Pay attention to the real voting issues

Actual voter suppression in the works, thanks to the Bush Court:

There are many ways to lose a Supreme Court case, and by the end of an argument that was before the court on Wednesday, the Democrats who were challenging Indiana’s voter-identification law appeared poised to lose theirs in a potentially sweeping way, with implications for many future election cases.

One of the big problems I have with folks who cry “vote fraud” is that it isn’t nearly as common as voter suppression. Requiring voter ID at the polls, which is what Indiana has done, creates greater barriers to voting, and Republicans push for these laws because they know that Democrats are more likely to not have proper ID with them on election day. Another trick is to put fewer (or broken) voting machines in black neighborhoods. Mix in the occasional purge of the voter rolls in Democratic neighborhoods and you have a recipe for actual, honest-to-God voter suppression. All of this is far, far easier to pull off than some sort of big voter fraud conspiracy.

As John Amato says:

Get off the voter stuff in NH and focus on a real threat to our democracy. With huge turnouts more than likely this election, what will happen at the polling stations when Americans are turned away because of these new rules? We’ve had to fight for our right to vote and we must continue to do so.

Comments

  1. 1

    Dean Logan's Poodle spews:

    “Another trick is to put fewer (or broken) voting machines in black neighborhoods.”

    Ah, yes, all those ‘black neighborhoods’ in which Republicans run the elections and install broken machines. That really is a neat trick.

    An even neater trick would be the presentation of evidence that anything like that, a half-vast right-wing conspiracy to disfranchise and suppress black voters, happened.

    (If you have ‘evidence,’ it’s probably as valid and compelling as the Democrat poster child paraded to the press in an attempt to sway the Supreme Court. The poster child du jour, a poor suppressed old woman whose vote was suppressed in Indiana, was trying to use her Florida ID to get an Indiana ballot, despite being registered to vote in at least two states.)

  2. 2

    I lurrve vote suppression spews:

    The poster child du jour, a poor suppressed old woman whose vote was suppressed in Indiana, was trying to use her Florida ID to get an Indiana ballot, despite being registered to vote in at least two states.)

    The old lady really gets around on election day. Warren Buffet flies her all over the damn place!

  3. 3

    I lurrve vote suppression spews:

    An even neater trick would be the presentation of evidence that anything like that, a half-vast right-wing conspiracy to disfranchise and suppress black voters, happened.

    Katherine Harris’ purge of “felon” voters in FL most of whom had never committed a felon was a neat trick.

  4. 4

    I lurrve vote suppression spews:

    they know that Democrats are more likely to not have proper ID

    Poor, minority and elderly voters are more likely to not have the ID that these capricious laws ask for and yes, suprise, they tend to lean Democratic.

    It’s old fashioned gaming the system in the disguise of reforming it.

  5. 6

    I lurrve vote suppression spews:

    Here’s a good one:

    Under the Indiana law, voters who are turned away for lack of identification may cast provisional ballots, which are counted only if the voter travels to the county clerk’s office within 10 days to show the required identification or sign a sworn statement that he cannot afford to obtain such an identification. The plaintiffs have argued that this extra step and required travel create an unnecessary burden that other states with identification requirements do not impose; those states do not require voters to make a second trip in order to have a provisional counted.

    Chief Justice Roberts, who grew up in Indiana, did not seem to find the burden excessive. “County seats aren’t very far for people in Indiana,” he said.

    And if you’re frail, handicapped or have a burdensome medical condition? That hoop isn’t much to jump through.

    What a freaking idiot.

  6. 7

    Dean Logan Died 4 Your Sins spews:

    #2: George Soros, not Warren Buffet.

    Was thinking about Florida, while on a #2 break. After all these years there is still less evidence that Harris whacked deserving Democrat felons than there’s evidence that Democrats suppressed military votes from overseas.

    And the countdown continues: Waiting patiently for the ID of even one Black Neighborhood in which Republicans run the election machinery and the election machines. Not to say there isn’t one somewhere, but where is it? And where’s the proof that Republicans deliberately installed broken machines?

    Maybe somebody’s confused. You must be thinking of the St. Louis precincts in which black voters were permitted, by a leftist judge, to vote long after the polls were to be closed. Or maybe you’re confused about that distant era, Reconstruction, during which Repubs really did assist black voters and were lynched by Democrats.

    (Medved gives me hives, but he said something wise today: rather than suing Hartford Insurance for reparations, blacktivists should sue the Democrat Party.)

  7. 8

    Dean Logan Died 4 Your Sins spews:

    6: So having to present valid ID to rent a vid at Blockbuster makes sense, but presenting valid ID to cast a valid ballot in a valid election is burdensome. Now I understand.

  8. 10

    Dean Logan Died 4 Your Sins spews:

    6: So it’s ok to require ID of seasoned citizens before they cash their welfare checks, but it’s burdensome … etc. Now I understand.

    Roberts might have been more compelled to see things your way if the Democrats who invaded his courtroom with their frivolous suit had actually presented a poster person who wasn’t doing, you know, fraud.

  9. 12

    Daddy Love spews:

    The point is that imposing any burden needs a showing of some compelling state interest. The lack of evidence of voter fraud (and the ridiculous assertions they use in place of evidence) constitutes the absence of such a showing.

  10. 13

    Daddy Love spews:

    10 DL

    Senior citizens have options in this regard, including direct deposit (if they have bank accounts). And while I am all for senior citizens having fewer barriers to collecting government benefits to which they are entitiled, this is also not a fundamental constitutional right.

  11. 14

    I lurrve vote suppression spews:

    You know if we vote suppressors are allowed to build a hoop for voters to jump through, then the next go around, it will be that much easier to make it even harder for those pesky citizens and their silly right to vote.

    We can never be too sure about “fraud”, wink, wink..

  12. 16

    I lurrve vote suppression spews:

    Another nugget:

    In his opinion last year upholding the Indiana law, Judge Richard A. Posner of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit agreed with the Democratic plaintiffs that the law would fall more heavily on Democrats than on Republicans. But that did not make the statute unconstitutional, he said.

    That judge has no right to agree with Democratic plaintiffs. He must be a crypto-liberal himself. At least he stopped short of striking down the law.

  13. 17

    I lurrve vote suppression spews:

    #2: George Soros, not Warren Buffet.

    Do you have a picture of his black helicopter?

  14. 18

    Dean Logan's Sock Puppet spews:

    ” … that imposing any burden …” Therefore it’s an imposed burden for a geezoid citizen to walk or roll to a polling place? To have to lift a pencil or to hang a chad? To have to endure the burdensome effort of drawing breath while voting Democrat?

    And “fundamental” right? Recall that voting was so un-fundamental to the Constitution that only fortunate white sons were allowed exchange their Democrat votes for rum. Extensions of the franchise and limitations of the franchise are not fundamental: they’re negotiated by Congress and legislatures.

  15. 19

    Dean Logan's Sock Puppet spews:

    Posner’s maybe the smartest man in America. I read a summary of his opinion, but your nugget wasn’t in it. Gimme a citation and a source.

  16. 21

    I lurrve vote suppression spews:

    Therefore it’s an imposed burden for a geezoid citizen to walk or roll to a polling place?

    Maybe not but try this one on for size:

    Chief Justice Roberts, who grew up in Indiana, did not seem to find the burden excessive. “County seats aren’t very far for people in Indiana,” he said.

    Mr. Smith replied that the county seat in Lake County was a 17-mile bus ride from the county’s urban center of Gary.

    A “geezoid” just can’t travel too far to assuage our fears of fraud.

    Extensions of the franchise and limitations of the franchise are not fundamental: they’re negotiated by Congress and legislatures.

    Yeah I agree. Just pack those places with R’s and there’ll never be another letter again. Makes things nice and uniform, a model democracy.

  17. 22

    Dean Logan's Off-Topic Troll spews:

    Was an undue burden imposed on dead felon illegal alien Democrat voters in Washington State when voter-registration rules were tightened? Leading up to ‘Governor’ Gregoire’s landslide in 2004, any motivated dog could send in the wide-open registration card and could be assured of getting ballots by the boatload.

  18. 23

    Daddy Love spews:

    18

    The right to vote is fundamental. The imposition of limitations thereto is subject to judicial review requiring a showing of a compelling state interest. Sometimes states show this efrectively. Sometimes racist courts uphold restrictions in the absence of a showing.

    It is a burden at times to walk to a polling place. We have voting by mail, in case you hadn’t noticed.

  19. 24

    Democrat Fraud Made spews:

    Still waiting for your citation and source. Since you’re cherrypicking sound bites, give us a link to the text and context.

  20. 25

    Daddy Love spews:

    22 DL

    The felon voters who testified all voted for Rossi. At least that’s what was introduced into evidence when the GOP spent $2 million unsuccessfully challenging the legal vote counts.

  21. 26

    Democrat Fraud Made spews:

    We do, and I noticed. Apparently Indiana doesn’t.

    And you haven’t ‘efrectively’ shown the fundamental part of voting fundamentalism. If the right is fundamental, then Jane’s dog was exercising a fundamental right that should not be denied to Piper’s neonate grandchild.

    Even judicial review is not fundamental. John Marshall made it us c. 1803.

  22. 28

    Democrat Fraud Made America Great spews:

    Four dead felons asserted they voted for Rossi. Since we have secret ballots (or maybe you didn’t notice) we don’t know for whom they voted.

    If voting is a fundamental right, then Maine’s right. Let voters vote in prison, and sue Washington State for imposing burdens for those in involuntary penitential servitude.

  23. 30

    Sam Adams spews:

    “The right to vote is fundamental.”

    That negates positive identification of the voter?

    Really?

  24. 31

    Just Another Fat Cat Democrat spews:

    And the four dead Democrat felons, allegedly voting for Rossi in 2004, registerd under the old wide-open rules.

    I’m only sayin’ that new dead Democrat felon pre-voters will be required now to register under new and burdensome rules. Seems like an abrogation of their fundamental Constitutional rights.

  25. 32

    I lurrve vote suppression spews:

    Posner’s maybe the smartest man in America.

    Man do I agree!

    Even though it is exceedingly difficult to maneuver in today’s America without a photo ID (try flying, or even entering a tall building such as the courthouse in which we sit, without one; see United States v. Smith, 426 F.3d 567 (2d Cir. 2005)), and as a consequence the vast majority of adults have such identification, the Indiana law will deter some people from voting. … The benefits of voting to the individual voter are elusive (a vote in a political election rarely has any instrumental value, since elections for political office at the state or federal level are never decided by just one vote), and even very slight costs in time or bother or out-of-pocket expense deter many people from voting, or at least from voting in elections they’re not much interested in. So some people who have not bothered to obtain a photo ID will not bother to do so just to be allowed to vote, and a few who have a photo ID but forget to bring it to the polling place will say what the hell and not vote, rather than go home and get the ID and return to the polling place.

    http://epic.org/privacy/voting.....010407.pdf

  26. 34

    ArtFart spews:

    8 Actually, it may not make sense, except to the folks at Blockbuster who want to track what you rent and bolster their bottom line by selling the information to other organizations.

    Related to all this (in a way), there’s a growing realization of the nasty implications of “ID authentication” schemes that happen to plug your personal information into a database somewhere:

    http://www.thejemreport.com/ma...../view/385/

    Yeah, sure…I know the wingers are going to parrot the slogan about how “if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about”. That is, they will until we start seeing records emerge of a few more closeted Republican rump rangers getting carded at leather bars.

  27. 35

    I lurrve vote suppression spews:

    I’m only sayin’ that new dead Democrat felon pre-voters will be required now to register under new and burdensome rules. Seems like an abrogation of their fundamental Constitutional rights.

    You mean ‘disenfranchisement by bureaucracy’?

    That has to be the greatest vote suppression scheme going.

    Not only does it purge the felons, it tends to eliminate you know those undesirable type people with not a lot of time on the hands to provide the proper “documentation”.

    Unfortunately liberal judges in both Florida and Washington have struck down these most excellent of vote suppression techniques:

    http://preview.tinyurl.com/yt9tvw

    http://preview.tinyurl.com/36lhkj

  28. 36

    I lurrve vote suppression spews:

    Gee that HAVA law gives SecStates a lot of power over the counties, a lot of power they didn’t use to have.

    A SecState like a Ken Blackwell or a Sam Reed at one stroke can purge a lot of “felons” or “dead people” or put a voter registrant into a circular file who doesn’t match a social security or drivers database.

    And if a few people are purged off the rolls who shouldn’t be or are prevented from voting who should be allowed? Well those are just those little computer glitches, no big deal.

    It “takes a little time” to iron those glitches out. We’ll take care of you the next time.

    In the meantime, keep looking for that documentation (wink, wink).

    I look forward to the day when a Sam Reed can be replaced by a guy like a Ken Blackwell who will do a “better job”.

  29. 37

    Tlazolteotl spews:

    @18: Oh, so you’re one of those idiots who doesn’t consider any of the amendments beyond the first 10 to be “part of the Constitution.” You know how all those others got there, don’t you? By processes mandated by….yes, you guessed it – the Constitution. So don’t give me that original 10 BS.

  30. 38

    Tlazolteotl spews:

    @30: You must have a reading comprehension problem. Daddy Love already explained that there is a burden on the state to show that it has a valid interest in order to impose such a hurdle to voting. If they don’t show evidence that fraud is actually occurring, they have no basis for imposing such a hurdle.

  31. 39

    Tlazolteotl spews:

    until we start seeing records emerge of a few more closeted Republican rump rangers getting carded at leather bars

    Or using their credit cards to pay for “escorts” or for renting those gay porn films at the hotel…..or maybe for the purchase of wetsuits and dildos!

  32. 40

    ArtFart spews:

    “Was thinking about Florida, while on a #2 break.”

    Toooooo much information, thankyouverymuch!

  33. 41

    Puddybud spews:

    I lurrve vote suppression:

    Hey Clueless Gooberfool (YLB) is that you again?

    How do I know?

    The use of: preview.tinyurl.com

    And the insipid vacuous posting style.

    “geezoid” “LMAO!!! Not bad for an old geezer.” – Only you used that term recently

    Biggest user of the blockquote style: http://www.horsesass.org/?p=4023#comment-723012

    Waaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaa

    Another Puddystudy completed.

  34. 42

    Puddybud spews:

    Oh and the use of Ken Blackwell in his arguments is another Clueless Gooberfool (YLB) giveaway!

  35. 43

    Puddybud spews:

    So Clueless Gooberfool: You are one of those undesirable types. Do you carry identification?

    Well it’s definitely incorrect. You must change your name!

  36. 44

    ArtFart spews:

    6 “Under the Indiana law, voters who are turned away for lack of identification may cast provisional ballots”

    Hmmm…and in the last two go-rounds in Ohio, didn’t quite a few “provisional ballots” somehow manage to disappear following the election?

    “which are counted only if the voter travels to the county clerk’s office within 10 days”

    The year before last, we had one election during the time my wife was recovering from hip surgery, and lemme tell you, getting to the polling place (which is only three blocks from our house) was bad enough. Getting downtown would sure as hell have constituted an “undue burden”.

    Not that I imagine Mister Justice Roberts gives a shit.

  37. 45

    ArtFart spews:

    28 “Four dead felons asserted they voted for Rossi.”

    Oh, really? Exactly what did they say?

  38. 46

    I lurrve vote suppression spews:

    Puddybud:

    Nice to see you here. Do you lurrve vote suppression? Sure you do!

    I just know you luuuuuurrrrve Ken Blackwell!

    He gave us our Dear Leader for four more years!

  39. 50

    Puddybud spews:

    Clueless Gooberfool: No I don’t like voter suppression.

    But I also don’t like people who vote for others in nursing homes who are not mentally there.

  40. 51

    Puddybud spews:

    ArtFart: If the provisional votes were to stay in the local precinct in Ohio, how could they be lost? Remember all I’ve ever said about the local precincts are they are local.

  41. 52

    correctnotright spews:

    Republicans want voter ID so that poor people, without cars, have to go get an extra photo ID and pay for it and have an extra burden – just to exercise their constitutional right to vote. Gee- I yearn for those good ol’ days of poll taxes – can’t pay the tax, then you can’t vote.
    Gee – why don’t we just go back to only letting property owners (not those darn renters) vote. When only the “right” people are allowed to vote, then we can have the elections come out as planned.

  42. 53

    spews:

    @41…Puddy…

    If it is, he’s running and hiding after the thrashing I gave him on another thread when I caught him lying in an accusation he made and then refusing to own up to the truth and retract the clear lie he told.

    He is a liar!

    BTW…where are all the Indiana citizens who’ve been prevented from voting? Purely hypothetical and theoretical. But identity theft is a growing concern, and the people of Indiana are entitled to act, through their assembled representatives to thwart it.

    We’re all required to produced photo-Id these days for a myriad of things, some of them to exercise fundamental rights, and some to simply buy beer. Welcome to modern life!

    If the Indiana Democratic Party is so concerned about it, then it can start an “ID 4 Free” campaign to make sure that every poor, minority, or elderly voter has valid ID.

    In the meantime, they can abide by the law.

    The Piper

  43. 54

    Puddybud spews:

    Piper: I really think it is Clueless Gooberfool, and I provided proof.

    With him all you have to do is save a stupid comment and use it later.

  44. 55

    Puddybud spews:

    Another incorrectnotright statement: “Republicans want voter ID so that poor people, without cars, have to go get an extra photo ID and pay for it and have an extra burden – just to exercise their constitutional right to vote.”

    So their driver’s license used to ID themselves in a bank is an extra photo ID.

    Why do liberals demagogue this issue?

  45. 56

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    It’s time to enact essential voting reform: Make it a tort to wrongfully challenge someone else’s right to vote. In addition, the statute should set minimum liquidated damages at $10,000 but permit juries to award more.

    (The reason for this is because the right to vote is precious and priceless, but some people value it more than others; for example, a jury might decide that a rabbit who voluntarily enlisted in the Army and served with a combat unit in Vietnam, and has voted in every presidential election of the last 40 years, deserves more compensation than someone who doesn’t take voting seriously and has skipped past elections.)

  46. 57

    Puddybud spews:

    Maybe Mayor Bloomberg is paying attention to real voting issues so much CNN is scared for Hilary…

    BILL SCHNEIDER: Bloomber, like Perot, is rich enough to finance his own campaign. Perot got nearly 20% of the vote in 1992, but he didn’t carry a single state. Do Bloomberg’s prospects look any better? It depends on who the Democratic and Republican candidates are. Will the parties nominate candidates who have broad enough appeal to unite the country, or, will they nominate divisive candidates with highly partisan support? Partisan and divisive nominees would leave a lot of room in the center for a Bloomberg candidacy. He has to wait and see who the nominees are.

    GARY HART: We could well know by February 5th who the two nominees are. That’s the time then to ask your question.

    SCHNEIDER: But will that leave enough time? Sure. Perot didn’t indicate his interest in running until February 20th, 1992, on Larry King Live.

    Mayor Bloomberg is from the most Democratic part of the country: the Northeast. And his views are much closer to the Democratic party than to the Republican party. So there’s a good chance Bloomberg would split the Democratic vote and help elect a Republican. Just what the Democrats need: a Ralph Nader, with money.

  47. 58

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    Democrats are against voter ID because they have to cheat to win. They have no problem with a poor little old lady who made $500 cleaning houses to supply a nine digit number on a tax return most dems can’t complete.

    Democrats = voter fraud.

  48. 59

    YLB spews:

    when I caught him lying in an accusation he made

    You didn’t catch me doing shit.

    Prove right here I lied about anything Moron!

    It’s a little late. I’m going to call your delusional silly ass on it tomorrow.

  49. 60

    YLB spews:

    a poor little old lady who made $500 cleaning houses

    doesn’t even have to fucking file you silly dipshit!

  50. 61

    YLB spews:

    Democrats are against voter ID because they have to cheat to win.

    Cheat to win? Like Tobin did for Sununu’s seat and then bankrupted the NH Republican Party and burnt through millions of RNC money to stay out of jail? Like the cheating Raymond went to jail for?

    You learned well from Goebbels Doofus. You repeat the same lies over and over and over and over and over again.

  51. 62

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    YLB says:

    a poor little old lady who made $500 cleaning houses

    doesn’t even have to fucking file you silly dipshit!

    01/10/2008 at 8:07 pm

    Bullshit!!!!

    If you make $500 for cleaning houses and your customers pay cash (which is usually the case) and supply all the cleanig supplies (which is not uncommon) guess what, you are subject to self employment tax. Of course I can understand why a dem would miss that…. dems don’t pay taxes. You are such a dumbass. hehehehe

  52. 63

    YLB spews:

    62 – On net earnings of $400 or more.

    I suppose you’re her accountant. Not that she could afford your stupid ass.

  53. 64

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    63

    So why are you for forcing little old ladies who made $500 in self employment income to file a 1040 and supply a SS# every year but you are against forcing people to carry a free ID to the polls?

  54. 65

    spews:

    @59…YouLyingBlackguard…

    “Remember the Cole? or the British sailors captured recently?

    I remember Dumbya was too busy to do anything about the Cole had other priorities, vacation, star wars boondoggles, stuff like that.”

    You asserted that somehow Dubya had responsibility for the USS Cole aftermath when, at that time, he was Governor of Texas.

    You refused to admit Bill Clinton was President when the USS Cole was bombed, and you bobbed and weaved and evaded and dodged and ran and ran and ran like the coward and ideological empty suit you are!

    As the staff sergeant would say, “YLB? Sucks to be you…” Then, given your hatred of American soldiers and Marines and the joy you have when you trumpet their deaths, he would give you a lot more…a lot more!

    And claiming 8:00 is a little late is disingenuous. Just another ploy to avoid facing the truth. Not going to bed so much as hiding under it.

    Run, YLB, run!

    The Piper

  55. 66

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @62 “If you make $500 for cleaning houses and your customers pay cash (which is usually the case) and supply all the cleanig supplies (which is not uncommon) guess what, you are subject to self employment tax. Of course I can understand why a dem would miss that…. dems don’t pay taxes. You are such a dumbass. hehehehe”

    Wrong. If the customer stands there supervising you, which is probably the case if the customer supplies the cleaning materials, you are an “employee” under Washington law and the customer is responsible for paying the FICA tax.

  56. 67

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    “Unity” is for Cowards and Fools

    This morning I caught a discussion on NPR’s Diane Rehm Show with some of the ninnies who attended yesterday’s meeting in Oklahoma chaired by former US Senator David Boren. Boren droned on about his wish that the presidential candidates commit now to choosing a bipartisan ‘cabinet of national unity.’ Former NJ Governor Christie Todd Whitman prattled on about the importance of finding ‘middle ground.’ And … former IA Congressman Jim Leach spread the lie that ‘the majority of the Democratic party supported’ [the Iraq war].

    “I have more respect for Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove, David Addington and Dick Cheney than I do for Democratic capitulators like Boren and cowardly Republican ‘moderates’ like Whitman and Leach … [who] shun adversity and conflict. At least Gingrich et al are formidable adversaries.

    “If the ‘solution’ to hyper-partisanship is to fetishize a flaccid centrism, I’d rather slug it out with the hyper-partisans and let the voters decide between the us and the Republicans.

    “Especially now, as the majority of the electorate has begun to conclude that the Republican party has been captured by extremists and the Democratic party embodies the mainstream of American values, concerns and aspirations, we don’t need milquetoast centrism, we need principled partisanship. … [T]here are no bipartisan solutions, because the Republican party … has become radical and divorced from the mainstream of America[.]

    ” … Therefore, we must recognize that until the Republicans change, the answers to our nation’s most pressing needs and challenges — getting out of Iraq and fixing our foreign and defense policy, combating terrorism, addressing global warming and environmental devastation, changing our energy policy, implementing universal health care, shoring up the economic security of the middle class, expanding opportunities for the poor and disadvantaged, and undoing the damage of the ‘unitary executive’ and the assault on our civil liberties — will not be bipartisan.

    “Demanding bipartisan solutions to our problems requires us to wait for the Republican party to heal itself. We can’t wait, and it’s time all our Democratic politicians and policy wonks and pundits and campaign and strategy people stop expecting … Republicans … to join in and work for the good of the country.

    “Boren, Leach, Whitman and the rest are blaming Americans’ anger and current governmental gridlock on partisanship, when they should be placing the blame where it belongs: the radical right and its Republican allies in Congress and the White House.

    “Boren … [is] correct that during the Cold War the parties worked … cooperatively on national security issues. But after the Cold War, Lee Atwater and Newt Gingrich unleashed a scorched-earth politics, and Karl Rove refined it to the point that … Max Cleland’s support of union rights for federal employees … of the new Department of Homeland Security was used by the Republican party to run ads linking Cleland with Osama bin Laden. The Republican party no longer accepts opposition as American; for them, domestic opponents … are demonized …. So, Boren and the other losers waited until now to start preaching bipartisanship?

    “The American people want solutions, and they are looking to the Democratic party for those solutions. They want to undo the abuses of the Bush administration, not keep just enough Republicans in positions of power to permanently lock in the damage. … Boren and other fake Democrats more concerned with unity than the good of the country are dupes …. To accomplish anything, the next Democratic administration and Congress won’t have to work with the Republicans, they will have to prevail over them. To prevail will require people with backbone.

    “We need people who recognize that it was Newt Gingrich, Bill Kristol and the Republican party that purposively blocked … health care reform …. It was the Republican party that attacked the foundations of the New Deal and precipitated the government shutdown in 1995. It was the Republican party that … impeached Bill Clinton … because of a blowjob. It was the Republican party that mobilized … to steal the 2000 election from Al Gore …. It was the Republican party that … led us in to the war in Iraq in 2003. And it’s the Republican party that’s engaging in … obstructionism to prevent meaningful Congressional action on … a host of … issues.

    “To deal with the Republican radicals … we need people who are willing to be firm and resolute. We do not need people who seek the ‘center’ … ‘centrism’ is catastrophic when the Republican party is so far to the right. The ‘center’ between our two parties is far to the right of the American public, and that’s why all current indications are that November will be a blowout election. T

    “That apparently scares Boren and his buddies, because now they’re acting like a cabinet-in-waiting for Republican Michael Bloomberg, and hoping he will spend some of his $11 billion to muck up the election, keep Democrats from gaining full control of the federal government, and reversing the damage of the last 7 years of the Bush administration.

    “Ultimately, the problem with the losers who met yesterday in Oklahoma is that they live in fear. They fear conflict, and they are cowards. Leach voted against the Iraq War Resolution, but when did he ever speak out against the Bush administration and his fellow Republicans? Plutocrat Whitman was in the Bush administration, and while she now tries to hold herself above the partisanship of Bush, she … skulked out of DC without speaking the truth about her president and her party. And Boren, where was he when the Gingrich revolution was picking up steam in 1994? He was resigning his Senate seat instead of staying and fighting for the country. …

    ” … [I]n the current climate, … bipartisanship is stupid. It’s cowardly. And if you care about our country and have the guts to look at our politics not as you would like them but as they actually are practiced, right now to preach bipartisanship is to preach surrender.”

    Quoted under fair use; for complete story and/or copyright info see http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....34643/0365

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: This excellent piece explains, better than I could myself, why I have a real problem with Obama’s promise to be a unifying president. I think it would be a catastrophic mistake for the next president to pander to Republicans. The times and circumstances call for walking roughshod over them — stomping them — to get the nation’s essential business done. They aren’t going to compromise, so why should we? They didn’t accomodate us, so why should we extend them that courtesy? They will misuse it to stymie the majority will and block reforms. This article explains why I may yet go into the Feb. 9 caucus as a Clinton supporter.

  57. 68

    Puddybud spews:

    Let’s pay attention to the big voting issues.

    Another Puddystudy, after listening to Hilary diss big oil, big drugs, big banks, etc.

    Look at all these Hilary Jock Straps

    Rupert Murdoch, News corps. chairman FOX NEWS CORP
    Ronald Perelman, billionaire investor
    Sumner Redstone, Viacom chairman
    Brian Roberts, Comcast chairman
    Hilary Rosen, lobbyist, former RIAA CEO
    Haim Saban, media mogul – He brought Power Rangers for Clueless Gooberfool to watch!
    Brad Grey, Paramount pictures chairman
    Vernon Jordan, Washington power broker
    Jeff Kindler, Pfizer CEO
    Norman Lear, TV producer
    John Mack, Morgan Stanley chairman
    Jack Abernethy, CEO of FOX TV
    Chris Albrecht, HBO chairman
    Paul Allen, Microsoft co-founder
    Lloyd Blankenfein, Goldman Sachs chairman
    Warren Buffett, Berkshire-Hathaway, billionaire
    Ron Burkle, Supermarket magnate
    August Busch III, Anheuser-Busch chairman
    John Catsimatidis, Supermarket mogul
    Peter Chernin, News corps. COO – FOX NEWS GUY
    Donny Deutsch, Adverstising exec
    Barry Diller, media mogul
    Tom Freston, former Viacom president
    Ivan Seidenberg, Verizon chairman
    Terry Semel, former Yahoo CEO
    Ben Silverman, NBC chairman
    Sy Sternberg, NY Life insurance chairman
    Howard Stringer, Sony CEO
    Richard Thalheimer, Sharper image chairman
    Sandy Weill, Citigroup chairman
    Robert Wright, former NBC chairman

    Hey Clueless Gooberfool looks like one of your pillars has fallen. Rupert Murdoch is a Hilary garter belt.

  58. 70

    YLB spews:

    You asserted that somehow Dubya had responsibility for the USS Cole aftermath when, at that time, he was Governor of Texas.

    Asserted .. Somehow! That somehow is in that psychotic glob of mess that’s charitably called your mind.

    YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!

    I MADE NO SUCH ASSERTION!

    YOU HAVE NOT PROVED ANYTHING!!!!

  59. 71

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    Wrong. If the customer stands there supervising you, which is probably the case if the customer supplies the cleaning materials, you are an “employee” under Washington law and the customer is responsible for paying the FICA tax.

    01/10/2008 at 8:40 pm

    If she has more than one customer (which is usually the case) then you are not bound to pay 941 taxes on anything less tan $400. So rabbit why are you for forcing little old ladies who made $500 in self employment income to file a 1040 and supply a SS# every year but you are against forcing people to carry a free ID to the polls?

  60. 72

    YLB spews:

    PuddyShithead @ 69

    I know full well Hillary hobnobs with Murdoch. They may have indeed cut a deal. Murdoch isn’t stupid. He’s spreading his bets.

    Which is why Hillary is not my first choice.

    I’m a Edwards supporter until he becomes the nominee or decides not to continue on.

    Right now it doesn’t look for Edwards to take the nomination but he could very well be a king maker.

    Nice try at shoehorning me into the Hillary camp. It’s how you stupid folks do.

  61. 73

    Puddybud spews:

    I have a Hillary Puddystudy held in Goldy’s filter.

    Here is another one:

    DLA Piper $356,100
    Goldman Sachs $350,050
    Morgan Stanley $323,550
    Citigroup Inc $307,350
    EMILY’s List $211,642
    National Amusements Inc $193,850
    JP Morgan Chase & Co $173,350
    Kirkland & Ellis $172,000
    Skadden, Arps et al $151,460
    Greenberg Traurig LLP $150,900
    Cablevision Systems $135,113
    Merrill Lynch $125,550
    Time Warner $124,150
    Lehman Brothers $123,450
    Bear Stearns $120,580
    Patton Boggs $118,400
    Ernst & Young $110,650
    Blank Rome LLP $105,100
    Latham & Watkins $100,950
    News Corp $99,350

    Hey Pelletizer aren’t these companies employing those CEOs you were ranting and raving about? Lookie here who gives to Hildabeast.

  62. 74

    YLB spews:

    Then, given your hatred of American soldiers and Marines and the joy you have when you trumpet their deaths,

    THAT IS A FUCKING DESPICABLE LIE. MY DEEPEST CONTEMPT IS FOR THE UGLY PEOPLE IN POWER WHO BEFOULED THIS COUNTRY’S HONOR BY SENDING THOSE MEN AND WOMEN INTO HARM’S WAY FOR GREED AND THEIR LUST FOR POWER.

    AND I HAVE PARTICULAR DISDAIN FOR THEIR SYCOPHANTS – PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

  63. 76

    yo spews:

    guess the dems witness was refused to vote in In because she had a florida drivers license.come to find out she was voting in both states.so much for no dem voter fraud.

  64. 77

    Puddybud spews:

    Clueless Gooberfool: You claim to know this and that yet when people really peel the fool back they see an empty suit.

    So since you claim to be the all knowing one:

    Why did Mike Steele get the special democrap treatment?
    Why did Lynn Swann get the special democrap treatment?
    Why did H Carl McCall get the special democrap treatment?

    Let’s see those answers now since you know it all…

  65. 78

    spews:

    @70…YellowLoserBitch…

    Then answer the question:

    Who was President whent the USS Cole was bombed?

    You stand condemned as a liar out of your own mouth…

    The Piper

  66. 79

    spews:

    @74…YouLoveBlood…

    Then why are you so quick to post news of tragedies and casualties yet you stand mute when it comes to successes?

    Why don’t you make an effort to understand the job our men and women are doing and figure out some way to help them succeed instead of glorying in hints of failre?

    You anger and bitterness and hatred and fanatacism and lingering resentment over past grievances blind you and color everything you do and say…and it’s very obvious.

    Have trouble with most interpersonal relationships, do you?

    The Piper

  67. 83

    Puddybud spews:

    Wow Pelletizer it shows the big rich money from cheap labor liberals goes to Hilary.

    Another Puddystudy:

    Agribusiness $526,725

    Communications/Electronics $4,358,597

    Construction $1,294,220

    Defense $125,583

    Energy & Natural Resources $574,658

    Finance, Insurance & Real Estate $12,275,878

    Health $2,642,547

    Lawyers & Lobbyists $10,164,698

    Transportation $399,232

    Misc Business $7,865,353

    Labor $84,100

    Ideological/Single-Issue $644,373

    Other $7,583,119

    I thought the insurance companies were big Republican friends? Goodness headless 24/7 lucy another one of your big lies put to rest.

    Hey who said K Street on this blog. Looks like the Lobbyists are berry berry good to Hilary!

  68. 84

    Puddybud spews:

    You know Clueless Gooberfool, where are your libbie friends to your rescue? Maybe they can answer #77 and help you out? Could it be yous just a fool and fools and their money are soon departed?

  69. 85

    YLB spews:

    Shoehorning you into the Hilary camp. Sold! You said you’d vote for her.

    If she’s the nominee, I’ll vote for her sure. You expect me to vote for Huck Norris?

    Would you vote for Hillary over Huck Norris?

  70. 86

    Puddybud spews:

    You know who are the real cheap labor liberals right now. THe Movie Moguls. They are keeping the writers out on strike just for a few $$$ in revenues. Now the Golden Globes are canceled. Good riddance to bad garbage!

    Talk about cheapness! Cheap labor liberals.

  71. 87

    Puddybud spews:

    Talk to the Hand Clueless Gooberfool. You have a question to answer.

    Oops gotta go bed and mate are a calling.

  72. 89

    YLB spews:

    Then why are you so quick to post news of tragedies and casualties yet you stand mute when it comes to successes?

    The surge has failed. Only one of the eight political benchmarks set for the Iraqis has been met and only part of another.

    The U.S. Military “succeeds” at killing people in Iraq every day. It’s their job. It’s what they’re trained to do.

    They have no training at stitching together a broken egg like Iraq.

    Really – are your kids trained to be peacekeepers/makers or nation builders or warriors?

    My response to any touted “success” by this corrupt, despicable administration is GREAT! Can the troops come home so we can stop the bleeding?

  73. 90

    YLB spews:

    You know who are the real cheap labor liberals right now. THe Movie Moguls.

    That all you have left at the end of the day? Talk about the hand.

  74. 91

    spews:

    @80…YellowLiveredBlob…

    I’m not giving an order, I’m simply asking you to answer a question:

    Who was President when the USS Cole was bombed?

    That you now resort to long strings of caps indicates that you’re angry. No need…simply answer the question, which will serve to retract the lie you wrote before.

    That you refuse to cease your grade-school antic isn’t one of your better efforts…But that begs another question: Have you ever had a good effort?

    The Piper

  75. 92

    George Hanshaw spews:

    There is no single more important issue than the integrity of the election process, because without it democracy is lost.

    Knowing that the process is HONEST is what allows people to compromise on the position they would rather have when the vote goes against them. That’s how you are able to settle such things at the ballot box, rather than through force of arms.

    Does voter fraud exist? OF COURSE it does. Hell, after the last general election there were students at the University of Wisconsin-Madison BRAGGING that they had voted early and often. http://badgerherald.com/news/2.....depere.php

    One of the most critical reasons we HAVE to get the King County Elections process working is that if you keep coming up with more and more previously uncounted ballots during each recount, you create the PERCEPTION that there is fraud, and the perception itself may well be enough to undermine the consensus in the US that things are better settled with ballots than bullets.

    Given the importance of the election process to the continuation of democracy, one would think that reasonable measures…such as government issued picture ID to insure that no one who isn’t eligible votes (and nobody votes more than once) would be an absolute necessity.

  76. 93

    YLB spews:

    91 – Ask that silly irrelevant question all you want. I’m not going to dignify it with an answer.

    simply answer the question, which will serve to retract the lie you wrote before.

    You’re still calling me a liar which is not true, you’ve stuffed words into my mouth, asserted motivations and beliefs to me and others that are false. Most of the time this crap is ignored because it’s so patently crazy…

    Go to fucking hell.

  77. 94

    spews:

    @89…YouLiveinBaloneyland…

    The surge hasn’t worked? Says who? Your enabling friends on the left who are rooting for its failure? Or al Quiday? Take your pick.

    Certainly not the two U.S. Senators, McCain and Lieberman, who wrote this: http://online.wsj.com/public/a.....79631.html

    And this report from CNN evidences the surge’s success: http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/.....eath.toll/

    Another bit of evidence on how the surge is succeeding is the absence of front page mention of Iraq at the New York Times and its disappearance as a campaign issue among the Demo Prexy candidates.

    Even Harry Reid finds himself in an increasingly untenable position: http://www.politico.com/blogs/.....imism.html

    Now, the surge is succeeding, but the job isn’t over, as you point out. Not all the benchmarks have been met, but substantial progress has been made. But that doesn’t seem to be good enough for you.

    Always eager to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, you’d undoubtedly crow that all was catastrophe and use evidence that the G.I. toilet paper issued to troops in the field didn’t have enough “cush.”

    There’s much work to be done by both American military forces and the Iraqi people. The plethora of complaints that Iraqi’s haven’t stepped up soon enough or strong enough – that there are no Iraqi Thomas Jefferson’s – says what? How about that Saddam Hussein had them murdered when he was in power.

    Bring the troops home? No one is contemplating that. We’ve been in Kuwait since Desert Storm, Korea since the 50’s and many places in Europe since WW II. You can count on a sizable American military presence in Iraq no matter who, or from what party, is elected President. And that’s an unalterable fact

    You have a complete misunderstanding of the complex nature of the military, both in its primary and secondary responsibilities.

    While soldiers and Marines are trained to fight, they’re also trained to think of ways to minimize fighting, and that’s what they’re doing now in Iraq. Sometimes the first time isn’t always the charm, but our men and women are taught to improvise, adapt and overcome.

    And they succeed: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....q_handover

    “Iraq’s western province of Anbar, hotbed of the Sunni Arab insurgency for the first four years of the war, will be returned to Iraqi control in March, a senior U.S. general said Thursday.

    In a telephone interview from Iraq, Marine Maj. Gen. Walter E. Gaskin, commander of the roughly 35,000 Marine and Army forces in Anbar, said levels of violence have dropped so significantly — coupled with the growth and development of Iraqi security forces in the province — that Anbar is ready to be handed back to the Iraqis.

    Thus far, nine of 18 Iraqi provinces have reverted to Iraqi control, most recently the southern province of Basra in December. The process has gone substantially slower than the Bush administration once hoped, mainly because of obstacles to developing sufficient Iraqi police and army forces. But Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Thursday that he expects the process to continue.”

    There are some important and positive things happening these days in Iraq, but all you have to offer is death, dying, destruction, despair, and defeat.

    Have there been mistakes? Yes; wars always have mistakes. Could things have been done better? Yes; there’s always room for improvement.

    Think Kasserine Pass, Dieppe, Operation Market Garden, the Battle of the Bulge, and more. People ran those battles, and people made mistakes. And men died, which is deeply tragic and heartbreaking. But eventually we prevailed.

    Why not now? While victory may have a definition different than it did in the 1940’s, however we define it today is achievable.

    Ditto in Afghanistan.

    If you disagree with why we’re there or what we ought to do or how we can do what we do better, then offer positive suggestions. Quite simply gushing over the latest deaths from the front lines; that’s not helpful to anyone, and it hurts many.

    If you don’t believe me, I can put you in touch with my boys, and they’ll tell you…this and much, much, much more! But they won’t be as nice about as am I.

    So it goes…

    The Piper

  78. 95

    spews:

    @93…YouLikeBeingwhipped?…

    You’re the one who made the original assertion, and now you’re the one refusing to correct the error.

    The more you do this, the more foolish you look.

    So…again…Who was President when the USS Cole was bombed?

    The Piper

  79. 96

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @91 “Both the Clinton Administration and the Bush Administration have been criticized for failing to respond militarily to the attack on the USS Cole before September 11, 2001.

    “The 9-11 Commission Report cites one source who said in February 2001, ‘[bin Laden] complained frequently that the United States had not yet attacked [in response to the Cole]… Bin Ladin wanted the United States to attack, and if it did not he would launch something bigger.’ …

    “According to Dr. Rice, the decision not to respond militarily to the Cole bombing was President Bush’s.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_bombing

  80. 98

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    It’s gonna be fun to watch these rubes run against Bill Clinton in ’08. They don’t realize the rest of the country has caught on to their idiocy — and their culpability.

  81. 99

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @95 In response to your question, it was President Bush who decided against military action in response to the Cole bombing, thereby prompting bin Laden to attack the Twin Towers.

  82. 101

    YLB spews:

    You’re the one who made the original assertion

    I asserted that George W. Bush did not order any retaliatory action in response to the attack on the Cole between the time he took office and September 11, 2001.

    This assertion to the best of my knowledge is true

    I listed a bunch of things he did do during that time (which included a lot of vacation) and which had nothing to do with the Cole bombing.

    How many times do I have to repeat this?

  83. 102

    spews:

    @99…RR…

    The question was who was President when the USS Cole was bombed?

    You’re completely clueless – not new, that – about the nature of the underlying argument. Once again you stick you stupid in where all it does is gum up the works.

    Like the third-grade boy who sticks toilet paper out the back end of his pants to attract attention, all you do is encourage the world to laugh at you as the fool you are.

    Life has faile you, and you have failed it.

    The Piper

  84. 103

    YLB spews:

    94 – Success! Successes! Fantastic news Piper. Let’s break out the champagne!

    Now when do our brave men and women come home?

    Or are we one or two Friedman units away?

  85. 104

    YLB spews:

    Oh and if you continue to say I said something I didn’t say?

    Either prove it or

    Go to fucking hell.

  86. 105

    spews:

    @96…RR…

    The intellectually honest cite quotes in context, the intellectually prostituted don’t.

    You didn’t, hooker. From the Wikipedia cite you used:

    “According to Dr. Rice, the decision not to respond militarily to the Cole bombing was President Bush’s. She said he “made clear to us that he did not want to respond to al Qaeda one attack at a time. He told me he was ‘tired of swatting flies.'” The administration instead began work on a new strategy to eliminate al-Qaeda.[20]

    On November 3, 2002, the CIA fired a AGM-114 Hellfire missile from a Predator UAV at a vehicle carrying Abu Ali al-Harithi, a suspected planner of the bombing plot. Also in the vehicle was Ahmed Hijazi, a U.S. citizen. Both were killed. This operation was carried out on Yemeni soil.”

    That the world knows you’re an intellecutally dishonest hack goes without saying. Now you’ve simply added weight to the evidence.

    The Piper

  87. 106

    spews:

    @101…YelpLikeBaby…

    The question remains: Who was President when the USS Cole was bombed?

    Let’s add, when did it happen? Further – won’t be tough since I’ve already given the answer @105 – what happened and when to Abu Ali al-Harithi, a suspected planner of the bombing plot? Who was President then?

    I’ve used your own words against you, and you can’t stand that! Intellectually dishonest and a rhetorical eunuch, you wouldn’t know what to do with them if you had them.

    Incapable of writing an in-depth analysis, all you ever over is the gibe or insult, a skill at which you are patheticlly inept. Why don’t you ditch the talking points your masters give you and get a life of your own?

    The Piper

  88. 107

    Puddybud spews:

    Pelletizer@98 Pelleted:

    “It’s gonna be fun to watch these rubes run against Bill Clinton in ‘08. They don’t realize the rest of the country has caught on to their idiocy — and their culpability.”

    Yet Daqrcy Moonbat! Burner runs against George Bush in her “prognostications”.

    You are a real piece of work Pelletizer. So tell me all about Dave Reichert again. Did you remember yet?

  89. 108

    Puddybud spews:

    Piper: Clueless Gooberfool acts just like Pelletizer. Makes a wild ass assertion and when caught will deflect, pivot and obfuscate.

    How is the Mattel spreadsheet going Clueless Gooberfool?

    How is that “Take the Test, Take the Test”, Ohhhh. never mind it’s fake.

    How is the plagiarization doing?

    How is the “GWBush Rejected Kyoto”. Oops… Not Senate Ratified doing?

    Why haven’t you rejected what Headless Lucy said in September 2005?

    Why can’t you answer:
    Why did Mike Steele get the special democrap treatment?
    Why did Lynn Swann get the special democrap treatment?
    Why did H Carl McCall get the special democrap treatment?

    And don’t tell us that tired song and dance you don’t take orders from me. Just answer the question.

    Over the many years I’ve gladly answered your questions. Now that the tables are turned you run like a scared punk when the bully has been taken down. You don’t know how to debate. It’s sad really sad.

    Yes you are the prince of the whoppers. The Whopper King is still Pelletizer.

    Dismissed with Prejudice… Nuff SAID! The Prosecution Rests.

  90. 109

    YLB spews:

    106 – Poor losing Pooper – can’t a prove a damned thing so he repeats his silly question and..

    adds another?

    gtfh – loser..

    I got something to do this morning but I’ll be back to attack and ridicule the ugly losing crowd who is dishonoring and bankrupting this country.

  91. 110

    headless lucy spews:

    re 53: “BTW…where are all the Indiana citizens who’ve been prevented from voting?”

    Where are all the Indiana voters who cheated because they weren’t forced to produce a photo ID?

    They don’t exist.

    It’s vote suppression.

  92. 111

    goldypimps, darcywhores spews:

    Your delicious irony of the day comes from Florida and Indiana. The litigant who is trying to kill off Indiana’s voter ID law is a walking, talking case of potential voter fraud. She certainly appears to have broken the law by registering to vote in both Indiana and Florida, and by claiming homestead tax exemption in both states. But let’s re-write the law so she doesn’t have to provide proper ID before voting!

    The cherry on the irony is when the Supremes asked the dimocrap party lawyer what the hell gthey were doing there…

  93. 112

    headless lucy spews:

    re 111: One can only hope the severity of her punishment is equal to that of Ann Coulter.

    “…potential voter fraud.” The legal standard for a new law of this nature is not speculation that voter fraud is a “potential”, but proof that it happens — and happens on a scale so large as to swing elections.

    Republican voter suppression meets these standards — not that the conservative assholes on the SCOTUS ever let law, reason, or common sense get in the way of their pre-ordained , ideological decisions.