Yesterday there was this NY Times poll, of 984 adults, taken 24 to 27 Feb (3% margin of error):
Americans oppose weakening the bargaining rights of public employee unions by a margin of nearly two to one: 60 percent to 33 percent. While a slim majority of Republicans favored taking away some bargaining rights, they were outnumbered by large majorities of Democrats and independents who said they opposed weakening them.
[…]The poll found that an overwhelming 71 percent of Democrats opposed weakening collective bargaining rights. But there was also strong opposition from independents: 62 percent of them said they opposed taking bargaining rights away from public employee unions.
[…]The one group that favors weakening those rights, by a slim majority, was Republicans.
And today, a similar poll from the Wall Street Journal and NBC is about to be released. This poll sampled 1,000 adults (3.1% margin of error). From the preliminary WSJ write-up:
Eliminating collective bargaining rights for public-sector workers over health care, pensions or other benefits would be either “mostly unacceptable” or “totally unacceptable,” 62% of those surveyed said. Only 33% support such limits.
The results don’t bode well for Wisconsin’s newly elected Republican governor, Scott Walker, who is locked in a standoff with statehouse Democrats and unionized state workers over these rights.
[…]Similarly, 77%…think unionized state and municipal employees should have the same rights as those union members who work for private companies.
You know, I seriously doubt the same poll taken six months ago would have come out anywhere near this pro-Labor. Gov. Walker’s extreme, and ham-handed politics, with a helping hand from New Jersey, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, etc. has been a big awakening for America’s inner progressive.
The question is does Walker do more damage by compromise, or by standing firm on stripping public employees of their collective bargaining rights?
Either way…Walker’s and the right wing extremist’s War on Workers has sustained a huge blow.
Ohio had to get rid of two union supporting REPUBLICAN State Senators to pass Kasich’s union busting legislation today 17-16. There are no depths they will not sink to…no lengths the Republican Party will not go to…to destroy the middle-class, the working class of this country.
The war is on. Please do not think this cannot happen in the State of Washington…just let McKenna start to smell the Governor’s Mansion and we’re in a world of shit.
Gee, just as you were posting this, I was finishing a post on another thread citing the same poll numbers.
Republican strategy has always been to say anything necessary to get into office, then hit fast and hard with the tax breaks to their wealthy buddies, and spend the next four years blaming the Democrats for not coming up with a budget solution to pay for it. Walker might have gotten away with it, except that he went for the whole package of trying to bust the public employee unions. Technolgy gets the word out pretty quickly these days, so it’s not quite the same playing field it was during the Reagan administration.
“Technolgy gets the word out pretty quickly these days”
Perhaps not for long. It’s no coincidence that there’s been a bunch of noise from the Washington with all the white buildings and stuffed shirts about making official an “Internet kill switch” on the heels of determined protesters bringing down Mubarak and threatening to do so to several other authoritarian regimes.
Ever heard the term “at will employment?” It means you can quit whenever you like or you can be fired at any timefor any or no reason. When public employees have “at will employment” contracts, then I’ll be OK with them having collective bargaining rights and union representation.
i am a proud member of several unions….Teamsters, SAG, DGA, WGA and a former member of UAW and HERE.
i sent my 20 bucks for pizza for my brothers and sisters in Madtown and urge you to do the same….
http://www.ianspizza.com/
they are still at the capitol and need to eat too…help out you fools!!!!
The wingnuts that compose today’s GOP are so out-of-touch with average Americans that they read November’s election as a mandate to go back 80 years in time. They are overplaying what was really a very weak hand to begin with.
# 4: Don’t be an idiot. “At will” employment would allow employers to simply fire any pro-union employees and thereby keep a union out of the plant. No union, no collective bargaining.
Of course, that’s your whole point, isn’t it?
and if you feel pizza is not the proper choice for food here is another site to help.
http://www.defendwisconsin.org.....-supplies/
@4 Fuck you, asshole. Public employment isn’t a private business the boss can run as he pleases. We’re all entitled to a say in how we want our government run, and we run government on the majority rule principle in this country. If the people want the workers who provide them with public services to have bargaining rights then that’s the way it is.
There are plenty of good reasons why public servants aren’t “at will” employees. Preventing corruption by elected officials (read: Republicans) is one of them. Btw, even if collective bargaining rights are stripped that doesn’t make public workers “at will” employees. They’d still have civil service protections.
You are an idiot.
@5 Uh, that doesn’t seem to work, is there a fundraising link for helping out the Madison protesters?
I read a magazine article, not sure which magazine because I’ve perused a lot of them this week, that said Walker has succeeded in uniting the fractured union movement — which may be instrumental in reelecting Obama in 2012.
Unions are closing ranks behind Wisconsin’s public workers. And fired up union supporters are more likely to turn out in elections. Walker may be the best friend Democrats have right now.
@4 “Ever heard the term “at will employment?””
Sure. Have you ever heard of “just cause”? Just what problem do you have with that?
An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll shows an equal number — 60 percent — are concerned about the impact GOP budget cuts will have on their lives and adamantly oppose cuts to Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, or K-12 education.
The poll shows only core Republican groups and tea partiers support deep spending cuts, which do not have the backing of key swing groups.
“Republican pollster Bill McInturff … says these results are a “cautionary sign” for a Republican Party pursuing deep budget cuts.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41876558/ns/politics/
The Army today filed additional charges against Pfc. Bradley Manning, accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks, that could bring Manning the death penalty.
(Source: MSNBC)
5
Rather than making union members subject to at-will employment, the more just move would to get rid of the at-will doctrine for everyone. The doctrine is a relic of deluded notions (first appearing in case law in the 1850s) about labor and management being on a par when it comes to power in the workplace. The thought was that if a worker can leave at any time, then an employer should be able to terminate at any time, with or without cause, and even for bad cause. In reality, the at-will doctrine leaves employees at the whim of employers. An arbitrary termination impacts the employee a great deal more than an arbitrary resignation impacts an employer. A good cause standard (at least for employers of a certain size) would provide for a much more fair workplace.
One advantage of a “just cause” protection in a union contract is that it prevents lower-level managers from trying to make an impression with their bosses by increasing production by skirting safety and quality controls. The Union workers can refuse, point to the rule book, and insist that the job be done correctly. This happens more time than I care to recount. But here in a region with airplanes built by union workers, it makes me feel better when I fly that the workers have that protection.
I find it amusing that Unions so good at working the system to maximize wages and benefits for their members that they must be destroyed.
They are doing exactly what they are supposed to do in a capitalistic society.
Why are maximum profits for workers are bad, yet maximum profits for CEOs are good.
The Federal government has already taken away these rights, it should and will be done in all states. Government unions are the doomed, and are the basic reason the states are all broke today. Get rid of them, and start hiring contractors like all other businesses are doing these days, with ZERO benefits.
Unions are certainly the reason for Texas’ budget problems. Oh wait, their governmnet workers are not unionized.
Guess that talking point is BS
how many Americans realize that government employees are demanding rights that exist only in their progressive minds. They have been led to believe that their desires are rights, and that includes the right to have the government take someone else’s property and give it to them simply because they want it.
Id @ 19: “Get rid of them, and start hiring contractors like all other businesses are doing these days, with ZERO benefits.”
Yep, that worked out SO WELL for Boeing. Those non-union workers in South Carolina (working for Vought and Global Aeronatica) saved Boeing so much money! Besides, who needs workers that pay attention to such things as de-burring fastener holes, correctly sealing wing fuel tanks and horizontal stabilizers, etc., etc., etc.?
Assuming, of course, we choose to ignore the penalties or other concessions Boeing has had to pay to the airlines for the three-year delay in the 787 program. Or the three years of overtime (10 hour days, six or seven days a week) it’s had to pay union workers in Everett to FIX the problems that were caused by out-sourcing. Or the damage done to Boeing’s reputation by the continued delays (Airbus just made it’s first breach into the Japan market, selling A380’s to one low-cost carrier and A320’s to a another low-cost startup).
Or the parts warehouse/supplier, New Breed, which sometimes takes weeks to deliver a part to the factory even though it’s less than a mile away?
I guess the head of Boeing Commercial Airplane Group doesn’t know what he’s talking about when he says that they are never going to do it that way again?
What’s amazing to me is that idiots like Id carry their anti-union bias with them without understanding the first thing about the role of unions in the workplace, they just know the anti-union propoganda points which have been taught to them. Hint to Id: just about everything you believe is based on a false premise.
Unfortunately, when people like Id get into positions of responsibility, they can do real damage to whatever company or government employs them. Boeing would have been far better off if they had taken a less antagonistic attitude toward the Machinist’s union and garnered valuable input from them early in the 787 program, rather than dismissing it as mere “job protectionism”.
@ 22
Don’t pay any attention to the troll. He’s in 7th grade or something, and doesn’t know jack shit about jack shit. He’s even more infantile than Spudds.
What this nation really needs is better trolls. Maybe if they had a union they’d get better training.
News Item: Wisconsin Republican testifies under oath that sitting on a floor cross-legged, or playing bongo drums, is “abnormal” and “uncivil”.
Judge considers clearing Wis. capitol protesters
@19: Blaming unions for state budget woes is like blaming the foreign aid budget for the national deficit. It’s possible that it’s a (tiny) fractional piece of the problem, but placing the blame there ignores the major structural problem causing the negative impact.
Of course, uninformed and ignorant “conservatives” seem to think that foreign aid actually is causing the deficit too, so I guess you’re being intellectually consistent (albeit absolutely, completely, and irredeemably WRONG).
When public employees are subject to the at-will environment rules that many people in the private sector are subject to, then they can join unions and engage in collective bargaining.
rodent – no, F-U-C-K Y-O-U, ASSHOLE!!!!!