Rove confirmed Plame was CIA

The NY Times reports today that Karl Rove spoke with Robert Novak as he was preparing his column outing Valerie Plame as a CIA operative, but that he claims he merely confirmed Novak’s information. Novak had credited two unidentified White House officials as the source for his story.

Mr. Rove has told investigators that he learned from the columnist the name of the C.I.A. officer, who was referred to by her maiden name, Valerie Plame, and the circumstances in which her husband, former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, traveled to Africa to investigate possible uranium sales to Iraq, the person said.

After hearing Mr. Novak’s account, the person who has been briefed on the matter said, Mr. Rove told the columnist: “I heard that, too.”

Of course, the White House had previously said that it was “ridiculous” to suggest that Rove had leaked information on Plame, and now it has apparently been confirmed that he was a source for both Novak and Time Magazine’s Matt Cooper. Whether Rove’s testimony contradicts that of others (or other evidence,) remains to be seen.

But again, regardless of whether Rove was the primary source, or technically violated any laws, there is little question that he played a part in blowing the cover of both a CIA operative and a front corporation, as part of a campaign to discredit and punish Plame’s husband, Ambassador Joseph Wilson. This is not the sort of behavior that should be acceptable from a top White House official.

UPDATE:
Americablog points out that Novak’s previous public statements contradict Rove’s reported testimony:

Novak, in an interview, said his sources had come to him with the information. “I didn’t dig it out, it was given to me,” he said. “They thought it was significant, they gave me the name and I used it.”

So somebody’s lying.

Comments

  1. 1

    Baynative spews:

    BLITZER: But the other argument that’s been made against you is that you’ve sought to capitalize on this extravaganza, having that photo shoot with your wife, who was a clandestine officer of the CIA, and that you’ve tried to enrich yourself writing this book and all of that.

    What do you make of those accusations, which are serious accusations, as you know, that have been leveled against you.

    WILSON: My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity.

    BLITZER: But she hadn’t been a clandestine officer for some time before that?

    WILSON: That’s not anything that I can talk about. And, indeed, I’ll go back to what I said earlier, the CIA believed that a possible crime had been committed, and that’s why they referred it to the Justice Department. She was not a clandestine officer at the time that that article in Vanity Fair appeared.

  2. 2

    GeoCrackr spews:

    And, I would like to add, the faux scandals regarding Wilson’s credibility (he was, after all, correct about Iraq not attempting to purchase Nigerian uranium) or Plame’s nepotism (she did not have the authority to send Wilson anywhere except to the grocery) or Plame’s undercover status (the CIA has confirmed her now-former undercover status repeatedly) are IRRELEVANT! The real scandal is the WH attempt to cover up the web of lies that led to the invasion of Iraq by planting classified information in the press, undermining U.S. efforts to control actual WMDs.

  3. 3

    rujax206 spews:

    Yeah, right.

    The moment Novak or whoever told him opened their big yap in a treasonous effort to discredit Joe Wilson and bolster this amoral administration’s trumped-up case for WAR (for gawd’s sake)…THAT was the moment she was no longer a covert agent.

    Key distiction, O’ professional word parsers; neither SHE nor the Agency she worked for disclosed her operational status. It was disclosed by a third party. That third party is a traitor to this nation and should be dealt with accordingly.

    Flame on my RW brothers and sisters, but it is what it is and these people you defend are proving they are no longer worth the effort.

  4. 4

    Another TJ spews:

    Baynative,

    Thank you for posting that. As Wilson points out, when Novak (doing Rove’s dirty work) blew her cover, she could never be a covert agent again. That transcript underscores the depths to which these despicable people regularly sink. Thank you.

  5. 5

    christmasghost spews:

    wow….good crawdad move. back-peddle as fast as you can. so karl rove isn’t guilty of anything …except being a better political architect than any democrat?
    ha ha ha ha ha……….
    oh, this is too rich. told you so.

  6. 6

    GeoCrackr spews:

    Ignorant Jackass @1

    “Clandestine agent” has a very specific meaning in the CIA, and Wilson was correct – his wife was not an agent operating in the field (overseas) when Novak outed her.

  7. 7

    GeoCrackr spews:

    Ignorant Jackass @5

    No one said he isn’t guilty of anything. That remains to be seen.

  8. 8

    Puddybud spews:

    Isn’t it illegal to leak Grand Jury testimony? Hmmm…? Matt Cooper (Time) said in his notes Rove didn’t call him. He called Rove! Did you read the Cooper notes?

    Another TJ & Rujax: Looks like you need help like DJ. Aldrich Ames did that. He is the treasonous person! Go back to the older Goldy post: In 1997, Plame moved back to the Washington area, partly because (as was recently reported in The New York Times) the C.I.A. suspected that her name may have been on a list given to the Russians by the double agent Aldrich Ames in 1994.

    As Mrs. Wilson rose in the agency, she was already in transition away from undercover work to management, and to liaison roles with other intelligence agencies. So this year, even before she was outed, she was moving away from “noc” — which means non-official cover, like pretending to be a business executive. After passing as an energy analyst for Brewster-Jennings & Associates, a C.I.A. front company, she was switching to a new cover as a State Department official, affording her diplomatic protection without having “C.I.A.” stamped on her forehead.

    link: foi.missouri.edu/iipa/secrets.html – NY Slimes editorial.

  9. 9

    pbj spews:

    Ny Time. Well there is an unbiased source for you – NOT! See July 25,2004 editorial by NYT Public editor Daniel Okrant where he admits the New York Times is a liberal rag.

  10. 10

    marks spews:

    Goldy,

    I think this issue is sufficiently murky. The Washington Post editorializes on the subject and hits Rove and McClellan for the obvious reasons.

    Bottom line, IMO, Wilson was a self-aggrandizing fool, so typical of Washington bureaucrats. IOW – businesspolitics as usual…

  11. 11

    JDB spews:

    And don’t forget, Rove lied and had the Whitehouse Press Secretary lie for him for the last two years. Up until his last week, his lawyer was issuing statements that had to be parsed for the truth. Obviously Rove and his lawyer think he was guilty of something.

  12. 12

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    You HA Rove conspiratories are laughable. You want to convict Rove of the crime and as the true investigation continues to occur, the real truth core appears and the MSM is forced to truthfully investigate the issue. Many of us right side thinkers have asked to allow the Special Prosecutor to perform his due diligence. But Noooooo, we need Rove’s head since he is “Bush’s brain” per “Bush’s Brain: How Karl Rove Made George W. Bush Presidential by James C. Moore & Wayne Slater” on Amazon.

    You demand that McClellan covered this up. Real people do not comment on grand jury proceedings. Having served on grand jury proceedings, you are not to talk about them until the case is fully settled.

  13. 13

    pbj spews:

    And, I would like to add, the faux scandals regarding Wilson’s credibility (he was, after all, correct about Iraq not attempting to purchase Nigerian uranium) or Plame’s nepotism (she did not have the authority to send Wilson anywhere except to the grocery) or Plame’s undercover status (the CIA has confirmed her now-former undercover status repeatedly) are IRRELEVANT!

    Wilsons lying is indeed quite relevant
    Fact: Wilson’s wife did play a key role in seing that hubby wne over there to investigate what Valaire Plame called ‘that crazy report’. Sounds like they made up their minds BEFORE they even went over there. That is not a seriuos attitude that I would want a CPD WMD person to have when investigating transactions between Iraq and Niger – a country whose main export IS yellow cake!

    Fact: Wilson claimed Cheney’s office had sent him over there- that was shown to be a lie!

    The real scandal here is the lying Wilson and his Allies in the liberal media wasting so much of the public’s time with this non-scandal. Even the prosecutor’s office admits that Rove is not a target of the investigation. So until there is an indictment or a conviction, there is only Democrat liberal mouth frothing and hot air.

    If you want to talk about actual convictions, we can talk about the Democrat party in St Louis that WAS convicted of undermining our democracy, our sacred right to vote – the very foundations of our democracy by vote fraud. Democrat want to change the subject though because while they are actually being CONVICTED of REAL crimes, they and their media allies want the distrack the public with faux crimes.

    Here is the link to the CONVICTED members of the Democrat party undermining the foundation of our democracy:

    http://www.stltoday.com/stltod.....enDocument

    When liberals can come up with a link (a real one, not a fake libby one from a leftwing wish site) where Karl Rove has been convicted, then I will listen seriously!

  14. 15

    Puddybud spews:

    Geocrakr@14: You are wrong at all counts. The British said that Saddam’s agent did go to Niger looking for the raw cake! Do you need that link too?

  15. 16

    GeoCrackr spews:

    PEANUTBUTTERJELLYTIMEpeanutbutterjellytime!!!

    You’re mom let you out of the playroom again? So not only do you cite Faux News as a credible source, but you just can’t resist lying outright in the face of all available evidence.

    Oh, and in case you haven’t noticed, none of us live in St. Louis, so quit trying to change the subject.

  16. 18

    GeoCrackr spews:

    Ignorant Jackass @15

    You mean the British report that based it’s conclusion on the badly-forged Italian document? Yes, please post the link.

  17. 19

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    Geocrakr – You already convicted him. Your posts prove that point. Even if the SP proves him guilt-free, you will never accept it. Joe Wilson was forced to recant much on his “book”. Wolf Blitzer disembled him on national TV. Thanks PBJ. Aldrich Ames did the treasonous act on his wife. Thanks Puddy.

  18. 21

    marks spews:

    GeoCrackr @all

    From today’s Washington Post “[…]Britain’s Butler Commission and the Senate intelligence committee — demonstrated that Mr. Wilson’s portrayal of himself as a whistle-blower was unwarranted. It turned out his report to the CIA had not altered, and may even have strengthened, the agency’s conclusion that Iraq had explored uranium purchases from Niger.

    Wilson is a hack…

  19. 22

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    It now appears Rove played the “Deep Throat” role in Novak’s story — he was the source who confirmed Novak’s info. Let’s see if the rightys who criticized Mark Felt say it’s okay when a Repug does it. Of course they will — fucking hypocrites.

    By the way, right wingers have accused Wilson of everything from pedophilia to being a child molester, demonstrating what subhuman garbage some wingers really are.

    And, of course, let’s not forget that Wilson was right all along — Bush was lying when he told the American public that Saddam tried to get uranium from Niger for nuclear weapons. Saddam didn’t even have a nuclear program.

  20. 23

    HRH spews:

    pbj @ 9

    I would have to take issue with you here, not on your assertion (or Okrent’s) that the NY Times is a “liberal” paper (which I don’t think it is, read on…), but rather on the presumption that there might be something we could call “objective” journalism.

    Personally, I don’t think this exists: even if a news organization were exceptionally careful in choosing its words, presenting both sides of the story, etc., editorial decisions are still made as to what stories get published AND where they appear. For instance, burying a story on the Downing Street Memo on, say, page 29 with a title suggesting it to be merely a British political issue DOES say something about that organizations editorial positions. And this is something the NY Times does do, and that certainly would not be indicative of a “liberal” paper; no, they’d have such information on page 1.

    If you really want to find out what liberal vs. conservative “bias” might be, then read a few British papers: start with the Guardian (left), work your way through the Independent to the Times (center-right) and stop with, perhaps, the Sun (right). Might be a good education for anyone bellyaching about “liberal media bias”. Of course, the rest of the world would just look at this as a paper’s editorial position, which is expected of their media by millions of Europeans, regardless of their political orientation.

    If we really cared about restoring “objectivity” to our media, then I’d say bring back the Fairness Doctrine. From the volume of complaints, it would seem that the right wing would have the most to gain, ironically enough.

  21. 24

    Puddybud spews:

    news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1087373295039 – But then again do you subscribe?

    Wilson did find the evidence on the British claim. He was asked to change it by someone. During live testimony, Wilson was called on it by the committee about his change. He says he may have mistaken the dates. Also look at the Senate Intelligence report on Niger. So Geocrakr – you will need to recheck your facts after the MSM links. I noted that there hasn’t been much on this after the July 2004 posing of the Senate Report!

    More on Valerie Plame lack of under cover status:
    foi.missouri.edu/iipa/nocnoc.html

    Excerpt:Fred Rustmann, a former CIA official who put in 24 years as a spymaster and was Plame’s boss for a few years, says Plame worked under official cover in Europe in the early 1990s — say, as a U.S. embassy attache — before switching to nonofficial cover a few years later. Mostly Plame posed as a business analyst or a student in what Rustmann describes as a “nice European city.” Plame was never a so-called deep-cover NOC, he said, meaning the agency did not create a complex cover story about her education, background, job, personal life and even hobbies and habits that would stand up to intense scrutiny by foreign governments. “[NOCs] are on corporate rolls, and if anybody calls the corporation, the secretary says, ‘Yeah, he works for us,'” says Rustmann. “The degree of backstopping to a NOC’s cover is a very good indication of how deep that cover really is.

  22. 25

    HRH spews:

    21

    “Wilson is a hack… ”

    You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, but it is not relevant to the larger issue: divulging classified information dealing with national security. I thought the Repubs were all about national security — you know the war on terror and all — and would be taking at least a tiny bit of umbrage that national security might, just might, have been violated. I mean, they want us to believe that they aggressively do defend our national security, so why don’t they aggressively investigate such potential violations thereof? You can’t be the aggressive defenders of national security and simultaneously dismiss allegations against Rove in an offhand manner. You just can’t have it both ways.

    Look at what they’ve been doing instead: spinning the situation to try to frame it as a partisan political attack from the Dems. Bullshit. That’s politics, and if you didn’t expect the Dems to take a political shot when there’s an opening, you’d have to be pretty damn naive — the Repubs would too, and do it all the time.

    On the substance of the matter, i.e. the criminal investigation, they’ve become remarkably tight-lipped this past week. Is that sending some sort of message as to the gravity of the issue here?

    Reminder: this is bigger than Wilson, his wife (whether or not you choose to name her), Novak, etc. This is a side story in the Iraq saga. And if that hasn’t become a national security issue since 2003, well then I don’t know what has.

  23. 26

    Puddybud spews:

    RR said: “By the way, right wingers have accused Wilson of everything from pedophilia to being a child molester, demonstrating what subhuman garbage some wingers really are.” Where is the link for that?

  24. 27

    Demographa spews:

    Hey, everybody, I have a question. Please don’t call me mean names just for asking.

    We all agree that Wilson went to Niger on the government’s dime, at the request of the CIA/State Department, whether his wife was behind it or not.

    Isn’t it a little slimy for a person to go on a mission for the CIA and then come home and write a New York Times opinion piece about it? I have to think that before leaving Wilson would have agreed to keep his mouth shut about the mission and disseminate his conclusions through normal channels.

    The bipartisan commission who looked into this affair determined that Wilson lied in the Op-Ed about what he found out in Niger and put in his report, and lied when he said in 2003 that his wife had nothing to do with his being sent on the mission. Now he admits that she wasn’t undercover at the time Novak wrote his piece. This is what I was speculating on HA over a week ago. Who’d have thought I might be right?

    Meanwhile, it turns out that Rove was telling the truth in 2003 when he said Wilson’s wife recommended him for the trip, and that his op-ed didn’t jive with the report he submitted.

    So who is the dishonest one here? Aren’t you HA people working under a double standard? Furthermore, how can you say there is a coverup going on, when Rove gave Novak, Cooper, and Wilson permission, in writing, to reveal him as a source over two years ago? What is being covered up? And in light of this grant of permission, why is Judith Miller sitting in jail?

    Huh? Why? Why?

    One thing I was certainly wrong about. I said this story would be dead over a week ago. But I have a feeling that the unraveling isn’t the unraveling you guys were hoping for. Gee, maybe somebody else will end up getting frogmarched!

  25. 28

    Baynative spews:

    With all the highly educated and super rich elitists running the democrat party it seems they should be able to put their collective heads together and come up with just one positive and productive thing …at least one constructive idea to run on.

    Are they just void of ideas? Maybe the party of Michael Moore, and Howard Dean has decided that running on a platform of jealousy and resentment is enough for their followers.

  26. 29

    pbj spews:

    Geo@16,

    You’re mom let you out of the playroom again? So not only do you cite Faux News as a credible source, but you just can’t resist lying outright in the face of all available evidence.

    Oh, and in case you haven’t noticed, none of us live in St. Louis, so quit trying to change the subject.

    You have provided NO evidence that Rove has been even indicted on any charges. I think your blood sugar is low again, you keep rambling on. Perhaps you need a sandwich.

  27. 30

    IDGAF spews:

    Hmmmmm..Let’s have a look at Joe Wilson’s “credibility” shall we. Seems even the Senate select committee on Intelligence and 10 of the most influential Democrats agree..He has very little.
    On a personal note, watching and listening to the far left as this story plays out and the lefts arguments literally fall apart in front of you is entertainment (and assurance of yet more Republican election victories)that money could never buy!
    Attack-Defame-Smear, the only thing Democrats have left to offer the United States and the majority of American people see this very clearly. We all have a front row seat to watch the modern day Democratic party implode. Which truly is sad as we need a resonable, intelligent, sane and responsible 2 party system to pursue the betterment of all.

    1.) Wilson Insisted That The Vice President’s Office Sent Him To Niger:

    Wilson Said He Traveled To Niger At CIA Request To Help Provide Response To Vice President’s Office. “In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. … The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office.” (Joseph C. Wilson, Op-Ed, “What I Didn’t Find In Africa,” The New York Times, 7/6/03)

    Joe Wilson: “[W]hat They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libby’s Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself …” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 8/3/03)
    Vice President Cheney: “I Don’t Know Joe Wilson. I’ve Never Met Joe Wilson. … And Joe Wilson – I Don’t [Know] Who Sent Joe Wilson. He Never Submitted A Report That I Ever Saw When He Came Back.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 9/14/03)

    CIA Director George Tenet: “In An Effort To Inquire About Certain Reports Involving Niger, CIA’s Counter-Proliferation Experts, On Their Own Initiative, Asked An Individual With Ties To The Region To Make A Visit To See What He Could Learn.” (Central Intelligence Agency, “Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,” Press Release, 7/11/03)

    2.) Wilson Claimed The Vice President And Other Senior White House Officials Were Briefed On His Niger Report:

    “[Wilson] Believed That [His Report] Would Have Been Distributed To The White House And That The Vice President Received A Direct Response To His Question About The Possible Uranium Deal.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

    The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Reported That The Vice President Was Not Briefed On Wilson’s Report. “Conclusion 14. The Central Intelligence Agency should have told the Vice President and other senior policymakers that it had sent someone to Niger to look into the alleged Iraq-Niger uranium deal and it should have briefed the Vice President on the former ambassador’s findings.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

    CIA Director George Tenet: “Because This Report, In Our View, Did Not Resolve Whether Iraq Was Or Was Not Seeking Uranium From Abroad, It Was Given A Normal And Wide Distribution, But We Did Not Brief It To The President, Vice-President Or Other Senior Administration Officials.” (Central Intelligence Agency, “Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,” Press Release, 7/11/03)

    3.) Wilson Has Claimed His Niger Report Was Conclusive And Significant

    Wilson Claims His Trip Proved There Was Nothing To The Uranium “Allegations.” “I knew that [Dr. Rice] had fundamentally misstated the facts. In fact, she had lied about it. I had gone out and I had undertaken this study. I had come back and said that this was not feasible. … This government knew that there was nothing to these allegations.” (NBC’s, “Meet The Press,” 5/2/04)

    Officials Said Evidence In Wilson’s Niger Report Was “Thin” And His “Homework Was Shoddy.” (Michael Duffy, “Leaking With A Vengeance,” Time, 10/13/03)

    Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: “Conclusion 13. The Report On The Former Ambassador’s Trip To Niger, Disseminated In March 2002, Did Not Change Any Analysts’ Assessments Of The Iraq-Niger Uranium Deal.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
    “For Most Analysts, The Information In The Report Lent More Credibility To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Report On The Uranium Deal, But State Department Bureau Of Intelligence And Research (INR) Analysts Believed That The Report Supported Their Assessments That Niger Was Unlikely To Be Willing Or Able To Sell Uranium.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
    CIA Said Wilson’s Findings Did Not Resolve The Issue. “Because [Wilson’s] report, in our view, did not resolve whether Iraq was or was not seeking uranium from abroad, it was given a normal and wide distribution, but we did not brief it to the president, vice president or other senior administration officials. We also had to consider that the former Nigerien officials knew that what they were saying would reach the U.S. government and that this might have influenced what they said.” (Central Intelligence Agency, “Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,” Press Release 7/11/03)

    The Butler Report Claimed That The President’s State Of the Union Statement On Uranium From Africa, “Was Well-Founded.” “We conclude that, on the basis of the intelligence assessments at the time, covering both Niger and the Democratic Republic of Congo, the statements on Iraqi attempts to buy uranium from Africa in the Government’s dossier, and by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, were well-founded. By extension, we conclude also that the statement in President Bush’s State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that: ‘The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.’ was well-founded.” (The Rt. Hon. The Lord Butler Of Brockwell, “Review Of Intelligence, On Weapons Of Mass Destruction,” 7/14/04)

    4.) Wilson Denied His Wife Suggested He Travel To Niger In 2002:

    Wilson Claimed His Wife Did Not Suggest He Travel To Niger To Investigate Reports Of Uranium Deal; Instead, Wilson Claims It Came Out Of Meeting With CIA. CNN’s Wolf Blitzer: “Among other things, you had always said, always maintained, still maintain your wife, Valerie Plame, a CIA officer, had nothing to do with the decision to send to you Niger to inspect reports that uranium might be sold from Niger to Iraq. … Did Valerie Plame, your wife, come up with the idea to send you to Niger?” Joe Wilson: “No. My wife served as a conduit, as I put in my book. When her supervisors asked her to contact me for the purposes of coming into the CIA to discuss all the issues surrounding this allegation of Niger selling uranium to Iraq.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 7/18/04)

    But Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Received Not Only Testimony But Actual Documentation Indicating Wilson’s Wife Proposed Him For Trip. “Some CPD, [CIA Counterproliferation Division] officials could not recall how the office decided to contact the former ambassador, however, interviews and documents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD employee, suggested his name for the trip. The CPD reports officer told Committee staff that the former ambassador’s wife ‘offered up his name’ and a memorandum to the Deputy Chief of the CPD on February 12, 2002, from the former ambassador’s wife says, ‘my husband has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.’” (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)
    5.) Wilson Has Claimed His 1999 Trip To Niger Was Not Suggested By His Wife:

    Wilson Claims CIA Thought To Ask Him To Make Trip Because He Had Previously Made Trip For Them In 1999, Not Because Of His Wife’s Suggestion. CNN’s Wolf Blitzer: “Who first raised your name, then, based on what you know? Who came up with the idea to send you there?” Joe Wilson: “The CIA knew my name from a trip, and it’s in the report, that I had taken in 1999 related to uranium activities but not related to Iraq. I had served for 23 years in government including as Bill Clinton’s Senior Director for African Affairs at the National Security Council. I had done a lot of work with the Niger government during a period punctuated by a military coup and a subsequent assassination of a president. So I knew all the people there.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 7/18/04)

    In Fact, His Wife Suggested Him For 1999 Trip, As Well. “The former ambassador had traveled previously to Niger on the CIA’s behalf … The former ambassador was selected for the 1999 trip after his wife mentioned to her supervisors that her husband was planning a business trip to Niger in the near future and might be willing to use his contacts in the region …” (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)

    6.) Wilson Claimed He Was A Victim Of A Partisan Smear Campaign

    Joe Wilson: “Well, I Don’t Know. Obviously, There’s Been This Orchestrated Campaign, This Smear Campaign. I Happen To Think That It’s Because The RNC, The Republican National Committee’s Been Involved In This In A Big Way …” CNN’s Wolf Blitzer: “But They Weren’t Involved In The Senate Intelligence Committee Report.” Wilson: “No, They Weren’t.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 7/18/04)

    Senate Intelligence Committee Unanimously Concluded That Wilson’s Report “Lent More Credibility” For Most Analysts “To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Reports.” “Conclusion 13. The report on the former ambassador’s trip to Niger, disseminated in March 2002, did not change any analysts’ assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on the uranium deal, but the State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) analysts believed that the report supported their assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq.” (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)

    Members Of The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence That Wrote The Unanimous “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq”:

    Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV)

    Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI)

    Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)

    Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR)

    Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL)

    Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN)

    Sen. John Edwards (D-NC)

    Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD)

    Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS)

    Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT)

    Sen. Mike DeWine (R-OH)

    Sen. Christopher Bond (R-MO)

    Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS)

    Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME)

    Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE)

    Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA)

    Sen. John Warner (R-VA)

    (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)

    7.) A Month Before The Bob Novak And Matthew Cooper Articles Ever Came Out, Wilson Told The Washington Post That Previous Intelligence Reports About Niger Were Based On Forged Documents:

    In June Of 2003, Wilson Told The Washington Post “The Niger Intelligence Was Based On Documents That Had Clearly Been Forged Because ‘The Dates Were Wrong And The Names Were Wrong.’” (Susan Schmidt, “Plame’s Input Is Cited On Niger Mission,” The Washington Post, 7/10/04)

    However, “The [Senate Select Committee On Intelligence] Report … Said Wilson Provided Misleading Information To The Washington Post Last June [12th, 2003].” (Susan Schmidt, “Plame’s Input Is Cited On Niger Mission,” The Washington Post, 7/10/04)

    Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: “The Former Ambassador Said That He May Have ‘Misspoken’ To The Reporter When He Said He Concluded The Documents Were ‘Forged.’” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
    8.) Wilson Claimed His Book Would Enrich Debate:

    NBC’s Katie Couric: “What Do You Hope The Whole Point Of This Book Will Be? Joe Wilson: “Well, I – I Hope, One, It Will Tell – It Tries To Tell An Interesting Story. Two, I Hope That It Enriches The Debate In A Year In Which We Are All Called Upon As Americans To Elect Our Leaders. And Three, … That [It] Says That This Is A Great Democracy That Is Worthy Of Our Taking Our Responsibilities As Stewards Seriously.” (NBC’s “Today Show,” 5/3/04)

    Wilson Admits In His Book That He Had Been Involved In “A Little Literary Flair” When Talking To Reporters. “[Wilson] wrote in his book, he told Committee staff that his assertion may have involved ‘a little literary flair.’” (Matthew Continetti, “‘A Little Literary Flair’” The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04)

    Wilson’s Book The Politics Of Truth: Inside The Lies That Put The White House On Trial And Betrayed My Wife’s CIA Identity Has Been Panned In Numerous Reviews For Its Inaccuracies:

    “On Page One Of Chapter One, He Quotes NBC Talk Show Host Chris Matthews, Who Told Him That, After Mr. Wilson Chose To Go Public: ‘Wilson’s Wife Is Fair Game.’ Later, He Bases His List Of Suspect Leakers On Conversations With Members Of The News Media And A ‘Source Close To The House Judiciary Committee.’” (Eli Lake, Op-Ed, “Don’t Quit Your Day Job, Mr. Wilson,” New York Post, 5/4/04)

    “For Example, When Asked How He ‘Knew’ That The Intelligence Community Had Rejected The Possibility Of A Niger-Iraq Uranium Deal, As He Wrote In His Book, He Told [Senate Intelligence] Committee Staff That His Assertion May Have Involved ‘A Little Literary Flair.’” (Matthew Continetti, “‘A Little Literary Flair,’” The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04)

    The Boston Globe: “In Essence, Much Of Wilson’s Book Is An Attempt To Portray The Bush Administration As A Ministry Of Fear Whose Mission In Pursuing War In Iraq Required It To Proclaim A Lie As Truth.” (Michael D. Langan, Op-Ed, “‘Truth’ Makes Much Of Bush Controversy,” The Boston Globe, 5/4/04)

    Newsweek’s Evan Thomas Wrote In The Washington Post: “[W]ilson’s Claims And Conclusions Are Either Long Hashed Over Or Based On What The Intelligence Business Describes As ‘Rumint,’ Or Rumor Intelligence.” (Evan Thomas, Op-Ed, “Indecent Exposure,” The Washington Post, 5/16/04)
    9.) Wilson Claimed The CIA Provided Him With Information Related To The Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction:

    “The Former Ambassador Noted That His CIA Contacts Told Him There Were Documents Pertaining To The Alleged Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction And That The Source Of The Information Was The [Redacted] Intelligence Service.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

    However, “The DO [Director Of Operations At The CIA] Reports Officer Told Committee Staff That He Did Not Provide The Former Ambassador With Any Information About The Source Or Details …” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
    10.) Wilson Claimed He Is A Non-Partisan “Centrist”:
    Recently, Joe Wilson Refused To Admit He Is A Registered Democrat. NBC’s Jamie Gangel: “You are a Democrat?” Joe Wilson: “I exercise my rights as a citizen of this country to participate in the selection of my leaders and I am proud to do so. I did so in the election in 2000 by contributing not just to Al Gore’s campaign, but also to the Bush-Cheney campaign.” (NBC’s “Today Show,” 7/14/05)

    “[Wilson] Insist[s] He Remained A Centrist At Heart.” (Scott Shane, “Private Spy And Public Spouse Live At Center Of Leak Case,” The New York Times, 7/5/05)

    Joe Wilson Is A Registered Democrat. (District Of Columbia Voter Registrations, Accessed 7/14/05)

    Joseph Wilson Has Donated Over $8,000 To Democrats Including $2,000 To John Kerry For President In 2003, $1,000 To Hillary Clinton’s (D-NY) HILLPAC In 2002 And $3,000 To Al Gore In 1999. (The Center For Responsive Politics Website, http://www.opensecrets.org, Accessed 7/12/05)

    Wilson Endorsed John Kerry For President In October 2003 And Advised The Kerry Campaign. (David Tirrell-Wysocki, “Former Ambassador Wilson Endorses Kerry In Presidential Race,” The Associated Press, 10/23/03)

    “[Wilson] Admits ‘It Will Be A Cold Day In Hell Before I Vote For A Republican, Even For Dog Catcher.’” (Scott Shane, “Private Spy And Public Spouse Live At Center Of Leak Case,” The New York Times, 7/5/05)

  28. 31

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Hope springs eternal for the little lib girlyboys – you keep hoping GBs, we’ll keep running the country.

  29. 32

    pbj spews:

    Roger@22,

    By the way, right wingers have accused Wilson of everything from pedophilia to being a child molester, demonstrating what subhuman garbage some wingers really are.

    Please provide proof that anyone here ever accused Wilson of being a pedophile or child molester. It should be quit eeasy to go back and copy the posts.

    I am waiting…….

  30. 33

    Demographa spews:

    DAYUM, IDGAF!

    Lots of good information in your post. It’s good that someone else is also trying to steer this site into using logic and well-sourced facts as opposed to vicious name calling (ie. Goldy and Roger Rabbit)

    But it’s too long! Now no one will read my brilliant post at 27!

  31. 34

    pbj spews:

    HRH@23,

    You bring up a good point about objectivity and that everyone has biases that inevitably slip through in their writings.

    However, you are totally way off base with regards to the NYT. They are most admittedly liberal. To quote Daniel Okrent (who declares himself a partisan Democrat) “If you think this paper play it straight down the middle on any of these issues, you have been reading it with your eyes closed.”

  32. 35

    pbj spews:

    HRH@25,

    I mean, they want us to believe that they aggressively do defend our national security, so why don’t they aggressively investigate such potential violations thereof?

    NEWSFLASH: There is an aggressive investigation going on as we speak. And if indeed Rove if found guilty by the spcial prosecutor and NOT THE DNC, then and ONLY then will the appropriate action be taken.

  33. 36

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    RR: By the way, right wingers have accused Wilson of everything from pedophilia to being a child molester, demonstrating what subhuman garbage some wingers really are.

    Roger Rabbit, I like you and I have said I hope for your speedy recovery from your life threatening illness. But now I wonder did it affect your brain? The effect may be seen in this post. You fell off the deep end with this one!!! Puddy, PBJ, and myself want to see the proof. Otherwise RR I may have to relegate you to IT (Donnageddon) and Headless Loocy status!

  34. 37

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    And more bad news for the little liberal girlyboys:

    Deficit: DOWN 100 BILLION… THAT’S BILLION WITH A ‘B’ KIDDIES AND GIRLYBOYS.

    Tax Receipts UP 14% – imagine that girlyboys, Uncle Sam is having a pretty good year after those tax cuts!

    146,000 jobs added in June and unemployment down to 5%.

    Read it and weep girlyboys…you can chew on it at your next whining liberally tea party!

  35. 38

    pbj spews:

    Again @25,

    Look at what they’ve been doing instead: spinning the situation to try to frame it as a partisan political attack from the Dems. Bullshit. That’s politics, and if you didn’t expect the Dems to take a political shot when there’s an opening, you’d have to be pretty damn naive – the Repubs would too, and do it all the time.

    No, what they (the White House ) has been doing is to not comment because there is an ONGOING investigation.

    THANK YOU for being honest. That is exactly what all this is about – a political ‘shot’ bye the Democrats. You appear to be the only one here honest to admit that.

  36. 39

    John spews:

    @ 30

    Thanks for posting that. It’s a pretty good regurgitation of the RNC talking points on the issue.

    Fellow HA’ers take it apart!!!

  37. 40

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    RR: Your credibility would be improved and enhanced if you apologized for the sick post you wrote. I would fully accept it as one posted in haste and would move on. You would elevate yourself to a higher status than most LEFTIST PINHEADS (Cynical-speak) here on HA. I still like you but… … …

  38. 41

    Albert spews:

    Oh stop with your Crocodile Tears, we all know that you libs would like nothing more than to see the CIA dismantled and now you pretend to give a Horse’s Ass (to coin a phrase) about a supposedly outed CIA operative.

    This is why nobody takes you guys seriously.

    Yes, the MSM will be sympathetic and will bandy this about for a while, but the average person couldn’t care less.

  39. 42

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    John@37: Many of the posts in the supposed “RNC” have been proven true. If you don’t possess the mental acumen to take it apart, you have to rely on your HA friends? John, I will relegate you to IT and Loocy status starting NOW!

  40. 43

    dj spews:

    marks @ 21

    It turned out his report to the CIA had not altered, and may even have strengthened, the agency’s conclusion that Iraq had explored uranium purchases from Niger.

    Wilson did not write a report. He gave his a series of oral briefings of his findings, and others summarized his briefings into written documents.

    “Wilson is a hack…”

    Of course, nobody here has read the CIA and government reports that were condensed from Wilson’s oral briefings, have we? Additionally, the strengths and weaknesses of those reports is really relevant, are they?

    Wilson was attacked for exercising his right to political speech. I hope you and everyone else commenting on this topic have read the op-ed piece. It is pretty mild stuff. And, of courese, he ended up being absolutely correct on the uranium issue. The Bush administration even admitted that they were wrong on the issue.

    So, here are some questions for you Marks:

    Should someone expressing their opinoin by writing an op-ed piece be subjected to a personal attack by the White House?

    Do the contents of his article justify having Rove (and another senior WH official) discuss with 5 reporters the fact that his wife works for the CIA?

    Do you seriously believe Rove had no idea it was a security breach to “out” (even if by confirmation) Wilson’s wife as a CIA agent?

    Is a security breach by means of a “slip up” consistent with Plame being discussed with five different reporters?

    Should someone who “slips-up” in outing (even if by confirming what a reporter said) a CIA agent whose identity is classified be entrusted with any national security information?

    Should Rove take personal responsibility for his actions even if he wasn’t bright enough to realize it was a security breach?

  41. 44

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    ” A former CIA covert agent who supervised Mrs. Plame early in her career yesterday took issue with her identification as an “undercover agent,” saying that she worked for more than five years at the agency’s headquarters in Langley and that most of her neighbors and friends knew that she was a CIA employee.
    “She made no bones about the fact that she was an agency employee and her husband was a diplomat,” Fred Rustmann, a covert agent from 1966 to 1990, told The Washington Times. “

  42. 45

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    DJ: Is that the best you can do this morning? You are changing your tune now on Rove? Wow, DJ what happened? An epiphany on the truth? Good for you DJ. Ir this is true, the status elevator is rising for you too. If not true, well…

  43. 46

    JustCurious spews:

    john @ 39

    If the RNC is taking their talking points from a unanimous (read Democrats on board) Senate report then we are perhaps making some progress.

  44. 47

    John spews:

    @ 42

    Fine. Relegate me whereever. I simply don’t have the time right now to jump into the fray. I like how you hedge with the word “Many”.

    I also like how you’re “waiting for the proof”. Very similar to what your ideological soulmates here did concerning accusations of fraud in King County elections – NOT!

    I’m also waiting for the proof but in the meantime I think it’s interesting and instructive to examine the RNC spin. Your name-calling won’t deter me nor should it deter anyone else.

  45. 48

    Dr. E spews:

    “told The Washington Times”

    Now there’s a credible source. Thanks Rev. Moon!

    Well, okay, I will give them credit for exposing the child prostitution scandal in the Bush I White House. But then, that story got quashed pretty quickly.

  46. 49

    pbj spews:

    @47,

    I also like how you’re “waiting for the proof”. Very similar to what your ideological soulmates here did concerning accusations of fraud in King County elections – NOT!

    So really, this isn;t about national security at all. Your concern is REVENGE.

  47. 50

    pbj spews:

    Roger –

    Please provide proof that anyone here ever accused Wilson of being a pedophile or child molester. It should be quit easy to go back and copy the posts.

    I am STILL waiting…

  48. 51

    John spews:

    @ 46

    IIRC, there were supposed to be two reports. Only one was issued, the second being suppressed by the Republicans. The first contained errors some of which were corrected in public by the CIA.

  49. 52

    Demographa spews:

    I’ll be happy to handle dj’s questions at 43! Who will answer mine at 30?

    If Wilson is allowed to exercise his right to free speech, why isn’t Rove? After all, Wilson wrote about a mission he performed for the government with National Security implications. How come he can talk and Rove can’t?

    “Of course…” Don’t even know what you are asking here.

    “Should someone…” Again, why shouldn’t Rove be allowed to share his views with reporters? Doesn’t he have free speech rights as well? Also, Rove didn’t claim to be speaking for the whitehouse officially, the calls were on background. So you are out of line saying the white house was out to destroy him. Lastly, Rove was teling reporters the truth. Isn’t that something you are in favor of?

    Do the contents…” Well the reporters called Rove. So it must.

    “Do you seriously believe…” I’m sure Rove does. However, there is no evidence that that is what happened here.

    “Is a security breach by means of a ‘slip up’…” Not sure I understand your question. Do you mean the fact that five reporters talked to Rove indicates the whole issue was orchestrated? Sure it was orchestrated. But not necessarily by Rove.

    “Should someone who “slips-up…” I guess not. So what national security information does Rove have that you care about?

    “Should Rove take personal responsibility…” I haven’t seen any evidence here that there was any national security breach, or that Rove is not bright.

    Now, will someone help me out with my questions on 30. (not Roger Rabbit, please).

  50. 53

    pbj spews:

    Note how since the Rove thread hasn’t generated the “outraged indignation” he wanted, that Goldy is quickly adding new threads to make this one ‘go away’. I guess he thought no one would defend the truth and once again the liberals could bamboozle the public.

  51. 54

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    “told The Washington Times”

    Now there’s a credible source. Thanks Rev. Moon!

    Well, okay, I will give them credit for exposing the child prostitution scandal in the Bush I White House. But then, that story got quashed pretty quickly.

    Comment by Dr. E— 7/15/05 @ 10:50 am

    Dear Dr E Idioti – the key words are what organization was told, BUT WHO TOLD THE ORGANIZATION IN QUESTION…

    Fred Rustmann, a covert agent from 1966 to 1990

    Don’t let any facts get in the way of your delusions, DR. Embarassment.

  52. 55

    pbj spews:

    APB on Roger Rabbit,
    Has anyone seen Roger Rabbit? I have a question for him.

    Roger –

    Please provide proof that anyone here ever accused Wilson of being a pedophile or child molester. It should be quit easy to go back and copy the posts.

    I am STILL waiting…

  53. 56

    marks spews:

    dj,

    Should someone expressing their opinoin by writing an op-ed piece be subjected to a personal attack by the White House?

    Opinions are fair game for a targeted rebuttal. You are calling me to task for expressing mine, and rightly so. Where was the “personal” attack? Plame came up because she “suggested” Wilson go to Africa, using her position in the second-oldest tradition in politics: nepotism.

    Do the contents of his article justify having Rove (and another senior WH official) discuss with 5 reporters the fact that his wife works for the CIA?

    I answered that above.

    Do you seriously believe Rove had no idea it was a security breach to “out” (even if by confirmation) Wilson’s wife as a CIA agent?

    A reporter asks a question, and the answer is given. You ever talk to a reporter? It is generally wiser to say “no comment” but Rove’s job is mouthpiece, right?

    Is a security breach by means of a “slip up” consistent with Plame being discussed with five different reporters?

    Huh? For some reason, I am missing the connection there.

    Should someone who “slips-up” in outing (even if by confirming what a reporter said) a CIA agent whose identity is classified be entrusted with any national security information?

    Personally, I have real problems with advisors in an obvious political role having access to classified material.

    Should Rove take personal responsibility for his actions even if he wasn’t bright enough to realize it was a security breach?

    Yes, when the investigation is complete and if Rove is proven to be the singular, lone source…

  54. 59

    dj spews:

    IDGAF @ 30

    ”Hmmmmm..Let’s have a look at Joe Wilson’s “credibility” shall we.

    Why? His credibility is irrelevant to the crime(s) that were committed. Did you forget, there is an investigation of a national security leak?

    Let’s look at your bullshit claims about Wilson, from the perspective of what the White House could have known when Rove outed Valerie Plame, shall we? (That is, I am going to ignore all quotes AFTER the outing, because the White House had no way of predicting what Wilson would say or do in the future.

    ”1.) Wilson Insisted That The Vice President’s Office Sent Him To Niger:

    No he didn’t. His op-ed piece stated “In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office had questions about a particular intelligence report.”

    Nowhere does the Op-Ed piece state that the VP named Wilson to do the job or that Cheney had any idea who was getting the answer or how.

    ”2.) Wilson Claimed The Vice President And Other Senior White House Officials Were Briefed On His Niger Report:”

    No he didn’t. He clearly believed that to be the case. Here is what he said in the op-ed piece: “Though I did not file a written report, there should be at least four documents in United States government archives confirming my mission. The documents should include the ambassador’s report of my debriefing in Niamey, a separate report written by the embassy staff, a C.I.A. report summing up my trip, and a specific answer from the agency to the office of the vice president (this may have been delivered orally). While I have not seen any of these reports, I have spent enough time in government to know that this is standard operating procedure.

    Does that seem “sinister” to you?

    ”3.) Wilson Has Claimed His Niger Report Was Conclusive And Significant

    No, he did not (and, he did not see any of the 3 or 4 written summaries of his oral reports). He said, “I thought the Niger matter was settled and went back to my life.” He summarized with the “sinister” statement: ”Those are the facts surrounding my efforts. The vice president’s office asked a serious question. I was asked to help formulate the answer. I did so, and I have every confidence that the answer I provided was circulated to the appropriate officials within our government. “

    4.) Wilson Denied His Wife Suggested He Travel To Niger In 2002:

    Karl Rove predicting the future, again? He certainly did not say anything about his wife in the op-ed piece.

    (But, in any case, who gives a flying fuck who recommended Wilson for the job??? This is the most idiotic wingnut talking point in this “discredit Wilson” tactic.)

    ”6.) Wilson Claimed He Was A Victim Of A Partisan Smear Campaign”

    Nope, his op-ed piece never said any such thing. Or are you, again, claiming that Rove could see into the future?

    ”7.) A Month Before The Bob Novak And Matthew Cooper Articles Ever Came Out, Wilson Told The Washington Post That Previous Intelligence Reports About Niger Were Based On Forged Documents:”

    I’ve not seen the Washington Post article, but I must, again, ask, so what? If he was disbarred from speaking, then go after him for that. Otherwise, it sounds like he was exercising free speech. (Never mind that he was correct about the forged documents!)

    ”8.) Wilson Claimed His Book Would Enrich Debate: “

    WHAT THE FUCK???? What kind of desperate bullshit claim is this? Again, was Rove reading the future?

    9.) Wilson Claimed The CIA Provided Him With Information Related To The Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction:

    No he didn’t. He said in the op-ed piece: “While I never saw the report, I was told that it referred to a memorandum of agreement that documented the sale of uranium yellowcake — a form of lightly processed ore — by Niger to Iraq in the late 1990’s”

    ”10.) Wilson Claimed He Is A Non-Partisan “Centrist”:”

    More desperate bullshit? How can this be at all related to the White House outing his wife?

    In sum, all of these claims are completely irrelevant, nonsense or plain bullshit.

    Wilson wrote a mild piece describing his mission and reporting that his finding in Niger contradicted the war rhetoric coming from the White House. He had a right to do so. The White House had no business destroying his wife’s career and endangering national security by identifying that Valerie Plame was a CIA agent or even that she worked for the CIA. Somebody in the White House is a criminal—looks like Rove.

  55. 61

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    DJ: I have no problem with Wilson thinking he was approved by the VP. But when the clarion light of truth appears on his event horizon and he doesn;t retract those statements, it allows lefties like you to regurgitate old Year 2003 news and state it as July 2005 facts. That bucket doesn’t hold water anymore!

    Wilson lied in his opinion piece on the Niger situation and when called on it by the Senate Committee he hems and haws about it. Now you want us to accept his outing of his wife story as the truth? Why didn’t the DCI come out and claim foul immediately? Shucks DJ I know you know better. Sorry DJ, even you in your $200/hr consulting mind should see through that BS!!

  56. 63

    Puddybud spews:

    Another TJ: Can you follow this thread? Look again at my post? I read his post you linked us to and I went back and looked at other rants by him. One post does not qualify a person. But many posts by him does. Nuff said!!!!

  57. 64

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    Another TJ: Interesting Hoshua Marshall post. You link to an Ivy Leaguer. Who really is Joshua Marshall? Are you afraid of another lefty reporter being outed for his views?

  58. 65

    dj spews:

    marks @ 55

    “Opinions are fair game for a targeted rebuttal. You are calling me to task for expressing mine, and rightly so.”

    You seriously see you and me debating on a blog as the same thing as the White House destroying someone’s career in revenge using classified information?

    “Where was the “personal” attack?

    Ummmm. . . identifying (or even confirming) Wilson’s wife as a CIA agent? That is pretty personal—especially if it ends her career.

    “A reporter asks a question, and the answer is given. You ever talk to a reporter? It is generally wiser to say “no comment” but Rove’s job is mouthpiece, right?”

    If Rove cannot help revealing classified information, then he should not be entrusted with it! We can only hope that Rove’s little slip of the tongue (but apparently one repeated five times) had no cascading effects on other operatives.

    Is a security breach by means of a “slip up” consistent with Plame being discussed with five different reporters?

    Huh? For some reason, I am missing the connection there.

    The point is that Rove may have slipped once. But, why is it that he discussed Plame with at least 2 other reporters (I understand it is verified that he did discuss Plame with Miller), and as many as five?

    [Should Rove take personal responsibility?] “Yes, when the investigation is complete and if Rove is proven to be the singular, lone source… “

    I disagree that “lone source” is relevant (“honestly, officer, I only raped her once, Steven raped her twice”). Of course, I agree withy you that the investigation should run its course for criminal charges, prosecution, and punishment. (That ain’t going to stop me from discussing it, though).

  59. 66

    Another TJ spews:

    Puddybud,

    It’s Josh Marshall, not John.

    He didn’t “report” anything in that post.

    So, again, what the hell are you talking about?

  60. 67

    Another TJ spews:

    Another TJ: Interesting Hoshua Marshall post. You link to an Ivy Leaguer. Who really is Joshua Marshall? Are you afraid of another lefty reporter being outed for his views?

    It’s really tough to know who Josh Marshall is, given how cagey he is with his background.

    http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/bio.php

  61. 70

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    RR: Are you making more little fluffy bunnies today? You posted on other links so I know you are alive, if not getting better. Come on RR, let’s be intellectually honest.

    I remember many lefty HAs piling on Puddy for his NROTC attendance call him intellectually dishonest, and if I remember correctly you came to his support. I watched my friend GBS stand down a bit. Well I am doing that for you but I can only do this for so long before I have to call you on it. So I implore you RR, just say it was a down moment, and we’ll move on. I’ll wait patiently for a while. I continue to ask Loocy about it’s (being a wrestling coach I think it’s a he too) college training because Loocy if FULLY intellectually DISHONEST!

  62. 71

    dj spews:

    pacman@ 60

    “I have no problem with Wilson thinking he was approved by the VP.”

    Wilson did not suggest in the NYT op-ed piece that he though he was approved by the VP. All he said is that the VP had questions about a Niger report.

    But when the clarion light of truth appears on his event horizon and he doesn;t retract those statements, it allows lefties like you to regurgitate old Year 2003 news and state it as July 2005 facts. That bucket doesn’t hold water anymore!

    Sorry, I am not following your logic. There IS a criminal investigation going on RIGHT NOW about senior WH officials disclosing classified information.

    “Wilson lied in his opinion piece on the Niger situation”

    No he didn’t

    “and when called on it by the Senate Committee he hems and haws about it.”

    Completely irrelevant (and probably not true). Rove can’t see what people will say or do in the future.

    “Now you want us to accept his outing of his wife story as the truth?”

    Valerie Plame was outed to 5 members of the press. The CIA was pissed-off big time. There is a GJ investigation of senior WH staff over the leak. Rove (via lawyer) admits he discussed Wilson’s wife with a number of reporters. But, you can hold any fantisy you wish.

  63. 72

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    DJ: You need to stop the leftist talking points and perform research. Anything you disagree with your favorite line is Completely irrelevant . It is relevant that are you a stupid schmuck? It’s proven that Matt Cooper, the Time reporter called him. Joe Wilson learned that the VP didn’t call for him to visit Niger. But in your small intellectual prison, that doesn’t matter.

    Wilson Said He Traveled To Niger At CIA Request To Help Provide Response To Vice President’s Office. “In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. … The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office.” (Joseph C. Wilson, Op-Ed, “What I Didn’t Find In Africa,” The New York Times, 7/6/03)

    Joe Wilson: “[W]hat They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libby’s Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself …” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 8/3/03)

    Vice President Cheney: “I Don’t Know Joe Wilson. I’ve Never Met Joe Wilson. … And Joe Wilson – I Don’t [Know] Who Sent Joe Wilson. He Never Submitted A Report That I Ever Saw When He Came Back.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 9/14/03)

    CIA Director George Tenet: “In An Effort To Inquire About Certain Reports Involving Niger, CIA’s Counter-Proliferation Experts, On Their Own Initiative, Asked An Individual With Ties To The Region To Make A Visit To See What He Could Learn.” (Central Intelligence Agency, “Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,” Press Release, 7/11/03)

    Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: “The Former Ambassador Said That He May Have ‘Misspoken’ To The Reporter When He Said He Concluded The Documents Were ‘Forged.’” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

    Senate Intelligence Committee Unanimously Concluded That Wilson’s Report “Lent More Credibility” For Most Analysts “To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Reports.” “Conclusion 13. The report on the former ambassador’s trip to Niger, disseminated in March 2002, did not change any analysts’ assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on the uranium deal, but the State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) analysts believed that the report supported their assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq.” (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)

    DJ you really need to read more. Oh that’s right, you said that you are a lefty leaning independent. So I suppose, youe reading selection must meet a very narrow criteria!

  64. 74

    christmasghost spews:

    john …you must be kidding.
    “IRC, there were supposed to be two reports. Only one was issued, the second being suppressed by the Republicans. The first contained errors some of which were corrected in public by the CIA.”
    oh…uh huh……and you KNOW that the republicans are suppressing this report how????
    really….HOW? what is your source?

  65. 75

    dj spews:

    Demographia @ 52

    “If Wilson is allowed to exercise his right to free speech, why isn’t Rove? After all, Wilson wrote about a mission he performed for the government with National Security implications. How come he can talk and Rove can’t?

    Wilson’s mission was not classified. Rove discussed classified information.

    “Doesn’t he have free speech rights as well?

    Not with classified information.

    “Also, Rove didn’t claim to be speaking for the whitehouse officially, the calls were on background. So you are out of line saying the white house was out to destroy him.

    The grand jury complaint is about leaks from two senior WH officials. Rove is the first of the two to be publically identified.

    “Lastly, Rove was teling reporters the truth. Isn’t that something you are in favor of?”

    Not when the information is classified.

    “Is a security breach by means of a ’slip up’…” Not sure I understand your question. Do you mean the fact that five reporters talked to Rove indicates the whole issue was orchestrated? Sure it was orchestrated. But not necessarily by Rove.

    Really? You agree that the WH orchestrated the release of classified information? This is what many of us suspect. With any luck, the GJ will get to the bottom of it.

    “Should someone who “slips-up…” I guess not. So what national security information does Rove have that you care about?

    I could tell you, but then I would have to kill you. :-)

    “Should Rove take personal responsibility…” I haven’t seen any evidence here that there was any national security breach, or that Rove is not bright.

    Really? Don’t you mean that you haven’t seen PROOF of a NSB? I mean, the CIA has asserted that there was such a breach. Rove has admitted discussing Wilson’s wife with several reporters. That is evidence!

  66. 76

    Goldy Loves Terror spews:

    Goldy,

    You are starting to look like the gullible asshole that you are, again! Amazing! You want to believe all of the Bush hatred, Rove hatred, Terrorists are just victims, and left skewed public opinion polls so badly, that you are willing to be lead into any foolish and false liberal lie.

    Remember how you believed the polls that said Kerry was winning right up until late in the night on November 2nd when he lost?

    You’re as gullible as they come, because you don’t want to be a part of reality. You want to live inside of your blue cocoon.

    But hey, more power to you, because every time one of you leftist commentators get’s all fired up up with another set of lies, you do more damage to yourselves than we could ever hope.

  67. 77

    Mr. X spews:

    If it wasn’t already completely obvious that the SCLM had the goods on Rove and Bushco, the level of rethug hysteria and spin on this topic today would sure tell the tale.

    Oh yeah, but it’s all OK if you’re a Republican. God forbid someone should lie about a blowjob, though (unless you can’t decide whether your name is Guckert or Gannon)

  68. 78

    dj spews:

    Pacman @ 70

    “DJ: You need to stop the leftist talking points and perform research. Anything you disagree with your favorite line is Completely irrelevant.”

    Sorry, no talking points for me. I analyzed and composed my post, being careful to note where I have quoted. I only used a single external source, and that was Wilson’s NYT Op Ed.

    It is relevant that are you a stupid schmuck?

    I am sure the Grand Jury has no idea. . . . :-)

    It’s proven that Matt Cooper, the Time reporter called him.

    Huh? Cooper called who and how is it relevant?

    “Joe Wilson learned that the VP didn’t call for him to visit Niger.

    So? His Op-Ed never claimed otherwise. Read your own quote of the op-ed piece (or read my quote).

    More importantly, WHO CARES? It is completely irrelevant to the CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. This is where you stumble. The Rove issue is part of a criminal investigation.

  69. 79

    Goldy Loves Terror spews:

    “So somebody’s lying.”

    Duh!

    It’s the mainstream media journalists, who, like yourself are so fully entrenched in leftist ideology, that you’re willing to lie to try and change reality to fit your skewed view. And you’re going to keep getting exposed as nothing but a bunch of liars that will say anything to try and fulfill your vision of Bush as the ultimate evil.

  70. 80

    Mr. X spews:

    Goldy loves Terror @77

    Projecting a bit, are we?

    BTW – I can only wish that we were trying to “fulfill our vision of Bush as the ultimate evil” – the fact that he is a callow lying s.o.b has nothing to do with our vision.

  71. 81

    pbj spews:

    PB on Roger Rabbit,
    Has anyone seen Roger Rabbit? I have a question for him.

    Roger –

    Please provide proof that anyone here ever accused Wilson of being a pedophile or child molester. It should be quit easy to go back and copy the posts.

    I am STILL waiting…

  72. 83

    Puddybud spews:

    Of course DJ, Wilson’s book has been debunked, but is OP Ed NYT’s piece is the gospel truth? Didn’t PacMan say you love to use 2003 documentation for 2005 arguments? Didn’t all of righties say wait for the SP finding of fact and now a lefty wants us to wait for the SP? Now you are agreeing with us? Well where were you last week when Goldy was starting all this tripe and asserting Rove’s guilt? If all you use is his OP Ed piece, you are fighting with only a half a deck.

  73. 84

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Reply to 79

    Please provide proof that I ever accused anyone of posting that here (i.e., on HorsesAss). You can’t because I didn’t. Learn how to read, dummy.

  74. 85

    GeoCrackr spews:

    Ignorant Jackass @80

    We already know you’re lying through your teeth once again (see @6). What you’re really saying that you’re okay with the fact that a presidential advisor disclosed the identity of a covert agent of the CIA.

  75. 86

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Comment on 74

    Who’s this foaming-at-the-mouth idiot? Is JCH using a new screen name?

  76. 87

    Donnageddon spews:

    Puddy Buddy @ 63

    “Nuff said!!!!”

    You are so cute when you are throwing as tantrum.

  77. 88

    Mr. X spews:

    Rule of thumb with Rethugs – the harder they spin, the more they know how full of shit they are (or, for the really dumb ones, the more the vague sense of congnitive dissonance is making their widdle heads hurt).

  78. 89

    Puddybud spews:

    IT@87: has made an appearance. Hello IT. How ya doing? Throwing a tantrum? Naah!

    Geocrakr: Mr X is on your side, but your Rove hatred missed it

    RR: Just performed a +Joe +Wilson +Pedo Google Search. No such luck. I thought I found a Rabbit link but I was mistaken. So again just what are you accusing us righties of?

  79. 90

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    Ex’ed@88: Rethugs. We were the ones to ask for HA lefties to please wait until the SP finished his work. LEFTIST PINHEADS (thanks Cynical), tried and convicted him in the MSM and on HA before the evidence was collected. Now that it looks like the Dems case against Rove is falling apart, it’s not our fault you LEFTIST PINHEADS look awfully stoopid.

    RR: Sorry but your excuse doesn’t wash here. RR Said:”By the way, right wingers have accused Wilson of everything from pedophilia to being a child molester, demonstrating what subhuman garbage some wingers really are.” You said that comment and now you don’t want to retract it. Where is the pedo or child molester link?

  80. 91

    GeoCrackr spews:

    Puddybud @89

    Bang! Thanks for catching that typo (and my sincere apologies to you, Mr. X) — I meant “@82″.

    I also noticed on review that CF @82 is not, in fact, lying directly; he’s attempting to deflect that particular criticism by merely quoting the writer of the article, who is in fact the one who is lying. The rest of my comment stands.

  81. 92

    pbj spews:

    HARRY REID to lose security clearance for OUTING agent during senate hearings!!

    Democrat Minority Leader ‘outed’ covert agent Otto Reich during senate questioning of one of President Bush’s nominees. A measure has been introduced by Majority Leader Bill Frist to strip this traitor Harry Reid of his security clearance.

  82. 93

    pbj spews:

    Geocrackr@85,

    We already know you’re lying through your teeth once again (see @6). What you’re really saying that you’re okay with the fact that a presidential advisor disclosed the identity of a covert agent of the CIA.

    I guess you must be ok with the Democrat Minority Leader disclosing the identity of a covert agent of the CIA.

  83. 94

    pbj spews:

    APB on Roger Rabbit,
    Has anyone seen Roger Rabbit? I have a question for him.

    Roger –

    Please provide proof that anyone here ever accused Wilson of being a pedophile or child molester. It should be quit easy to go back and copy the posts.

    I am STILL waiting…

  84. 95

    Puddybud spews:

    WA Post Editorial Today:

    Mr. Wilson made his trip in 2002 to look into reports that Iraq had sought to buy uranium from Niger. A year later, he publicly surfaced and loudly proclaimed that the Bush administration should have known that its conclusion that Iraq had sought such supplies, included in the president’s 2003 State of the Union address, was wrong. He said he had debunked that theory and that his report had circulated at the highest levels of government.

    One year after that, reports by two official investigations – Britain’s Butler Commission and the Senate intelligence committee – demonstrated that Mr. Wilson’s portrayal of himself as a whistle-blower was unwarranted. It turned out his report to the CIA had not altered, and may even have strengthened, the agency’s conclusion that Iraq had explored uranium purchases from Niger. Moreover, his account had not reached Vice President Cheney or any other senior official. According to the Butler Commission, led by an independent jurist, the assertion about African uranium included in Mr. Bush’s State of the Union speech was “well-founded.”

    That brings us to this year’s dust-up, which concerns whether Mr. Rove or other administration officials should be held culpable for leaking to journalists the fact that Mr. Wilson’s wife, Valerie Plame, was a CIA agent. Reporters were told that Ms. Plame recommended Mr. Wilson for the Niger trip – a fact denied by Mr. Wilson but subsequently confirmed by the Senate investigation. A federal prosecutor is conducting a criminal probe that has, among other things, unearthed an e-mail from Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper revealing that Mr. Rove told him about Ms. Plame’s role in her husband’s trip.

    This gives the lie to White House denials that Mr. Rove was involved in the leak. Mr. Rove and White House spokesman Scott McClellan can fairly be accused, at the very least, of responding to questions about the affair with the sort of misleading legalisms and evasions that Republicans once rightly condemned President Bill Clinton for employing. “I didn’t know her name. I didn’t leak her name,” Mr. Rove told CNN last year. Technically true, perhaps, but hardly a model of straightforwardness and probity. Asked about the leak, Mr. McClellan waxed indignant: “That is not the way this White House operates,” he said. Or is it?

    At the same time, Mr. Rove and other administration officials had a legitimate interest in rebutting Mr. Wilson’s inflated claims – including the notion that he had been dispatched to Niger at Mr. Cheney’s behest. It’s in that context, judging from Mr. Cooper’s e-mail, that Mr. Rove appears to have brought up Ms. Plame’s role. Whether Mr. Rove or others behaved in a way that amounted to criminal, malicious or even merely sleazy behavior will turn on what they knew about Ms. Plame’s employment. Were they aware she was a covert agent? Did they recklessly fail to consider that before revealing her involvement? How they learned about Ms. Plame also will matter: Did the information come from government sources or outside parties?

    Look up and the editorial and read the rest. So there you go.

  85. 96

    pbj spews:

    reply@84,

    Please provide proof that I ever accused anyone of posting that here (i.e., on HorsesAss). You can’t because I didn’t. Learn how to read, dummy.

    From post @22

    It now appears Rove played the “Deep Throat” role in Novak’s story – he was the source who confirmed Novak’s info. Let’s see if the rightys who criticized Mark Felt say it’s okay when a Repug does it. Of course they will – fucking hypocrites.

    By the way, right wingers have accused Wilson of everything from pedophilia to being a child molester, demonstrating what subhuman garbage some wingers really are.

    And, of course, let’s not forget that Wilson was right all along – Bush was lying when he told the American public that Saddam tried to get uranium from Niger for nuclear weapons. Saddam didn’t even have a nuclear program.

    Since you refer to use as ‘right wingers’ and made no qualifications such as ‘present company excluded’, you DID refer to us.

    You are a LIAR ROGER!

    Now provide the proof or apoligize.

  86. 98

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    Lefties: Since your hero Goldy loves to quote the NY Times what alternative news source is used on HA? Why doesn’t Goldy look at the WA Post? Are they more intellectually honest, and therefore disqualified by David Goldstein? In your best Gilbert Gottfried voice say: “Hmmmm…?”

    When other news sources are used by us we are Rethugs. Wow liberal thought; so open-minded and clear. Thanks HA Lefties we now know (like we didn’t before) what we us against.

  87. 99

    Puddybud spews:

    PBJ: RR is a furry wittle wabbit, not a man! He is out procreating more wittle wabbits.

  88. 100

    windie spews:

    @96 you’re REALLY stretching, PBJ… but I guess that shouldn’t be a surprise.

    Let me get this argument straight, “Because you didn’t say ‘present company excluded’, you’re automatically referring to ME!” Of course, thats egotistical nonsense.

    New rule for PBJworld: Everything is about PBJ.

  89. 102

    Puddybud spews:

    Here is an interesting article: http://www.nationalreview.com/.....150827.asp

    Excerpt:So if Novak did not reveal that Valerie Plame was a secret agent, who did? The evidence strongly suggests it was none other than Joe Wilson himself. Let me walk you through the steps that lead to this conclusion.

    The first reference to Plame being a secret agent appears in The Nation, in an article by David Corn published July 16, 2003, just two days after Novak’s column appeared. It carried this lead: “Did Bush officials blow the cover of a U.S. intelligence officer working covertly in a field of vital importance to national security — and break the law — in order to strike at a Bush administration critic and intimidate others?”

    Since Novak did not report that Plame was “working covertly” how did Corn know that’s what she had been doing?

    Corn does not tell his readers and he has responded to a query from me only by pointing out that he was asking a question, not making a “statement of fact.” But in the article, he asserts that Novak “outed” Plame “as an undercover CIA officer.” Again, Novak did not do that. Rather, it is Corn who is, apparently for the first time, “outing” Plame’s “undercover” status.

    Corn follows that assertion with a quote from Wilson saying, “I will not answer questions about my wife.” Any reporter worth his salt would immediately wonder: Did Wilson indeed answer Corn’s questions about his wife — after Corn agreed not to quote his answers but to use them only on background? Read the rest of Corn’s piece and it’s difficult to believe anything else. Corn names no other sources for the information he provides — and he provides much more information than Novak revealed.

    Corn also claims that Wilson “will not confirm nor deny that his wife …works for the CIA.” Corn adds: “But let’s assume she does. That would seem to mean that the Bush administration has screwed one of its own top-secret operatives in order to punish Wilson …”

    Here is the original Corn article where he outs Valerie Plame!: http://www.thenation.com/blogs.....38;pid=823

    Looks like Goldy received his marching orders from MoveOn.Org: http://www.nationalreview.com/.....150854.asp

    Excerpt: Matzzie explained to reporters that the protest was only part of a larger anti-Rove campaign. “We’re going to send people into the districts of Republicans in the House and Senate who have tough reelections. Those members who sit on investigative committees that are not holding Rove accountable are going to hear from us. We’ll be there in their hometowns with television, radio, and newspaper ads.”

    When it was my turn to speak, I asked Matzzie if it was fair for MoveOn to be demanding Rove’s termination when he had not even been formally accused, let alone found guilty, of any wrongdoing. Matzzie looked irritated and said, “I have to go speak to the group,” before hustling into the crowd of protesters who had begun moving from the White House gates back onto Pennsylvania Avenue. Just when I thought I had missed my opportunity, Mattzie reemerged, pointed a finger at me and shouted, “He needs to be held accountable! Now!” before disappearing back into the crowd.

    More: And their message is clear. Rove has long been a target of MoveOn, but he is far from the big prize. The group’s press release was more forward, asking, “Next Question: Did Rove Act Alone? What did Bush and Cheney know and when did they know it?” Mattzie is further quoted in the release stating, “While it’s nearly impossible to believe that Karl Rove didn’t know he was outing an undercover CIA agent to a reporter, the fact remains he did reveal her identity as Ambassador Joe Wilson’s wife who worked for the CIA. – No MoveOn.Orgers David Corn outed her.

  90. 103

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    Sure is nice to see us “trolls & rethugs” using the MSM and the Internet to disprove another worthless David Goldstein post. Golly Jimmy, what you say? The lefties are intellectually dishonest? Yes! The lefties condemn before the trial? Yes! The lefties say “Screw” the truth (No DJ you have the potty mouth)? Yes, they can’t stand the truth!

    Wow just read Puddy’s latest David Corn article link. And you guys blame Robert Novak? Awesome dude!

  91. 104

    John spews:

    @ 103

    7/14/2003

    “Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me Wilson’s wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate” …

    Who wrote the above?

    What was the date of the Corn article?

  92. 105

    GeoCrackr spews:

    peanutbutterjellytime, puddy, pacboy:

    So, just so we’re clear, what you’re all saying (among all your misdirection and rationalizations) is that you’re each okay with a presidential advisor jeopardizing national security by disclosing the identity of a covert agent of the CIA. Because if you’re not okay with jeopardizing national security like that, then all the GOP talking points you’ve been spouting are irrelevant.

  93. 106

    GBS spews:

    PacMan:

    Hey, who’s that dude who’s been cruzin’ the WH checking out Roves badonkadonk?

    P.S.: Man, is this really your quote? “The lefties condemn before the trial? Yes!”

    C’mon, you righties were all over President Clinton from day 1 of his administration. C’mmmmooooooon. That quote of yours makes you look a little, you know, cheesy man.

    Hey, I gott check out. You need to coach your boy PBJ. He’s off he deep end. Have a great weekend. Say hello to that Hot Chocolate of yours for me. And be sure to be off the keyboard before midnight. Or you know I’ll pull your card from the club. And you know which club I’m talkin’ about, too.

  94. 107

    dj spews:

    Puddybud @ 83

    Of course DJ, Wilson’s book has been debunked, but is OP Ed NYT’s piece is the gospel truth?

    As I have said, it is completely irrelevant whether anything Wilson said is true, false, speculation, fact, or otherwise.

    The criminal investigation is about a leak of classified information from the White House.

    “Didn’t PacMan say you love to use 2003 documentation for 2005 arguments? Didn’t all of righties say wait for the SP finding of fact and now a lefty wants us to wait for the SP? Now you are agreeing with us? Well where were you last week when Goldy was starting all this tripe and asserting Rove’s guilt? If all you use is his OP Ed piece, you are fighting with only a half a deck.”

    I have no fucking idea what you are trying to get at in this paragraph. Slow down, relax, breath deeply. . . .

  95. 108

    dj spews:

    pacman @ 103

    “Internet to disprove another worthless David Goldstein post.”

    Wow. This is Goldy’s personal blog and asswipes like you and someone called “Goldy Loves Terrorist” have the bad manners to show up and say that Goldy’s posts are worthless?

    Hmmm. . . what kind of worthless piece of shit does that make you for hanging out frantically trying to debunk the “worthless posts?”

  96. 110

    ConservativeFirst spews:

    GeoCrackr @ 85

    If I was an “Ignorant Jackass” would I guess I’d misread a post as someone saying something instead of someone quoting a third party making the same statement.

    “We already know you’re lying through your teeth once again (see @6). What you’re really saying that you’re okay with the fact that a presidential advisor disclosed the identity of a covert agent of the CIA.”

    Actually it’s Joe Wilson’s word against yours. As discredited as Joe Wilson is, I’ll take his word over yours about the status of his wife being a covert agent.

    So what you are really saying is “CF is okay with the fact that a presidential advisor disclosng the identity of an agent of the CIA”. But wait, there’s more! Since we’re still not sure who exactly leaked the name (the investigation is ongoing, remember), what you are really saying is “CF is okay with a high level White House source disclosing the identity of an agent of the CIA.”

    Actually I’m not, when the special prosecutor finds out who the leaker is they should be fired and punished to the extent the law allows. That applies to anyone including Karl Rove.

    What I’m not okay with is the left jumping to conclusions that Rove is the guilty party, primarily because they are blinded by their hatred for him.

  97. 111

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    DJ, U R an igno-ranter. Speaking of asswipes – DJ you are the biggest piece of toilet paper here. So you tone it down and I’m an asswipe? Ha. From now on your name is Charmin. Charmin wipes up worthless shits (your words) like your lefty HA friends. Since I said it I will take time and explain it. You are using July 2003 information to answer July 2005 arguments. Update your information to 2005 and then we can have a great conversation. Everything you are using for retorts has been debunked by many people. You claim anything Wilson says is irrelevant. He is the one who “claims” that Plame was outed. No one else, except the lefties who are trying to get Rove’s head.

    Are you so dense that you can’t understand what Puddy said. Puddy said: Didn’t all of righties say wait for the SP finding of fact and now a lefty wants us to wait for the SP? Now you are agreeing with us? Well where were you last week when Goldy was starting all this tripe and asserting Rove’s guilt? If all you use is his OP Ed piece, you are fighting with only a half a deck.

    Let’s parse the way you do Charmin. I agree with Puddy’s post.

    Puddy – Didn’t all of righties say wait for the SP finding of fact and now a lefty wants us to wait for the SP? – Means us righties want a finding of fact from the special prosecutor before we react. You all are already convicting him.

    Puddy – Now you are agreeing with us? – Means now you stated that you will wait for the SP finding of fact.

    Puddy – Well where were you last week when Goldy was starting all this tripe and asserting Rove’s guilt? – Means you were there throwing fuel onto the fire with Goldy’s first Rove post.

    Puddy – If all you use is his OP Ed piece, you are fighting with only a half a deck. – Means you are stupid. Puddy if I didn’t do justice please correct me!!!

    GBS: Friday is the Sabbath. I get off of HA early.

  98. 112

    Puddybud spews:

    Charmin, the Toilet Paper Man. That’s as funny as Cynical calling Goldy Gilbert Gottfried!

    PacMan, you were close. But in the case of Charmin, I’ll let you slide. All the lefties have already convicted Rove before the SP has said ding!

  99. 113

    Demographa spews:

    Hey, everybody, I have a question. Please don’t call me mean names just for asking.

    We all agree that Wilson went to Niger on the government’s dime, at the request of the CIA/State Department, whether his wife was behind it or not.

    Isn’t it a little slimy for a person to go on a mission for the CIA and then come home and write a New York Times opinion piece about it? I have to think that before leaving Wilson would have agreed to keep his mouth shut about the mission and disseminate his conclusions through normal channels.

    The bipartisan commission who looked into this affair determined that Wilson lied in the Op-Ed about what he found out in Niger and put in his report, and lied when he said in 2003 that his wife had nothing to do with his being sent on the mission. Now he admits that she wasn’t undercover at the time Novak wrote his piece. This is what I was speculating on HA over a week ago. Who’d have thought I might be right?

    Meanwhile, it turns out that Rove was telling the truth in 2003 when he said Wilson’s wife recommended him for the trip, and that his op-ed didn’t jive with the report he submitted.

    So who is the dishonest one here? Aren’t you HA people working under a double standard? Furthermore, how can you say there is a coverup going on, when Rove gave Novak, Cooper, and Wilson permission, in writing, to reveal him as a source over two years ago? What is being covered up? And in light of this grant of permission, why is Judith Miller sitting in jail?

    Huh? Why? Why?

    One thing I was certainly wrong about. I said this story would be dead over a week ago. But I have a feeling that the unraveling isn’t the unraveling you guys were hoping for. Gee, maybe somebody else will end up getting frogmarched!

  100. 114

    GeoCrackr spews:

    Ignorant Jackass @110

    See, you’re such an ignorant fuck, that you can’t even read. I’d have thought Luntz taught you better than that. I said “‘Clandestine agent’ has a very specific meaning in the CIA, and Wilson was correct – his wife was not an agent operating in the field (overseas) when Novak outed her.” He did not say “she was not undercover” as lying fucks like you misinterpret it. And, it has been verified that Rove told Cooper that Wilson’s wife was a CIA agent, and verified for Novak the same, ie. the special prosecutor has found out who at least one of the leakers was, and that leaker was Karl Rove.

    Demographa @113

    None of that matters, whether your misrepresentation of the events or the actual facts. What matters is that you and CF are okay with a presidential advisor jeopardizing national security by giving classified information regarding a covert CIA agent to the press. That’s what all your misinformation and rationalizations are telling us.

  101. 115

    ConservativeFirst spews:

    GeoCracker @ 114

    Frank says “Hi!”

    “What matters is that you and CF are okay with a presidential advisor jeopardizing national security by giving classified information regarding a covert CIA agent to the press.”

    Keep trying to tell me what I think. Eventually I might get brainwashed. Okay probably not, but keep trying. Plus, you’re wrong. Did you not read my statement in post 110? I’ll repost it for you:

    “when the special prosecutor finds out who the leaker is they should be fired and punished to the extent the law allows. That applies to anyone including Karl Rove.”

    Let’s find out who the leaker was first and what they leaked. All the lefties jumping for glee when they think that person is Rove, might be sadly disappointed.

  102. 116

    Demographa spews:

    Geocrackr:

    Sure it matters. Who are you to say what matters? Who are you anyway?

    You and Goldy dodge these rather elementary questions.

    You aren’t really interested in serving the best interests of the CIA.
    You aren’t really interested in national security.
    You aren’t interested in the truth.
    You aren’t really interested in protecting anyone’s First Amendment rights.
    Oh, and you aren’t really interested in whether Iraq was trying to buy yellowcake in Niger.

    You are just interest in getting Bush. And you don’t care if you have to lie to do it. What doesn’t matter is you.

  103. 117

    JohnReb spews:

    “you and CF are okay with a presidential advisor jeopardizing national security by giving classified information…”
    Seems to me that if your a Dem it’s O.K. when your name is Sandy Bergher but if your Rep and named Karl Rove it’s not.
    Tad bit of beining hypocritical.

  104. 119

    antidote spews:

    Sigh.

    pbj@13, demographa@27, IDGAF@30. Y’all obviously have been reading the talking points memo sent to the Wall Street Journal and the Sun Times (see their recent editorials attacking Joseph Wilson).

    It’s way too time-consuming to correct all of the “truths” presented by you and those august publications. So let’s just do those “truths” presented by the WSJ editorial, shall we?

    “He’s [Rove] the one who told the press the truth that Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife, not by Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Wilson was asserting on the airwaves.”

    No and no. As the CIA itself has reported, his wife mentioned in a memo that her husband had had dealings with two Niger officials who could prove helpful. That is not “sending” Wilson anywhere. As Wilson wrote in his NYT piece, and has maintained since, Cheney’s questions about the uranium connection prompted the CIA to delve further into it by sending someone there. That is not claiming that Cheney sent him.

    “The same can’t be said for Mr. Wilson, who first “outed” himself as a CIA consultant in a melodramatic New York Times op-ed in July 2003. At the time he claimed to have thoroughly debunked the Iraq-Niger yellowcake uranium connection that President Bush had mentioned in his now famous “16 words” on the subject in that year’s State of the Union address.”

    No, he didn’t claim to have debunked the connection. He pointed out that at least two other U.S. representatives had investigated in Niger, and he said specifically that he had a small role in the investigation.

    “But his day in the political sun was short-lived. The bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee report last July cited the note that Ms. Plame had sent recommending her husband for the Niger mission. “Interviews and documents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD [Counterproliferation Division] employee, suggested his name for the trip,” said the report.”

    Again, no. And that information is not in the report itself but in an addendum written by three Republican senators.

    “The same bipartisan report also pointed out that the forged documents Mr. Wilson claimed to have discredited hadn’t even entered intelligence channels until eight months after his trip. And it said the CIA interpreted the information he provided in his debrief as mildly supportive of the suspicion that Iraq had been seeking uranium in Niger.”

    No, no and no. Again, that allegation is NOT in the report but in the addendum. And Wilson did NOT claim to have discredited those documents. In his NYT article, he said specifically that he had NOT read the documents. And in a letter to the committee, Wilson pointed to elements in the main report that said the exact opposite of the CIA interpretation — that the CIA found the information to undercut the suspicion.

    “In short, Joe Wilson hadn’t told the truth about what he’d discovered in Africa, how he’d discovered it, what he’d told the CIA about it, or even why he was sent on the mission. The media and the Kerry campaign promptly abandoned him, though the former never did give as much prominence to his debunking as they did to his original accusations. But if anyone can remember another public figure so entirely and thoroughly discredited, let us know.”

    In short, Joe Wilson had told the truth about what he’d discovered, how he’d discovered it, what he’d told the CIA about it and why he was sent. The WSJ twisted, obscured, even obliterated reality in its perverse attempt to support the president. If anyone can remember another major newspaper — in fact, let’s make that another ADMINISTRATION — so entirely and thoroughly discredited, let me know.