It virtually (in the neologistic sense of the word) sinks.
Washington State Department of Transportation has the videos:
Can’t Bring Yourself to Type the Word “Ass”?
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And so the $4.4 billion shakedown begins … what I want to know is, who’s getting the money? Because it sure as hell doesn’t cost $4.4 billion to build a bunch of concrete pontoons! Concrete is nothing but sand, gravel, cement, and rebar.
More to the point, how can I get in on the payola? Whose ass do I have to lovingly kiss? $$$$$$
What the fuck is the matter with the girlz?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....cs14m.html
Why the fuck do they think it’s OK to transfer cash from The Producers to wealthy players and owners?
IT’S A ZERO SUM GAME
http://www.thirdworldtraveler......_2006.html
Where Do Our Income Tax Dollars Go?
[2006 Taxes vs. Government Expenditures]
Friends Committee on National Legislation, Washington newsletter, March 2007
For each dollar of federal income tax we paid in 2006, the federal government spent about:
41 cents – for war and preparing for war (28cents), and obligations from past wars (13 cents), including veterans programs and interest on the military portion of the national debt
19 cents – for health programs, including Medicaid, which provides nursing home care for the elderly poor, and health care for the poor and disabled, and parts of Medicare, which subsidizes health care for older Americans
12 cents – to respond to poverty in the U.S. with food programs, housing assistance, income supports, and energy assistance.
10 cents – for interest on the non-military portion of the national debt
5 cents – to promote community and economic development, including agricultural programs, highways and mass transit, and federal communications commission
5 cents – for education, job training, employment, and social services
4 cents – to run the government, including law enforcement, homeland security, and benefits for government employees
3 cents – for science, energy, and environmental programs
1 cent – for humanitarian aid, diplomatic missions, and international cooperation
The marxists here are the looniest of the moonbat loons. How many of you agree with the girlz you voted for that sonics arena is a “smart public investment”?
Anybody????
Hey headlice…. are taxes like checkers?
re 3: Girls want to transfer wealth to people who work in an Asian sweat shop? MTR. Why would you say such a crazy thing?
And speaking of the wealth of nations, Adam Smith said : “All weath is created by labor.”
Think about what Adam Smith really said next time a conservative starts blathering about “the producers”.
“The Producers” work in an Asian sweat shop — and don’t forget it.
@3 Mark, the only female legislator that article identifies as voting FOR the Clay Bennett Welfare Relief Act is Pam Roach; and I do believe she is one of yours, not one of ours. Memo her about it.
Headlice economic theory. Fascinating stuff from HAs premier dumfuckingass.
…the oil industry is a zero sum game ( like checkers )
Commentby headless lucy— 4/9/06@ 2:56 pm
“Most wealthy people inherited their wealth and haven’t worked a day in their lives…”
Commentby headless lucy— 4/13/06@ 5:14 pm
I don’t care if some rich bitch pays a little more in taxes…
Commentby headless lucy— 10/24/06@ 7:37 pm
headless lucy says:
“…but I insist on having my fair share. If taxing it away from the wealthiest is the way to get it, then that’s where i’m goin’….”
01/01/2007 at 10:11 pm
Can any of you make any sense of this one?
Checkers and the oil industry are both zero sum games. The oil industry claims it is not a zero sum game – but it is. If a minister compares the legal problems of Tom DeLay to the persecution of Christ , that is an asinine comparison.
Commentby headless lucy— 10/29/06@ 7:28 pm
A few people seem to think I post too much. For example, early this morning I posted two dozen comments in the previous thread. I can’t help it; that’s how many important news stories there are today. It’s not my fault the White House replies to subpoenaes at midnight Friday in hopes nobody will notice how much incriminating evidence is in those documents!! What do you expect ME to do, make the news go away? Believe me, I would if I could, but I have no control over whether Paul Wolfowitz pads his girlfriend’s paycheck and performance reviews, and lies about it; or whether Gonzo’s lackeys lie to Congress about — well, about damn near everything. You’ll have to speak to someone else about that. I’m merely a messenger bunny. If you don’t like the news, don’t take it out on the reporter!!!
Full of shit as usual rabbit:
Ways and Means passed it:
Margarita Prentice – Chair (D)
Karen Fraser – Vice Chair, Capital Budget Chair (D)
Craig Pridemore – Vice Chair, Operating Budget (D)
Joseph Zarelli – Ranking Minority Member (R)
Dale Brandland (R)
Mike Carrell (R)
Darlene Fairley (D)
Brian Hatfield (D)
Mike Hewitt (R)
Steve Hobbs (D)
Jim Honeyford (R)
Karen Keiser (D)
Jeanne Kohl-Welles (D)
Eric Oemig (D)
Linda Evans Parlette (R)
Marilyn Rasmussen (D)
Debbie Regala (D)
Pam Roach (R)
Phil Rockefeller (D)
Mark Schoesler (R)
Rodney Tom (D)
12 of 20 are moonbats. Be interesting to know who voted how.
re 6: Yes. Taxes are like checkers and checkers are like macro economics, in that there is only a given amount of wealth in the world at any given point in time.
Similarly, there are only a given amount of checkers in a checkers game. If each side gets the same amount of checkers at the beginning of the game, then may the best player win.
But, if the winner of the first game then inherits the right to start the game with more checkers (inherited wealth or unfair access to global credit, then it is no longer a fair game.
Even an idiot like you,MTR, can see the aptness of the comparison.
Thanks for giving me this opportunity to explain this concept in detail, as it is not you that I am trying to convince.
When someone compares my intellect and power to reason with your sneering ignorance, well ….
re 6: It’s about percentages.
Roger Rabbit’s Plan To Eliminate Roger Rabbit
If you want to get rid of Roger Rabbit’s posts, get rid of bad news. Since all the bad news comes from Republicans — and there’s a lot of it — you’ll have to get rid of Republicans to eliminate bad news. So, it’s simple. Get rid of the Republicans, and you’ll get rid of Roger Rabbit!
What are you waiting for? Get cracking!!!
Thanks for the info. Roger. I’ve gleaned lots of valuable information from your posts.
MTR is the court jester who has so little talent that all he does is shit in his own pants — for shits and giggles, I guess.
Now Lookee Here:
MTR’s shit is NOT a zero sum game — as he seems to be able to drop more crap at the drop of a hat and leave the stain that is his brain.
@12 And 8 of 20 are Republicans. Is there some reason you didn’t mention that? Since Republicans hold only 35% of the seats in the state senate, but 40% of the votes came from Republicans, it’s clear which caucus is pushing this giveaway of taxpayer dollars the hardest! The Republicans are. Typical GOP welfare-for-the-rich legislation. Don’t complain to ME about it, Redneck!! Call your GOP senator.
P.S., pay your gambling debt, welsher! And while you have your checkbook out, how about sending another $99 to http://www.operation-helmet.org/ … it’s long past time you started supporting the troops, you unpatriotic wad of pond algae!
As I recall, some little boy has a gambling debt to pay.
I remember when said boy tried paying his gambling debt. He couldn’t figure out how to use a web payment site.
Now, apparently, the little boy can’t figure out how to put $100 into an envelope, address it to Goldy, put a stamp on it, and place it in a mailbox.
What an idiot!
@12 (continued) Adjusting for relative caucus size, Republicans supplied 114.2% of the votes for the Sonics Arena (8/.35 divided by 20 votes). If you subtract that figure from a baseline of 100.0%, it’s clear that less than 0 Democrats supported this ripoff! It’s nothing but another GOP welfare-for-the-rich scheme.
Headlice – I’d be fascinated to know how you got so far off track on your understanding of economics. I’m not gonna try to explain it because you’re too far gone and too fucking stoopid… but where do you get this stuff?
@12 “Be interesting to know who voted how”
Well, that’s not hard — just go to the leg’s home page and do a bill search.
Voting FOR: Prentice, Fraser, Pridemore, Brandland, Hatfield, Hobbs, Keiser, Oemig, Rasmussen, Roach, Rockefeller.
Voting AGAINST: Carrell, Fairley, Honeyford, Regala, Schoesler, Tom.
So, what it boils down to is 9 Democrats and 5 Republicans voted for it, and 3 Democrats and 3 Republicans voted against it.
Keep in mind the fact they vote it out of committee for a full Senate vote doesn’t necessarily mean they support it. It may only mean they support having a full Senate vote on it; and some who voted to move it out of committee may vote against it on the Senate floor. We’ll have to wait and see.
You can twist a procedural vote to mean anything you want it to mean; and some people do.
@21 Here’s some Economics 101 for YOU, Redneck: You owe Goldy $100. This bill is more than a year past due. PAY IT, DEADBEAT!!!
@21 (continued) And while you have your checkbook out, how about supporting the troops?
From the Wingnut Dictionary:
“War on Analogy – When conservatives pick apart an analogy by bringing in utterly irrelevant details. For example, if I write “Iraq is, in many ways, like Vietnam,” a graduate of the wingnut debating school will respond with “You’re wrong! Iraq is in the Middle East!” Or, if one points out to Andrew Sullivan the similarity between Jayson Blair and certain journalistic lapses under his own watch, he could respond with “They’re nothing alike! Jayson Blair is lefthanded!” I think Jay Caruso is current champion of this technique.”
This is the technique MTR is using when he mocks the “checkers” analogy to zero sum games and, more specifically, the false wingnut belief that cutting taxes on the rich is bad for the economy.
Time and again, when taxes on the rich are increased the rich hang on to their money a little tighter — for a while. Then things go back to normal.
I don’t know anybody who thinks this is a good idea. I think most of us here on HA agree this is a frivoulous waste of Producer money.
I don’t get it… why the fuck would Prentice, Fraser, Pridemore, Brandland, Hatfield, Hobbs, Keiser, Oemig, Rasmussen, Roach, and Rockefeller vote for this?
I gotta go see if the girlz put an “emergency” clause in the bill.
They girlz DO consider another fucking stadium an “emergency”.
NEW SECTION. Sec. 404. This act is necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health, or safety, or support of the state government and its existing public institutions, and takes effect immediately.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinf.....;year=2007
This is the technique MTR is using when he mocks the “checkers” analogy to zero sum games and, more specifically, the false wingnut belief that cutting taxes on the rich is bad for the economy. I MEANT RAISING TAXES.
Watch for this little mistake to resurface again and again in MTR’s wingnutworld commentary.
Keep ’em coming headlice. You’re really on a roll today.
LMAO…
SB 5986 – 2007-08
Concerning public facilities.
Sponsors: Senators Prentice(D), Delvin(R), Poulsen(D), Hobbs(D), Hatfield(D)
Companion Bill: HB 2264
4 of 5 Sponsors to steal money from The Producers to give to the sonics are fucking moonbats. Dunno WTF is wrong with Delvin; obviously a RINO.
headless lucy says:
From the Wingnut Dictionary:
“War on Analogy – When conservatives pick apart an analogy by bringing in utterly irrelevant details. For example, if I write “Iraq is, in many ways, like Vietnam,” a graduate of the wingnut debating school will respond with “You’re wrong! Iraq is in the Middle East!” Or, if one points out to Andrew Sullivan the similarity between Jayson Blair and certain journalistic lapses under his own watch, he could respond with “They’re nothing alike! Jayson Blair is lefthanded!” I think Jay Caruso is current champion of this technique.”
This is the technique MTR is using when he mocks the “checkers” analogy to zero sum games and, more specifically, the false wingnut belief that cutting taxes on the rich is bad for the economy.
Time and again, when taxes on the rich are increased the rich hang on to their money a little tighter — for a while. Then things go back to normal.
04/14/2007 at 11:11 am
headless lucy says:
This is the technique MTR is using when he mocks the “checkers” analogy to zero sum games and, more specifically, the false wingnut belief that cutting taxes on the rich is bad for the economy. I MEANT RAISING TAXES.
So this begs the question; what do you consider rich?
please give a number…..
On the “emergency” thing for the stadium… what fucking threat is there to peace, health or safety? Do they think all the dykes in seattle are gonna burn down capital hill if the storm leave town?
And is SAS isn’t a gummint institution.
I don’t understand how they get away with this.
Mr. Redneck, finding himself in the extremely unfamiliar territory of being in agreement with the majority on this blog, asks “I don’t get it… why the fuck would Prentice, Fraser, Pridemore, Brandland, Hatfield, Hobbs, Keiser, Oemig, Rasmussen, Roach, and Rockefeller vote for this?”
Good question. The answer is that Senator Prentice (D- Renton) is the Chair of the committee. Senator Prentice’s strong support for this is understandable. She was elected to represent the interests of her constituents, and I cannot condemn her for doing just that.
As for the others, well, you annoy the Chair of the Ways and Means Committee at your peril.
How many of these folks spoke to Ms. Prentice and agreed to let it go to the Senate floor, with the understanding that they would vote against it there? We’ll find that out later.
And we will be watching, very closely.
Barelli – Are you for or against gummint stealing money from The Producers to give to millionaires?
Barelli – Also… I question whether her “constituents” are solidly behind it. Why would they be? It’s not like only Renton residents will get hot dog vendor jobs.
Do you understand what the threat is to peace, health and safety that causes this massive wealth transfer to be an emergency?
And before somebody asks, I am also opposed to gummint stealing money from The Producers to give to NASCAR. And I’m a big NASCAR fan…
Back to the topic of the thread.
I note that the new 520 bridge is supposed to cost about six times what the replacement for the Hood Canal bridge cost.
Of course, the Hood Canal Bridge is somewhat more complicated, as it must have a mechanism for allowing the submarines from Naval Submarine Base Bangor to pass through. Last time I checked, there was no need to allow submarine traffic to pass through Lake Washington.
Still, the bridges are of roughly the same length, so to reduce the cost of providing six lanes of traffic across Lake Washington, I submit that we should simply build three “Hood Canal” style bridges, complete with draw spans. This would cut the overall cost roughly in half, and has the added advantage that the middle bridge could be used as reversible lanes to further assist in traffic flow.
Obviously there is some hidden cost savings somewhere in having those draw spans. ;-)
JB said
“Still, the bridges are of roughly the same length, so to reduce the cost of providing six lanes of traffic across Lake Washington, I submit that we should simply build three “Hood Canal” style bridges, complete with draw spans. This would cut the overall cost roughly in half, and has the added advantage that the middle bridge could be used as reversible lanes to further assist in traffic flow.
Obviously there is some hidden cost savings somewhere in having those draw spans. ;-)”
John, you raise another intersting question here. Yes, high cost indeed to have 6 lanes of traffic.
Another way to look at this is:
Total “new” capacity on the 520 bridge is 2 HOV lanes…..
Well in my opionion “LA DEE DA”
If we are going to truly work on moving traffic, this should be a 8 lane bridge with 3 GP lanes in each direction and 2 HOV lanes. The DOT simply needs to look about 2 miles S for an example of such a bridge…..
Sorry, Mr. Redneck. I thought that, just from the tone of my post, along with the many others I’ve done, it was pretty obvious that I’m opposed to what I consider to be a half billon dollar boondoggle.
Tax incentives can be either good or bad, depending on how they are used. When they either generate or retain sufficient revenue and/or jobs (which then generate revenue) I can support them, even if they go to rich folks.
Essentially, if a one-dollar tax incentive makes Bill Gates a buck richer, but generates ten dollars worth of new jobs and brings in two bucks in tax revenue, then it really doesn’t bother me that Mr. Gates got a bit richer in the transaction.
If that one-dollar tax incentive makes Mr. Gates richer, but only generates fifty cents worth of new jobs and a dime worth of tax revenue, then I’m opposed, and it angers me that Mr. Gates got richer off my taxes.
So, the answer to your question “Are you for or against gummint stealing money from The Producers to give to millionaires? ” (after ignoring the inflammatory rhetoric) is “it depends on the circumstances”.
Build the bridge you want, put a big toll on its use – problem solved!
That’s what we got it Pierce County. Why not King County as well?
Right Stuff:
Wow. The conservatives and the liberals are agreeing again. Ice skating is becoming a popular sport down there in Hell.
@30 Is that the same idiot who claimed that cutting taxes always increases revenue?
Let’s review:
2000 – $1,372,376,000,000 (baseline year)
2001 – $1,297,063,000,000
2002 – $1,152,413,000,000
2003 – $1,069,364,000,000
2004 – $1,146,664,000,000
2005 – $1,279,114,000,000 (estimate)
2006 – $1,346,019,000,000 (estimate)
(Data from official sources.)
Bush began cutting taxes in 2001, and revenues have been lower than in 2000 in EVERY year since then! And that’s before adjusting for inflation, which would make the revenue figures even smaller.
@33 Rich is an attitude, not just a bank balance. Rich means you believe in living off the labor of others, and freeloading off taxpayers. For example, Clay Bennett is rich; and not only because he has a lot of money, but because he believes taxpayers should give him even more money.
In fact, you can’t become rich without a freeloader mentality, because you sure as hell don’t get that kind of money by working for it.
Libertarian
I’d agree (with a big grin on my face) but for the overall cost. It’s so big that even with heavy tolls on both floating bridges, the state coffers will have to come up with a big chunk of the money.
And unlike the Tacoma Narrows Bridge which was, at worst, an annoyance, the 520 bridge is a vital link across Lake Washington, and is, apparently, failing.
But Roger’s point that a simple floating bridge should not cost many times what a major suspension bridge is costing makes a whole lot of sense.
Someone is looking to make a bundle off that bridge, and while I have no problem using tax dollars for vital infrastructure, I do insist on getting top value for those dollars.
@35 “Good question. The answer is that Senator Prentice (D- Renton) is the Chair of the committee. Senator Prentice’s strong support for this is understandable. She was elected to represent the interests of her constituents, and I cannot condemn her for doing just that.”
Prentice is trying to score points with her constituents by freeloading off King County taxpayers. Renton has less than 1% of the state’s population and only slightly over 2% of King County’s population, so Renton will get 100% of the stadium while people who don’t live in Renton will pay 98% of the taxes for it. That’s freeloading.
Yes, Prentice is a Democrat; but when have I ever said Democrats are always right? I’ve never said any such thing. The difference between us liberals and you wingnuts is we criticize the pols on our side when they’re wrong, and we admit our mistakes. You guys pretend you’re infallible. I’ll put it bluntly: Prentice is full of shit! You really can’t blame her for taking our money if we give it to her, though. If the rest of King County is stupid enough to fall for this, then we really have no one to blame but ourselves.
@36 I, for one, think it’s way past time to cut you off, Redneck.
@39 Good point, John; and one I didn’t think of. This obviously explains why two suspension bridges across Tacoma Narrows cost only 1/5th as much as one concrete pontoon bridge across Lake Washington. More lanes increase costs exponentially!! So, the solution obviously is to build a lot of one-lane bridges instead of one big bridge. Click here for photo of Roger Rabbit Engineering Corp.’s design proposal for the new 520 bridge: http://tinyurl.com/u
@42 Why the hell can’t anyone at WSDOT figure out that if you slap a $10 toll on the bridge, fewer cars will drive across it?
Roger (at 12:47 PM)
I think you said it better than I did, Roger. It wouldn’t bother me a whole lot if the legislature were to pass something putting it on the ballot in King County.
Although it would bother me somewhat. To some degree, all of the counties in Washington are drawing from the same pool of tax dollars. For King County to draw out a huge amount of those tax dollars for this boondoggle is somewhat like a person living on a lake, drawing out the water from “his part” of that lake.
All the other folks living along that lake will be effected.
You might want to check that link, Roger. I think only part of it was posted.
Roger Rabbit @ 22
I guess that means that 75% of the Democrats support this boondoggle, but only 62.5% of the Republicans. So Democrats have 120% as much enthusiasm (75%/62.5%) as the Republicans for this massive boondoggle.
Interesting that Sen. Eric Oemig (Moonbat-45th) is supporting this boondoggle too. Oemig grabbed a lot of publicity with a totally symbolic and largely meaningless resolution urging the impeachment of President Bush. But when matters really count and the state legislature actually has the power to act, Oemig supports giving away $500 million of taxpayer funds to some conservative Republicans from Oklahoma.
All this shows Democrats don’t have very much sense. It is understandable why many Republicans would support giving away largely Democrat King County tax dollars to their ideological soulmates. Why Democrats are even more enthusiastic about this boondoggle is totally beyond me.
Actually, only 2 of the 8 Republicans on the committee voted for this nonsense. Zarelli, Hewitt and Parlette abstained. So the Democrat support is 75% and the Republican support is 25%. Democrats are 300% more likely to support giving taxpayer money away to conservative Republicans, than Republicans are! How ironic!
Prentice is roundly condemned as a DINO in some circles. She has a long history of underhanded undercutting of mainstream Democratic agendas and legislation. She routinely abuses the power of her chair position. It’s no surprise that she will back an arena in her own backyard to the detriment of just about anyone else in the state. What is a surprise is that she has been so baldly caught in this tawdry power move. . . .
re 33: So, the most important question you can think of is how to define rich?
Yes, there are many ways to define rich: rich in spirit, financially well-off, super-rich, lower middle-class as compared to pre-Chavez Venezuelan poor. Shall I continue.
For the purposes of this argument, let’s say rich is anyone who gets a $100,000 a year tax break from the Bushista tax breaks.
Life is a zero sum game. It’s all about percentages.
Wow, the people that want to get money create a computer simulaiton that shows some possible scenarios for the destruction of the floating bridge. Since it’s just a simulation, and can easily be programmed to show whatever the heck they want it to, I would likt to suggest that they simulate the following scenario:
As the Road Runner crosses the bridge at high speed, the coyote fires up his Acme rocket skates in yet anohter futile attempt to catch some dinner. As we all know, the rocket skates are notoriously unreliable, and these manage to explode in mid-span on the bridge. What we need from the state is to see a model of the destruction caused by the shock wave from the exploding rocket skates.
If the exploding skates fail to provide the necessary shifting of the spans to destroy the bridge, toss in a large boulder that was bounced from a trampoline at one end of the span also hitting the bridge. Old Coyote launched the boulder to try to block RR’s path to safety, and trap him where he could be caught using the aforementioned rocket skates.
That should provide a scenario entirely as credible as any other simulation that was created by the people asking for the money.