Perspective…

Over 20,000 are reported dead, and 45,000 injured in yesterday’s 7.7 magnitude earthquake in Pakistan… and the toll will likely go much higher.

Meanwhile, Avian Flu is spreading to Europe with outbreaks reported in flocks in Turkey and Romania. The jump to human-to-human transmission is considered imminent, and the World Health Organization estimates a pandemic could kill over 150 million people.

And oh yeah… there is virtually unanimous consensus in the scientific community (outside the Bush administration) that global warming is real, that it is caused by human activity, and that the consequences could be absolutely devastating… flooding coastlines, disrupting weather patterns, and causing widespread famine and mass extinctions.

So… um… I guess I’ll just spend the day watching football.

Comments

  1. 4

    Green Thumb spews:

    Thanks for linking to Sandi Doughton’s global warming article. Doughton does a particularly good job of shedding light on the propaganda campaign by the fossil fuel industry to sow doubt and confusion about climate change science.

    Need some good news? The Pacific Northwest is fast becoming a beacon of hope for the rest of the nation regarding global warming activism. Check out the work of Olympia-based Climate Solutions (http://www.climatesolutions.org/) and the Seattle-based Northwest Environment Watch (http://www.northwestwatch.org/).

    In addition, the cities of Portland (http://www.sustainableportland.org/) and Seattle (http://www.seattle.gov/environment/default.htm) have some of the most advanced global warming programs in the nation.

    Meanwhile, investigative reporter Ross Gelbspan argues in his recent book, “Boiling Point,” that the Bush administration’s global warming policies are so bad that they represent crimes against humanity (http://www.heatisonline.org/).

    Remember, global warming isn’t a temporary event like an earthquake or a flu epidemic. If all of our SUV driving melts the polar ice caps, that imposes permanent and irreversible harm on our children and grandchildren. Talk about “family values”!

  2. 5

    Dan B spews:

    Football? What an awful waste of time! Proof we have too much money!

    I hope you are at least drinking as well…

  3. 6

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    I love the headline: The Truth about Global Warming. If I want “The Truth” about something, the Seattle Times is most certainly NOT the place I would go to get it.

    LMSM is by definition not the place to get anything even resembling the truth.

  4. 8

    Dan B spews:

    @4:

    ““Boiling Point,” that the Bush administration’s global warming policies are so bad that they represent crimes against humanity ”

    Wouldn’t it be awesome if the dirty SOB went to Europe and got arrested… Just imagine the 82nd dropping in to the Hague to try to get the bastard back…

  5. 9

    For the Clueless spews:

    Hey MTR:

    I’m really enjoying reading Brad Hicks.

    The money quote, tailor made for you, MTR:

    The Republicans have long been the party that believes that the poor are poor because they deserve to be poor. They believe, and teach, write, and legislate, and mandate that the textbooks say that if any American is poor, it is his own fault for not doing what it takes to become rich. As I’ve written before, Ronald Reagan elevated the hating of poor people to an artform: Ronald Reagan taught an entire generation of Americans that it is morally acceptable to hate the poor. And as I showed you from the Christian scriptures themselves yesterday, then if the Bible is any guide, anybody who has learned that lesson, and acted on that belief, and has since died … for them it is too late. On Judgement Day, they will be cast into the fires of Hell by an angry God, and in those fires they will burn for all eternity.

    Get religion, MTR. You’re riding your luxury SUV straight to the hothouse downstairs.

  6. 10

    For the Clueless spews:

    I LOVE THIS GUY!

    But there’s a catch. There’s always a catch. In this case, the catch must have been this. The traditional Republican party is the party of Satan himself, and thereby unpalatable to nearly all of the 90% or more of the US public that self-identified as Christian. I am not exaggerating here, not one tiny little bit. (Nor am I alone in this. Remember, I’ve met and done volunteer work alongside Dr. Michael Aquino, the founder of the largest Satanic church in the world, and you have never met a more staunch Republican in your life. Nor did he make any bones about why: he is a Republican Party loyalist because the Republican Party stands in total opposition to the Christian scriptures.) Throughout the gospels, take everything that Jesus said. Now reverse each and every statement. Each and every one of those reversals is a traditional plank of the Republican party platform. Republicans urge people to work hard, earn as much money as possible, and save it. Jesus said, “Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” (Matthew 6:19-21) Republicans are the party of the arms manufacturers. Jesus said “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.” (Matthew 5:9) Republicans believe that how much money a person earns or has is a good measure of that person’s worth. Jesus said, “No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” (Luke 16:13) If a rich person comes to the Republicans and asks “what shall I do with my life?” they tell him to save his wealth, invest it in his own business and in the businesses of other wealthy people, keep his costs (including labor) as low as possible, in order to sell as many goods at as low a price as possible, and thereby enrich the world. When a rich person came to Jesus and asked him what he should do with is life, here’s what actually happened (Luke 18:18-25):

    And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

    Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

  7. 11

    spyder spews:

    Dr Aquino??? you of course refer to Lt Col Aquino correct? formerly of the Special Operations group of the Pentagon and confidant of Bush the first’s handpicked group of intel agents used to work around those silly constitutional issues about not engaging in various money laundering, missle smuggling, guerrilla war backing, terrorist organizing, torture specializing operatives???? that Aquino…

    yes i thought so

  8. 14

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Clueless – I don’t hate the poor. I’m just SAFT of them thinking that they’re “entitled” to make me pay for their lifetime of bad choices. They’re free to do whatever they want. I just don’t want to pay for them. Live and let live right?

    There’s a article in today’s Seattle Times about changing home interest mortgage deduction to generate more tax revenues. I’ve got a better idea: Since the bottom 50% of people only pay 4% of total fed taxes, how ’bout we make them pay their fair share? If they were forced to pay just 15% income tax, fed revenue problem would be solved. So explain to me Mr. Moral Superiority why the poor should get a free ride.

  9. 15

    Green Thumb spews:

    Hey, Mark the Redneck, since you’re talking about free rides, explain this: By what rights should the U.S. be able to produce 25 percent of the world’s greenhouse gases when it has only 5 percent of its population?

    This is not an academic question. The population of the island nation of Tuvalu is already started to relocate to New Zealand because rising sea levels are inundating their ground water supplies. These folks are losing their homeland permanently — in no small part because the world’s leading greenhouse gas producer, the U.S., refuses to take responsibility for reducing its emissions.

    If you were a Tuvalian I suspect you’d be frothing in indignant rage. Someday your grandkids will be too. How will you explain your behavior?

  10. 16

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Hey Goldy – Apparently you didn’t get the memo. Let me help.

    Left wing blogs are supposed to be sounding the alarm about “The Church Lady” nominated for Supreme Court. You’re supposed to be worried about whether a “constructionist” could undermine American liberties. (Please explain that if you could please.) You should also use the word “theocracy” as often as possible.

    Game’s over. Time to go back to work and do your job.

    You’re welcome.

  11. 17

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Thumb – Despire Algore’s impressive contributions in the field of network technology, he is not a scientist. His idea that the internal combustion engine is going to kill us is complete bullshit. So put down the kool aid, and don’t try to bullshit me with “facts” that aren’t.

    Honest scientists will admit that the earth goes through natural warming and cooling cycles. They’re working on a new theory which seems to suggest that The Sun may influence temperature here on earth.

    So go back and rework your hypothesis. Get back to me when you have something coherent.

  12. 18

    klake@ spews:

    Remember, global warming isn’t a temporary event like an earthquake or a flu epidemic. If all of our SUV driving melts the polar ice caps, that imposes permanent and irreversible harm on our children and grandchildren. Talk about “family values”!

    Comment by Green Thumb— 10/9/05 @ 12:06 pm

    Green Thumb where should we start with global warming? King county, North Bend, Gold Bar, or Seattle would be the first start? Which area produces the most hot air and consumes the most engery, flushs the most sewage down the line, drives the most automobiles, and has the largest freeways used as parking lots? Now which party runs that part of the world? No it’s not G. Bush, but he can peform miracles, but God didn’t enpower that much. So Green Thumb what is the real answer to this big mess you got us in now? You vote for the monorail and then you killed the Project. You started the light by building the stations without rail in place. When that project fails you now have places for the Homeless. You build a convention hall over the freeway that has two lane coming and going, with no hope of wideing the freeway. You repaired the Alaska Way Viaduct after an earthquake that should have been torn down. You have the worst streets in the state and you expect folks East of the mountains to provide the money to fix your poor infarstructure. Not but not least your schools resemble that of third world country and you are prouded of it. Now you send your homeless to the Eastside beacuse you are hartless and cruel when you have homes in Seattle and not tents. You blame everyone else for your short comings rather than deal with reality.

  13. 19

    For the Clueless spews:

    MTR – You don’t make any sense at all. A child born into poverty didn’t choose poverty. It’s in your best interest that a child born poor has a fair shot at joining the middle class. It’s pretty expensive to house a prisoner, but I bet you’re all to happy to foot the bill for more prisons. No scratch that. Once the bill comes due for neglect of the poor, you’ll elect a clown like Bush or Rossi who’ll make sure someone else will pay.

    The poor may not pay much if any Federal tax but they pay sales tax and other taxes indirectly like property tax through rent. In this state, the poor pay a greater share of their income than the rich. That’s completely unfair. It keeps the poor poor.

    Public policy that gives the poor a fair shot at attaining the middle class is supposedly what makes America unique in the world. That isn’t helped by laying greater tax burdens on the poorest so you can afford more luxuries. If more people join the middle class that can help you pardner. They can then pay taxes. The more who can then pay might then reduce your tax burden. They just might also buy more of what you produce or they may also compete for your position of privilege – afraid of the competition?

    The federal taxes you pay, pay to save your butt from the evil terrarists and that mustachioed WMD-slinging boogeyman Saddam (yeah right). Aren’t you getting good value for your money now that the R’s are in charge, smart guy? Bush even gave you a tax cut. And you’re still scared of getting on the ferry and you moan about your tax bill?

    Remember what the Bible says, smart guy, a rich man has as much chance of going to heaven as a camel does going through the eye of a needle. A man cannot serve two masters, God and Mammon. Eternity is a long time to spend with that socialist in a red suit downstairs. He’s an equal opportunity soul roaster.

  14. 20

    spews:

    One could almost say that God doesn’t much like Bin Laden either. Perhaps he was the target of the earthquake, much like Rita was bearing down on Crawford, TX (or trying).

  15. 21

    Green Thumb spews:

    You are building a straw man, Mark @ 16: I didn’t even mention Algore. I instead made reference to The Seattle Times article cited by Goldy, which does a nice job of summarizing the scientific consensus on global warming. To reject that consensus is to reject the scientific method itself.

    Come on, Mark. Climb out on that limb. Trot out some junk scientific finding that was funded by the fossil fuel industry. Or simply close your eyes to the flurry of recent research, e.g., as printed in top-notch journals such as Science.

    The farther out on that limb you climb, the less seriously HA readers will take you. There is a point where every Big Lie will collapse of its own weight.

  16. 22

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Some of the poor deserve to be poor, but some of the poor are poor because of selfish greedy bastards like MTR.

  17. 23

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Fuck you rabbit. How the fuck do I make people poor. Do I block the door of the schoolhouse? Do I force the girlz legs open so they can get knocked up? Do I put a gun in their hands and force them to commit crimes? Tell me asshole.

  18. 24

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Thumb@21 – There is no “consensus”. And you and goldy and the LMSM can’t make it so no matter how much you wish it were true. You can keep saying it and saying it, but that doesn’t make it true. You might fool the foolish, but that doesn’t make it fact.

    Algore’s the one who put the idea in your head about SUVs and global warming. And you idiots just picked it up and mindlessly repeat it.

    So you think it’s “junk science” to suggest that the earth goes through normal heating and cooling cycles? You think it’s junk science that the sun has something to do with global temperatures?

    Explain to me why scientists think there is global warming on every other planet in the solar system. Are there SUVs on Mars?

  19. 25

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Clueless @ 19 – Don’t quote Bible to me. You obviously don’t understand it. You left one key word out of the camel quote that changes it completely. Go look it up and get back to me.

    Regarding children born into poverty. The more we subsidize the single mothers who breed indiscriminately, the bigger the problem gets. It’s unsustainable. There must be consequences for choices, and the more the consequences are insulated, the more bad choices the rest of us have to bear. Time for some tough love.

    The poor pay nowhere near their “fair share”. Only 4% of total dollars come from lower half. The should pay at least a quarter.

  20. 26

    For the Clueless spews:

    MTR – You make people poor by voting and shilling for Republicans who have always been for reaming the poor and the middle class. You identify intensely with them and you don’t even bother to hide that you’re just repeating their talking points. Some of them I heard back in the seventies.

    Read Brad’s thoughts on your hero Ronzo.

  21. 27

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Clueless – “Educate” me. How exactly do R policies “ream” the poor. Name those policies explicitly. Name them for me and explain how what we do hurts the poor. I’m waiting…

  22. 28

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Clueless – Educate yourself. Look up fed tax revenues during President Reagan’s term. Report the numbers to us for every year from 1981 and 1989. Then explain to us the effect of tax cuts.

    Once you understand that tax RATE decreases INCREASE federal revenue, then ask yourself where it all went. Look at military and social spending. Then ask yourself if ending the Cold War and freeing millions of people from communism was worth it. Then ask yourself if democrat social programs might possibly have been part of the deficit problem.

    So don’t send me links to some bullshit web page that lies about the greatest president of the 20th century. I take pleasure in shoving it up your ass.

  23. 29

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    HA Poll –

    This year has seen unprecedented events in nature. There was the tsunami. Then we had Katrina. Now there’s a big earthquake. The death toll and economic damages are nearly incalculable.

    How many of you HAs attribute these events to President Bush. I’m sure most of you believe Katrina was his fault because he didn’t sign Kyoto and he wanted a hurricane because he hates black people. I’m wondering if you HAs think there’s a link between the war on terror and the tsunami or the earthquake.

    Just wondering…

  24. 30

    Chimp Patrol spews:

    There is really a link between the war on terror and absolute inbread idiots like MTR. God, man, get a grip on yourself and seek redemption before its too late for you. (sorry assed bigotted asshole)

  25. 31

    righton spews:

    Libs; so how (in the heck) is Bush causing natural disaster?

    that’s almost as stupid as you nazi comparisons…

    Maybe we’ll be proven wrong on global warming, but intermingling avian flu into this post, is pretty pathetic. What does W have to do with chinese living like animals with their ducks?

  26. 32

    For the Clueless spews:

    Redneck –

    Look at 10. According to what Jesus said, towing the Republican line means you’re going straight to hell unless you change your ways before you die.

    Current Republican policies will bankrupt the government. The rich don’t want to pay. They receive the most benefits from what this country has to give and could care less. Clinton’s taxes were completely reasonable compared to what they were under Eisenhower. The Republicans want to “starve the beast” so they run deficits. That means declining public education, both K-12 and higher, declining infrastructure and less funding for job training, health care and other programs that people need.

    The R’s have let the economy go to hell. Millions of living wage jobs have left this country and the jobs that have replaced them are much lower paying and there’s not enough of them to go around. The country has been running current account deficits in trade forever. That’s like living off a credit card. How long can that continue? Bush would rather be the “war” president for a war of choice. On the economy he’s AWOL.

    When the economic ship runs aground, I wouldn’t put it past Bush to declare martial law – anything to keep the rich from paying higher taxes. I hear he’s still determined to pass another “tax reform”. More cuts for you Redneck. Don’t you love it?

    About your hero RONZO the nap happy actor president: After the first tax cut in 81, how many times did RONZO RAISE TAXES?

    FIVE TIMES. Let me repeat. FIVE TIMES. Let me repeat. FIVE TIMES.

    FOUR of those FIVE times were between ’82 to ’84!!!

    Bottom line: Bush is a “guns and butter” president. He has waged a war of choice while asking no sacrifice of the American people . Who else in recent history fits that description and what happened to the country economically after that?

  27. 33

    For the Clueless spews:

    Redneck – my answer to you got ate up by the filter. Why did I bother?

    Anyway I feel better that you wingnuts, according to the Bible, are all going to hell – literally – because you’ve seriously drunk the Republican Kool-Aid. I won’t even advise you to repent or change your ways. You all have proved by your actions here on HA that you fully deserve it!

    If you think I’m full of it ask yourselves this: why is Dr. Michael Aquino – a former Lt. Col and the leader of a Satanist Church, a staunch Republican? For an answer see 10 above.

  28. 34

    Dan B spews:

    Something real for you city folk… I just chased an enormous owl out of one of my very big maple / hemlock clusters. The fucker was easily big enough to fly off with a fat cat… Even a Republican cat!

    Seriously, there goes any Spotted Owls around here…

  29. 35

    headless lucy spews:

    re 14: Will you “give” them their “fair share” of property? Just think how that would increase revenues?

  30. 36

    John McDonald spews:

    Selling Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. If you can’t win hearts and minds through rational persuasion, I guess this is what you are left with.

  31. 37

    For the Clueless spews:

    If they were forced to pay just 15% income tax, fed revenue problem would be solved.

    You think a poor slob making minimum wage or around 10 grand a year should pay 1500 dollars to the feds in addition to any sales taxes or excise or property taxes passed through his rent.

    What kind of a monster are you?

    Tell you what, someone’s got to pay. We can’t live off the credit card forever. If you think you’re overtaxed, the corporations have been getting away with murder under Bush – many of them paying no tax or in some cases getting outright subsidies. How about they take up the poor man’s burden?

  32. 38

    headless lucy spews:

    Street crime is the equivalent of poor people who turn their anger outward. If a political leader can organize and harness that anger there is no amount of money or force that can stop it. Actually, just a work stoppage of one week would topple the whole system.

  33. 39

    headless lucy spews:

    Does anyone remember how well spontaneous sit-down strikes worked? One of the reasons they did work so well is that factory owners were afraid of damaging their equipment if they tried to kill the strikers.

  34. 40

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Lunatic can rationalize any kind of criminal behavior….if it benefits his “cause”….whatever that is (still can’t figure it out).
    Just seems like lunatic looney is one angry SOB.
    His headstone will read:
    Here lies Lucy.
    Confused about his sexuality.
    Angry…but unsure as to why?
    Lucy died an angry man!

  35. 41

    klake@ spews:

    There is really a link between the war on terror and absolute inbread idiots like MTR. God, man, get a grip on yourself and seek redemption before its too late for you. (sorry assed bigotted asshole)

    Comment by Chimp Patrol— 10/9/05 @ 7:56 pm

    Hey Chimp Patrol what are you some kind of MONKEY out of hell, we need more info on what you are talking about, none of that chirping like a seal that just got hit the head with a bat. That Redneck you are talking to has more going for him that that wart on your dumb ass. You want to inform everyone on the WAR on Terror, please bring it on, but whatch out for that Wabbit in left field for he knows more than he let’s on. Did your Socialest friends give you a free pass to insult everyone on this web site? You can’t complete with Headless Lucy after she seen her therapist on the Eastside and visit her friends at tent city. You know she loves those rides over to the Eastside on that lightrail. God I like the smell of napalm in the morning. You know Wabbit you have been their. God Bless, you to Headless Lucy

  36. 42

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Clueless – You have a fundamental misunderstanding of Christianity. Go tell a pastor about “good people” and “bad people”, and how the people you think are bad are going to hell. It’ll take the pastor a couple of hours to explain the basics. Do it. You’ll feel better.

  37. 43

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Clueless – list 5 corporations who pay zero tax. Not your brother’s sham corporation, but real ones with employees. Name 5 that get subsidies. Tell me how many of my tax dollars go to them just to prop them up.

    I didn’t think so…

  38. 44

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Lucy @ 35 – Dunno why I even bother… but I gotta explore the disease. What in your definition is “property”? How much is the “fair share” that the noble pooooor should get?

    I can’t wait to hear your answer.

  39. 45

    fire_one spews:

    MTR @ 43 You have got to be shitting me! Only 5? Too easy! These guys get subsidies: Boeing (right here in Seattle – billions over the years in tax breaks) Daimler-Chrysler for a new plant in Ohio, Wal-Mart in state tax breaks all across the US, Alaska Timber (not to mention Simpson) and the list goes on and on…

    What, you live in a cave?

  40. 46

    fire_one spews:

    … then there are the Pharmaceuticals and the Energy companies. I haven’t even started on those. The problem is, I call them subsidies and you call them incentives. I am right, and you are wrong.

  41. 47

    For the Clueless spews:

    Here ya go redneck.

    During the boom years of 1996 to 2000 – 61% of corporations paid zero income tax.

    Here’s another analysis.

    Here’s five companies that paid less than zero taxes in 1998 (in millions):

    Weyerhauser -9.5
    Pfizer -197.2
    J.P. Morgan -62.3
    Saks -7.9
    Ryder -16.4

    There were many, many more than that.

  42. 48

    klake@ spews:

    Does anyone remember how well spontaneous sit-down strikes worked? One of the reasons they did work so well is that factory owners were afraid of damaging their equipment if they tried to kill the strikers.

    Comment by headless lucy— 10/9/05 @ 10:06 pm

    Headles Lucy; There isn’t a such thing as Spontaneous Sit-down Strikes, the stage is set by both parties before it ever happens.
    Now day the equipment is far remove from what going on that it does not count.

    Street crime is the equivalent of poor people who turn their anger outward. If a political leader can organize and harness that anger there is no amount of money or force that can stop it. Actually, just a work stoppage of one week would topple the whole system.

    Comment by headless lucy— 10/9/05 @ 10:03 pm

    You forgot the National Guard and they do carry bullits in their rifles and they are not what Hollywood portrays them to be. Crime is a different story, and anger has nothing to do with it. Surival of the worst people in your back yard, has to do with it, and don’t included the poor for you probably never was poor. Work stoppage is an idoit’s solution to the problem. Step out of your box,get better info, and the results will be a whole lot better

  43. 49

    For the Clueless spews:

    Redneck – Forgot to mention that corporations are even worse tax dodgers at the state and local level. They go into it at the CTJ website.

    Re: Christianity. What about Aquino redneck? A former high-ranking military officer who worships Satan and thinks Republicans are Satan’s gift to world because the R’s core principles are completely the opposite of Jesus’ teachings. What about him?

    You don’t try to counter any of the arguments I presented in 10 but I shouldn’t expect you to – you usually just answer with more talking points, propaganda and ask people to do stuff to avoid admitting you’re wrong.

  44. 50

    headless lucy spews:

    re 44: In the grand scheme of things, you’re one of them. That’s what gets me about your insularity to your own reality. Is your “fortune” going to take care of the next ten generations of Rednecks, or will you die still owing money to the bank. What a nitwit you are!

  45. 51

    klake@ spews:

    Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

    Comment by For the Clueless— 10/9/05 @ 2:11 pm

    Clueless we wil follow your example on this subject since you are now RICH. Define rich and exclude money? Now you are really poor, because you don’t understand what’s it like to be really rich.

  46. 52

    For the Clueless spews:

    klake – your comments are mostly worthless. You’re going to have to do better than just taking pot shots at people. You’re going to have to argue and actually defend your point of view.

    yeah, like that will ever happen.

  47. 53

    headless lucy spews:

    re 48: I know more about the labor movement in America than 99.9 percent of the population. Take my word for it, sitdown strikes were spontaneous. That’s why organized unions hated them. Neither management nor labor had control. The workers themselves did. Organized Labor got some interesting concessions in 1937 because of the fear generated in management by the SPONTANEOUS sitdown strikes.

  48. 54

    klake@ spews:

    klake – your comments are mostly worthless. You’re going to have to do better than just taking pot shots at people. You’re going to have to argue and actually defend your point of view.

    yeah, like that will ever happen.

    Comment by For the Clueless— 10/9/05 @ 10:59 pm
    Clueless; that is the pot shot that a gay person would give if you disagree with them. If you are not gay and what you say doesn’t count because you don’t understand us. Come on do you want everyone to sound like Ted Kenndy?

  49. 55

    klake@ spews:

    The workers themselves did. Organized Labor got some interesting concessions in 1937 because of the fear generated in management by the SPONTANEOUS sitdown strikes.

    Comment by headless lucy— 10/9/05 @ 11:01 pm

    Lucy this is not 1937 and it doesn’t work today and I’m a Shop Steward that has to deal with poorly inform people like you.

  50. 56

    zip spews:

    Hey clueless 49,
    What exactly is your point about the corps paying no taxes? The congress that wrote the tax laws was elected by you and me. You’re probably a McDermott Murray and Cantwell fan. Why don’t you tell us how much they’ve accomplished towards your tax policy goals (whatever they are).

    So does your rant mean you’re voting against Sims because of his state tax plan? He put the B&O tax (which is the only corp tax in this state) to zero. Maybe you should vote for Irons you whiner.

  51. 57

    For the Clueless spews:

    Zip – Your partner in crime, Mark the Redneck, thinks a person who makes 10 grand a year should pay 1500 to the federal goverment because he (MTR) believed he is overtaxed and is tired of paying fo r their schooling and whatnot.

    The entire Democrat delegation in this state is in the minority and a deep dark minority it is with people like money-launderer Hammer-time and Inside-Trader Frist runnning things. Also remember Bush I raised taxes and you zero tax ghouls called him a traitor then Clinton raised taxes and you called him all kinds of names and said the economy was going to tank.

    What happened after that?

  52. 58

    zip spews:

    Hay clueless,

    You trotted out some stats from 1998, WTF? From 1998-2000 Murray and Cantwell and of course Bill Clinton could certainly have done something about whatever your problem is so quit your whining, you voted them in.

    If you think our tax system is Bush’s fault you are mistaken.

  53. 59

    For the Clueless spews:

    Zip – to more directly answer your question, I’ll first pose a question of my own. What do you think is fair?

    What I think is fair is that everyone of sufficient means should pay who receives benefit from government and government programs. In that regard I’m opposed to the corporate taxation portion of the Sims plan because the corps get to skate. I believe they have a stake in the well-being of society and they should contribute.

    However a compassionate society takes care of the truly needy and therefore the B&O gross income exemption should be quadrupled. Small businesses employ most of the people and could use the break.

    I’m going to vote for Ron Sims and David Irons is going to lose – you ghoul.

  54. 60

    zip spews:

    clueless

    The B & O tax is equivalent to an 11% income tax on the business owner. There is no way to escape paying it. So there is no unfairness by your criteria.

    What I think is fair is for employers to get some breaks for risking their personal assets in order to provide jobs by owning/running a business. Any small business eligible for the exemption under either the current system or your proposed exemption quadrupling has zero employees (other than the owner) so why bother.

  55. 61

    Puddybud spews:

    Cluelessness: Google +Bill +Frist +Money +Laundering and see when the last article on this was written? None recently. If this is such a big story like it seems to be with animal hind parts LEFTIST PINHEADS woundn’t your friends in the Leftist MSM be playing this up. Maybe there is something else going on that the Fed investigators are finding out. Maybe some sell orders were placed in April like Frist first announced. Hey if Frist broke the law fry his ass too. I thought in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. In Commie Lib land you are guilty upon MSM speculation. But you commie libs act just like Josef Stalin from the 1930-1950s. You throw the book and convict someone when they haven’t gone to trial. You want them to disappear. From now on you are Stalin’s Useful Idiots. Cluelessness, go back and live your karma reading about depressing existentialism from your favorite author antichrist and playwright Friedrich Nietzsche.

  56. 62

    Curtis Love spews:

    Mark the Redneck
    This one’s on global warming…

    Natural cycles? Solar activity? You really SHOULD read the SeaTimes articles on this. It’s pretty good science reporting, and they take on the common arguements against such as those to which you are clinging.

    There is no “consensus”.
    “…1995 was the hottest year on record until it was eclipsed by 1997 — then 1998, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004…The result [of all their research] is a convergence of opinion rarely seen in a profession where attacking each other’s work is part of the process. Every major scientific body to examine the evidence has come to the same conclusion: The planet is getting hotter; man is to blame; and it’s going to get worse.”

    “”…the 100-nation Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)…issues voluminous reports reviewed by more than 2,000 scientists and every member government, including the United States. The early reports reflected the squishy state of the science, but by 2001, the conclusion was unequivocal: “There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities.” Stunned by the strong language, the Bush administration asked the prestigious National Academy of Sciences to evaluate the international group’s work. [The panel] assured the president the IPCC wasn’t exaggerating.”

    Honest scientists will admit that the earth goes through natural warming and cooling cycles.
    Yes, but the fact that those ccyles have always existed does not mean that they’re are at the root of what’s happening now. And i quote:
    “Earth’s climate has swung from steamy to icy many times in the past, but scientists believe they know what triggered many of those fluctuations. Erupting volcanoes and slow ocean upwelling release carbon dioxide, which leads to warming. Mountain uplifting and continental drift expose new rock, which absorbs carbon dioxide and causes cooling. Periodic wobbles in the planet’s orbit reduce sunlight and set off a feedback loop that results in ice ages. All of those shifts happened over tens of thousands of years — and science shows none of them is happening now. Instead, atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide are increasing at a rate that precisely tracks man’s automotive and industrial emissions. “The process is 1,000 times faster than nature can do it,” Battisti said.”

    They’re working on a new theory which seems to suggest that The Sun may influence temperature here on earth.
    Here you go. ”

    You’ll probably go find other objections from various inductry-funded sites. I’ll deal with them now, or rather, the Times will:
    Urban heat islands
    Troposhere not hot enough?

  57. 63

    Curtis Love spews:

    Mark the Redneck
    This one’s on global warming…in 2 parts: part 1

    Natural cycles? Solar activity? You really SHOULD read the SeaTimes articles on this. It’s pretty good science reporting, and they take on the common arguements against such as those to which you are clinging.

    There is no “consensus”.
    “…1995 was the hottest year on record until it was eclipsed by 1997 — then 1998, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004…The result [of all their research] is a convergence of opinion rarely seen in a profession where attacking each other’s work is part of the process. Every major scientific body to examine the evidence has come to the same conclusion: The planet is getting hotter; man is to blame; and it’s going to get worse.”

    “”…the 100-nation Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)…issues voluminous reports reviewed by more than 2,000 scientists and every member government, including the United States. The early reports reflected the squishy state of the science, but by 2001, the conclusion was unequivocal: “There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities.” Stunned by the strong language, the Bush administration asked the prestigious National Academy of Sciences to evaluate the international group’s work. [The panel] assured the president the IPCC wasn’t exaggerating.”

  58. 64

    Curtis Love spews:

    Mark the Redneck
    This one’s on global warming…in 2 parts: part 2

    Honest scientists will admit that the earth goes through natural warming and cooling cycles.
    Yes, but the fact that those ccyles have always existed does not mean that they’re are at the root of what’s happening now. And i quote:
    “Earth’s climate has swung from steamy to icy many times in the past, but scientists believe they know what triggered many of those fluctuations. Erupting volcanoes and slow ocean upwelling release carbon dioxide, which leads to warming. Mountain uplifting and continental drift expose new rock, which absorbs carbon dioxide and causes cooling. Periodic wobbles in the planet’s orbit reduce sunlight and set off a feedback loop that results in ice ages. All of those shifts happened over tens of thousands of years — and science shows none of them is happening now. Instead, atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide are increasing at a rate that precisely tracks man’s automotive and industrial emissions. “The process is 1,000 times faster than nature can do it,” Battisti said.”

    They’re working on a new theory which seems to suggest that The Sun may influence temperature here on earth.
    Here you go. ”

    You’ll probably go find other objections from various inductry-funded sites. I’ll deal with them now, or rather, the Times will:
    Urban heat islands
    Troposhere not hot enough?

  59. 65

    Curtis Love spews:

    Mark the Redneck
    This one’s on global warming…maybe 3 parts..par 2

    Honest scientists will admit that the earth goes through natural warming and cooling cycles.
    Yes, but the fact that those ccyles have always existed does not mean that they’re are at the root of what’s happening now. And i quote:
    “Earth’s climate has swung from steamy to icy many times in the past, but scientists believe they know what triggered many of those fluctuations. Erupting volcanoes and slow ocean upwelling release carbon dioxide, which leads to warming. Mountain uplifting and continental drift expose new rock, which absorbs carbon dioxide and causes cooling. Periodic wobbles in the planet’s orbit reduce sunlight and set off a feedback loop that results in ice ages. All of those shifts happened over tens of thousands of years — and science shows none of them is happening now. Instead, atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide are increasing at a rate that precisely tracks man’s automotive and industrial emissions. “The process is 1,000 times faster than nature can do it,” Battisti said.”

  60. 68

    Curtis Love spews:

    Mark the Redneck
    This one’s on global warming…part 3

    They’re working on a new theory which seems to suggest that The Sun may influence temperature here on earth.
    Here you go. I’ll give you a hint: it does NOT.

  61. 70

    headless lucy spews:

    klake: I know it’s not 1937. The actual mechanics of the concept would be different, but the concept would be the same. If all the lawyers and computer geeks went on strike for a week, nothing much would happen. If teachers,garbage men, cops , nurses, etc., went on strike for a week, the whole place would grind to a halt. Are you getting my drift? Sitdown strikes were anti organized unions.

  62. 71

    For the Clueless spews:

    Puddy Freep @ 61

    Again, I’ll steal from Mr. Cynical: You’re a funny little guy!!!

    IIRC, Frederich Nietzche never wrote a play! You’re thinking of Jean Paul Satre.

    What’s wrong Puddy Freep? Did you have too many beers with Dr. Michael Aquino at a Republican get-together? Did he slip you a mickey?

  63. 73

    Puddybud spews:

    So Cluelessness: THUS SPOKE ZARATHUSTRA by Friedrich Nietzsche is not a one person play? http://www.luminary.us/nz/zarathustra.html

    Trust me I know JP Satre – another existentialist jerk!!!

    If I am wrong I stand corrected but that’s what I learned. Hmmm…?

    Regarding Pat Robertson and his Christian Coalition, sorry racist Karma boy, not a member, never was and never will be. Not my style. I know you love to lump people under one umbrella but you dog doesn’t hunt.

  64. 74

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    CLueless – I figured you’d respond as you did. So let me splain the world to you. Tax breaks are NOT a subsidy. Think of it this way… if I decide NOT to rob you, have I done you a favor? No. So by letting a company keep more of their money, that is NOT a subsidy. You don’t seem to understand that it’s the company’s money, not the governments.

    Like most kookball libs, you also continue to lie about the Chrysler situation. The government did NOT “bail out” Chrysler. They guaranteed some loans that were paid back in full early with interest. Not one dime of taxpayer money every went to Chrysler. Zero. Zip. None.

    But get it through your thick head. Tax breaks are NOT the same thing as transferring cash from my pocket to a corporation.

  65. 75

    headless lucy spews:

    re 74: If a company has a government contract (public money) and then wheedles x-tra tax breaks for themselves then how is that NOT public cash-money in their pockets? Now that I’m familiar with the way righties obscure and twist the truth, it’s easier to un- twist it and present them with another truth to twist– which I will , of course, untwist, “world without end. Amen!”

  66. 76

    For the Clueless spews:

    MTR – What planet are you on? The gov doles out pork like there’s no tomorrow. In the last energy bill, the nuke industry got all kinds of breaks and R&D boondoggles – 13 billion dollars worth. Oil, gas and coal got even more.

    The truth is, is that the corps aren’t paying their fair share. No way no how. Corporate participation in the tax burden is at an all time low – and that’s by design – it’s the Republican strategy. The corps benefit from the country having a bloated military, judiciary, highway bills and whatnot – just like common folks do but they don’t want to help pay for any of it and they help elect Republicans to make damn sure of it.

    I didn’t say a damn thing about Chrysler. You’ve demonstrated in your comment history here what a kookball you are. You’ve swallowed the Republican Kool-Aid so much you don’t bother defending any of the specious claims – you just respond with more already debunked bullcrap.

  67. 77

    Dr. E spews:

    I have a utopian proposition to make.

    I would support letting conservatives withhold a percentage of thier federal taxes that would represent the percentage of government expenditure on programs they feel are wasteful, inefficient, unethical, etc., provided I (and by extension other progressives) could likewise withhold a percentage representing government expenditure we find similarly distasteful or useless.

    For instance, If a conservative thinks the Dept. of Education is useless and would be better replaced by the private sector, let him/her withhold the percentage of their tax that represents the government’s budgetary allocation for the DoE that fiscal year, say 7 – 9%, whatever it amounts to (let’s pretend like the government has to balance its budget as well). Bypass the voucher argument entirely — put the tax savings into private school (provided your income tax burden is high enough). If the offending governmental spending is some other social entitlement program, fine, deduct that money out instead. Consider it a measure civil disobedience, if you like.

    Progressives would then also withhold the percentage of their tax dollars that they feel are being irresponsibly spent. One might decide to withhold, say, 51% of one’s taxes that would represent governmental military spending — or perhaps just that percentage (including that which is disguised by supplemental allocations) being spent on Iraq.

    Now before you criticize me on the details (you work those out if you’re not self-employed), remeber this is symbolic: a form of civil disobedience. Think about it — it really is a symmetrical proposition: you get what you want, I get what I want. We both get the right to choose, and similarly can preserve the freedom of others to choose for themselves. I’ll protect your civil right to protest (call it an attempt to petition government for a redress of grievances) if you support mine.

  68. 78

    Puddybud spews:

    Oh Cluelessness, is THUS SPOKE ZARATHUSTRA a play or not? You love to politically correct everyone here, especially taking glee when you THINK you have me. So what is THUS SPOKE ZARATHUSTRA? Did he write this or you just not as well read as your sorry ass likes to claim? Sure is cluelessly quiet these last 5 hours!!!!

  69. 79

    NoWonder spews:

    Dr. E @ 77

    Good idea. You must realize, however, that the result would be a significant reduction in tax revenues. The Congress would be forced to restrict expenditures to the bare minimum. Reductions in defense preferred by many deductors would eventually be reinstated to some level where at least the shores could be defended.

    Your utopia is actually dreamed of by many conservatives and libertarians. Good luck.

  70. 80

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Lucy – Did you decide not to answer my question at 44. I gotta know how the lunatic mind works.

  71. 81

    NoWonder spews:

    Curtis Love @ Global Warming

    There are plenty of studies and reports on supression of publication by the Warming nazis that counter every source you provide. The truth is that no one knows anything for sure, and all of the computer predictions are faulty. They cannot even predict the conditions today with projections from history. There is even a growing concensus that reductions in air pollution over the last few decades is responsible for the warming. How ironic.

    Check some of these out:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....world.html

    http://www.climateaudit.org/index.php?p=183

    http://www.opendemocracy.net/d.....9-2490.jsp

    http://www.worldclimatereport.com/

    http://meteo.lcd.lu/globalwarming/

  72. 82

    JCH spews:

    George Bush caused the Krakatoa and Mt. Edna volcanoes to explode because Maxine Waters and Louis Farrakkan told me so!!!

  73. 83

    Donnageddon spews:

    Lord, Mark The Redneck Villiage Idiot is out in al his ignorant, befuddlingly obnoxious glory today! What a fucking pig.

    PuddyBud: THUS SPOKE ZARATHUSTRA is a philisophical treatise; it is not in any way shape or form a play. Now sit down, and contemplate your death.

    Have fun you heritical evil monger.

  74. 84

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Dr. E – The problem with your utopian solution is that you and others of your ilk don’t understand the true function of the federal government. The Constitution has gotten so fucked up by the Court and general government greed, that we now do things at the federal level that the founders never intended. That’s why the 10th amendment is there.

    You don’t want to do military, but that is probably the most important federal function. I don’t want to fund NPR or NEA or DOE because those things absolutely are not functions of a federal government.

    So until people understand what is supposed to be done and NOT supposed to be done by the feds, your utopian solution can go nowhere. And that will never happen because the country is full of fucking idiots like you.

  75. 85

    For the Clueless spews:

    Puddy Freep:

    Thus Spake Zarathustra is NOT a play to the best of my understanding. If you really believe it is then please indicate where and when it has been performed. I’m curious.

    Please excuse me for being away from my computer for an extended break.

    I’ve have answered your question now answer mine:

    Why is Dr. Michael Aquino – a former high ranking military officer and the leader of a Satanist Church, a staunch Republican?

  76. 86

    Donnageddon spews:

    MTRVI, have you even read the constitition? You sound like a fake Christian (i.e. PuddyBud) who has never actually read the Bible.

    Redneck, you don’t have the foggiest idea what you are talking about, and every obnoxious post you make, lets everyone know what a gasbag you are.

  77. 89

    Puddybud spews:

    Wrong again stuck on stuckonstupiddon. Glad you came to he who is really clueless defense. This is classified as a play on the Internet. Check it out.

  78. 91

    Donnageddon spews:

    PuddyBud, WTF RU talking about? If it is about Thus Spake Zarathustra it is “classified” as a philisophical treatise everwhere except in your small PuddyBud mind.

    You really do need to get out sometime.

    Turn the internet off, and crack open a book.

  79. 92

    JCH spews:

    John Kerry killed blacks in New Orleans by creating global warming with his wife’s Gulfstream G5. I KNOW this because Maxine Waters and Headless Lucy heard the REV Farrakkan take the phone call from the mother ship that was hiding from George Bush behind the moon. [Democrats: idiots!]

  80. 93

    JCH spews:

    Remember, global warming isn’t a temporary event like an earthquake or a flu epidemic. If all of our SUV driving melts the polar ice caps, that imposes permanent and irreversible harm on our children and grandchildren. Talk about “family values”!

    Comment by Green Thumb— 10/9/05 @ 12:06 pm
    [If the ice melts, COLD water cools the oceans of the world!! Green Thumb…….are you that stupid??]

  81. 95

    JCH spews:

    Green Thumb………Does the Kennedy’s private jets, “compounds” of homes, 110 foot private Chris Crafts, jet skis, and SUVs cause “global warming”? If so…..why are you silent??

  82. 97

    Dr. E spews:

    MTR @ 84

    Tell you what, I’ll ignore your ad hominem remarks, since they are both irrelevant and illogical (particularly the last paragraph of your post).

    If you reread what I posted, I’m not offering a solution, but rather a proposition. Therein lies the essential difference. Do I have a solution to the problems you see? No, but then I don’t hold a libertarian view of the function of federal government. I also don’t believe that “free markets” (as we know them) always work in the public interest: they do not demonstrably provide quality access to information (i.e. news media); they are also very poor at promotion/preserving culture, its artifacts and various manifestations, etc.

    Although I do believe that it is the federal government’s responsibility to maintain a military force, I don’t think it is government’s function to use that force in any way that, failing a request from supra-national organizations, has nothing to do with protecting the immediate security and territorial integrity of the United States.

    But that’s just my view, or a part thereof. My proposition — and it’s just that — is to suggest to others that you don’t pay for what you don’t like. I’ll support your right to protest, but as such, you support the right of others with opposing views to do the same, if they wish.

  83. 98

    JCH spews:

    “Global Warming”: Progressives must head to China and North Korea and demand they stop burning fossil fuels!!! [hehe]