Saturday morning quarterback

[NWPT48]Monday morning Judge Bridges will deliver a ruling denying Dino Rossi’s petition to set aside the results of the gubernatorial election. I say this with unwavering confidence, secure in the knowledge that both statute and case law are firmly on Governor Gregoire’s side.

The only real suspense is over the character of the editorial comments in which he will couch his decision. Will he admonish elections officials for sloppy work? Will he scold Rossi’s attorneys for making unsubstantiated claims? Will he defend his ruling by pleading he was handcuffed by the statute, or will he defend the legislative pragmatism, embodied in statute, that prefers finality over certainty?

Or will he merely apply the law to the evidence and leave the editorializing to editorialists like me?

I plan to do a more complete trial wrap-up, but jet-lagged and TVW-feed-addled, I’m afraid those thoughts will have to wait until later this weekend to find their words. In the meanwhile, I’d just like to express the sincere sentiment that whatever the ruling, I can’t wait for the day this goddamn election contest is over and done with. And unfortunately, I’m guessing Monday ain’t it.

Comments

  1. 1

    Thomas Trainwinder spews:

    He will talk about the weight of the decision – and what awaits the Supreme Court.

    He will reiterate his impression of both counsels.

    He will admire the petitioner’s hard work in furthering their case — stating he knows that they ferverntly believe in their position and have admirably presented such.

    He will throw out the reduction analysis as unsubstantiated — noting that treating the geography of a voter is shown to be no more a predictor than sex, age, hair color, etc.

    He will say that regardless of errors that exceed the margin (which boths sides agree), the law bounds him to reject the claim based on insufficient evidence that the illegal votes produced an inaccurate victor.

    He will thank both attorneys for their late nights and early mornings…their professionalism and will let them know he’ll watch what happens in Olympia.

  2. 3

    righton spews:

    Yeah both guys will lose readers; this thing like an OJ trial to pull in political wonks.

  3. 4

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Goldy can only hope he loses Don/Alan/DubyaSux/That Prick/priscilla/Thomas/the other 37 identities of one person carrying on regular conversations with him/herself!!!!

    Seriously, I have enjoyed the debate. Goldy, I appreciate all the time and energy you have put into this. Whether or not you are in some way compensated (directly or INDIRECTLY, monetarily or otherwise) is immaterial here.

    When this is over, things will change for Stefan and Goldy. I believe the Blogger in the political minority has some huge advantages. Stefan has an excellent group of contributors. If Goldy wants to survive in any credible matter…he needs the same.

    What will be the next “crisis of the year”???
    Something will come along.
    I think there are enough National Blogs…more than enough.
    I think if Goldy and Stefan stick to State and local issues, they will continue to have plenty of folks involved.
    Frankly, I think both of them have amazingly kept this going without compensation….

    It’s appreciated….hopefully by all.

    dj is the most impressive of the LEFTIST PINHEADS. Now before you get all swollen with pride dj, keep in mind the other LEFTIST PINHEADS are dumb….and stupid too!! It’s like saying Joan Rivers is beautiful when standing with a whole herd of gnomes! Frankly, having a sense of humor, intelligence and the ability to have fun is endearing. Goldy fits that mold too…to a slightly lesser extent (a smidgeon!).

    The rest of you cocksuckers can suck my hemmorhoids!

  4. 6

    Chuck spews:

    Goldy, your lame assed poll should have more acuratly read “Who will win if the Republicans are sucessful in the election contest lawsuit”.
    The obvious answer would have been the wonderful citizens of the state of Washington!

  5. 7

    Priscilla spews:

    @2, HorsesAss won’t lose readers because the trolls will always be here and we will always entertain ourselves bashing them, but Stefan’s eyeballs will drop like a rock after his credibility goes down the tubes and he’s left within nothing to spew about. Oh, he’ll diss on the judge (and Dave Postman) for a while, but except for a few hard-core righties, nobody will pay any attention.

  6. 8

    Priscilla spews:

    Reply to 4

    Sitting on my fat ass at BIAW all day cranking $100 bills through Mr. Cynical’s washing machine would give me hemorrhoids, too.

  7. 9

    Priscilla spews:

    The trouble with all you people voting for Davis Wright Tremaine in the Lame-Ass Poll is that you assume the Freeloader Party which actually pay its legal bills. When the GOP lawyers get stiffed they will have nobody to blame but themselves. They knew who they were dealing with.

  8. 10

    mickh spews:

    You see pictures of Judge Bridges scratching his head during the trial to throw out the last governors election in Washington State. I haven’t followed the trial cover to cover but I have checked in on TVW on cable TV from time to time, read about it in the paper, listened to the BS on the radio Talk Shows and checked out some BLOGS.

    To me in the end it was as Jenny Durkan said, “Not a case of fraud…not a case of ballot stuffing…not a case of a stolen election…” As for me it was like Seinfeld… THIS WAS A CASE ABOUT NOTHING!!!

  9. 11

    zip spews:

    If Goldy can grow beyond “preaching to the choir” on all the usual lefty hot buttons (dominionists taking over the country, Bush hate, any social security reform is evil, etc.) he may be able to keep this site lively and informative. However, I doubt that will happen because Goldy has only shown an abilty to provide informative posts on the election contest and nothing more. After Mondays ruling, he will have nothing left but tired old MoveOn talking points.

    Priscilla, maybe you will grow up and quit chanaing your name after the readership of this site plummets and you discover that you are conversing (or playing) with yourself.

  10. 12

    Baynative spews:

    I enjoyed DNC attorney Jenny Durkan saying in her closing statement that, “there has never been a single issue of voter fraud proven”, while the news break had just shown the story about two King County voters being sentenced for double voting by using dead person absentee ballots.

  11. 13

    Stephan Starsky spews:

    No fraud? What about the dead people voting? The felons?

    BTW, please note that SP threads have gone crazy. 12 comments here, 104 on SP. ha ha ha

  12. 14

    spews:

    baynative and starsky–
    that’s not an accurate quote of Durkan. She did not use the word voter. And in any case, voter fraud has nothing to do with the court case. You prosecute them as individuals.

  13. 15

    zapporo spews:

    Goldy –

    I would expect the opposite. If Judge Bridges says “get bent” to the Republicans, then this state truly has no meaningful recourse for election discrepancies. Basically, no matter how badly you run the election, no matter the overall magnitude of errors and omissions can be estimated and is far greater than the margin of victory, you have no recourse.

    Once you accept that level of illogic, the Republicans will shortly own this state. There are at least a 1000 different ways to appeal to moderate voters by simply stating the facts, much less putting spin to this.

    It would be one thing to say, hey, we missed a few votes during the first recount, but everything was done to the standard of the law, we can account for every vote, and Candidate X truly lost. That is so far from actual events as to be laughable. Even Democrat witnesses have openly admitted in court that the could not say with any certainty who really won the election. That, I think, is a key acknowledgement. The plaintiff clearly deserves equitable relief and the state deserves meaningful election challenge laws. We need to be able to say with certainty who won an election and people need to be able to trust those results. As of now, we have neither.

    Therefore, it’s likely that Judge Bridges will rule in favor of the Republicans. That’s the worst scenario for Democrats because that gives the Republicans the mantle of legitimacy during the appeal process. And if Judge Bridges has done his work as carefully as I think he has, he will likely be upheld upon appeal.

  14. 16

    dj spews:

    Baynative @ 12

    “I enjoyed DNC attorney Jenny Durkan saying in her closing statement that, “there has never been a single issue of voter fraud proven”, while the news break had just shown the story about two King County voters being sentenced for double voting by using dead person absentee ballots.”

    Nope. This is not what she said. Here is a transcription of the entire sentence (from TVW audio around 5:15:00): We do not believe that petitioners have proven by even a preponderance of the evidence that a single, a single, illegal vote was ever cast for Governor Gregoire, which is what they have to show under statute.

    Her point isn’t that there were no illegal votes. In fact, she went on to discuss that the Dems had proven 4 illegal votes for Rossi and one for Bennett (at the level of clear and convincing). No . . . the point is that the GOP legal team did not prove who any of the illegal voters actually voted for.

    Incidentally, of the two people who were convicted of voting for a dead spouse, one of them has openly admitted casting the spouse’s vote for Rossi. I’ve not seen any reports on who the other person voted for.

  15. 17

    Goldy spews:

    BM @2,

    I expect my traffic to drop somewhat from its current highs after the election contest, but plateau at a level slightly above where it was before the surge of interest. That has been the pattern all along.

  16. 18

    Scott spews:

    Republicans – mantle of legitimacy? PLEEEEEASE! Republicans can’t even get as close as a mantle to anything remotely related to legitimacy. You guys are about as legit as Strom Thurmond’s black daughter!

  17. 19

    dj spews:

    Starsky @ 13

    “No fraud? What about the dead people voting? The felons?”

    What are you, some kind of idiot??? Those are illegal votes, and a few of them might even meet the legal definition of fraud, but the certainly do not constitute election fraud.

    BTW: are you suggesting that if Rossi won the hand recount, we could use the dead and felon votes to overthrow Rossi?

  18. 20

    Priscilla spews:

    Speaking of growing up, you should worry about yourself, Zip. For starters, instead of posting bullshit like “any social security reform is evil,” try telling the truth. Most second graders can do it, why not you? What we’re against is gutting Social Security by diverting two-thirds of SS taxes to private accounts and borrowing trillions of dollars to pay benefits. You, Bush, and all the other Republican liars who call that “reform” are indeed “evil.”

  19. 21

    danw spews:

    SS @13 (Interesting initials, same as the Snarks, and a fine group of propogandists)

    Yeah I went over there, they are conjuring up all sorts of Mojo,” we proved fraud, if you don’t believe it,,move to Cuba.”
    It will be even busier Monday when I go back to see the Windmill coming crashing down. In other words, a Nice “Circle jerk” going on.

    Can’t wait to see who they blame on Monday…MSM, Activist Judges, Unions, Chris Vance. It’ll be fun.

  20. 22

    Priscilla spews:

    zapporo @ 15

    “Basically, no matter how badly you run the election, no matter the overall magnitude of errors and omissions can be estimated and is far greater than the margin of victory, you have no recourse.”

    Yeah, that’s the situation we’re stuck with in Ohio, zappidy-doo-dah. Even worse, there’s nothing we can do about that lying, bullying, partisan piece of shit Ken Blackwell. He’s STILL running elections in Ohio even after the circus he ran last November and stealing another presidential election for the Fascist Party.

  21. 23

    Priscilla spews:

    dj @ 16, the other person didn’t say who she cast her husband’s ballot for. One may surmise that was also a Rossi vote and she was smart enough to not hurt “the cause” by throwing more fuel on the fire.

  22. 24

    Priscilla spews:

    It sure is going to be boring on this blog after all the Rossi trolls crawl back into their holes.

  23. 25

    danw spews:

    Priscilla;
    Excellent posting today, but I have found out it is like talking to Rush Limbaugh with these folks. It is a waste of breath.

    I think after this is over we should look at this site as a way to come together as Democrats, and choose how to get the message out about hese evil bastards…..Bush does more worth impeachment in a weekend than Clinton ever did. We need to target the Lockstep congressmen who vote with him. That is how we need to attack the midterms.

  24. 26

    Priscilla spews:

    Reply to 21

    They’ll blame everybody but themselves. Don’t hold your breath waiting for a righty to take “personal responsibility” for anything. Their shtick is avoiding responsibility for all the messes they’ve made.

  25. 27

    Priscilla spews:

    Reply to 25

    “It is a waste of breath.”

    Yes, but it’s like poking a dead rat with a stick, there’s satisfaction in it.

  26. 28

    dj spews:

    zapporo @ 15

    “If Judge Bridges says “get bent” to the Republicans, then this state truly has no meaningful recourse for election discrepancies. Basically, no matter how badly you run the election, no matter the overall magnitude of errors and omissions can be estimated and is far greater than the margin of victory, you have no recourse.”

    No. . . what it means is exactly what the law says: you have to prove to which candidate an illegal vote went. The GOP legal team could have done so, but they choose not to. They were hoping to rely on statistical methods using illegal votes found primarily in King County. The Dems blind-sided them by finding an offsetting number of illegal votes in pro-Rossi counties. The Dems also proved 4 Rossi illegal votes with certainty. That was a brilliant strategy, because these 4 identified votes wipe out about 20 “statistically apportioned” felon votes on the GOP list.

    “It would be one thing to say, hey, we missed a few votes during the first recount, but everything was done to the standard of the law, we can account for every vote, and Candidate X truly lost. That is so far from actual events as to be laughable.”

    Naaaaa . . . you listen to too much GOP spin. The error rate was low and typical (it certainly would be nice to do better, though). The illegal votes largely canceled each other out (as far as anyone can tell). There is no evidence that the illegal votes changed the election, and there is no evidence that the election was not held to the standards of law.

    “The plaintiff clearly deserves equitable relief and the state deserves meaningful election challenge laws. We need to be able to say with certainty who won an election and people need to be able to trust those results.”

    Rossi deserves relief if he can proved he won the election. Otherwise, the count is the count, and Rossi lost. The law provides certainty on who won the election. If you don’t like the laws, work to change them. But your court-“of-the-people”-Monday-morning-quarterbacking bullshit doesn’t work.

    Find some productive way of dissipating your anger, zapporo—it is clouding your judgment.

  27. 30

    pbj spews:

    But what about the US Supreme Court appeal referecning Bush V Gore in 2000 where it was held that counties all must use the same standard with regards to canvassing? Clearly King County used its own standard that was different from the rest of the state.

  28. 31

    JDB spews:

    pbj:

    Actually, the standard for canvasing a vote is set by state statute (in a law passed after the Florida catastrophe, supported by Dino Rossi), and no one accuses King County of not following that standard. This rule only stands for determining voter intent on unclear ballots.

  29. 32

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    Yeah, that’s the situation we’re stuck with in Ohio, zappidy-doo-dah. Even worse, there’s nothing we can do about that lying, bullying, partisan piece of shit Ken Blackwell. He’s STILL running elections in Ohio even after the circus he ran last November and stealing another presidential election for the Fascist Party. -Comment by Priscilla— 6/4/05 @ 2:26 pm

    Dear NumbNuts,

    What Didn’t Happen In Ohio

    And please, little NumNuts, please NOTE the header on the piece:
    The best progressive insight and action. All day.

    NumbNuts, it’s time to trade your Kool-aid for some Grape Nuts – you seem to be as constipated as your tired, worn out arguments.

  30. 33

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    Yeah, that’s the situation we’re stuck with in Ohio, zappidy-doo-dah. Even worse, there’s nothing we can do about that lying, bullying, partisan piece of shit Ken Blackwell. He’s STILL running elections in Ohio even after the circus he ran last November and stealing another presidential election for the Fascist Party. -Comment by Priscilla— 6/4/05 @ 2:26 pm

    Dear NumbNuts,

    What Didn’t Happen In Ohio

    And please, little NumbNuts, please NOTE the header on the piece:
    The best progressive insight and action. All day.

    NumbNuts, it’s time to trade your Kool-aid for some Grape Nuts – you seem to be as constip*ted as your tired, worn out arguements.

  31. 34

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    Yeah, that’s the situation we’re stuck with in Ohio, zappidy-doo-dah. Even worse, there’s nothing we can do about that lying, bullying, partisan piece of shit Ken Blackwell. He’s STILL running elections in Ohio even after the circus he ran last November and stealing another presidential election for the F*scist Party. -Comment by Priscilla— 6/4/05 @ 2:26 pm

    Dear NumbNuts,

    What Didn’t Happen In Ohio

    And please, little NumbNuts, please NOTE the header on the piece:
    The best progressive insight and action. All day.

    NumbNuts, it’s time to trade your Kool-aid for some Grape Nuts – you seem to be as constip*ted as your tired, worn out arguments.

  32. 35

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    Yeah, that’s the situation we’re stuck with in Ohio, zappidy-doo-dah. Even worse, there’s nothing we can do about that lying, bullying, partisan piece of shit Ken Blackwell. He’s STILL running elections in Ohio even after the circus he ran last November and stealing another presidential election for the F*scist Party. -Comment by Priscilla— 6/4/05 @ 2:26 pm

    Dear NumbNuts,

    What Didn’t Happen In Ohio

    And please, little NumbNuts, please, NOTE the header on the piece:
    The best progressive insight and action. All day.

    NumbNuts, it’s time to trade your Kool-Aid for some Grape-Nuts – you seem to be as constip*ted as your tired, worn out arguments.

  33. 36

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    Yeah, that’s the situation we’re stuck with in Ohio, zappidy-doo-dah. Even worse, there’s nothing we can do about that lying, bullying, partisan piece of shit Ken Blackwell. He’s STILL running elections in Ohio even after the circus he ran last November and stealing another presidential election for the F*scist Party. -Comment by Priscilla— 6/4/05 @ 2:26 pm

    Dear NumbNuts/

    What Didn’t Happen In Ohio

    And please, little NumbNuts, please NOTE the header on the piece:
    The best progressive insight and action. All day.

  34. 37

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    NumbNuts, it’s time to trade your Kool-Aid for some Grape Nuts – you seem to be as constip*ted as your tired, worn out arguments.

  35. 38

    WingDingALings @ it again spews:

    Lib’s pet ASS @ previous

    So, absent the emergence of true polling methodology experts screaming theft, we may reasonably conclude that no evil genius rigged the results. Instead, what we experienced was probably an amalgam of system failings, miscalculations, incompetence, and, in some cases, the variably successful exertions of biased election officials.

    What a laugh! This “progressive” alleges what the WSRP is bloviating about here in WA except of course coming to a different conclusion!

    Ironies upon ironies.

  36. 39

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    Twirly, twirly, spin, spin, babe.

    Can you regressive progressives shut up now about Ohio and your precious exit polls?

    On another note, Thank you, thank you, thank you, God for giving us Howard Dean as DNC chair.

    God is Great!
    God is Keen!
    With a smile His on face
    He gave them Dean!

  37. 40

    WingDingALings @ it again spews:

    More from the same article.

    She begins by acknowledging her own concerns with the situation in Ohio. “I believe your election was inexcusably riggable and may well have been rigged,” writes Liddle. “It was also inexcusably unauditable. I am convinced that there was real and massive voter suppression in Ohio, and that it was probably deliberate. I think the recount in Ohio was a sham, and the subversion of the recount is in itself suggestive of coverup of fraud. I think Kenneth Blackwell should be jailed.

    Thanks, Proud ASS!

  38. 41

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    Twirly, twirly, spin, spin!
    Dear NumbNuts2:

    From the author:
    Back in January, I wrote a piece for TomPaine.com questioning widely circulated claims that the election in Ohio had been stolen. I had done some poking around, anticipating that at least some of the frightening anecdotes filling our mail boxes and raging on talk radio would be borne out. In spot checks on a few popular fraud anecdotes, I found credible alternative explanations such as incompetence, structural problems, politicization of decision-making and other failings— but no evidence of deliberate fraud designed to hand the election to Bush.

    I looked especially closely at the theory that fraud is the only way to explain the large gap between the early exit polls, which showed Kerry doing very well, and the final result giving Ohio’s key electoral votes to Bush. According to this theory, there was no way the actual tally could vary so greatly from the exit polls. The proponents of this view essentially accuse the legendary exit pollster Warren Mitofsky, and a media consortium, the National Election Pool (NEP), of some kind of complicity— or at least willful denial. I found no evidence whatever of either.

    Nice try.

  39. 42

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    Don’t you get tired of looking/acting/BEING so foolish?

  40. 43

    headless lucy spews:

    Strom Thurmond’s daughter is legitimate, or he would not have paid for her upbringing.

  41. 44

    zapporo spews:

    Don’s Female Personaility #27 @22 –

    Wisconsin was much closer than Ohio with tons of “interesting” ballots in Milwaukee. I can see a few ballots, maybe a couple of thousand ala Washington state, but hundreds of thousands?

    Would you mind posting your objective, mainstream media source that proclaims Ohio was stolen and has the proof to back it up? Hell, not even proof, evan a semblant conspiracy theory would be interesting. (This should be interesting…..)

  42. 45

    headless lucy spews:

    Would the Conyers Report carry any weight with you or are you sticking with the essayist at tompaine.com?

  43. 46

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    The failure of KingCo to investigate the Poll Book discrepancies WILL make the Big Binder the key to Monday.

  44. 47

    bluesky spews:

    I really despise that term, “illegitimate” when referring to people. That should go the way of the “n-word>”

  45. 48

    WingDingALings @ it again spews:

    ASS @ 42

    Do you? Priscilla never mentioned exit polls in any of her posts in this thread.

    Nice try, Limbaugh-liteweight.

    Next.

  46. 49

    headless lucy spews:

    re @44: Now it’s “…objective, mainstream media…,”? What happened to all the media with that liberal bias? It’s gone! Replaced by the “objective, mainstream media.” Trying to hold you guys down to any sort of honesty is just impossible. You just say whatever you need to to support the argument that you are making at the moment and if anyone holds you to account for your lying B.S.(thereby holding a mirror to your face), then you start in with the personal attacks. You can’t win because ultimately you are full of crap and your brief moment in the sun right now will look like a dark cloud in the historical perspective.

  47. 50

    zapporo spews:

    dj – No anger here. I just tried to hit the high points quickly. e.g., – If Dino loses, will he be branded by the public as a sore loser by appealing to WSSC? The plaintiff’s filing includes equal protection “nuclear” option. Could it go that far (to USSC)? There’s alot of interesting angles to this.

    Nobody knows the true error rate for this election nor has anyone adequately reconciled KC vote counts. If so, point me to the TVW feed and show me the Ishikawa error diagram (Yeah right). Please re-read Foulkes. Did plaintiff show that fraud caused the election results to change? Please don’t make me recite the King County errors – That would take another page of blog space. Clearly laws were violated by KC election officials. We have sworn testimony to that effect. Further, the judge clearly admitted that we are covering new ground here.

    So, do I think Dino has a reasonable chance to prevail? Yes, definitely. Will he? We’ll find out on Monday. Will I cry if he loses? Hell no. I was resigned to that from the start. The fact that it has gotten this far has been quite surprising.

  48. 51

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    I really despise that term, “illegitimate” when referring to people. -Comment by bluesky— 6/4/05 @ 6:21 pm

    Bullshit – just more liberal “pretty up the language so no one feels bad” nonsense… It’s not murdering an unborn child,it’s a choice; it’s not a baby its a fetus, they aren’t homosexual, they’re gay…blah, blah, blah.

    Actions:Consequences, babe

    If you choose to have a baby outside of the institution of marrage than that child is, as much as you hate the word, illegitimate.

    il·le·git·i·mate
    adj.
    1.Against the law; illegal.
    2.Born out of wedlock.
    3.Grammar. Not in correct usage.
    4.Incorrectly deduced; illogical.
    5.Biology. Unacceptable as a scientific name because of contradiction to the international rules of nomenclature.

    I tend to agree with Medved who calls the children of unwed Hollywoodies: Celebrity Bastard Babies.

    bas·tard n.
    A child born out of wedlock.
    2.mething that is of irregular, inferior, or dubious origin.
    3.ang. A person, especially one who is held to be mean or disagreeable

    If you don’t want your child growing up illegitimate, don’t have him out of wedlock.

  49. 52

    zapporo spews:

    Headless Lucy – This blog is the medium. How would you feel about http://www.gop.com as the source of any information? Are you accusing Dan Rather of joining John Birch? I didn’t think so. I was trying to strike middle ground for intelligent discourse.

    Your posts are very interesting. In the very same post that you provide an ad hominem attack, or several for that matter, you accuse (conservatives?) of doing that very same thing. Were you captain of your debate team? Just curious.

  50. 53

    WingDingALings @ it again spews:

    The fact that it has gotten this far has been quite surprising.

    Pfffft. There goes my coke and my monitor..

    Does the letters BIAW and W$RP mean anything to anybody?

  51. 54

    spews:

    i’m going to take a wild guess here and say that judge bridges will rule in the gop’s favor and by doing so rule in favor of the people of washington state.
    after all….EVERYONE was cheated by dean logan and his cronies here………

  52. 56

    zapporo spews:

    Don’s Fractured Personality #47 @53 — Compared to the Tammany Hall Democratic political machine in WA State? How else do you explain Ron Sims?

    Do you have any idea of how the rest of the state feels about this election contest? Ordinary, middle of the road people are outraged that this election was allowed to proceed in the manner that it did. How else do you explain, as of two weeks ago, the polls that indicates 57% majority of WA voters still believe that Rossi actually won? The world is much bigger than King County. Your parochialism is most unbecoming.

  53. 57

    dj spews:

    zapporo @ 50

    “No anger here. I just tried to hit the high points quickly.

    Fair enough!

    “e.g., – If Dino loses, will he be branded by the public as a sore loser by appealing to WSSC? The plaintiff’s filing includes equal protection “nuclear” option.”

    If Rossi loses, he must make a decision: bow out and make a move for the center (i.e. come off as a statesman at risk of demoralizing the right) or go to the WSC (and lose), which will anger (i.e. catalyze) the right. Interesting choice. Bush went for the latter in 2004.

    “Could it go that far (to USSC)? There’s alot of interesting angles to this.”

    I cannot envision the Federal courts touching this. But, it doesn’t defy the laws of physics or anything.

    “Nobody knows the true error rate for this election nor has anyone adequately reconciled KC vote counts. If so, point me to the TVW feed and show me the Ishikawa error diagram (Yeah right).”

    There is no “reconciliation” process required or done. The post election voter crediting numbers are not used in that way (and that is where the famous 808 “unreconciled” absentee ballots
    come from). Calling the voter crediting process a reconciliation process is a complete fiction. The judge ruled before the trial started that voter crediting has no place in assessing the validity of the election.

    BTW: of the 808 difference between absentee ballots counted and voter credits, 320 are known to be federal write-ins and address confidentiality ballots (this was agreed to by the two parties). Additionally 292 were ballots rejected after validation, and given challenge codes (this is in Fells deposition), and an additional 95 are the ballots discovered in unopened envelopes after certification (the parties do not agree on this one, however). That leaves 101 “discrepancies.” We also know that Samantha Duncan messed up on the order of 100s of computer records. She emailed Nicole Way about it and together they tried to correct the errors, but Ms. Way said she could not be sure if the corrected them all.

    “Please re-read Foulkes. Did plaintiff show that fraud caused the election results to change? “

    The situation was entirely different in Foulkes. Listen to the Dems closing argument—the differences are spelled out lucidly there.

    “Clearly laws were violated by KC election officials. We have sworn testimony to that effect. Further, the judge clearly admitted that we are covering new ground here”

    The trial did not bring out any laws that were broken by KC.
    Whose testimony said that KC violated the law? There have been no KC election officials charged with crimes. The judge did not say or even imply that anyone at KC broke the law.

  54. 58

    headless lucy spews:

    Zapporo:The Conyers report is about the Ohio election. What subject would you suggest I use the GOP as a source for? I’m sure the GOP is a fine source of information. However, I’ve never seen you refer to it, so I never have checked its veracity. And, tell me honestly, do you think our president knows what an ad hominem attack is? He’d probably think it was a criticism of hominy grits and proceed to defend good, Christian, hominy eatin’ people as being the salt-of-the-earth and the innocent victims of citified liberals. And the media would ignore it because they realize the man is a certifiable moron and no one knows who’s really in charge. How’s that for ad hominem?

  55. 59

    headless lucy spews:

    Stop yer cat: I revoke your legitimacy. There are families that live here in WA to whom that woman is wife, mother, grandmother and great grandmother. Your the bastard.

  56. 60

    marks spews:

    Headless @58

    The Conyers report is about the Ohio election.

    I don’t enjoy the company of close-minded individuals like you. Further, your childish rants grate on my nerves.

    The Conyers report was frivolous, biased, and a naked attempt by one of the most partisan democrats in Congress to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the Nov 04 election. I have the PDF file, and have read the bullet items purportedly “proving” fraud. In each item, the summation shows a comparison of unlike proportionality (you know, apples and oranges). There is a very good reason why the MSM does not cover the “fraud” outlined in the report:

    IT DOESN’T EXIST!

    More specifically, Conyers was guilty of (drum roll….)

    Playing politics!

  57. 61

    Priscilla spews:

    dj @ 28

    “The Dems blind-sided them by finding an offsetting number of illegal votes in pro-Rossi counties.”

    Gee do you mean Mr. Cynical didn’t warn them?

  58. 62

    righton spews:

    headless; ever consider Conyers wouldn’t ever report the truth.

    He may be a bastard too.

  59. 64

    Tired of it all spews:

    Hmmm, more ballots than voters. That shouldn’t really bother anyone, cause it the # of votes that count. Not if legal citizens voted the correct # of times, or if some people took it upon themselves or were say suggested to do it by moveone.org or one of those subversive groups to take advantage of the lax rules in KC about voting. Hell if it keeps those evil republicans from stopping the unions from hurting our state or using sense in implementing a correct view of social help…cause really all people should not have to work and just frolic like those really strong Euro-folk… then it’s ok.

    Remember, liberals believe in the lowest common denominator…no one needs to strive for excellence or even do the right thing, just be a mass that is abused by the rich liberal elites, cause they are for the people as long as those people shut up, and stay the hell away from the while they are spending the poor stiiffs hard earned money.

    I’ve lived in WA all my life and am disgusted by this whole election and people that excuse incompentence and out right wrong doing.

    DG – you need to stop hitting the pipe man and wake up.

  60. 65

    Priscilla spews:

    Reply to 30

    peawit, you wouldn’t know what a “standard” is if it kicked you in the ass.

  61. 66

    Priscilla spews:

    Serial Poster @ 32 through 36

    Your keyboard diarrhea is much worse than my constipation.

  62. 67

    Priscilla spews:

    39

    “Can you regressive progressives shut up now about Ohio and your precious exit polls?”

    When you shut up about King County or hell freezes over, whichever occurs first.

  63. 68

    Priscilla spews:

    Reply to 41

    So, then, Ken Blackwell is not necessarily a crook but he is, at minimum, incompetent.

  64. 69

    Priscilla spews:

    Reply to 44

    I feel that I have been too harsh lately in criticizing our beloved Republican troll posters, so I’ve decided to let my softer feminine side shine through for a while, dick face.

  65. 70

    Priscilla spews:

    Reply to 46

    Why didn’t you warn them the Democrats were collecting felon votes in Rossi counties? This strikes me as hugely remiss on your part. After all, my former personifications did tell you about this.

  66. 72

    Priscilla spews:

    Comment on 50

    “The fact that it has gotten this far has been quite surprising.”

    Yes, it is, isn’t it.

  67. 73

    Priscilla spews:

    Comment on 52

    Zap, wingers have been flinging ad hominem attacks at liberals for decades, and now you’re complaining because liberals are dishing it back? What did you motherfuckers expect, that we were going to roll over and die because you told us to? Fuck you.

  68. 75

    Priscilla spews:

    Reply to 56

    I like Ron Sims, and I like his political machine, and I don’t give a shit what the Republicans in eastern Washington think. They’re only 15% of the state’s population.

  69. 76

    Priscilla spews:

    Comment on 60

    I agree. We must eliminate partisanship from partisan politics, or we are in danger of ending up with partisan politics. That said, I can’t help but comment that Rossi’s lawsuit and all the GOP press releases about it are, as you said, “frivolous, biased, and a naked attempt by one of the most partisan [gangs of liars ever born] … to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the Nov 04 election.”

  70. 78

    Priscilla spews:

    64

    But it’s funny that you’re not disgusted or even bothered by all the lying about this election coming from the GOP side.

  71. 79

    headless lucy spews:

    I can tell that one of you Reps (maybe more) have taken a Freshman philosophy course. You’re dragging out the apples,oranges, and ad hominem—- a veritable feast of primitive Rep attempts at intellectuality. However you may twist and turn, the fact remains that it is a statistical impossibility that those machines are not rigged in favor of Reps.I have referred you to a reputable source and although you agree that the data is real and correct you dismiss it as comparing apples to oranges. I don’t even think you know what is the meaning of “apples to oranges”. It’s just a handy and smart-sounding group of words that you’ve seen others use to dismiss an argument that has merit. That not reasoned discussion. It’s chicanery. There can’t be a lawyer far from these Rep postings. The political reason for not pressing the case in Ohio is that it would cause too much turmoil in the populace—so they say. I predict those machines will bite the dust real soon.

  72. 80

    WingDingALings @ it again spews:

    Bzzzt. Sorry I’m not Don. Lessee.

    Compared to the Tammany Hall Democratic political machine in WA State?

    I see. Very successful at preventing Rossi from getting “this far”.

    Ordinary, middle of the road people are outraged that this election was allowed to proceed in the manner that it did.

    Pffft. There’s goes my monitor again. Darn it just cleaned it. Allowed to proceed! You mean in accordance with the law?

    How else do you explain, as of two weeks ago, the polls that indicates 57% majority of WA voters still believe that Rossi actually won?

    Pffft… What poll? Ok, let’s say it’s correct. Does this poll also ask how many of those same people think Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11?

    The world is much bigger than King County.

    Well D’uh.

  73. 81

    marks spews:

    Headless,

    Which part of shows a comparison of unlike proportionality did you not understand in relation to apples and oranges? I hope your position at school comprises use of a broom and not use of chalk or dry-erase markers.

    The political reason for not pressing the case in Ohio is that it would cause too much turmoil in the populace—so they say.

    No, the reason is that there is no basis in fact. I can think of a number of NYT and Washington Post reporters and OP/ED writers who would love to expound on the report, if only they could find something legitimate to expound on.

  74. 82

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    The BIG BINDER!
    Reconciliations are required at the PRECINDT LEVEL.
    Investigate discrepancies.
    Report discrepancies to the Canvassing Board.
    The size of KingCo is a LEFTIST PINHEADED FOG!!
    Fraudulent #’s reported to the Canvassing Board.

    Reconcile at the PRECINDT LEVEL>

    You will hear this on Monday…get used to it.

  75. 83

    headless lucy spews:

    marks: The argument, first off, is not, “comparing apples and oranges.” You can compare apples and oranges. But you can’t compare ,”apples TO oranges.” Why should I listen to you if you tell me I can’t compare apples and oranges when I obviously can. Both are spherical, grow on trees, etc….. BUT, if you attempt to , say, describe the TASTE of an apple in reference to an orange you’ll find that it is logically and physically impossible. Would you care to expound upon my prediliction for ad-hominem attacks, or just admit that you are an idiot from the get-go. I didn’t have to look this stuff up. It’s already in my head. Looks like junior college and an AZ stae teachers college put me one over on you. This is one person you don’t want to talk down to. It’ll bite you in the ass almost every time.

  76. 84

    dj spews:

    Priscilla @ 61

    “Gee do you mean Mr. Cynical didn’t warn them?”

    My guess is that all his screaming about it on Bloggs tipped off the Dems that they had better get down to work. :)

  77. 85

    marks spews:

    Looks like junior college and an AZ stae teachers college put me one over on you.

    They’ll give a credential to anybody, won’t they? Not that I give a shit, but if I end a sentence with a preposition, will Headless figure out a rehab plan?

  78. 86

    headless lucy spews:

    marks: Just as all Reps do, you returned to making personal attacks, since even YOU now realize that your philosophy and world view are seriously flawed. Will you attempt to arrive at an honest conclusion or take the easy way out and go back to the name calling? Either way , I don’t care you, Christo/Fascist Nazi.

  79. 87

    dj spews:

    Tired of it all @ 64,

    “Hmmm, more ballots than voters. That shouldn’t really bother anyone, cause it the # of votes that count. Not if legal citizens voted the correct # of times, or if some people took it upon themselves or were say suggested to do it by moveone.org or one of those subversive groups to take advantage of the lax rules in KC about voting.”

    Geez you are one paranoid fuck! There were not more ballots than voters. Not one shred of evidence was introduced into the case to suggest more ballots than voters (minor exception: the 11 in-state voters who voted twice and the roughly 50 deceased voters whose ballots were illegally filled out on their behalf).

    I suspect you are still under the illusion that there is some validity to using the voter crediting records. But, as the SoS argued and Judge Bridges ruled, the voter crediting process is irrelevant. It is more error prone than ballot tallying—it is done by a small army of temporary employees, is not under observation by parties, and is not designed to be a check in the validity of the election. Go get the fuck over it!

    As I pointed out in a post above, what mysteriously began as an 808 (or 875 by some accounts) “discrepancy” really shrinks down to a discrepancy of 101 without even doing a detailed investigation. That is, the federal write-ins, address confidentiality cases, ballots with challenge codes, and 95 uncounted ballots end up shrinking that number down to a very small number. If somebody (especially the GOP legal team) bothered to investigate, I suspect they would all end up being explained. (What the hell. . . we have envelopes; we have ballots; an investigation should not be that difficult).

    Nobody bothered investigating the 101 remaining discrepancies. Why didn’t King County investigate them? Because there is no legal reason to do so (i.e. it wastes people’s time). Why didn’t the GOP legal team investigate them further? Who knows. So they can keep sheep like you stupid and in the dark?

    “Hell if it keeps those evil republicans from stopping the unions from hurting our state or using sense in implementing a correct view of social help…cause really all people should not have to work and just frolic like those really strong Euro-folk… then it’s ok.”

    What the fuck are by babbling about? Are mushrooms in season or something?

    “Remember, liberals believe in the lowest common denominator…no one needs to strive for excellence or even do the right thing. . . “

    No, dipshit, the liberals believe in following the rule of law! You can’t make up election rules because you don’t like the outcome.

    “just be a mass that is abused by the rich liberal elites, cause they are for the people as long as those people shut up, and stay the hell away from the while they are spending the poor stiiffs hard earned money.”

    More mushroom talk!

    “I’ve lived in WA all my life and am disgusted by this whole election and people that excuse incompentence and out right wrong doing.”

    Well, I haven’t lived in WA all my life, but you have given me a new-found awareness of the severe weaknesses in our educational system!

  80. 88

    dj spews:

    Mr. Cynical @ 82

    Thanks for the kind words this A.M. You might want to take ‘em back after today—you may decide I am just an ordinary hemorrhoid-sucking LEFTIST PINHEAD. :)

    “Reconciliations are required at the PRECINDT LEVEL.
    Investigate discrepancies. Report discrepancies to the Canvassing Board.”

    First, I assume you are talking about the true reconciliations, and not the voter crediting bullshit, right?

    I’ve read the entire election law part of the RCW, but my memory is not that good. So, I am going to go out on a limb and speculating without being able to point to the RCW. Any help here (especially corrections) is appreciated.

    I believe that the counties determine the degree to which they investigate discrepancies. The SoS PowerPoint educational presentation is a “best practices” manual, but not the law. Therefore, KC was legally justified in ignoring discrepancies of +/- 1 in order to be able to certify on time (not certifying on time is a class C felony for the entire canvassing board!).

    Do I remember correctly that there are some 10-15 ordinary ways these discrepancies arise (or was that discrepancies for voter crediting)?

    “Fraudulent #’s reported to the Canvassing Board.”

    “Fraud” by the legal definition is an “intent to deceive resulting in injury” (Barrons Law Dictionary, Second Edition, 1984–admittedly very old, but that is all I have at hand).

    Nicole Way testified (in direct response to Judge Bridges’ question) that she though her report was as accurate when she signed it. That hardly constitutes fraud (and there does not appear to be an “injury” component here since her report did not change the election count).

    I tend to think Bridges will view this as little more than bad judgment by Way and Fell, but who knows!

    Even if he views it as outrageous, do you think he could overturn the election based on this? I don’t believe the RCW supports such a move unless it can be shown that Ms. Way’s report resulted in the election improperly going to Gregoire instead of Rossi.

  81. 89

    Priscilla spews:

    84

    Naah. The Democrats don’t need Mr. Cynical to do their thinking for them. They thought of collecting signatures before the Repubs, remember?

  82. 90

    dj spews:

    Pricilla @ 89,
    By gum, you are right! And, aren’t those the very signatures that put Gregoire in the lead?

  83. 91

    righton spews:

    dj; are you paul barendt?

    dems believe in the rule of law? rolling on the coffee table w a gut ache

  84. 92

    dj spews:

    righton @ 91,

    “are you paul barendt?”

    No. I’ve stated before that I am not even a Democrat.

    “dems believe in the rule of law? rolling on the coffee table w a gut ache”

    I am not sure I follow here. . . .

  85. 93

    righton spews:

    dj you say
    a)If somebody (especially the GOP legal team) bothered to investigate, I suspect they would all end up being explained.
    b)the liberals believe in following the rule of law!

    So you say a couple of truly ridiculous things
    i) nothing really happend, though KC, its officials, its lawyer can’t account for ballots the way they used to in prior elections, nor in other counties
    ii) ya’ll don’t believe in laws, unless its written laws constantly open for court reinterpretation….

    Latter is the one that gives me the gut ache

  86. 94

    dj spews:

    Righton @ 93

    a)If somebody (especially the GOP legal team) bothered to investigate, I suspect they would all end up being explained.
    b)the liberals believe in following the rule of law!

    The GOP legal team was trying to make legal (or more likely, political) issues out of the “discrepancy” between absentee ballots and absentee voter crediting. There are no requirements whatsoever in the State Constitution, RCW, or WAC that voter crediting records should even be compared to the number of ballots cast. Judge Bridges ruled it irrelevant. The SoS office testified on irrelevancy and pointed out why such discrepancies can and do arise.

    Nevertheless, the GOP legal team pressed the issue. We saw during the trial that 80 percent of the discrepancies vanished when several large categories of absentee ballots were examined. If the GOP had gone in and actually investigated the remaining 101 discrepancies, I strongly believe they would have been resolved. That has nothing to do with rule of law, since the law makes no such requirements on the counties. It would be good practice for a petitioner alleging fraud, however, as a way to potentially finding actual evidence for fraud! The GOP legal team did not do that because “election fraud” was a last minute addition to their case after they realized they were unlikely to win via a proportional deduction of invalid votes.

    So you say a couple of truly ridiculous things
    i) nothing really happend, though KC, its officials, its lawyer can’t account for ballots the way they used to in prior elections, nor in other counties

    righton, you probably wrote this in a hurry, but I need to ask for clarification here in order to address your comment.

    ii) ya’ll don’t believe in laws, unless its written laws constantly open for court reinterpretation…. Latter is the one that gives me the gut ache

    Well, you are most certainly correct that I don’t believe in unwritten laws! And I certainly believe the Constitution of the US (Article III) and the State of Washington empowers the courts with interpretation of laws.

    You don’t believe these things???? I suspect you have just not fully explained yourself here.

  87. 95

    Marilyn spews:

    Mr. Cynical@4:

    “The rest of you…can suck my hemmorhoids”

    And all this time you’ve had me believing that you were the perfect asshole. Marilyn

  88. 96

    U2 spews:

    Marilyn @ 95 Lol, CynialIdiot was the ‘perfect asshole’ until all of his rantings and ravings turned into mush. His ass has been chewed and spewed by all progressives here. He comes here because uSP will not allow their inbred children to use foul language. LMAO@CYNICAL

  89. 97

    Priscilla spews:

    90

    They are! They are indeed! And I personally went out into the field and got 2 of them — in Bellevue of all places! :D

  90. 98

    Priscilla spews:

    91

    What did Democrats do that’s against the law, and if they did anything against the law, why haven’t they been prosecuted by King County’s REPUBLICAN prosecuting attorney, you lying asshole?

  91. 99

    Priscilla spews:

    I have a suggestion! Next time a Republican from King County gets elected to a post (e.g., dog catcher) let’s demand a reconciliation and contest the election if the votes don’t reconcile!

  92. 100

    Priscilla spews:

    Except I would exempt Norm Maleng from this because he’s an honest Republican, the only honest Republican our state has. (I used to think Dan Evans was an honest Republican too, until he lent his name to this revote bullshit, proving he’s a hack along with the rest of them.)

  93. 101

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    U2@96–
    Now you have morphed once again from jpgee to U2????
    It’s hard keep track of 2 individuals who do the majority of the PINHEADED posting…..except for one rather distinct, telling detail…
    When you and thatPrick/Priscilla/Don/Alan/dubyaSux etal 43 identities post…..the 2 of you leave a slimey trail like a couple of Northwest Slugs!
    Tomorrow morning, be prepared to have a couple pounds of salt dumped on your sorry asses! It will be cool to watch the 2 of you coil up, shrivel and then literally explode.

  94. 102

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    Cyn – I think Prissy is that noisy little bug formerly known as j cricket.

  95. 103

    GS spews:

    You are right for a change! Monday will not be it, both sides will drag this on, and actually the longer it is dragged on and the more it is talked about the better. Even Gregiore’s new public relations hire (over 100k per year wasted I might add) will not put this baby to bed. Only another election will and King County will ever ever get an opportunity to put on such a side show of an election! Get the hell rid of Sims, then the new County Executive can fire Dean Logan, clean up the Elections department, and a vote may actually mean something in this state in the next election!

    PS. I signed up to be a poll watcher, got my call yesterday, and I will be at a site working in the next election!

  96. 104

    righton spews:

    dj; too lazy (really) to go dig up the charges, the dirt from the trial. Politically its best Gregoire wins, but there is zero way a person (save for confirmed leftie) can watch the proceedings and read depositions from Way, nixon unhandy, logan, huenekens (that guy needs to be fired) and not be convinced the thing was flawed. You know the judge will dump on KC big time.

    I’m convinced KC and dems greatly encouraged as many bodies voting as poosible, and as few checks and controls as possible, which leads to DEm wins and has no nice paper trail of evidence to show any crime. Combo of aggressive registration (and the always gonna happen extra votes) with zip checking of ballots etc. Like designing your business to be robbed, and profiting from it. Logan stole nothing but is the boob night watchman who was Negligent. Maybe gross negligence is what the judge rules?

  97. 105

    K spews:

    I’ve said this before, but here it goes again, The Sims supporters did not push for a Gregiore win. As noted in previous threads, many still wrote in Ron’s name. That camp’s greatest fear was Rossi would lose a close one, blame them and run against them. They are much happier running against Irons, a weak candidate. I have little doubt that Rossi would beat him easily.

    There is no evidence, REPEAT, EVIDENCE, that King Co. affirmitive committed worng acts. Errors, ommissios, sure. Proof of affirmative acts has been lacking.

  98. 106

    righton spews:

    K, you make my side hurt… the best spin you guys have come up with is that faced w/ a Dem vs a GOP candaidate, the Dem poll workers were too loyal to sims to want to help gregoire.

    But you go one step farther than earlier spin; they also afraid of a close loss. So dems in KC only wanted Rossi to lose by a landslide?

    ….ouch, hit my elbow falling down….