47

    prr spews:

    Donna,,,,,

    Lookin at poll numbers, huh?

    why not look at re-enlistment rates in combat trrops?

    Because you’d rather just admit defeat, coward.

  36. 48

    Donnageddon spews:

    prriss @ 40 And you would rather sit on your ass and send OPC to fight a war you so obviously love.

    You Chickenhearted scumbag.

  37. 49

    sgmmac spews:

    We are NOT going back to back-alley abortions! I grew up in that era, and there are many millions of women like me who will NOT tolerate going back to back-alley abortions.

  38. 50

    horse whisperer spews:

    prr,

    Actually my father and myself were very close and shared very simular political views. What a stupid fucker you are!

  39. 53

    prr spews:

    Horsewhisperer,

    That’s just the stuff Dad’s tell their kids so they don’t feel bad about themselves.

  40. 55

    prr spews:

    “You Chickenhearted scumbag”

    I guess that’s better than chickenhawk scumbag.

    Certainly better than calling me a liberal.

  41. 57

    Left is Right spews:

    prr @ 40 –

    Lookin at poll numbers, huh?

    why not look at re-enlistment rates in combat trrops?

    Because you’d rather just admit defeat, coward.

    Comment by prr— 12/1/05 @ 1:25 pm

    The Bush Administration lowers re-enlistment rates several times over the summer so they could “meet their goals” They also did the same with recruiting numbers. gheesh.

    anyways that was just a pathetic attempt to change the subject to something you thought might be good for you to rant about. Sorry, i got some news for ya – Delay – under inditment / Scooter Libby – under inditement / Frist – under investigation / poll numbers – in the toilet.

    Oh how I wish we could have ken starr come and save us from this mess we’re in.

  42. 58

    prr spews:

    left is right…..

    You are confusing recruiting numbers and Re-enlistment rates.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/n.....list_x.htm

    “Re-enlistment rates the past three years have been at least 6% above the service’s goals for the 500,000-member active Army. There are about 105,000 Army soldiers in Iraq, including members of the National Guard and Reserve.

    “The biggest thing is that soldiers believe in what they are doing,” Head said.”

  43. 59

    thomas spews:

    Ann Coultier, now your talking….you so rarely quote anything I agree with…okay, never. But at least you mentioned her name.
    Thats something anyway, oh the rest….boring …next

  44. 60

    Left is Right spews:

    Maybe because they have no place to really go home to?

    Read – Military targets isolated, depressed areas

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....its09.html

    ANN SCOTT TYSON / THE WASHINGTON POST

    WASHINGTON — As combat in Iraq makes it harder than ever to fill the ranks of the all-volunteer force, newly released Pentagon demographic data show that the military is leaning heavily for recruits on economically depressed, rural areas.

  45. 61

    Left is Right spews:

    Oh yeah this is about recruiting –

    Big drop in Seattle for Army recruits

    “Army recruiters in the Seattle area are falling so far behind their goals that since last October, they’ve enlisted only about one-third of the young men and women they’d hoped for.”

    http://archives.seattletimes.n.....ry+bonuses

    I am still looking for the article that says how they tried to screw the re-enlisters out of their re-enlistment bonuses.

  46. 62

    spews:

    It is ironic that these people protest killing by killing. “I act as God’s servant, and God wants me to kill those I disagree with.” Sounds like a certain fellas livin’ in a cave in Pakistan (or Dick Cheney’s summer house).

  47. 63

    prr spews:

    “I am still looking for the article that says how they tried to screw the re-enlisters out of their re-enlistment bonuses.”

    This is something new?

  48. 64

    prr spews:

    “Maybe because they have no place to really go home to?”

    So what you are saying is that only unpemplyed rednecks are in the military?

    whatever happened to supporting thr troops?

  49. 65

    Left is Right spews:

    This is too easy prrrr –

    Marines get big bucks to re-enlist

    “SAN DIEGO — With the prospect of continued fighting in Iraq, the Marine Corps is offering bonuses of as much as $30,000 — in some cases, tax-free — to persuade enlisted personnel with combat experience and training to re-enlist….

    …..Giving bonuses to encourage Marines to re-enlist is not a new program. But this year’s bonus schedule marks the first time that “combat arms” specialties have received the largest of the bonuses. The top bonus for those specialties a year ago was about $7,000.”

    I bet they were hoping to get more than 6% above their goal by offering these fatty bonuses. They are desparate for a positive story that they are bribing military to re-enlist. Ok not bribing, offering bonuses that are over 4x what was offered in the past.

    Still looking for the article that says the recruits are pissed because they never recieved these bonuses…

  50. 66

    horse whisperer spews:

    Poll numbers sinking in the hero of the whacko’s, far right Dukestir, $7,000. tiolet! Hey the Duke was all for denying women rights to their own bodies. Prr must be proud of family values Duke.

  51. 67

    sgmmac spews:

    @55
    Keep looking, it’s out there somewhere. They reversed their decision and the soldiers are being paid.

  52. 68

    Left is Right spews:

    Prrrr –

    I do support the troops.

    If you could either

    A) re-elist in the Army and make a bonus OR

    B) go home to some shit-hole town that you wanted to get the hell out of in the first place.

    I am suprised that the Army is only doing better by 6%. Seems that $30k still isnt enough to keep people from getting out -

  53. 69

    Left is Right spews:

    I know they reversed theiur decision.

    They still put the soldiers through hell by not giving them what they were promised. They had to make a stink about it.

    How about that for supporting the troops? hmmm prrr?

  54. 70

    prr spews:

    That’s 6% above their goals.

    The point is that contrary to the BS we here on the news or scumbags like Goldy spewing, the ground troops are re-enlisting in big numbers because they believe in what they are doing.

    And before you start with the BS about monetary gains, no-one who did not believe what they are fighting for is going to re-enlist because of a bonus. That’s a plus, sure, but as an argument that is just a bunch of crap.

  55. 72

    Apache Fog spews:

    So, Cynical, dodging the real issue. You on the right say that moderate Muslims must control the jihadists. If that is true aren’t you responsible for your abortion/violence fruitcakes. An eye for an eye, fruitcake….

  56. 73

    horse whisperer spews:

    prr should go over and post at freeperville, he would fit right in. The other day I went over to check the freeper’s reaction to Dukestir’s troubles. What was really funny was how they worshipped the guy just a few months ago when he defended OLE Rummy. He was right up there with Bush and GOD. One does have to wonder just how high in DOD Dukey’s mess might go???

  57. 74

    prr spews:

    Apache fog…

    Oh, I see your logic.

    So by that rational, because the liberals support Saddam and the terrorists, for each US soldier killed or wounded, a liberal should be killed or wounded.

    After all, an eye for an eye. Right?

  58. 76

    prr spews:

    Horse whisper….

    Lets look at him a few months ago, Vietnam fighter ace twice over, then went into public service, what’s not to admire?

    Now, he is just another scumbag politician that was taking bribes and should be punished. As it is a time of war and his greed could have harmed military service members, he should be shot.

    My only surpirse is that I expect this type of behavior out of democrats.

  59. 77

    prr spews:

    Horse whisperer, why not?

    I’m sure you have a love relationship with that piece of shit Teddy Kennedy and he’s never done a damn thing but lie, cheat and kill his way through life.

  60. 78

    horse whisperer spews:

    Prr,

    It seems you might be in for more surprises. Rumor has it that there may be an additional 50 congressional indictments coming down. The big surprise for you is that the vast majority will be surprise, Republican and another surprise mostly the right wing anti-women variety. Apparently just couldn’t keep greedy little mitts out of the cookie jar. Kind of like OLE hero Duke who went home and preached to the brainless flock of sheep.

  61. 80

    prr spews:

    “Rumor has it ”

    The liberal Rumor mill, you mean the conspiracy factory don’t you?

    I’ll believe it when I see it. Until then I’ll just keep believeing that your father’s last thought about you was…

    “Look at this fucking idiot”

  62. 81

    sgmmac spews:

    @64
    agh, I should have know that school would be let out early in Seattle due to the snow….. It’s been so peaceful without you Lucy, Apache, Dr E. and whoever else you call yourself!

  63. 82

    horse whisperer spews:

    liberal rumor mill came from Republican hill staffer. Wait and See! A few months ago the Duke shit was also the liberal rumor mill!

  64. 83

    prr spews:

    Ha…

    The last time I checked other Liberal conspiracy that were just about to break were:
    Hunpty dumpty was pushed, Jim Morrison is Alive, The mafia & the CIA killed JFK, Marilyn Mnroe was assisnated, Courtney killed Kurt Cobain, Elvis works at 7-11, Area 51 is a martian landing zone, etc…..

    Lie I said, I’ll believe it when i see it.

  65. 84

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    “the largely unarmed and nonviolent left”

    Liberals must arm! Not to blow up logging equipment or burn down developments (which I condemn!!), but simply for self-defense — in case Coulter and her ilk come to arrest us for being liberals.

  66. 85

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    “what will the terrorists target next”

    A car bomb parked outside the Montlake Ale House on a Tuesday evening?

  67. 86

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @3

    “Ann Coulter is right, the Government should start shooting you fuckers on site….”

    Brave words for a … bu-uhk buhk cluck-cluck … no-show.

  68. 87

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @6

    “Oh, prriss, if you encountered any liberal or progressive, you would piss your panties and run the other way.”

    He already has.

  69. 88

    horse whisperer spews:

    prr,
    That’s the attitude the righties like from the brainless flock, just keep drinking the koolaide, don’t think or question em. Bad news for them is the brainless flock is dwindling. What’s Captain Clueless’s latest numbers?? 32% was the last number I heard a few days back. Murtha seems to be connecting with the folks. Don’t you guys have anything nasty to say about Murtha?

  70. 89

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    spit-and-run prr … he spits on Vietnam veterans, then runs like a chicken … bu-uhk buhk cluck-cluck …

  71. 91

    Mom spews:

    Abortion is a really good thing for liberals to do because
    it just is not fair to raise a perfectly good child to be
    a dumbass when they grow up. Turn on the hoover!

  72. 92

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    To whomever it was whining about all those poor little poverty ridden duped into joining the military…. do you read your own left wing tripe? USA Today 11/27/2005

    …According to a comprehensive study of all enlistees for the years 1998-99 and 2003 that The Heritage Foundation just released, the typical recruit in the all-volunteer force is wealthier, more educated and more rural than the average 18- to 24-year-old citizen is. Indeed, for every two recruits coming from the poorest neighborhoods, there are three recruits coming from the richest neighborhoods.

    and oh gee, the racial demographics of recruitment MIRRORS teh racial demographics of the adult population…

    Second, we explored the 100 three-digit ZIP code areas with the highest concentration of blacks, which range from 24.1% black up to 68.6%. These areas, which account for 14.6% of the adult population, produced 16.6% of recruits in 1999 and only 14.1% in 2003.

    To the nitwit bragging/celebrating Bush poll numbers are going down… wrong again, sweetcheeks. And actually another report< ?A> has it a bit higher.

    Then there’s donniegetsNone… salivating over a poor economy….um, no… “DOW NEARS 11,000… ” and Personal Income, Construction Spending Up

    I can’t wait to tackle all your reasons why it’s ok to murder babies….

    Watch for it, proborts and baby killers.

  73. 94

    proud leftist spews:

    Roger @ 84
    I agree completely. I’ve become a fervent 2nd Amendment guy since the irrational right took over. When those freaks criminalize progressive thought, they’d better count on us being armed. Bring it on, you bastards.

  74. 97

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    they’d better count on us being armed. -Comment by proud leftist— 12/1/05 @ 3:38 pm

    Oh we don’t doubt you’re armed… it’s just that you’re too slow and inept to actually be able to get access to your pop guns what with your manly gun safes, trigger locks and your corks locked up in another building.

  75. 98

    christmasghost spews:

    “Just think of the death penalty as a new version of the Day After Pill.”

    Comment by prr

    prr……..i am still wiping the tears away from laughing! thanks for that laugh out loud moment.
    only in tookie’s case it would be the 25x 365 day after pill….
    come over to http://www.christmasghost.com and tell californians what you think about old tookie.
    still laughing……….

  76. 99

    yearight spews:

    ‘Yeah… that’s right, in an age when a widely-read fascist propagandist like Anne Coulter publicly calls for executions to “physically intimidate liberals,”..’

    Is that the best example you have? Calling for execution of a traitor is facist? Leaving aside the death penalty aspect, do lefties think traitors should not be punished severely?

    Question for the self-annointed – When killing slaves was legal, or at least allowed by local law, would it be proper to label as “terrorist” someone who killed a slaveowner to stop him from killing a slave?

  77. 100

    windie spews:

    @95

    Wow, the markets are almost up to where they were when Bush came into office!

    So, they’ve almost broken even on the stock market!

  78. 101

    Larry the Urbanite spews:

    Wow, again the level of discourse is exceptionally low again. Let’s bring it back up:

    I believe comparing eco and animal rights terrorism to abortion clinic terrorism is a logical fallacy of “incomplete comparison”. Here’s why:

    -Animal rights activists generally stage demonstrtations, throws paint on people wearing fur coats, get naked (“I’d rather go naked than wear fur!”) etc. At worst they let animals out of cages.

    -Eco terrorists generally pour sugar in gas tanks of logging company vehicles, make trees unsuitable for cutting etc

    – Abotion clinic terroists have KILLED PEOPLE, COMMITED ARSON, THREATENED PEOPLE, ABUSED PEOPLE, INTIMIDATED PEOPLE, etc.

    While my argument above has a few holes (some ecoterroists may commit arson, for example), my rebuttal isthis: Name one ecoterroist or animal rights activist (or group) that has killed anyone? Without looking it up on some obscure internet site of dubious veracity? I thought not. Abortion terroists on the other hand have had nation wide manhunts for killers, arsonists etc, that make the MSM headlines.

    So, which of these groups is a greater danger to the rule of law and public safety? The proscecution rests.

  79. 102

    Larry the Urbanite spews:

    Oh, and I’d like to propose a corollary to Goodwin’s Law (the one that says anyone who uses comparisons to Hitler or Nazis to bolster an argument automatically loses). Namely:

    Any reference to Ann Coulter in a supposedly rational discussion requires all participants to immediately shower. Additonally, said reference should be immediately discounted or ignored as Ann Coulter is a skanky bitch who needs to unclench a little.

    Hey Goldy, I got an idea for a Initiative!

  80. 103

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @7

    “ann coulter was JOKING”

    The twit is YOU, ghost. Coulter has a 1st Amendment right to say what she wants, but I qually have the right to take her at her word. Therefore, if she shows up at my burrow to arrest me for being a liberal, I will exercise the full panoply of my legal self-defense rights.

  81. 104

    Larry the Urbanite spews:

    Um she wasn’t joking. Afterwards, she was unapologetic, claiming the remark was a “huge hit with the audience”.

  82. 105

    yearight spews:

    Larry the Urbanite-100 ‘Abortion terroists on the other hand have had nation wide manhunts for killers, arsonists etc, that make the MSM headlines.’

    You blew it. The facade for today was supposed to be that the anti-abortion wackos are not taken seriously. You should probably get your comments edited by Goldy before posting.

  83. 106

    Larry the Urbanite spews:

    By the way, most of my yearly charitable donations go to Planned Parenthood. While I strongly believe in both environmental and animal rights activities, reproductive rights is the one issue that always gets me to pony up the green. I suggest that Goldy’s story is a wake up call for all like minded thinkers, and illustrates the need for more public and private funding. So, all you latte liberals out there, get out your checkbooks and give it up! Walk the walk, don’t just talk the talk.

  84. 107

    Donnageddon spews:

    ProudAss “U.S. Markets Hit 4 1/2 Year Highs”

    Yeah and think that Bush has been the Pres for 5 years!!!

    You want a booming economy? Never vote for a Republican.

  85. 108

    Donnageddon spews:

    You know why it is so great to be a liberal progressive?

    A: The facts are on your side, and the chicks are prettier.

  86. 109

    JDB spews:

    You know why it is so great to be a conservative wingnut?

    A: You can ignore the facts and staying in your bedroom all day at your computer means you can avoid all those scary chicks.

  87. 110

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    The facts are on your side, and the chicks are prettier.
    -Comment by Donnageddon— 12/1/05 @ 4:38 pm
    these women are prettier than these!

    Don’t you have a job???

  88. 113

    Donnageddon spews:

    ProudAss, maybe if you did not advertize Vi a gra in every post you make, they would not be filtered.

  89. 114

    Mom spews:

    Every problem in society is a direct result of liberal thinking.
    Coulter is right and she is hot.

  90. 115

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Rog@85 sez:
    ““what will the terrorists target next”
    A car bomb parked outside the Montlake Ale House on a Tuesday evening?
    Comment by Roger Rabbit— 12/1/05 @ 3:12 pm”

    Ummmmmmm…..no one in their RIGHT mind would want that to happen. The more you LEFTIST PINHEADS talk, the better as far as I’m concerned. I’d be heart-broken if anything nasty ever happened to any of you CLOWNS. The other problem I see with your theory Rog is that the CLOWNS are so irrelevant it would be a vast waste of fireworks!!!

  91. 117

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Oh this will certainly help her campaign!

    Abortion Doctor Says Hillary Clinton Was His Patient

    NEW YORK, December 1, 2005 – Abortionist William F. Harrison was profiled in the LA Times yesterday, as a 70-year-old doctor who is proud to have “terminated at least 20,000 pregnancies” since he began performing abortions in 1973. What the LA Times did not report is that Harrison, claims to have had New York Senator Hillary Clinton as his patient right around the time he commenced the procedure.

    Harrison wrote a book review for Amazon.com on Bill Clinton’s book “My Life”. In that July 24, 2004 review, unearthed by Covenant News blog, Harrison states, “I am almost 69 years old, and have been a student of all of the presidents of my lifetime, starting with FDR and going to GWB. I have known Bill and Hillary Clinton personally since they both moved to Fayetteville to teach at the University of Arkansas Law School in the early 70s. I met Hillary first as her physician and she soon introduced me to her then boyfriend, Bill.” (see the full review by Harrison here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/m.....oding=UTF8 )

    An Amazon.com profile of their book reviewer William Harrison, confirms that it is the same abortionist profiled by the Times. (see the Amazon profile here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/p.....73-2953606 )

    For comment, LifeSiteNews.com attempted to contact Nina Blackwell, Senator Clinton’s spokesman in her New York office; however Blackwell did not return the call by press time. An incoming call log at LifeSiteNews.com offices indicates that someone from Senator Clinton’s office did call back. However, when the phone was answered the male caller acted as if he had dialed a wrong number and hung up.

    The LA Times write-up on Harrison and his long-term friendship with the Clinton’s may help to explain the die-hard abortion activism of the Clintons. The Times reports that Harrison “warns every patient he sees that abortion may be illegal one day . . . He wants to stir them to activism.”

    Harrison self-identifies as an “abortionist” and says, “I am destroying life,” but feels his patients are “born again” after he aborts their children. “When you end what the woman considers a disastrous pregnancy, she has literally been given her life back,” he told the Times.

    However, unlike the Clintons who support even late-term or partial-birth abortions, Harrison will not perform them and considers such procedures, infanticide. “I just don’t think it should be done,” Harrison told the Times.

    See the full LA Times profile on ‘abortionist’ Harrison:
    http://www.latimes.com/news/na.....full.story

  92. 120

    Richard Pope spews:

    There are other reasons why abortion clinics deserve to have VERY HIGH insurance rates. This is because abortion clinics have a VERY HIGH TORT LIABILITY RISK, due to greedily neglecting to comply with relevant laws concerning reporting of child sexual abuse.

    http://tapes.yeson73.net/

    In California, an undercover woman pretended to be a 13 year old girl impregnated by a 22 year old man. This is statutory rape, and California law (just like Washington law) mandates medical providers and similar people to report such child sexual abuse to Child Protective Services.

    This supposed 13 year old wanted to have an abortion, and wanted to make sure that the clinic would not tell her parents about it or report her adult boyfriend to the authorities. All of these telephone conversations were secretly tape recorded.

    NINETY THREE abortion clinics agreed to perform the abortion of this supposed 13 year old girl without reporting the criminal sexual abuse by the supposed adult boyfriend.

    ABORTION CLINICS ARE A VERY HIGH TORT LIABILITY RISK WHEN THEY ARE WILLING TO VIOLATE STATE LAWS MANDATING THE REPORTING OF CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE.

    Did anybody read about the recent $4.2 million verdict against the Mormon Church in King County Superior Court for failing to report child sexual abuse?

    A 14 year old girl went to the clergyman in charge of her Mormon congregation and told him that her stepfather was sexually abusing her. The clergyman did not report this abuse to the authorities, and the stepfather continued to sexually abuse her and later sexually abuse her younger sister.

    Keep in mind that this sexual abuse was committed by the girl’s stepfather, not by any Mormon clergy taking advantage of their church position. And also keep in mind that the presiding clergy in the Mormon church are laypersons who work as volunteers without compensation.

    To be fair, the Mormon Church disputes the claim that the clergyman was told about the child sexual abuse by the 14 year old girl. Regardless of who was correct, the church lost because the jury believed the plaintiff.

    Similarly, an abortion clinic could lose seven or eight figures or more in a similar case. The 13 year old girl might actually tell the clinic nothing. But she (or other family members) could sue years later, and claim they had told them about the child sexual abuse.

    Given the undercover work and the 93 tapes documenting this, a jury would be much more likely to believe the girl than they would the abortion clinic. The tort liability risk for an abortion clinic is extreme, even if they do everything possible to comply with child sexual abuse reporting laws.

    The potential tort liability for abortion clinics failing to report child sexual abuse is much higher. A lot of teenage girls seek abortion and most do not wish to report their abusers. And abortion clinics are greedy profit making business who don’t want to turn away paying customers of any sort.

    And the tort liability potential for abortion clinics for failure to report child sexual abuse in other states could be far higher. Washington does not allow punitive damages and the $4.2 million award was solely for compensatory damages.

    California, like most other states, allows for punitive damages. And a jury would be especially inclined to award a eight or nine figure sum in a real child sexual abuse case against any of the 93 abortion clinics who told the undercover investigator that they were willing to break the reporting law.

    I think the main reasons why abortion clinics have such incredibly high insurance rates is the liability risk of suffering seven, eight or nine figure verdicts for failure to report child sexual abuse. Certainly the property insurance risk is higher, but it is a lot cheaper for an insurance company to pay six figures to replace a torched building than to pay eight figures for punitive damages in a failure to report case.

  93. 121

    Richard Pope spews:

    WOW — MY POST WAS EATEN BY THE SPAM FILTER! That’s what I get for being politically incorrect. Well, I will post just the introductory portion.

    There are other reasons why abortion clinics deserve to have VERY HIGH insurance rates. This is because abortion clinics have a VERY HIGH TORT LIABILITY RISK, due to greedily neglecting to comply with relevant laws concerning mandatory reporting of child sexual abuse.

    http://tapes.yeson73.net/

  94. 122

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    i have a couple held in the beer beggars cheap ASS filter… watch for ‘em donniegetsNone… you’re mentioned.

  95. 123

    Donnageddon spews:

    “watch for ‘em donniegetsNone… you’re mentioned.”

    I am flattered!

  96. 124

    Richard Pope spews:

    In California, an undercover woman pretended to be a 13 year old girl impregnated by a 22 year old man. This is statutory rape, and California law (just like Washington law) mandates medical providers and similar people to report such child sexual abuse to Child Protective Services.

    This supposed 13 year old wanted to have an abortion, and wanted to make sure that the clinic would not tell her parents about it or report her adult boyfriend to the authorities. All of these telephone conversations were secretly tape recorded.

    NINETY THREE abortion clinics agreed to perform the abortion of this supposed 13 year old girl without reporting the criminal sexual abuse by the supposed adult boyfriend.

    ABORTION CLINICS ARE A VERY HIGH TORT LIABILITY RISK WHEN THEY ARE WILLING TO VIOLATE STATE LAWS MANDATING THE REPORTING OF CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE.

  97. 125

    Richard Pope spews:

    Let’s see
    abortion abortion abortion ABORTION Abortion
    abortion abortion abortion ABORTION Abortion
    abortion abortion abortion ABORTION Abortion
    Will it filter this how? I secretly hope so :)

  98. 128

    marks spews:

    Mom @112

    Every problem in society is a direct result of liberal thinking.
    Coulter is right and she is hot.

    While I do not entirely agree with point one, point two.two is a trademark of mine, and you are in violation…

  99. 132

    Donnageddon spews:

    I think you are finbally correct .. J O B does catch the filter.

    I can understand that. The economy is so behind in replacing J O B s that any one who has been, or is un emplo yed is a victim of scam artists. I have been there.

  100. 133

    Proud to be an Ass spews:

    what are jobs? i am a liberal, so i have taken a self imposed vow not to hold one.

  101. 134

    Proud to be an Ass spews:

    Does this have something to do with Jobs Daughters? Oops, part of the Freemason conspiracy!

  102. 135

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    By the way, most of my yearly charitable donations go to Planned Parenthood. While I strongly believe in both environmental and animal rights activities, reproductive rights is the one issue that always gets me to pony up the green. I suggest that Goldy’s story is a wake up call for all like minded thinkers, and illustrates the need for more public and private funding. So, all you latte liberals out there, get out your checkbooks and give it up! Walk the walk, don’t just talk the talk. -Comment by Larry the Urbanite— 12/1/05 @ 4:31 pm

    So let’s get this straight…

    There are an AVERAGE of 3,700 abortions performed in the USA every single day at an AVERAGE of $500/murder… that’s $1,850,000 earned every day killing babies.

    Let’s use a conservative number and say Planned Death performs 55% of those baby killings. Thats $1,017,500 they are earning every day

    Assuming they only murder babies on week days and take weekends off from the drudgery of skull vacuuming that’s 261 days a year that they are earning an average of $1,017,500 per day for a grand (mighty grand, I might add) total of $265,567,500 per year!

    And you think they need donations??

    Sucker.

  103. 137

    christmasghost spews:

    roger@102…and thank you for illustrating what i have long suspected. A. a sense of humor is only present in people that are intelligent, and B. liberals never have a sense of humor.
    you do the math.
    and i thought all of you libs were against BIG CORPORATIONS???? what do you think planned parenthood is? they are planning on the fact that you will be lazy and irresponsible. they don’t ever want to fix that………..

  104. 138

    Donnageddon spews:

    The only “ABORTION INDUSTRY” is filled by bombers and murderers of people.

    Fetuses not need apply.

  105. 140

    Dr. E spews:

    128

    “A. a sense of humor is only present in people that are intelligent, and B. liberals never have a sense of humor.”

    These are:
    A. generalizations, and;
    B. a hallmark of illogical reasoning.

  106. 141

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    DonniegetsNone – do you understand how woefully ignorant you sound?

    When was the last time a pregnant woman claimed “Oh my gosh, the FETUS just kicked!” or “This FETUS just kept me up all last night!”

    So lets get this straight, when a woman is happy about being pregnant, she’s having a baby, but when she wants to kill her inconvenience, she’s having a fetus.

    Right.

  107. 142

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    “We had our first sonogram of our little FETUS today… donniegetsNone is so excited…IT looks like a perfect little horses ASS!”

  108. 143

    Donnageddon spews:

    You must be a very proudAss! Congrats.

    But I need to cut this short. I have a hot date with a very cool progressive woman.. She is like chocolate in a double burner!

    See ya later!

  109. 145

    christmasghost spews:

    Another TJ@136….don’t be sad reading these threads my friend. be AMUSED…..and remember that goldy has a wild imagination except when it comes to making up new names.

  110. 146

    jaybo spews:

    Goldy I wish you a long and happy blogging career.

    I think lefties like you should be able to spout off to your heart’s content.

    That way the average everyday american has a chance to see you as you really are.

    By the way, trying to take one of Ann Coulter’s sarcastic comments and try to spin them as factual is humorous.

    Goldy, why don’t you be the first liberal blogger to condemn all bloggers and posters that wish harm to our current president. That way you won’t appear to be a hypocrite

  111. 147

    headless lucy spews:

    re 74: prr: Ypur mind is like massive headwound Harry’s. Don’t get near any golden retrievers. Truly, you’re mind is a pathetic train wreck.

  112. 149

    headless lucy spews:

    re 92: “The Heritage of Genocide and Free Trade Society”,,,,,…………..My BULLSHIT METER just went off the chart.

  113. 150

    headless lucy spews:

    Ann Coulter has an Adam’s Apple and is a skinny, stinky BJ artist— by her? own admission.

  114. 151

    Dr. E spews:

    jaybo @ 147

    “By the way, trying to take one of Ann Coulter’s sarcastic comments and try to spin them as factual is humorous.”

    “We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors.” – Ann Coulter, at the Conservative Political Action Conference, 02-26-02

    Sorry, jaybo, sarcasm or not, that’s fascist rhetoric.
    (You do know what fascism is, right?)

  115. 153

    yearight spews:

    Dr. E-152 ‘Sorry, jaybo, sarcasm or not, that’s fascist rhetoric.’

    What is facist about executing a traitor that tries to kill our soldiers in a war?

  116. 154

    Dr. E spews:

    jaybo

    If you read my post, it says “fascist rhetoric”. What makes her rhetoric fascist is what comes after “We should execute people like John Walker,” which is “in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too.”

    So, the idea of execution people committing treasonous behavior is not fascist in and of itself, but the suggestion that such executions should take place to physically intimidate a group of people is fascist rhetoric.

    Personally, I wouldn’t normally even give Coulter’s intellectually lazy and logically weak arguments the light of day, but the fact that her coulumn is so widely distributed (and, unfortunately, read) that makes her dangerous.

  117. 155

    sgmmac spews:

    @153
    John Walker is the Terrorist and a enemy combatant in a foreign county shooting at his fellow Americans. Unfortunately, the US soldiers missed their target and he lived. The perfect solution for ending all torture is to take no prisoners.

  118. 156

    Puddybud spews:

    How about those “terrorists” that recently torched some construction site equipment on a home building site! It was on the morning news. Were they the Ann Coulter “terrorist” type or the ELF, ALF “terrorist” type? Rupert Wabbet you know the truth. Is this another of you many lies here on ASSes, Ann Coulter is a terrorist? I submit they are the ALF, ELF type!

  119. 157

    JCH spews:

    Ann Coulter is a terrorist.

    Comment by Roger Rabbit — 12/2/05 @ 12:37 am [I think Ann could probably kick your ass. Regardless. she dates men, not sissy “girlie men” boys like you!!

  120. 158

    sgmmac spews:

    In Singapore, they cane people who destroy property. Steal something in Saudi, they chop off your hand. Be born female in Sudan, strong chances are they will cut off your clitoris and sew your vagina shut at the ripe ole age of 6 or 7 years. And in American we provide better medical care to our prisoner than we do the poor and the homeless. Only in America can you get organ transplants sitting prison on death row. Only in America will states provide male breast reduction so that the poor little prisoner doesn’t suffer psychological damage.

  121. 160

    Daddy Love spews:

    I am guessing that a defense of Ann Coulter’s statements that claims “she is joking” intends to assert that she really does not mean what she says. Yet, when questioned specifically about these statements, Ann has never disavowed them, and in fact defends them publicly. I think that this ivalidates that defense. Sorry wingnuts, but she really means it. And she says so. Don’t bother with “she’s only joking” again.

  122. 161

    Daddy Love spews:

    ASS

    Fetus/baby…whatever.

    It’s none of your business what a womand and her physician choose.

  123. 162

    Daddy Love spews:

    Puddybud
    Environmental terorists exist. They are just not the danger to society that anti-abortion activists are, in the sense that they do not MURDER. I would think that would be reasonably clear.

  124. 163

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    It’s none of your business what a womand and her physician choose. -Comment by Daddy Love— 12/2/05 @ 12:17 pm

    You’re right…. as long as you admit that all pregnancies terminate… the question is does it terminate with a LIVE BABY or a DEAD BABY.

    In an abortion, it’s the BABY that gets terminated.

  125. 165

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Make you admit that you proborts are nothing more than advocates for murder.

    That the preferred method of you proborts ti do that is changing the language to make murdering babies in the womb more palatable and “accepted”.

  126. 168

    Daddy Love spews:

    Zygote: A single cell formed by the union of a male sex cell (a sperm) and a female sex cell (an ovum). Not a “baby.”

    Embryo: The organism in the early stages of growth and differentiation from fertilization to, in humans, the beginning of the third month of pregnancy. Not a “baby.”

  127. 169

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    You’re right, murder is illegal. The one legitimate function of government is the protection of innocent human life. And abortion is currently government sanctioned murder.

    Laws are specifically intended to protect innocent human beings from having immoral decisions inflicted upon them. Do you seriously think laws have the power to prevent someone from being their own moral agent? There are laws against murder, but that doesn’t seem to prevent killers from being their own moral agents instead. When a woman today has an abortion she is doing something legal but no less immoral.

    But now who’s playing the semantics game? Ask Laci Petersons murdering husband – he was found GUILTY of murdering both Laci and her UNBORN BABY… and the impetus behind Connors law.

    Do a bit of research – see how many states have killing an unborn in the womb laws on the books.

  128. 170

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    “Zygote”, “embryo”, “fetus” all describe STAGES of HUMAN development based solely on location. When it moves from inside the womb to outside the womb it will be instantly called an “infant” or a “newborn” despite the biological fact that it is virtually unchanged from when it was inside the womb.

    If you want to whine “devolopment” I suggest you remember all humans develop for their entire lives… an infant develops into a toddler who develops into a child who develops into an adolescent who develops into a a young adult who develops into an adult who develops into an elderly adult

  129. 171

    Daddy Love spews:

    I know–it’s part of the Right’s slow work trying to provide a framework of legal support for a Supreme Court decision banning abortion.

    It stems from Harry Blackmun’s conclusion in Roe v Wade that “In short, the unborn have never been recognized in the law as persons in the whole sense.”

    That still will not do anything about the FACT that, as Blackmun observed, the uses of “person” in the U.S. Constituion have “application only postnatally. None indicates, with any assurance, that it has any possible pre-natal application.”

    Look, under Roe, state legislatures have the right to intervene in the second and third trimesters of pregnancy to protect the woman and the “potential” life of the unborn child. No conflict.

  130. 172

    Daddy Love spews:

    You’ll find I’m not much of a “whiner,” ASS.

    But a zygote is not a person. You can’t claim it as a dependent on your income tax, for example. There’s a line somewhere, and we’re all interested in where.

    A woman’s right to decide for herself to bring or not bring a pregnancy to term is guaranteed under the Fourteenth Amendment. You are interested in forcing these women to give birth. It just ain’t gonna happen. Not a woman, are you? I thought not. Ask one.

  131. 173

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    The Supreme Court has a very long tradition of discovering one of its prior decisions is wrong:
    Dred Scott in 1857 rulled there was a Constitutional right to own slaves.

    There was a time when the Supreme court prevented women from voting.

    There was a time when the Supreme court viewed women as property of their husband.

    There was a time when the Supreme court described methods and reasons men could use to beat their wives.

    Should we have accepted those as settled issues?

  132. 174

    Daddy Love spews:

    CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll. Nov. 11-13, 2005. N=1,006 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3. reveals that 82% of Americans think that abortions should be legal under any circumstances or legal under certain circumstances. And 61% oppose “a constitutional amendment to ban abortion in all circumstances, except when necessary to save the life of the mother.”

    That’s why it’s not going to happen.

  133. 175

    Daddy Love spews:

    Ummm, there WAS a constitutional right to own slaves. That’s why we passed the Thirteenth Amendment. Sheesh. You want me to respect you, don’t you? Don’t say stupid stuff.

  134. 176

    Daddy Love spews:

    I’m getting a little filtered here. Two posts will be along later–one dealing with “development” and one with that Consitutional right to own slaves that DID exist until the Thirteenth amendment was passed.

  135. 180

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    So what?

    In 1850 there was no consensus for making slavery illegal.

    There was certainly no consensus for letting women vote.
    At one time there was a consensus that the earth was flat.

    And if you are going to say consensus should drive abortion policy that becomes one more reason to overturn Roe v Wade.

    In 1973 there was absolutely no consensus for legalizing abortion on demand.

  136. 181

    Daddy Love spews:

    I am saying that public opinion is considered both by politicians and the Courts. It is important. And considered overwhlemingly so by women. It differs substantially from the issue of slavery, and it is consistent with the direction of teh Court mentioned in your last three examples. I just don’t see it going away. And when the GOP is drven back out of the Presidency and the Congressional majority, your last hope is probably gone.

  137. 182

    Daddy Love spews:

    Sorry—last three examples =

    There was a time when the Supreme court prevented women from voting.

    There was a time when the Supreme court viewed women as property of their husband.

    There was a time when the Supreme court described methods and reasons men could use to beat their wives.

  138. 183

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Nice try.

    Science is on our side.

    Sonagrams…. with pictures AND video to take home.
    In Utero surgery.
    Survival of younger and younger preterm babies.
    Abortion – breast cancer link
    Abortion – infertility link
    Abortion – suicide link… just released TODAY.

    Women’s Suicide Rates Higher After Abortion, New Study Shows
    December 1, 2005

    A new study of women in Finland finds that those who have had abortions have higher rates of suicide than women who carry their pregnancies to term. The epidemiological study, published in the European Journal of Public Health, was conducted by Finland’s National Research and Development Center for Welfare and Health.

    The comprehensive three-year study of the entire population of women in Finland found that, compared to women who have not been pregnant in the prior year, deaths from suicide, accidents and homicide are 248% higher in the year following an abortion.

    The study also found that majority of the extra deaths among women who had abortions were due to suicide. The suicide rate among women who had abortions was six times higher than that of women who had given birth in the prior year and double that of women who had miscarriages.

    The researchers looked at data between 1987 and 2000 on all deaths among women of reproductive age (15 to 49).

    Dr. David Reardon, the director of the Elliot Institute and the lead author of a U.S. study showing similar results, said research like the Finland study is vital to showing how different pregnancy outcomes affect women.

    “In most cases, coroners simply have no way of knowing that the deceased recently had an abortion, which is why these new record linkage studies are so important,” he said.

    “Women seeking abortions should be informed that abortion is associated with significant physical and mental health risks, and it also deprives them of numerous physical and mental health benefits associated with childbirth.” Reardon said.

    “It is especially important for health care providers to be aware of these risks and the risk factors which identify those women who are at highest risk,” Dr. Reardon explained. “Providing women with the resources to help them resolve emotional issues relating to past abortions will not only increase their well-being but may possibly save their lives.”

    While the risk of death from suicide, accidents, and homicide was highest among women who had abortions within the prior year, the risk of death was lowest among women who gave birth within the prior year.

    Women giving birth had than half the death rate of women who had not been pregnant.

    The study also found that women who had experienced a miscarriage or ectopic pregnancy did not differ in their death rates compared with women who hadn’t been pregnant. That means having an abortion played a significantly adverse effect for women while a miscarriage didn’t.

    The new study confirms prior research results obtained in studies in both Finland and the United States.

    A 1997 government-funded study in Finland found that aborting women were 3.5 times more likely to die within the next year compared to women who gave birth.

    In addition, researchers examining death records linked to medical payments for birth and abortion for 173,000 California women found that aborting women were 62 percent more likely to die than delivering women over the eight year period examined.

  139. 185

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Re 181, thanks, I saw that one.

    And, while I have to go right now, I will check back here later.

    I appreciate the honest debate and the wonderful civility.

    Thanks.

  140. 186

    Daddy Love spews:

    Hmmm, so there’s something about women who have abortions that makes them slightly more prone to suicide. WOnder what it is? I don’t think we have established causation here, amigo.

    Women who get abortions are primarily young. 3.5 times more likely to die within the next year (I don’t know Fu=innish abortion policy) is still not a lot of chance of dying (although it sure sounds S-C-A-R-Y, which I’m sure is why you quote it), and probably compares to other invasive procedures.

    Those are all good reasons to make abortion safe and rare.

    Where do you stand on birth control?

  141. 187

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    One last thing:

    I am saying that public opinion is considered both by politicians and the Courts. It is important. And considered overwhlemingly so by women. It differs substantially from the issue of slavery, and it is consistent with the direction of teh Court mentioned in your last three examples. I just don’t see it going away. And when the GOP is drven back out of the Presidency and the Congressional majority, your last hope is probably gone. -Comment by Daddy Love— 12/2/05 @ 1:27 pm

    Yep, to keep their jobs it SHOULD be important to politicians.
    The courts, on the other hand should be APOLITICAL, influenced by NO OUTSIDE sources.

    And therein lies the problem…. activist judiciary.

  142. 188

    Daddy Love spews:

    Besides, if women who abort are taking on risks (which they arelady know) it’s still their business.

    Breast implants are risky too.

  143. 189

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    yikes I was filtered…. look for it after 182.

    Regarding ‘safe, legal and rare’… funny you should mention that… and yes, it is an OPINION piece…

    The pro-choice movement:
    Safe, legal, as often as possible
    Posted: December 1, 2005
    1:00 a.m. Eastern
    © 2005 Creators Syndicate, Inc.

    Dr. William F. Harrison of Arkansas calls himself an “abortionist.” “I am destroying life,” he proclaims. But Harrison, who estimates that he has aborted over 20,000 unborn children, also sees abortion as a life-giving procedure, describing his patients as “born again.” “When you end what the woman considers a disastrous pregnancy, she has literally been given her life back,” he proudly states. Harrison’s goal is to “try to make sure [a woman who chooses abortion] doesn’t ever feel guilty for what she feels she has to do.”

    Dr. George Tiller of Kansas has terminated over 60,000 pregnancies; his website brags that the good doctor’s clinic has “more experience in late abortion services over 24 weeks than anyone else currently practicing in the Western Hemisphere, Europe and Australia.” Most babies are considered viable (that is, can live outside the womb with the help of medical technology) at 23-24 weeks. These are viable, living children.

    Dr. Dennis Christensen of Wisconsin, who has aborted between 80,000 and 100,000 fetuses, celebrates his career as a moral good. “When I meet my maker,” he grins, “I think she’s going to say, ‘Way to go!'”

    Current liberal thought posits that abortion should be “safe, legal and rare” in the words of former president Bill Clinton. Only by stipulating that abortion should remain “rare” can liberal politicians escape popular outrage. Yet these same politicians refuse to answer just why abortion should remain rare. If abortion is a moral good under any circumstances (as abortion-on-demand advocates declare), why should it remain rare? And if keeping abortion rare is a rational goal, why should state governments be barred from taking steps to discourage abortion?Were abortion rare, women considering abortions would feel subtle societal pressure to preserve the life growing within them. Such societal pressure would create a “coercive” environment for women, inhibiting their ability to choose. For abortion to thrive, it must be common.

    With abortion statistics shockingly high (25 percent of pregnant women abort their babies, and one third of women will have an abortion by age 45), abortionists and their advocates can make women who abort feel accepted. At Dr. Harrison’s office, abortion statistics are posted on the exam-room mirror; a nurse rhetorically asks, “You think there’s room in hell for all those women?” Of course, no religion has ever considered a population cap on Divine punishment – surely, there is room in hell for whomever God chooses to place there. But the nurse’s point is simple: You are not alone.

    And the message works, as Harrison’s patient “Amanda” demonstrates. According to the Los Angeles Times, Amanda, a 20-year-old administrative assistant, says it’s not the obstacles that surprise her – it’s how normal and unashamed she feels as she prepares to end her first pregnancy. “‘It’s an everyday occurrence,'” she says as she waits for her 2:30 p.m. abortion. “‘It’s not like this is a rare thing … It’s not like it’s illegal. It’s not like I’m doing anything wrong.'”

    This is the pro-choice agenda. For pro-choice activists, abortion is a good in and of itself. It allows a woman to exercise her “freedom of choice” at any time. Context does not matter; moral gradation does not matter; timing does not matter. The high-school volleyball player who aborts her child because she does not want to ruin her body for nine months – “I realize just from the first three months how it changes everything” – is just as valid as the woman who aborts because her life is seriously endangered by pregnancy. Abortion must remain an absolute right, commonly exercised, if women are to be truly free.

    For years, pro-life advocates have described their opponents as pro-abortion. After viewing the pro-choice movement’s support for across-the-board abortions, that description seems apt.

  144. 190

    Daddy Love spews:

    Weight loss surgery is risky.

    Prostate surgery is risky.

    Scalp hair implants are risky.

    LASIK is risky.

    Should they be outlawed?

  145. 191

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    sorry I missed part of that article…

    The pro-choice movement:
    Safe, legal, as often as possible
    Posted: December 1, 2005
    1:00 a.m. Eastern
    © 2005 Creators Syndicate, Inc.

    Dr. William F. Harrison of Arkansas calls himself an “abortionist.” “I am destroying life,” he proclaims. But Harrison, who estimates that he has aborted over 20,000 unborn children, also sees abortion as a life-giving procedure, describing his patients as “born again.” “When you end what the woman considers a disastrous pregnancy, she has literally been given her life back,” he proudly states. Harrison’s goal is to “try to make sure [a woman who chooses abortion] doesn’t ever feel guilty for what she feels she has to do.”

    Dr. George Tiller of Kansas has terminated over 60,000 pregnancies; his website brags that the good doctor’s clinic has “more experience in late abortion services over 24 weeks than anyone else currently practicing in the Western Hemisphere, Europe and Australia.” Most babies are considered viable (that is, can live outside the womb with the help of medical technology) at 23-24 weeks. These are viable, living children.

    Dr. Dennis Christensen of Wisconsin, who has aborted between 80,000 and 100,000 fetuses, celebrates his career as a moral good. “When I meet my maker,” he grins, “I think she’s going to say, ‘Way to go!'”

    Current liberal thought posits that abortion should be “safe, legal and rare” in the words of former president Bill Clinton. Only by stipulating that abortion should remain “rare” can liberal politicians escape popular outrage. Yet these same politicians refuse to answer just why abortion should remain rare. If abortion is a moral good under any circumstances (as abortion-on-demand advocates declare), why should it remain rare? And if keeping abortion rare is a rational goal, why should state governments be barred from taking steps to discourage abortion?

    The fact is that mainstream pro-choice liberals are lying through their teeth when they mouth the “safe, legal and rare” mantra. Abortionists are celebrated as heroes, no matter what type of abortions they perform. The Los Angeles Times’ glowing profile of Dr. Harrison ends with a description of the doctor’s solemn determination to “keep at it as long as his stamina holds, or as long as it is legal.” The National Abortion Federation, dedicated to unfettered access to abortion, awarded Dr. Tiller its prestigious Christopher Tietze Humanitarian Award. Incredibly, New York Times Magazine describes the NAF as “a mini-AMA” (American Medical Association). Of course, the difference between the AMA and the NAF is as simple as the distinction between preserving life and destroying it, but to the pro-choice crowd, all medical procedures are equal.

    The pro-choice crowd has never wanted abortion to be rare. Were abortion rare, women considering abortions would feel subtle societal pressure to preserve the life growing within them. Such societal pressure would create a “coercive” environment for women, inhibiting their ability to choose. For abortion to thrive, it must be common.

    With abortion statistics shockingly high (25 percent of pregnant women abort their babies, and one third of women will have an abortion by age 45), abortionists and their advocates can make women who abort feel accepted. At Dr. Harrison’s office, abortion statistics are posted on the exam-room mirror; a nurse rhetorically asks, “You think there’s room in hell for all those women?” Of course, no religion has ever considered a population cap on Divine punishment – surely, there is room in hell for whomever God chooses to place there. But the nurse’s point is simple: You are not alone.

    And the message works, as Harrison’s patient “Amanda” demonstrates. According to the Los Angeles Times, Amanda, a 20-year-old administrative assistant, says it’s not the obstacles that surprise her – it’s how normal and unashamed she feels as she prepares to end her first pregnancy. “‘It’s an everyday occurrence,'” she says as she waits for her 2:30 p.m. abortion. “‘It’s not like this is a rare thing … It’s not like it’s illegal. It’s not like I’m doing anything wrong.'”

    This is the pro-choice agenda. For pro-choice activists, abortion is a good in and of itself. It allows a woman to exercise her “freedom of choice” at any time. Context does not matter; moral gradation does not matter; timing does not matter. The high-school volleyball player who aborts her child because she does not want to ruin her body for nine months – “I realize just from the first three months how it changes everything” – is just as valid as the woman who aborts because her life is seriously endangered by pregnancy. Abortion must remain an absolute right, commonly exercised, if women are to be truly free.

    For years, pro-life advocates have described their opponents as pro-abortion. After viewing the pro-choice movement’s support for across-the-board abortions, that description seems apt.

  146. 192

    Daddy Love spews:

    Sure, let’s reduce the incidence of abortion, but not the Republican way by making criminals of women and their doctors, but instead by increased education, readily available contraception, including Plan B “morning after” contraception, and increasing economic opportunity.

  147. 193

    Daddy Love spews:

    Reproductive privacy IS a right, and as such, a woman is FREE to exercise it for reasons either profound or trivial.

  148. 194

    yearight spews:

    Daddy Love-188 ‘Sure, let’s reduce the incidence of abortion..’

    Why? Why not promote it as a safe, effective and private method of birth control?

  149. 195

    yearight spews:

    Daddy Love-189 ‘..and as such, a woman is FREE to exercise it for reasons either profound or trivial.’

    Remember that if the unborn is not a person, then anyone can kill her as long as the mother is not harmed. Even the government.

  150. 196

    yearight spews:

    Daddy Love-178 ‘It differs substantially from the issue of slavery..’

    There is actually little or no difference. Slaves were not considered to be full persons under the law, and therefore not protected. Roe punted on whether or not the unborn can be considered a person, leaving it up to science in the future to determine. If the unborn children attain personhood in the future, a goal I hope for, killing one will have the same impact as killing an infant, toddler, teen or adult, as it should.

    SCOTUS did not err to the higher right, i.e. life, when deciding Roe. If, like the court said, they do not know if the unborn are persons the correct ruling would assume they were, in order to err to the higher right.

  151. 197

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Reproductive privacy IS a right, and as such, a woman is FREE to exercise it for reasons either profound or trivial. -Comment by Daddy Love— 12/2/05 @ 1:51 pm

    We have absolutly no interest in controlling womens reproductive lives. The biological fact of the matter is when a woman is pregnat REPRODUCTION HAS ALREADY OCCURED. If that were not so, there would be nothign for the abortionist to kill, no reason for millions of $ spent by the abortion lobby.

    When a woman is pregnant she has no choice but to “have the baby” the only choice is will she have a live baby or a dead baby.

    Let me ask you something.. are you married with children? Ask you wife, about the medical forms she fills out each nad every time she sees a new doctor. The pertinant questions are:
    “How many times have you been pregnant?”
    “How many pregnancies resulted in live birth?”
    Abortion does not erase a pregnancy, it does however erase a life.

  152. 198

    headless lucy spews:

    I worked in a small town in AZ near a large prison. The kids there were practically screwing each other in the streets and that area had the highest levels of unwanted pregnancies in the entire state. The school nurse at the junior highschool suggested that a class in preventing pregnancy be taught to the kids.

    Needless to say she was run out of town on a rail for trying to “debauch” the youth of that fair town. It’s things like this that prove conservatives are fools.

  153. 199

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    I see.

    So it makes more sense to teach kids to kill their mistakes, to condemn kids to a lifetime of guilt, increased incidence of cancer, infertility and depression.

    And, I suspect your were IN the Arizona prison as opposed to NEAR it.

    You didn’t steal your mandatory pink underwear did you?

    Did you register as a sex offender when you moved here wrestler diddler?

  154. 200

    Daddy Love spews:

    yearight @ 196
    if the unborn is not a person, then anyone can kill her as long as the mother is not harmed. Even the government.

    You are wrong, Buffalo Breath. That would be an illegal and unconscionable intrusion on the woman’s person and privacy. Not allowed by either the Fourth or Fourteenth amendments. Zygotes and embryos have no such protections.

  155. 201

    Daddy Love spews:

    yearight @ 197
    Roe punted on whether or not the unborn can be considered a person
    Wrong. SCOTUS ruld in Roe that the unborn prior to traditional notions of viability is not a person in law and as such was not to be accorded Constitutional protection, so that the state cannot restrict a woman’s right to an abortion during the first trimester.

    killing one will have the same impact as killing an infant, toddler, teen or adult, as it should.
    I beg to difffer with “as it should.” One: a blasocyst very different from a born person. This is recognized in the Roe and later Webster/i> and Casey. The problems in law are also daunting. A fetus is not and should not be considered to be an entity independent of or adversarial to the pregnant woman. Any proposed so-called “rights” for an embryo canot override a woman’s fundamental rights of privacy, bodily integrity, and self-determination. Until the child is brought forth from the woman’s body, any STATE interest in or relationship with the embryo must be mediated by the woman in whose body it resides. And THAT is the “higher right” for which the courts have decided.

  156. 202

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....nabort.xml

    And while your chewing on that young womans story, chew on this…

    “Believe in abortion? Unfortunately for you, the American founders wrote about an inalienable God given “right to life”, not any right to abort life for convenience sake, which has become the single largest affront on life, liberty and happiness in America today. Abortion = un-American.”

    “Why are pro-abortion people offended when someone calls them a baby killer, but not offended by the act of killing babies itself? I have never figured that out???“- JB Williams

  157. 203

    Daddy Love spews:

    ASS
    Not chewing at ll , thank you. But the Declaration of Independence as stirring a statement of pinciple as it is (though pretty certainly NOT talking about embryos) is not the controlling document here, the Constitution is. And according to the Constitution, “persons” are pretty certainly born ones and the rights to which a woman is entitled are clearly delineated. The State cannot abrogate her rights arbitrarily in favor of an embryonic nonperson. Get it? “Cannot.”

    Should a woman who self-aborts be charged with murder?
    Should a doctor who performs an abortion with the consent of the pregnant woman be charged with murder, the woman charged with conspiracy to cokmit murder-for-hire, and hospital staff charged as accessories?
    Should police forces (the State, IOW) police women’s pregnancies?
    Should you be able to obtain a standard deduction for your unborn children on your income taxes?

    This kind of Sta te interference in a woman’s private matters and private medical decisions is, again, an unconscionable intrusion under the Fourth and Fourtheenth amendments, your Declaration references notwithstanding.

    I am also favor widespread acsess to effective contraception, including to minors wihtout parental consent, the availability of Plan B contraception, the availability of RU-486, and despread sex education, family planning, and parenting education, for both minors and adults. id’d rather, in other words, see fewer unwnated pregnanacies. You do too, I imagine. Teen pregnancies have been dropping over the last decade or so. We should figure out why and pursue this.