So it turns out, “Joe the Plumber” isn’t actually a licensed plumber. And… um… his name’s not “Joe.” Huh. Go figure.
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Sheeesh David–
Your name isn’t actually “Goldy”
His middle name is Joseph…hence Joe.
He never said he was a “licensed” plumber either. He works as a plumber.
Grasping at straws again to deflect from the real message…
Joe wants to own a business someday and EMPLOY PEOPLE…O-blah-blah wants to spread HIS wealth around. Some folks have a problem with the MOST LIBERAL US Senator spreading THEIR wealth around.
I don’t want O-blah-blah “spreading my wealth” around either.
I earned it.
I’m perfectly capable of spreading it around as I choose.
An increase in the national debt by 5 trillion dollars in eight years is not transferrance of wealth? Trickle down is dead. Reagan is dead. His policies live on, but we’re in the process of doing something about that. The class warfare refrain is another right wing, defense mechanism/headless chicken.
Joe the plumber is another in a long line of McCain’s jet crashing fuck ups. A real-time example, an exploded view of his flawed decision making process.
From Betsy’s page:
“Remember this guy didn’t seek out Barack Obama, Obama was doing a photo op in his neighborhood and Joe came out to ask a question. And now we’re at the point where journalists and liberal bloggers are swarming all over this guy’s personal background with an avidity that they haven’t shown about Barack Obama’s record and associates. Does he have a license? Is he registered to vote? Does he have tax liens? Is he related to Charles Keating? Is he a Republican?”
How dare anyone question The One.
“Joe” would actually get a tax cut under Obama. If McCain is so good, why must he campaign be dominated by big lies? Really — why does he lie even when he doesn’t have to? People aren’t stupid.
Mr. Cynical – I never said I was a licensed driver, but when I get in my car, I’d better be. Samuel Joseph is breaking the law by working as a plumber without a license.
And he didn’t say he “wants to own a business someday.” He said “I’m getting ready to buy a company that makes $250,000 to $280,000 a year.” Well, I’m getting ready to win the lottery. He was flat-out lying.
You’d think the Republicans, I mean, G.O.P.ers, would have learned in 1971 to keep plumbers out of presidential campaigns.
“Joe the plumber” is a fraud. He’s a registered Republican and self-described “conservative” who pretends to be an “independent.” He’s not buying the business and has no plans to. He makes $40,000 a year, not over $250,000. He’s a tax cheat and deadbeat who owes Ohio unpaid taxes. Above all, he’s not a plumber or even an apprentice — he’s a dropout from a plumbing apprenticeship. Which means he’s breaking the law by working without a license, and he’s cheating the customers to whom he represents himself as a qualified plumber. And his name isn’t even “Joe.”
This guy typifies how Republicans operate. They do whatever they want, and to hell with laws and regulations. They don’t pay taxes. They rip off consumers. They lie and cheat.
There’s no doubt this guy was “salted,” i.e. he was a plant who tried to set up Obama. The whole thing was scripted in advance. And the script is a fraud perpetrated on the debate audience by the dishonest GOP candidate.
Like all the GOP’s frauds, it backfired on them. Incredibly, these people seem to think they won’t be caught, or if they are, it doesn’t matter. They don’t vet anyone, and when the people they pal around with turn out to be liars and scofflaws, they blame the media for exposing the lies in their propaganda. What Sam Not A Plumber actually proves is that McSame is more of the same. Like Sam, McSame is a fraud from start to finish.
@5
Obama came to Joe, not the other way around. Joe asked a legitimate question. Joe dared to question The One and make him look like a socialist asshole.
Right, that’s it Joe must be investigated and hounded into oblivion. They’ve done more investigations into Joe the Plumber in 24 hours than they’ve done on Barack Obama in two years . . .
So this Sam was the darling of the wingnuts.
Figures. I personally never heard of him until McSame and Obama talked about him in the debate.
And he made shit up to confront Obama with a “tough question”.
Typical wingnut hero.
@6
Riiiight. Karl Rove salted 250,000 republican operatives into every neighborhood in Ohio, just waiting for Obama to drop by.
Get under your sink and take a look , Joe isn’t a plumber , he’s that bald headed guy on the sink cleanser bottle . Old Mr. Clean .
Like obama keeps preaching, talk about the issues and not distractions.
Every democrat knows how damaging the statement from obama, “spread the wealth” is.
So they have to distract from the real issue and start distracting with the personal life of joe.
If only obama was about truly about change and not continuing the bush plan of distractions.
How do the obama supporters feel about obama taxing people to spread the wealth around.
I see ylb is afraid to discuss the comment made by obama, and instead attack joe.
How typical.
Hey YLB, how do you feel about obama admitting he wants to tax people so he can spread the wealth?
Good distraction rabbit.
Even you are afraid to talk about obama wanting to spread the wealth and instead attack the plumber.
Issues, not distractions.
Jeeezzz,
Obama said what he said,
He wants to redistribute wealth by taking from those who make wealth to those who have less, for whatever reason. Plain and simple. A proposition that has proven itself historically not to work, and in fact, to hurt almost all who live under it — oh, except those who administer it…
@6 Roger, you are so blindly far out in left field you have no perspective of any kind. You can’t even admit that a middle name is a name…
From Politico:
Defending Joe
In his prepared remarks for a rally in Florida, McCain blames Obama and the media for the sudden surge of interest in Joe Wurzelbacher.
To defend the media: This seems a little unfair. McCain was the one who made the debate about Joe (and, on Letterman, jokingly apologized to him.) On debate night, McCain’s aides were cheerfully talking about how Joe would be dominating the morning shows the next day (though they weren’t doing his booking). Nor has the Obama campaign been shown to be digging up details on Joe, which has come largely from DailyKos diaries and the Toledo Blade.
From McCain’s remarks:
I wonder how many of “Joe’s” customers have have found out the hard way if he knows the Three Laws of Plumbing.
Here’s a hint: if you turn on the left faucet valve and cold water comes out, DON’T USE THE TOILET!
Then again…..does the man actually have any such customers? Has he ever held a wrench in his entire life? Inquiring minds want to know.
Joe set up his question with a lie. He works for a plumbing company which employs two people–him and the owner. The owner is the only licensed plumber. Joe is a scofflaw plumber and a tax evader. He probably was listening to Rush Limbaugh and doing his morning chants of Mega-dittos Rush, Mega-dittos! When surprise: there’s Obama in the neighborhood and went out to earn himself some conservative chops getting in the face of that uppity…. and spewing all tghe Rush crap he could remember. And in doing so revealed himself to be just another windbag Republican conservative hypocrite.
Fuck him. And fuck John McCain. A war criminal who earned his conservative chops bombing Vietnamese civilians and killing babies.
9 At this point, considering the Secret Service was found out to be spying on candidates earlier this year and reporting their observations to the White House, it’s not entirely inconceivable that the big dudes in the dark suits who are right up close and personal with Obama wherever he goes might have subtly “maneuvered” him close enough to where “Joe” would have attracted his attention.
18
Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they are NOT out to get ya.
15 McCain’s right: America became a great nation by creating wealth…not the illusion thereof.
The America of the Republicans “redistributes” wealth with gleeful zeal, in one direction: upwards.
20
Redistributes? You mean “spreads the wealth around” the top 10% don’t you?
“Blog Reader”
Obviously, you’re one of those “fuck the troops” types that show up to embarrass actual liberals and progressives. When the righties start their “liberals hate the troops” tirade, you’re the folks they point to as evidence.
Senator McCain is unacceptable as President because of his apparent lack of judgement (as evidenced by his choice of running mate), his temperament, and his position on issues.
Many of the regular posters on this blog, myself included, have served in the military. Since that apparently qualifies us as “war criminals” in your eyes, perhaps you’d rather not associate with us.
While Senator McCain was certainly not the best pilot the Navy had, the one thing that even liberals like myself and the others here will grant him is that he did volunteer for the military, was willing to put his life in jeopardy, and served honorably.
I’ll take my cue from Senator Obama (the candidate that I’m supporting) in his attitude towards Senator McCain’s service. You are welcome to head back over to Mr. Calero and his party.
Senator McCain presents himself as being skillful at identifying and cutting fat and waste from military budgets, and at least implies that trying to do this of late has been impaired by the Bush Administration’s wanton use of the federal budget to funnel cash into the pockets of its friends.
I would like to hope that, should he not be elected President next month, Senator McCain will return to his committee seat, take out his pencil and have at it.
22
“Obviously, you’re one of those “fuck the troops” types that show up to embarrass actual liberals and progressives. When the righties start their “liberals hate the troops” tirade, you’re the folks they point to as evidence.”
Fuck the righties. their opinion means nothing to me.
Since that apparently qualifies us as “war criminals” in your eyes, perhaps you’d rather not associate with us.
Where do you get the “us” shit. Respond to what I write instead of adding everything you think I may have meant into the conversation.
Actually “I’m not fuck the troops at all.” My father and uncle served in WW2. I’m a veteran-1965-1967. I have two brothers who are veterans and a third brother currently in the Army over twenty years. He’s been to Iraq twice so far. All of us volunteered.
Condemning McCain for dropping bombs on a civilian population and killing babies which is a war crime under anyone’s definition is hardly inappropriate. Of course, some folks like you, find that behavior heroic. Bush is bombing civilian populations and killing babies in Iraq and Afghanistan with McCain’s very strong support and that is behavior that McCain will continue if elected-perhaps adding a couple more countries to his target list.
Honorable and heroic behavior? I don’t think so.
And you sir-are welcome to go fuck a goat.
22
I guess I should really reply to your simple reasoning with a simple response.
One can be in the military and be a good soldier without being a war criminal. But it is a damn difficult thing to do. I attended the recent “winter soldier” event at which Iraq vets testified about their experiences in the Iraq war. Frankly they were betrayed and exploited by their President and those who support his policies-like McCain.
As usual liberals play the man and not the ball. Your policies are immoral and unethical so instead of defending Robin Hood policies you attack the potential victim of your thefts. In plain English ‘redistribution of wealth’ is armed robbery, using tax law as the gun. I know it makes effete whining liberals mad when a real American simply asks to be left alone to pay the costs and accrue the rewards of his actions. I know that the very idea of someone not relying cradle to grave on incompetent government beauracrats for every breath taken strikes at the very core of your self importance. I know competence terrifies you because someone might actually expect competence from you. Here’s the deal though. I earned it, it’s mine to keep and you have no ethical or moral right to ‘redistribute’ it.
@26 “I earned it, it’s mine to keep and you have no ethical or moral right to ‘redistribute’ it.”
In three weeks we’re going to take everything you own and then we’re going to ‘redistribute’ it to the islamobrownpeoplecommiefascists. The news isn’t all bad for you. After all, you get to keep your Dino Rossi blowup doll.
Great job in confirming everything I wrote, Steve! You have no answer to the actual argument so you attack the person. You can’t argue the position so you make up some inane islamo…etc that makes no sense in any context and imply homosexuality. Where did you study logic Steve, the wet paper bag correspondence course? I forgot, liberals don’t understand concepts like logic, or economics, or history, or anything much really except abuse and hysteria.
Jeff Gannon, please pick up the white courtesy phone……
Jeff Gannon, please pick up the white courtesy phone……
@28 “You have no answer to the actual argument”
Argument? From you? All you did was whine. Christ, you America-hating goatfuckers are stupid.
@30
Internet tuff guy……..
No matter how the fringe left, and MSM try to discredit Joe, Obama still responded…..
What’s funny is that his O’ness had a moment of honesty. I give him credit for answering from the heart. BUT THE MESSAGE IS CLEAR…Obama plans to spread the wealth around…..
And now that he let the horse is out of the barn, all the willing disciples are scrambling to put the truth (horse) back in.
Any and all doubts about whether or not the MSM is biases is completely over…..
Via the MSM, we now know more about “Joe” in 48 hours than we do about William Ayres in 24 months…. Ditto Rezko, Ditto Rev Wright.
Oh and Joe Biden? 4 letters man…..not 3, 4 letters J-O-B-S..
@31 “@30 Internet tuff guy…”
@31 It doesn’t take a “tuff guy” to call out your bullshit, troll. Learn to live with it, goatfucker.
@33
I didn’t see where you called out anything junior…
but keep it up. you’re tough
@34 “you’re tough”
And you’re a stupid goatfucker.
@35 soooo tough. WOW
@36 Sooooo stupid. WOW
“Blog Reader”
an interesting comment from someone that also claims:
And since you have no evidence that Senator McCain is guilty of knowingly “dropping bombs on a civilian population and killing babies” I suggest that you speak to your father and brothers about the tragedy (and crime) that military targets are often placed in civilian areas.
The REPUBLICANS are the folks that feel a need to smear their opponents. Swift-boating is a reprehensible tactic, and one that we have no need to use. It brings us down to their “win at all costs” level.
Your calling Senator McCain a “war criminal” is the equivalent of calling Senator Obama a “terrorist”.
One reason I’ve supported Senator Obama from the start is that he has repeatedly denounced that kind of campaigning. He has (and will continue to) forcefully answer the smears, but will not stoop to that level himself.
Since we expect (and demand) that the few rational people over in the Republican Party denounce hate speech, we must not tolerate it in our own ranks.
Senator McCain:
1. is a near-clone of President Bush in both foriegn and domestic policies.
2. has shown amazingly poor judgement in many areas of his campaign, most especially in the selection of his running mate.
3. has campaigned in a disgraceful and divisive manner, with the effect of further dividing the country.
4. has allowed his surrogates to further enflame the far-right, to the effect that some of his supporters now feel free to appeal to racism, spread obvious lies about Senator Obama’s religion and background.
Hopefully, this is the result of a tired man, allowing his handlers to lead him in ways that, down in his heart, he knows are unacceptable.
But whether or not Senator McCain understands that that form of campaigning is unacceptable, certainly we know that it is.
We have plenty of reasons to vote against Senator McCain without stooping to demonizing the man. (Even better, we have plenty of reasons to vote for Senator Obama.)
And by “we”, I mean everyone truly supporting Senator Obama. Why can I say that? Because my candidate, Senator Barack Obama, has repeatedly said so, and I believe him.
And still no answer to the, yes, argument. Liberals like to whine so much they don’t actually recognize an argument when they see one. In simple terms so that even left wingers might be able to understand here goes. If you take something someone else owns without owner permission that is stealing. Everyone understands this if it’s a mugger on the street or a car thief. If the government takes something I own, like my income, without constitutional authority or my consent that too is stealing. The constitution nowhere gives the federal government authority to “spread the wealth”. In fact it expressly forbids it in the takings clause. I had to use words of more than one syllable so most of the people who disagree with me on this blog may have to buy a dictionary. Or steal one, as that seems to be your preference. So go ahead Steve or one of the other 12 year olds. Say fag or goatfucker and avoid the argument you don’t possess the mental acuity to understand never mind contest.
Why do Republicans raise money for Al Qaida and the Taliban?
http://www.associatedcontent.c.....ander.html
Why do Republicans hate America so much?
@39 It will be our pleasure to redistribute your wealth to poor brown people. While this is going on, you’ll be residing in Gitmo, enjoying aqua-therapy sessions administered by a big brown guy who goes by the name, “Azim”.
“Lost”
We could go back and forth about how the government shouldn’t make you pay taxes, or doesn’t have the right to use that tax money in ways that benefits anyone but you.
But rather than bother with that, I’m simply going to quote what the Constitution has to say about it.
First, on whether the federal government has the right to make you pay taxes:
Next, on whether the Constitution supports using that money to help others, even if you don’t want to:
I realize that you right-wing types consider the Constitution to be “just a scrap of paper“, but we liberals actually respect it.
To the extent that I lowered myself to insults I am sorry. I am terrified by an Obama presidency and this caused me to ignore my better judgement. There are fundamental things I find frightening about an Obama presidency. He is someone who allies himself with those with no love for this country, including his own wife and pastor of 20 years. He is socialist, which has never worked anywhere it has been tried. He is untinterested in performing the jobs the public trusted him and paid him to do in Illinois or in the United States Senate and has spent his entire public career chasing the next office. If you don’t believe me look up the facts for God’s sake.
Havinig said that, I don’t dispute federal authority to levy taxes. The government must be paid for and performs certain constitutional duties that cost money. We live in a representative democracy that means we all compromise, sometimes, and pay for what we would not individually have chosen to.
The clause quoted above in the preamble is called the elastic clause, usually with some derision. It is not a blanket grant for the federal government to do as it sees fit. The people who wrote our Constitution were very afraid of a too powerful government. Is it reasonable to suppose they meant the elastic clause to negate the rest of the document? To be sure FDR, Lyndon Johnson, and unfortunately our current president have seen it to do so. In fact the body of the actual Constitution which follows listing all of the things our government can legally do. This is very limited, and in fact most of the acitivities of modern government fall outside of that authorization, based on that ill considered elastic clause. However we don’t still allow slavery or legalized segragation, or send Native American children to Normal Schools. Historic wrongs should not be hallowed by tradition and can be changed when seen to be wrong.
No matter how a reasonable person looks at it taking money from citizens to support other citizens is wrong. It is the act of a tyrant, not a democratically elected executive. To provide for common benefits like roads and emergency services and the like is defensible. To provide for a standing army to defend the country is defensible. Taking my money or Joe the Plumbers or anyones to support another citizen is theft by force. There is no other morally or Constitutionally accurate term.
More than that, there is no ethical argument for taking away from a person his or her right to learn from their own mistakes. Do you raise your children without consequence for bad decisions? Of course not, you’d be raising psychopaths. Do you perform your job without consequences for poor judgement? Of course not, you’d be unemployed. Why do you think that running a society without the right and duy to accept the consequences of bad luck or poor decisions is any better? It is social engineering with the end result being a weak incompetent and mentally infantile population.
I hope that the more thoughtful readers of this blog will at least consider that opposite opinions can be well considered. Even if you disagree with me as vehemently as I do with you I hope that whoever wins the presidency we can conduct ourselves with respect and civility. I don’t believe it, based on past experience from radicals on both sides of the ideological fence, but I do hope it.
Don’t take it personally john. It’s just steve (the goat sex expert) and one of his sockpuppets.
Just think, if mcsame was bombing america he could have been one of obamas friends in the neighborhood.
Funny how the hate america crowd only hates people that bomb other countries.
Steve is one of the resident idiots.
Just laugh at him, most here do since bibigoober changed his name to steve.
Steve getting punked yet again.
Damn steve, I keep telling you. ONLY talk about goat sex, you’re an expert.
There’s no doubt this guy was “salted,” i.e. he was a plant who tried to set up Obama. The whole thing was scripted in advance. And the script is a fraud perpetrated on the debate audience by the dishonest GOP candidate.
How so? Obama came to JOE’S house (and yes, that is his MIDDLE name). Obama came politicking and one of the peasants dared to challenge him. For that high crime, this simple plumber gets more vetting than domestic terrorist William Ayers.
And liberal claim Republicans are the ones trying to stifle free speech! What a bunch of nutjobs you are!
Damn good thing that the rovian mind meld worked so well as to direct obama up to the right house.
Do you have any proof rabbit or is this just a made up fantasy of yours? Link?
But how do you feel about obama being honest and wanting to spread the wealth? Or do you think that was bush splicing his tapes of obama together?