Radio wrap-up

I’ll be on the Kirby Wilbur Show (KVI-570) at 8:30 am, wrapping up our election contest discussion. Say what you want about KVI (four-letter words are often aptly descriptive,) but both Kirby and John have been very gracious in inviting me to air my liberal perspective.

And while we’re on the subject of wrap-ups, Evergreen Politics reminds us that not only did Rossi lose, but that Christine Gregoire won. Lynn Allen has posted a brief interview with our duly elected Governor, in which she talks about her first five months in office, and her plans for the rest of her term.

UPDATE:
For those introduced in abusing me for an embarrassing slip of the tongue, here’s the audio from my somewhat jet-lagged appearance with Kirby this morning.

Comments

  1. 1

    herbalizer spews:

    I hope you blast those dumb fucks over at KVI. I haven’t got a chance to call in and tell them what fucking idiots they are.

  2. 2

    Chee spews:

    GOLDY. It is tough at the top of the ladder. TAKE A BOW. I hear there is a shortage of crying towels in Rossi’s camp.

  3. 6

    ControlFreak spews:

    Dear pbj:

    Please provde context. Otherwise, for the umpteenth time, look up “non sequitur” in the dictionary.

  4. 8

    Felix Fermin spews:

    Good lord, what is the point. The presidential election is over. Your guy won, or at least that is what was reported in the corporate-owned MSM. Your pre-occupation with Kerry, Clinton, Gore etc. despite the fact that your folks are now holding all the keys is weird. Shouldn’t you guys be governing or something rather than reliving old battles?

  5. 9

    David spews:

    Are you out of your mind, Felix? The less governing these Republicans do, the better. Let ‘em obsess.

  6. 11

    Chuck spews:

    After watching the democratic response on TV, your party reps have confirmed what I always suspected. The democratic party is basically made up of garbage. Whiney Paul had no call to bash Rossi at all. This assclown needs thrown out of public life!

  7. 13

    herbalizer spews:

    He wasn’t bashing Rossi at all. He was being nice in my opinion. He should have called him a worthless sack of shit.

    Now shut the fuck up and let the Dems run the government. Go back to fucking your farm animals and reading your bible. The dems are in charge in Washington and we don’t give a flying fuck what you stupid republifucks have to say about it.

  8. 15

    spews:

    Chuck @11:

    Whiney Paul had no call to bash Rossi at all. This assclown needs thrown out of public life!

    Payback bites, doesn’t?

    But that’s not my real reason for commenting. Chuck, did you grew up in Pittsburgh? Unless it’s a typo or garble, your last sentence suggests that you did.

  9. 16

    spews:

    Hey Goldy, who cares about you and Kirby Wilbur? You’re old news now.

    The more important question is whether you’ll be at DL tonight for a celebratory glass or three.

  10. 17

    Chuck spews:

    herbalizer@13
    Keep that thought, you are going to find out how popular you libs are in 2008, she will be thrown out of office. We are going to stuff that gas tax back up her ass as well.
    N in Seattle@15
    I believe my point was well made in the posting in question.

  11. 20

    David T. spews:

    Why do these people keep calling it a tax hike anyway? it’s a much-needed investment in our infrastructure, and if anything it more resembles a user fee on drivers. I trust that all those against this spending will never use the 520 bridge or the viaduct again.

    As for me, I’m glad it’s all over. Now it’s time to work on legalizing medical marijuana. I for one am quite confused that O’Connor, Thomas and Renquist were on the correct side for once, and can’t figure out how Scalia could be such a hypocrite.

  12. 21

    headless lucy spews:

    When you stuff the gas tax what will you do for adequate funds? Oh,yeah! We’ll give more tax breaks to the super rich, that’ll surely create more business and with more investment and (because they surely WILL invest it where it will do the state the most good) we’ll have more revenue and everything isOK! (Violins begin and the camera fades to a western sunset where the Gipper and John Wayne smile, wave a final goodbye and say: “See, the story always has a happy ending if you only have a little gumption!”)

  13. 22

    Chuck spews:

    David T@21
    You have a deal! Most of us dont use the 520 bridge, or the viaduct. If I need to use them you are free to charge me a real user tax in the form of a toll.

  14. 24

    Goldy spews:

    N @17,

    I just posted on it… I’ll be there tonight at Drinking Liberally. And while I am genuinely touched by all the kind words from my readers over the past couple days, I just want to remind everybody that nothing says “thank you” like a free beer.

    Hope to see you all there.

  15. 25

    headless lucy spews:

    Haven’t you heard that each Wal-Mart employee costs society $2,000 a year? I f a wage is below what is survivable and people are surviving, then society is once again paying for some business’ collateral damage. That more than eats up your “savings”.

  16. 26

    dj spews:

    N in Seattle @ 16,

    “But that’s not my real reason for commenting. Chuck, did you grew up in Pittsburgh? Unless it’s a typo or garble, your last sentence suggests that you did.”

    I recall someone else asking Chuck if he was from that area.
    (Google to the rescue.) Ahhh. . . it was Mrs. Cynical, here:

    http://www.horsesass.org/my-co.....ment-18284

    She pegged him on that same construct.

  17. 27

    Priscilla spews:

    Reply to 6

    Now we know the truth — Bush IS as dumb as right-wingers claim Kerry is!!!

  18. 28

    Priscilla spews:

    Cheesy Chuckie @ 18

    I have an idea, you and everybody else should be on the AWV when it collapses.

  19. 29

    Priscilla spews:

    Meant to say “everybody else who signs the gas tax repeal initiative” — my fingers just woke up. Have another cuppajava, fingers!!!

  20. 31

    Priscilla spews:

    More on 21

    I haven’t read the medical marijuana decision (too much local stuff going on yesterday) but keep in mind that SCOTUS judges the constitutionality of laws, not their wisdom.

  21. 33

    Priscilla spews:

    The reason, Chuckie, is because we’ve already lost enough family wage jobs and don’t need to lose any more.

  22. 34

    Priscilla spews:

    Goldy, next time you’re invited on Carlson, call him out on that bullshit he was spouting yesterday about Rossi and Gorton being robbed by illegal aliens voting, and his assertion that illegal alien voter registrations in an Arizona border county proves we have illegal aliens voting in Washington elections.

  23. 35

    wes.in.wa spews:

    Goldy, if you have to pay for a single beer tonight, I’m ashamed to be called a liberal. I won’t be there, but if y’ever hold a Tacoma extension DL event (Say, at the Engine House?) I’ll buy you one.

  24. 36

    dj spews:

    Priscilla,

    One more for your bumper sticker collection:

    “Proud widower of a Rossi voter”

  25. 38

    David T. spews:

    Well, Chuckie#23, not knowing you I suppose it’s possible to be somebody who never uses the roads, but you still have a choice not to pay the tax. Just don’t drive a car or don’t buy gasoline.

    I suspect, however, that the companies that you bring you food and everything else you need are using trucks that use the highways, so perhaps you are more dependent on the bridges and highways than you realize.

    As for me, enough of this nonsense. I have a Supreme Court that needs to be dealt with.

  26. 39

    spews:

    Yoi!

    A Turrble Taaal to Maarhn Cope for setting me straight about Chuck’s provenance. It was definitely a question that needed answered.

    Got any gumbands to go with that chip-chop?

  27. 40

    Glad you feel good about a still unknown result spews:

    Pisscilla – I responded to your “challenge” in the Breaking News thread…….post 236. I will save you the embarrassment and not post the response here as well.

  28. 41

    m. cope spews:

    N in Seattle @40
    Actually it was Mrs. Cynical that made that connection. She and the hubby must have spent some time dahn ahn the south side, an at.
    Wonder how the Allegheny elections office would have faired under such scrutiny? I’m guessing not too well.
    Go Stihlers!

  29. 42

    spews:

    Yeah, that must be it. I don’t think the Cynicals would be comfortable dahntahn.

    I’d forgotten about “an at”, just as I’d forgotten about “wicked” before I moved from The ‘Burgh to New Hampshire some years back. Man, what I wouldn’t give for a sammich from Primanti Bros, or a dog and small fries from the Dirty O.

  30. 43

    Rick Schaut spews:

    Glad @ 42

    Not that Priscilla really needed the help, but I’ve taken the liberty of disabusing you of your self deception in the immediate reply to your post. Sorry to embarass you, but you did bring it on yourself.

  31. 44

    Priscilla spews:

    Reply to 41

    To avoid redundancy, I refer you to #237 under the Breaking News thread, where Rick Schnaut replies as succinctly has I could.

    BTW I don’t know what “challenge” you’re talking about. I didn’t “challenge” you, I simply stated a fact, namely that you’re a racist pig. Actually, I don’t remember exactly what I posted. I might have forgotten to put in the “pig” part.

  32. 45

    Dr. E spews:

    PBJ @ 6 — What’s your point?

    My non-sequitur, in rebuttal, would be this:
    NOT-SO-BREAKNIG NEWS: BUSH WAS A BAD STUDENT
    Interview with Yoshi Tsurumi, Bush’s professor from Harvard Business School.

    S [Sam Seder]: Now let me ask you this, I know you told us before, but I’d like you to say again. Now how is it that you remember that you had George Bush? I mean you must have had hundreds of thousands of, probably thousands of students in your career.

    T [Yoshi Tsurumi]: Yes. In thirty years you always remember the two kinds of students. One is really good. The other is a George Bush kind. Terrible. Intellectually very shallow. But more importantly immature, but lacking the sense of responsibility, compassion, always indulging in denials when he is called on in his lies. And lies came very easily to him.

    Link:
    http://s88172659.onlinehome.us.....bushs.html

    Tsurumi has been interviewed many times on this topic in the recent past, including most recently on Air America’s program Ring of Fire, where he called Bush a “pathological liar”. (http://www.ringoffireradio.com/show.asp?jid=65)

    If the MSM is more your taste, try CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOL.....professor/

    Are we really surprised?

  33. 46

    Erik spews:

    I’ll be on the Kirby Wilbur Show (KVI-570) at 8:30 am, wrapping up our election contest discussion. Say what you want about KVI

    Kirby seems to like the result and now ever Gregoire some. I guess you converted him.

  34. 47

    Erik spews:

    For those introduced in abusing me for an embarrassing slip of the tongue, here’s the audio from my somewhat jet-lagged appearance with Kirby this morning.

    Nice. Listened to it all. I see they invited you and not Stefan. And to think he tried to keep you off the air.

  35. 48

    Glad you feel good about a still unknown result spews:

    Pisscilla – You wrote….

    In your defense, you claim that your disparaging slam on Mexicans “states a fact.” I’m quite skeptical that it’s a “fact” that Mexican President Fox has written ANY of our school curriculum, but in the interest of fair play, I’m offering you the opportunity to post your evidence that Mexican President Fox has written any of our school curriculum.

    I await your reply, racist pig.

    I responded………(with evidence to support my position)

    PISScilla –

    First off, your a f’ing idiot. How you get racism out of my statement is amazing.

    Pull your head out of your ass and read the following, which supports my statement and shows you to be an idiot, for jumping onto the racism bandwagon you stupid fuck.

    http://access.wa.gov/news/2005....._7582.aspx

    Gov. Gregoire, schools superintendent join president of Mexico in launching online-learning program
    OLYMPIA – Gov. Christine Gregoire and Terry Bergeson, state superintendent of public instruction, yesterday joined Mexico’s President Vicente Fox and others in launching a web site and online resources that will allow 55,000 Latino students in Washington to take school classes online in Spanish.

    The curriculum, which will include basic literacy and high-school-level subject matter that can apply toward graduation, has been produced in Spanish by the government of Mexico.

    You think you are so smart but you’re a dumbshit.

    Comment by Glad you feel good about a still unknown result— 6/7/05 @ 3:23 pm

    You then praise Rick for his lack luster piece of shit rebuttal on yout behalf, to which I responed as follows….

    Dipshit@237

    Listen asswipe…. Fuck you. We are in America not Mexico or any other fucking country. Our school curriculum should be in ENGLISH not another language. It should be written by our government not anyone else’s, let alone Mexico. It does not make you a racist to criticize a countries education system. Would you send your kids to Mexico for their schooling? They can’t get their shit together and you’re ok with them writing our curriculum in their language. Do we have a French curriculum for the French speaking? The Japanese? The German? The Chinese? No they learn in our language with our established curriculum. Fuck making a special curriculum, what a waste of money and effort and it accomplishing nothing to better OUR society. You politically correct dipshits are afraid to stand up and say anything is wrong out of fear of being viewed racist or intolerant, except when it comes to attacking conservatives or Christianity or America. This program is wrong and believing so has nothing to do with racism, its common sense. I would not expect an English curriculum if I moved to a foreign country. I would expect that I would have to learn their language and that is what I would do. Why don’t we just print every public document in 1000 languages so as to not offend anyone? And come up with special education and social programs for all the different immigrant nationalities we have in America. Wouldn’t that be the right thing to do? Most immigrants to this country welcome learning our language and blending into our culture and don’t expect special treatment when they get here. They just want to be treated like the rest of America.

    Comment by Glad you feel good about a still unknown result— 6/7/05 @ 7:45 pm

    Now that your all caught up and although you’ll deny it and make excuses, you have been exposed as a stupid bitch.

  36. 49

    David spews:

    unknown @ 49 writes: “Fuck making a special curriculum, what a waste of money and effort and it accomplishing nothing to better OUR society.

    Yeah, people are supposed to PAY for special curricula—that’s why we send all OUR kids to private schools. Immigrants aren’t entitled to that shit. They’re not part of “OUR society.”

    </sarcasm>

  37. 50

    Rick Schaut spews:

    Glad @ 49

    There’s nothing wrong with criticizing another country’s educational system so long as your criticism is based on the merits of that system. Until I’d pointed this out, your criticism was based solely on the fact that it came from Mexicans. You’ve now, ever so slightly, modified that criticism to be in terms of language, but, for the life of me, I don’t see how an educational program written in the language of the people it’s designed to educate is a bad idea. It certainly doesn’t preclude their ability to learn English as well, and the program you’re criticizing doesn’t require English-speaking students to learn Spanish. I still don’t get what your gripe is.

    As for sending my children to Mexico, were there decent enough schools there, I’d seriously consider it for at least a year. Not only would they have an opportunity to continue their education within a reasonably comparable curriculum, they would also have an opportunity to experience a very different culture from ours. I fail to see how that can have anything but a positive benefit on their future lives.

    As it is, I do plan to send them to an international school in Canada, and precisely because this particular school accepts students from around the world.

    Also, for what it’s worth, if we had the resources and there was a sufficient number of people who would benefit from the program, I wouldn’t be adverse to having similar programs for children who don’t yet speak English well enough to participate fully in our standard curricula regardless of the native tongue. That shouldn’t mean that doing so one step at a time is a bad idea.

    So, no, I don’t think you’ve sufficiently rehabilitated the racism of your argument. If anything, you’ve only served, particularly with your use of terms like “asswipe,” served to draw an even starker contrast between what you’ve said and the kind of discourse we should be conducting despite our differences in views. Not that I actually take offense, mind you. I’m a Microsoft employee who makes software for Apple’s Macintosh. There isn’t anything you can say to or about me that’s anywhere near as offensive as things various Macintosh advocates have said to or about me.

    Lastlly, were it not for the fact that you’ve made allegations about other people’s stupidity, I wouldn’t point this out. However, since you have made such allegations, I suggest you learn about the concept of a paragraph, learn the difference between the plural form and the possessive form of nouns that end in the letter “y,” and the difference between the possessive “your” and the contraction “you’re.”

  38. 52

    Puddybud spews:

    When my sister lived in Paris for 4 years with her family, she had her children learn French. Now my niece speaks French and German as a native. My nephew sucks at both languages. I do not support my tax dollars being used to keep people speaking a non-native language in another country. When I spent time in Europe, I had to try to speak the language and the natives then spoke English to me after laughing when I said things in German like Schiess Strasse (Shiis Street (Shit)) when I meant to say (Shees Street). We all laughed and they spoke their broken English to me. If you don’t totally immerse your children into the culture you all are now living in, you short circuit your child’s chance to move forward.

    Does anyone know of any studies where they looked at parents who forced their children to learn English, vs. those who chose not to? I would think those who immerse would perform better.

    So Priscilla, why is it that Indians and Asians who come over do better, like win the National Spelling be spelling English words? Why do they become valedictorians of their classes? Can you explain that one? Please show me the last hispanic who was in this position in their class without language and culture immersion?

    I read your accusation and I wondered if you paid attention to the governor and head of education announcement. I would suggest that you read before accusing. You claim to be a solicitor, esquirette, lawyer, barrister, etc. Do you use your assistants to perform your research? I am sure many HA people at the next DL event will give you Internet search training. Wasn’t it you who suggested that the wascally Republicans were Dixiecrats, converted Democrats? Not true and didn’t I explode that one in your face?

    I learned from David and DJ to make sure that I know my facts from folklore. So when I mentioned the Singapore hangings I had much ammunition ready to fire. When headless said the opium production in Afghanistan was higher now than under the Taliban, I used the left’s favorite organization the UN to blow apart her argument. Under the Taliban, the opium production was and still is the world record. But then headless blogs on the taxpayers dime so I always look forward to researching her diatribes and rants ready to blow them out of the water.

    Pudster

  39. 55

    Priscilla spews:

    Comment on 249

    “We are in America not Mexico or any other fucking country. Our school curriculum should be in ENGLISH not another language.”

    Just as I thought — you’re a racist pig.

  40. 56

    Priscilla spews:

    Comment on 251

    The idea behind this English-only movement is to keep “those” kids out of our schools. If they can’t understand what the teacher is saying, they won’t attend, right? We wouldn’t want OUR kids to get confused by being around kids who talk funny, come from a strange culture, and have THAT skin color, would we.

  41. 58

    Priscilla spews:

    Reply to 253

    Listen asshole, my great-grandfather spoke German and little or no English, and it took two generations before anyone in my family left the farm and got a city job, three generations before any got a college degree, four generations before any got a law degree or Ph.D. — these things take time — but they were ALL Americans, get it? No, you don’t get it.

    A tourist trying to speak pidgin German or French is not the same thing as an immigrant kid trying to learn reading, writing, ‘rithmetic, and a new language and culture too. The U.S.-born children of Spanish-speaking field workers have a right to a U.S. education because they are U.S. citizens, and they need to learn the three R’s now, not after the years it takes to learn a new language and culture have gone by, you racist pig.

  42. 59

    all-righty-then spews:

    @ 1….HEY HERBALIZER…YOU HAD TIME TO BE A COWARD WITH A FEW WORDS OF NO MEANING POSTED HERE, BUT NO TIME TO CALL UP KVI? ANOTHER LIB PHONEY FROM THE PARTY OF LOVE, TOLERANCE, AND ALL INCLUSIVE?…

  43. 60

    Puddybud spews:

    Priscilla: You love to throw out epithets don’t you? You can’t have a discussion without demeaning your opponent. Well when part of my family emigrated from Greece, they could not speak de English. But the parents told my grandfather to learn English. Greek was only spoken at home. My wife’s family when the immigrated could not speak English. But they told my wife’s grandparents to learn English. What part of that is racist. You think you moving to Mexico and taking your grandchildren (you said you have been a solicitor for 30 years in another thread) with you is going to get you English books. Hell no. Who the hell said that US born children don’t have the right to a US education? I didn’t say that. You are changing the subject. I said I do not support my tax dollars being used to keep people speaking a non-native language in another country.

    You never answered my questions about Asians and Indians who immerse their children into another language do just fine and succeed? That’s because your argument is specious and very empty, devoid of cogent thought! What was the nationality of the Spelling Bee winner, Hispanic? Nope! Since you are a lawyer, you have access to information I would not have. Do some research on how many hispanics have been #1 in their class and they don’t speak English. But you in your infinite wisdom say let’s teach them in their own language. I disagree and I am called a racist. Be very careful who you call a racist. You of all people should know, as your own actions prove racism. Keep them in their own culture so they fail once they get out of school. Will they be speaking English? Isn’t that racism? Hmmm…? You know what some Asians who I used to work with who are in English as second language classes told me:”Our children only speak our language at home.”

    I disagree with gay marriage and I am a homophobe? I could care less if they live together, do what they do behind closed doors, but marriage is between a man and woman!

    Pudster

  44. 61

    Glad you feel good about a still unknown result spews:

    Pudster,

    Thanks for your efforts in dealing with Priscilla. She is quick to call us “racists pigs”, when our position is not one that the race of the person matters. I would feel the same if this curriculum was written by any country other then America.

    What she misses is that in America the public school curriculum is written by people of various nationalities, whose families emigrated from many countries. But they are American citizens writing an American curriculum, in the English language. For her “Racist” argument to hold water we would have to be complaining that “Non-Whites” write our curriculum, which is clearly not our complaint. She also refuses to see the racism in her position. She does not think Mexican immigrants are smart enough to learn in English, they need special help. According to her position they must be mentally deficient, or she would be pushing for us to do the same for Chinese, Japanese, French, etc….You get the idea, but she surely won’t.

  45. 62

    Puddybud spews:

    Glad you feel good about a still unknown result: I understand Priscilla’s desire to help her common man. Unfortunately if you disagree with her help method, so you are the racist. They love to demean us with racial names and epithets and say we are mean spirited. I have never been mean-spirited, except as a response to mean-spirited people on the left. That conversational method is the only one most HA people understand. If I were a racist, I would not be willing to help anyone by charity or other means, and I would keep my hands in my pockets.

    I know Jose&Hose’B’ was being funny, but that’s the argument against Barbara Streisand and other Hollyweirdos. They underpay their illegal alien help under the table and then they trumpet how good they feel. Ha!

    Priscilla: I will agree with you when Vicente Fox and his government stops the illegal immigration into our country from his. I’ll even consider agreeing when he ships the Denver cop killer back to Colorado. He has thousands of military troops on his southern border with Guatemala to stop illegal immegration into Mexico. Since he’ll never do either, I will not have to agree with you!

    Pudster

  46. 63

    Puddybud spews:

    Wow, I haven’t seen a headless comment all during the day. Maybe she is beginning to be a respectable school employee, just as the school year ends.

    Pudster

  47. 64

    Rick Schaut spews:

    Puddy,

    “You never answered my questions about Asians and Indians who immerse their children into another language do just fine and succeed? That’s because your argument is specious and very empty, devoid of cogent thought!”

    Not speaking for Priscilla, I would say that the question doesn’t merit an answer because it’s irrelevant to the question of whether or not a suplimentary program in Spanish would be beneficial to hispanics. It’s rather difficult to base any form of cogent argument against such specialized, subsidiary programs using nothing more than differences in academic achievement among members of different racial groups.

    Moreover, the question is clearly rhetorical. You don’t know the answer to that question any better than the rest of us do. Indeed, social scientists have struggled to explain it in detail for quite some time. You can find quite a few studies on the subject here.

    One of the more interesting ideas is that all cultures have some perceived value for academic achievement, but that different minorities differ in terms of relative optimism and/or pessimism regarding their ability to use the results of their education later in life. Unfortunately, this is a factor that’s exceedingly difficult to isolate within a minority group, as it’s affected by both real and perceived instances of institutional racism–a vicious cycle as it were.

    For myself, I’d also like to see a study that attempts to isolate the extent to which financial success informs the concept of success in the various cultural groups. I rather strongly suspect that materialistic values play no small part in all of this, though I will readilly admit to having no expertise in the subject. That’s generally why I tend to defer to the opinions of establish experts.

    But, this is a digression. I’d really like to see you put together a cogent argument against subsidiary programs specifically designed to assist groups with the lowest levels of academic achievement by merely observing the fact that there are differences in levels of academic achievement. Indeed, were there no differences in levels of academic achievement, such subsidiary programs would be entirely superfluous.

    If you want to argue against subsidiary programs such as the one Glad has villified, you have to show that they don’t assist the groups they’re designed to assist. You’d have a hard time doing that with a program that was put in place only last May. Thus, there really is no other way to categorize your argument other than that it is fundamentally racist in nature.

    Glad,

    You can keep dancing, but that doesn’t change the fact that your original objection to the program had nothing to do with the merits of the program. You’ve still only vaguely hinted at the merits of the program itself, but I rather doubt that your credentials for evaluating the efficacy of the program are any better than mine.

  48. 65

    Glad you feel good about a still unknown result spews:

    Rcik –

    You just don’t get it do you. I don’t care about the merits of the program. That is my point, there should be no place in our system for curriculum written by another country in a foriegn language. That is what is wrong with this, not the “substance” or “merits” (or lack there of) within the curriculum itself.

    I am sure you’re all against outsourcing, except when it comes to our school curriculum. Can we not come up with our own curriculum that exceeds this one and it’s perceived merits? And have it in our langauge?

    I don’t care if every part of the public school curriculum is written by Hispanics (Mexicans) as long as they are American citizens, it is written in English and is of a high standard.

  49. 66

    Puddybud spews:

    Rick, glad you decided to come to Priscilla’s rescue. How is fact rhetoric? Priscilla threw out the racism charge. I know from my personal experience that what she says is total hogwash.

    You said: “For myself, I’d also like to see a study that attempts to isolate the extent to which financial success informs the concept of success in the various cultural groups. I rather strongly suspect that materialistic values play no small part in all of this, though I will readilly admit to having no expertise in the subject. That’s generally why I tend to defer to the opinions of establish experts.” Is Priscilla an expert? She said her family came from a non-English background. So did mine. My great-grandfathers believed in immersion.

    The ones who perform at superior levels come from Asia, because they immerse their children into the American culture. They have no language materials to have them learn from. How do they do that. Strong family support. So again I ask why is that? Strong work ethic.

    Your comments about certain minorities doing better than others is strange. Blacks in the inner city have to deal with being called an “uncle tom” or “sell out” for working hard in school, staying away from drugs or getting them “hos” pregnant. My best friend Reggie left our university because he got his woman pregnant. The look in his face was sad.

    Hispanics in the barrio face similar issues. They are pressured to join gangs. If not, then they are always looking over their shoulder.

    Let’s talk about Hispanic racism. How about Judge Miguel Estrada, who Chucky Schumer said would never be approved because he was hispanic. Republican Congressman Herman Badillo: “Nothing makes Democrats more flustered than when a Hispanic or African-American goes off their reservation. Democrats seem intent on corralling the nation’s two largest minority groups into an intellectual ghetto.”

    Want to read some more democratic racism: http://www.cnsnews.com/pdf/2004/democratsmemos.pdf The leaked Judiciary memos that the democrats when ballistic over because it exposed their hatred of “off the reservation types” nominated by GWB. More minorities in the highest places of government than any other president in history!

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....Found=true: “He is not a real Hispanic and, by the way, he was nominated only because he is Hispanic — two arguments as repugnant as they are incoherent. Underlying it all is the fact that Democrats don’t want to put a conservative on the court.” He didn’t know a lick of English when he came here, Yet, he want to Harvard.

    I am no social scientist nor do I want to be one. You don’t know my makeup yet you throw around the racial label so strongly because I don’t ascribe to your argument. Your side controls the inner cities and they have to worst record of school testing scores and graudate levels. Your side controls the all the institutions here. We see that in King County very clearly. You want me to perform a study on something I have no way of even starting.

    I don’t agree with this handout on teaching people in their native language in the US. How that is racist is beyond me except it doesn’t meet the criteria of your small intellectual prison (A dj quote) and I am not a racist. All they need to do is immerse their children into the environment and with all of the other handout programs we have in this state (lefties control all state institutions) they can succeed. Stop calling me a racist because I don’t agree with you. Name calling your opponents does nothing for the argument except prove that you are assinine!

    Pudster

  50. 67

    Rick Schaut spews:

    Glad @ 67,

    I fully comprehend your point, though I fear you’ve failed to aprehend mind. It is precisely the fact that you don’t care about the merits of this program that renders your argument racist. I don’t know how to be more plain than that.

    Moreover, I simply don’t believe your claim that your stance is based solely on national borders. I believe that you’d jump at adopting an educational program from Canada if students in Canada were achieving higher levels of academic success. To think otherwise is beyond idiotic. It’s pure bigotry.

    Puddy @ 68,

    Fact becomes empty rhetoric when it’s irrelevant to the discussion. I can say, “The grass is green.” It’s an objectively verifiable fact, but it has absolutely no relevance to a discussion about the color of the sky.

    Bringing up irrelevant facts is an intellectually dishonest rhetorical device. Its sole purpose is to direct attention away from the advocate’s inability to address the issues being discussed. It’s a rhetorical device I’ve seen you use rather often.

    Regarding Prescilla’s expertise in the matter, I rather expect she has none. Her expertise is irrelevant, since she played no role in the development of the program at hand. Why did you bring it up? To deflect attention away from your own lack of expertise. The only relevant fact would be the expertise of the people designing the program, and that’s rather well established.

    Regarding “immersion” as you put it, you might just want to consider the fact that Asians have tended to not totally immerse themselves in American culture. They’ve retained a good number of cultural values that are not all that prominent in American culture.

    Nevertheless, the fact that your grandparents believed in “immersion” is irrelevant. Whether or not it actually results in increased academic achievement is an issue that is the substance of much debate within the field of sociology. Did you read any of the documents on the web site to which I posted a link?

    As for various allegations of racism on the part of people who are not participating in this discussion, I have no interest in discussing their racism whatsoever. They aren’t here wearing it on their sleaves like badges of courage. Their racism is irrelevant to this discussion, unless, of course, your sole argument is to justify your own racism on the sole basis that other people are racists.

    To both of you, this is a freeking web site! It’s not a substitute program, it’s not a completely different curriculum. It’s a program designed to supplement the existing curriculum. Nothing in this program relieves hispanics from having to pass the WASL, and to pass it in English. That you would even contemplate villifying this program, or Democrats for having put it in place, is so beyond the pale of acceptable conduct that words fail to adequately convey my disgust with both of you. You, my friends, deserve every word of villification Priscilla has thrown in your direction.

    People thinking the way you do is what keeps this country down. People thinking the way you do is why I fully intend to allow my children to finish out their high-school educations in Canada. No, you’re not carrying swasticas and hurling racial epithets at people whose skin color is different from yours, but your racism is no less repugnant. In fact, it’s more so, because it’s accompanied by the grossly self-deceptive belief that you are not racist.

    Wake up, folks.

  51. 68

    Puddybud spews:

    Rick, I am sick and tired of people like you. You have two charges for people who don’t agree with you. Either we are racists or homophobes. You pretend social engineers just love to make the world a “better place”, a “feel good” experience.. Why am I a racist to not agree with this program?

    How dare you claim I was changing the conversation? I suggest that you reread Priscillas previous post and correlate her words to my responses. I tried to parallel her paragraphs with answers and you said I changed the topic through deflection. She called me a racist. She can’t deal with people who disagree with her. She must be a “great” lawyer who has to punch the wall or kick the dog or slap the hubby when the prosecution pokes holes in her case! I would not want her pleading my case. Where did I say I was an expert? Au contraire, I said the opposite!

    Dammit, You are just like the GLA. I don’t like spending my tax dollars this way. Why can’t you accept that? I don’t like how Gregoire got to be governor. I accept the judge’s decision. If I disagree with a program that spends my tax dollars because it makes you feel good, I am a racist? I stated my position, and you just don’t like it, so in your puny mind I am a racist. Do not equate me with Jim “Bull” Conner. Do not equate me with Robert “KKK – Sheets” Byrd. Do not equate me with George Wallace. Do not equate me with Hiram W. Evans, the first grand wizard of the KKK. DO not equate me with Robert Chambliss, a member of the Ku Klux Klan, the man who placed the bomb under the steps of the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church. Those are racists. Also I ain’t like John Kerry or Howard Dean, who claim to be for black and hispanic people but destroy Miguel Estrada, Janice Rogers Brown, Colin Powell, Condi Rice all because they are not part of the reservation. Do you agree with Miguel, Condi, Colin or Janice? No, well then you is a racist Rick Schault!!! See how easy it is to throw around a worn term that has little meaning now that your side overuses it for frivilous arguments?

    But wait, how many people in high places did Dean and Kerry have in their campaigns? I can count them on my index finger curled around to my thumb!!! Damn, dey must be racists too!!!

    Rick, a history lesson for you; Radical Republicans in Congress such as Benjamin Butler urged President Ulysses S. Grant to take action against the Ku Klux Klan. Another history lesson for you Frederick Douglass, the great black leader, was a Republican.

    Rick, I admitted I am not a social scientist. Rick, please move to another country, let’s say Italy, and demand that your children be taught in English. You would be laughed out of the meeting. Rick, why does the US have to be the multicultural society? You just don’t get it do you. Where will our culture , borders, and society go if we don’t continue to promote it? If everything I teach has to be translated into multiple languages for American consumption, where is the efficiency?

    Rick, I know what real racism is. Seen it, lived it, and experienced it. How dare you bring up the swastika on me? You are disgusted with me? Is that your fall back position? The mere mention of the swastika proves to me that my disdain for the likes of you is proof positive of my position! Is that your favorite moniker? I abhore that symbol. I detest that symbol. I hope all HA people detest that symbol. Hitler was a racist and the Nazi Party was homophobic. Hitler hated blacks like Jesse Owens (’36 Olympics)and we know all about his Jewish hatred.

    So when you and Priscilla decide to get off of you high and mighty stilts and talk like a civilized human being, I will maybe consider a blog conversation with you. I can disagree with many things others say without calling them racists. Why can’t you?

    Schault – is that Austrian heritage? You see part of my family is German. My German is rusty but: Rick, schlage ich vor, daß Sie es aufgeben und aufhören, einen Rassisten eine Person zu nennen. For the rest of you: I suggested to Rick that he should give it up and stop calling a person a racist.

    Pudster

  52. 69

    Puddybud spews:

    Rick my response to your rant is being checked by Goldy’s bloggerator approver!! You’ll see it appear above.

    But one last thought? Since it’s a “freaking” web site, what about those who don’t have a computer? Are you as an employee Microsoft going to provide them? You see, I have heard of you through some Office research on the web. You have a blog at Microsoft.

    Pudster

  53. 70

    Rick Schaut spews:

    Puddy,

    I’m glad you found my blog. And, as an employee of Microsoft, I’ve donated time, funds and software to various school districts. All three are figured into our regular family budget, so the donations are ongoing. Indeed, donating software to school districts is a win-win situation, because the tax law allows me to deduct the retail value of that software, not what I paid for it.

    That said, individuals don’t need access to the web site in order to benefit from it. Teachers can pull down materials for the benefit of specific students. The web site is primarily a resource for educators, though students can find value there as well. Did you not read the press release to which Glad posted a link in the other thread?

  54. 71

    Glad you feel good about a still unknown result spews:

    Rick,

    You have a very hard time listening. I would not accept a curriculum from Canada any sooner then from Mexico. Again, I don’t care what country it comes from, if it is not from ours I don’t want to use it, especially when it is in a different language. And more to the point, why would we (Washington State) partner with a worthless leader like Fox and add credibility to his existence? He does not give a shit about our country or our state. His only concern is what is in his best interests, and having developed a school curriculum for use in our state is for his purposes and benefit, not ours. He isn’t doing us any favors; if he was he could start by stopping all the illegal immigrants, which he encourages to come here, from coming here.

    As far a Canada is concerned, I am surprised you have not considered moving there. If it is good enough for the schooling of your kids why not move across the border. Your not one of those love Canada, hate America people are you? Canada does have a style of government that you would clearly embrace. I would say it but I am afraid my post will be blocked for using the big bad “S’ word.

    I bet you hate the fact that a company like Dell would even consider outsourcing Technical Support jobs to India or Pakistan. Or even your own Microsoft, looking to a foreign country for Software Developers. But you have no problem encouraging the outsourcing of the responsibilities of this state to foreign Governments. If I wanted Mexico or any other country involved in my child’s public education I would send him to school there. But I don’t, so I don’t.

    If it makes you feel better to call me a racist, even though my feeling on the issue is not in the slightest race related, feel free, you just look like an ass by doing so. Remember my issue is not the race of those that right our school curriculum. The issue is that our curriculum should be written in this country, by Americans of any race.