Read the Bill

“And I think if you’re going to get on your feet and debate, and make assertions, you should really be familiar with the content of the bill”
– Minnesota Senator Al Franken, while handing South Dakota Senator John Thune his own ass.


  1. 1

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Why did Franken assume that guy can read? Thune is a career politician who attended a Bible college.

  2. 2


    President Franken. Now there is an idea.

    BTW when all you are going to do is oppose the bill, and lie about what is in it, you don’t need to read anything except what the lobbyists tell you say….

    Republicans Are A Disease

  3. 4

    Mathew "RennDawg" Renner spews:

    What is wrong with Bible college. I am going to Bible College. I find that most graduates of great Bible colleges, like Hyles-Anderson Baptist Bible College or Golden State Bible College, are ten times smarter that most Ivy League College graduates. Also you get ral world experiences at these colleges instead of hiding in the classroom. Like at Hyles-Anderson you have to do ministry work in the worst areas of Chicago (the college is in Hammond Indiana a suburb of Chicago) You learn how to truly love. How to truly help. I would go so far as to say that the Church that Hyles-Anderson is a ministry of, First Baptist Church, has done more for inner city African-Americans then Jeremiah Wright’s church has done as long as he has been there.

  4. 5

    Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

    Went to Think Progress and they said Franken

    Franken may have overstated his case, however. While the bill offers some substantial immediate benefits, the bulk of reform does not kick in until 2014, once the exchanges are established.

    The exchanges don’t open until 2014. That’s when “it works” for people who want the government to be in charge. Sure the bill gives Medicare coverage at 55.

    You learn how to truly love. How to truly help.

    Those are conservative qualities. Libtardos are cheap and they don’t know how to help. Puddy keeps reminding the Dumb Bunny this with the ABC News Salvation Army “experiment”. They don’t have brotherly love in the minds, as witnessed by the immediate name calling of any new conservative thinker who appears on HA Libtardos threads.

    The Prosecution Rests Your Honor.

  5. 6


    The exchanges don’t open until 2014. That’s when “it works” for people who want the government to be in charge. Sure the bill gives Medicare coverage at 55.

    That part was junked thanks to Lieberman, actually.

  6. 7

    Alki Postings spews:

    #4 No doubt the Bible colleges produce folks very versed in praising Zeus, Mohammed, Isis, Jehovah or whatever god it’s based around…and NICE people too! But smart? Hmm. If I look around NASA, Boeing Defense, Los Alamos, or the editors of Scientific American, will they be from MIT, Cal-Tech, or Golden State Bible College?

    I’m NOT saying you and the other graduates aren’t NICE people. Probably MUCH better at social services. But if I’m looking for factual based information, not magical, I’m gonna have to go with non-magical institutions. Sorry to be truthful and direct on an early Monday morning, but as much as I appreciate your “belief” that lightening is just a creation of Thor, or that the Great Raven stole our sun, or whatever you believe, I just have to stop and put in some reality here.

    I’ve spent my life trying to “tolerate” religious folks, and just nod my head respectfully while they drone on how the Titans create the earth, or how two of every animal were magically transported to a giant boat because a mad god flooded the world to punish “sin”…I just nod and pretend it’s not crazy. But at 40, I’m getting a little tired of it. You believe what you believe, and like the Amish, I have no problem with it. But unlike the Amish, many of the “bible college” graduates want to push their magical beliefs into public law. I don’t want to be told that bacon, gay marriage, or electricity is “magically” bad. Stop it.

    P.S. This wasn’t about ‘your’ post about Bible colleges specifically, just riffing on subject in general.

  7. 8

    rhp6033 spews:

    Mathew @ 4: Well, there are Bible Colleges, and then there are Bible colleges. I attended a public University myself (well, two of them, one for undergraduate studies and another for graduate school). My wife attended a Bible college.

    Some Bible colleges provide well-rounded educations as well as preparing their graduates for the ministry. Even Yale started out as a theological seminary. Notre Dame is, and remains, a Catholic university which has a well-rounded curriculmn. There are lots of Jesuit-founded colleges which put a premium on teaching from a broad perspective, so that the students can understand the wide range of human debate.

    But there are some colleges, especially those founded in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s, which were started for the exclusive idea of making sure students weren’t “polluted” by liberal ideas they might be exposed to in other colleges and universities. These schools became more about what IS NOT taught, than what IS taught.

    During the early part of George W. Bush’s administration, some of these young graduates benefited from the networking within the right-wing conservative movement, and got jobs in the administration. The problem was, they showed more obedience and faith than good judgement, and it quickly became apparant that their education had little depth. This resulted in a young lawyer in the Justice Dept. circulating a list of attorney generals to be fired for political reasons, despite such conduct being illegal. Another young graduate of a Bible College was briefly put in charge of creating the Iraqi stock exchange, despite having no experience in finance. There are other examples, but it just gets repetitive.

  8. 9

    YellowPup spews:

    @1: That must be why McCain was trying to get them to read the whole bill aloud before the vote.

  9. 10

    Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

    The exchanges don’t open until 2014. That’s when “it works” for people who want the government to be in charge. Sure the bill gives Medicare coverage at 55.

    Lee – That part was junked thanks to Lieberman, actually.

    So Franken “didn’t read the bill”? PRICELESS

    Thanks Lee.

  10. 11


    So Franken “didn’t read the bill”? PRICELESS

    Franken made that speech before the buy-in was junked (check the date).

    Fucking moron.

  11. 12


    Oh and by the way, here’s the link to that Wonk Room post:


    This afternoon, Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) openly challenged Sen. John Thune (R-SD)’s claim that the Senate health care bill does not offer benefits until 2014. “We are entitled to our own opinions; we are not entitled to our own facts,” Franken declared. “I stand here day after day after day and hear my colleagues, my good friends from the other side, say things that are not based on fact.”

    The Senate health care bill spends $10 billion between 2011 and 2014 on interim benefits. Franken explained that the bill offers immediate insurance reforms for Americans purchasing coverage in the individual market and closes the donut hole in Medicare Part D.

    “Senator Thune did say that none of the benefits started next year, but he just, I guess, hasn’t read the bill,” Farnken said. “I do find that many of my colleagues who I’m very friendly with, haven’t read the bill and are not very familiar with it.”

    The exchanges don’t open open until 2014, but the Senate health bill immediately prohibits insurers from rescinding coverage or imposing life-time or annual limits. Americans who are denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition could participate in a national high-risk pool program and young Americans can stay on their parents’ policies until they turn 26. Under the Medicare buy-in compromise, Americans between 55 and 64 would also be able to enroll in the Medicare program on day one.

    And as I’ve already pointed out to you, the buy-in was removed after this speech.

    Dance, monkey, dance!

  12. 15

    rhp6033 spews:

    The Republican senators have been giving the party’s sound bites, and are unconcerned about the real contents of the bills as being actually proposed. They know that in comfortably Red states, the news media there will not call them on it, and that’s all that matters to them.

  13. 16

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    13. SJ, Troll Patrol spews:

    The intellectual gap between right and left has become stunning. On the left there are Nobelists, economists

    You mean like Tim Geithner & Larry Summers??
    You mean like Algore and Obam-Mao.
    Too funny sj…Nobel means NOTHING, but it sounds good. Part of the Atheist Progressive stigma….feel and pretend to be intellectually superior.
    It isn’t working out too good for you.

  14. 17

    ArtFart spews:

    @16 Not to mention Rhodes Scholars like Bill Clinton.

    Let’s see…who can we cite on the other side?

    William F. Buckley

    Dr. George Will

    Richard Nixon and John Erlichmann (I’m not being facetious here) then on to…

    Ronald Reagan (never cited even by his admirers–except Piper Scott–as an intellectual giant)

    George Bush the Elder (ummm..OK.)

    George W. Bush (oh, well)

    Rush Limbaugh (college dropout)

    Glenn Beck (high-school graduate)

    Anyone see a trend here?

  15. 19

    Daddy Love spews:

    @4 MR

    I find that most graduates of great Bible colleges, like Hyles-Anderson Baptist Bible College or Golden State Bible College, are ten times smarter that most Ivy League College graduates.

    You can find a lot of things when you’re just pulling them out of your ass. I found that while your post is ten times more intelligent than Puddybud’s best, it is still one thousand, two hundred twelve times LESS useful than a well-sourced citation of fact.

    Or perhaps you could enlighten us as to the sampling model and statistical methodology of your study.

  16. 21

    lauramae spews:

    Hammond Indiana is not a suburb of Chicago, MR. Hyles Anderson. It’s not terribly far from Chicago, but it is not a suburb of Chicago. While the Chicago area does encompass Lake County, of which Hammond is a part, it is culturally a million miles from Chicago.

  17. 22

    Mathew "RennDawg" Renner spews:

    @7 well you are right about the fact that most graduates of the Bible Colleges I speak of do not go on to work at places like NASA or Boeing. They usuially become missionaries to places like Africa, South America, Mexico and other such places. We do have a Boeing engineer attending my church though. We also have an X-ray operator, an FAA investigator, and others with advanced degrees. These are not casual members but the core of the church. Yes Secular and non-seminary religious colleges are great for people seeking knowledge in the areas they teach. The Bible colleges I support are great at preparing people for the ministry. And since were talking about pushing things, how about I cannot go outside without having things I am not allowed to look at right in my face. I cannot look at a magazine at the store counter, billboards even some of the ads on the bus I ride. As long as I am forced to view the filth of the world I will push back with my faith.

    @8 you are right. People who graduate from Bible colleges, at least the ones I like, should go in to some kind of ministry work. That is what there for. To train students to become Pastors, preachers, missionaries and teachers. I am studing to be a teacher for a Baptist private school.

    @21 you are also right. I assumed (never assume) that Hammond was a suburb of Chicago. I am sorry. I thought that because Hyles/Anderson and First Baptist Church of Hammond did so much work in the Chicago inner city that they were a suburb. My mistake. My Pastor, who went to Hyles/Anderson, confirmed that for me. I guess calling Hammond a suburb of Chicago would almost be like calling Tacoma A suburb of Seattle.

  18. 23

    ArtFart spews:

    @22 One thing I’ve been told by more than one progressive activist is that Wheaton College is by far, bar none, the best school on the planet to attend if you’re seriously planning a career in politics.

  19. 24

    Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

    Golly Lee seems you are becoming a chronological idiot too…

    Dec 13th Joe Lieberman says Nope to Medicare change

    Tom Harkin says to reporters “If Senator Lieberman is the 60th vote, I guess we will have to do what Mister Lieberman wants.”

    Dec 14th Franken “tells” Thune to read the bill.

    Golly Lee, look like Puddy has the correct chronology.

    See ya

  20. 26

    Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:


    Working in Hammond Indiana back in 1976, those people think differently than you do. So does leftist WikiPedia. So does Associated Content… Seems the Lakeshore Chamber of Commerce disagrees too…

    Matthew always use leftist material like WikiPedia as much as possible to refute their commentary.

    So LauraMae, do you think people from Hammond think they are a suburb of Gary, Indiana?

  21. 27

    Mathew "RennDawg" Renner spews:

    I never used Wikipedia. I get most of my info on Hammond from people I know who used to live there.