Super Duper Tuesday less-than-super live blogging

I’m live blogging from the Montlake Ale House, and the big news here is that Elizabeth is back. And oh yeah, Obama is the projected winner in IL & GA, and Clinton is the predicted winner in AR, OK and TN. Meanwhile on the Republican side (as if anybody cares) McCain has scored early victories in NJ, IL, DE & CT, but Huckabee is doing well throughout the south, with victories in WV and AR, while Romney’s likely going to pick up quite a few more states than MA and UT.

Oops, food arrived.

UPDATE [6:22]:
Finished eating. It was the Buffalo chicken burger. It was okay. Also, Clinton has been declared the winner in NJ and MA, two states where the early exit polls predicted a slight Obama lead. Clinton as gets NY, as expected, while Obama picks up DE and KS (and probably AL, though nobody’s called it yet.) Of course, what really matters is the delegate count and its unclear how that is breaking down thus far.

UPDATE [6:30]:
I does look like those early exit polls everybody was posting (including me) are not holding up. Both Romney and Obama have lost states the exit polls suggested they might win, while Obama’s margin in GA is turning out to be much narrower. Oh… and the networks haven’t done it yet, but I’m calling ID for Obama.

UPDATE [6:47]:
I’m sitting on pins and needles waiting for the Utah polls to close. Or maybe that’s just my sciatica….

UPDATE [7:00]:
Romney wins Utah! (I told you so.)

UPDATE [7:03]:
MSNBC calls ND for Obama. And UT.

UPDATE [7:05]:
The graphics on MSNBC are making me dizzy.

UPDATE [7:55]:
It looks like Obama is going to win a majority of states, but then, we don’t elect presidents by the square mile. We’ll see what happens in CA, but right now it’s looking like Clinton will win the delegate race tonight, the only question is by how much, and how that will be represented in the press.

UPDATE [8:00]:
CA has closed; “too close to call” for both parties. Meanwhile, Obama has claimed MN and ID. Is it interesting that Romney and Obama are winning many of the same states?

UPDATE [9:21]:
Clinton wins CA. But Obama will end up winning 12, maybe 13 of the 22 states in play tonight, so he wins, since of course, we elect presidents by the square mile. (Or so Republicans wished.) Or at the very least, Obama is still very much alive in this race.

UPDATE [9:56]:
Crowd is thinning out at the Ale House. Early night. Anyway, Obama got AK and MO (just barely) giving him 13 states to Clinton’s 9… unclear how that influences the media narrative, and no clear idea about the actual delegate count, as many of Obama’s wins were in caucus states. In fact, Obama kicked ass in the caucus states… that tends to indicate either a strong ground game, or an activist movement. Considering he was up against Clinton, I’m guessing the latter.

Comments

  1. 1

    spews:

    Roger Rabbit says:

    Roger Rabbit is sick and can’t attend DL tonight. But don’t get your hopes up, wingnuts … I ain’t dead yet.

    but aren’t you ever there roger? EVER? are you in disguise? do you look just like goldy?

  2. 2

    spews:

    Christmasghost,
    You are FUCKED UP (i.e. you have no idea what you are babbling about). YES–Roger Rabbit shows up at DL occasionally. NO–he is not Goldy. You’re ill…seek some help.

  3. 3

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    I’ll say it again. I knew Roger before he was a Rock Star. Goldy, he ain’t. Rog was a judge. Goldy doesn’t even play a lawyer on the Ray-Dee-Oh.
    Get some help you sad sack of Rethugoican waste. . . .

  4. 5

    busdrivermike spews:

    Hillary is speaking now, declaring how proud she is of her voting record on the war…..just kidding. Boy, the estrogen is running so thick, there are spontaneous pregnancies happening all over the room. It seems that all the newborns will be girls, so they will not be illegal. And here comes Jack Nicholson, with his actress girlfriend and an intern for Bill. Always thinking of others, that Jack.

    Do I see…Barbara Streisand? No, it is Gloria Steinem, or as Hillary calls her, “girlfriend”. Finally, Hillary gives a shout out to the corporate board at WalMart, her alma mater.

  5. 6

    busdrivermike spews:

    Just a little taste of what the Republicans will throw out come September. Remember, everyone gets a corporate cookie with your Hillary Kool-Aid!

    OH-YEAH!!!

  6. 7

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    Well, Goldy, Mothers were made to be disappointed. . .just as they were created to spread guilt all around. . . . .

  7. 8

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Heard on the radio that John Mellencamp, a Democrat, ordered McCain to quit using his song.

  8. 9

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I used to actually like McCain a little bit before he turned into a wild-eyed warmonger.

  9. 10

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Elizabeth Kucinich is back? I didn’t know she left! Well, I’m sure glad she’s back!!! She’s one HOT chick!!! (drool)

  10. 12

    FricknFrack spews:

    @ 8. What was the song of Mellencamp’s that McCain was playing? Obviously I don’t follow McCain’s pep rallies. Tried to see for myself what song it might be, no WONDER he didn’t want his stuff used for a Repug (see below). Don’t they also have to follow copyright rules and seek permission beforehand to use a Song?

    from Wiki:
    “Throughout 2003 and early 2004, Mellencamp’s music was frequently heard at campaign rallies for then-presidential candidate John Edwards. The two most frequently heard songs were “Your Life Is Now” and “Small Town,” which was Edwards’ official campaign song. Mellencamp was also a contributor to Edwards’ campaign, contributing $2,000 to his effort in December 2003.”

  11. 13

    DustinJames spews:

    Holy Shit – 240,000+ votes for HRC in California? And it’s fucking holding (and expanding) everytime more results come in!

  12. 15

    YLB spews:

    Roger @ 9

    Someone a couple threads back pointed to an interview with Matt Welch, author of a book on McCain.

    http://www.horsesass.org/?p=4240#comment-738256

    You’re on dial up so you probably can’t watch it but the interview is transcripted – click through and read it. Very interesting.

    McCain’s natural inclination is to be a warmonger. It runs in his family. Foreign policy won’t change under him. In fact it could be worse. Domestically things could be very different and that’s really why wingnuts hate him.

  13. 16

    My Left Foot spews:

    Most know that I live in CA now. I voted for Obama.

    On the Republican side all of Romney’s ad attacked her and not McCain. I found that to be presumptuous and comical. This was a primary. Somebody should have told him.

    Hillary just declared winner in CA. Oh well.

  14. 18

    My Left Foot spews:

    16;

    Ads attacked Hillary.

    Troll,

    Obama’s speech writer is 26 years old. MSNBC just mentioned it. The man can deliver a speech.

  15. 19

    spews:

    @15,

    Wake up, kid, this NATION is a warmongering nation. We have over 750 of our military bases planted on foreign soil. What do you think they are for? “But not all the Presidents start wars like Bush did,” you predictably squeal. Maybe it wouldn’t be so easy to start wars if we didn’t have our garrisons encircling the globe. It’s part of a militaristic mindset, and we need to change it.

  16. 20

    busdrivermike spews:

    #17

    Your “Love” has voted for the war at every opportunity. It is easy to say you are against the war, but when you vote for a pro-war candidate, you are voting for the war.

    So, who voted for Maria Cantwell, war supporter? Or as everyone likes to rationalize it, the lesser of two evils?

    Voting for the war is becoming a habit for some of you so called anti-war Democrats.

  17. 21

    YLB spews:

    It’s part of a militaristic mindset, and we need to change it.

    No shit Sherlock!

    McCain’s father and grandfather were military brass. According to Welch, his family has fought in every American war except Gulf War I.

    McCain’s rep as a “straight-talker” and a “maverick” is totally a myth. He grew up in the beltway and the family dinnertable always had politicians and military brass as guests.

    He was a black sheep and kind of rebelled against the pressure to follow in his father’s footsteps but the impression endured.

    Remember when he was calling for MORE boots on the ground in Iraq last year? He’s a johnny one-note. He called for the SAME thing on the Kosovo action and he was totally wrong – it wasn’t needed at all.

    McCain would be yet another Republican disaster.

  18. 22

    spews:

    darryl@2…….sheesh.what’s wrong with you? isn’t your beer cold enough? can’t take a little needling? for the foul mouthed professor you sure have a short fuse.oh, wait, i guess that goes together doesn’t it?
    and i am quite healthy thank you very much….what’s your excuse?
    told you all california would be the hispanic fire wall against obama. that karmic payback [send your letters of thanks to loretta sanchez] is really a bitch…….quite literally this time. heh heh heh…….

  19. 23

    spews:

    YLB..don’t worry, you’ll love having mccain as president….he’ll be great.
    hm….maybe mccain/huckabee?
    hillary won’t stand a chance……weep now little fools. it won’t get easier. she still has to release those million plus documents………ah, let the games begin.

  20. 24

    Tlazolteotl spews:

    @4 I thought your parents wanted you to be a doctor? Or maybe that was your dad the psychiatrist? No wonder you were conflicted. ;-)

    It was very fun meeting you in person finally – and Lee, and Darryl, and N in Seattle! I guess we will have to try to make DL more often than just on election night and try to get there early enough so we don’t end up in the corner! Although that is a good place to people-watch from….

  21. 26

    YLB spews:

    Hillary won California? I remember when Gary Hart won California. He still couldn’t stop Walter Mondale.

    Calif. is a plum but not necessarily a lock on the nomination.

    I’m watching Hillary right now. She’s pretty upbeat. Gave one of her better speeches.

  22. 27

    proud leftist spews:

    Troll said: “’We are the one’s we’ve been waiting for.’ Great line by Obama.”

    I hate to agree with gutter sluts, but that line by Obama surely caught my ear. It was beautiful. Rhetoric counts. Obama wins by a landslide in that category, over everyone in either party.

  23. 29

    HRC For Pres spews:

    Go Hillary!
    She did say the troops will leave Iraq on January 20th so ease up on her. She trumps Obama on foreign policy, health care and intellect.
    Go Hillary!

  24. 30

    michael spews:

    @8, 12

    Not sure what it is about the Republicans and stealing Mellencamp songs. They’ve been getting the smack down for trying it since Regan in ’84.

    You’d think someone would have picked up that the guy that started Farm Aide and wouldn’t let Regan use one of his songs might be a Democrat.

  25. 31

    busdrivermike spews:

    #29

    Well if Hillary says she is against the war now that she is running for president, it must be true. After all, the Clintons never lie.

    If she votes for the war, over and over and over and over and over and over again, then she must be against the war because she says so.

    Suckers!

  26. 32

    busdrivermike spews:

    “She trumps Obama on foreign policy”

    I take it since she has voted with Bush on the war, then you must like Mr. Bush’s foreign policy?

  27. 33

    michael spews:

    God’s revenge for voting for Huckabee?

    Tornadoes Rip Through South, Killing 15
    The Associated Press – 56 minutes ago
    ATKINS, Ark. (AP) – Tornadoes across four Southern states tore through homes, ripped the roof off a shopping mall and blew apart warehouses in a rare spasm of violent winter weather that killed at least 15 people and injured dozens more.

  28. 35

    DustinJames spews:

    busdrivermike @ 20:

    Did you know since Obama landed in the senate – his vote on EVERY war bill has been the same as Hillary Clinton’s? He has the luxury of saying he didn’t vote for the war resolution – well of course he didn’t, he wasn’t in the Senate.

    Obama, in both his book and previous statements about the war, loves to talk out of both sides of his mouth:

    “So it’s not clear to me what differences we’ve had since I’ve been in the Senate. I think what people might point to is our different assessments of the war in Iraq, although I’m always careful to say that I was not in the Senate, so perhaps the reason I thought it was such a bad idea was that I didn’t have the benefit of U.S. intelligence. And, for those who did, it might have led to a different set of choices. So that might be something that sort of is obvious. But, again, we were in different circumstances at that time: I was running for the U.S. Senate, she had to take a vote, and casting votes is always a difficult test.” – Barack Obama [The New Yorker, 10/30/06]

    “Not only was the idea of an invasion increasingly popular, but on the merits I didn’t consider the case against war to be cut-and- dried.” – Barack Obama [“Audacity of Hope,” 2006, p. 294]

    And those aren’t the only double speaks from his lips. We can talk about the well previously-discussed single payer health care model that he was originally ‘for’ (see YouTube for that video). and then he was never ‘for’.

    Or how about his stance on guns? Obama was in Idaho and said he had “no intention of taking away folks’ guns.“. Well then how come in this questionnaire he said he “supported banning the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.”?

    Is he really ‘right’ on day one? I guess, only when his positions flip flop to whatever ‘right’ is today.

    Why do I continue to support her?

    Because when I watched Colin Powell presenting to the U.N. – when I listened to the evidence, I too was fooled. I believed the lies that were being presented as factual evidence. Knowing what we knew from the first Persian Gulf war, Saddam Hussein was a lunatic. A cruel dictator. A madman with a thirst for power. But I agreed with the first Bush’s strategy, and that was just to drive Hussein back to his Iraq borders, so we weren’t in a quagmire.

    But at the same time, I didn’t want to have Hussein with weapons that he could have used or funneled to attack us in our own country. And the faked, trumped up evidence that was presented to us as Amercians, on top of all the extra that was in that security brief, I don’t think I would have done anything different than what she did in the senate, and I too would have voted the same way if I was in that seat based off the evidence provided.

    Based off Obama’s own quotes, it sounds like he was wishy washy on it as well, and even he admits he’s not sure how he would have voted if he would have seen the classified security briefing that Hillary Clinton did.

    George Bush, in my opinion, (and put this on the calendar – I’m praising this idiot on this one action) did a masterful job on his ascent into Afghanistan and cleansing of the Taliban from power. That was obviously in the mind at the time of the authorization of force affirmitive vote.

    However, his lack of follow through on keeping the troops engaged and focused has allowed the resurgence that we’ve seen. This was all after that vote was done, and clearly, as she’s stated, she would have not only directed the troops in a different direction than how Bush did after the invasion, she also would have used them differently and made different decisions than Bush did (such as disbanding the iraqi military, banning the Baath party, etc) all of which she said were clear mistakes by Bush.

    I don’t need a president to be ‘right’ on day 1, I need a president who can be ready and knowledgeable on the issues on day 1. Barack is not that candidate to me. People criticize Hillary Clinton for not flip flopping on that vote, but I at least admire her for not doing the double speak that seems to flow from Barack’s mouth on any number of issues, including those that I listed above.

  29. 36

    spews:

    Hillary claims that she wasn’t fooled though. She claims that she didn’t need to read the NIE because she had already talked to all the people in the know. How she talked to people with classified intel is beyond me She claims her years of experience of being married make her ready to lead, and yet those same years of experience had her vote in favor of the AUMF against Iraq and that ridiculous resolution against Iran.

  30. 37

    busdrivermike spews:

    Dude, to sum up, you are one of The Clinton Machines useful idiots.

    You used so many mis-truths and obfuscations in that post you should be an honorary Clinton.

    Obama has not supported the Iraq war, never supported the Iraq war and continues to campaign against the Iraq war.

    When her vote counted, Hillary Clinton voted for the war, supports the Iraq War, and continues to defend her vote for the war. She claims that other people lied to her in big, bad old Washington, otherwise she would have voted the other way. Maybe her campaign song should be “Poor, Poor, Pitiful Me” by Linda Ronstadt.

    Hillary Clinton has done nothing in the US Senate except bring home the bacon to upstate NY, where the Republicans live. Since she used to be a Republican, I guess old habits are hard to break.

    If she wasn’t Bill Clinton’s wife, she would never have been elected to the Senate. She is Bill Richardson without the resume. Without Bill, she is Mike Gravel in a pantsuit.

    If she is so “knowledgeable”, how did she get scammed so easily by GW Bush?

    The best part of your post is where you actually wrote about how honest the Clinton’s are. Tell me, what color is the sky on your planet?

  31. 38

    busdrivermike spews:

    In California:

    Clinton leading Obama among women 57-39%

    53-37% among those 60 years or over (31% of voters).

    So, this years Democratic circular firing squad will be composed of old women. I guess that botox does seep into the brain over time.

  32. 39

    Richard Pope spews:

    Sometimes polls can be WAY off.

    Reuters/CSPAN/Zogby did a poll in California on February 3 and 4, the two days immediately before the Super Tuesday primary.

    On the Democratic side, the poll predicted Obama beating Clinton by 13 points, 49-36. The election returns, with just under half the precincts reporting, have Clinton winning by 14 points over Obama, 53-39.

    On the Republican side, the poll predicted Romney beating McCain by 7 points, 40-33. The election returns, with just under half the precincts reporting, have McCain winning by 14 points over Romney, 43-29.

  33. 42

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    “U.S. Acknowledges Use of Waterboarding

    “By LARA JAKES JORDAN,Associated Press

    “WASHINGTON (AP) – Senate Democrats demanded a criminal investigation into waterboarding by government interrogators Tuesday after the Bush administration acknowledged for the first time that the tactic was used on three terror suspects.

    “In congressional testimony Tuesday, CIA Director Michael Hayden … acknowledge[d] the agency used waterboarding on detainees following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. …

    Hayden said Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Abu Zubayda and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri were waterboarded in 2002 and 2003.

    ” … National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell told senators during the same hearing Tuesday that waterboarding remains in the CIA arsenal – so long as it as the specific consent of the president and legal approval of the attorney general.

    “That prompted Sen. Dick Durbin … to call on the Justice Department to open a criminal inquiry into whether past use of waterboarding violated any law. … Durbin, already frustrated with Attorney General Michael Mukasey’s refusal last week to define waterboarding a form of torture …, said he would block the nomination of the Justice Department’s No. 2 official if the criminal inquiry isn’t opened.”

    Quoted under fair use; for complete story and/or copyright info see http://news.aol.com/story/_a/u.....5409990097

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: Now we know they did it, who authorized it, and who approved it. It’s outrageous! I would have brought in an endodontist to question those guys. Pop off a filling or two, give ‘em a root canal without anesthetic, and they’ll be talking in no time. And they’ll end up with better teeth, too.

  34. 43

    G Davis spews:

    DustinJames @ 35

    Please…you sound just like your girl…

    HRC voted for the Iraq war authorization because of presidential powers, and said as much in her floor speech at the time and since then on several occassions. She and Bill did their level best to expand the powers of the office when in there…another reason to dub her Bush-lite. With them, it’s all about the office, all about the power.

    10/10/02
    “I want this President, or any future President, to be in the strongest possible position to lead our country in the United Nations or in war.”…”A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him – use these powers wisely and as a last resort.”
    http://clinton.senate.gov/spee.....01002.html

    “But the idea of giving our President authority to act in the global war against terrorism, if necessary in his opinion, against Saddam Hussein, was one I could support and I did so.”
    http://mediamatters.org/items/200705300003

    “And, finally, I think when you are asked by a president to give him authority to proceed in one manner with the ultimate decision to use force, granted, assuming the following steps would be taken, that doesn’t seem to me to be unreasonable. What happened here is that we gave authority to a president who in my view misused the authority.”
    http://mediamatters.org/items/200706100003

    Both of the above quotes taken from a February 9, 2004, interview with the Poughkeepsie Journal. I cannot find the original article so must rely on other sites to get quotes correctly.

    I think she believes her vote for the war was correct. She did not read the NIE, but was *fully briefed*, she says. Bill still has his security clearance, so I imagine the two of them cooked up reasoning…perhaps another case of unfinished business? Regardless, here’s where judgement comes in, as she truly believes the President should be allowed the benefit of the doubt that s/he has full authority as a leverage. It goes to Presidential powers rather than hawkishness necessarily.

    Again from that same Poughkeepsie Journal article via Media matters:

    Secondly, I think that the Congress was wrong to deny (President Clinton) authority with respect to Kosovo, and they did it for politically partisan reasons, and I don’t think that’s right. I don’t care whether the president’s Republican or Democratic. I think you have to take the president at his word, and this president said to us, “We believe there are weapons,” which many of us also believed, and “We are going to do everything we can to try to get inspectors in to determine how we can get to the bottom of the evidence that would show us what Saddam has and then finally to disarm him.” I found that a legitimate objective because we have been dealing with Saddam Hussein since 1991 in the Gulf War …
    http://mediamatters.org/items/200705300003

    This could be called not an unreasonable approach to governing. >b>That theory only holds true if anyone believes that many at the time thought Bush wasn’t hell bent on invading rather than using the authority as a tool in negotiation.

    So what were others thinking at the time and how did HRC react to that thinking?

    Time magazine did an Sept 8, 2002 issue on the pros and cons of invading. The content is very instructive about the mood of both the public and our elected ones.
    http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020916/

    There is plenty of other documentations that not everyone fell for…below are a couple of credible sources.
    http://www.slate.com/id/2071522/entry/2071561/
    http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39051
    http://www.fpif.org/papers/iraq2.html

    The below cached article is pretty damning concerning the Clinton adminstration knowing about the Bush inner circle wish to invade Iraq on principle. Interesting timeline included. Perhaps HRC based her vote on what Bill’s administration believed rather than current information. She did, afterall, not read the NIE report by her own admission and did cite her resentment over Congress not backing her husband on Kosovo. Is this as simple as another example of resolving some past issue of some family member actions/nonactions?
    http://209.85.173.104/search?q.....#038;gl=us

    There were 23 (21 Dems, 1 Rep, 1 Ind) who voted against the authorization. There were 29 Dems who voted for it. That should show thinking was indeed split even given the supposedly faulty information HRC and JE claim they relied on at the time.

    On October 11, 2002 the NY Times does a rundown on who voted for or against and some of their reasoning. Interesting reading with hindsight.
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f.....gewanted=1

    All the above said, the only thing that really matters is what is being said or done now. HRC has taken steps to amend her Iraq war vote by her more recent Senate actions. My question is, with her questionable judgement at the time, why is she trashing Obama on his supposedly naive stance against the war from the beginning? There’s plenty of evidence she was wrong at the time, others knew she was wrong, but she continues to slam another for doing what he could in his position at the time to stop the rush to an unjustified war with Iraq.

  35. 44

    Puddybud, A Prognosticator... spews:

    Richard Pope: No it’s not the polls. It’s called lying to the pollers and incorrect samples again.

    ChristmasGhost correctly prognosticated this one. The His panic over Obama firewall did show up and again, old white women are afraid of the black man…

    The blazing saddles stereotype will never die.

  36. 45

    DustinJames spews:

    busdrivermike @ 37 – I’m not an Iraq voter, so it doesn’t matter to me that “Obama has not supported the Iraq war, never supported the Iraq war and continues to campaign against the Iraq war.”

    And Obfuscations? How can I be obfuscating on quotes directly from Barack’s mouth or directly from his written statements? These quotes aren’t taken out of context.

    I’m an economy voter, and when I hear that Obama wants to raise taxes by approximately 1.3 trillion dollars that greatly affects the middle class, and that’s not including repealing the Bush tax cuts (which I’m in support of) – I cringe. Last year I paid TOO much in taxes. I have huge house payments and a shrinking job pool as the recession is just around the corner. And how is Barack Obama going to help me out? By wanting a 1.3 trillion dollar tax increase.

    Plus, I don’t like the fact that his health coverage bill does not cover 15 million Americans. 15 million. That’s what he calls “National” health care coverage?

    Not by my definition.

    This is the first time that I’ve ever gone to a caucus, and I’m driving a small metro van of supporters with me to the local precinct location. That she has increase her delegate tally after supposedly being affected by this ‘surge’ that’s happening shows me she has the momentum, and she’s electable, and she’s going to pull this one through.

    Don’t want a $1.3 trillion dollar tax increase?Vote Hillary ’08.

  37. 46

    michael spews:

    @34

    Conservative Christians have called Katrina and 9/11 Gods revenge on America, it’s OK for them to do that but not me?

  38. 47

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    I listened carefully to Obama’s speech last night.
    Like his whole campaign, nothing of substance…yet his “groupies” were ogling & bawling over NOTHINGNESS.

    Get everyone Health Insurance! How & at what cost?
    Against the War! What is his plan to fight terrorists?
    Negotiate with EVERYONE! Obama is soooooooooo naive.
    He will be gutting his military while these Fundamentalist Islamic Terrorists are having a field day with Homocide Bombing.

    Perhaps Obama is “clueless”??

  39. 48

    spews:

    puddy….thank you …”ChristmasGhost correctly prognosticated this one. The His panic over Obama firewall did show up and again, old white women are afraid of the black man…”
    i love the “his panic”….that’s good, that’s a keeper……..

    and michael@43……….they have? which ones? are you talking about that fruitbat phelps? he so doesn’t count, really.i am not a christian but even so i am pretty sure that anyone that made a comment like that wouldn’t be considered a christian much less a CONSERVATIVE one………i think anyone that made comments like that wouldn’t even have his human “bean” status yet…….

  40. 49

    michael spews:

    @45

    Pat Robertson has launched some dozes for starters. You’re living in LaLa land.
    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson

    “I’d like to say to the citizens of Dover, if there is a disaster in your area don’t turn to god; you just rejected him from your city” (referring to the town of Dover, Pennsylvania school board election of 11/2005 when eight anti-Intelligent design candidates were elected to all eight available seats, this following the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District court case.)

    * “We have allowed rampant secularism and occult, et cetera, to be broadcast on television. We have permitted somewhere in the neighborhood of 35 to 40 million unborn babies to be slaughtered in our society. We have a Court that has essentially stuck its finger in God’s eye and said, ‘We’re going to legislate you out of the schools, we’re going to take your Commandments from off the courthouse steps in various states, we’re not going to let little children read the Commandments of God, we’re not going to let the Bible be read — no prayer in our schools.’ We have insulted God at the highest levels of our government. And, then we say ‘why does this happen?’ Well, why its happening is that God Almighty is lifting His protection from us.” (in response to the 9/11 attacks)

  41. 50

    spews:

    michael….i don’t think anyone with a brain ever listens to that old fool, do you? aren’t those the far right nuts that are on one side of the NUTTY coin and the far left moonbats are on the other side?
    and now, geez, goldy has become a fan of buchanan……another NUT.
    i guess that politics [for dishonest creeps who just want to win] really does make for strange bedfellows, hmm?
    and although i do live in my home state of california,i do not live in LA., which is what i assume you were referring to by la la land.
    i also don’t think that you can compare normal people of faith to the loud mouthed nuts. why if we could paint everyone with such a broad brush think where that would go?
    i believe it’s generally called bigotry, racism, sexism etc.

  42. 51

    busdrivermike spews:

    #45

    Well, I guess for Hillary supporters like you, it all comes down to how much money she will bribe you with. You’re just a walking moral compass, sir.

    Funny though, how on post #35, you were defending her war vote, Mr. Economy Voter. Oh yeah, do you know her enforcement mechanism on her vaunted health care plan, which will never be allowed to become law? Wage Garnishment. Said it herself on “This Week”. How’s that for money in your pocket, Mr. Economy Voter? Yes, I think I would love to pay 10% more in taxes so people who do not work, or go to school, or people who fuck their life off can have health care. BTW, it would sure take some pressure off of Walmart’s health care costs. Funny coincidence, Hillary was on the Board of Walmart. But don’t worry, she isn’t beholden to corporate interests anymore, even though that is the bulk of her campaign contributors.