This is the sort of stuff that happens along militarized borders. I’m just sayin’.
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The Israeli blockade of Gaza is unconscionable by any international standard.
“Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!”
President Reagan – June 12, 1987
As a native of Chula Vista, CA……south of San Diego down near the border, it reminds me of the stretch of border close to where I grew up.
Barriers can and will be breached by migratory humans, but they’re really good at stopping migratory wildlife. Keep them no good, low down, lazy, F’ing, Mexican desert tortoises out of our country!
We have a free (for employers) federal program that can check the immigration status of an employee. Every employer should be required to use it every time they hire someone.
We need to realize that we have a failed state to the south of us. As Mexican oil production falls off they will have a harder time paying their bills and conditions in Mexico will worsen. It’s not unreasonable to have boots on the border down there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.....uction.PNG
Comparing Israels situation with Gaza and the border we share with Mexico isn’t comparing apples and oranges. It’s comparing apples and chimpanzees, or apples and moon rocks.
Gaza has a political system run by known terrorist organization. Men and women strap bombs to themselves and blow up buses and cafes. Israel has behaved badly there, but not outside of their rights of sovereignty.
Mexico is a poor country whose citizens see a chance to illegally make money here. If my kids were hungry and that was the only option, I’m bound to say I’d likely do the same. Enforcement of employee documentation, border security and enforcement of our laws on those here now are all legitimate and needed. Some path to legal status would be helpful. I don’t honestly know what this would look like, but I would hate to see this mean those who played by the rules would be penalized for it while those who broke our laws are rewarded.
In any case, the comparison is simply ludicrous on its’ face.
In some areas, local governments have seeked to control immigrants by putting gates and walls around their communities, locking them at night and allowing access only through a gate policed by the authorities, who check ID’s, whether the person is legally in the area, and inquiring about what legitimate business they would have which could justify them being out on the streets after midnight. These are justified by claiming that the permanant residents were afraid that the migrant workers were a source of increased crime.
This could be Arizona, but it’s not. It’s Beijing. But the comparison with Arizona is a bit chilling.
Beijing starts gating, locking migrant villages
Hell Goldy,
A few weeks back a guy in his 20’s was shot and killed while collecting recyclables outside of Tacoma. You don’t need a border for that sort of thing to happen.
As I’ve mentioned before, and as is a well-known fact among military men, an unmanned wall hardly serves as a barrier at all.
In Dec. 1862, Union forces were thrown back with horrendous losses when they tried to assault the Confederates at Mary’s Heights at Fredericksburg. But just a few months later, with the bulk of Lee’s army facing Hooker’s army in the Wilderness area around Chancellorsville, Gen. Sedgewick was able to take the fortifications at Mary’s Heights with little difficulty from the token force left behind.
Similarly, the Confederates avoided capture of Petersburg fortifications only by the just-in-time arrival of the veterans of the Army of Northern Virginia (ANV), only minutes before the planned Union assault. And while the fortifications of Washington D.C. were the most extensive on the continent, Early’s attack in August 1863 came close to succeeding, except it was called off as veterans from the Army of the Potomac (AoP) were seen filing into the fortifications, having just arrived from the Petersburg/Richmond seige.
And no matter how strong the wall, there is no 10-foot wall that can’t be defeated by a 12-foot ladder. What you need is for the wall to be continuously manned by guards who are prepared to enforce the purpose behind the wall.
And that, my friends is the rub. Grabbing people climbing over a wall and arresting them works with one, two, perhaps three at a time. But if you get a determined rush by a few hundred, your only effective remedy is to start shooting. Are we prepared to shoot women and children stone cold dead just to prevent them from doing what our ancestors did – come to America to build a better life for themselves and their families?
I would hope not.
By working to improve conditions inside Mexico and making it harder for illegals to get steady work in America you remove the incentive for people to come here illegally.
Businesses like Stump Town Coffee and Askinosie Chocolate of Springfield MO who engage in direct trade with Latin America help to improve living conditions there and reduce pressure for people to come here. We need to work to get more businesses to use direct trade like Stump Town and Askinosie.
It’s not unreasonable to patrol your country’s borders. With a failing state like Mexico to the south of you, it’s unreasonable to not patrol that border.
People die of thirst year round in the desert trying to cross into America. They die of hyperthermia in the summer and hypothermia in the winter. Patrols along the Mexican border save far more lives than the take.
I thought we were talking about the Canadian border!
26 No, here we do the opposite. Our “landed gentry” put walls around their enclaves and close the gates at night. Then in the morning, they open them up and admit the people for whom they profess such virulent loathing to mow their lawns, haul their garbage, clean their toilets and change their babies’ diapers.
Michael @ 9: I’m in general agreement with you on these points.
What galls me is the fiction the Bush administration tried to sell that a border wall, essentially unmanned except through “high-tech security monitoring”, was going to accomplish anything. If we don’t have enough money to patrol our own borders, and we aren’t willing to pay more money for goods and services that don’t use undocumented labor, then a wall isn’t going to prevent illegal crossings. There are lots of ways to go around, over, and under a wall.
There are some simple solutions, but a lack of will among most of us to implement them. (1) vigerously prosecute employers who hire illegal workers; (2) improve the existing online verification system to make it more reliable, including expanding social security numbers to make them unique identifiers (currently Soc. Sec. numbers are recycled); (3) combine # 2 with a national identity card including pictures and thumbprints so employers (and the government) can confirm that the person is who they say they are, and their picture on the card matches the picture in the database.
Aside from that: I’ve always been intrigued by the irony that underpaid and unemployed workers are crossing the border to work in a prosperous nation that can’t afford to hire enough guards to prevent them from entering the country. Gee, if we could only find a way to pay some of those immigrants a nominal wage to prevent others from crossing from the Mexican side …. ;-)
@12
Sounds good to me!
yawn, show some pics of east LA and how the invasion is degrading our standard of living.
and if you commies were really “green” you wouldn’t encourage low carbon footprint people to flood into (and turn into) high carbon footprint north americans.
the fewer people living in industrialized nations, the lower the carbon footprint…right?
As always rhp6033 misses the boat.
Those communities are around Palm Beach and Palm Beach County. Who lives there? Ask Goldy. Many of them have middle east heritage and it’s not arab!
Puddy been there seen that!
Why are the leftists clamoring for an open border?
Goldy, you do realize that a secure border is one of the fundamental responsibilities of the federal govt, right?
Its certainly more a responsibility than say, entitlement programs…
Why do you hate America?
@17
Um… Beats me. Why don’t you find a leftist and ask them. I’m neither for open borders or a leftist.
Maxie at 17
I’m a leftist, at least by the wretched rightwing standards of today’s media. I’m not a leftist by the standards of what Americans actually think about particular policy issues. Oh, and I’m not for open borders, though I think a bit of realism should infuse the argument, rather than Teabagger horseshit.
@16
From what I overhear at Starbucks, there are more than a few Republicans in Gig Harbor that would love a system like what rhp6033 is quoting for our town. They’d have me questioned, of course, as I’m working class and I ride a bicycle for regular transport, not just for recreation. Never mind that I’m the 3rd generation of my family to live here.
@19
Not only would I be a leftist by Belo News standards, I ride a bicycle and proudly proclaim to be working class, so you you know I must be some sort of shifty anarchist.
Back in the real world I vote Republican about 25% of the time and spend a lot of time cooking, working in my yard, and hanging out with my nieces.
Speaking of Border Security, the Brits are refusing to let a couple Iroquois in, saying they don’t recognize their special passports, nor the waiver from the US State Department. Turns out, this is the Iroquois Nationals Lacrosse Team, supposed to be competing in the world championships this week. It’s a shame, the Iroquois helped invent the sport.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us+canada-10634044
evergreenrailfan…. the iriquois guys are stupid…what…every tribe now has its own passport…say they take a flight to Honduras…get of the plane. El Jefe at the airport is supposed to know the proper paperwork from random groups (even from other countries)
I thought Dems were the fans of good government. Allowing chaotic border control (recognizing random group passports) is the opposite of a well run government.
The Iroquois are a special case, at least a third of the Iroquois Nation(it’s a confederacy of 6 tribes) is in Canada, and at least one reservation is a thorn in the side of both the Canadian and American Governments. The border runs right through the Akwassasne Reservation, and both governments know smuggling goes on through it, because of it being a legal gray area.
The Iroquois Nationals, are the only Native American team of it’s kind in World Lacrosse, and I think it is right for them, because their nation helped invent the game. The passports are not new, they have been using these special ones for 30 years, the problem is only recently, with the tougher rules on travel documentation following 9/11. Although the Iroquois were at the center of one earlier border security conflict, the War of 1812, and they also were on the British side during the Revolution. Although an interesting thing, the Iroquois Confederacy gave a Ben Franklin some good ideas on forming a government.
Now as for indigenous people’s getting special treatment, not sure if they do it for passports, but New Zealand has several interesting set-asides for Maori, special electorates in Parliament(which they can choose to participate in or not, individual Maori can chose to be on the general electorate roll, and some do), and a couple all Maori sports teams, which is odd, because in the case of the All Blacks(New Zealand’s national Rugby Union team), there are Maori’s on it, and their Haka(war dance), has been an effective pre-game intimidation tool.(Works most of the time, but there have been some exceptions, like the 1995 Rugby World Cup, which South Africa beat NZ)