Shorter AWB president

A sales tax for thee but not for me.

Adding, Brunell is probably right that it’s bad to excessively tax capital and research investment with a sales tax.

So what does that tell you about the tax system in this state? That’s right, it’s so stupid, regressive and beyond broken that we have to create special tax exemptions to lessen the stupid brokenness. It helps a lot if you have lobbyists.

It’s not just the bidness guys and gals who are impacted by the regressive nature of our tax system, it’s everyone. Now go to the Legislature in January and see if they will give you a sales tax exemption to invest in your house or car, and good luck with that. What, your personal lobbyist is not available? Sucks to be you.

Shhhhh! I know you’re thinking “gee, there must be some other kind of tax that isn’t regressive, could apply to both individuals and corporations and be graduated based upon how much money an individual or business actually earns.” For shame.

You’re not allowed to think about that, because then we might wind up having a realistic discussion of the tax system rather than the usual “divide and conquer” situation pitting labor versus business, private versus public and so on. What kind of Legislative session would that be?

BORING.

I’m looking forward to whatever sex offender-NASCAR stunts the Republicans will dream up this time, like tying public sector unions to the Tate murders or High School Musical 3.

Besides, our sales tax should work wonders in a continued deflationary spiral. As prices and wages fall, sales tax revenue takes a double hit!

Rinse, repeat.

Comments

  1. 1

    Rick D. spews:

    I’m looking forward to whatever sex offender-NASCAR stunts the Republicans will dream up this time ~ David Goldstain

    Probably better ones than the Child molesting-Show tunes whistling Democrats will dream up.

  2. 3

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Jon–
    We Conservatives HATE working people, old people & children….but mostly we hate Children.
    You are a MicroDot Head Jon.
    During the long-lasting BOOM Cycle which included INFLATION, Gregoire & the State Democrats spent like drunken sailors.
    $8 BILLION of increased spending in 4 years!
    You are now complaining about DEFLATION and the impact on the Budget.
    Cry me a river.
    Cut spending.
    The Democrats massively spent during good times…something Gregoire publicly acknowledged was “unsustainable”.
    She was right…but did it anyway.
    Now we are facing the consequences.

    Jon the MicroDot Head says spending it all in good times…then cry & raise taxes during a recession.
    What a boob.

  3. 4

    rhp6033 spews:

    Okay, here’s a lesson on corporate public relations and lobbying, taken from the link in the initial post (above).

    “The situation Democrats face today is similar to that Gov. John Spellman and his Republican colleagues experienced in 1981 when a faltering national economy blew a 20 percent hole in Washington’s state budget.

    In a scramble to find cash, Republicans scrubbed the list of tax incentives and started repealing them indiscriminately. In the process they wiped out a series of tax incentives to encourage manufacturers to locate in Washington or modernize their existing facilities here.

    Manufacturing investments virtually stopped.

    At the time, Crown Zellerbach was in the middle of a $425 million modernization of its antiquated Camas pulp and paper mill where 2,500 people worked. It was the only major construction project underway in the Northwest during a time of high interest rates, skyrocketing unemployment, and plummeting factory orders.

    The tax incentives had been the key factor in the company’s decision to update its Camas mill, and when the legislators wiped them out, it jeopardized the entire project.

    Crown Zellerbach had been assured that the incentives would be there before the project began. Eliminating them just two years later added millions of dollars in costs as the company was struggling to finance the project at interest rates of 12 to 15 percent.”

    Now, if you check out the history, you will indeed see that in the early 1980′s manufacturing investment virtually stopped in Washington State. So does this prove the thesis that a special sales tax exemption is helpful? Hardly. The causal link is tenuous, because in the early 1980′s manufacturing investment in the ENTIRE COUNTRY virtually ground to a halt, primarily due to a rescession who’s effects were felt for several years, astonishingly high interest rates, and foreign competition from countries who’s businesses weren’t encumbered by these problems. As for Crown Zellerbach, it was hurt more by the logging restrictions due to the spotted owl and other environmental considerations than the sales tax exemption. The wood-products industry in Washington State is a mere shadow of what it was before 1980, simply because the industry’s supply of wood products was significantly reduced.

    Of course, as the initial post indicates, a real state income tax would do a much better job of protecting emerging businesses than the current patchwork of sales tax and B&O taxes and exemptions. But such a change would be opposed by the big “mature” businesses in the state, who have managed to get secure favorable tax treatment over the years.

  4. 5

    headless lucy spews:

    Start taxing municipal bonds — or threaten to. Then the people in this state who are most worried about a small state income tax will have a realistic choice to make.

    When asked why he robbed banks, bank robber Willie Sutton stated: “Because that’s where the money is!”

    That’s why state governments need to tax the rich.

  5. 6

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Jon Spews:

    Besides, our sales tax should work wonders in a continued deflationary spiral. As prices and wages fall, sales tax revenue takes a double hit!

    Rinse, repeat.

    Uhhhhhhhhhh Jon, our sales tax did INCREASE substantially during an inflationary, boom cycle. In fact, they SKYROCKETED.
    The problem is the Dems spent it all rather than prepare for the inevitable.
    Now Government Employees like Headlice who in a School District wants more & new taxes…like the drug-infested tax addicts they are.

    Wake up, Grow up and Wise up Jon.

  6. 7

    John425 spews:

    Jeez! You guys never seem to see the other side of the balance sheet! When expenditures exceed revenue you gotta cut expenditures! You can’t spend your way into profitability.

  7. 8

    YLB spews:

    7 – What do you want to cut asshole? Whose lives do you want to put at risk or limit with your meat axe?

  8. 9

    Proud to be SeattleJew Today spews:

    Wealth Taxes

    We already have one tax that is somewhat progressive, the real estate tax. The more you own the more you pay.

    Sweden has a wealth tax. This seems to me to be a very good form of naturally progressive taxation , esp as it can be adjusted to protect investments as opposed to non-productive property. Of ocurse since most poor folks have little wealth, they would pay no tax.

    Wealth taxes also have the intriguing possibility of taxing assets held out of the country for those of us fortunate enough to dodge income taxes.

    On wrinkle that intrigues me would be to replace the estate tax with a wealth tax.

  9. 10

    rhp6033 spews:

    Note that, as Roger Rabbit has discussed at length previously, there are severe limits to what can be cut from the state budget. The State Constitution requires “full funding” of education. Lots of other services are either state allocations of federal revenue, or “mandates” by the federal government, or taxpayer-mandated initiatives. The remainder of the budget (aside from capital expenditures in road, bridges, etc.), isn’t big large enough to withstand cuts significant enough to offset large decreases in sales tax & B&O tax revenue due to a rescession.

    In other words, the low-hanging fruit has been picked long ago. All that’s left is the really tough stuff.

    So, the challenge is out there: what specific items will be cut to make up the deficit? Make sure your proposals account for significantly all of the estimated shortfall, not just an “art project” here and there.

  10. 11

    headless lucy spews:

    re 7: Ronald Reagan stated that deficits ‘don’t matter’.

    Was he lying, stupid, or both?

  11. 12

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Rickie Dumbdick @2 – You didn’t get the rest of it right, either. The last sex offender I read about was a Republican. Come to think of it, all of them were. Our state’s most notorious sex offender, Mary Kay LeTourneau, is the daughter of a pair of wacked-out wingnuts. Having Republican parents is what twisted her. Her mom was an anti-feminist and her dad was so rightwing he got kicked out of the John Birch Society for “extremism.” Show me a barrel full of nuts and I’ll show you a GOP caucus. Show me a GOP caucus and I’ll show you a roomful of ankle bracelets.

  12. 13

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    If we castrated sex offenders there wouldn’t be any Republicans within one generation.

    And if we castrated Republicans there wouldn’t be any sex offenders within one generation.

  13. 14

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @3 “Mr. Cynical spews: Jon – We Conservatives HATE working people, old people & children….but mostly we hate Children.”

    Yeah, we know. We also know you like goats.

  14. 15

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @4 “The wood-products industry in Washington State is a mere shadow of what it was before 1980, simply because the industry’s supply of wood products was significantly reduced.”

    That’s a myth. Washington’s wood-products industry tanked because it couldn’t compete with cheaper wood products from Canada and the Southeastern U.S.

    Furthermore, it would have tanked even without the devastating competition from Canadian or southern lumber or environmental regulations. Two factors were at play that guaranteed the 1970s level of logging employment would not last. One was mechanization of the logging industry that wiped out thousands of jobs. The other was the unsustainability of the cut rate.

    In the 70s and 80s, Washington’s forests were being cut at 5 times the regrowth rate. If this had continued eventually every tree in the state would have been cut. Then there would have been no wood-products industry or logging jobs at all. This made no damn sense. Which would you rather have, a lot of jobs for a few years, and a lesser number of jobs forever? The harvest rate should depend on a sustainable cut rate, i.e., the number of tress that are harvested does not exceed the number of new trees that grow.

    Of course, there’s more to it than a sustainable harvest rate. If you can’t economically compete because of lower transportation or labor costs elsewhere, harvesting restrictions are irrelevant.

  15. 16

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Blaming the decline of the logging industry on environmentalists is bullshit. The industry got 99% of Washington’s old growth trees and presevationists got the other 1%. But that was still too much for the rape-and-run crowd who wanted to cut every last fucking old growth tree. But even that wasn’t enough to satisfy them, because they wanted free license to kill every last remaining salmon, too. Many of the logging regulations enacted since the 70s are to limit or mitigate (notice I didn’t say prevent) damage to salmon streams from logging operations.

  16. 17

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    See what I mean? Business owners don’t have to pay sales taxes. Only workers have to pay sales taxes. That’s why you should get your income by owning stuff instead of working for it. Everyone should own shares of the means of production, and no one should work or consume. That way, you’ll get to pay the same sales taxes that businesses pay.

  17. 18

    John425 spews:

    YLB @#8 gets hysterical over the idea of budget cuts and rants that I put lives at risk.Say, hey, asshat- you ever hear of executive pay cuts? You probably bitched and moaned about demading pay cuts for Wall Street. How about Government executive pay cuts in Olympia? How about asking Gregoire to repeal her Casino deal? How about a 10% cut for the big shots at UW? You really think a friggen college football coach is worth 2 Million a year? How about privatizing the Ferry system? That’s a major friggen drag on our tax system. How about merit pay for teachers? That’d get rid of the lazy-ass teacher crowd! Oh, wait- Gregoire is bought and paid for by unions- that’ll never work. How about a means test for Medicaid abusers? How about a means test for all the illegal assholes who show up at Harborview Emergency room and suck up all the dollars needed to treat poor Americans? How many poor American blacks or Latimos died because some fuck up here illegally from Guatemala used up all the funds for our people?

  18. 19

    ArtFart spews:

    One portion of what remains of the forest-products industry in the Northwest–the cultivation of fast-growing poplars to make toilet paper–has been drinking from the goverment teat lately to fund the creation of trees that have been genetically altered so the wood contains almost no lignin. The idea is that such wood, being almost pure cellulose, would be less costly to ferment to make alcohol for fuel. One can’t help but wonder about the possibility of this genetic alteration cross-pollinating its way into some of the natural-growing tree stock, eventually leading to alders, maples, oaks and other species so weak that they’d turn to powder in a high wind.

  19. 20

    spews:

    Are there any groups in Washington actually working on laying the groundwork for an income tax initiative, or introducing it to the legislature? That or making the property tax far more progressive? (Put aside the fact that Gregoire has promised not to raise taxes, ugh.) I just wonder what the long-term plan is; a fairer and more logical revenue stream should appeal to everyone, if it were constructed with input from reasonable parties.

  20. 21

    rhp6033 spews:

    RR @ 15 & 16: Okay, I’ll admit I don’t know as much about logging practices and industry in this state as you do. I just moved out here in 1979. And it does make sense that harvesting trees on Washington’s steep hillsides by mostly manual labor is hardly economical compared with trees in the south which can be harvested mechanically on level ground. I’ll take your word at it about the sustainability rate.

    But my central point is that the decline of the wood products industry in this state had NOTHING to do with sales tax exemptions, as the article claims. Yet I’m sure we will hear similar arguments many times, with respect to many industries.

  21. 22

    ArtFart spews:

    4 I actually had a brief conversation with John Spellman back in the 80′s, which might shed a little light on the subject at hand. He came and made a speech to the employees at the medical-instrument company I worked at (he and the CEO were old friends) and expounded at some length on how “high tech” (mind you, this was back when Gates and Allen were just getting started in New Mexico) was the hope for renewing our region’s industrial vitality. Afterwards I asked him if that meant he wasn’t an advocate of “rebuilding smokestack america”, which was a subject of much national blather at the time. “Nope, it just isn’t practical”, he replied. “Costs too much to subsidize”.

  22. 23

    headless lucy spews:

    re 18: Why should the taxpayer-built ferry system be turned over to some well connected ‘private’ asshat who will then raise rates and continue to collect a tax — only now it’s ‘private’ so it’s OK?

    If some ‘private’ concern wants to build the ferries and the docks and start their own ferry system, who is stopping them?

    No one.

  23. 24

    Right Stuff spews:

    “Besides, our sales tax should work wonders in a continued deflationary spiral. As prices and wages fall, sales tax revenue takes a double hit!”

    Well in an economic down cycle there is higher unemployment and thus less tax revenue.
    And there are plenty of states WITH income tax that are, if not more, facing the same budget shortfalls (too much spending) than WA.
    I’ve posted the link here before. The state of WA is going to take in More money this year than last…..

  24. 25

    Right Stuff spews:

    @15
    No myth. The logging industry lost 80% of it’s available harvest. Most timber companies couldn’t survive. I agree it’s not 100% a one dimensional issue ( decline of WA timber industry) but please, THE major factor was the loss of available harvest, by govt mandate, not Canada.

    “1980 Washington companies harvest 5.7 billion board feet of timber. .
    1986 Over the objections of environmentalists, Congress begins ordering
    the Forest Service to increase the sale of timber on public lands. .
    1989
    Environmental groups launch a series of lawsuits alleging that
    federal timber sales in the Northwest violate the Endangered Species
    Act by harming the northern spotted owl.
    .
    1990 The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service lists the spotted owl as
    endangered. 53 and 54
    1990 Washington companies harvest 5.8 billion board feet of timber. .
    1991
    U.S. District Court Judge William Dwyer places an injunction on
    federal timber sales and restricts logging on most national forests
    and some private timberlands in the Northwest.
    .
    1993
    In an attempt to resolve the spotted owl controversy, President
    Clinton holds a forest summit in Portland. His administration later
    devises the Northwest Forest Plan. The plan sets aside habitat for
    owls, substantially reduces timber harvests on public lands, and
    increases economic aid to lumber workers and timberdependent
    communities.
    52 and 55
    1994 Congress and Judge Dwyer approve the Northwest Forest Plan. The
    injunctions on timber sales are lifted. .
    1998
    The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service lists several Washington State
    salmon runs as endangered. This decision leads to new limitations
    on logging near rivers and streams.
    .
    2000
    Washington companies harvest 4.1 billion board feet of timber. The
    reduced logging during the 1990s bankrupts many of the state’s
    small mills.”

    Quoted from UW study.

  25. 26

    Lysander spews:

    I am in favor of more tax cuts to be paid for by ending government monopolies like the state liquor control board and the state ferry system.

    Anyone else in favor of such ideas?

  26. 27

    Puddybud, Very Sad Today... spews:

    headless@11: Let’s update that quote:

    “This is a time when deficit fear has to take a second seat”. – Barney Frank…

    Is he lying, stupid, big tax and spender, or all of the above?

  27. 28

    Puddybud, Very Sad Today... spews:

    John425: You are asking yelling loser boy to think.

    Hell will freeze over first.

  28. 29

    Susan spews:

    Don’t the Democrats control this entire state? The Governor, House and Senate? If they want to put in place an income tax they can do so immediately in the next session.

    So explain to me – WHAT IS STOPPING THEM?

  29. 30

    Piper Scott spews:

    @23…hl…

    You don’t know anything about Washington State Ferries, do you?

    State law prohibits operation of private ferrie routes in competition with the state on the same runs or runs nearby.

    WSF management admits WSF is financially unsustainable. WSF has botched procurement of new boats for many years despite legislation in 2001 and 2003 (the Nickel Package) mandating them.

    WSF will have to sharply curtail existing service and routes (Anacortes to Sydney, BC route to terminate after next year, other intra-state runs curtailed).

    Vessels in need of maintenance and preservation don’t get it. The old Steel Electrics’ preservation efforts were cut off well before the decision to pull them, which was itself a botched effort and process.

    WSF is purchasing one boat for the Port Townsend – Keystone run for millions more than what was estimated. Instead of getting the roughly five ferries called for in legislation over the past several years, WSF will end up with one – and not the best one either. The Island Home-class design is ill-suited for that run for many reasons.

    Remember…this is an agency where the poor hourly workers include some 189 who make in excess of $100K per year.

    You really don’t know what you’re talking about.

    The Piper

  30. 31

    John425 spews:

    re 18: Headless Lucy asks: “Why should the taxpayer-built ferry system be turned over to some well connected ‘private’ asshat who will then raise rates and continue to collect a tax — only now it’s ‘private’ so it’s OK?”

    Dear Headless Lucy: If you are still looking for your head, have someone look up your ass! The WSF system WAS privately built and sold to the state in 1951. Union wages strangled the system then and looks like they continue to do so today.

  31. 32

    YLB spews:

    John425 gets beyond stuck on stupid one liners!

    YLB @#8 gets hysterical over the idea of budget cuts and rants that I put lives at risk.

    Hey! All I did was call you can asshole for doing a Tim Eyman. So you’re not Tim but unfortunately you’re still an asshole.

    Say, hey, asshat- you ever hear of executive pay cuts?

    Wow brilliant idea moron. Cut executive pay for a government executive and what happens? Little thing called the “free market” that you guys worship. They work somewhere else. They got to send their kids to college too. As hard as it for you to believe, some of them are competent at their jobs. The government doesn’t pay competitive wages, they don’t provide good services and guess what – the right wing says “I told you so”. Fuck that.

    Asshole.

    You probably bitched and moaned about demading pay cuts for Wall Street.

    Like Wall Street didn’t fuck up their own business critical like.

    How about Government executive pay cuts in Olympia?

    Just answered that.

    How about asking Gregoire to repeal her Casino deal?

    Why? You want to spread gambling even more than it is now? Look around dipwad – people have less to gamble with. Big money revenue raiser!

    How about a 10% cut for the big shots at UW? You really think a friggen college football coach is worth 2 Million a year?

    They’ll just go somewhere else. Same with the coach. Free market. The work some of those UW professors do recycle back into the local economy with new innovations and job creation. Wise investment. Winning seasons for the Huskies means sold out games and a lot of merch sales. Big bidness. Oh and lower taxes for freaks like you.

    How about privatizing the Ferry system? That’s a major friggen drag on our tax system.

    It’d be a disaster like any right wing idea like vouchers. More public dissatisfaction with public infrastructure and right wing shitheads “solving” the problem by cutting budgets even more while lining the pockets of well-connected private operators. Publics hates it, right wingers say “I told you so”, rinse and reapeat – to the bottom.

    How about merit pay for teachers?

    Unfair compensation practice that pits teachers against each other. I’m for not letting bad people into the system.

    That’d get rid of the lazy-ass teacher crowd! Oh, wait- Gregoire is bought and paid for by unions- that’ll never work.

    Blah, blah, blah – I guess you’ll take a guy bought and paid for by BIAW any day. Oh yeah, you did – Dino LOSSI!

    How about a means test for Medicaid abusers?

    All for wringing out any kind of abuse as long as eligible people can get services.

    How about a means test for all the illegal assholes who show up at Harborview Emergency room and suck up all the dollars needed to treat poor Americans? How many poor American blacks or Latimos died because some fuck up here illegally from Guatemala used up all the funds for our people?

    Who hires the illegals? For the most part, greedy right wing shitheads. Wow if greedheads only obeyed the law then the undocumented immigrant problem goes away.

    Thanks for answering my question by the way.

  32. 33

    Piper Scott spews:

    @32…YippeeLilBoy…

    “How about privatizing the Ferry system? That’s a major friggen drag on our tax system.

    It’d be a disaster like any right wing idea like vouchers. More public dissatifaction with public infrastructure.”

    The public couldn’t get any more dissatisfied with WSF than it is now.

    You’re an apologist for every government failure since the beginning of time. And you oppose every reform suggested since even before the beginning of time.

    Here’s one I bet you’ll love to hate: The gov is proposing deporting incarcerated illegal aliens.

    Cooperation with ICE, following federal immigration law, making the state safer, and cutting the state budget by saving $11.5 million per year – it’s all good!

    The Piper

  33. 34

    YLB spews:

    Oh by the way John425. You need to come up with some figures to go with your “ideas”.

    It’s what the adults do.

  34. 35

    YLB spews:

    The public couldn’t get any more dissatisfied with WSF than it is now.

    Sure it can. Just give the ferries over to a private operator who is well-connected to right wing Republicans. Rates go up. Service goes down.

    You’re an apologist for every government failure since the beginning of time. And you oppose every reform suggested since even before the beginning of time.

    I don’t apologize for the Bush mis-administration. The best reform is to fix the root problem – that means raising the revenue to do the job right. Not handing it over to a well-connected greedhead outfit who puts on a good dog and pony show and then writes in all kinds of escape clauses so they can underdeliver and skim a good profit in the process.

    Here’s one I bet you’ll love to hate: The gov is proposing deporting incarcerated illegal aliens.

    Yeah, I don’t like that on the surface. What are they incarcerated for? If it’s just for being caught doing stoop labor for right wing greed, being deported could mean their family starves. If they’re just a lone operator, they’ll find a way back into the country if they want to. If they’ve committed murder then you’re letting a murderer back onto the streets. Not good.

    Cooperation with ICE, following federal immigration law, making the state safer, and cutting the state budget by saving $11.5 million per year – it’s all good!

    A desperate, meat axe measure just means you’re putting off an even worse problem into the future. Nope, it’s not all good.

  35. 37

    Piper Scott spews:

    @35…YippeeLilBoy…

    “A desperate, meat axe measure just means you’re putting off an even worse problem into the future. Nope, it’s not all good.”

    How can deporting illegal-alien felons back to their home country constitute “putting off an even worse problem?”

    Isn’t it good that those who break our laws in the way they come here, then, while here, break our criminal laws (they’re serving time in state jails, which means they’ve been convicted of crimes) be summarily kicked out of the country never to return again?

    You show me the downside to that policy.

    The Piper

  36. 38

    John425 spews:

    RE: YLB @ 32 shows off his lack of awareness and understanding of anything not on his talking points of Workers Socialist Bullshit for the Masses list.

    RE: Free enterprize and government pay. -Fuck ‘em- let them go find another job! If we can’t find someone well-qualified to take $90K for a job that was formerly $100K, I’ll let you eat my hat.

    RE: Ferry System- yeah, right, the WSF is a national model of efficiency, labor relations and maritime safety.

    Vouchers and charter schools work. If you weren’t being regularly gang-banged by the WEA you’d research the options. Millions spent on every fucking new wrinkle in “social engineering” of education, every year and li’l Johnny still can’t read. Talk about public dissatisfaction with the public infrastructure!

    No merit pay for teachers? What People’s Republic of the WEA do you live in? I think a Masters in Ed and proven experience is worth more than a brand new Bachelors and ought to be recognized but I guess that isn’t allowed in Utopia, eh?

    Gambling revenues: With your asshole logic we ought to turn the state Lotto over to the Indians. Nobody has a gun to your head at the casino. Las Vegas is still Las Vegas.

    Hiring illegals is the realm of leftist assholes who donate $50 to MoveOn.org and believe that salves their social conscience enough to hire an illegal day laborer hanging around Home Depot. Fuck you! You have no objective take on anything!

    PS: Even Gregoire gets off her ass long enough to get a dim understanding of the impact of illegal immigrants and today she favors deporting the criminal element. Eight fucking years and she finally gets it- a wee tiny glimmer of understanding.

  37. 39

    YLB spews:

    37 – You know you are truly doomed in the right wing bullshit business because even the most fatuous right winger can see through you.

    You didn’t answer my question: what are they in jail for? If it’s just an immigration sweep on a tip from a racist wingnut it may mean the poor stoop working slob’s family starves.

    And no the right response to someone who’s committed a crime is to remove them from society not send them back to their country of origin where they more often than not will be let on to the street to sneak back into this country and do it again.

    Penny wise pound foolish – it’s the right wing way.

  38. 40

    YLB spews:

    38 – Too much stupid there to bother commenting but it was worth it to drag your silly ass out of it’s one liner then run away hole.

  39. 41

    Piper Scott spews:

    39…YippeeLilBoy…

    They’re serving SENTENCES, which means they’ve been convicted of a CRIME. If you’d bothered to read the linked article, you would have figured that out.

    Yet you want Washington taxpayers to continue to foot the bill for them rather than ship them home where they belong? I don’t think so…and neither does Gov. Gregoire.

    All you have to offer is name calling, cliches, and vacuous empty rhetoric. What a sad and pathetic little life you must lead.

    The Piper

  40. 42

    YLB spews:

    Ok just too tempting a target.

    RE: YLB @ 32 shows off his lack of awareness and understanding of anything not on his talking points of Workers Socialist Bullshit for the Masses list.

    You mean “Socialist Workers Party”? Never voted for it in my life. I usually vote Dem. I voted a couple times for Norm Maleng but wrote in Mark Sidran after the Sotelo flap. It’s so typical of your ilk to call anyone who deplores your views a “socialist”. Must be that Limbaugh talking points tape that runs in
    your head.

    RE: Free enterprize and government pay. -Fuck ‘em- let them go find another job! If we can’t find someone well-qualified to take $90K for a job that was formerly $100K, I’ll let you eat my hat.

    Exactly the right wing strategy. It’s hard enough to do good job or make a positive difference. Make it even harder by cutting your pay. Don’t care for you hat under any scenario much less the guy under it.

    RE: Ferry System- yeah, right, the WSF is a national model of efficiency, labor relations and maritime safety.

    Never said it was. The way most right wingers run their business would just make it worse in my opinion. Yes, I’ve actually worked for right wingers.

    Vouchers and charter schools work. If you weren’t being regularly gang-banged by the WEA you’d research the options. Millions spent on every fucking new wrinkle in “social engineering” of education, every year and li’l Johnny still can’t read. Talk about public dissatisfaction with the public infrastructure!

    My kids are in the public schools. Seattle public schools. They read just fine. My oldest didn’t need any school, public or private. He was recognizing words when he was freaking 3 years old. For the right wing, if you pay public schools teacher a decent wage and benefits that robs the private school where the parents demand Limbaugh as part of the curriculum.

    No merit pay for teachers? What People’s Republic of the WEA do you live in? I think a Masters in Ed and proven experience is worth more than a brand new Bachelors and ought to be recognized but I guess that isn’t allowed in Utopia, eh?

    Like I said I support not letting bad people in. Plenty of morons with graduate degrees like Limbaugh-loving right wingers. And the only people I know who harp on Utopia are wingnuts.

    Gambling revenues: With your asshole logic we ought to turn the state Lotto over to the Indians. Nobody has a gun to your head at the casino. Las Vegas is still Las Vegas.

    Your asshole logic puts words into my mouth. Yes I like the alcohol laws in this state. Makes this a better place to live IMO. I came from California where there was an ugly liquor store on every corner. Huge magnets for crime. Spreading gambling would only do the same. If that sounds a little nanny state, too bad. Mea culpa. Community has to decide where to draw the line with addictive behavior. I decide to regulate it. Got something against Indians?

    Hiring illegals is the realm of leftist assholes who donate $50 to MoveOn.org and believe that salves their social conscience enough to hire an illegal day laborer hanging around Home Depot. Fuck you! You have no objective take on anything!

    LMAO!! Never hired an undocumented worker from Home Depot or anywhere else in my life. My Dad did though. And he was a Republican. It’s your subjective silly ass that needs some schooling.

    PS: Even Gregoire gets off her ass long enough to get a dim understanding of the impact of illegal immigrants and today she favors deporting the criminal element. Eight fucking years and she finally gets it- a wee tiny glimmer of understanding.

    Gee what’s the non-criminal impact? Cheaper food, services, housing.. The good life for the right wing consumer like you who runs the Limbaugh tape day in, day out. Sure go ahead. Load them on cattle cars and ship them south if that makes you feel better. All 10, 11 million of them. Smart right wing thinking.

    As for the criminal impact, there’d better be a jail cell waiting for them in their country of origin or if history is any indicator, they are back in this country and back on the street without too much delay.

  41. 43

    YLB spews:

    Yet you want Washington taxpayers to continue to foot the bill for them rather than ship them home where they belong? I don’t think so…and neither does Gov. Gregoire.

    You’re still avoiding the question: SENTENCES for what? Drug and property crimes? That’s what the article says.

    So according to the article. She’s NOT in favor of deporting murderers because there’s NO JAIL CELL waiting for them in their country of origin and that would be just letting a dangerous guy back onto the street to sneak back into the country.

    But to balance the budget she wants to deport petty criminals who make ends meet boosting materials off a construction site or sell a rock or a bag of weed to an American. Sorry. Desperate measures in my opinion.

    You’re so full of bullshit it’s pathetic. And you’ve turned to the right wing bullshit racket because you can’t hack it producing real things of value to people. Sorry right wing bullshit is of NO VALUE except to the sheep like John425.

  42. 44

    John425 spews:

    YLB @#42 cracks me up with his silly inconsistencies. On the one hand he decries pay cuts for Government executives becsause they might leave for more pay elsewhere, but doesn’t want to use merit pay to attract better teachers because he thinks it’d be pitting teacher against teacher. Gee, “pay for performance” mean anything to you? You want more pay for teachers? Fine. Give the taxpayer a promise of student improvement. Like the WEA, you are afraid to use private schools as a measuring stick against the Seattle School District. My eldest son attended Bertschi School on Capitol Hill back in the day when the city was a good place to raise kids in. And… I’m pretty sure the teachers there didn’t have near the benefits that SSD hands out. Now, I prefer the 425 area code life.

    Liquor stores on every corner? Nanny state-ish? Been to Belltown lately? Nickels has the SPD chasing strip club misdemeanors instead of the drug dealers down there. No doubt you think the Mayor is a Limbaugh fan, right? BTW: I’m not a fan. Limbaugh is too tendentious.

    I’ll bet you also favor keeping the illegal aliens here because they just take jobs that only poor, untrained African-Americans and American-born Latinos could have. Like in the construction and fast-food trades.

    If your Dad was a Republican, it’s a friggen shame he didn’t teach you anything. Your drivel suggests that he was a closet Democrat. Or-perhaps just in the closet.

  43. 47

    YLB spews:

    “In the closet”… Oh Low blow.. And they wonder why we call them repukes or some such..

    Let’s see…. Silly inconsistencies… I’d say poor reading comprehension on your part.. What else…

    On the one hand he decries pay cuts for Government executives becsause they might leave for more pay elsewhere,

    Yes, and by doing so playing right into the right wing strategy of firebombing the government so it serves THEIR narrow interests instead of EVERYBODY’s interests with a little bias towards the poor and the middle class.

    but doesn’t want to use merit pay to attract better teachers because he thinks it’d be pitting teacher against teacher.

    No one goes into public service to get rich. Why foment resentment by pitting public servants against one another? Oh!!! That plays into the right wing strategy of firebombing the government so it serves their narrow interests – Limbaugh/Hannity/Faux Noise/Parochial religious teaching private schools.

    Gee, “pay for performance” mean anything to you?

    Works great for some private operators.

    You want more pay for teachers?

    A living wage will do.

    Fine. Give the taxpayer a promise of student improvement.

    As of now. I personally have no complaints. My kids are doing fine. Parents should make the call as to how well the school performs. Public schools have to educate EVERYBODY. A lot of students have special needs and the schools have to deal with sometimes overwhelming social issues. Seattle allows some flexibility for the parent to send their kid wherever they believe works best. This worked well for us. Not so well for others. More resources would be helpful. I believe this state ranks in the lower quartile for per-pupil spending in the country. Changing that would help.

    Like the WEA, you are afraid to use private schools as a measuring stick against the Seattle School District.

    Because that makes no sense. Private schools don’t have to deal with near the issues.

    My eldest son attended Bertschi School on Capitol Hill back in the day when the city was a good place to raise kids in. And… I’m pretty sure the teachers there didn’t have near the benefits that SSD hands out. Now, I prefer the 425 area code life.

    425? Of course. First I detect a slight animus towards Native Americans and now gays. Capitol Hill? Hmmmm.. Makes sense.

    Liquor stores on every corner? Nanny state-ish? Been to Belltown lately? Nickels has the SPD chasing strip club misdemeanors instead of the drug dealers down there. No doubt you think the Mayor is a Limbaugh fan, right? BTW: I’m not a fan. Limbaugh is too tendentious.

    Strip clubs? There’s hardly any in this town. So what? If the SPD has slacked on the drug trade it’s probably because some of their people have gotten a little TOO enthusiastic about enforcement inviting lawsuits.

    I’m with the Libertarians like Lee on this one. The drug war like the Iraq war has been a disaster and things need to change – a lot.

    Gee if I had a dime for every right winger who these days refuse to admit they listen to Limbaugh I’d be set for life.

    I’ll bet you also favor keeping the illegal aliens here because they just take jobs that only poor, untrained African-Americans and American-born Latinos could have. Like in the construction and fast-food trades.

    If you want to ship 10,11 million or so people south in cattle cars then yes, you’d better take that up with right wing business operators. They’ll sign up for getting those folks back through those legal “guest-worker” programs so fast, it’ll make your head spin. I’m for people having jobs that pay a living wage in safe working conditions no matter what the color of their skin or where they came from. If they’re undocumented don’t hire them. It’s against the law isn’t it?

    If your Dad was a Republican, it’s a friggen shame he didn’t teach you anything. Your drivel suggests that he was a closet Democrat. Or-perhaps just in the closet.

    I heard many a tirade from my Dad who was a small business owner against Dems. All my opinions, I came to on my own.

    And yes, I resent your silly jibe against my father. Fuck you asshole.