The apparent disconnect between the two positions is cleared up when you realize that when Mr. Giuliani was talking about illegal immigration in the earlier speech, it was before our current government had come into power.
(Please excuse the cut-and-paste from my earlier post.)
“We have to just accept that if we want to be the kind of country that we are”
This was in 1996.
In 1996, we didn’t have the government violating the Geneva conventions.
In 1996, we didn’t have our Central Intelligence Agency running secret prisons overseas.
In 1996, Guantanamo was just another Navy base, whose primary purpose was annoying Fidel Castro.
In 1996, we were getting closer to a balance federal budget.
In 1996, inactive military reservists were not threatened with Courts-Martial for participating in protests.
In 1996, we didn’t have the executive branch claiming the right to spy on US citizens.
Mr Giuliani was speaking truthfully in both cases. If we want to be the kind of country we were in 1996 (or hopefully even a better country) then we cannot fully end illegal immigration.
We can control it better, we can do things to reduce the temptation to come here illegally, we can work with other countries to get them to help, but in a free, open and wealthy society, we will never completely end it.
Or, we can become a police state where the government spies on citizens (done), requires photo id (getting there), holds citizens without trial (been tried), threatens anyone that protests (done), runs our economy into the ground and exerts a level of control that would make Stalin proud.
If we’re willing to accept that, then we can end illegal immigration.
After all, people weren’t exactly clamoring to get into the Soviet Union, either.
2
Daddy Lovespews:
Speaking of all things Rudy (read: please don’t delete this), y’all should read Fred Kaplan’s takedown of Rudy’s big foreign policy article. It’s tremendous:
John Barelli spews:
The apparent disconnect between the two positions is cleared up when you realize that when Mr. Giuliani was talking about illegal immigration in the earlier speech, it was before our current government had come into power.
(Please excuse the cut-and-paste from my earlier post.)
This was in 1996.
In 1996, we didn’t have the government violating the Geneva conventions.
In 1996, we didn’t have our Central Intelligence Agency running secret prisons overseas.
In 1996, Guantanamo was just another Navy base, whose primary purpose was annoying Fidel Castro.
In 1996, we were getting closer to a balance federal budget.
In 1996, inactive military reservists were not threatened with Courts-Martial for participating in protests.
In 1996, we didn’t have the executive branch claiming the right to spy on US citizens.
Mr Giuliani was speaking truthfully in both cases. If we want to be the kind of country we were in 1996 (or hopefully even a better country) then we cannot fully end illegal immigration.
We can control it better, we can do things to reduce the temptation to come here illegally, we can work with other countries to get them to help, but in a free, open and wealthy society, we will never completely end it.
Or, we can become a police state where the government spies on citizens (done), requires photo id (getting there), holds citizens without trial (been tried), threatens anyone that protests (done), runs our economy into the ground and exerts a level of control that would make Stalin proud.
If we’re willing to accept that, then we can end illegal immigration.
After all, people weren’t exactly clamoring to get into the Soviet Union, either.
Daddy Love spews:
Speaking of all things Rudy (read: please don’t delete this), y’all should read Fred Kaplan’s takedown of Rudy’s big foreign policy article. It’s tremendous:
http://www.slate.com/id/2172285/nav/tap1/
Can you believe that in 7 pages he mentions al Qaeda only once and Pakistan not at all?