Sarah Palin: the Anne Frank of our times

Oy…

Washington Times editorial defends Sarah Palin’s use of the phrase “blood libel” in the wake of the Tucson shootings, by calling media criticism of Palin “the latest round of an ongoing pogrom against conservative thinkers.”

Palin had been criticized for using the term “blood libel” to characterize media attacks against her, because of associations between “blood libel” and persecution of Jews in Europe. The term has its roots in the false charge that Jews would murder children and use their blood in religious rituals.

The choice by the Times to describe media attacks as “pogroms” is even more unfortunate since the term usually refers to destructive riots that targeted Jews during the time of the Russian Empire, and often resulted in massacres.

I’m starting work on the Fiddler on the Roof parody right away. My working title: “Didier on the Roof.”

Comments

  1. 4

    Tondaleo Lipshitz spews:

    re the WT: A little Jew-baiting never hurt anyone — except the Jews.

    The only thing I really know about Judaism is what I found in the novels of Isaac Bashevis Singer — Davita’s Harp being a favorite.

  2. 5

    Tondaleo Lipshitz spews:

    I just checked the author and Davita’s Harp is by Chaim Potok — in case you want to check it out.

  3. 10

    Zotz sez: This space available! Previous wingnut tenant leaves to spend more time with his goat(s)! spews:

    @6: Consider the source. This is Rev. Moon’s paper after all.

    So it’s probably not accurate to say “we” are fucked.

  4. 12

    rhp6033 spews:

    Puyallup: Having a bit of a stuttering problem(#7, 8, 9)?

    Of course, Republicans do indeed where red G-strings. Now, if he were wearing a BLUE G-string….

  5. 14

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    @13,

    Was J. Edgar a Rep? I thought he was just a nancy boy with a gambling problem. The Mafia is rumored to have pictures of J. Edgar in drag. How hilarious would that be to look over!

  6. 15

    doggril spews:

    @12 – Maybe 7,8,9 was just following a standard conservative tactic: the more idiotic your claim, the more you need to repeat it.

  7. 16

    Michael spews:

    @7,8,9

    Nah, they just have a really wide stance!

    Considering all the Republicans that have “gone down” do to sexual improprieties, I’d say that sexual deviance is a sign of being a Republican.

  8. 17

    Salsamanca spews:

    Sara Palin is just too dang dumb to be a public figure and is done for. I don’t know why the Republicans can pick better candidates. Her being second in command would be a horror show.

  9. 19

    Daddy Love spews:

    Hey, I’ll bet those deficit-hating Republicans are going to cut farm subsidies! Or eliminate the oil depletion allowance!

    No? But, but…I thought they…

    Never mind.

  10. 21

    Some Republican Dullard spews:

    @20

    The Republican’s really are the party of sexual deviance.
    They should develop a platform around that.

  11. 23

    Michael spews:

    @20
    …And I thought it was scandalous when one of Gary Locke’s interns turned up on the cover of Plumper’s Magazine…

  12. 25

    jcricket spews:

    Getting back to Sarah….wasn’t it just a little while ago that she accused Julian Assange of having blood on his hands for the Wikileaks documents? She had no problem asserting her first amendment right to be a strident, shrieking harpy.

    And now that her very own, documented, inflammatory rhetoric is called into question over real bloodshed, somehow she is a persecuted European Jew in fear of her life from Christians seeking institutional revenge for the death of children for her holiday matzo.

    Seriously?

  13. 29

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    7, 8, 9 – First learn how to use a computer mouse, which most of the 4-year-olds in this country know how to do, then maybe we’ll discuss this.

  14. 30

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @10 The Washington Times loses millions of dollars a year. The money comes from Moon’s sweatshops and arms trafficking. What a nice guy to subsidize opinions of this nature on the backs of the slaves working in his factories and over the dead bodies of the people his black-market weapons kill.

  15. 34

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @32 Maybe SJ thinks we’re not bashing them hard enough. I’m doing the best I can.

  16. 35

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    And now that her very own, documented, inflammatory rhetoric is called into question over real bloodshed, somehow she is a persecuted European Jew in fear of her life from Christians seeking institutional revenge for the death of children for her holiday matzo.

    Except we now know none of it was true. The crazed idiot, killer of a sweet little girl never listened to that per his bestus friend. He was after Gabrielle since 2007. Even your vaulted president admitted that Wednesday night. But you plugged your ears.

    But keep up the same mantra. BTW

    “From one perspective, she was justified in defending herself. And in English language, blood libel has become a term which is understood to somebody’s being blamed for something and they’re not guilty of. So I understand. I understand her desire to defend herself. She had a right to defend herself.”

    Abraham H. Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League.

  17. 36

    jcricket spews:

    Except we now know none of it was true.

    Bullshit. Her rhetoric was documented and inflammatory AND is called into question.

    Learn how to read, or take a moment for comprehension.

  18. 37

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    My thoughts are in an essay over at The Ave. Why are so many on the left so willing to excuse the crazy people of the right?

    You mean this crazy leftist is excused, friend of your president who apparently sat at her feet learning from her?

  19. 38

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Her rhetoric was documented and inflammatory AND is called into question.

    Where is the evidence? All the liberal MSM finally admitted he was not influenced WHATSOEVER.

    But don’t allow facts to stop a good mantra. Reminds Puddy of the Wicked Witch’s Flying Monkeys!

  20. 39

    jcricket spews:

    @38

    You are dumber than a bag of hair. You are so hellbent on defending Palin that you don’t even realize that there was NO claim that she incited the violence, but only that her rhetoric was called into question. Which it WAS.

    Your reading comprehension is laughable. It is no wonder there is so little regard for your musings here.

  21. 40

    spews:

    Roger and others …

    Bashing here is like a fart in a windstorm.

    Commentary on cable nets, from the President, and from the prof I cited on line seem afraid to call these would be Hitlers what they are.

    Listen to Joe Scarboro, one of the few talking heads willing to speak his mind, argue agaimst Beck, Palin, and the Tea party nuits at the post I put in the essay.

  22. 41

    spews:

    Puddy,

    No, Glen Beck did not pull the trigger and this killer was not driven by lust for Palin the porn queen, but neither Palin nor Beck, nor You not most of Fox is capable of feeling disgust at your own words come to life.

    You claim to revere a kindly, peace making Jesus. You and your crown do him little credit.

  23. 42

    jcricket spews:

    @38

    …and…

    Sarah Palin is such a coward that she has to try to deflect attention away from her own stupidity (like using crosshairs over political opponents and bragging about it, then recording a badly teleprompted highly scripted rebuttal where she felt she was being martyred, then refusing to show her face unless it is within the safe confines of Fox Noise…)

    Palin is a loser who can’t own up to making mistakes, and from last week forward republican support for her will decline until the only ones sticking by her are the delusionals that mirror image the mental health problems in America.

  24. 43

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Puddy had to laugh for a while

    but only that her rhetoric was called into question.

    And of course this June 2008 Daily Kos rhetoric was excused

    Who to primary? Well, I’d argue that we can narrow the target list by looking at those Democrats who sold out the Constitution last week. I’ve bolded members of the Blue Dogs for added emphasis.

    But there is more here

    Not all of these people will get or even deserve primaries, but this vote certainly puts a bulls eye on their district.

    Yes, you are dumber than a bag of lice infested hair.

  25. 44

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    ike using crosshairs over political opponents and bragging about it

    Crosshairs? Did someone say crosshairs?

    Sarah Palin’s map, now cited by liberals everywhere as responsible for the attack on Congresswoman Gifford two days ago, because of its “rifle crosshairs”, in fact uses the proper Surveyors Map symbols, exactly as per the US Geological Survey

    Interesting indeed.

  26. 45

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    SJ, what was the last sentence? Oh you liked Puddy’s link on a crazed leftist?

  27. 46

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    “From one perspective, she was justified in defending herself. And in English language, blood libel has become a term which is understood to somebody’s being blamed for something and they’re not guilty of. So I understand. I understand her desire to defend herself. She had a right to defend herself.”

    Abraham H. Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League.

    Crickets chirping…

  28. 47

    proud leftist spews:

    Puddy @ 37
    Your link here is remarkable. Do you actually go to a spot like that and think you gain truth? Really? Pathetic, Puddy, truly pathetic.

  29. 51

    Michael spews:

    Puddy,

    Keep up the good work! The more we get you righties to scream like this, the more voters run screaming from you.

  30. 53

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The Economist also takes aim at the right’s false equivalency arguments by quoting conservative commentator Andrew Sullivan:

    “Andrew Sullivan … says ‘the simple fact of the matter is that there’s far more [rhetorical excess] on the right than left.’ More important, he thinks excessive rhetoric on the right routinely involves dehumanising one’s enemies and invokes the spectre of violence in a way leftist rhetoric rarely does.”

  31. 55

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Finally, The Economist takes on the right’s false ideology that private possession of guns prevents our government from becoming a tyranny:

    “Most Americans on the right believe that a crucial reason why individuals should own guns is to protect themselves from government tyranny, and that widespread individual possession of guns is one of the main reasons why American citizens enjoy freedom of conscience, religion, and the rest of our civil liberties. … But it’s a hopelessly mistaken ideological belief. Looking around the world, there is no link between individual ownership of firearms and democratic governance or civil rights and freedoms.

    “The main determinant of guns per population member, as for cars per population member, is wealth. And yet, while the United States has the most guns per person in the world, the number two country appears to be Yemen, not usually considered a bastion of democracy or civil rights. Individual ownership of firearms is much higher in Saudi Arabia and Russia than in Britain; it is much higher in Pakistan than in India.

    “The idea that individuals could use their private firearms to mount a serious challenge to government hegemony is only plausible in very weak states. … Americans and Britons have freedom of conscience and secure property rights because of the strength of American and British democratic civil culture and legal and governing institutions, not as a function of whether or not they are allowed to own private guns.”

    (Emphases added.)

    http://www.economist.com/blogs.....asty_words

  32. 57

    Steve spews:

    They pulled the surveyor symbol thing from their ass in an act of desperation. The also pulled the map down. It’s the act of those who understand their guilt and want to conceal it. It only makes them look worse. That’s remarkable in itself as I didn’t think Palin could look much worse.

  33. 58

    Steve spews:

    @49 Actually, there’s a “principal point” symbol that’s somewhat similar to the gunsight symbol used by Palin. There’s a better view available here.

    http://egsc.usgs.gov/isb/pubs/.....ymbols.pdf

    Here’s a stock illustration of a telescopic gunsight view. This symbol is intended to convey the visual impression of a telescopic gunsight.

    http://www.canstockphoto.com/g.....92744.html

    What does Palin’s symbol more closely resemble? A stock telescopic gunsight illustration? Or does it more closely resemble a USGS symbol? Palin obviously had gunsight symbols on her map, targeting her opponents. The opponents she took out had their symbols stained blood red. Nice touch.

    It was guilt that caused them to take down the map. It was guilt that caused them to throw out this USGS symbol bullshit.

  34. 59

    Steve spews:

    The blockquote below is a lie. The Palin gunsight symbol is not “exactly” like the USGS symbol.

    Sarah Palin’s map, now cited by liberals everywhere as responsible for the attack on Congresswoman Gifford two days ago, because of its “rifle crosshairs”, in fact uses the proper Surveyors Map symbols, exactly as per the US Geological Survey

  35. 60

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Wow – just got here.

    I’m stunned Puddy is back – I took his radio silence over the past few days as meaning that he had crawled down some hole and was keeping to his people over on RedState or where ever.

    Alas, he’s back – but with strong rebuke. Indeed deservedly – that surveyor’s mark was bullshit from the get-go. I heard an exchange where one of Palin’s staff was discussing it on Fox – and she and the host generated and validated it out of thin air. Just a trope – and of course, Pud is still pushing it here. He has so little regard for this community.

  36. 61

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    proud leftist,

    Since leftist and leftist MSM won’t print about the Columbia Professor others will. Seems to Puddy you actually agree with the Columbia professor calling for progressive leftists to

    “So where are the angry crowds, the demonstrations, sit-ins and unruly mobs?”

    Puddy doesn’t see your condemnation. She ain’t talking to conservative peeps. And she prints it in The Nation a site used to prop up Goldy’s favorite ditz Darcy Burner. Or this BIO

    Goldstein has been published in The Nation and The Stranger

  37. 62

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    I’m heartened to see Roger’s discussion of the Republican culture of guns.

    I was listening – I think to Maddow the other day, and she had several people from the right – including Ron Paul – describing why guns are so necessary to them. Indeed, it was not about personal protection from criminals (the handgun in the nightstand) or about hunting – needing a rifle to take out Bambi. No, it was a perception that gun-owners were these patriotic heroes that were keeping what would otherwise be a dictatorship in check.

    I’m curious as to when this view of themselves came about. It’s obviously ludicrous on its face – as Roger and Rachel Maddow pointed out. Like I’ve said before, it’s like my 7 year old taking a toy gun to bed to keep away the bad guys, if these guys think that their private arsenals are going to stand up to the coercive power of the US national security apparatus, including its military.

    No, the way freedoms are preserved is having a strong culture of civil liberty and strong democratic institutions in a functioning vibrant government, one with maximal citizen participation. Government-R-Us, as I like to say.

    What is curious, is that the side that embraces this notion that their liberty must be preserved (and it requires armed force to do it), is also the one the chooses to consistently undermine government legitimacy and participation.

    I think that Ron Paul is not being totally honest and candid when he says that this second amendment fetish is about restraining government – it’s about restraining government that includes people they do not accept as legitimate Americans.

    These guns offer a physical touchstone for people – intimately, in their homes, that represents their anger and resentment and commitment to resist a government and a society that is changing and growing and becoming inclusive of brown people and gay people and any other sort of people they refuse to accept into their American family.

  38. 64

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    BTW your favorite economic kook Krugman has taken down most of his January 8th post on Palin, because he’s been proven wrong. In fact he’s posted two updates because now he’s been made to look stupid. But Puddy would like to offer this original phrase

    you’ll search in vain for anything comparably menacing, anything that even hinted at an appeal to violence, from members of Congress, let alone senior party officials

    Or this wonderful phrase

    “The climate that preceded the Oklahoma City bombing.”

    Really kook Krugman. Okay kook Krugman, the real counter proof is below.

    Of course it’s pathetic Lib Unscientist and others excuse the use of real bullseye targets from their Favorite Stooge Markos Moulitsas Zuniga who used targets and bullseyes on Gabrielle Giffords 21 months earlier than Sarah Palin. I know you looked at the links. You choose to ignore them. That’s why 90% of the HA leftist progressives are hypocrites. This is why I enjoy coming to this blog. I point out your useless hypocrisy every day. It’s a Hypocrisy 101 Thing. I enjoy taking all you fools on with spot on facts. It’s PDS everyday in every way. For your moronic types it’s Palin Derangement Syndrome.

    Now when you look at the symbols used by the DNC and The Kook himself you see bullseyes; circles within circles. So the leftists claimed “it’s crosshairs” Well if it’s crosshairs where is the target behind the symbol as Steve placed above. The target is a state? Give me a break! I am is still waiting for some erudite HA leftist to produce a map with “crosshairs” targeting someone from Sarah Palin. Or the DNC

    BEHIND ENEMY LINES:… Those states should be ripe targets for Democrats…

    Or your fiends in the DCCC who loved using targets too. Their map was from 2004. They introduced the bullseye to America and you HA leftist progressives skip right over that. It’s a Hypocrisy 101 Thing. Both of these are way before Sarah Palin arrived on the scene with her USGS symbolism. Yet all of you HA leftists keep on trucking to the same zombie-like drum beat.

    Keep looking. I am laughing so hard Lib Unscientist at your continual everyday lunacy like other HA leftists here. You take what you read on leftist blogs and that’s the gospel. Do any of you actually think for a minute before placing fingers to keyboard?

    Then there’s proud leftist’s favorite Columbia Professor

    the out-of-work have to stop blaming themselves for their hard times and turn their anger on the bosses, the bureaucrats or the politicians who are in fact responsible.

    So does that mean the unemployed will turn on Pelosi and Reid and Barney Frank?

  39. 67

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Hey proud leftist there is more from your favorite Columbia Professor…

    There was a surge in the proportion of the electorate that was 65 years old or more.

    Um yeah… they saw what your president was doing to Medicare and they didn’t like it. Oh my she played the Journolist race card.

    after all there is an african-american in the white house, that is sort of beyond their cultural experience. The American population is darkening and that’s beyond their cultural experience.

    We were told he’s a white-american with black skin.

    I don’t have any data on this but I am absolutely sure sex is very important in what is happening to older people.

    Then she says

    They are clinging to what they know

    Wasn’t that their Bible and their religion

    “And it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations,” [Candidate Barack Hussein] Obama said.

    Somehow the older Tea Party members are into politics because sex is very important in what is happening to older people? – She is truly a pathetic leftist progressive.

  40. 68

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @64
    Blah, blah, blah.
    More of the same Pudstupidity.

    What’s interesting is Pud’s new obsession with Frances Fox Piven – curiously, just like Glenn Beck. What’s up with that?

    The Pud is just a very transparent and unimaginative parrot. A veritable 4″ sewer pipe from the worst of the FoxFever Swamp, piped right into our collective home.

    Go away, Pud, the adults are having a conversation.

  41. 69

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    computer illegitimate,

    Where is his original comment

    you’ll search in vain for anything comparably menacing, anything that even hinted at an appeal to violence, from members of Congress, let alone senior party officials

    IT’S GONE FOOL! But the conservative web sites have kept it available.

    computer illegitimate == moron!

  42. 70

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Go away, Pud, the adults are having a conversation.

    Show me one. It’s not here. And trust me, you’re no adult. Adults identify hypocrisy and you can’t. It’s a Hypocrisy 101 Thing, and you are one of the chief hypocrites. Don’t like progressive pukester Piven’s call to arms?

    Facts explode the liberal mind especially when it’s proven liberalism is a mental disorder! Cuz if it’s from Kos that’s A-OK!

  43. 71

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    More info for the hypocrite Lib Unscientist cuz It’s a Hypocrisy 101 Thing. And we see the hypocrites at the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee website have removed their original posts.

  44. 72

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @66
    Of course Pud is lying, it’s what he does.

    Pud’s only purpose here is to fuck up other peoples’ conversations. He has NO INTEREST in dialogue or conversation or even honest argument. He is a sewer pipe of randomly assembled Beck talking points decorated with his own delusional ravings. As has been pointed out over and over lately, his style is oddly compelling, and invites retorts, but that is the initial, fatal mistake – he draws people into orbit around the black hole gravity of his insanity – which is the point – his type does not want anyone to engage in discussion of the vile actions of the right-wing, and he’ll do anything to derail such discussion.

    Ignore. Or taunt, just don’t try to engage – it’s an utter waste of time and energy (which is what he wants)

  45. 73

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Once again Lib Unscientist, prove I am lying about Krugman’s comment. Go on I dare you. Now you are scraping the barrel with computer illegitimate?

    Prove the DNC and the DCCC didn’t use targets and target Republicans with the word target. Oh wait It’s a Hypocrisy 101 Thing. You can’t honestly admit Kos or DNC or the DNCC used that imagery way before Palin. What a mental midget Lib Unscientist is looking for anything or anyone to agree with him.

    You can find Krugman’s original commentary which he has now removed all over the nets Lib Unscientist.

  46. 74

    Zotz sez: This space available! Previous wingnut tenant leaves to spend more time with his goat(s)! spews:

    Palin, in her own words:

    Remember the bullseye icon used 2 target Obamacare lovin’ incumbent seats?…

    Palin tweet, November 4th 2010

    Palin and Pudpuller are liars.

  47. 75

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Zitz,

    Okay she used bullseye in a tweet. It still doesn’t excuse Kos from flaming Palin when he used worse “rhetoric” and bulls eyes. Wait… if Kos used it on Gabrielle Giffords two years earlier that’s A-OK to Zitz. It’s a Hypocrisy 101 Thing. We now know Loughner was stalking her for years. It’s a Hypocrisy 101 Thing.

  48. 76

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Hey Zotz!

    It’s fun watching Pud stomp his feet and yell, “Hypocrisy! Hypocrisy! Hypocrisy!” “Kruuuuugman!!”
    “Frances Fox Piiiiiiven!”
    “Koooooosssss!”

    He really just throws as much sewage as he can and tries to see what sticks – that is, what will thoughtful people engage him on.
    He’s here to derail, infuriate and frustrate.
    Don’t let him do it.

    *****

    What do you think about RR’s Economist post? I think a discussion focused on guns may be at hand – and delegitimizing this totem, exposing the fetish for what it is – in the process marginalizing those that think their popguns are going to stave off change – could be hugely beneficial for our democracy.

  49. 77

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Who’s stomping their feet Lib Unscientist? It’s you running away from the truth. Can’t comment on any of the links I used. Yes run away adults are in conversation and you ain’t one of them. You are a big time hypocrite. Adults identify hypocrites. Yes, you are one BIG TIME!

    Unstable liberal progressives should not have guns.

    Clay Duke
    Jared Loughner

    immediately come to mind. Start a constitutional convention call Lib Unscientist since you love to smell Roger Dumb Rabbit’s pellet postings. Call for the change in the constitution. Go ahead!

    The Proseution Rests Your Honor. It really sucks to be Lib Unscientist.

  50. 79

    Zotz sez: This space available! Previous wingnut tenant leaves to spend more time with his goat(s)! spews:

    What do you think about RR’s Economist post? I think a discussion focused on guns may be at hand – and delegitimizing this totem, exposing the fetish for what it is – in the process marginalizing those that think their popguns are going to stave off change – could be hugely beneficial for our democracy.

    The Economist, despite being fucking uber capitalist, is rational.

    You said it: totem, fetish… The whole gun thing is irrational.

    Outside of free speech zones like this blog, and the occasional tsks, tsk from THe Villagers, there will be little or no discussion of even common sense things like keeping people on the terrorist watch list from buying guns or clip size because the the Rs won’t allow it and the Ds are too frightened of the NRA (and other even more extreme orgs like Gun Owners of America and Alan Gottlieb’s orgs in fucking Bellevue) to bring it it up.

    Long sentence short, I wish it were otherwise, but I think we’re going to see much worse before there’s a chance it will get better.

  51. 80

    computer illiterate spews:

    Puttfucker,

    I have trolled the nazi websites you visit. They heap abuse on Krugman’s post and the following Monday column. They do not charge him with “taking most of it down” as you claim. There is some mention at one nazi site about a KOS attack on Giffords (for her vote on the House Caucus leadership position)that was taken down.

    Please provide proof of your assertion.

  52. 81

    Zotz sez: This space available! Previous wingnut tenant leaves to spend more time with his goat(s)! spews:

    Coda to 79:

    I hop Gabby Giffords returns to congress and takes this on.

    I think the ugly remnant of her wound will be a constant reminder of what’s real about guns and may give some of her colleagues some spine to do the right thing.

  53. 82

    Zotz sez: This space available! Previous wingnut tenant leaves to spend more time with his goat(s)! spews:

    @81: hope

  54. 84

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @81, 82

    I had the same thought about Giffords – this could be a defining issue.

    Imagine if she returned to Congress with a shaved head, for all to see the quite literal scars – as metaphor for the scar on our society.

  55. 85

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Hmmm… is computer illiterate the new moniker for Steve? You can see it’s been changed.

    Where did I claim other sites said this?

    Date and Time?
    Citation?
    URL?

    Fascist and Nazi… Didn’t your president chastise people like you Wednesday night? Oh you didn’t understand his speech. Liberalism is a mental disorder!

  56. 86

    Steve spews:

    I posted the following in response to a comment by Deathfrogg at the end of what turned out to be a dead thread.

    @38 “Nobody, and I mean NOBODY can be that stupid”

    I really don’t think it’s so much stupidity as it is mental illness. Perhaps equal portions of both, stewed to a toxic brew. Whatever his problem, there’s no getting through to him.

    I wouldn’t suggest to you what you should do. You strike me as someone who is hugely intelligent. But I will remind you that you’re trying to communicate with someone who has a screw loose and who has spent the last few years of his life posting tens of thousands of hate-filled comments written in the third-person.

    I’ve lost all patience with these people and I will no longer indulge them. At best, I’m wasting my time. At worst, I might provoke a psychotic into a murderous rage. I now have an ignore list. I should have had one a long time ago.

    While I’ve had some kicks here screwing with these people and their feeble minds, it really hasn’t been that much fun. I have more enjoyable and constructive things to do with my time. I can only blame myself for any time I’ve wasted.

    I have only one response to the man who is polluting this thread with his lies and hate.

    “On the ignore list”

  57. 87

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    I have only one response to the man who is polluting this thread with his lies and hate.

    And I have one comment to Steve. Prove it. Look at these links and prove it.

  58. 90

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Hey steve!

    This is rich:

    And I have one comment to Steve. Prove it. Look at these links and prove it.

    I love watching him have a tantrum that no one will give into – the three-year-old is coming out!

    “Prove it!” “Prooooove itttt!”
    “Kruuuugmannnn!”
    “Frances Fox Piveeeennn!”

    *******
    BTW, I sent goldy my email to pass on to you – did you get that?

  59. 91

    Zotz sez: Pudpuller is a danger to itself and others! spews:

    Depersonalization and obsession-compulsion strike deep.

    Feeding the troll known as Pudpuller is both pointless and unethical as it contributes to its further mental illness.

    Seriously, Pudpuller should receive only our pity and deep concern for those immediately around it.

  60. 92

    computer illiterate spews:

    Puttfucker,

    @ Post 64 above you wrote, “BTW your favorite economic kook Krugman has taken down most of his January 8th post on Palin.”

    When politely queried on this remarkable claim, you responded in post 69 above with, “IT’S GONE FOOL! But the conservative web sites have kept it available”. I take it this is what passes for debate in conservative circle jerks.

    Now clearly, Krugman and/or the Times have not taken down “most” of his commentary written on the 8th as you claim, but no matter. You further claim the original version was altered, and that there are, presumably, cached versions of the original available “on conservative websites”.

    So produce one. This is not hard.

  61. 93

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @91

    Agreed, quite.
    I love watching the fact that we’ve all wised up – myself included. It’s a trap.

    Hey, along the lines of right-wing mind control, did anyone hear This American Life last night?

    They explored belief v. knowledge, and how we know, and how we convince – and how using facts with people who believe is nearly useless.

  62. 94

    Steve spews:

    “BTW, I sent goldy my email to pass on to you – did you get that?”

    Not yet. I’ll send a note to Goldy. I did hear from my friend Rujax!. He found my email address in an old email account and contacted me.

  63. 95

    Zotz sez: Pudpuller is a danger to itself and others! spews:

    @90, Lib Sci:

    BTW, I sent goldy my email to pass on to you – did you get that?

    Goldy is apparently not doing email intros. Not sure why.

    I think we need to schedule a meetup. Maybe lunch or dinner somewhere. We’ll (Michael, proud leftist, Steve and/or I) come to you. And I’d like to include Rujax! and Deathfrogg.

    It’s dicey doing this from a thread but let’s try. I’m open next week pretty much anytime except Wednesday evening. Tomorrow would be great.

    Suggest a time and location and I’ll coordinate from our end.

  64. 96

    Steve spews:

    @91 “Seriously, Pudpuller should receive only our pity and deep concern for those immediately around it.”

    I will be glad to discuss these thoughts with you and others but I will not waste my time addressing comments to him.

  65. 97

    Zotz sez: Pudpuller is a danger to itself and others! spews:

    @84, Steve: Note 95. Would you please forward Rujax! email and let me know you have?

  66. 98

    Steve spews:

    “Suggest a time and location and I’ll coordinate from our end.”

    Let me try prodding Goldy one more time.

  67. 100

    Zotz sez: Pudpuller is a danger to itself and others! spews:

    @98: OK, no problem. See what you can do. And ask for Deathfrogg’s email too.

    In parallel, I’ll continue to pursue a meetup otherwise before we (potentially) lose the HA thread opportunity.

  68. 101

    Steve spews:

    @97 Done.

    Did Deathfrogg ever ask to be included? I don’t recall seeing that. I’d be quite pleased, honored even, if he did.

  69. 102

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ 101

    I would, except for the fact that I’m now 100 miles away from Seattle. I could tell you the whole sordid story but the reality is that I’m living on about $150 a month, and probably couldn’t get the gas money.

    At any rate, I’m alright with my email being known to non-spammers and intelligent people.

  70. 103

    Zotz sez: Pudpuller is a danger to itself and others! spews:

    @101 and 102:

    What’s your location, DF?

    Steve and I are about 75 miles away from Seattle by car to the West.

    We’ll spend the money on gas and I pretty sure we can afford a couple beers or whatever too.

    We’d love to meet you. Your call.

  71. 104

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Hey gang – sounds like we’re all pretty spread out. I’m in Seattle.

    Are you guys sure you want to truck in here? If so, that’d be great.

    Tomorrow (Sunday) would be good – I don’t have any plans. Next week I have no evening plans – but my wife’s week starts Wednesday and so evenings after Wed get hectic.

    There’s always Tuesdays at DL. I’ve never been – do you guys go? If tomorrow doesn’t work, then that could be the rally point.

  72. 105

    Deathfrogg spews:

    Ehh, this weekend is all booked up anyway. Pop is up from CA and we’re East of Bellingham. He isn’t leaving till monday and I have a couple more job interviews next week.

    Play it by ear I suppose.

  73. 106

    Zotz sez: Pudpuller is a danger to itself and others! spews:

    @104: Just name a location and time tomorrow and I (at least) will be there.

    The drive home after DL is kind of daunting. But I’ll do it if that’s what works best for you.

    The priority is to collect contact info before we can’t anymore.

  74. 107

    Zotz sez: Pudpuller is a danger to itself and others! spews:

    @105, DF: I wouldn’t mind coming there (especially when the weather’s better) at all. Bellingham / Whatcom is a beautiful place and the drive there and back has lots of possibilities.

    Later next week / weekend? Just name a time and location and I’ll (at least) be there. Won’t cost you a penny.

    In the meantime, send email to Goldy requesting an intro to Zotz and/or Steve.

  75. 110

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @92 Oh, I just want to add that Krugman has a Nobel Prize and puttybutt doesn’t because they don’t give Nobels to idiots.

  76. 111

    Steve spews:

    I’d like to suggest that the last Bible Study post by Goldy look to the words of Jesus. My own thoughts still return to the victims of the Tuscon tragedy, especially young Christina Taylor Green. With thoughts of her, I suggest this passage,

    Matthew 18:3-4 (New King James Version)

    4 Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.”

    or this,

    Matthew 19:14 (New King James Version)

    14 But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”

  77. 112

    Michael spews:

    Right in the middle of the bible belt.

    High school dealing with 90 teen pregnancies
    Fri Jan 14, 11:46AM PT – AP 1:11 | 8565 views
    Among the student body at Frayser High School in Memphis, some 90 girls are pregnant or have already had a baby this school year. That statistic has school officials scrambling to prevent unwanted…
    http://news.yahoo.com/video/us.....s-23852206

  78. 113

    Zotz sez: Pudpuller is a danger to itself and others! spews:

    @111: It won’t be much of a comment thread, but OK:

    Second!*

    *After the obligatory moment of peace and love (I am a DFH after all), I reserve the right to be nasty to trolls. And I suggest we chime in with examples of “christians” not living up to these words.

  79. 114

    Steve spews:

    @104 “Are you guys sure you want to truck in here? If so, that’d be great.”

    I’m always glad to have an excuse to go to Seattle.

  80. 115

    Steve spews:

    “I reserve the right to be nasty to trolls.”

    Without responding to them directly, I believe that I can be very unpleasant while rebutting their lies and rejecting their hate. I don’t think I have to identify them in my comments. I’m experimenting with using “On the ignore list” as the intitial comment, immediately followed with rebuttal and scorn without speaking directly to them.

  81. 116

    Zotz sez: Pudpuller is a danger to itself and others! spews:

    That statistic has school officials scrambling to prevent unwanted…

    More, and more vehement, finger wagging oughtah’ do it!

  82. 118

    Michael spews:

    I’m working on Sunday, but could roll up to Seattle for another drinking liberally on Tuesday.

  83. 119

    Don Joe spews:

    Krugman’s Jan 8th post on the Giffords assassination attempt is here. The cached version is here.

    Note that Krugman took down the comments, but both versions of the post are identical.

    And, once again, rightwing blogs and the HA trolls who parrot them have been proven to be liars.

  84. 120

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Hey gang – had to go do a dump run, and confined by the dictates of ZipCar.

    So – if you guys want to come over here tomorrow – that’s great!
    I would suggest a little venue near my house – the Hilltop Ale House on Queen Anne Ave has great beer and food and atmosphere.

    We could try to see who we get, get contacts established, and maybe try for Tuesday as well, if that works better for others.

    Thoughts?

  85. 121

    Really? spews:

    “@92 Oh, I just want to add that Krugman has a Nobel Prize and puttybutt doesn’t because THEY DON’T GIVE NOBELS TO IDIOTS.”

    Yasser Arafat.

  86. 122

    Michael spews:

    @119

    Right at the bottom of the Krugman piece:

    Update: I’m going to take down comments on this one; they would need a lot of moderating, because the crazies are coming out in force, and it’s all too likely to turn into a flame war.

  87. 125

    Proud to be an Ass spews:

    @122: Yes, that was actually stated by the poster @ 119, and I quote, “Note that Krugman took down the comments”.

    Clue us in on what you are trying to point out here, OK?

  88. 127

    Zotz sez: Pudpuller is a danger to itself and others! spews:

    Rujax!, if you’re lurking I sent you an email.

  89. 130

    Proud to be an Ass spews:

    @126: Mind if I join you? I’ll be the skinny little old guy with the WSU cap yelling, “Rujax, Rujax, where for art thou, Rujax?”

    I have to go into the office anyway. What the heck.

  90. 133

    spews:

    to be fair, there is no connection between shooter and fox news. he didn’t say “sarah told me to do it” and sarah didn’t say “shoot me a representative!”

    so… nice try dems but try harder.

  91. 134

    Zotz sez: Pudpuller is a danger to itself and others! spews:

    @130: Sure! It would my pleasure. Waiting to hear back from Lib Sci on the time.

  92. 135

    proud leftist spews:

    Shoot, gents, I’m in Seattle today and virtually every weekday, but not tomorrow. Need to spend one day at home this week. I do like these plans to gather. Leftists peaceably assemble. Wingnuts come armed. There is a fundamental difference, isn’t there? I’d love to lift a pint with you tomorrow, but will have to wait. Zotz has my contact info. Hasta la victoria siempre!

  93. 136

    Zotz sez: Pudpuller is a danger to itself and others! spews:

    @135: Arms? I come with two arms and I’m leftist! What’s up with that?

    Fear not, PL, martinis, etc. soon. It’s too damn soggy…

  94. 138

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Hey guys – sorry my posting has been intermittent. Been on the honey-do list – with the honey!
    Anyway – anytime, for me it’s three blocks away.

    How about 5?

  95. 139

    zdp 189 spews:

    which is the worse abuse/misuse of language?

    a) Sarah Palin’s use of “blood libel” to describe false accusations connecting her with the Tucson shootings?

    b) Obama admin calling $800,000 spent to teach folks how to wash their genitals as “economic stimulus.”

    It’s purely subjective of course, but I’m going with b as the greater linguistic crime of the two.

  96. 140

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @139

    I dunno, it seems to me that there are probably a lot of teabagger types that need to be shown how to do that.

    Perhaps learning how to touch a dick would help ameliorate their rhetoric a bit.

  97. 141

    Tondaleo Lipshitz spews:

    re 139: And how ’bout all that money spent to set up equipment to monitor earthquakes — wacky!!!!!!!!

    Ignore list.

  98. 142

    proud leftist spews:

    Froggy,
    I went to Deming Grade School in the 1960s. We lived just off the Mount Baker Highway (Highway 9, I believe). As children, we tried to sustain a trout and salmon population in a little stream in our backyard that fed the Nooksack River. It flowed all year when we moved there. That didn’t last. We didn’t know why the creek dried up earlier and earlier every year. As it would dry up in the summers later on, we would scoop up salmonid fry from puddles and move them to bigger puddles, hoping that we might catch them, when they were bigger, next year, if the autumn rains came in time.

    I learned, much later in life, that cutting all the trees on the slopes of the creek’s headwaters mattered. All the rain just rushes down now, with nothing to hold it, stall it, absorb it, for later release. My mother is buried by what used to be that creek. I visit her grave when I’m in Whatcom County, however irrational that might seem. Neither she nor the creek much exists anymore. She exists in the memory of those who loved her, and that’s about all that’s left of the creek. It flows now only when the rain has been particularly heavy; it could not possibly sustain any fish population now, given that it is dry most of the year.

    That’s a Whatcom County memory from a boy who grew up northeast of Bellingham.

  99. 144

    Steve spews:

    A comment from the site linked to @139, which is CNSNews.com, whose parent organization is the wingnut Media Research Center.

    “I hate black bastards”

    Geez, I wonder who left that comment?

  100. 145

    Zotz sez: Pudpuller is a danger to itself and others! spews:

    @138 Lib Sci: No problem. See you at the Hilltop Ale House at 5!

    Look for a fiftyish guy, blonde hair, white beard with a green Ford Ranger.

    Should I ask for “a” Liberal Scientist? (I’m joking since that’s about as common in Seattle as a 50ish blonde haired guy with a Ranger)

    We’ll figure it out.

  101. 149

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ 148

    So, I take it you have an issue with clean genitalia? Or, like most biblethumpers, are you opposed to AIDS research on general principle.

    In some parts of Africa, especially in the southern part of the continent, half the population is infected. Seems to me, that real scientific research through the Public Universities should be a major part of any economic stimulus package.

  102. 150

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Hey guys – just checking in – Ill try to post over on Bible Thread as well (need more coffee for that)

    Anyway – sounds great – so far, Zotz, steve and me, right?

    I’ll try to get there a bit early and get a table, I’m 45ish, brown hair thinning in front, likely have a bright red West Marine rain jacket either on or over the back of the chair.

  103. 151

    reasonable debate spews:

    um, trying to get back to reasonable debate. the conservatives only want to talk about direct causation that’s provable to the level required in a court of law. in this sense, yes, the heated rhetoric off palin etc. didn’t cause the shooter to shoot.

    Liberals are using a broader definition of causation, in which things are viewed as having many causes, all operating together, and it’s virtually impossible to disarticulate them or assign theem precise percentages of operative impact. So the fact the target is political is NOT a coincidence, that makes this political. The fact the target is a dem makes this right wing political violence. The fact the shoot constantly rants about govvernmt takeover of things, the basic theme of the right wing, further makes this a right wing act of violence EVEN THOUGH it’s also the result of a sick mind. The fact that he went after the rep. of the federal government in his district …means it’s anti federal govt. The fact that palin beck hannity et al. have been telling a bunch of liess like obama is a marxist, well if he is then shooting would start to be more justified, no? they say we need our country back etc. all this can have a causal force that’s inferred and for which there is never, ever any real proof. Just like go listen to winston churchill and try to tell us his speeches in ww2 didn’t improve the british nation’s performance in war. Of course words have impact, that’s why we have advertising, duh! And you don’t have to have proof at an individual level to know if ads work, you lookk ata general level. Same wi govt. rhetoric; constantly saying our govt. is taken over, and we need second amendment solutions, by the party that btw favors guns, likes to have people wear guns and led all efforts against gun control, why it becomes fairly silly to argue that all this rhetoric has NO causal impact on people including deranged people. Because to say that is to say it’s all JUST A COINCIDENCE that he short a politican, and it’s JUST A COINCIDENCE that he shot a democrat, and it’s JUST A COINCIDENCE she voted for health care and already was a target of violence he likely knew about and it’s JUST A COINCIDENCE his “crazy action” was shooting…rather than, say, writing her love letters taalking about dreams. Thus this is the same debate the right wing has with the left wing over social causes of low income. To the right wing, if a population is all from a big urban ghetto marked with gunfire every day that gets the crappy teachers where nobody has much education and the schools suck big time and drug dealers rule the streets then if that student doesn’t go to Harvard it’s for lack of individual effort NOT SOCIAL CAUSES that operate on a group….in fact, the right wing can’t ever admit there are SOCIAL CAUSES OF THINGS because then they’d have to admit SOCIAL SOLUTIONS TO THINGS ARE NEEDED.

    Remember, the righties don’t even admit that gun control works to make safety, despite stats like Fareed Z. said today: UK has 6 guns for every 100 people and USA 80 and USa has a murder rate 44 times that of Britain and there is a relationship that is causal. This kind of causality is simply dismissed by right wingers for whom there are no social cuases, ever (guns dhn’t kill people, people kill people….one of the biggest falsehoods ever because literally in every GUN death it IS THE BULLET SHOT BY THE GUN THAT KILLS THE PERSON it’s not usually the person wielding the gun who then strangles the victim. But the right just repeats it all so much, despite the fact it’s not true, that today most of us have accepted this as truth and the result is we are the only nation with this horrible record of gunmayhem (well, Mexico now has it too, besting us, really, but their guns come from us. Talk about illegal border crossings destroying a society, we’re guilty of way more, morally, than the Mexicans are).

  104. 152

    drool spews:

    @149 Deathfrogg

    Don’t you realize the answers are already in the Bible and we don’t need all that science stuff?