Sen. Bernie Sanders is my hero

Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, the only Socialist in the US Senate, is in the process of filibustering the tax cut bill the old fashioned way… by, you know, actually filibustering. In other words, he’s been speaking uninterrupted for more than three hours now.

Bravo, Sen. Sanders!

As he took the floor, Sen. Sanders’ staff tweeted:

“You can call what i am doing today whatever you want, you it [sic] call it a filibuster, you can call it a very long speech…”

I call it patriotism.

UPDATE:
Sen. Sanders has actually been talking since 10:25 AM Eastern Time, so it’s actually been about six hours already.

UPDATE, UPDATE:
Figured out how to embed the live stream. Watch.

UPDATE, UPDATE, UPDATE:
I’ve just emailed Sen. Maria Cantwell:

Sen. Cantwell,

I am writing to encourage you to please join Sen. Sanders in his heroic performance on the Senate floor today. It looks like he could use a break

You might want to do the same. It also might be nice to send Sen. Sanders a word of thanks.

UPDATE, UPDATE, UPDATE, UPDATE:
Eight and a half hours later, it’s over. And Sanders remained engaging throughout.

Comments

  1. 1

    Blue John spews:

    Why bother?
    “Things are different today — and, whatever Sanders does, the Senate isn’t scheduled to hold any votes until Monday, so its practical effects may not amount to much. “

  2. 3

    spews:

    Then logically speaking, Obama must be unpatriotic?

    Um, Goldy? You told us to vote for Obama.

    We are still waiting for an apology from you.

  3. 4

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    January 20, 2013–
    THE END OF AN ERROR!

    Bernie’s a kook, but a good kook.
    At least he stands up for what he believes in…albeit misguided.
    At least he admits he is an unabashed Socialist.
    Perhaps Bernie will challenge Obama.
    Would you support him Goldy?
    After all, Bernie is your HERO.

  4. 6

    Mark Centz spews:

    @5- “adequately” is generous, but you are a gracious host. And trolls eyeballs count towards ad views, so… Welcome Nitwits! Thank you for supporting our socialist conversation!

  5. 7

    Michael spews:

    heroic performance

    I’m glad Sanders is doing what he’s doing and I hope others join him, but I think it’s a bit of a reach to call it heroic. Let’s save that term for people that do more than just talk for a really long time.

  6. 10

    Sam Adams spews:

    I may not agree with his politics…but to conduct a filibuster isn’t a walk in the park.

    If they adjourn and resume tomorrow then it’s NOT a real filibuster.

    Until then: ROCK ON!

  7. 11

    Famished spews:

    I called both senators and asked them to support Senator Sanders. It is an amazing miracle to see someone who really loves people and his country and then acting on those beliefs with courageous action. Go Bernie Go! I’ll hope that Murray and Cantwell decide to join.

  8. 16

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    Why not just have a single, flat-rate personal income tax and get rid of all this damn complexity, rules, regulations, forms and hassles?

  9. 17

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    @16,

    Actually, what I’d really like is to move away from income tax entirely to a national sales tax. That way, we don’t have to “justify” our existence to the IRS and the government each April 15th.

  10. 19

    Rujax! spews:

    18. platypusrex256 spews:

    diarrhea of the mouth is patriotic? thus spoke goldy ;-p

    12/10/2010 at 4:37 pm

    You gonna bring some game, sonny?

  11. 20

    Rujax! spews:

    http://www.politico.com/news/s.....46162.html

    The White House Wednesday defended itself from charges that new tax cuts in the deal reached this week with Republicans will leave the poor worse off next year.

    Larry Summers, the president’s outgoing chief economic adviser, conceded that families earning less than $20,000 a year will pay more in taxes next year, after President Barack Obama agreed with Republican demands to replace the expiring Making Work Pay tax credit with a one year cut in the payroll tax used to fund Social Security and Medicare.

    Fuck the poor. What do they need money for?

  12. 21

    Michael spews:

    @17

    Actually, what I’d really like is to move away from income tax entirely to a national sales tax

    Our current tax system encourages spending, you get tax breaks for houses and kids (expensive little buggers) and have to pay tax on the 2% you’re earning on your savings account. Moving to a national sales or VAT tax would encourage saving your money. Big Bidness might not like it, but I’d go for it.

  13. 23

    Rujax! spews:

    22. platypusrex256 spews:

    @18 i already did! game over! me: 10 you: 0

    12/10/2010 at 5:41 pm

    In your dreams, moron.

  14. 24

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @22

    Puerile is not charming, Platy.

    And, we already have a delusional kook around here – Putz – who likes to declare himself the winner of arguments, much to everyone’s bemusement.

  15. 25

    spews:

    scientist @ 24

    Well. I think pudge is unselling himself. I’ve often crowned myself Ruler of All The Known Universe and all the Unknown Stars. Feels great.

    As for platy… I’ve often wondered if pudge uses a Tourette Syndrome simulator to author his/her comments.

    But platy makes pudge and Mr Cynical look sane in comparison. I’m not talking about Shakespearean style nonsense, either, which is much harder than it looks. Platy just babbles.

    Maybe he’s using those poetry sticky magnets and alcohol to help him/her compose posts.

    Either way, I have no idea what’s he/she is talking about.

  16. 26

    CC "Bud" Baxter spews:

    People say they disagree with Senator Sanders, but not a single one of them can dispute his facts. There is no use trying to talk logically with right wing nut jobs, or any republicans, because they all pull facts and figures right out of their butt. Virtually all the propaganda coming out of the republican party is George Orwell double-speak which doesn’t have any basis in reality.

    When they are confronted with truthful facts and figures from Senator Sanders, they pretend like these are just his “opinion” and it is OK to have a different opinion. Bullshit! As someone once said, we are all entitled to our own opinion, but we are not entitled to our own facts.

    The entire republican party platform is based on pure fantasy. They never, and I mean never, back up their positions with actual facts like Senator Sanders does.

    He is an American hero. Anyone who doesn’t see this is living down the rabbit hole with Alice.

  17. 27

    CC "Bud" Baxter spews:

    The most startling fact he had today is that the upper 1% get 23% of all income in the USA! In the seventies, before Reagan torpedoed the middle class, the upper 1% only got 8% of all income.

    The reason middle class wages have been stagnant for over thirty years is because all the extra money has been flowing to a few rich assholes at the top.

    This year the upper 1% earn more than the bottom 50% combined!!

    Why the hell do these rich people need even more tax breaks?! They are already rich beyond their wildest dreams. And they are rich precisely because they stole this money from working class people to pad their exorbitant salaries.

    An average millionaire got bush tax cuts of $100,000 per year. An average worker earning 40K only got around $900 in tax cuts. So the millionaire got a bush tax cut 100 times bigger!

    Does health insurance cost a millionaire one hundred times what it does you and I? Do they pay 100 times for a gallon of milk or gas? Hell no!! All the everyday living costs, which take a huge bite out of average peoples wages, are the exact same cost for millionaires. So why the hell is their tax break 100 times bigger?

    Why do lazy trust fund babies who haven’t worked an honest day in their life deserve even bigger tax breaks than hard working middle class Americans?

    Reagan started the biggest heist in the history of the world and old GW Bush finished us off.

    Republicans have to be the dumbest sheep of all time if they believe GOP policies have benefited them in any way shape or form. My god republicans are dumb. I mean dumb as a pile of rocks. They vote against their own personal self interest because they swallow the Limbaugh propaganda without even thinking for one second.

  18. 29

    Proud to be an Ass spews:

    @16: Really? How ’bout this: We have a rule that 10% of those whose incomes are above $1million in any given year are randomly chosen to be shot at sunrise?

    Now there is an interesting incentive, eh?

  19. 30

    Proud to be an Ass spews:

    @18 i already did! game over! me: 10 you: 0

    So we’re playing golf? Guess you lose!

  20. 31

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @3 No, the Senate Republicans are unpatriotic, for throwing our military into disarray by holding “Don’t ask, don’t tell” reform hostage for tax cuts for the rich.

  21. 33

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The Democratic Party should be renamed the Jellyfish Party. The only thing they’re good at is getting stomped on by Republicans.

  22. 35

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @17 “Actually, what I’d really like is to move away from income tax entirely to a national sales tax.”

    Yes, I’m sure you would. The rich really, really like the tax system we have here in Washington, which taxes the poor 5 1/2 times as much as it taxes the rich, and would love to have that kind of tax system at the national level, too.

  23. 37

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @25 Although I’m projecting into the future, I do seem myself in a position to be King of the Earth after you humans extinct yourselves and we rabbits fill your niche.

  24. 38

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Someday there’ll be nothing left on this planet except lettuce, me, and 100 trillion billion cute fluffy female rabbits.

  25. 39

    Proud to be an Ass spews:

    @38: Some day the sun will expand and turn the earth into a cinder, so you and your trillions of concubines will be as dead as everything else.

    Comforting thought, eh?

    Enjoy it while you can.

  26. 40

    Puddybud identifying useless Moonbat!s since 2005 and identifying rujax as an arschloch and zotz as a fool! spews:

    And, we already have a delusional kook around here – Putz – who likes to declare himself the winner of arguments, much to everyone’s bemusement.

    Well Liberal one, you haven’t bested me in a while. In fact when you use Media Morons you already placed yourself at a disadvantage!

    ROCK ON fool!

  27. 43

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ Id

    (And all the other raging teabaggers)

    RAAAAAWK! Deficit! RAAAAWK! Porculus!

    RAAAAAAAWK!

    No sentience whatsoever. To the point where I actually start wondering if theres some bot out there that specifically looks for websites like this and inputs a random Glen Beck phrase into the discussion.

    You keep dancing that same old dance.

  28. 44

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @27

    This year the upper 1% earn more than the bottom 50% combined!!

    I suspect that your verb might be incorrect.

  29. 45

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @27

    The Gini coefficient is a very interesting and useful tool for understanding wealth distribution.

    The nations with the lowest Gini (ie most even or egalitarian wealth distribution) are Sweden, Norway and Luxembourg (per the CIA). The US has a Gini in the neighborhood of Cameroon, Cote d’Ivoire and Uruguay. Embarrassing.

    Moreover, looking at the graphs of Gini changing over the past few decades, since about 1980 (Hmmm, what happened that year?), both the US and Britain’s Gini has deteriorated, while that of comparable nations like Canada, Japan, Germany, France and Sweden have been stable or improved.

    Conservative, Republican, supply-side, Freidman-esque, “support the job creators” – whatever you want to call the policies we’ve relentlessly enacted – they have been a disaster for the majority of Americans.

    But we’re
    -not gonna let no faggots in the Army,
    -not gonna let no lesbos convince our gals to get ‘bortions,
    -we’re gonna stand proud and tall and demand that we clap louder and louder that “this is the greatest country in the history of the galaxy!!!
    -we’re still going to continue creating a bunch of illiterate Bible-thumpers dedicated to understanding science the way God laid it all out in the Bible;
    -We’re not gonna let the gubmint take away our stuff with the death tax

    -and we’re certainly not going to engage in communistic fascist class warfare, no sirree.

  30. 46

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    According to both UN and CIA, infant mortality is not evenly distributed between nations, and is not perfectly correlated with absolute wealth, per se.

    As one might expect, countries with the lowest infant mortality include Iceland, Sweden, and Japan. As with Gini, the USA (we’re the GREATEST!!) is well down the list, with neighbors like New Caledonia and Crotia.

    Within the USA (we’re the GREATEST!!), this coefficient is not evenly distributed across states, either. As attentive readers might guess, the worst rates are in Republican paradises like Lousiana and South Carolina, while the lowest rates are in communist hell-holes Massachusetts and Minnesota.

  31. 47

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    This is a fascinating read about the distribution of wealth and income (not the same, sort of analogous to debt and deficit), and consequent power, within the USA (we’re the GREATEST!!)

    Some excerpts:

    As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers).

    In terms of types of financial wealth, the top one percent of households have 38.3% of all privately held stock, 60.6% of financial securities, and 62.4% of business equity. The top 10% have 80% to 90% of stocks, bonds, trust funds, and business equity, and over 75% of non-home real estate. Since financial wealth is what counts as far as the control of income-producing assets, we can say that just 10% of the people own the United States of America.

    (my emphasis)

    I don’t want to risk blockquoting too much – read it yourself, and weep for this country. Then go out and kick a capitalist.

  32. 48

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Distribution of income is also obscenely distorted in this country.

    Some more snippets from this long and scholarly paper:

    As of 2007, income inequality in the United States was at an all-time high for the past 95 years, with the top 0.01% — that’s one-hundredth of one percent — receiving 6% of all U.S. wages, which is double what it was for that tiny slice in 2000; the top 10% received 49.7%, the highest since 1917 (Saez, 2009). However, in an analysis of 2008 tax returns for the top 0.2% — that is, those whose income tax returns reported $1,000,000 or more in income (mostly from individuals, but nearly a third from couples) — it was found that they received 13% of all income, down slightly from 16.1% in 2007 due to the decline in payoffs from financial assets (Norris, 2010).

    and this:

    …from 1990 to 2005, CEOs’ pay increased almost 300% (adjusted for inflation), while production workers gained a scant 4.3%. The purchasing power of the federal minimum wage actually declined by 9.3%(my emphasis), when inflation is taken into account.

    Really, go read the whole thing – then grap a pitchfork!

  33. 49

    Puddybud identifying useless Moonbat!s since 2005 and identifying rujax as an arschloch and zotz as a fool! spews:

    Puddy thought most of the super rich CEOs jockstrapped for Odumba and his party…

    Just wade through the names. Puddy recently covered Jeff Bezos loving the DUMBOCRAT! That thread died quickly except the dumb cinder block rujax trying to resurrect it!

    Puddy knew there was another reason to dislike Starbucks coffee. The CEO was in the Odumba dumper!

    It’s so simple yet Liberal Scientist is so STUPID!

  34. 50

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    It’s so simple yet Liberal Scientist is so STUPID!

    So Putz, you still haven’t answered my question – how did God move a breeding pair of Emperor Penguins from Antarctica to Noah, and back, for their ride on the Ark? And…where’s the evidence in their genome that a near-extinction event took place, with all that that predicts for constriced diversity in the consequent population?

  35. 52

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    It’s so simple yet Liberal Scientist is so STUPID!

    But back to politics and justice, you twit.

    It’s not about Democrat and Republican per se, (though the latter has completely gone off a supply-side cliff, masquerading as a born-again white power megachurch) it corporatist – it’s plutocrat versus all the rest of us.

    Unfortunately the plutocrats have a bunch of low-IQ Teahaddists fools like yourself parading about and yelling ” NO Gays!” and ” NO Death Taxes!” “O-dumba!!” and “Laffer Curve!!” – all against their own economic interests (unless, of course, Putz, you’re a billionaire and we don’t know it!)

  36. 53

    Puddybud identifying useless Moonbat!s since 2005 and identifying rujax as an arschloch and zotz as a fool! spews:

    HAHAHAHA

    Wrong thread Liberal Scientist
    … Let’s see if the thread police react! BTW Puddy doesn’t react to your bidding unless Puddy decides to react.

    But it is about DUMBOCRATS and Republicans. It is about class warfare… something you guys love to bring up all the time. Unfortunately for you Puddy knows where to look for the rich CEO and like minded DUMBOCRATS who disdain high taxes!

    This thread is about Bernie Sanders and his dislike for the rich. Maybe he should be hating Alan Grayson, Nancy Pelosi and other rich thieving Congressional DUMBOCRATS!

  37. 54

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Interesting website, you linked to, Putz.

    Had you looked at the billionaire list closely, however, you would have seen that only 36% of the individuals listed gave a majority to Democrats.

    Of the largest 7 donors, the maximum proportion to Dems was 28%, and on average only about 5%.

    Statistics are a bitch.

    (Oh, and what about pygmy mammoths on the Ark? Were there any?)

  38. 55

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    What one derives from rich people giving to both parties, is that they are trying to, or have, captured both to varying degrees, no question.

    The distinction is that the Republican/conservative rank-and-file, like yourself, are too stupid to see that you’re doing the bidding of your Koch masters, because like Pavlov (whom you curiously like to quote) they ring the bell of homophobia, anti-feminism, racism, fear of terrorists, fear in general, and dupes like yourself come right along and do what you’re told, screaming about death taxes and death panels and Sarah Palin’s legs, like the good little tools you are.

  39. 56

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Wrong thread Liberal Scientist…

    What are you raving about?

    We’re discussing wealth and income maldistribution and the corrosive effects on our nation as a result.

    Questions about Noah get at your credibility and capacity for critical thinking – and therefore assist all in weighing the value of your comments, and also keep you from running away from such questions as you tend to do.

  40. 57

    Puddybud identifying useless Moonbat!s since 2005 and identifying rujax as an arschloch and zotz as a fool! spews:

    Ahhh yes Liberal Scientist focusing on only that which he can make an argument stick.

    First are all CEOs billionaires?
    Second why did you select billionaires?
    Third only 36% of billionaires?

    We were led ALL the rich are Republicans. So 36% blows that class warfare argument KABLAMMMO!

    Really sicks to be you Liberal Scientist.

    Now start looking at Millionaires!

    Bested again by little ol Puddy!

  41. 58

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Maybe he should be hating Alan Grayson, Nancy Pelosi and other rich thieving Congressional DUMBOCRATS!

    You know what the difference is, you pustulous Putz? It’s not that Democrats are against wealth – I like living in a nice house, taking vacations from time to time, sending my kids to good schools. It’s that I/we want good things – economic security, stable housing, good educations, leisure and comfort – for everybody!

    You corporatist Christianist fiends want want want for yourselves – to get richerer and richererer – all for the pursuit of MORE, and, I suspect, a little tingle of joy in your loins knowing that those around you DON’T HAVE.

  42. 59

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @57
    God you’re dense.

    As I’ve already said,

    We’re discussing wealth and income maldistribution and the corrosive effects on our nation as a result.

    and

    It’s not about Democrat and Republican per se, (though the latter has completely gone off a supply-side cliff, masquerading as a born-again white power megachurch) it corporatist – it’s plutocrat versus all the rest of us.

    ******

    First are all CEOs billionaires?
    Second why did you select billionaires?
    Third only 36% of billionaires?

    As I did with your Palin gaffe “rebuttal”, I looked at your link and quite quickly was able to show that it did not support your “argument” (or what passes for such in you infantile ravings). You really need better debating skills. (That’s DE-bating, master Putz, oh I wish I hadn’t mentioned Sarah Palin – I fear for your computer monitor!)

    ******

    By the way, what about those penguins?

  43. 60

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Oh, boy, I did it.
    I went and mentioned tingling loins and Sarah Palin in a single post. I don’t think we’re going to hear from Putz for awhile…

  44. 61

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ 60

    He’s in his bunk, probably for the whole day.

    Spuddy is a case in point, and it is probably a good thing to see that in here. The guy has obvious mental health problems, and is representative of the real issue. I’ve been convinced for a long time that he would be happy living in (and paying rent on) a cardboard box under a bridge somewhere, as long as the top 20% of individual income earners in this country get to own everything.

    He’s a bootlicker. Happy to scrabble on the floor for scraps as long as massa don’t whup him.

  45. 63

    Zotz sez: The microchip in Klynical's ass was transmitting 6... 6... 6... spews:

    He’s a bootlicker. Happy to scrabble on the floor for scraps as long as massa don’t whup him.

    Calling him out as HA’s resident Oreo gives his shit too much credit, huh?

    I repent. Would Uncle Tom work?

  46. 64

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ 63

    It just interesting that 148 years after the emancipation proclamation, and a mere 52 years after Selma, that the psychology still exists.

    Obey, obey, submit, obey. The Boss eats meat, so I get to eat fatty scraps. The boss wants my house, so I’ll be more than happy to accommodate him, and move out. The Boss wants to send my children off to a foreign land to kill and be killed by other peoples children, so they should do their duty.

    After all, he is the Boss, and is the Boss because God made it so.

  47. 67

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ 66

    Nothing racial about it, I say the same thing to the tealiban fascists no matter their cultural or ethnic heritage. They’re utterly stupid, and you can’t fix stupid. Stupidity has no cultural or ethnic boundaries.

    As for the current economic situation, This article provides some insight as to why it seems to be continuing, and why nobody seems to have the ability to rectify it. The reality is, they just don’t want to. They LIKE things the way they are, and see no reason to change anything.

    As for you fascists in here, try reading the article, and not just dismiss it based on the website it was published on. Real intelligence reads, even if the source isn’t your first choice to get it from.

  48. 68

    Puddybud identifying useless Moonbat!s since 2005 and identifying rujax as an arschloch and zotz as a fool! spews:

    Jason Osgood,

    It’s their ad hominem progressive way. Then they try to “talk” their way out of it.

    Whack job progressivism for you!

  49. 69

    Puddybud identifying useless Moonbat!s since 2005 and identifying rujax as an arschloch and zotz as a fool! spews:

    It’s not that Democrats are against wealth

    What? You are loony… It’s DUMBOCRATS who keep class warfare alive each day. Pelosi and others are upset over the estate tax deal. Did you listen to the Anthony Weiner attack on estate taxes vs Megyn Kelly. It was hilarious. Weiner would never answer the questions put forth by Megyn.

    You are one loony toon liberal scientist.

  50. 70

    spews:

    Deathfrogg @ 67

    I don’t know. The above comments made me feel uncomfortable. And disappointed.

    As I understand it, puddy is african american. Bringing in phrases like “Uncle Tom”, “massa”, “Oreo” is just complete bullshit.

    This is not the forum, nor are we the people, to have a constructive discussion about racism. And using racial themed or tinged trigger words is definitely not constructive.

  51. 71

    Puddybud identifying useless Moonbat!s since 2005 and identifying rujax as an arschloch and zotz as a fool! spews:

    I’ve been convinced for a long time that he would be happy living in (and paying rent on) a cardboard box under a bridge somewhere, as long as the top 20% of individual income earners in this country get to own everything.

    What you’ve convinced us about deadtoad is that you are a prima facie moron.

    Apparently you have no idea about Puddy, what Puddy does and how Puddy lives. Good! Better you stay ignorant therefore you can be 100% ignorant all the time. You demonstrate your ignorance to facts so well each day!

    Ta ta!

  52. 72

    spews:

    puddy @ 68

    You are in no position to criticize.

    I’m disappointed that some people respond to you in kind. My specific issue here, as before, is the slippery slope of hate speech. (Which you do with alarming frequency.)

    Did you watch the Stewart/Colbert rally in DC?

    Most people missed their point. They were not trying to make a false equivalence between left and right wing wackos.

    Their point is simply that…

    Responding to right wing anger with anger of our own does not help us address the pressing problems of our times.

  53. 73

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Re: above recent comments.

    I too am uncomfortable about the race issue here.

    My issues with Putz are that he is violently, relentlessly, obliviously wrong. That he espouses positions that are more typically held by fascist whites is another matter entirely. Perhaps one to discuss, in terms of society, self-loathing, racism/oppression and any number of other facets would be edifying, but my responses have been, I think, independent of his ethnicity, which I have no first hand knowledge of in any case.

    *******

    Pelosi and others are upset over the estate tax deal.

    There you go again, raving about a tax on vastly wealthy people that very very few people are encumbered by – and yet it is front and center in the psyches of you Teahaddists. Do you not care about schools and infrastructure and poverty and food safety and environmental regulation? About gratuitous foreign wars? About erosions of civil liberties?

    What gets your blood boiling? The estate tax? Really?

    Putz, you are a caricature of yourself.

    ******

    BTW, I’m still waiting to hear about that Emperor Penguin transport system that moved a breeding pair from Antarctica to Noah and back – or did Noah pick them up after the ark had set sail?

  54. 74

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    I saw the movie Temple Grandin last night on HBO. I was really really moved – and left with her world view, that she repeated a number of times:

    The world is cruel. We don’t have to be cruel.

    I think that’s another difference between you and me, Putz – Republicans embrace the cruelty of the world as an excuse for being even more cruel and rapaceous; we Liberal Progressives strive to blunt the cruelty in the world.

  55. 75

    spews:

    Puddybud is heavily invested in the insurance policy he took out on the afterlife. He’s paid much premium – in money and time.

    I mean that’s how he’s characterized faith in the past – just like taking out an insurance policy.

    It’s too sick.

  56. 76

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ 72

    Responding to right wing anger with anger of our own does not help us address the pressing problems of our times.

    Sitting idly by, passively accepting the situation is precisely why the situation continues to exist. I will not accept being robbed, I will not accept being excluded from higher education based on my income, I will not accept the enslavement by the super rich of my person. I will not accept being prevented from exercising my Rights under the US Constitution based on my economic status. I will not sit passively by, while my country is turned into a banana republic, by the people who only seek to punish Americans for not adhering to their ideal of religious capitalism.

    I WILL BE ANGRY.

    We fought the Fascists for a goddamn good reason, and people like Spuddy and Cynical and Id embrace their slavery, embrace their total submission to an authoritarian political system based purely on the ability to pay the politicians for their services, and position of birth. They actively embrace oligarchy and plutocracy. Even though they would be on the receiving end of the worst such a system has to offer.

  57. 77

    Steve spews:

    @75 “just like taking out an insurance policy”

    The so-called “faith” of Puddy and the KLOWN is that of two gamblers hedging their bets. Their’s is a “just in case” adoption of Christianity. It’s also good for the “we’re going to Heaven and you’re not” bullshit they constantly spew here. If Heaven is for such as the KLOWN, then I want nothing to do with it. I’d rather spend eternity in Hell instead. Besides, the Devil knows how to party.

  58. 78

    spews:

    Deathfrogg

    I’m not advocating passivity or apathy. Please.

    I’m exhorting everyone here to fight smarter.

    What is your goal? For the other side to acknowledge that you’re correct? Or do you want to win?

  59. 79

    spews:

    scientist @ 76

    Online flame wars are just performance art.

    Best as I can tell, the only troll that believed the stupid shit she said was “lost”. That’s why she took her ball and went home.

    The rest are just picking a fight. For giggles.

    Don’t fall for it.

  60. 80

    spews:

    scientist @ 74

    Temple Grandin, thanks for the tip.

    I just googled her. I remember reading about her and her work. The livestock slaughterhouse stuff still haunts me .

  61. 81

    Steve spews:

    @78 It’s not like Oreoism should be some “we’ll never go there” subject matter.

    Look at the racist crap Puddy’s “bestus bud” here comes up with.

    5. Mr. Cynical spews:
    Barack Obama got out of the shower and was drying off
    when he looked in the mirror and noticed he was white from the neck up to
    the top of his head.
    In sheer panic and fearing he was turning white and might have to start
    working for a living
    , he called his doctor and told him of his problem.
    The doctor advised him to come to his office immediately. After an
    examination, the doctor mixed a concoction of brown liquid, gave it to
    Barack, and told him to drink it all.
    Barack drank the concoction and replied, ‘That tasted like bullshit!’
    The doctor replied, ‘It was, you were a quart low.’
    07/08/2009 at 9:11 pm

    Or this pathetic exchange between Puddy and another of his friends,

    53. Troll spews:
    @49
    Are you talking about the niggers beat Tubaman to death, and only going to be sentenced to weeks in jail?
    04/03/2009 at 6:09 pm

    54. Troll spews:
    The teenagers that beat Tubaman to death are niggers.
    04/03/2009 at 6:16 pm

    55. Puddybud, Hey it’s the new year… spews:
    Troll@53, there are white ones too.
    04/03/2009 at 6:21 pm

    I personally don’t approve of the “Oreo” tag being used by whites (originally a slur used by blacks), but just how are we supposed to discuss the obvious racial self-loathing we all see?

  62. 82

    Zotz sez: The microchip in Klynical's ass was transmitting 6... 6... 6... spews:

    Jason, you evidently haven’t been paying close enough attention.

    The person playing Pudpuller deserves every bit of the derision he receives here, racial and otherwise. He’s about as AA as chocolate syrup on a bowl full of cracker creme filling.

  63. 83

    Steve spews:

    I prefer humor.

    Say, did you hear that Puddy’s big fat mama ate a school bus full of white kids? Apparently she mistook it for a Twinkie. heh-

    I was gonna visit Puddy’s mama last night but the dog at the end of the line kept growling at me. heh-

  64. 84

    Steve spews:

    Puddy’s mama is absolutely amazing. How on earth does she do that trick of her’s with the watermelon and two cantelope??? I swear, it defies the laws of physics! heh-

  65. 85

    Steve spews:

    Puddy’s big fat mama loves to swim in the ocean. Unfortunately, last week there a case of mistaken identity. Some whaling Makahs harpooned her! heh-

  66. 86

    Zotz sez: The microchip in Klynical's ass was transmitting 6... 6... 6... spews:

    Puddybud is heavily invested in the insurance policy he took out on the afterlife. He’s paid much premium – in money and time.

    I mean that’s how he’s characterized faith in the past – just like taking out an insurance policy.

    It’s too sick.

    He’s “invested” alright.

    As an apocalyptic cultist, he has a vested interest in the violent end of the world accompanied by genocidal slaughter.

    There is no way to ever have a fruitful interaction with someone who yearns for the end of the world as the fulfillment of prophecy in his twisted interpretation of the bible.

  67. 87

    Steve spews:

    There is no way to ever have a fruitful interaction with someone who believes, despite all evidence to the contrary, that the earth is only 6000 years old.

  68. 90

    Puddybud identifying useless Moonbat!s since 2005 and identifying rujax as an arschloch and zotz as a fool! spews:

    Wow Stupid Solution Steve… That’s all you got?

  69. 92

    Puddybud identifying useless Moonbat!s since 2005 and identifying rujax as an arschloch and zotz as a fool! spews:

    Stupid Solution Steve, check the records and figger out how many times Puddy has told you his mother died long ago.

    So Puddy will repeat… That’s all you got?

  70. 93

    Puddybud identifying useless Moonbat!s since 2005 and identifying rujax as an arschloch and zotz as a fool! spews:

    Puddy can’t wait until Jesus returns. These atheist fools will be shocked!

  71. 94

    Steve spews:

    @93 Is that all Jesus means to you – a source of revenge against folks who don’t agree with your stupid political views? How pathetic. Go back to cherrypicking Bible verse that justifies your perverse hatred for everything good and decent, fool.

  72. 95

    Steve spews:

    My Mom being dead never protected me from “yo mama” jokes. And I didn’t cry like a baby about it like you do either. I dished it right back. I gave as good as I got. So grow up and take it like a man.

  73. 96

    spews:

    Steve @ 81 (zotz too)

    So if puddy jumps off a bridge, you’re jumping too?

    Or maybe it’s part of your cunning plan.

    You’re going to beat puddy by being more crazy, more belligerent, more inconsistent, more nonsensical, more hateful, more offensive, more more more.

    What you’re not getting is that “puddy” is some guy’s online persona. It’s not a real person.

    Puddy’s entire purpose is to fight. As Liberal Scientist observed, puddy keeps score for himself. He feels glee every time someone loses their cool. (Digby explains this right wing pathos in her “The Action is the Juice” essays. Invaluable reads.)

    Think of Puddy as your little brother. He instigates a conflict. Then when you punch back, he plays the victim. Waterworks. Theatrics. Then you’re in trouble with the parents. Because you’re older and you should know better.

    Puddy does these things because he can. It’s his entertainment. (Anyone with siblings knows how this game is played.)

    You’re also missing the toxic effect hate speech has in politics and society.

    How we talk changes how we think. It’s why (and how) propaganda works. This isn’t just some foo foo new age pop psychology; it’s well supported by empirical evidence.

    Every time you say (or repeat) something hateful, you’re changing into that which you despise.

    Perhaps I’m mistaken. I’m making the (charitable) assumption that you fellas (and others) actually want to make changes for the better. I’m telling you now that the eye for an eye strategy isn’t working.

    If I’m wrong, that you guys get your hate on for kicks, then I apologize. Knock yourselves out. But please don’t claim some noble purpose, getting all huffy and defensive.

    If you are just being trolls, just know you guys kinda suck at it. Puddy’s a much better troll than anyone else here. His ability to provoke responses is pretty impressive.

    He reminds me of a kid from grade school. One day during recess he ran around tweaking people. He successfully got about 1/2 of the kids to chase after him in rage. That was one happy kid. You could just imagine him thinking “Look what I can do! Tee hee hee!”

    Finally, back to the racism crap.

    It’s indefensible. Period. Trying to rationalize it is pathetic.

    “Your Mama’s…” jokes are hysterical. Between friends. Your mutual admiration society is not engaging in The Dozens. You’re trying to be hurtful towards someone you hate. Which would be fine, minus the racism.

    Liberals and progressives hatefully telling racists jokes. What the fuck are you trying to accomplish?

    You’re not helping.

    I, again, politely, ask that you please stop it.

    If Puddy, Mr Cynical, and the other trogs want to engage in hate speech, then by all means let them. It’s not exactly flattering behavior. For anyone.

  74. 97

    Puddybud identifying useless Moonbat!s since 2005 and identifying rujax as an arschloch and zotz as a fool! spews:

    Think of Puddy as your little brother. He instigates a conflict.

    Wrong Wrong Wrong! Puddy has these fools right where Puddy wants them to be.

    Puddy’s entire purpose is to fight.

    Wrong Wrong Wrong! Puddy is the big brother trying to give guidance against their stupidity. Puddy cares about his people. Progressives look at Puddy’s people as voting cattle and they never do anything to help. Puddy explains the big difference between a liberal and a progressive. A liberal actually has a brain. A progressive is brain dead!

    Puddy just returned from a Haiti Fund Raiser with a much lighter wallet. Didn’t see any HA leftist there at all. That’s the big diff Jason Osgood. Puddy puts Puddy’s money where Puddy’s mouth is. Progressives WAIT FOR THE GOVERNMENT to react.

    This is why Puddy attacks fools like zitz, liberal non-scientist, deadtoad, stupid solution steve, databaze fool ylb, and the dumb brick rujax.

  75. 98

    Puddybud identifying useless Moonbat!s since 2005 and identifying rujax as an arschloch and zotz as a fool! spews:

    He reminds me of a kid from grade school

    Huh? Now you are off your rocker!

    All Puddy does is provide facts from the main stream media, not kook-aid sites like these fools troll over every day!

  76. 99

    Puddybud identifying useless Moonbat!s since 2005 and identifying rujax as an arschloch and zotz as a fool! spews:

    If Puddy, Mr Cynical, and the other trogs want to engage in hate speech,

    It was rujax who claimed anyone who disagreeed with Odumba it was hate speech. Puddy was shocked to learn rujax was part of the Journolist. If identifying the progressive mental affliction is hate speech well…

  77. 100

    Puddybud identifying useless Moonbat!s since 2005 and identifying rujax as an arschloch and zotz as a fool! spews:

    Is that all Jesus means to you – a source of revenge against folks who don’t agree with your stupid political views?

    Ummm Stupid Solution Steve, what does the Bible say about people like you and the friends you “hang” with here? Those are not Puddy’s words but Jesus’.

  78. 102

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Jason @ 96

    I think your thoughts on Puddy are well taken.

    I initially took his pleas for relevance and earnestness at face value, and I engaged him, or tried. Even above on this thread I explained my thoughts and made relevant links in rebuttal to what he had to say. But I really think you are correct – he wants to toss grenades, laugh maniacally, call people names, anoint himself the winner of arguments – without ever really engaging in any debate of ideas.

    And, he apparently really thinks that the earth is 6000 years old. No really. And that God moved penguins from Antarctica to the assembly point for Ark departure. I really really have a hard time taking anyone seriously who embraces biblical literalism to such an insane degree (or really any degree). I’ve dogged him this past week with iterations of this question – mostly to see just how deep down the rabbit hole (sorry Rog, just an expression) Puddy had fallen. And I think pretty deep is the answer.

    It’s too bad, really, because having an adversary to engage is essential for honing an argument, for clarifying a vision, for working out flaws. It really would be great to have a thoughtful discussion with someone earnest and intelligent and well meaning…alas. I was thinking about this earlier today, as I drove home from work – that I was done sparring with him, as it really is a total waste of time.

    *******

    As to the issue of the tone in some of the posts above, I thought the ‘yo mama’ jokes were pretty stupid and misplaced, and possibly cruel in intent, which was surprising, as I found them beneath the poster’s usual standards.

    *****

    As for the racism, I think the issue is very very complex. Puddy not infrequently tars liberals or progressives (I don’t understand the distinction as it exists in puddy’s vernacular) with abandoning African American, of not doing anything to change their circumstance, particularly the urban poor, and of counting on their votes as a matter of course for the Democratic party. I think there’s merit in some of his assertions, though often drowned out by his destructive antics.

    (It’s also interesting that Puddy, who I understand is black – I’ve never met him – expresses these critiques of the treatment of African-Americans in general, rightly so, but has never, that I’ve read here, sprung to the defense of any other oppressed group – women, Native Americans, Latinos, other immigrant groups, gays and lesbians – nope, just the people who look like him.)

    I think what he is utterly blind to, for whatever reason, is that the growing chasm between the very very few rich, and the many many insecure and poor – black and white and any other color – is very clearly driven by the conservative Republican supply-side, socially darwinistic, compassion-less greed-based capitalism that he (and Cynical and Id and lostinaseaofblue) espouse.

    I wish that African Americans had a better option than going with the Democrats, as expected, or joining with a group that is openly contemptuous. (and I think that is what a number of the posts above were getting at – esp the frog’s) I wish I had a similar choice. I think that’s why many of us post here – as a way of finding others who, likely support Democrats generally, identify that our ostensible party too has been significantly captured by the forces of big big money and power. I for one think that that represents a threat to our people as great as any we face – the slide back in to feudalism and plutocracy.

  79. 103

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @101

    I think if you need to announce your absurdity, you’re not absurd, but rather a poseur.

  80. 104

    Puddybud identifying useless Moonbat!s since 2005 and identifying rujax as an arschloch and zotz as a fool! spews:

    I initially took his pleas for relevance and earnestness at face value, and I engaged him, or tried.

    Bullspit… Using Media Morons as your earnest response is LAUGHABLE!

    And, he apparently really thinks that the earth is 6000 years old. No really.

    Puddy believes in the Bible literally and figuratively. If Puddy is right what will you do literal scientist.? What will you do?

    And that God moved penguins from Antarctica to the assembly point for Ark departure.

    You just don’t understand. God can do anything. He’s God!

    (It’s also interesting that Puddy, who I understand is black – I’ve never met him – expresses these critiques of the treatment of African-Americans in general, rightly so, but has never, that I’ve read here, sprung to the defense of any other oppressed group – women, Native Americans, Latinos, other immigrant groups, gays and lesbians – nope, just the people who look like him.)

    Apparently you are an unstable monster. Puddy has done that many times. Ask ylb Liberal Scientist. Grow a big black set and ask ylb. Gain the upper hand for a change.

    Puddy realizes you are angry and upset with the psychological torment of your vaulted messiah of a preznit going down the tubes. Well we warned you! See ya… Gotta take care of the wife. She likes the big set.

    Oh by the way… the name calling started on Puddy long before Puddy started name calling. Search Puddybutt and ButtPuddy Liberal Scientist. All the way back to 2005. Go ahead.

  81. 106

    spews:

    scientist @ 102

    It’s too bad, really, because having an adversary to engage is essential for honing an argument, for clarifying a vision, for working out flaws.

    This is a different kind of fight. With an emphasis on messaging.

    By all means continue to rebut Puddy (et al). You’re making your case for benefit of the audience, not Puddy.

    Whenever you respond to a winger, make the most of the opportunity. Start your own memes. Moot their argument. Redirect the discussion to assert your position. Pitch your affirmative agenda for positive change. Use humor and sarcasm to mock their position. Throw their own words back at them to emphasize their hypocrisy.

    Every single time you post, you can make your argument(s) stronger.

    Surprisingly, Puddy’s a pretty good source of the latest absurd right wing memes.

    I strongly disagree with Goldy’s choice to grant trolls like Puddy such a fantastic soapbox. But it occurs to me just now that Puddy posting here saves me the effort of reading the right wing blogs. A very thin silver lining.

  82. 107

    spews:

    puddy @ 97

    Puddy just returned from a Haiti Fund Raiser with a much lighter wallet.

    That’s an awesome act of generosity on your part.

    Progressives WAIT FOR THE GOVERNMENT to react.

    Not in my experience. For instance…

    I encourage you to attend a Sustainable Ballard meeting sometime. They don’t complain. They don’t wait for permission. They just do.

    I’ve met plenty of complainers, sure. But I’ve also met plenty of doers. If you haven’t met the progressive doers, you haven’t looked very hard.

    I’ve also met enough Republicans and conservatives to know that you don’t represent those communities. The same is true of the left wing trolls that post here on HA.

    Okay. Enough serious. Get back to trolling. You’ve got plenty more people to piss off.

  83. 108

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    If you haven’t met the progressive doers, you haven’t looked very hard.

    Well Jason, they don’t live here on HA!

  84. 109

    JC spews:

    I would call it egomaniacal and would warn anyone feeling inspired by his 8+ hours of BS to imagine an America where he was president. There would literally be a stampede of capital out of this country, Ayn Rand would be rolling over in her grave so quickly she’d become a rotisserie, and the negative wealth effect would dwarf what happened in 2008.

  85. 110

    Steve spews:

    @96 “If I’m wrong, that you guys get your hate on for kicks, then I apologize. Knock yourselves out.”

    @102 “I thought the ‘yo mama’ jokes were pretty stupid and misplaced, and possibly cruel in intent, which was surprising, as I found them beneath the poster’s usual standards.”

    I suspect that we have cultural differences, you two and I. I started out life in extreme poverty in the housing rojects of Seattle and it went downhill from there to homelessness on the streets and my living in detention centers after my Mom died when I was ten. I not only grew up with blacks, we lived together, along with Native Americans, sharing the fact that we all had nothing. We did not even own the clothes on our backs. We had no possesions whatsoever, not even a simple toy. Worst of all, guilty of being poor and having no family, we lost our freedom. We were locked up. We couldn’t take a piss unless we were escorted by a guard to the toilet. We grew up dreaming not of fancy things. We grew up dreaming that one day we might be free. We dreamed up being able to simply step outside and not having an all-points bulletin issued for our arrest. We dreamed of birthday celebrations and Christmases. We dreamed of having family. We dreamed of losing the stigma of poverty and of being “different”. We grew up not playing, not studying, but dreaming of a life that did not demean or humiliate us at every turn. I pray to God that you did not know such things as a child. I thank God that Puddy, though he knew poverty, was able to know his family’s love. I suspect that the love he knew has carried him far and has helped lift him above the poverty he once knew.

    None of us kids had mothers. But we did have “yo mama” jokes. And yes they were cruel.

    Bye the bye, my dreams came true. As a child I was constantly told by white men in suits who blew smoke rings in the air that I was destined for a life of crime and imprisonment. They were wrong. I became a contributing member of society. I design the laboratories where scientists work. I design the courtrooms where attornies practice their law. I design the universities where students learn. I design the hospitals where patients are healed. I’ve had my birthday celebrated and I’ve known the joy of Christmas. I’ve known love and family.

    Am I perfect? No. Am I wonderful? No. So go ahead and judge me. But believe me when I say that I’ve known far worse than your judgement. That said, I really do care what you think of me.

    Puddy and I play a vicious game. We are adversaries. But if anybody here, left or right, says the wrong words to him I’ll have his back so fast your head will spin.

  86. 112

    Steve spews:

    John Kennedy was murdered a few months after my Mom died. When I looked at Bobby Kennedy’s eyes I believed that I saw a man, perhaps the only man in the world, who understood what I was going through. When I later heard him quote Camus, words that I’ll never forget for as long as I live, I knew that he understood.

    “Perhaps we cannot prevent this world from being a world in which children are tortured. But we can reduce the number of tortured children. And if you don’t help us, who else in the world will help us do this?”

    And then Bobby was murdered too.

    Perhaps my friend the HNMT has wondered why I love Bobby so and have long called myself a “Bobby Kennedy Democrat”. Now you know.

    Perhaps my friend Puddy has wondered why my entire estate will go to the Friends of Youth. Now you know.

    The child who once dreamed of freedom and a better life is now a man who is in a position to help others. I do the best I can, but it’s never enough. It never will be enough. The judgement of others will never equal the judgement I cast upon myself.

  87. 114

    Steve spews:

    @111 and 113 Thank you both very much.

    I was honored once to share a meal with Roger Rabbit, Zotz and Proud Leftist. It was made possible through an email exhange assisted by Goldy. I hope someday I can meet the two of you as well, as I have an awful lot of respect for the both of you.

  88. 115

    Zotz sez: The microchip in Klynical's ass was transmitting 6... 6... 6... spews:

    @114: Me too.

    But you’re wrong about Pudpuller, Jason.

    I urge you to give his posts a little closer scrutiny. The person who plays Pudpuller is seriously fucked up* — and not in a good way.

    *aka: insane, fruitloops, schizoid, delusional, etc.

    I repeat: Pudpuller is about as AA as chocolate syrup on a bowl full of cracker creme filling.

  89. 118

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Hey gang – I’ve been working all day and could not attend to the discussion in any detail.

    I’m bowled over by the comments, and Steve – like I said, wow.

    I know “thanks for sharing” is a cliche, but really – thanks. What you had to say was really really moving.

    I don’t have any insight into yours and Puddy’s relationship – and if that’s how you guys banter, OK – sound sort of like a bitter old married couple. That alone give some sympathetic insight into the performance that is Puddy – something I still do not understand.

    *****
    As for a get-together – that’d be excellent. I’ve thought about getting to DL, but Tuesday nights are not usually open for me, and I’m not sure who really goes to them.

    Shall we have Goldy put us in contact?

  90. 119

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @115, Zotz

    Do you have first hand experience with Puddy? Are you saying he’s bona fide crazy? Not black either? What gives?

    SJ has commented on the fact that he finds that the person who plays Puddy (PWPP) is wonderful in person, but offensive in his HA character, and that he does not understand this facet of his friend. Weird.

  91. 120

    spews:

    Search Puddybutt

    I did fool and the first one to call you that is someone you’ve recently claimed to have NEVER called you anything but Puddybud or Puddy or something else acceptable to you.

    I’m sure if you let the brain farts air out a bit, the identity of the person will emanate from one of the swiss cheese holes in your “vaulted” bubble memory.

  92. 121

    spews:

    Oh and the second time he called you that made me ROFLMAO!

    Oh how early those freaking miserable patterns were set! Too effin’ funny!

    OMGAWD!! The third time he called you that was the best!

    LMFREAKINGAO!!

  93. 123

    spews:

    scientist @ 118, incl. zotz, steve, rujax, et al

    My next free Tuesday is 12/28. Other weekdays are usually wide open.

    Drinking Liberally meets at the Montlake Ale House.

    I can suggest places in North Seattle. I’ve got wheels, so any where works. Georgetown or West Seattle sound appealing.

  94. 124

    Rujax! spews:

    @123…

    DL is quite cool…but I am open to meeting anywhere.

    OK by me if Goldy shares my email.

  95. 125

    Steve spews:

    I’d love to get together with everybody. Meeting the others was a wonderful experience for me. The thought that we could all get together someday is exciting. Zotz, Proud Leftist and myself all live on the west side of the water. I can’t speak for them, obviously, but I’d be very glad to travel for the big event. Don’t worry, I’m not such a downer in person and very seldom talk about myself, my work or my background. I’d rather display what I’m told is a wonderful sense of humor. But when I do talk about myself, I tell it the way it was. It was and is my truth. Accepting it and moving past the shame of it all has made me more free than I might otherwise be.

    I can’t tell you what Puddy really thinks of me. Lately I suspect that he finds me a great disappointment. But to tell the truth, there is nobody who posts here with whom I can relate to more easily than I do him. I believe that if we were to ever meet that we could become great friends. No one else would likely remember, but a year or so ago I mentioned here that I had suffered a deep loss and Puddy immediately dropped the act and was there for me. In the first person, no less. I really hope that he understands that I would do no less for him. If I can love my dear Ms. Wingnut, then surely I can be a friend to Puddy.

    Does anybody remember those inflatable toy punching bags, weighted on the bottom and usually shaped like a clown or something like that? You could smack it as hard as possible and it would pop back right back up. That’s my Puddy. He takes as good as I can give and keeps coming back for more, always giving as good as he takes.

    Hey, Rujax!, I saw your post a week or two ago about music and meant to reply. However, I unintentionally let it slip. Just so you know, Zotz is a musician as well and, if my memory serves me correctly, Proud Leftist is too.

    Hmm, YLB is another guy I’d like to meet someday. Headless lucy too.

  96. 126

    Steve spews:

    I should have mentioned Deathfrogg as someone I’d like to meet someday. Not only does he have the best screen name ever, he consistently posts great comments here. I’m sure I’ll think of others after I hit the “submit comment” button. No offense intended, guys. It’s just that there’s so many great people who post here that I can’t think of them all when pressed.

  97. 127

    proud leftist spews:

    Rujax, Steve, et al,
    Guitar, banjo, found an old harmonica. I was just down in the basement playing some Neil Young, Kris Kristofferson, my own shit, and John Prine so my wife didn’t have to hear it for the millionth time. Steve, Zotz, Michael (I think), and I live on the west side of the Sound. I can gather on either side. I’d kind of like to meet Puddy. I suspect he’s not as evil as his posts.

  98. 128

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Steve @ 110–
    Interesting, heartfelt recap.
    I can understand why you hold on to the bitterness but look at the bright-side…you made something of yourself despite the odds.
    Others do to but it’s rare steve.
    The government welfare state makes it easy not to pull yourself up.
    Welfare has wasted lots of lives that could have been productive.
    I grew up with little myself…but really had it all. Christian parents & grandparents who loved me and encouraged me. Money and things of this world matter little other than to allow opportunities to share the Truth.

  99. 129

    Zotz sez: The microchip in Klynical's ass was transmitting 6... 6... 6... spews:

    I guess I go to bed too early…

    I’m in on the jam deal. I have emails for Steve, Proud Leftist, Roger and Michael.

  100. 130

    Steve spews:

    “you hold on to the bitterness”

    LMFAO!

    “The government welfare state makes it easy not to pull yourself up.”

    heh- I’d likely have starved to death before I was a month old without welfare.

    Really, your dislike of government seems to cloud your ability to think clearly at times.

    “I grew up with little myself…but really had it all. Christian parents & grandparents who loved me and encouraged me. Money and things of this world matter little other than to allow opportunities to share the Truth.”

    My Christian mother instilled values in me as a small child that helped me survive and not turn turn to the dark side with the experiences I had after she was gone. I agree somewhat about money and truth, except without money one can starve to death. It’s why our social safety nets are so necessary. This also points to why you and I disagree on so many things discussed on this blog. It also reminds me why I took the strongest possible exception to Lost’s Dickensian vision for America.

    “Welfare has wasted lots of lives that could have been productive.”

    We attended church with other poor. While it may have resulted in a knock on the door on Christmas eve and our finding a box on the porch filled with food, it couldn’t pay the rent or buy coal for the furnace. For that we needed a welfare check. One thing the welfare check inspired in me was a desire never to be on the public dole again. Quite the opposite of how you seem to percieve welfare assistance programs – like some addictive drug.

    My Mom painted a portrait of Christ in the last months before her passing. It’s one of the very few possessions of hers I was able to recover after I became an adult.

  101. 131

    Steve spews:

    “The government welfare state makes it easy not to pull yourself up.”

    Welfare state? WTF is that these days? Did you sleep through the ’90’s?

    We disagree. I say that our social safety nets make it possible to pull yourself up. Remove them and many people lose their chance at life, if not life itself.

  102. 132

    spews:

    Money and things of this world matter little other than to allow opportunities to share the Truth.

    Heh. Your money allowed to you relay/broadcast the daily missives of Rasmussen here in the comment threads over 700 times over two years. Then it was shown he was structurally biased to the right.

    No wonder.

  103. 133

    spews:

    @103 if you have to identify as ANYTHING, you’re probably NOTHING. from what i see, everyone in these forums are so far removed from the object of their criticism. more than that, they are removed from themselves. does goldy or his friends really understand the capitalism that republicans claim to believe in? could puddy or his friends actually spell out their objection to keynsian economics, let alone SPELL it? or do they still quiver from the red scare? nobody seems to pay attention to me when i pose actual thought provoking questions. i don’t know. i think we all seem to say what gets a reaction. is anybody doing any actual thinking or feeling?

  104. 134

    Rujax! Reminding MISTER Cynical-ASS-Klown that the jesus threw pricks like him out of the Temple. spews:

    133. platypusrex256 spews:

    @103 if you have to identify as ANYTHING, you’re probably NOTHING. from what i see, everyone in these forums are so far removed from the object of their criticism. more than that, they are removed from themselves. does goldy or his friends really understand the capitalism that republicans claim to believe in? could puddy or his friends actually spell out their objection to keynsian economics, let alone SPELL it? or do they still quiver from the red scare? nobody seems to pay attention to me when i pose actual thought provoking questions. i don’t know. i think we all seem to say what gets a reaction. is anybody doing any actual thinking or feeling?

    12/13/2010 at 1:30 pm

    We generally give nube’s a little time. We like to see if they have anything at all to say.

    Don’t bother “telling me your story”, sonny.

  105. 135

    spews:

    Mr Cynical @ 128

    The government welfare state that you hate so much prevented my biological father from “turning me into hamburger”

    His words, verbatim, to my case worker.

    Every time a child is killed through anger or neglect reaffirms my belief that our government doesn’t do nearly enough.

  106. 136

    proud leftist spews:

    135
    Amen, Jason. Those who hate government are extremely naive about human nature. Cynny, Puddy, Id and the like aspire to a “Lord of the Flies” society, thinking none of them would be Piggy. Their intellectual challenges suggest otherwise.

  107. 137

    Steve spews:

    @135 Spot on. I’d have no doubt died as a kid if it wasn’t for the welfare state. Even as it was, I truly believed at age ten that I’d be dead before I ever saw eleven.

    My time was back in the early ’60’s when caseworkers didn’t believe what kids told them. Thank God that’s changed.

  108. 138

    Steve spews:

    @136 There are no doubt those who would scam, say, the unemployment and welfare systems. The government haters like the KLOWN hold them up and scream “culture of depedency!”. But to my mind, they’re just greedy haters. They’d sooner see people die than see themselves taxed a few dimes.

  109. 139

    spews:

    Steve @ 137

    The murder of Eli Creekmore changed everything. Prior to that, the mission of CPS was to keep families together. Now the welfare of the child is considered.

    Steve @ 138

    Coping with free riders like Mr Cynical is just the cost of doing business. Every organization, system, book club has built-in overhead.

    I believe, but cannot prove, that government is much less corrupt and far more efficient than the private sector.

    Because despite all its faults, government has much greater transparency and accountability. Shareholders should be so lucky.

  110. 140

    proud leftist spews:

    Steve
    The delusions that Republican ideologues indulge concerning welfare and taxes reveal their inability to alter doctrine, regardless of fact. As you know firsthand, living off the meager shekels that state welfare might provide does not create a lifelong desire to remain on the dole. Yet, we endlessly hear that mantra preached from people like Cynny. And, to hear them talk about taxes, they apparently believe that we on the left love taxes; we fantasize about imposing more taxes, get woodies thinking about taxes. They do not recognize that the left simply understands that taxes are a painful necessity if we are going to maintain the social compact that prevents us from becoming Somalia.

  111. 141

    Steve spews:

    @139 I just Googled the name. Good Lord. Good fucking Lord.

    In the year after my Mom died I was beaten with everything from a man’s fists and kicked in the head with his booted feet, a beating that lasted an eternity, to being beaten unconciousness by another man with a length of steel pipe. Both of them nearly killed me, as well as others. The first guy I mentioned left the house in a rage looking for his wife and I could barely crawl out of the house to escape. That’s when I became homeless. Better that than being killed. When I finally looked in a mirror I couldn’t even recognise myself. I had healed up by the time the police picked me up in school a few months later. Telling the caseworkers what had been happening to me, no one believed me. Then it was off to detention, tagged as a runaway JD. At least I was safe there. At that point I was someone that nobody near my age or even several years older would fuck with. I must have had “I’ll kill you if you fuck with me” written all over me.

    You had already left dinner, PL, when I told Roger and Zotz that “I was one of those kids”, whose abusers Roger had earlier said he would see dead. I told them that I was eleven years old and had a “Death List”. There were people I was going to kill and I meant it. But eventually I let go of it a few years later.

    @138 the KLOWN wrote to me that “you hold on to the bitterness”. He has no fucking clue what I had to let go of so that I could move on and live a decent and happy life.

  112. 142

    Steve spews:

    One caseworker said to me, “I’ve interviewed him and he’s a good man”. At that point, I started unloading anger on caseworkers like they’d never seen before. “I can say anything in this session? Anything at all?” And I did.

  113. 144

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @133

    could puddy or his friends actually spell out their objection to keynsian economics, let alone SPELL it?

    I believe that’s Keyn-e-sian, sport.

  114. 146

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @138

    Are the few and petty scammers of welfare (remember the manifestly racist ‘welfare queen driving the Cadillac of Ronnie Raygun fame?) anything compared to the corporate welfare scammers? Even in the same balpark? (Rhetorical question, of course)

  115. 147

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @141.

    I did too – and couldn’t finish reading. That is something so elusive to me – how can you do that? How do you get so twisted that that is somehow OK to do? It strikes me that our isolation – every nuclear family in their own little box, sealed in, cut off from intimate contact with community – and the weird stuff festers, especially if it happened to the parent/abuser themselves, seasoned with frustration and resentment and poverty.

    If it’s not clear from previous posts, I’m a doctor (among other things), and in my training, particularly at Harborview (a place I will always love deeply) when I had to take care of a particularly troubled or sociopathic or abusive patient in the middle of the night, away from my family, sleep-deprived, at the end of my coping skills – I’d try to remember that the wretched, foul-mouthed, self-destructive, abusive person demanding my attention was once someone’s baby – an innocent, a lovable, a lovely child – and that the way he/she became the awful person in front of me was very likely some unspeakable abuse, relentless and terrible, and that I had to do what I could to not perpetuate the cycle of violence.

  116. 148

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    So I have to say – I am awed and honored to be conversing with you guys.

    Steve, I think your sharing with us all your background somehow changed things here – somehow opened things up. I’m grateful.

    I would as goldy to pass on my email to whomever might be interested in putting together some time to get together in person with you guys – I’d love that.

    (Gotta go make dinner…)

  117. 149

    Steve spews:

    “Harborview (a place I will always love deeply)”

    Odd coincidence, I love that place too. By the time I was six, I knew that hospital like the back of my hand. My Mom had one of the first, possibly the first, open heart surgery performed there. That was probably the first time I ended up in the Seattle Youth Center, at about age five, maybe six, seeing as how there was nowhere else to go. heh- The first time I lost my freedom. I lived there a long time so it was obviously a long recovery period. Afterwards, she was always going back there for a day and I’d go with her. She’d be with the docs and I’d wander the hospital. We went there until she died and a lot of the staff got to know me and would greet me. Wonderful people. I absolutely loved the basement with all the exposed conduits, ducts and pipes. I spent a lot of my time down there. There was also a little lunch counter down there.

    That’s probably why I enjoy the design of hospitals so much. I get to work with all the wonderful department staff, trying to share their vision and understand their needs, often times trying to help them understand their needs. If it’s an existing hospital, I get to wander all over the place as I did as a kid, checking out the all of the conduits, ducts and pipes.

    I have an impressive list of hospitals in the western states under my belt, as well as a few significant research facilities. I’ve worked on every major hospital in Seattle. I know them like the back of my hand. But I’ve never worked on Harborview. I’ve never wanted to work on Harborview. I won’t even drive by Harborview. What it’s become I do not know. Evidently, that’s the way I want it.

  118. 150

    Steve spews:

    Maybe we could make things easy for Goldy by getting a list of commentors together and asking him to send an email addressed to everybody. Just a thought. And Goldy should get an invite himself.

  119. 151

    Steve spews:

    “Steve, I think your sharing with us…”

    Well, I suppose I’d rather talk about golf but, oh, what the hell!

  120. 152

    proud leftist spews:

    Steve and LS
    Let’s have a gathering. I didn’t have a hard youth, for the most part. No money, but I didn’t have insecurity. I learned about social justice from my minister father. He got kicked out of a church in Wenatchee because he thought the war in Viet Nam was wrong. Chelan County still, to this day, does not forgive such things. I spent the weekend moving him out of Idaho to an assisted home in Oregeon. He is worried that too many Republicans might surround him. I suggested that moving from rural Idaho to semirural Oregon probably will not result in a net increase of surrounding Republicans.

  121. 153

    Zotz sez: The microchip in Klynical's ass was transmitting 6... 6... 6... spews:

    Lib Sci: send email to Goldy and ask him to share your email with me. I’ll reply (with the others) and we’ll set something up.

    It’s time.

  122. 155

    Rujax! spews:

    I got my liberal cred from my mom. She had a tough time growing up as a daughter of Czech immigrants in Ballard. Gramps was pretty much a psycho…but a near-genius.

    Mom was all about social justice and looking out for those in society that can’t look out for themselves. She worked with the City Human Rights Commission in the 70’s…she was awesome. Died way too young.

  123. 156

    Steve spews:

    “I didn’t have a hard youth, for the most part.”

    I can tell some horror stories, sure, but please keep in mind that by the time I was 17 I was cruising the lakeshore drive in a Jag XK-120 roadster, playing in a hot band, had a girlfriend to die for, a good job, and was preparing for college. Kids are particularly resiliant. They just need a break and to be presented with opportunity. In other words, a social contract that provides appropriate safety nets. Few people you’ll ever meet believe in those things more than I do.

    One reason I posted what I did was that there are people here who I like and respect, and who I’d hoped might like and respect me, and who I know were very much put off by the way I went after Lost, and in this thread, Klynical and Puddy. I just hoped they might better understand why it is that I must do what I do and maybe at least cut me a little slack.

  124. 159

    Rujax! spews:

    @157…

    …we sure did and I don’t know what happened to your email address. I couldn’t find it on my hotmail. If you still have it send me a note.

    @158…

    …ohhhh yeahhhhh…true on both counts. Then I get to toss in my dad and HIS stuff…interesting stew.