Reichert voted for punitive immigration bill

We are a nation of immigrants, a fact brought home in Seattle and other cities around the nation yesterday when hundreds of thousands marched through the streets in support of humane and pragmatic immigration reform:

From sidewalks and bus stops and stranded cars along the way, onlookers stared in awe at a spectacle seldom seen in Seattle

Comments

  1. 1

    Richard Pope spews:

    Actually, Goldy has this vote thing all wrong. The punitive measure is to make illegal immigration a felony.

    191 Democrats and 65 Republicans voted to make illegal immigration a felony, by voting “NO” on an amendment to change this from a felony to a misdemeanor.

    156 Republicans and 8 Democrats voted “YES” to make illegal immigration a misdemeanor, instead of a felony.

    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll655.xml

    Washington House members voting to make illegal immigration a felony: Brian Baird, Norm Dicks, Jay Inslee, Rick Larsen, Jim McDermott, and Adam Smith.

    Washington House members voting to make illegal immigration a misdemeanor: Doc Hastings, Cathy McMorris, and Dave Reichert.

  2. 2

    AlGore spews:

    82- Republicans legalized Cuban “illegal immigration”

    Do you have dates or links that show this was done by republicans and not democrats?

    I did not think so. Do you speak “shrill”?

  3. 3

    Daddy Love spews:

    Dave Reichert:
    He’s the chief architect of our out-of-control KingCo Sheriff’s Department. He couldn’t manage a kindergarten class.

  4. 5

    Daddy Love spews:

    Correction Richard Pope:

    The immigration bill as written, as introduced, and as approved by committee make illegal immigration a felony. Democrats just allowed themselves the pleasure of watching Republicans forced to kill their own bill because it was batshit crazy.

  5. 7

    GottaBeRight spews:

    Bottom line: Our country was built on LEGAL immigration. Those here illegally are already criminals under the law. Whenever anybody tries to cut in line in front of me I give them a quick boot back to the end of the line where they belong.

  6. 9

    REV Jesse [JCH]Jacksoooooon spews:

    Goldy, Looking for a few million new illegal Democrat votes? Why not just bus in Mexico??

  7. 11

    AlGore spews:

    Those republicans want to close off the border and supply of low-cost labor for their sweatshops, in order to minimize/maximize profits. They also want to keep the illegals from getting those construction jobs the Americans do not want to do so that union wages will not be depressed.

    If all the illegals become Americans, who then will do the jobs Americans do not want to do?

  8. 12

    headless lucy spews:

    re 2: …unless they are bigger and stronger than you. In which case you mutter something under your breath and leave things the way they are. I know how you guys are.

    CHICKENHAWKS!!

  9. 13

    soundcrossing@hotmail.com spews:

    I don’t know one conservative (personally) that is anti-immigration. I do know a whole bunch that are anti-illegal immigration.

    The Hispanic workers I know have all been hard working, on time, kick ass employees and friends. All in the country legally (verified). The ones I still keep in touch with are phenominally upset that there is a chance illegals are going to get a free pass when my friends had to work so hard to get here legally. That goes for some of my non-Hispanic legal immigrant friends I’ve met through the course of my work.

    I do think there needs to be intelligent immigration reform and nothing from either party resembles that yet. But I wholeheartedly agree that we should strengthen the sanctions against the criminals that cross into our country illegally, well intentioned or not.

  10. 14

    AlGore spews:

    Why are the illegals referred to as “undocumented”? How can they even work unless they have documents such as a green card or Social security card? Does amnesty include overlooking the document fraud in addition to the immigration law breaking?

    If we get some sort of amnesty program in place should there be racial profiling to implement? Is there any reason an illegal from Yemen, Syria, Iran or Saudi Arabia should have any less of an opportunity to slip in to work, and then have a smooth path to US citizenship?

  11. 15

    spews:

    Rep. Dave Reichert’s religious organization -Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod- does not support his position. They support President Bush’s plan (which is supported by mainstream Dems and Repubs) which allows illegal immigrants who have been here a long, long time a chance for American citizenship.

    Reichert is out of touch with his own faith on this issue.

    http://www.elca.org/Scriptlib/.....7&p=7

  12. 16

    headless lucy spews:

    Unfortunately, we will not be hearing from Puddwhack for a while. He has been hired by the RNC to tour the Mid-West and drum up support for the presidentby re-creating the stirring, ” I Have a Scheme”, speech that he co-wrote with Rev. Ike some decades ago. It is a rousing sermon dedicated to the proposition that one can be a good Christian as well as a charlatan and tax cheat.

    I can hear Puddy’s ringing tones — almost as if he were real:

    “I have a Sceme!

    I have a Scheme thatall men and women of whatever race or creed can beg money in Jesus’ name and never work another day in their lives.!

    I have a scheme , brothers and sisters, I have a scheme!!”

    It almost makes me cry…

  13. 18

    AlGore spews:

    10- Senator John Kerry’s religious organization -Catholic Church- does not support his position on abortion.

    Kerry is out of touch with his own faith on this issue.

    ‘which allows illegal immigrants who have been here a long, long time a chance for American citizenship’

    Who in the world, aside from terrorists, do not have a chance for American citizenship?

  14. 19

    spews:

    @ 13

    Mr. Vice President: I love your stuff on global warning, but you are incorrect on this issue.

    Sen. Kerry is against abortion, but he does not believe he has the right to deny the right of choice to others. He is also measures up favorably with the Catholic “Seamless Garmet” belief.

    Anyway, thanks for all your hard work on the environment!

  15. 20

    freek spews:

    @12

    Yes. Punish people that hire illegal imigrants the same way the government punishes narcotics distributors: confiscate their businesses and throw them in jail for a very long time. It would be much more effective and cost far less than any fence.

  16. 21

    Goldy spews:

    Libertarian @12,

    The only realistic way to stop illegal immigration is to change the economic conditions that promote it. There are millions of low-pay jobs unfilled in the US, and millions of poor Mexicans and others looking for work.

    One of the main tenets of free market capitalism is that labor is mobile and will move to where the jobs are.

  17. 22

    AlGore spews:

    14-Sen. Kerry is against abortion, but he does not believe he has the right to deny the right of choice to others.

    Kerry is not really against abortion if abortion is defined the way his church defines it. That is, if Kerry thought the unborn child is actually a person, like any other child, a reasonable person would assume he would advocate legislating that murder is illegal.

    ‘Anyway, thanks for all your hard work on the environment!’

    Not a problem. For the compliment I present you with an advance on some of my speeches I am working on for the future. To start with – the world will soon be heading into a disasterous ice age. We must get serious right now or our grandkids will freeze to death!!!!!!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opi.....world.html

  18. 23

    AlGore spews:

    15 Punish people that hire illegal imigrants the same way the government punishes narcotics distributors

    No, just instruct the employer that until the employee presents a valid SSN they should not employ them. Is this stuff too simple to understand?

  19. 24

    freek spews:

    @18 “just instruct the employer that until the employee presents a valid SSN they should not employ them”

    Isn’t that exactly what’s done today? Works real well :-/

  20. 25

    AlGore spews:

    16 You need to get out more. (Beyond MoveOn and DailyKos that is.)

    ‘The only realistic way to stop illegal immigration is to change the economic conditions that promote it.’

    Rubbish. The US can do little beyond things like NAFTA to change the way Mexico genrates poverty. And we know how the left likes NAFTA and CAFTA. And the low wage jobs here in the US? Which is it – the left wants the lowest wages lifted to “living wages” regardless of market value, or the border gates should stay open to workers and terrorists so that the wages can stay low?

    ‘One of the main tenets of free market capitalism is that labor is mobile and will move to where the jobs are.’

    Here you go cherry picking the intelligence. Wait, that is another story. Free markets have a much higher reliance on the rule of law, and to a lesser extent on the ability of nations to maintain sovereignty and freedom. When one-half of the illegal immigration problem involves a country like Mexico or nations where terrorists flourish a free market cannot survive with mushy laws.

  21. 26

    Libertarian spews:

    The crazy thing about Mexico is that they’re sitting on a lot of resources – like oil. It’s their culture that won’t let them progress out of third world status. Vincente Fox has proven himself ineffective at bringing Mexico out of its sorry state.

  22. 27

    AlGore spews:

    19-Isn’t that exactly what’s done today? Works real well :-/

    No. The employer is not allowed to fire anyone based on an invalid SSN, because the SSA will only instruct the employer to have the employee straighten it out. In fact the SSA specifically instructs the employer that because the invalid number may only be an error that can possibly be corrected, the employee should not be fired. And the employers are not allowed to verify SSNs before hiring the individual.

    It does not work because policies are designed to not allow it to work.

  23. 28

    AlGore spews:

    9-Does amnesty include overlooking the document fraud in addition to the immigration law breaking?

    If amnesty is provided to illegals who have broken laws regarding documents, should it be OK to use fraudulent documents to register to vote? Perhaps only if one is an illegal immigrant?

  24. 29

    eponymous coward spews:

    The problem is that we allow 700,000 to a million legal immigrants into the United States every year- and that’s for the entire world, Mexico only gets a slice of that pie. That’s WAAAAAAAAY too low.

    http://www.digitalhistory.uh.e....._chron.cfm

    Compare and contrast with the early part of the 20th century:

    http://www.socialstudieshelp.c....._Notes.htm

    From 1905 to 1914 an average of more than a million aliens entered the U.S. every year. With the outbreak of war, the volume declined sharply, and the annual average from 1915 to 1918 was little more than 250,000.

    That was at a time when the total US population was about a thrid of what it is today (92 million as opposed to 285 million). We didn’t go boom then, so why can’t we have LEGAL immigration of 2-3 million per year now?

    I’m all in favor of more borders and booting people to the back of the line once we make the limits on immigration more sensible and in line with demand…but right now, we’re King Canute trying to make the tide go back.

  25. 30

    BOB from BOEING spews:

    What the hell is with the hang up — no post thing? It happens to me half the time. Very frustrating to spend ten minutes on something and see it not post.

    Suggestions?

  26. 31

    headless lucy spews:

    I run into the same problem , Bob. I just shorten the message.

    I’ve lived on the border for many years. Many hispanic members have family on both sides of the border. The border means nothing to them.

  27. 32

    Jack Burton spews:

    What part of illegal don’t you understand?

    BOTH parties have looked the other way for decades as they both gained from doing so.

    How to stop it short of a wall and mass deportation?

    1. Stop all social services to non citizens (Emergency life threatening conditions excluded.)

    2. Enforce current laws and prosecute businesses that hire illegals.

    I’m racist right? WRONG! **My wife is from Mexico and has been naturalized.**

  28. 33

    headless lucy spews:

    ….and what’s more, it never will. 700 mile fence? “Mr. Bush. Tear down this wall!”

  29. 34

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    “Reichert and his colleagues are clearly out of step with mainstream Americans”

    Republicans figure they don’t need to be in step with mainstream Americans as long as the voting machines are in step with them, and they’re counting on their Republican buddies who own the voting machine companies to make sure of that.

  30. 35

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The most laughable thing in all of this is NeoCONS accuse Democrats of vote rigging and election stealing!!

  31. 36

    Libertarian spews:

    Bob @ 25:

    I’ve had that problem before. It seems that posting is like an ethernet: if somebody’s posting while you try, you get the error message.

    To get around it, before I click “Say it!!”, I highlight what I’ve written and copy it to the clipboard for temporary use. Then I click “Say it!!.” If I get the error message, I simply re-post, but instead of writing something new, I just paste what’s on the clipboard and fire away. It may not be the slickest technique for overcoming that annoying message, but it works!

  32. 37

    klake spews:

    SLAVERY IN AMERICA

    Slavery in America (Plantation System)”In 1790, approximately 17% of the white families in the United States owned slaves, and the average number of slaves per family was 7.3. In the South, 28 percent of the families owned slaves, with an average of 7.5 slaves per family. In 1860, slaveholders numbered only 338,637out of nearly 8 million whites in the South (4%). Of these, 2,292 were classified as large planters holding 100 slaves or more: Thus, a handful of Southerners (1 person of every 3,490) held at least 60 percent of the region’s slaves in 1860.” Page34.

    The Black History I am looking for states that thirty percent of the whites owned slaves and the remainder was owned by Blacks and Indians. The numbers owned by the Blacks and Indians was not spelled out, and their must be a valid reason for this over site. The Indians raided other tribes and took members as slaves. They also did it to white setters who move into their territories during the Western movement.

    “Southern free Blacks were, however, allowed to own property, including slaves. In this way, a number of individuals were able to purchase and then liberate their wives, husbands, children, and other relatives. After 1830, however, free blacks living in the slave states were legally obliged to keep their loved ones in a condition of legal bondage, because antimanumission laws prevented any other course of action.” Page 39. This is where the book does not introduce the numbers of slave owners and what types of labor they engaged in for a living. Believe me the dirty little secret is that Blacks owned slaves to make a living, and less on freeing family members. The actual numbers probability will not be publish for that could have political consequences for the Blacks, and those who support repatriation today.

    The University of Washington used a book that they taught Black history from that might have the detailed information listed. Anybody who knows about that reference book would you please post it on this website, thanks.

    Headless Lucy maybe you might have something on this subject matter in your Library.

    The New York Public Library African American Desk Reference

    http://search.barnesandnoble.c.....#038;itm=1

    TABLE OF CONTENTS
    The Saga of African American History.
    Slavery and Freedom.
    Politics and Civil Rights.
    The Diaspora.
    Family and Heritage.
    Religion.
    Education.
    Health.
    Business and Entrepreneurship.
    Science and Technology.
    The Military.
    The Law.
    Literature and Language.
    Music.
    Performing Arts.
    Fine and Applied Arts.
    The Media.
    Sports.
    Resources.
    Illustration Credits.
    Index.

  33. 38

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    On immigration issues, as by their racism and xenophobia, Republicans once again are demonstrating classic primitive tribalism behavior. Their economic policies are mired in the Stone Age, too. And, of course, our own bet welshing trollfuck, MTR, believes in the Divine Right of Presidents — i.e., whatever George W. Bush does is, by definition, legal because he is the president! Talk about a retrograde bunch; Republicans were born 10,000 years too late. Yo

  34. 39

    Richard Pope spews:

    Rep. Dave Reichert’s religious organization -Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod- does not support his position. They support President Bush’s plan (which is supported by mainstream Dems and Repubs) which allows illegal immigrants who have been here a long, long time a chance for American citizenship.

    Reichert is out of touch with his own faith on this issue.

    http://www.elca.org/Scriptlib/.....7&p=7

    Commentby Will— 4/11/06@ 11:00 am

    Will, your link is to the EVANGELICAL LUTHERAN CHURCH OF AMERICA. It is a different church the LUTHERAN CHURCH MISSOURI SYNOD.

  35. 41

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    u wonder if global warming is responsible for all the NeoCONS running around; it’s as if they’re Pleistocene hominids who melted out of the ice caps.

  36. 42

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    35

    Agree with you on what, Richard? Do you think I’m some sort of expert on Lutheranism?

  37. 44

    Horseofanothercolor spews:

    Somewhat off-topic, but since Goldy doesn’t put up the Open Thread till later in the day, here goes:

    Does anyone really believe that the president, a man who wouldn’t testify in front of the 9/11 Commission without Cheney by his side, suddenly woke up one morning and thought: “I need to selectively declassify the paragraphs at the bottom of page 24 of the 2002 NIE so we can perpetuate the myth that Iraq was ‘vigorously trying to procure’ uranium from Africa. Let me get Cheney on the phone and give him his marching orders.”?

  38. 46

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    25

    What the hell is with the hang up — no post thing? It happens to me half the time. Very frustrating to spend ten minutes on something and see it not post. Suggestions? Commentby BOB from BOEING— 4/11/06@ 12:17 pm

    After you type your post, highlight, right click, and left click on “copy.” Then click on “Say it!” and if your post vaporizes (as mine frequently do), just paste your post into the “Your Comment” box and try again.

  39. 47

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    32

    Page 34 of what, klake? The book you cited? Or are you spewing David Horowitz crap? Sure, a handful of blacks owned slaves, but your lame attempt to suggest that U.S. slavery was a black-Native American phenomenon is pure b.s.

  40. 48

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    13

    “Who in the world, aside from terrorists, do not have a chance for American citizenship? Commentby AlGore— 4/11/06@ 11:07 am”

    A lot of people don’t. The U.S. has had rigid (and tiny) immigration quotas for many countries for years.

  41. 49

    bill spews:

    What the hell is with the hang up — no post thing? It happens to me half the time. Very frustrating to spend ten minutes on something and see it not post. Suggestions? Commentby BOB from BOEING— 4/11/06@ 12:17 pm

    The previous suggestions are good, but you can also right click on the window and reload, then when it asks if you want to repost, say yes.

  42. 50

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    13

    “Who in the world, aside from terrorists, do not have a chance for American citizenship? Commentby AlGore— 4/11/06@ 11:07 am”

    If all the people who demonstrated yesterday had a chance for American citizenship, they wouldn’t have demonstrated. A million marchers say you don’t know what you’re talking about.

  43. 51

    proud leftist spews:

    Pope @ 34
    You are correct that the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA) and the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod are different birds. The ELCA is a relatively moderate Protestant denomination, while the LCMS is paternalistic and judgmental. The synod does not even ordain women. You also won’t find much dancing at an LCMS gathering. I find it quite telling that Reichert is a Missouri Synod Lutheran. That explains some of his neanderthal qualities.

  44. 52

    REV Jesse [JCH]Jacksoooooon spews:

    Today we march. Tomorrow we vote! And don’t the Democrats know it! Why do you think Ted Kennedy and Hillary were in full pandering mode yesterday? Remember, there are movements in areas of Hispanic population concentration for giving non-citizens the vote in local elections. In New York City there are calls for allowing illegal aliens to vote. After the next amnesty agreement the pressure will be on to get these Hispanics, citizens and non-citizens, to the polls.

  45. 53

    right-where-I-want-to-be spews:

    The Pacific Northwest–it’s not known for being a Republican stronghold. Nonetheless, there are a few important developments in GOP politics out there right now that could well change the face of politics in the region. There’s also quite a bit of controversy, and as several races are heating up, innuendo, mischaracterization and misrepresentation are becoming the main political tools of some of the principal contenders.
    Let’s start by looking at one of my favorites, the race for the 8th district in Washington, currently represented by Congressman Dave Reichert. In a state where policy-making off the back of extensive research and analysis is prized, and explaining policy by reference to religion or dogma is very much frowned upon, Congressman Reichert has become a respected representative known for his careful, independent study of issues, and his willingness–even as a first term Congressman–to break ranks with the GOP leadership on issues like the development of ANWR and the overhaul of endangered species legislation. Last month, he was recognized as a centrist by National Journal, probably because of these votes, his vote against federal intervention in the Terri Schiavo case, his vocal support for separation of church and state, and his belief in changing laws so that “everyone has the same rights” to ensure that legal hurdles for gay couples are eliminated, without gay marriage being legalized. He is an outstanding example of a legislator who takes an investigative approach to issues, and whose approach and views accord with large proportion of Washingtonians–and the majority of people in his district, based on my personal experience. He is a libertarian-leaning, environmentally concerned, supply-side Republican–just what the 8th district needs.

    Reichert may have won his first race with just 51% of the vote, but his record makes him far stronger than anyone would have predicted. Certainly, Reichert is looking stronger than his Democratic challenger, Darcy Burner, a former Microsoft executive who for some reason thought her anti-war platform and her lack of discussion on her website of her positions on tax and spending–which are of core concern in this fiscally conservative district–would play to the masses. Having realized that Reichert’s record is in sync with the profile of the district–and that in line with that, he’s doing well in raising money–she and fellow Washington Democrats have resorted to innuendo, mischaracterization and misrepresentation in order to weaken his chances.

    Back in February, Burner’s campaign tried to imply that Reichert is anti-environment by pointing to a 28% rating by the League of Conservation Voters. This is a blatant mischaracterization of Reichert’s record and stance when it comes to the environment–a big issue in the 8th district. Reichert gets ratings in the 30s from the American Wilderness Coalition and the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund. In the case of AWC, that means that Joe Lieberman outranks Reichert by less than 20%– making the divergence between him and those recognized as Congressional leaders on environmental protection initiatives look smaller than Ms Burner seeks to imply. And Reichert still outranks moderate Republicans like Jim Kolbe by more than 20%, based on LCV’s 2005 rating.

    Plus, the Sierra Club commended Reichert for his refusal to back ANWR drilling–a position which sadly he, and many other pro-environment legislators had to abandon after being forced to choose between paying for continued military operations in Iraq, or preventing drilling.

    8th district voters should pay attention on this one. Reichert may not be an eco-warrior like some from Washington. But when allegations are made to suggest that he reliably toes the party line on the environment, and that he’s weak when it comes to environmental protection, it’s mischaracterization and distortion of the worst kind. And it’s all the less credible given that the anti-environment innuendo is being made by a candidate whose website shows that she is not endorsed by a single environmental organization.

    Liz Mair

  46. 54

    REV Jesse [JCH]Jacksoooooon spews:

    t a few months ago, the media was reporting that Democrats were going to steal the illegal immigration issue away from Republicans and ride it to victory in November. Hillary Clinton came out against illegal immigration. But now, that’s all gone by the wayside. The Democrats are back to their familiar position….defending the lawbreakers.

    Enter Ted Kennedy. The Senator from Chappaquiddick has weighed in with his position on illegal immigration. He says these protests by the invaders from the south are reminiscent of the civil rights movement, which is an insult to those who won that cause. Ted Kennedy thinks we should just swing open the doors and let all the illegals in that want to come…without any limits.

    But in the end, politicians like Kennedy don’t see millions of people breaking our laws, sponging off our resources and threatening our national security. To Kennedy, he seems more Democratic voters and potential children of the welfare state.

  47. 55

    REV Jesse [JCH]Jacksoooooon spews:

    Chicago, IL, United States – The former patronage chief for Chicago Mayor Richard Daley ordered computer files destroyed following FBI questions about hiring practices, prosecutors claim. While destroying the city records and the personal computer of former Office of Intergovernmental Affairs head Robert Sorich happened in 1997, prosecutors charged Monday that it showed a pattern of covering up illegal city hiring practices. The defendants are to go on trial May 10.

    Nothing to get excited about it’s just SOP for Democrat-run US cities. See Detroit, Philadelphia, New Orleans, etc. etc. etc.

  48. 56

    momus spews:

    Goldy,

    You are a fucking joke.

    Are you actually going to sit there and talk about your views on solving the immigration issue in this country?

    How about you figuring out how to keep a marriage together first, shitbird.

    Once you accomplished that, move on to the next step.

    Like Raising children without the long term damage a divorces causes.

  49. 57

    spews:

    Richard Pope @ 34

    (From the website)

    “LIRS is a joint ministry of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod and Latvian Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.”

    Pope: You gotta read the page. I don’t blame you for missing it, but it does put a mark on your record as the master investigator.

  50. 60

    JDB spews:

    Momus @ 50:

    “Are you actually going to sit there and talk about your views on solving the immigration issue in this country?

    How about you figuring out how to keep a marriage together first, shitbird.

    Once you accomplished that, move on to the next step.

    Like Raising children without the long term damage a divorces causes.“

    So you are saying that Ronald Reagan, Newt Gingrich, Henry Hyde, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Medved, etc. etc and so on plus about 35% of the Republican Party should have no input on national issues?

    Good, I agree with you on that.

  51. 62

    JDB spews:

    [Just another Chicken Hawk]

    Yep, the world would be a much better place for you without all these uppity minorities, wouldn’t it. But ever since they closed down the Butler compound in Idaho, you just don’t have anywhere to call your own.

  52. 63

    Richard Pope spews:

    Will @ 34

    I have re-read your link.

    First of all, the statements are the personal views of the head of Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service (LIRS). LIRS is a joint ministry of three different Lutheran denominations. It is quite a stretch to say that a statement by the head of LIRS represents the official position of any of the three denominations.

    Second, I don’t see anything by the head of LIRS — being supportive of the Bush proposal — which contradicts anything in the bill that Dave Reichert recently voted for. Nor anything in the Reichert supported bill which contradicts anything in Bush’s proposal.

    Bush wants to give an extremely limited form of amnesty — the opportunity for temporary guest worker visas — to many of the 12 million or so illegal aliens already present in this country.

  53. 64

    klake spews:

    Page 34 of what, klake? The book you cited? Or are you spewing David Horowitz crap? Sure, a handful of blacks owned slaves, but your lame attempt to suggest that U.S. slavery was a black-Native American phenomenon is pure b.s.

    Commentby Roger Rabbit— 4/11/06@ 1:09 pm

    Roger a question for you as what party sold those folks into slavery in Africa to the traders? That was the first source of the slavery problem, and the new owners of the slaves were the second part of the problem. Today due to those who carry baggage and those who exploited that problem are now the new 21-century slave owners. I.e. Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the many other political hacks. These chaps are holding them bondage to that era just for their own personal gains. Maybe you should listen to Bill Crosby and take in his point of view about this subject. Then you might understand the personnel attacks he took from those who are exploiting the Blacks today.

    Reference to page 34 of The New York Public Library African American Desk Reference is where I quoted that statement.

    When people deny their part of the problem, is when the problem has a greater probability of happening again at a later point in time. The Blacks have to accept their part in that dark part of history. Shipping them to other parts of the world did more damage to Africa than gains to the new masters. Today Slavery still exist in that part of the world, and tribal war fare still takes large tolls to the population so the cycle goes on forever.

    Roger lets not let the Native Indian off the hook for their part if you want to put blame where it belongs. I still remember stories that my Grandmother told me about the American Indian, and she is full blood Indian.

  54. 65

    Richard Pope spews:

    Mexico’s Immigration Law: Let’s Try it Here at Home

    By J. Michael Waller

    Mexico has a radical idea for a rational immigration policy that most Americans would love. However, Mexican officials haven’t been sharing that idea with us as they press for our Congress to adopt the McCain-Kennedy immigration reform bill.

    That’s too bad, because Mexico, which annually deports more illegal aliens than the United States does, has much to teach us about how it handles the immigration issue. Under Mexican law, it is a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.

    At a time when the Supreme Court and many politicians seek to bring American law in line with foreign legal norms, it’s noteworthy that nobody has argued that the US look at how Mexico deals with immigration and what it might teach us about how best to solve our illegal immigration problem. Mexico has a single, streamlined law that ensures that foreign visitors and immigrants are:

    • in the country legally;
    • have the means to sustain themselves economically;
    • not destined to be burdens on society;
    • of economic and social benefit to society;
    • of good character and have no criminal records; and
    • contributors to the general well-being of the nation.

    The law also ensures that:

    • immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor;
    • foreign visitors do not violate their visa status;
    • foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country’s internal politics;
    • foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;
    • foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;
    • those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.

    Who could disagree with such a law? It makes perfect sense. The Mexican constitution strictly defines the rights of citizens – and the denial of many fundamental rights to noncitizens,
    illegal and illegal. Under the constitution, the Ley General de Población, or General Law on Population, spells out specifically the country’s immigration policy.

    It is an interesting law – and one that should cause us all to ask, Why is our great southern neighbor pushing us to water down our own immigration laws and policies, when its own immigration restrictions are the toughest on the continent? If a felony is a crime punishable by more than one year in prison, then Mexican law makes it a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.

    If the United States adopted such statutes, Mexico no doubt would denounce it as a manifestation of American racism and bigotry.

    http://www.centerforsecuritypo.....on_Law.pdf

  55. 66

    ProudLCMS spews:

    Proud Leftist @ 46: “…while the LCMS is paternalistic and judgmental. The synod does not even ordain women. You also won’t find much dancing at an LCMS gathering. I find it quite telling that Reichert is a Missouri Synod Lutheran. That explains some of his neanderthal qualities.”

    Hmmm….so what does that make folks like John Kerry and Edward Kennedy? Don’t they belong to a “judgemental” denomination that doesn’t ordain women too?

  56. 67

    rhp6033 spews:

    Richard Pope at 59:

    If Mexico’s laws make so much sense, then why are there so many illegals from Honduras and El Salvador entering into the U.S. through Mexico?

    The laws in the U.S. make sense, until you realize that they are unenforceable against the numbers which are already in our country, much less those who will enter.

  57. 68

    rhp6033 spews:

    Sorry, despite the attempts by radio pundits to classify the immigration issue as a Democrat vs. Republican issue, I don’t think that dichotomy holds out. Neither party has a clear policy on immigration. The traditional supporters of each party are divided on the issue.

    Example 1: Many Republicans favor a crackdown on immigration due to fears of a dilution of the anglo-saxon cultural hegomony. But most Republican-supporting business interests actually favor an immigration amnesty and a generous guest-worker program in order to get cheap labor and keep wages low generally.

    Example 2: Many Democrats favor immigration amnesty and a path to citizenship, in part because if traditional identification with minorities, and in part because they expect those minorities to vote more Democratic than Republican. But organized labor itself is split on the issue. Some favor amnesty as a path toward organizing the workers, but want stricter border enforcement to protect against the downward pressure on wages.

    As of now, the Republican House and the Republican Senate cannot even agree on the basics of the issue. Immigration reform is indeed a serious issue, but I don’t think its really a Democratic/Republican issue right now. It might be very soon, if either party makes it a coehsive issue, but not yet. Right now politicians from both parties are trying to get hold of polling numbers, and many are regretting comments they made just a few months ago before this became a serious issue. I think the confusion reflects the very divided opinions of most Americans on this issue.

  58. 69

    klake spews:

    If the United States adopted such statutes, Mexico no doubt would denounce it as a manifestation of American racism and bigotry.

    http://www.centerforsecuritypo.....on_Law.pdf

    Commentby Richard Pope— 4/11/06@ 2:38 pm
    Richard it appears everyone is checking out that link, its to busy now to connect. You bring a very interesting point. Thanks

  59. 70

    headless lucy spews:

    re 32: Klake: I’ll gladly answer your question if you will answer mine—honestly. Klake: What percentage of the slave ships that brought African slaves to the U.S. were owned and operated by African-Americans and Native-Americans.

    When you find the answer to this question, I would love to hear YOUR analysis of what it means and what it tells us about slavery in America and who was responsible for it.

  60. 71

    LiberalRedneck spews:

    -Our country was built on LEGAL immigration-

    Right wingers like to pretend today’s immigrants are somehow different from yesterday’s immigrants. History proves that theory to be wrong, too.

    http://www.digitalhistory.uh.e.....ration.cfm

    Many Italian immigrants never planned to stay in the United States permanently. The proportion returning to Italy varied between 11 percent and 73 percent. Unlike most earlier immigrants to America, they did not want to farm, which implied a permanence that did not figure in their plans. Instead, they headed for cities, where labor was needed and wages were relatively high. Expecting their stay in America to be brief, Italian immigrants lived as inexpensively as possible under conditions that native-born families considered intolerable.

    For many Italian immigrants, migration to the United States could not be interpreted as a rejection of Italy. In reality, it was a defense of the Italian way of life, for the money sent home helped to preserve the traditional order. Rather than seeking permanent homes, they desired an opportunity to work for a living, hoping to save enough money to return to a better life in the country of their birth.

    Historians use the phrase “birds of passage” to describe immigrants who never intended to make the United States their permanent home. Unable to earn a livelihood in their home countries, they were migratory laborers. Most were young men in their teens and twenties, who planned to work, save money, and return home. They left behind their parents, young wives, and children, indications that their absence would not be long. Before 1900 an estimated 78 percent of Italian immigrants were men. Many of them traveled to America in the early spring, worked until late fall, and then returned to the warmer climates of their southern European homes winter. Overall, 20 to 30 percent of Italian immigrants returned to Italy permanently.

  61. 72

    klake spews:

    When you find the answer to this question, I would love to hear YOUR analysis of what it means and what it tells us about slavery in America and who was responsible for it.
    Commentby headless lucy— 4/11/06@ 2:57 pm

    Nationality of Ships Engaged in the Atlantic Slave Trade: 1701 to 1800

    English; 2,468,000
    Portuguese; 1,888,000
    French; 1,104,000
    Dutch; 349,000
    North American; 206,000
    Danish; 66,000
    Other; (Swedish/Brandenbuger) 10,000

    My take; the folks in Africa did not have means to transport their victims to other nations. The Native American had anyone to their choosing because they move into their territory or were their neighbors. The Slave Traders also raided villages if the locals could not keep up with the demands of that time.

  62. 73

    LiberalRedneck spews:

    -Like Raising children without the long term damage a divorces causes. –

    Psychos like momus lecturing others on how they should live their lives? A little transferrence going on there, pal? Or, is it just a desperate attempt to shut Goldy up with that silly Church Lady routine?

  63. 74

    proud leftist spews:

    ProudLCMS @ 60
    In response to your comment, I think the Catholic church most certainly has some evolving to do on the issue of ordination of women and most of my Catholic friends believe that as well. Christ (remember the story of Martha and Mary) plainly worked to bring women into positions of power and influence within the early church. That being said, I probably should not be characterizing another’s religion in a judgmental fashion.

  64. 75

    LiberalRedneck spews:

    -How about you figuring out how to keep a marriage together first, shitbird.
    Once you accomplished that, move on to the next step.-

    For the record, momus, if I had posted something half as vicious as that on the Sound Politics board (and I have), Sharkansky would delete it in a matter of minutes. Says a lot about how much Goldy values the exchange of ideas – and it says a lot about what an intolerant wimp Sharkansky is….right wingers can dole it out by the truckload, but they sure can’t take much, themselves!

    Most of you psycho Republicans just secretly hate yourselves, and think that somehow hating others (especially those who can’t defend themselves) will solve that little problem! And since that little trick never works (it just makes you hate yourselves more) we see this endless cycle of xenophobia, homophobia, racism, Islamophobia, mysogyny, etc forming the basis of the modern conservative movement. An entire party and movement formed around fear. Lovely.

  65. 76

    headless lucy spews:

    RE 66: Well, Klake, since you seem so eager to ascribe motive, intent , and blame for people who lived hundreds of years ago , not to figure out what happened then but to twist it and use it to promote your agenda here and now,well then ,I’ll bypass all your crap and just tell you what I think you’re up to.

    I think you , like all Republicans, is scared about what is going to happen in’06, so you are working overtime to find anything divisive to help ypur partiy’s fortumes. You don’t care about truth– only winning.

  66. 77

    LiberalRedneck spews:

    -The crazy thing about Mexico is that they’re sitting on a lot of resources – like oil. It’s their culture that won’t let them progress out of third world status.-

    Yeah, really crazy, Libertarian. And what is George Bush doing about trying to get Mexico to follow the path of democracy and free enterprise (let alone family planning) so they don’t have so many people trying to flee their own country? Hm. Nothing.

  67. 78

    Yo spews:

    Good for Reichert. Don’t confuse Immigrant with ILLEGAL immigrant. There is a world of difference, even though all the media are trying to blur it.
    And liberlredneck, shouldn’t MEXICO be doing something about making Mexico a more prosperous place to be??

  68. 79

    klake spews:

    I think you, like all Republicans, is scared about what is going to happen in’06, so you are working overtime to find anything divisive to help your parity’s fortunes. You do not care about truth– only winning.

    Comment by headless Lucy— 4/11/06@ 3:45 pm

    Headless Lucy is the truth being purge out of our library system in the name of political correctness. Lucy you know if a book is not check out of the library system it is replace by another book. The purpose is they do not have enough shelf space in the libraries. These books are sold to the many use book resellers, and are bought by the reading public. Now that book sets on their bookshelves for many years and after the die are sold estate sales. Now these books are use as decorative items in some restaurants or furniture stores. Before they go on display, they glue all the books together making them useless to read. The subject matter has no real reason to discard them, but if teachers do not encourage their students to read, the books are not check out. That is the first stage of the crime committed. The public should be aware of the many different views and the teacher cannot be the filter. The second crime is the Librarian who does not provide the information to the student when inquiring about the subject matter. The Third crime is the Folks who run the library system and provides little or no storage space for these books. The reseller has not committed a crime unless they sell them to a glue factory. Lucy I discover this bit of information when the Gulf War started, and I was doing research on desert warfare, this book reseller explained how bookshelves were being purge. Now that sounds a little like the 30’s in Germany when folks were burning books in the streets. When you hoard or destroy information, you are doing humanity an injustice and history repeats itself. Lucy I do not have a crystal ball and what is going to happen in 06 is the least of my worries or fears.

  69. 80

    AlGore spews:

    43- The U.S. has had rigid (and tiny) immigration quotas for many countries for years.

    So it is difficult, and more difficult for some than others. My response was to a comment that implied the marching illegals do not have a chance to become US citizens. Pay attention please.

    45- If all the people who demonstrated yesterday had a chance for American citizenship, they wouldn’t have demonstrated.

    Are you ignorant, or do you just prefer to speak “shrill” rather than in an inteligent, coherent manner? What you must mean to say is that the illegal marchers want a path to citizenship that does not include going through the process US laws requires. Are there any other laws that should be cancelled? Perhaps the laws governing employment and worker safety are also too difficult to obey. Obviously the US should excuse any fraud associated with using “documents” required by “undocumented” illegals to get jobs.

  70. 81

    Yo spews:

    YYou do not care about truth–only winning.”
    Did you vote for Bill Clinton? I think that was his campaign slogan.