Police state

According to policy testimony, Dennis Kyne put up such a fight when he was arrested protesting the Republican National Convention last summer, that it took four police officers to drag him down the steps of the NY Public Library.

“We picked him up and we carried him while he squirmed and screamed,” the officer, Matthew Wohl, testified in December. “I had one of his legs because he was kicking and refusing to walk on his own.” […] But one day after Officer Wohl testified, and before the defense called a single witness, the prosecutor abruptly dropped all charges.

During a recess, the defense had brought new information to the prosecutor. A videotape shot by a documentary filmmaker showed Mr. Kyne agitated but plainly walking under his own power down the library steps, contradicting the vivid account of Officer Wohl, who was nowhere to be seen in the pictures. Nor was the officer seen taking part in the arrests of four other people at the library against whom he signed complaints.

(10 to 1 prosecutors don’t file perjury charges against Officer Wohl.)

The New York Times reports that video evidence from the proliferation of lightweight cameras in the hands of eyewitnesses have directly led to the dismissal of charges against 400 of the 1,806 people arrested that week. In fact, of the 1,670 cases that have run their full course, 91 percent have ended with charges dismissed or a not guilty verdict.

Among them was Alexander Dunlop, who said he was arrested while going to pick up sushi.

Last week, he discovered that there were two versions of the same police tape: the one that was to be used as evidence in his trial had been edited at two spots, removing images that showed Mr. Dunlop behaving peacefully. When a volunteer film archivist found a more complete version of the tape and gave it to Mr. Dunlop’s lawyer, prosecutors immediately dropped the charges and said that a technician had cut the material by mistake.

Technical error. Yeah, right.

What we saw in the streets of NYC during the GOP Convention were the birth pangs of a nascent police state. Hundreds of peaceful protesters and innocent bystanders were herded like sheep, arrested, jailed, falsely accused, and prosecuted… all for having the temerity of trying to disrupt a presidential photo-op with a display of their First Amendment rights.

Mayor Bloomberg and his police officials proudly point to the relative lack of physical violence in which they indiscriminately swept crowds off the streets… but when we allow the Constitution to be so casually bloodied, how long before real blood flows through the gutters?

Comments

  1. 2

    prr spews:

    I absolutely love New York.

    I really wish we had had some old fashioned New York cops in Seattle at the time of the WTO Riots.

    Whatever happened to this little weasesls “falling down” or “shot trying to escape”

  2. 3

    Dubyasux spews:

    chardonnay, apologist for torturers and civil rights violators, never loses sleep over sorting the guilty from the innocent.

  3. 4

    Dubyasux spews:

    I hope the innocents sue Bush, Bloomberg, the RNC, and NYC for assault, false arrest, civil rights violations, and defamation. The police state would disappear pretty fast if Republicans had to shell out several billion dollars in damages from their own pockets to those they wronged.

  4. 6

    Another TJ spews:

    sushi? LOL
    radical protesting makes one hungry.

    Have you seen the video? It’s posted on the NY Times site. Just follow the link. The guy was walking down the street with his bike and got arrested for it.

    Goldy, thanks for posting this. In the first two comments, we were able to get a glimse into the future that awaits us if people of goodwill continue to sit idly by.

    Oh give me a break.

    These same innocent scumbags we saw at the WTO in Seattle?

    Do people ever bother to read the articles Goldy links to?

  5. 7

    prr spews:

    TJ

    “Do people ever bother to read the articles Goldy links to?”

    Why would anyone boter doing that? Especially when linking to that left wing propoganda rag called the New York times

  6. 11

    Chuck spews:

    This reminds me of the guy that went to jail for saying “you suck” to Bill Clintons face…

  7. 12

    Diggindude spews:

    Ya, its just like that chuck.
    Its like that other stupi thing too, ya know, when that black criminal guy was resisting arrrest by bleeding? You know, the one they took turns beating and kicking?
    Rodney something…..
    Its a good thing we have such patriotic people in this country like, chuck,prr,char, ny cops, l.a. cops, that know when a person needs a beating, by the way he looks, or thinks.
    Especially by the way he thinks!
    I love it when they just sneak up on a guy, like that chinese guy at the white house yesterday.
    Then attack and beat him, while they high five all the way back to dunkin donuts.
    Great patriots.

  8. 14

    thehim spews:

    Sure it does.

    Isn’t the New York times the paper that makes up stories?

    No, you’re thinking of Washington Times. Actually, I’m not convinced you’re thinking at all.

    And by the way, at the WTO riots in Seattle in 1999, there were some people out there causing trouble. Unfortunately, they weren’t the actual protestors. They were self-described anarchists who basically were looking to make chaos. I was at 4th and Pine (coming back from work trying to find my bus) about 20 minutes before the tear gas went. The cops made a mistake in waiting too long to deal with the real troublemakers, and unfortunately took out their frustrations on people who were not the cause of any of the damage in the first place.

    I was lucky though. My friend’s co-worker walked out of her office and found out that she was in a “protected zone” and arrested. If you don’t think innocent people get trapped in these “dragnets”, you’re either woefully naive or lazily apathetic.

  9. 15

    Another TJ spews:

    I think the democrats were in the drivers seat in that state when the Rodney King beating happened…

    You think wrong.

  10. 16

    thehim spews:

    LOL but I have to ask what will the radical protesting left think about the queen of protesting hillary’s new family?

    Can someone please translate Retard into English so that someone can have a crack at this one?

  11. 19

    Diggindude spews:

    Charbabble, and chuckbabble,
    It all sounds like the same ol’ murdererted,onestitchkerry,boxer,hillary,we arent responsible bullshit to me.
    Its like listening to the local radio station, that only has 3 albums to play.

  12. 20

    prr spews:

    Diggindude @ 12

    Can I assume you are one of the liberals who feels that the prisons are just filled with innocent victims?

    Hey, I have to say, when it comes to protestors, I would not shed a tear if a few of these ended up dead from time to time.

    I have absolutely no mercy for anyone who takes a stance and then complain when the get arrested, or worse.

  13. 21

    Rex spews:

    I hate to devolve into the same gambits that the lefties employ but it would appear that this situation warrants.

    First of all, would it have been better to put the protesters in cages a la the Boston convention?

    Going further back…

    Wasn’t it the Clinton justice department that murdered 74 people (including 12 children) at Waco when they deployed tanks armed with CS gas aerosol nozzles and employed such progressive tactics as playing tapes of rabbits being slaughtered all night long in order to deprive their quarry of sleep?

    Didn’t the Clinton justice department deploy agents armed with fully automatic 9mm assault weapons to bring Elian Gonzalez into custody?

    Yeah, y’all’re right. We’re living in a police state. And it started with GWB.

  14. 23

    chardonnay spews:

    thehimgod @ 18
    The US Senator of NY, the famous radical.
    Hillary the protesing mamma. screaming….
    “we have a right to debate with this administration”
    How is she explaining her husbands new family to her protesting base?
    great article wasn’t it?

  15. 24

    thehim spews:

    I love the fact that it becomes somehow implied that Goldy complaining about behavior indicative of a police state means that Goldy doesn’t think that Bill Clinton or other Democrats would have ever crossed lines like that. Of course they did, and no one agrees that yelling “you suck” was an arrestable offense. Every leader goes too far towards an authoritarian bent. That’s human nature. The problem is when people are too blind to question it due to partisanship. That’s when it’s allowed to goes too far.

    As for the babbling buffoons on this site, the comparison I like to make is to those shoes they used to have in the 80s for little kids. They were red and yellow and actually had the words “left” and “right” written on them so that the slow kids could figure out which feet they went on. That’s what talk radio is for. It breaks down everything into neat little piles of “left” and “right” and lets the slow kids play politics too.

  16. 25

    prr spews:

    Thehim @ 14

    No, it was the NY times

    See attachhed:

    http://www2.cnn.com/2003/US/No.....s.resigns/

    As per the WTO riots, stop blaming the anarchists, you little shitheads got exactly what you deserved. Let me guess, you failed to see all the police in storm trooper gear, the Tear gas, the percussion grenades and were surprised by getting arrested?

    The sad thing is that we have a city who just has no balls and the ended up appeasing all you scumbags who were arrested.

  17. 26

    chardonnay spews:

    Rex @ 21
    don’t forget the other Janet Reno/Clinton murder of Randy Weavers wife in Idaho.
    That was GW’s fault as well.

  18. 27

    thehim spews:

    prr wrote:

    I have absolutely no mercy for anyone who takes a stance and then complain when the get arrested, or worse

    Rex wrote:

    Wasn’t it the Clinton justice department that murdered 74 people (including 12 children) at Waco when they deployed tanks armed with CS gas aerosol nozzles and employed such progressive tactics as playing tapes of rabbits being slaughtered all night long in order to deprive their quarry of sleep?

    Didn’t the Clinton justice department deploy agents armed with fully automatic 9mm assault weapons to bring Elian Gonzalez into custody?

    Prr, care to explain to Rex why he shouldn’t have mercy for these people?

  19. 28

    Rex spews:

    in all fairness, the Weaver family was attacked during the administration of George Bush the first. sorry to break rank but i gotta call it like it is.

  20. 29

    chardonnay spews:

    dj @ 22
    it’s never ending.
    And, politically, he was all of those things and none of them. -Boston Globe

  21. 30

    Diggindude spews:

    Hey, I have to say, when it comes to protestors, I would not shed a tear if a few of these ended up dead from time to time.

    I have absolutely no mercy for anyone who takes a stance and then complain when the get arrested, or worse.

    Comment by prr

    What type of protesters?
    Like the ones outside the hospice in florida?
    Or the orange clad clinic bombers downtown?
    Protesters are fair game if they dont support your opinion?
    Well, now you’ve identified the problem.
    As far as innocent “victims” in prison, i think we all want to see any of that corrected dont we?

    “””Since 1976, over 100 death row inmates in the United States have been exonerated before their sentences were carried out. Over the same period 796 death row inmates in the United States have been executed. These numbers have raised concern over how many of those 796 executed were wrongfully convicted. Some states, recognizing the urgency of the situation, have declared a moratorium on executions. The United States Congress has also taken notice of this crisis in the criminal justice system.

    In February 2000, Senators Patrick Leahy (D-VT), Gordon Smith (R-OR), and Susan Collins (R-ME) introduced the Innocence Protection Act (S. 486). An amended version of this bill ultimately passed the Senate Judiciary Committee in July 2002, but did not make it to the Senate floor for a vote before the close of the 107th Congress. Representatives Bill Delahunt (D-MA) and Ray LaHood (R-IL) introduced a companion bill in the House of Representatives (H.R. 912). The House Judiciary Committee has not yet considered H.R. 912. With 31 co-sponsors in the Senate and 249 co-sponsors in the House, the Innocence Protection Act (IPA) has garnered bi-partisan support. The IPA will be reintroduced in the 108th Congress during 2003.

    In a Senate address on November 18, 2002 Senator Leahy stated, “Our bill, the Innocence Protection Act, proposes a number of basic commonsense reforms to our criminal justice system; reforms that are aimed at reducing the risk that innocent people will be put to death.” The IPA was not drafted in opposition to the death penalty itself; rather it focuses on protecting the wrongfully convicted from execution. The IPA has two core elements: access to post-conviction DNA testing; and the improvement of defense counsel in capital trials.”””

  22. 31

    dj spews:

    Rex @ 21

    There seems to be a “subtle,” but extremely important, difference.

    For the Waco and Gonzalez cases, people were breaking the law. The case that Goldy discusses is a person who was not breaking the law, and furthermore, the police lied about it! Don’t you think that is kind of important?

    As importantly, police were used as a political tool in shutting down protests. Not surprisingly, false arrests were made and police had to lie—potentially at the expense of innocent people. The Waco and Gonzalez cases were the police enforcing the law at the orders of the DOJ, not being used to promote a political party. Indeed, some law enforcement actions go awry, and we should do what we can to prevent that.

    A police state comes about when the police act primarily for benefit of the political party in rule. This should be unacceptable to all Americans—even wingnuts.

  23. 32

    thehim spews:

    The US Senator of NY, the famous radical.
    Hillary the protesing mamma. screaming….
    “we have a right to debate with this administration”
    How is she explaining her husbands new family to her protesting base?
    great article wasn’t it?

    Wait a second. Are you saying that we don’t have a right to debate with this administration? Or do you not know the difference between a debate and a protest? Either way, that’s a scary statement made by somehow who (I’m guessing here) claims to be a patriotic American.

    As for the article, Bill Clinton is a statesman, and he respects GWB as a person. As do I. I think he’s the worst President we’ve had in a long time, but as a human being, I respect him. That’s all the article is saying. There’s no endorsement of Bush policy there, just a comaraderie of two people who’ve done the most difficult job in the world.

  24. 34

    chardonnay spews:

    27
    what a manipulator you are. the branch davidian’s were on their own property. they were not out on the steps protesting. where is your liberal motto “It’s a family matter” you all chanted durring the murder of Terri Schiavo?

  25. 36

    prr spews:

    absolutely

    If you are dumb enough to belive a hippie is Christ and make the decision to stockpile weapons and try an fight off tanks, you should be killed before get a chance to do some real harm.

    As for the little cuban kid, let’s face it. Where was his green card? Where was his visa? I don’t care if you are 3 months or 30 years old. Don’t be an illegal alien.

    I’ll even ad one for you. Rachel Corrie…. If you are stupid enough to play chicken with heavy machinery, don’t sue the manufacturer.

  26. 38

    thehim spews:

    As per the WTO riots, stop blaming the anarchists, you little shitheads got exactly what you deserved. Let me guess, you failed to see all the police in storm trooper gear, the Tear gas, the percussion grenades and were surprised by getting arrested?

    You little shitheads? I was coming home from work, numnuts. I explained that in my last post. Hell, I considered myself a conservative back then. I didn’t even know there were going to be massive protests until halfway through my day. I got there at 4, trying to catch my connecting bus downtown, and saw kids in black spray painting windows and trying to kick over mailboxes. Then, I went up a few blocks and saw the actual protestors, thousands of them, trying to move away from the police lines, but weren’t able to because of the crowds.

    I’m sorry if I’m causing you distress by challenging your preconceived notion of what happened there, but unless you were there, you might want to put a sock in it before you make an even bigger ass of yourself.

  27. 39

    prr spews:

    Actually, I was there as well and saw a much different view.

    Don’t try and re-write history

  28. 40

    thehim spews:

    where did I say we should not debate?

    Right here

    Hillary the protesing mamma. screaming….
    “we have a right to debate with this administration”
    How is she explaining her husbands new family to her protesting base?

    Or were you praising Hillary’s courage there to challenge the Administration? I don’t know how else to read that other than to assume that you belief asking for a debate is a form of protest (and one that you have disdain for).

  29. 41

    thehim spews:

    1968 Chicago

    This ain’t new.

    What’s new is that large numbers of people find it acceptable as long as they’re just ‘liberals’.

  30. 42

    thehim spews:

    Actually, I was there as well and saw a much different view.

    Then share it. What did you see?

  31. 43

    prr spews:

    the him @ 41

    You hit the nail right on the head.

    large numbers of people do find public liberal beatings acceptable.

  32. 44

    Goldy spews:

    prr @20,

    Hey, I have to say, when it comes to protestors, I would not shed a tear if a few of these ended up dead from time to time.

    My point is, that’s exactly what will happen eventually. One effective way to shut up malcontents like me: death.

    Man… you’re creepy.

  33. 45

    thehim spews:

    sorry to break rank but i gotta call it like it is.

    Rex, you shouldn’t have to apologize to tell the truth.

  34. 46

    Rex spews:

    prr @ 36

    to belive a hippie is Christ and make the decision to stockpile weapons

    you got your first and second amendment right there, pal. you’ll take those from me over my dead body…tanks or not.

  35. 47

    prr spews:

    The him @ 42

    What did I see?

    I saw a pre-planned riot happen. I saw freaks coming into this city with the intent on ripping it up. And when they started getting the beatings and arrests that they anticipated, they birched and moaned and got the ACLU involed.

    One of the best things I saw, was the Russioan WTO delegate for who pulled a gun on one of the anarchists when they tried to physically restrain them. That was funny.

    I also saw protestors heading back up into Capitol hill and rioting throughout the night.

  36. 48

    thehim spews:

    You hit the nail right on the head.

    large numbers of people do find public liberal beatings acceptable.

    And up until recently, they were mostly in the Middle East.

  37. 51

    Diggindude spews:

    So here it is.
    This is what the neo-repub. wackos represent.
    Bunch of nuts. I knew if they talked long enough, they would give away all the lies about life, and being free of gov’t.
    Congratulations on a tiny moment of truth and clarity.

  38. 52

    thehim spews:

    I saw a pre-planned riot happen. I saw freaks coming into this city with the intent on ripping it up.

    Yes, I saw this too. But there were also far more numerous non-violent protestors.

    And when they started getting the beatings and arrests that they anticipated, they birched and moaned and got the ACLU involed.

    They anticipated beatings? Uh, no. Not even close. In fact, the biggest complaint of people who were there protesting was that the police were doing nothing about the people who came to cause damage. I saw this too. Several policemen walked right past a guy who was spray painting a window. The cops should have thrown him up against a wall and cuffed him. The WTO riots were an example of horrendous policework in several ways. One of which was a lack of pro-activity in finding the real trouble makers until they could do nothing but flail at mostly innocent folks once things got heated.

    I also saw protestors heading back up into Capitol hill and rioting throughout the night.

    Yes, but none of those people were the ones who got arrested. The people who got arrested were people who got trapped at the front of the crowd. Some of them were stupid, but the net that was cast took in many innocent people (some, as I mentioned earlier, were only commuters). If that happened to you, you’d have called the ACLU in a second.

  39. 53

    thehim spews:

    Hopefully we will see more of this in Seattle

    It would put a hop in Bin Laden’s step. I don’t think he ever imagined how easy it would be to convert us.

  40. 54

    thehim spews:

    This is what the neo-repub. wackos represent.
    Bunch of nuts. I knew if they talked long enough, they would give away all the lies about life, and being free of gov’t.
    Congratulations on a tiny moment of truth and clarity.

    Sometimes all it takes is a little prodding, and the truth comes out.

  41. 55

    prr spews:

    thehim & diggindude

    isn’t it time for the two of you to go home and get pushed around by your wives or boyfriends?

  42. 56

    chardonnay spews:

    40
    are you having a difficult day?
    is Hillary a liberal? While hubby Clinton is off playing with the conservative Bush Family, Senator Clinton feeds her radical base with her bs.

  43. 57

    thehim spews:

    isn’t it time for the two of you to go home and get pushed around by your wives or boyfriends?

    Isn’t it time for you to strap on a pair and actually make an intelligent point?

  44. 58

    thehim spews:

    is Hillary a liberal? While hubby Clinton is off playing with the conservative Bush Family, Senator Clinton feeds her radical base with her bs.

    Where do you get the impression that liberals and conservatives can’t be friendly to each other as professionals?

    Oh wait, I know the answer to that. It has something to do with the letters K-V-I.

    Do you think Bill Clinton’s political views are somehow closer to GWB’s than they are to Hillary’s? Do you REALLY believe that?

  45. 60

    thehim spews:

    Let’s start with this one (which can be gathered from my previous comments):

    The notion of believing that ‘liberals’ are a threat to our security, and that there should be no mercy towards their individual rights, is a strong cultural force in the Middle East, but an anathema to traditional American values. Osama Bin Laden, and radical Islamics, identify one of their main goals as ‘converting’ us to their way of life. By supporting the notion that the authorities have free reign in dealing with ‘liberal’ protestors, you are assisting Bin Laden in his goal of ‘converting’ us to their way of life.

  46. 61

    thehim spews:

    Here’s a second one:

    Talk radio, and the culture of Cable news, has given us a polarized society, in which people believe that every issue has a clear “left” vs “right” undertone, and that you must choose sides, or you don’t fit into the political spectrum. Principled moderation takes a backseat to broad agendas.

  47. 62

    Danw spews:

    Now you all know why GW’s townhall meetings, are reheresed and the Audience screened. Having a hard time arresting people for free speech, I guess when Patriot 2 passes we can open up those townhall meetings.

    Whiney
    what about all those protesters in front of Planned Parenthood clinics, shouldn’t we take a few down? Hell they can set off bombs, make death threats, vandalize and get away with it.
    I know you want to promote these prople to stardom, just like Bush promotes the people who screwed up Iraq.

  48. 63

    prr spews:

    thehim @ 60

    Actually, I would say your point is the exact opposite.

    your poresting actaully supports our enemies making you an enemy of our nation.

    As such, you should be dealt with in a severe fashion.

    Unfortunately, it would be illegal to shoot protestors on site, but I don’t think I would object to that action based on attitudes such as yours.

  49. 65

    Danw spews:

    PRR
    What a bonehead!
    Have you ever even read the first amendment?..there is a reason they made it the first one.

    Please move to Hayden lake and take whine with ya. I am sure we can drum up enough support to make it your own country…we need another country to attack anyway.

  50. 66

    thehim spews:

    your poresting actaully supports our enemies making you an enemy of our nation.

    In what way? Our enemies want us to behave like them, so taking away the rights of protestors is a way to support those enemies.

    As such, you should be dealt with in a severe fashion.

    Unfortunately, it would be illegal to shoot protestors on site, but I don’t think I would object to that action based on attitudes such as yours.

    You think exactly the same way that people in Al Qaeda think when it comes to ‘liberal’ protestors who don’t like living under theocratic rule. The more Americans who think like you, the more Bin Laden is successful in his mission.

  51. 67

    angryvoter spews:

    I was at WTO as an infantry squad leader in the National Guard The radicals I was dealing with were violent and out to hurt people and/or property. If it were in another country, deadly force would have been authorized. We had bottles full of gas thrown at us, manhole covers tossed off of buildings, blue federal mailboxes thrown into our vehicles at stop signs, my troops were maced, spit on, had human feces tossed from roof tops onto them and they all exhibited incredible restraint during the riot. These citizens were not deserving of Constitutional protection to peacably assemble. They were there to start a fight, too bad we couldnt finish it. Criminals.

  52. 69

    prr spews:

    Angryvoter….

    Firstly, thanks for bing ther during WTO.

    Also, thanks for giving your standpoint on this.

  53. 70

    thehim spews:

    where in previous posts did you make these comments?

    Point #1 – 48
    Point #2 – 24

    Of course, I expanded on the points for clarification, but neither was too profound for most people’s grasp.

  54. 71

    prr spews:

    thehim at 66

    If you have not figured it out yet.

    Bin laden relies on your suppoort by causing problems in that states.

    you need to wake up and look at the damage you are doing to our country, to the service people overseas and to the vets back home.

  55. 72

    prr spews:

    Thehim @ 70.

    Maybe the beating Angryvoter gave you during the WTO protestors caused brain damage.

    I did not get that out of either of those posts.

  56. 73

    Diggindude spews:

    thehim & diggindude

    isn’t it time for the two of you to go home and get pushed around by your wives or boyfriends?

    Comment by prr— 4/12/05 @ 2:36 pm

    I knew the last time we disagreed that you were a wack job.
    It just a gift I have.
    You seem to be confused more today, though.
    Being the bully, doesn’t mean you’re tough. Beating up the bully, when he needs it, is what I like to do.

  57. 75

    Danw spews:

    PRR

    You got a problem with the constitution? Here we are trying to shove it down the throat of everyone else, and you don’t even believe in it. (go figure)..you must be unamerican.

    Quit hiding behind Nationalism and the 4th amendment.
    And you wonder why we always accuse you guys of being Fascists?

    Please FOAD or Move to Hayden lake.

  58. 76

    Diggindude spews:

    av,and prr in la-la land,

    I think getting clipped by one of your imaginary manhole lids, could have done both of you, and the rest of us some good.
    Please try to lead “head down” at the next wto rally.

    Ag@insane,

    When you aren’t defending the third reich, do you dress in orange and bomb abortion clinics in your spare time?
    Tell me you aren’t really a national guardsman!!

  59. 79

    thehim spews:

    I was at WTO as an infantry squad leader in the National Guard The radicals I was dealing with were violent and out to hurt people and/or property.

    I don’t doubt that, the radicals were violent and they were out to damage property. Although, the National Guard was not summoned until late afternoon (3:24 PM). In fact, when I rolled through there at 4:30, the National Guard was still arriving. The majority of the protestors were on their way out by that point. The ones who got arrested were ones that ended up getting caught in the dragnet.

    The radicals picked a fight, and they got one. I have no sympathy for them, but I do have sympathy for the many people who came out to peacably protest, and ended up in the crossfire. The question here is whether it’s ok to violate the rights of peaceful protestors. Angryvoter, you can say all you want that there weren’t any, but it doesn’t matter, the National Guard units didn’t arrive until most of them had already left, or were trying to leave.

  60. 80

    prr spews:

    diggindude @ 76

    here we go.

    as soon as omeone says all hippies should die, you start talking about the 3rd reich

    That song has been played out

  61. 81

    thehim spews:

    Bin laden relies on your suppoort by causing problems in that states.

    What the heck are you talking about?

  62. 82

    prr spews:

    thehim @ 79

    At 4:40 you were actively a part of a mob and were dealt with as such.

    too frigin bad. Were you injured?

    Hope so

  63. 83

    Danw spews:

    Oh I get it, you get free speech, but those who disagree should take a bullet. Free speech and right to protest are required.

    PS
    Yes and the ACLU will defend you too, until you let these idiots abolish the constitution and all these “Fringe” groups by passing Patriot 2 or worse.

    Please GOP get your party back.

  64. 84

    thehim spews:

    Maybe the beating Angryvoter gave you during the WTO protestors caused brain damage.

    I did not get that out of either of those posts.

    I didn’t expect you to. And no, I did not see any National Guardsmen while I was down there. They didn’t even arrive until later. It’s very possible Angryvoter is telling the truth, but it doesn’t really change the fact that the Seattle Police did, in fact, arrest innocent people.

  65. 86

    prr spews:

    thehim @ 84

    so which is it/ The national gurd was or was not there when you rolled through @ 4:30.

    Your story has many holes.

  66. 87

    thehim spews:

    as soon as omeone says all hippies should die, you start talking about the 3rd reich

    That song has been played out

    I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that Hitler said that all pacifists were enemies of the German Reich?

  67. 90

    Danw spews:

    Cynical;

    Just because you are here, does that mean the audit has been scheduled yet? BIAW find a new way to get more money from the government? Did you fix the books over at “Business Is Ass Wipeing” to show better than 99.95% legit? Speaking of a waste of Government money. Here is Free enterprise for you. Make a living off getting money back from the government you hate.
    Your right we need to have them more accountable, either lower the rebates to 10% or have them do it themselves, let’s cut out those middle men, who don’t even do the safety training programs they promise.
    Now that should be the first cut Olympia should do.

  68. 91

    thehim spews:

    Were you one of those guys that killed Nick Berg?

    No, he was killed by people who believe that ‘liberal’ protestors should be killed.

    so which is it/ The national gurd was or was not there when you rolled through @ 4:30.

    Your story has many holes.

    The National Guard was summoned at 3:24PM. They didn’t instantly materialize downtown. It must have taken some time for them to get there. By the time I was out of there at 4:30, I still hadn’t seen any, but that’s not to say that they weren’t a few blocks away. Once again, that doesn’t change the fact that SPD arrested innocent people.

  69. 92

    thehim spews:

    you need a history lesson

    I do? So I assume you’ve read Mein Kampf? Or did you read an imaginary version?

  70. 93

    prr spews:

    the him @ 91

    As he was there trying to helf out and be an independant contractor. he was killed by fanatics taht were against this was and against the US…. you know people just like you.

    which is it. the national guard show up at,a s you have said, 3:24 but don’t all show up until later?

    Is this a cocktail party? were they fashionably late? I’ve heard of those military manuevers that go, when people show up, “when they get there”

  71. 96

    thehim spews:

    As he was there trying to helf out and be an independant contractor. he was killed by fanatics taht were against this was and against the US….

    That’s not true. They were not against the war. The people who killed Nick Berg WANT to have a war between Islam and the West. The War in Iraq was the best thing ever to happen to radical Islamics. We’ve done them a favor by giving them a battleground on their turf that we don’t have the money or resources to defend.

    which is it. the national guard show up at,a s you have said, 3:24 but don’t all show up until later?

    Holy crap you’re dumb. They were SUMMONED at 3:24. That does not mean that Mayor Schell waved a magic wand at the corner of 5th and Pike and “POOF”, a thousand National Guardsmen appeared. I’ll let angryvoter clarify what time they got there, he’d know better than me. I never saw them an hour later, but they could’ve been only a few blocks away as far as I know.

    And just in case you’ve forgotten again, I was not protesting, I was coming back from work (this seems to be continually forgotten here).

    Is this a cocktail party? were they fashionably late? I’ve heard of those military manuevers that go, when people show up, “when they get there”

    Well, it depends on where they’re coming from, doesn’t it? I’m pretty good with math, so if you give me distance and speed, I can calculate time, but I have to know where they’re coming from, Einstein.

  72. 98

    thehim spews:

    Prr,
    Most pictures say a thousand words, except for those two. All I see is a lamppost, an arm, and shield with a picture taped on it.

  73. 99

    chardonnay spews:

    you keep chanting, “innocent people were arrested”, and your point is?
    Are you blaming the SPD and dismissing responsibility from the “protesing peacefully group?”

  74. 100

    thehim spews:

    Oh, and I’m still waiting for you clarify exactly what part of “Hitler said that all pacifists were enemies of the German Reich” you disagree with. I have a feeling I’ll be waiting a long time.

  75. 101

    thehim spews:

    you keep chanting, “innocent people were arrested”, and your point is?

    My point is that in a police state, that’s what happens. That was Goldy’s point with this post.

    Are you blaming the SPD and dismissing responsibility from the “protesing peacefully group?”

    Yes, of course I am. It wasn’t even just peaceful protestors who were arrested. As I said, my friend’s co-worker was arrested because the door leaving her downtown office opened up into a restricted zone (and she had no idea).

  76. 102

    Diggindude spews:

    thehim@01

    As I said, my friend’s co-worker was arrested because the door leaving her downtown office opened up into a restricted zone “”(and she had no idea)””.

    Comment by thehim
    Your friend’s co-worker and char, have something in common.

  77. 104

    chardonnay spews:

    But a police state? Who was the Mayor and who was the police chief at the time? I seem to recall several violent/deadly activities happening in Seattle durring that time. Chris Kime @ mardi gras for one. the police did nothing as he was beaten to death. I’m not sure if those officials in charge ever took responsibility for these things. They should have.

  78. 105

    Danw spews:

    come on Char show up, we would love to see you spew until your Blue, I mean Red in the face.

  79. 106

    Danw spews:

    You see the difference here is we won’t prescreen the audience. But we might might have someone dressed up like a secret Service agent to drag you out if we don’t like your bumper sticker.

  80. 108

    spews:

    You gotta laugh whenever someone claims the Clinton administration “murdered” the Branch Davidians.
    Next time I set myself and my family on fire when someone comes to arrest me for being a criminal,
    I’ll make sure to have my attorney seek a murder charge for the police.

    Since the Davidians were essentially protestors, isn’t it correct that they were killed?

  81. 109

    thehim spews:

    But a police state?

    I don’t think we’ve gotten that bad, but what concerns me is that it CAN become bad if we stop caring about the times when innocent people get arrested. That’s why the compulsion to ignore what happened in New York, and what happened to some innocent people during the WTO riots, and just lash out at the ACLU, is dangerous for this country.

    What I hear on this board is that if you protest, you lose your rights. Now, mainly I’m hearing this from Prr, and even other right-leaning folks aren’t going that far, so it’s not a blanket indictment of the right. I’m basically pointing out to Prr that if he’s cool with a police state, he’s succumbed to the efforts of Bin Laden to convert us to ‘their’ way of life.

    Who was the Mayor and who was the police chief at the time?

    The implementation of a police state has little to do with left-right political leaning. The authoritarian-libertarian scale is a different dynamic altogether. That’s why both liberal and conservative politicians cross the line with it. It’s an American value, however, for citizens to hold the libertarian front against the government. Supporting authoritarianism due to a left-right political leaning is just foolish.

  82. 110

    Dubyasux spews:

    prr @ 5

    I’m thinking more of the people arrested on suspicion of being Democrats at Shrub’s public* town hall meetings promoting his Social Security ripoff.

    * “Public” means you can’t get in without a ticket from a GOP congressman, and you’re subject to immediate arrest and removal by party goons impersonating Secret Service agents if there’s a “No War for Oil” sticker on the car you came to the event in.

  83. 111

    angryvoter spews:

    Diggin @ 76

    Anytime you want to toss one at me, just let me know where to be, I would be happy to give you a shot. Like your cohorts who started that riot, you have nothing constructive to offer society. And they were not imaginary manhole covers, very real, all documented on video. One of my troops required stitches to his forehead from a rock tossed into a windshield.

    National Guard Infantry companies were alerted for deployment the night before, mustered over the evening and morning, conducted refresher riot training all night and morning. Advance teams of leadership and scouts were on the ground the night before the news knew about the alert. If I recall correctly, all boots on the ground by 430pm at the latest. But, it was a long couple of days and it was a few years ago.

    We made a very big effort to ID trouble makers from those caught in the mix, it wasnt that hard. If you were wearing a black bandana on your face and throwing bottles full of gas, you probably got tossed on the concrete and cuffed. If you were not engagning in illegal behavior, you were escorted out of the restricted zone.

    Sorry for the long post, but some of you do not have a flippin clue as to what you are talking about. I was there, start to finish and I know what I saw.

  84. 112

    thehim spews:

    Chris Kime @ mardi gras for one. the police did nothing as he was beaten to death.

    Believe it or not, I was there that night as well. A bottle whizzed past my head after my friends and I ducked out of a bar nearby. That was honestly twice as scary as WTO, and sadly, there weren’t many cops around in the first place. Just poor planning on the part of the city. I’ve been to real Mardi Gras in New Orleans, and there you meet cops who know how to deal with that shit. In Seattle, they just don’t.

  85. 113

    Dubyasux spews:

    “Three Were Told to Leave Bush Town Meeting

    “By Jim VandeHei
    “The Washington Post

    “Wednesday 30 March 2005

    “Three Denver residents yesterday charged that they were forcibly removed from one of President Bush’s town meetings on Social Security because they displayed a bumper sticker on their car condemning the administration’s Middle East policies.

    “The three, all self-described progressives who oppose Bush’s Social Security plan, said an unidentified official at an event in Denver last week forced them to leave before the president started to speak, even though they had done nothing disruptive, said their attorney, Dan Recht.

    “Initially, the three believed Secret Service agents had grabbed them and ushered them out of the auditorium, Recht said. But he said that Lon Garner, the Secret Service agent in charge of the Denver office, told them the service investigated the matter and found it was a “Republican staffer” who removed them because they had a “No More Blood for Oil” bumper sticker on their car.”

    Welcome to Dubya’s Thousand Year Reich! For the rest of this story see http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/033005O.shtml

  86. 114

    Dubyasux spews:

    prr @ 7

    Don’t forget to click your heels together when you give the Nazi salute as Shrub’s motorcade goes by. And for God’s sake, don’t read any newspapers or get a clue!

  87. 115

    Dubyasux spews:

    chuck @ 13

    Yeah, it must’ve been left-wing cops who beat the shit out of Rodney King after arresting him on suspicion of being black. Then they all drove the donut shop in their hybrid Japanese cars and ordered Atkins diet donuts with no glaze and decaf coffee.

  88. 117

    chardonnay spews:

    Thehim @ 109 & 112
    I appreciate your view on this issue. I agree that we should hold the officials accountable for their actions and they should know we are watching their every move. However, I think we are a very long way from the NKVD.

  89. 119

    Diggindude spews:

    ag@11

    “”Like your cohorts who started that riot, you have nothing constructive to offer society.””
    Comment by angryvoter
    You were there start to finish, but you got there at 4:30?
    Seriously, you dont know who my cohorts are, but I can assure you, i share some of the views as those protestors.
    The wto, is bullshit, and needs to be dismantled.
    Its too bad, you arent defending your country, and are actually defending the demise of it, by helping the wto kill democracy.

  90. 120

    thehim spews:

    I appreciate your view on this issue. I agree that we should hold the officials accountable for their actions and they should know we are watching their every move. However, I think we are a very long way from the NKVD.

    We are, but it’s still patriotic to detest even moving slightly in that direction.

  91. 121

    Dubyasux spews:

    prr @ 63

    People like you are America’s greatest enemies, and you are deluding yourself if you think you’re “patriotic.”

  92. 122

    Chuck spews:

    Something for you guys to ponder…it is the liberal thing to do by hiring more and more police officers (clinton crime bill and so on)
    Now for a non police state, we have more police officers per capita than any nation on the earth.
    Food for thought…

  93. 123

    Dubyasux spews:

    prr @ 71

    I’m a “vet back home” (a Vietnam vet to be exact) and nothing dishonors my service or the sacrifices of my fellow veterans more than the hateful, violent, anti-American rantings of neo-nazis like you.

  94. 124

    Dubyasux spews:

    prr @ 80

    No, that song has just started, because you have proven by your comments in this thread that you are a violent, anti-American, anti-Constitution, neo-nazi.

  95. 125

    Dubyasux spews:

    thehim @ 96

    He hasn’t forgotten. You’re confused, that’s all. You see, PRR the Neo-Nazi thinks you should be killed for being a worker. Don’t you get it? Capitalists living off investment income = good; working for a living = evil.

  96. 126

    thehim spews:

    Something for you guys to ponder…it is the liberal thing to do by hiring more and more police officers (clinton crime bill and so on)

    This is what drives me nuts. Hiring more police officers is not a ‘liberal’ or ‘conservative’ thing. It has to do a lot with ‘authoritarian’ vs ‘libertarian’. Not everything a politician does fits nicely into that ‘left-right’ dichotomy. Life is more complicated than that.

    Now for a non police state, we have more police officers per capita than any nation on the earth.

    We also have more violent crime than the rest of the first world, and we also have our heads (both Democrats and Republicans) firmly lodged up our asses when it comes to fighting the drug war. It’s a combination of having a wealthy society, a violent one, and one that still thinks more cops will win the drug war.

  97. 129

    Chuck spews:

    No, the democrats idea of solving crime is take guns from honest citizens and add officers, the conservative way is legalize guns so people can defend themselves.

  98. 130

    dj spews:

    Chuck @ 122

    “we have more police officer per capita than any nation on the earth”

    Sorry, Chuckie, the U.S. does not come close to number one for this stastic. The leader in cops per capita is Montserrat with 8.1 cops per 1000 people. The U.S. is around 2.2 cops per 1000 people. The U.S. is only slightly above average.

  99. 131

    Danw spews:

    DJ 130
    It’s okay, if they repeat it enough times, it becomes truth. ask the “whine”, that’s where her info comes from.

  100. 132

    barchester spews:

    Police state — how absurd. It is no secret that the protest efforts at the GOP convention were advertised, designed and organized to disrupt a perfectly lawful not to mention laudable event, a political convention. The protestors exhibited all the class of those who thought burning down the Reichstag was an act of political speech. In essence, it was the NY protestors who most closely resemble those thuggish social elements, Neo-Nazis, they claim to despise yet so often emulate. They sought to intimidate others and to cover up the boorishness of their conduct by fraudulent appeals to phony victimhood (as you are exhibiting here). How scary for our country if folks like you are so credulous that you actually buy this nonsense. Sad and scary.

  101. 133

    Chuck spews:

    dj@130
    Not according to a Reuters article about 6 months ago in Yahoo news. Possibly your number only covers officers on the street. I believe that the article in yahoo counted prison guards and support personel after all they carry badges as well, also your figure i think only applies to city police, not BATF, FBI, State Patrol, health dept (yes they are deputised), and other agencies.

  102. 134

    PET LIBS are too expensive to own! spews:

    Don’t forget to click your heels together when you give the Nazi salute as Shrub’s motorcade goes by. -Comment by Dubyasux— 4/12/05 @ 5:03 pm

    Exploding Liberal Myths 8: The Nazi Meme
    http://mensnewsdaily.com/archi.....112204.htm

    EXCERPTS:

    Once again, we’re being “treated” to the same tired old cries of Liberal outrage. How dare the stupid people of America not whole-heartedly embrace Liberal ideas and policies? Why, they must all be mind-controlled. They must all be… Nazis!

    “Nazi” is a sort of pet insult many Liberals use to taunt Conservatives without understanding what it really means, the same way a three-year-old will endlessly repeat any four-letter words you might happen to drop in front of him or her. The more you say, “don’t say that; it’s a bad word” the more likely you are to hear it.

    In fact, the Nazis were actually Socialists by nature, not capitalists. In a 1927 speech, Hitler said, “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.”

    The word “Nazi” is short for Nationalsozialistische deutsche Arbeiter-Partei, or National Socialist German Workers’ Party. Hitler came to power by turning the unemployed, the working class, and the academic elitists against the rather conservative German republic. In fact, once he achieved power, anyone who questioned his policies was branded a “conservative reactionary” by the State press. In a widely-distributed 1932 pamphlet, Joseph Goebbels addressed the question of Socialism. “We are socialists,” he wrote, “because we see the social question as a matter of necessity and justice for the very existence of a state for our people, not a question of cheap pity or insulting sentimentality. The worker has a claim to a living standard that corresponds to what he produces.”

    The Nazi Party platform contained 25 demands, adopted in 1920 and essentially unaltered at the time Hitler took power. Many of those Socialist demands resonate far better with modern-day American Liberals than Conservatives. Consider the following examples:

    7. We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens.

    Does this sound more akin to the Liberal belief that the government is responsible for job losses or gains, or the Conservative position that jobs are created by private enterprise (though helped or hindered by current economic policies)? Does it sound like a demand for welfare?

    11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.

    This is aimed directly at landlords and large business owners. It hardly seems likely that capitalists and Conservatives would insist that no one receive any money unless they personally earn it by doing the actual work themselves.

    12. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

    If that doesn’t sound like today’s standard Liberal hate speech against Halliburton, nothing ever will.

    13. We demand the nationalization of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).

    Nationalisation of industries is hardly in line with the Conservative aim of privatisation of industries. It’s Liberals, in general, who want to nationalise industries (starting with healthcare).

    14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

    Wealth redistribution? Does that sound like a particularly right-wing ideal?

    15. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

    Republicans and Conservatives are accused of wanting to halt Medicare and steal Social Security in every election cycle, so this demand for expansion could hardly be a part of any Conservative agenda.

    25. For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general.

    Conservatives, who favor more limited government with lower taxes (in order to restrict its growth), would directly oppose a strong central government with unlimited authority (possibly resisting with guns, which German citizens first had to register, then surrender).

    Despite the historical facts, Liberals frequently insist on equating Conservatives and Republicans to Nazis. This is only done to stir up feelings of hate, of course. If Democrats want to know why they keep losing elections, it’s because they allow the left-wing politics of hatred to be their public face. Until the Democrats relegate Liberals to the minority fringe where they belong, we will continue to see the country slide towards a one-party system, which would be detrimental to us all.

    Note to RIGHT THINKING ADULTS:

    Be sure to check out Exploding Liberal Myths 1-8 which can be found here:
    http://guardian.blogdrive.com/.....4_o-0.html
    and Exploding Liberal Myths 9 which can be found here: http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679.....ticle/5886

    It’s fascinating reading!

  103. 135

    Dubyasux spews:

    I’ll bet all the law-and-order types posting here — including our resident skinhead, prr — have fuzzbusters on their dashboards and license plate covers so the intersection cameras can’t read their plates.

  104. 137

    Jon spews:

    Goldy,

    I’m not condoning the police by any means, and false arrest is false arrest, but I have to ask: What right did those protesters have to DISRUPT (not protest) the RNC? You and I have the freedom to speak, but I don’t believe you have the freedom to shout me down because you don’t agree, and somebody listening to me has the right to hear me, don’t they?

    I don’t have the right to hack into this site and delete, alter, disrupt, whatever just because I may not agree with you.

    Also, I find it absolutely incredible that some of the same people screaming about “police state” are behind speech codes at a number of universities. Now that’s hypocrisy.

  105. 138

    Dubyasux spews:

    chard @ 104

    You ARE clueless about what’s happening around you, aren’t you? The police chief resigned and the mayor was defeated in the next election.

  106. 139

    Dubyasux spews:

    AV @ 111

    Too bad you weren’t in Miami back in 2000 when that GOP mob was interfering with the lawful activities of the election board. I would have liked to see you beat up some of them with your nightstick, and shoot a couple of ‘em for good measure. Where were you when your country needed you?

  107. 141

    Dubyasux spews:

    Chuck @ 135

    Oh I get it now — local ordinances aren’t laws, so you can ignore them and it’s okay to speed on streets where little kids are playing and blow red lights.

  108. 142

    Dubyasux spews:

    I live on a city street posted at 25 but all the Republican assholes in pickups with gun racks blow through here at 50 to 60. We had a crippled man in a wheelchair killed in a crosswalk in my neighborhood last year.

  109. 145

    chardonnay spews:

    Don, talking about RatCity off Delridge?
    and to answer your vomit at 137, you continually misread.
    but here is is again so you don’t have to scroll up. I said-
    I’m not sure if those officials in charge ever took responsibility for these things. They should have.
    Sure they left office Don, does that meen they took responsibility? A little like Logan, Sims and Gregoire. Fire and blame the clerks, the public will soon forget. Is it right?

  110. 147

    Chuck spews:

    Dubyasux@140
    Sorry if your kid is playing by the main gate of McCord AFB, you need arrested for endangering your child. By the way, when you break the law you are entitled to a trial by a jury of your peers, not so with breaking an ordinance.

  111. 148

    PET LIBS are too expensive to own! spews:

    Don’t forget to click your heels together when you give the Nazi salute as Shrub’s motorcade goes by. -Comment by Dubyasux— 4/12/05 @ 5:03 pm

    Exploding Liberal Myths 8: The Nazi Meme
    http://mensnewsdaily.com/archi.....112204.htm

    EXCERPTS:

    Once again, we’re being “treated” to the same tired old cries of Liberal outrage. How dare the stupid people of America not whole-heartedly embrace Liberal ideas and policies? Why, they must all be mind-controlled. They must all be… Nazis!

    “Nazi” is a sort of pet insult many Liberals use to taunt Conservatives without understanding what it really means, the same way a three-year-old will endlessly repeat any four-letter words you might happen to drop in front of him or her. The more you say, “don’t say that; it’s a bad word” the more likely you are to hear it.

    In fact, the Nazis were actually Soci*lists by nature, not capitalists. In a 1927 speech, Hitler said, “We are soci*lists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.”

    The word “Nazi” is short for Nationalsozialistische deutsche Arbeiter-Partei, or National Soci*list German Workers’ Party. Hitler came to power by turning the unemployed, the working class, and the academic elitists against the rather conservative German republic. In fact, once he achieved power, anyone who questioned his policies was branded a “conservative reactionary” by the State press. In a widely-distributed 1932 pamphlet, Joseph Goebbels addressed the question of Soci*lism. “We are soci*lists,” he wrote, “because we see the social question as a matter of necessity and justice for the very existence of a state for our people, not a question of cheap pity or insulting sentimentality. The worker has a claim to a living standard that corresponds to what he produces.”

    The Nazi Party platform contained 25 demands, adopted in 1920 and essentially unaltered at the time Hitler took power. Many of those Soci*list demands resonate far better with modern-day American Liberals than Conservatives. Consider the following examples:

    7. We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens.

    Does this sound more akin to the Liberal belief that the government is responsible for job losses or gains, or the Conservative position that jobs are created by private enterprise (though helped or hindered by current economic policies)? Does it sound like a demand for welfare?

    11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.

    This is aimed directly at landlords and large business owners. It hardly seems likely that capitalists and Conservatives would insist that no one receive any money unless they personally earn it by doing the actual work themselves.

    12. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

    If that doesn’t sound like today’s standard Liberal hate speech against Halliburton, nothing ever will.

    13. We demand the nationalization of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).

    Nationalisation of industries is hardly in line with the Conservative aim of privatisation of industries. It’s Liberals, in general, who want to nationalise industries (starting with healthcare).

    14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

    Wealth redistribution? Does that sound like a particularly right-wing ideal?

    15. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

    Republicans and Conservatives are accused of wanting to halt Medicare and steal Social Security in every election cycle, so this demand for expansion could hardly be a part of any Conservative agenda.

    25. For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general.

    Conservatives, who favor more limited government with lower taxes (in order to restrict its growth), would directly oppose a strong central government with unlimited authority (possibly resisting with guns, which German citizens first had to register, then surrender).

    Despite the historical facts, Liberals frequently insist on equating Conservatives and Republicans to Nazis. This is only done to stir up feelings of hate, of course. If Democrats want to know why they keep losing elections, it’s because they allow the left-wing politics of hatred to be their public face. Until the Democrats relegate Liberals to the minority fringe where they belong, we will continue to see the country slide towards a one-party system, which would be detrimental to us all.

    Note to RIGHT THINKING ADULTS:

    Be sure to check out Exploding Liberal Myths 1-8 which can be found here:
    http://guardian.blogdrive.com/.....4_o-0.html
    and Exploding Liberal Myths 9 which can be found here: http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679.....ticle/5886

    It’s fascinating reading!

  112. 149

    angryvoter spews:

    Hey Dubyasux,

    Anytime you need a beating with a nightstick just let me know. I would be happy to help out. By the way, we didnt beat anyone with nightsticks… Keep repeating it and someone may believe you…

  113. 150

    DamnageD spews:

    PPR @ all

    you need some serious help. One can have all the opinions they want…not agree with others point of view, but to activly hope of wish for others death because they are execrising one basic of Americaians, freedom of speach. And to read the comment “dont go hiding behind the first amendment”…wow…youve got issues. MAJOR crainial misfiring going on here folks.

    As for WTO… I thought the ship left years ago, but here we are again like it was yesterday. SO where you you PPR when all hell broke loose? Dont answer…that was retorical. I dont care (but youll attempt to abuse me anyways).

    See, what you fail to fully understand, and I really dont give a shit if you get this or not (cause I know wont, and attack me reguardless) is that the intent of the bulk of protesters was valid and peaceful. But beyond that, there were thousands of regular folks WORKING who got trapped in that riot for the only reason that they worked downtown.

    SO given your level of tolerance, they should be mowed down by the Republican Guard (oh, wait…wrong country) as well? If I wer e as truly mean sprirted as you, then I would wish your family in the front when the lead flys…but i digress. Some folks got hurt (and i’m sure you relish in that fact, thats sick) for no good reason, republican and democrat alike. But that okay, huh? Lets just KILL ‘EM ALL!!!

    I do have to question that validity of the National Guard comment about manhole covers being tossed from roof tops. Hey Diggendude, this sounds like your area of expertise (no disrespect intended) what do those things weigh, one or 2 hundred pounds? ya think they can be pulled from the ground level, huffed up stairs ( wait, a smart rioter would use the elevator)obtain the easy access to the roof (cause we all know one can just waltz to any highrise rooftop) and fling that thing off like a frisbee?

    Funny, I dont recall ANY coverage/documentation on that. As far as shit, gas, bottles…you bet! When the state cant handle a protesters that they were warned about (and thaty WERE warned)…then add in the regular citizen who gets hit, gased, arrested, ad nausum…then expect that type of backlash. I saw it all, stuck at work, unable to get home (because the government neglected to consider the common folk) except thru the riots…ooops, just opened that flood gate, now i’m apt to get visually/verbally abused by a phycopath. Thats okay…if the SPD in full riot gear and peper granades cant hurt me, then whats a crusty old bitch behind a Dell gonna do?

    If all the Republicans here can do is hate, than i’m one damn proud Democrat. I really dont think Hate is the moral value this country was founded on…or am I hading behing some amendment?

  114. 151

    Dubyasux spews:

    2muchchardonnay @ 144

    My mistake, I forgot that you rightys like to shoot people. No, the police chief and mayor weren’t shot, sorry to be the one to tell you. Maybe next time, if you can get one of your people (prr?) in office. Angryvoter will get his National Guard unit to provide the firing squad. He likes that kind of shit, too.

    (The National Guard is really cool. You get to fire military weapons and all kinds of other neat shit. If you’re real lucky, you might even get to go to a real war! But only if you vote Republican, because Democrats don’t like that kind of stuff — bombing other countries, torturing civilians, killing brown-skinned people, etc.)

  115. 152

    Dubyasux spews:

    Chuck @ 145

    How do you folks down in Roy handle traffic offenders, Chuck? Shoot ‘em? Or do you give them a trial first, and then shoot ‘em?

  116. 153

    Dubyasux spews:

    prr likes to shoot people. Does he live on the outskirts of Roy too? Does prr work for the Town of Roy ordinance enforcement department? How many people, on average, does Roy shoot every week?

  117. 155

    Dubyasux spews:

    PET LIBS @ 146

    No, not all rightys are Nazis, just the ones like prr who like to shoot people; but all Nazis are rightys. They sure as hell are lefties, or progressives, or Democrats, or even socialists (notwithstanding the word “socialist” in the name of their party — Hitler lied to the German people about a whole bunch of other stuff, too).

    Actually, I’m probably being unfair here (and inaccurate). So far in this thread, I’ve been calling prr a “Nazi” or a “neo-Nazi,” but on reflection, I don’t think he is. I just can’t see a lameass little runt like him getting accepted into the membership of any neo-Nazi group that takes any pride in itself. It’s not enough to shave your head, and wear Doc Martens and a steel jock strap. Looking like a neo-Nazi doesn’t make you a neo-Nazi, just a wanna-be. For one thing, if you can’t even remember which fucking arm you’re supposed to give the Hitler salute with, you’re probably not neo-Nazi material from the point of view of the real skinheads. Not that they’re all that smart either, but they can remember which fucking arm to salute with. That’s it … prr is a neo-nazi wannabe. He’s like Governor Ahhhnold … he talks the talk but doesn’t walk the walk, just a sack of hot air.

  118. 156

    DamnageD spews:

    @148

    dont forget the part about invading countries and overthrowing their government. we’ve become more english than we think.

  119. 157

    Dubyasux spews:

    Advice to DamnageD (re 147) — yes that little prick prr can get on our nerves sometimes, but please remember he’s just a little troll saying these things to get us all riled up. I seriously doubt that prr has ever shot anybody in his entire life. Hell, he’s probably never even pointed a gun at anyone. He’s just a sack of hot air. He says liberals should get beatings and protesters should be shot because he knows it’ll get a rise out of people. The little twerp is probably sitting at his computer laughing his ass off when people get mad about the shit he says. He’s probably not even a neo-nazi wannabe. I’ll bet he doesn’t even own a pair of Doc Martens or a steel jock strap, and doesn’t have the guts to shave his head, because if he did his concubine would give him no sex until it grew back.

  120. 159

    Dubyasux spews:

    Hmmm, apparently Goldy’s filter selects posts randomly. I can’t discern a pattern to it. Some of my posts go through, some don’t. Frankly I’m amazed by what does go through. I’ll bet I could say, “Fuck you, prr, you twerpy little sack of shit” and it would post.

  121. 160

    dj spews:

    PETshit @ 146

    So, you repeat this bullshit without even blinking? Did you graduate from High School? Or is it that you have been sniffing glue ever since?

    It is true that the Nazi platform had some socialist elements initially (which distinguish it from Italian fascism). This was largely a ruse to manipulate voters and gain power (sound familiar?). After rising to power Hitler abandoned most “socialist” thinking and obsessed with other things like racial purity, nationalism, and military conquest.

    My pet insult for wingnuts is “fascist” more so than Nazi. The Italian fascist movement, too, had a (very) few “progressive” elements, but the implementation was totalitarian, nationalistic, and is universally seen as an extreme type of conservative politics. Nazism is considered a close cousin.

    For crying out loud, PETshit, there is lots of objective information available about Nazis and fascism on the web. The crap you parrot is way whacked out.

  122. 161

    DamnageD spews:

    i’ve become tired of the anger and hate that is so commonly vomited by the “right”. But that comment being fodder, i’m only tired of truning it off. See, I love to watch these “intelectuals” make bilthering idiots of themselves, only to turn and say were the tards. So constructive.

  123. 162

    DamnageD spews:

    likely the ohly thing they have ever shot can be cleaned with a napkin. seems more fitting that they type the big fight…I wonder how many (if any) have truly done jack besides run at the mouth. ist all to easy to be a bully, untill ya get your ass handed to ya by the ones you were bulling.

  124. 163

    Dubyasux spews:

    D @ 152

    I’m not forgetting that part, but damn, they think torturing Iraqis is so much fun they forgot all about the government part.

  125. 164

    Dubyasux spews:

    D @ 147 re: manhole covers

    Aren’t most of them bolted down? They must be bolted down — or the Republicans would steal them.

  126. 165

    Dubyasux spews:

    This ranting about people throwing manhole covers off rooftops at cops and national guardsmen is bullshit. Anybody who got hit by a manhole cover dropped off a building would be killed. There were no news reports of anybody getting killed during WTO, much less any cops or guardsmen, so you know it’s bullshit. My, my, the stuff these rightys make up. They have such hyperactive imaginations. Must be a Ritalin hangover from their youth.

  127. 166

    DamnageD spews:

    just goes to show, the BS is stacked pretty high. But lets have a bit of fun with this one shall we?

    Prove your case! If this indead happen, thers sure to be coverage SOMEWHERE about it. Poliece blotter, news clipping, picture, anything…come on..I double dog dare ya!

    but this is not just for the guardsman. nooo lets let anybody get envolved. lets see proof.

  128. 167

    Dubyasux spews:

    Pet Libs @ 148

    Holy shit, it takes Pet Libs almost 5,000 words to complain about my calling prr a “Nazi”? Does anybody know a cure for diarrhea of the keyboard? Somebody dump Pepto on it, which probably won’t cure PL’s diarrhea, but it might fuck up his keyboard long enough to give us a break from his drivel.

  129. 168

    Dubyasux spews:

    148 (continued)

    I don’t think Einstein needed that much space of his General Theory of Relativity. Goldy’s gonna need a bigge server if this continues.

  130. 169

    dj spews:

    Dubyasux @ 165

    Indeed, the manhole cover business is crap. There may have been a manhole cover shoved through a store front window, but not off a building. The anarchists were trying to get attention, not trying to murder people.

  131. 173

    Dubyasux spews:

    dj @ 171

    Thanks a lot! I don’t see our pet neo-nazi wannabe here anymore. (Now THERE’S an example of pet excrement. Wonder what kind of pet he was excreted from? Pet snake? Pet cockroach? Pet slug?) Must be past his beddy-bye time. His mommy takes away his computer if he hasn’t finished his homework by 9 PM.

  132. 174

    jpgee spews:

    I wonder why PRR was not in Olympia yesterday shooting those damn liberal activists taunting our legislatures……OMG, now I understand, they were repugs…….so they are ‘ok’

  133. 175

    jpgee spews:

    Dubyasux @ 163 That is the theocon way. Torture, maim, kill, deform, all in the name of your own personal religiou/political agenda. That makes the Theocons feel self fulfilled….like oldstale wine, av, prr etc

  134. 176

    angryvoter spews:

    I never said anyone was killed. I said manhole covers were tossed, and they were. You seem to think that if you beleive something is so, it must be. My theory is that your superiority complex is actually a deep seated doubt of self worth due to a lack of logical reasoning ability. You hide behind the facade of a “cause” without really having a clue as to what you are talking about. When your attempt to blow smoke and scream is not recieved by thinking rather than “feeling” individuals you resort to playground behavior. You cannot even keep the facts straight between posts. The bottom line is, if you show up to riot and cause trouble you deserve to get tear gassed and tossed in jail. If you show up to peacably protest, have at it, this is a great country.

  135. 178

    angryvoter spews:

    Where the innocent people convicted of a crime? If not, then the system worked. If so, they better get bust with the appeals. You write as though D’s would never consider squelching free speech. Wrong answer. This year, Vancouver USA, holding a Dino Rossi sign at the train station waiting for Gregoire I was pushed to the ground, kicked and spit on by union thugs who then told me to “get the fuck outta here”. I then informed them it was a free country and they could go fuck themself if they didnt like it. Again, I was pushed down and kicked several times. Three High School girls holding Nethercutt signs were accosted and pushed around as well. The left is so tolerant. If you dont beleive it, do research on the CBS affilate in Portland, they covered it.

  136. 179

    dj spews:

    Angryvoter @ 176

    “I never said anyone was killed. I said manhole covers were tossed, and they were.”

    Dude, you said manhole covers were tossed off buildings. Didn’t happen!

    “The bottom line is, if you show up to riot and cause trouble you deserve to get tear gassed and tossed in jail. If you show up to peacably protest, have at it, this is a great country.”

    Hey, we have common ground here. Although I would say that if you show up to riot and cause trouble, shame on you. If you actually riot and break the law, you should be arrested and tried for your crimes.

    Amen on the “peacably protest” part. I hope you share my outrage when peaceful protesters are arrested and the video evidence used by prosecuters is edited! This is Big Brother shit writ large.

    And I hope you will agree that we should have zero tolerance for using the power vested in police for the benefit of a particular political party. The seeds of fascism are thusly sown.

  137. 180

    angryvoter spews:

    Yes, manhole covers were tossed off buildings, I was there, I saw it.

    And yes I do agree on the other…

  138. 181

    Dubyasux spews:

    AV @ 176

    The problem with your argument is that most of the people who got tear gassed and tossed in jail were NOT the ones who showed up to riot and cause trouble, but the ones who were there legally to peacefully exercise their First Amendment rights. The problem with you is that you see nothing wrong with that.

  139. 182

    dj spews:

    angryvoter @ 180

    Pullleezzze. LexisNexis turns up zero reports of a manhole cover being tossed off a building, let alone more than one manhole covers being tossed.

    I admit, the idea doesn’t defy the laws of physics, but damn close–those mothers are heavy. It is conceivable that some people overcame numerous hurdles to get a manhole cover onto a roof and then dropped it off the edge of the building (although I am extremely skeptical about even this possibility). But, “toss”??? With the intent of hitting people??? No way. Somebody threw a frisbee at you, dude.

  140. 183

    Dubyasux spews:

    AV @ 178

    No, you should not be physically attacked for holding up a Rossi sign, but I wonder if you aren’t leaving out part of the story. Normally the opposing partisans stay with their own groups, and the police (if present) keep them on opposite sides of the street; so my question is, what were you doing in the midst of those “union thugs”? Did you cross the street looking for trouble, and are you now complaining because you found it? On the other hand, if you were not trolling and were attacked simply for having your Rossi sign, I would support prosecuting the people who assaulted you. Strict enforcement of the law on both sides is needed to keep passions under control or people will get hurt. I recall seeing on TV a Kerry supporter punch a Republican at a rally in Everett, and he was immediately arrested and hauled away. In my opinion, jail is a good place for him. There is no place for violence in political campaigning or public debate.

  141. 184

    angryvoter spews:

    Dj @ 182,

    Gosh if it wasnt reported on, it must not have ever happened, because the press reports everything. Since lexis has every event in histroy recorded in their database, you must be right. Want to buy the narrows bridge? I am selling toll rights, today only.

    Dubya @ 183

    I wasnt looking for trouble, just presenting an alternative point of view in my own space, no different than the scope of this post. But, I think we have found a topic to agree upon, political violence has no place in American elections, regardless of who commits the act, Republicans, Democrats, Greens, Libertarians, Commies, Workers party or otherwise.

  142. 187

    angryvoter spews:

    Again Diggin, I am addressing the “scope creep” of your posts and responding to playgroud behavior in jest. Do you have nothing to offer but insults and innuendo?

    And Dj thinks that if anything in history isnt in Lexis or wasnt on NPR, it must have not happened. Any takers on the toll rights to the Narrows bridge?

  143. 188

    Diggindude spews:

    I find it somewhat confusing, you passionately defend the right to beat an unruly protestor, then threaten another with injury, for disagreeing with your slant.
    Just observing a bit, myself.

  144. 189

    angryvoter spews:

    Again, you selectively twist facts and cannot keep them straight from your opinion.

    But I must call it now, game set and match. You truly do not know how to stay on message. This post started out as a bash on GW and NYC policies on protests. However, with a little prodding in a different direction, the discourse was shifted to liberals throwing molotovs at WTO. Hence, your A.D.D. is shining through. How do you expect to win the war when you do not even know what battle you are fighting? Game over for this post.

  145. 190

    Chuck spews:

    Dubyasux@152
    No money in shooting them, Roy is famous for fleecing people out of their money, guilty or not. I learned by watching, they havent burned me…yet.

  146. 191

    Diggindude spews:

    Again, you selectively twist facts and cannot keep them straight from your opinion.

    Comment by angryvoter

    WTF?
    It started out with police brutality, dipshit, and then you came in with your stupid manhole lids on rooftops shit.
    I tell you what, you carry just “ONE” manhole lid to a rooftop, and i’ll believe your bullshit story.