Sunday Night Open Thread

I have some family in town this weekend, so I haven’t had any time to blog, but something happened today while driving out to Snoqualmie Falls that just baffled me. We were driving south on I-5 past the 45th/50th St exit when an SDOT-type vehicle (the ones with the big flashing signs on top) got on the freeway and immediately started to swerve wildly across the four lanes of traffic back and forth. Somehow, the vehicle didn’t crash into anyone, but the cars on I-5 were all slowed to well below the speed limit. I quickly got over to the left lane and took 520 instead of 90 so I don’t know if there was anything ahead on the freeway. Does anyone know what the fuck was going on?

UPDATE: Response from SDOT here.

Comments

  1. 1

    Deathfrogg spews:

    He was slowing traffic down for some reason, thats how the State Troopers do it, standard procedure. They weave across all lanes, they were going to stop the whole shebang for some reason. They only do that in real emergencies though. Something serious was going on downstream.

  2. 3

    FricknFrack spews:

    Well, I guess the U.S. arguments re: health insurance reform have become comedy in Britain, some of this was rather witty IMO.

    MockTheWeekNHS
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QfKDkb0-1k

    “Mock The Week” takes on Republican lies about Britain’s National Health Service and Obama’s health care plan

  3. 6

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 1 is right, it’s designed to create a separation in traffic for some reason. I’ve seen it done by state troopers right before Bush was scheduled to leave a fundraiser in Bellevue, presumably it was to give him a wide open freeway down 405 (and I-90?) to Boeing field.

  4. 8

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    More from you friends at Rasmussen;

    Overall, 46% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President’s performance. That’s the lowest level of total approval yet measured for Obama. Fifty-three percent (53%) now disapprove. Eighty-one percent (81%) of Democrats approve while 83% of Republicans disapprove. As for those not affiliated with either major party, 66% disapprove

    Obama has clearly lost the Independents with his Borrow and Squander tactics of massive deficit spending and over-reaching Big Government.
    Once lost, they are very hard to bring back in.

  5. 10

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Cheney rips Obama..
    Obama is no leader…just a political hack who never stops campaigning and pandering.
    Obama is willing to risk the safety of Americans for his political whims!!

    By Bill Sammon

    FOXNews.com

    Sunday, August 30, 2009

    Calling it a “terrible decision” that undermines national security and devastates CIA morale, former Vice President Dick Cheney slammed the Obama administration’s probe of aggressive interrogation of terrorists. “It’s an outrageous political act that will do great damage, long-term, to our capacity to be able to have people take on difficult jobs, make difficult decisions, without having to worry about what the next administration is going to say,” Cheney told “FOX News Sunday” in a no-holds-barred interview.

    In blunt, unsparing language, Cheney accused President Obama of setting a “terrible precedent” by allowing an “intensely partisan, politicized look back at the prior administration.” He said the decision by Attorney General Eric Holder to launch a probe into alleged abuse of prisoners under the prior administration “offends the hell out of me,” as he seemed to question Obama’s fitness as commander-in-chief. “I have serious doubts about his policies,” Cheney told FOX News’ Chris Wallace in Jackson Hole, Wyo. “Serious doubts, especially, about the extent to which he understands and is prepared to do what needs to be done to defend the nation.”

  6. 12

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    SJ–
    Trying to minimize Rasmussen as merely a right-wing tool…do so at your own risk.
    Obama and Democrats don’t.
    Only fringe lunatic leftists do

  7. 13

    spews:

    Cynical @ 10,

    Wait…weren’t you chickenhawks screaming about how unpatriotic it is to criticize a president during times of war?

    In any case, Cheney is a liar and a war criminal. The U.S. is still a signatory to the CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. From Article 2:

    (1) Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.

    (2) No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.

    (3) An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.

    When is the U.S. going to fulfill its obligations and restore its sullied reputation by prosecuting those who committed tortured?

  8. 14

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @7 Klynikal Klown has just set a new standard at HA: Getting deleted from an Open Thread!!

    Waaaaytagooo goooatfuckerrr!!!

  9. 15

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Rep. Jay Inslee held a health care townhall in Edmonds yesterday, but there’s nary a mention of it in the Seattle Times this morning. It appears Seattle’s only remaining daily newspaper is truly a “daily,” i.e., doesn’t work on weekends.

  10. 16

    spews:

    @13
    Darryl,
    Let Cynical keep destroying the Republican Party. We have no real reason to stand in his way.

  11. 18

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Have you HA Libtardos been following that Phillip Garrido-Jaycee Lee Dugard story? Nope Puddy isn’t making a political comment. Puddy thinks after all these years of being on parole no one ever checked his full property as he is a serious sex offender. Doesn’t that status supercede certain so called “rights” he may have?

  12. 19

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Darryl vomits:

    In any case, Cheney is a liar and a war criminal.

    You KLOWNS should be applauding the CIA for efforts that kept us safe for 8 years post–9/11/01.
    Instead you continue to attack the CIA.
    Cheney is right…Obama is clueless about National Security and what it takes to get intelligence.
    Darryl===Terrorist loving flake!

  13. 20

    Rujax! spews:

    10. Mr. Cynical spews:

    Cheney rips Obama..
    Obama is no leader…just a political hack who never stops campaigning and pandering.
    Obama is willing to risk the safety of Americans for his political whims!!

    08/31/2009 at 7:42 am

    So there’s two psychotic sons-of-bitches here…cyniklown and his fuhrer darth cheney?

  14. 21

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    When we get hit again, Obama will be impeached!
    Remember, it was Biden who said Obama would be tested in 6 months.
    According to Biden, Obama is now on borrowed time as Afghanistand & Iraq turn to sh*t.
    North Korea uses Obama like a fool.

    If Panetta resigns, Obama will be history….all because Obama doesn’t want to lose the support of you LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWNS!
    Sad for our country.
    But folks are starting to wise up about Obamunism….it will stifle America with massive debt and make terrorists feel free to do what they do.

    Cheney is 100% correct and a great American for speaking up.
    The LEFTIST PINHEADS like Darryl fail to recognize THEY ARE IN CHARGE.
    All they can do is politck…not lead.

    Puddy, do you sense deep desperation in the posts of the loons?? They hate America so much, they are will to sacrifice security for some political stunt.
    Darryl, you are dumber than than you look.

  15. 23

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Cynical, the loonatics still think everything is a police action. If we get attacked per Biden, they’ll call the police because of the action.

    BTW reports have it Panetta is making a last ditch effort to stop the Holder activities. It won’t work and since Panetta is only in charge of intelligence evaluations and Holder is beholden to his leftist legal pals. Panetta will recognize the handwriting on the wall and he will see it similar to Daniel 5 for Obamunism.

  16. 24

    spews:

    Mr. Cynical @ 19,

    “You KLOWNS should be applauding the CIA for efforts that kept us safe for 8 years post–9/11/01.”

    As with, say, the police, I appreciate the security and protection from lawful conduct.

    Unfortunately, Liar-in-chief Cheney authorized and encouraged the CIA to conduct interrogations that were blatantly illegal and unconscionable. I want prosecutions from Bush/Cheney on down to the person conducting the torture, as we are required to do under our treaty obligations.

    “Instead you continue to attack the CIA.”

    I “attack” the CIA’s illegal activity, as should every patriot. BTW: If the CIA conducts torture under pressure from Obama, I’ll call for prosecution as well.

    “Darryl===Terrorist loving flake!”

    LOL! Mr. Cynical, you have nothing to fear but fear itself.

    In other words, you have become such a FUCKING COWARD that you now resort to condoning lawlessness.

  17. 25

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Obama ought to let Hillary do the moderating–
    http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....ahu-abbas/

    After all, Hillary showed such restraint when questioned be a little African about what her husband thought!! She went batsh*t!!
    I can see Hillary screaming at the Palestinian Leader what an idiot he is.

    This is nothing more than a meaningless show. Israel does not trust Obama at all….but feel obligated to show up or be made to look unwilling to compromise.

    Obama needs to do lots of sideshows to get folks attention off of Porkulous, Auto Bailouts, Cash for Clunkers, Health Care debacle and Iraq/Afghanistan turning to sh*t on OBAMA’s watch.

  18. 26

    spews:

    Mr. Cynical,

    Lee didn’t delete comment 7, I did. Read this for a detailed explanation.

    In short, you (1) posted an extended quote of another author’s work without any commentary whatsoever (2) You posted the same copied material in two different comment threads.

  19. 27

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Cynical how cum no leftist pinhead is calling for Rangel’s head as he’s admitting to lying for years…?

    Wait for it… spongebob wondermoron will call the article right-wing bullshit even though all the documentation is from Fed disclosure forms.

    Remember this fool is the head of Ways and Means. Don’t follow his ways and he definitely has the means.

  20. 28

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Darryl–
    “Lawlessness”??
    If your relative’s were blown to smithereens because the CIA didn’t push for valuable information, would you really stand up and say-
    “My family is dead…but at least we treated those terrorists who plotted to kill them lawfully”
    “It’s ok that the CIA got them a lawyer and took no for an answer when questioning”
    “I’m real proud of the Obama Administration!”

    When there is a hit Darryl, the Obamunism standard of TERRORIST DECENCY will come under question. Obama will try and sell us that the CIA over-reacted and Bush/Cheney are to blame.
    Baloney!
    Obama is set up to shoulder the entire blame…as he should. He is our Kommander-in-Chief…and the buck stops with OBAMA!

  21. 29

    Rujax! spews:

    Cheney is 100% correct and a great American for speaking up.
    The LEFTIST PINHEADS like Darryl fail to recognize THEY ARE IN CHARGE.
    All they can do is politck…not lead.

    Heil Cheney!

  22. 31

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Darryl–
    Seems like you monitor the folks who are always right waaaaaaaaaay more diligently than your vulgar, lunatic brethren.
    Hey, you KLOWNS are in power!!
    I thought you were into holding those in power to a higher standard?? NOT!

  23. 33

    Rujax! spews:

    31. Mr. Cynical spews:

    I thought you were into holding those in power to a higher standard??

    08/31/2009 at 10:19 am

    Yep…that’s why Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Gonzales are going to be punching out license plates.

  24. 34

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 1: By the way, I also know that tow truck drivers use a similar trick in order to change lanes. A friend of mine (who used to drive a tow truck) told me that people hate to have tow trucks in front of them, so turning on the turn signal seldom got them to back off far enough so the tow truck could change lanes. Instead, cars usually quickly moved forward to prevent the tow truck from getting in front of them, blocking the tow truck from being able to change lanes at all.

    Therefore, tow truck drivers who need to change lanes found that if they give a quick whip of the wheel back and forth, the towed vehicle behind them starts to fishtail back and forth across the lane. This usually scares the hell out of anyone following, and everyone hits their brakes to increase the distance between them and the towtruck – at which point the tow truck driver will change lanes, turning on his turn signal only as he is crossing the line into the next turn lane.

  25. 35

    Borked spews:

    There was a LOT of police activity in north Seattle last night just after 10 pm – complete with circling police airplane. Still can’t find any news about what was going on.

  26. 36

    worf spews:

    The trolls have convinced me. Force is the only weapon we have at our disposal. The Bush Doctrine is right. Therefore, since the American right wing now shows up to presidential events with weapons, and demands secession, it is imperative that we round up all right wing followers and summarily execute them for the safety of the nation. Of course, it will be necessary to torture them as well, so that they will divulge any information on presidential assassination plots, as well as the location of any weapons of mass destruction they may have.
    I know I will sleep much sounder knowing that the Bush Doctrine is in full effect.

  27. 37

    Rujax! spews:

    All they got now is Bible verses….

    WOW…I guess we lost boys. Time to go home.

    BIBLE VERSES…

    SHIT…I was hoping they NEVER use fucking BIBLE VERSES in a political argument. That’s just not fair.

    Bastards.

    Fucking hilarious.

  28. 38

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Hey Puddy–
    Mrs. C and I went to a Barn Dance on Saturday Night. You & the Mrs. would have loved it.
    It’s an annual fund-raiser our Church organizes. We had 430 people. No alcohol. No drugs. I never even saw anyone even light up a smoke.

    We had Beef & Pork BBQ…about 50 homemade pies.

    Then there was a silent auction followed by a live auction…then a 2-1/2 hour+ Dance with a great live band and no breaks. Contra-dancing…you name it. Probably 250-300 stayed for the dance which was upstairs in the barn. The floor was moving. All ages…1-90. Lots of teens and college kids with parents and grandparents.

    The setting was like something from a Redford Movie. As we drove up to this Ranch, there was a herd of over 100 Elk. Beautiful night.

    They usually have it the last Saturday in August.

    PS–
    Way better than a bunch of Lefty’s sprawled in a dungheap smokin’ pot and rambling incoherent phrases…kind of like here on HA!!

  29. 39

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    35. worf spews:

    The trolls have convinced me. Force is the only weapon we have at our disposal.

    Against Radical Islamic terrorists…you bet your ass! Right on worf. You finally got it.

  30. 40

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Puddy–
    I knew the Chief HA Atheist Rujax would be the first to condemn Daniel 5 WITHOUT EVEN READING IT!!

    C’mon Rujax, just give it a read and think about it. Your head won’t hurt too bad. It might help you out of your chronic despair and anger.

  31. 41

    DavidD spews:

    @10;

    The only reason Cheney is commenting at all is because he knows he broke the law and is trying to put up a smokescreen so he can’t be prosecuted without some idiot complaining that it’s partisan politics rather than US law.

    I expect FOX news to start up a weekly series where rapists, murderers and child molesters can complain about how deeply offensive it is that they are being investigated for their crimes.

  32. 42

    Montana Sheepfucker spews:

    See how Cynical cites scripture? That makes him holy! He and Puddy are here to witness to their faith! By their fruits you shall know them!

    Don’t YOU want Puddy and Cynical teaching Sunday School the way they try to teach you?

    After all, Pussy and Cynical are SO much better than you are, SO much holier! They will happily cite scripture to show that.

    God loves them more and shows THEM the TRUTH.

  33. 43

    spews:

    Mr. Cynical,

    “Seems like you monitor the folks who are always right waaaaaaaaaay more diligently than your vulgar, lunatic brethren.”

    Roger Rabbit may pipe up to disagree with you on that one…

    It is true that more Wingnut comments get deleted than lefty comments. I suspect that is because:

    (1) Some of you wingnuts are kind of stupid, and understanding the comment policy is very…ahem, challenging.

    (2) Some of you wingnuts lack a certain ability to construct a salient, independent comment, and then use quotations to support that comment. These are comment threads, not a wire feed. If you copy someone else’s stuff, make sure it is supporting your comment.

    (3) Some of you wingnuts believe that if you repeat a lie often enough in the comment thread of a liberal blog, it will somehow stick. As the policy states, “[d]eliberately repetitive comments” aren’t permitted. So, unless you are arguing that it’s Alzheimer’s….

    (4) More of you wingnuts seem to exhibit a serious inability to stay on topic in comment threads for fresh (non-open) blog posts. (A certain rodent has, at times, a similar focus “issue.”) Don’t waste your time…take it to an open thread.

    (5) More of you wingnuts seem intent on disrupting good on-topic conversations in (non-open) comment threads. Stuff that would stand in an open thread gets deleted. Of course, it wouldn’t serve any purpose there.

    I hope that explains it…

    One other thing….sockpuppetry is rare, but seems to afflict both sides. If you fake the name of another established commenter, the comment(s) will be deleted, and your subsequent comments will, for some time, be held until someone can verify that each comment is consistent with the comment policy.

  34. 44

    worf spews:

    Re. Daniel 5 – Got it. Nebuchadnezzar is Bush sr, and Belshazzar is Bush jr., but who is Darius?
    Barney Frank?

  35. 45

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Puddy sees the animal sex expert has reappeared@41. Puddy don’t teach Sunday school cuz Puddy don’t attend church on Sunday. That’s why you are a libtardo with 24 hour memory disease. You don’t remember anything since all that bestiality has your mind fried.

  36. 46

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    worf@43, wrong again as always…

    Chris Matthews called “the messiah” the last Kennedy brotha, therefore you figger it out fool!

  37. 47

    Rujax! spews:

    39. Mr. Cynical spews:

    C’mon Rujax, just give it a read and think about it. Your head won’t hurt too bad. It might help you out of your chronic despair and anger.

    08/31/2009 at 10:36 am

    No.

  38. 49

    Rujax! spews:

    Gotta LOOOOOVE those followers of the “Prince of Peace”:

    http://thinkprogress.org/2009/.....in-cancer/

    Arizona Pastor Steven Anderson has received national attention for dedicating an entire sermon to “Why I hate Barack Obama,” and for having a parishioner who brought an AR-15 to a protest outside a speech delivered by President Obama. Calling Obama a “socialist devil” and a “murderer,” Anderson declared, “I’m not gonna pray for his good. I’m going to pray that he dies and goes to hell.” A CNN analyst said last week Secret Service agents had likely visited Anderson because of the content of his sermons. In the face of all the controversy, Anderson decided not to apologize or retract his remarks, but rather, he escalated his rhetoric yesterday:

    “I hope that God strikes Obama with brain cancer so he can die like Ted Kennedy. You know, and I hope it happens today.”

  39. 51

    humbly awaiting moderation and deletion spews:

    At first they hurt, the whackings and the choke collar. But surprisingly soon I started to feel an anticipatory tingle of pleasure run up my leg when I heard the approaching clickety clack of Mistress Goldy’s stiletto heels outside my cell.

    And soon the midnight beatings from the lords of discipline, Darryl and Lee, took me past pain and into unsuspected pleasures almost unendurably prolonged. I learned to love the gimp gag, a deucedly clever device fashioned from duct tape and a rubber ball. Who but progressives, I thought, could so brilliantly confect a mechanism of such surpassing domination from so little? Who are we to stand against them? We have met our masters. We must give up and we must give in.

    At midnight, when they came and kicked me in the head and blinded me for a moment with the glare of truth and an AlGore mercury hazmat fluorescent bulb, I rolled over like a Pavlov dog, exposing my soft white belly and wagging my tail in submission.

  40. 53

    humbly awaiting moderation and deletion spews:

    Lord of Discipline Darryl is very wee wee’d up @ 42.

    No need to smear lipstick on the pig of “policy” that policy wonkette Goldstein barfed up when Goldstein was having a preemptive PMS panic attack. Goldstein’s policy was a non-Kosher pig then. It’s a pig now. And we all know what Roger does to pigs.

    No, Darryl, Goldstein’s “policy” is just you, Goldstein, and Lee power trippin’. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. It’s probably the only time in your pathetic lives, starting with when you got beat up by the normal kids at recess, that you and Goldstein and Lee have been given an opportunity (have invented a pretext) for getting even.

  41. 54

    humbly awaiting moderation and deletion spews:

    You talkin’ to me, sheepshit? Every real Montanan, especially the ones from Wyoming, know that the only thing lower than a Montana goat roper is a Montana sheep fucker.

  42. 55

    humbly awaiting moderation and deletion spews:

    blatantly illegal and unconscionable

    Bullshit. Big-word bullshit.

  43. 56

    Rujax! spews:

    54. humbly awaiting moderation and deletion spews:

    “blatantly illegal and unconscionable”

    Bullshit. Big-word bullshit.

    08/31/2009 at 11:45 am

    Clearly bigger than you can handle.

  44. 57

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    27. Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:
    Cynical how cum no leftist pinhead is calling for Rangel’s head as he’s admitting to lying for years…?

     
    Because they are well trained democrats and will look the other way when a democrat is doing something wrong.
     
    Or like lee said why there aren’t any posts about democrats doing wrong…

    Because this is a partisan blog that takes on Republicans. He would be disgusted by the Democrat and what he did, but he wouldn’t write about it here.
    http://horsesass.org/?p=5675#comment-847043

  45. 58

    Little Big Mouth spews:

    Dave Ross two hours ago and Mistress Darryl now seems to have discovered emanations and penumbras of terrorist-protecting rights in the Constitution. Bring them on. Love to see ‘em.

    We know that the progressive Constitution, unlike the real Constitution, is elastic as Silly Putty. That’s why Justice Douglas could strrrrrrrretch the Bill of Rights until he found “rights” unseen and unsuspected before Griswold and Roe.

    And now we have Ross and Darryl telling us that stateless out-of-uniform combatants held in Cuba were protected by Madison & Jefferson. And that getting terrorist combatants wet or saying mean things to them is illegal.

    So where was this living breathing elastic all-embracing Constitution when progressive Woodrow Wilson was deporting ditizens and when progressive Franklin Roosevlet was sending citizens to concentration camps?

  46. 60

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    What happened to gbs?
     
    After he brilliantly deduced I was Puddy, he seems to have gone the way of the dodo bird.
     
    95. GBS spews:
    Marvn Stamn is really just Puddybud everybody.
    No need to think otherwise any more. Must admit I had my suspcisons all along, but needed the proof.
    Now I have it.

    08/12/2009 AT 2:34 PM
    http://horsesass.org/?p=18861&.....ent-936884

      
    Maybe the proof was the goat kicking him in the head?

  47. 61

    Exlax! spews:

    Roosevlet = Roosevelt

    ditizens = citizens.

    But Rujax!, the smartest geek in the room, knew that already.

  48. 62

    George Bernard Shah'n'shah spews:

    Wondering about him too, Marvin. Haven’t seen or heard of him since I invited him to invite me to a Seattle Mist scrimmage.

  49. 64

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Gibbs the ultimate moron!!

    The White House on Monday fired back after former Vice President Dick Cheney called the Obama administration’s decision to open a probe into alleged CIA abuses an “outrageous political act.” White House Press Secretary Roberts Gibbs broadly dismissed Cheney’s comments on “FOX News Sunday” as typical and unfounded.

    “This is the same song and dance we’ve heard since literally the first day of our administration,” Gibbs said. “The vice president … clearly had his facts on a number of things wrong.” Gibbs did not call out Cheney on specific misstatements

    Gibbs spews that Cheney had his facts wrong…BUT FAILS TO GIVE A SINGLE SPECIFIC EXAMPLE!!

    Too Damn Funny!!
    This is why Obama is sinking like a rock.
    The Public is tired of Obama’s minions launching ad hominem attacks with ZERO specifics.
    ZERO Specifics got Obama elected…but it ain’t gonna fly as a leader.

  50. 66

    spews:

    Little BM@ 57,

    Dave Ross two hours ago and Mistress Darryl now seems to have discovered emanations and penumbras of terrorist-protecting rights in the Constitution. Bring them on. Love to see ‘em.

    Exhibit 1 comes from the U.S. Constitution, Article VI, Para. 2:

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land

    Exhibit 2 are excerpts from the CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment:

    Article 1, (1) For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity.

    Article 2

    (1) Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.

    (2) No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.

    Exhibit 3 is a summary from the U.S. State Department report to the Committee on Torture

    (3) The United States ratified the Convention against Torture in October 1994, and the Convention entered into force for the United States on 20 November 1994.

    (6) Torture is prohibited by law throughout the United States. It is categorically denounced
    as a matter of policy and as a tool of state authority. Every act constituting torture under the Convention constitutes a criminal offence under the law of the United States. No official of the Government, federal, state or local, civilian or military, is authorized to commit or to instruct anyone else to commit torture. Nor may any official condone or tolerate torture in any form. No exceptional circumstances may be invoked as a justification of torture. United States law contains no provision permitting otherwise prohibited acts of torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment to be employed on grounds of exigent circumstances (for example, during a “state of public emergency”) or on orders from a superior officer or public authority, and the protective mechanisms of an independent judiciary are not subject to suspension. The United States is committed to the full and effective implementation of its obligations under the Convention throughout its territory.

    (178) Throughout the United States, its territories and possessions, all acts constituting torture are criminal offences, punishable by appropriately severe penalties. Additionally, acts constituting attempts, “complicity”, “participation” and conspiracy to torture are likewise criminal offences. No single federal statute specifically defines or prohibits torture or directly implements the central provisions of the Convention. Nonetheless, at the time of ratification, it was determined that existing state and federal law was sufficient to implement article 4, except to reach torture occurring outside United States jurisdiction, as discussed below under article 5.

  51. 67

    Little BM spews:

    Nice try, for a change, but it won’t get past my attorney, the excellent Piper Scott St. Clair.

    The unresolved problem, as you surely know, is that stateless combatants out of uniform have no explicit rights in the treaties and conventions to which you tenuously link from Article VI.

  52. 68

    Cheney Uber Alles spews:

    Very clever.

    Air America tells us that the phrase “general welfare” in the Constitution was emplaced, c. 1787, for the promulgation of 2009 Obamacare.

    Lord of Discipline Darryl tells us that c. 1787 Article VI treaty obligations anticipated the extending of Constutional rights to illegal combatants and terrorists unprotected by treaty or by Geneva Conventions.

  53. 69

    spews:

    Little BM @ 66,

    “The unresolved problem, as you surely know, is that stateless combatants out of uniform have no explicit rights in the treaties and conventions to which you tenuously link from Article VI.”

    You are confusing two different issues.

    The issue about “rights for unlawful combatants” isn’t about torture. It is about treatment of prisoners of war, and their rights under the Third Geneva Convention, and whether Bush’s Presidential Military Order, “Detention, Treatment, and Trial of Certain Non-Citizens in the War Against Terrorism” was a violation of our treaty obligations and and a violation of the constitution. The tribunal part of this was ruled unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2006, but that is entirely irrelevant to the issue of torture we are discussing.

    As the Convention against torture that we ratified states, and our report to the UN makes clear, there are absolutely NO EXCEPTIONS to the prohibition on torture.

  54. 70

    spews:

    Little BM @ 67,

    Lord of Discipline Darryl tells us that c. 1787 Article VI treaty obligations anticipated the extending of Constutional rights to illegal combatants and terrorists unprotected by treaty or by Geneva Conventions.”

    Again…you are confusing issues of POW and unlawful combatant rights and treatment as spelled out in the Third Geneva Convention with an entirely different issue of the legality of torture.

    The torture convention has nothing to do with wartime, peacetime, domestic, foreign, citizen, or non-citizen. It is a blanket prohibition on torture under all circumstances.

  55. 71

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @18 And your point is what? That we should raise taxes to hire more parole officers and cops? I’m under the impression idiots like you are against that sort of thing.

  56. 72

    Cheney Uber Alles spews:

    My attorney and I understand nuance, Darryl. We know that President Obama seems as befuddled as President Bush about implementation of the 2006 Supreme Court decision that is not entirely irrelevant to the discussion of torture.

    Here’s why: The ACLU/Holder inchoate “definition” of torture, if allowed to stand, will be used to invalidate convictions based on evidence obtained under the alleged duress of alleged torture.

    Do you get it now? Why these issues are inseparable and mutually relevant?

    The Constitution means what seven old men in long black dresses and two old women tell us it means. The Court’s 2006 decision was not an assertion of Constitutional imperative. It was simply an assertion. Four or five old guys plus Ruth Buzzi Ginsberg followed their whims and made law.

    Torture apparently means what Holder and the ACLU want it to mean. They wield their elastic definition of torture like a bludgeon that they will use to beat up people who were trying to save America from 9/11 2.0. Their expansive shifting definition of torture will be used finally to protect Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

    Are you OK with that?

  57. 74

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @21 “When we get hit again, Obama will be impeached!”

    Just like Bush was impeached after 9/11, right?

  58. 75

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    18 & 21: Poodle and Klown are already popping stupid pills before 10 AM! This is gonna be a long day.

  59. 76

    Daddy Love spews:

    Yup. No torture of anyone, at any time, for any reason. And it’s the fucking law of the fucking land.

    Period.

  60. 77

    Daddy Love spews:

    We know that the progressive Constitution, unlike the real Constitution, is elastic as Silly Putty. That’s why Justice Douglas could strrrrrrrretch the Bill of Rights until he found “rights” unseen and unsuspected before Griswold and Roe.

    Ninth Amendment, bucko. “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

    We have a right to privacy. It was recognized 44 years ago by the Supreme Court. It may not be “denied” by the federal government.

  61. 78

    Little BM spews:

    Big Darryl: Trying to find a script of yesterday’s CBS Weekend Roundup via Dan Raviv. If the podcast is complete, it will demonstrate the complexity of the “torture” debate in a way that even you can understand.

    I don’t regard your ignorance of the issue as a personal failing. You are so immersed in the rattle and hum of the leftwing noise machine and the Seattle echo chamber that you are probably not aware that “torture” is either undefined or is not definitively defined.

    You have apparently ingested the Al-Gore dictum that the best way to stifle debate is to assert loudly that debate’s over. Your comments suggest that no further discussion or disagreement about torture or “torture” are possible because your definition of torture (apparently grafted from the ACLU and Holder) has been approved by acclamation.

  62. 79

    Little BM spews:

    Yup. No torture of anyone, at any time, for any reason. And it’s the fucking law of the fucking land.

    Period.

    Period. Sounds like you missed one, Dad. No wonder you’re fucking raving.

  63. 80

    Little BM spews:

    Daddy: My Kosher attorney, Roger Rabbi, has returned. Take up your Talmudic dialectic digression into the 9th Amendment with him, bucko.

  64. 82

    YLB spews:

    Hmmmmm. John McSlightlyDifferent said the torture at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere had recruited many young men to join al Qaeda…

    Nice to know that the HNMT supports aid and comfort to the enemy.

    We knew it all along.

  65. 83

    Daddy Love spews:

    78

    Hmmm…content-free. Issue-free. Completely ad hominem.

    It’s back to the kidde table for you.

  66. 84

    Daddy Love spews:

    What I liked was idiot-boy Dick Cheney saying that president Obama is the “chief law enforcement officer in the land.” Wrong. The president is not a law enforcement officer. The Attorney General is.

    That’s like saying the Mayor of Seattle is the chieff law enforcement officer in the city because he is the police chief’s boss.

    Or maybe it’s even more like saying that the vice-president is not part of the Executive Branch. This is just Cheney saying “I’m an idiot who should not be listened to.”

  67. 85

    rhp6033 spews:

    Breaking Local News:

    Boeing just announced that Scott Carson (age 63), the head of Boeing Commercial Airplanes Group (GCAG) , will retire at the end of the year. Jim Albaugh (age 59) will take his place.

    Despite the usual kind words being spoken about Scott Carson, it’s probably that his retirement was not entirely voluntary. He still had at least a couple more years to go before Boeing policy would have pushed him out, and he certainly would have wanted to see the 787 fly in order to finish his career. But there have been a number of financial analysts who have said that due to the 787 delays, there is time for a change in the top levels of Boeing management. It looks like the Boeing CEO and Chairman James McNerney is hoping that by getting rid of Scott Carson, he can avoid calls for his own resignation.

    Scott Carson, the out-going head of BCAG, previously held positions in finance within Boeing Defense, then led up Connexion by Boeing ( a program that has since been cancelled), and then sales, and finally head of BCAG. But he never had any manufacturing experience.

    Jim Albaugh, The new head of BCAG also comes from Boeing Integrated Defense Systems. He seems to have some scientific and management credentials, but if he’s ever had any experience in manufacturing or with commercial airplanes in general, I can’t find it in his resumes.

  68. 86

    Daddy Love spews:

    I love the “they kept us safe” line. Yeah, if you don’t count

    – the catastrophic event of 3000+ deaths in the 9/11 attack
    – the anthrax attacks against Americans
    terrorist attacks against U.S. allies (London, Madrid, Bali, …)
    – the terrorist attacks against U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan
    Bush’s inability to capture those responsible for 9/11,
    waging an unnecessary war that inspired more terrorists
    the success terrorists had in exploiting Bush’s international unpopularity

    …then the Bush/Cheney record on counter-terrorism was awesome.

    *edited to separate lines.

  69. 87

    YLB spews:

    Now here’s yet another ‘Murkan success story – one that inspires freedom lovers the world over to protest in the streets their socialized medicine in favor of our “freedom-loving” system:

    The young woman had recently graduated college and therefore had “aged out” of coverage on her parents’ health insurance. … So her friends and family recently sponsored a friggin’ car wash to raise funds to pay her hospital bills. Yes. A car wash.

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....he-Carwash

  70. 89

    spews:

    Little BM @ 71,

    “…the 2006 Supreme Court decision that is not entirely irrelevant to the discussion of torture.

    Here’s why: The ACLU/Holder inchoate “definition” of torture, if allowed to stand, will be used to invalidate convictions based on evidence obtained under the alleged duress of alleged torture.”

    You are correct that the issue of confessions extracted through torture IS relevant to the tribunals/trials of detainees. But what I said was that the issue of tribunals/trials isn’t relevant to the legality of torture.

    I made the claim that torture is illegal and that Cheney and others authorizing and engaging in torture should be prosecuted. You called my claim of illegality of torture “bullshit” and asked for evidence for the unconstitutionality of torture. I’ve provided that, and you have not provided any kind of coherent counter-argument.

    “Torture apparently means what Holder and the ACLU want it to mean.”

    No…torture is clearly defined in the Convention we are bound by.

    “They wield their elastic definition of torture like a bludgeon that they will use to beat up people who were trying to save America from 9/11 2.0.”

    Irrelevant. Saving America from 9/11 2.0 must fall within the law AND within the ethical principles of our country.

    By analogy, it would, arguably, be expedient and effective to teach anatomy to medical students by dissection of and practice surgeries on live prisoners.

    You might even argue that students so trained would be much better surgeons than their cadaver-trained peers.

    Yet, such training would violate our laws and principles embodied in the constitution, and would violate ethical principles (and principles we agreed to in our compacts with other nations).

    My “fear” of medical mistakes by my surgeon will never be so strong as to cower me into accepting this type of inhumane treatment of prisoners.

    Likewise, “fear” of terrorism doesn’t cower me into sacrificing my long-held principles about how to treat even the most vile of humans (let alone suspected vile persons).

  71. 92

    Rujax! spews:

    88. Darryl spews:

    Little BM @ 71

    08/31/2009 at 2:22 pm

    This idiot has the same amount of reading comprhension as colonelsandersfavoritechicken.

  72. 94

    Daddy Love spews:

    71 CUA

    The ACLU/Holder inchoate “definition” of torture

    There is no such thing. There is only the definition of torture in our federal law (US Code Title 18, Part I, Chapter 113C, Section 2340). The Attorney General will enforce the law and prosecute lawbreakers.

    What kind of idiot are you to think that the ACLU has anything to do with federal law enforcement? Are they a federal law enforcement agency? Are they a part of the United States Justice Department? You’re just begging us to disregard your silliness.

  73. 96

    spews:

    Little BM @ 77,

    “Trying to find a script of yesterday’s CBS Weekend Roundup via Dan Raviv. If the podcast is complete, it will demonstrate the complexity of the “torture” debate in a way that even you can understand.”

    There are numerous legitimate debates about torture like where the line is drawn, use of torture-acquired confessions in court, effectiveness of torture-acquired information, etc.

    But the argument I am making is that:

    (1) Humans in the custody of the U.S. were tortured.

    (2) Torture violates U.S. and international law.

    (3) Our treaty obligations mandate investigation of torture.

    (4) If torture is found, people should (and must) be prosecuted…all the way up the chain of command.

    “I don’t regard your ignorance of the issue as a personal failing. You are so immersed in the rattle and hum of the leftwing noise machine and the Seattle echo chamber that you are probably not aware that “torture” is either undefined or is not definitively defined.”

    So you claim. Yet, I have provided relevant excerpts from relevant U.S. and U.N. documents. You? Not so much.

    “Your comments suggest that no further discussion or disagreement about torture or “torture” are possible because your definition of torture (apparently grafted from the ACLU and Holder) has been approved by acclamation.”

    I’m afraid I’m unfamiliar with the ACLU or Holder definition of torture.

    So…let’s review.

    (1) You have offered nothing in response to my documented claims.

    (2) Rather, you mention in passing of a talk radio show and a CBS program.

    (3) You have tried to change the topic to one about prosecution of detainees (rather than the topic you challenged me on–prosecution of Cheney).

    (4) Now you imply that I am stifling debate because the definition of torture—that you misattribute to the ACLU and Holder—is too rigid for you.

    I’ll take all that as your tail-between-the-legs unofficial retraction of your comment at 54.

  74. 98

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Obama’s strategy is NOT working per McCrystal…Obama’s TOP DOG!
    Poor leadership by Obama.
    Obama not fit to be Commander-in-Chief.

  75. 99

    Back for another beating spews:

    Took a timeout to get my meds.

    You’re clearly dominant in this discussion, Darryl. Am left only with the weak reed of sophistry: All or nearly all depends on who draws the lines and makes the distinctions and definitions.

    Believe that you and the Attorney General and the ACLU will contend that torture is so clearly defined that a line was clearly crossed. Humans in the custody of the United States were tortured, you assert. But that is only an assertion. Go to yesterday’s discussion from CBS. Nothing here is clear.

    Will await further moderation and will wait for my Attorney Ad Litem, the excellent Piper, to get me out of my jam. Meanwhile, I’ll take The Fifth.

  76. 100

    spews:

    Mr. Cynical,

    Obama inherited a mess in Afghanistan thanks to the Chimpmeister. Chimpie took his eye off the ball and invaded a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Now we have had seven years of failure in Afghanistan without finding bin Laden, dismantling the Taliban, or securing the country. It has gotten worse by the year.

    And we have over 4,000 dead U.S. soldiers in Iraq, some 40,000 wounded, and almost 200 who committed suicide. $700 Billion spent…not one WMD found.

  77. 101

    Back for another beating, Part Deux spews:

    I called bullshit on the word blatant, your word, which implies that the ACLU/Holder/Darryl/UN definition or understanding of torture is so obviously obvious that debate is over.

    But Daddy’s citing of the Yoo Memo demonstrates that “torture” or the understanding of torture is as elastic as our understanding of the Constitution.

    Elasticity, as in Silly Putty, not demand curves: Why, two years ago, did some of you aver that the Geneva Conventions were utterly obvious? So clearly drawn and understood that no deviations of understanding (from yours) were possible?

    Why do you pretend now that ‘relevant excerpts from UN documents’ are so relevant and so clearly understood that no deviation from your own understanding is possible? (Aside from your wise observation about drawing lines and about determining the permissability of “torture”-induced evidence.)

    Why do those of you, who seem to have found absolutes in Geneva and the UN, revert to being flaccid relativists about the Constitution?

    We conservatives see nuance in the Constitution. Even strict constructionists know that anything and everything can depend on the placement of a comma in an amendment or article. So why can’t you permissivists permit the possibility that John Yoo was at least as right as the ACLU or the UN in drawing the lines of permitted conduct in our defense?

  78. 102

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Darryl–
    Blaming Bush for American Deaths in Afghanistan in August is ridiculous.
    This is OBAMA’S WAR.
    Obama did not provide adequate troops to please KLOWNS Like you.

    Afghanistan===OBAMA’S WAR!

  79. 103

    Rujax! spews:

    101. Mr. Cynical spews:

    Darryl–
    Blaming Bush for American Deaths in Afghanistan in August is ridiculous.
    This is OBAMA’S WAR.
    Obama did not provide adequate troops to please KLOWNS Like you.

    Afghanistan===OBAMA’S WAR!

    08/31/2009 at 4:11 pm

    Since fucking WHEN…you delusional fucking sonofabitch? No facts needed with the cyniklown…he just makes shit up as he goes along (like WHO “under-trooped” the Afghan war…BIG HINT-IT WASN’T OBAMA).

    Oh yeah…it’s the BYE-BULL…the BIBLE tells the cyniklown this clap-twaddle. Well fuck! The Flying Spaghetti Monster says the Bible is full of it.

  80. 104

    rhp6033 spews:

    Cynical, weren’t you among those who maintained in many different posts that Bush wasn’t responsible for 9/11, which occured eight months after he took office? Didn’t you (or your Republican friends) join those who asserted that Clinton had to bear the blame for those attacks, as they came to early in the Bush administration for him to be held responsible?

    And didn’t you support Bush in his war in Iraq, even though Bush and Rumsfield ignored and pushed aside quite a few high-ranking military leaders in the Pentagon who insisted that the forces levels available were inadequate to secure the country?

    And didn’t Obama contend throughout his campaign that one of the problems with the Iraq war was that it diverted available forces from Afganistan, allowing the Taliban to regroup and go back on the offensive in Afganistan?

    And wasn’t one of Obama’s first acts to significantly increase the force levels in Iraq? (My nephew was one of those, being re-routed from his planned traning program to go to somewhere around Jalalabad instead).

    So what in heaven’s name are you crying about in # 101?

    Oh, and if you thought that perhaps some people wouldn’t like the sky being blue on any given day, wouldn’t you claim that it’s all Obama’s fault?

  81. 106

    spews:

    Back @ 100

    “I called bullshit on the word blatant, your word, which implies that the ACLU/Holder/Darryl/UN definition or understanding of torture is so obviously obvious that debate is over.”

    The debate is over when the court of highest authority gives a verdict. Given that Cheney and others have confessed to authorizing waterboarding, we have very strong evidence that systematic torture was used. Waterboarding was, until 2006 when BushCo got caught, nearly universally recognized as torture. We prosecuted U.S. Soldiers who used it in Vietnam, a Texas Sheriff who used it on a prisoner, and a Japanese person after WWII.

    The universal recognition of waterboarding as torture doesn’t mean that Cheney would be convicted in either a U.S. court or, under the principle of universal jurisdiction, in The Hague. But under our treaty obligations the waterboarding confession is enough to require an investigation.

    What Holder is trying to do is something else. His investigation found evidence that some interrogators went beyond the limits that defined torture in DOJ memos. These are cases of rogue interrogators who almost certainly violated the law, even under the Bush administration interpretation.

    “But Daddy’s citing of the Yoo Memo demonstrates that “torture” or the understanding of torture is as elastic as our understanding of the Constitution.”

    The DOJ retracted the Yoo/Bybee memo as flawed during the Bush administration. But a third issue is what to do about the people who relied on Yoo’s advice and then committed torture. The courts need to decide this.

    “Why, two years ago, did some of you aver that the Geneva Conventions were utterly obvious? So clearly drawn and understood that no deviations of understanding (from yours) were possible?”

    Hardly relevant. But those folks had history and a subsequent Supreme Court decision on their side, didn’t they?

    “Why do you pretend now that ‘relevant excerpts from UN documents’ are so relevant and so clearly understood that no deviation from your own understanding is possible?”

    The Convention is relevant because it is a treaty that the U.S. is a signatory to. And because it specifies the principles that the U.S. has agreed to live by.

    “So why can’t you permissivists permit the possibility that John Yoo was at least as right as the ACLU or the UN in drawing the lines of permitted conduct in our defense?”

    Because even the Bush administration subsequently realized that Yoo was wrong after the memo was reviewed by other in-house lawyers.

  82. 107

    spews:

    Little BM,

    “This just in: “Torture” works.”

    It could be…and that would be completely and utterly irrelevant.

    Murdering your opponent is a great way to win an election, too….that doesn’t justify it.

  83. 108

    spews:

    Mr. Cynical @ 101,

    “Blaming Bush for American Deaths in Afghanistan in August is ridiculous.”

    It’s Obama’s war now because Bush couldn’t finish what he started for seven fucking years!!!! So it’s someone else’s problem.

    Bush was an utter failure in nearly everything he undertook.

    And you, Mr. Cynical, are perhaps the worlds most incompetent propagandist. Try to be more subtle about it, huh?

  84. 109

    Gman spews:

    Just another one of them murderous, raping, and thieving heterosexuals screwing up the world.

  85. 110

    Rujax! spews:

    This is good stuff, right here:

    http://thinkprogress.org/2009/.....s-predict/

    Today, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs responded to these accusations, wondering whether it’s really useful to listen to anything Cheney has to say on foreign policy:

    I’m not entirely sure that Dick Cheney’s predictions on foreign policy have borne a whole lot of fruit over the last eight years in a way that have been either positive or, to the best of my recollection, very correct.

  86. 111

    Rujax! spews:

    OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG!

    It’s the cyniklown’s wet dream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    From The Huffinton Post

    Cheney For President, Wall Street Journal Op-Ed Says

    Republicans would be wise to nominate someone with both toughness and experience. Under such circumstances, it’s hard to think of a better candidate–assuming, of course, that he could be persuaded to run–than Richard B. Cheney.

    OHMYFUCKINGGOD that is SOOOO COOOL!!!!!!!

  87. 112

    proud leftist spews:

    110
    That would be so cool. Apparently, the WSJ doesn’t recognize that experience isn’t worth a damn if it comes from hanging out with those who don’t know what’s happening, closing eyes to reality, and, generally, fucking up in a big way.

  88. 113

    Steve spews:

    @111 It strikes me that the gun-packin’, town hall screaming Republican base isn’t much interested in elections anymore. Something a little more sinister appears to be afoot with the handlers of these folk.

  89. 118

    Steve spews:

    @115 Eh, I figured it was Shockley you linked to. Walt Brattain’s son, Bill, was a friend of mine and a room mate back in college.

  90. 119

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    So Steve, Bill knew of his father’s friend and co-worker’s Eugenics views?

  91. 121

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Nope Pelletizer, my views are not wingnut views to my friends. Yours are left-wing whack-job screw-up views to them.

  92. 123

    Steve spews:

    @119 Such stuff was never discussed, Puddy. He played a mean game of chess and was a bit of a math wiz. There was some talk of bad blood between Shockley and everybody else on the Bell Labs team, including Bill’s father, but it was something to do with patents and with Shockley being a hugely paranoid asshole.

  93. 126

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Steve, Shockley was a paranoid asshole? Sounds like the progressives of today….

  94. 129

    YLB spews:

    125 – neener, neener – notice I didn’t include YOU fool in the goat staring crowd. I keep it ambiguous of course with the “fellow traveler” designation but let’s say for the moment you’re out of the goat starer running.

    You can be considered out because you’re in a category of your own. It turns my stomach to think of it but it’s pretty evident from the trash prose you drop here.

    One of these days I’ll do it justice.

  95. 130

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Hey KLOWNS–
    The ONLY reason Obama’s ratings haven’t totally collapsed is the Dow.
    Today it dropped 186 points.
    I told y’all to watch out for the Bear Trap sucker punch when the DOW hit 9500.
    Smart folks have been averaging OUT!