Open Thread 9/5

- Scientists warn that climate change is causing oceans to warm and expand, triggering sea level rise. New models estimate seas could climb from 18 inches to well over 50 inches by the turn of the century, a level that would inundate downtown Olympia. (h/t)

– Since this is a Northwest blog, I don’t know how much in the open threads to mention other states. But ugh Texas, and ugh Texas.

– The GOP plan on health care seems to be to make as many people suffer as possible in the hope that people blame Obama for their suffering.

Back to school, everybody.

– Are 21 stores going to be enough for your marijuana needs, Seattle?

– The Seattle City Council unanimously approved a couple bills to help make bike share a reality in the city.

I just know we’ll get it right this time.


  1. 2

    czechsaaz spews:

    Heard a RW lunatic err…savage…er…wiener on the way home last night talking about Kerry’s sell job on Syria. After proclaiming he studied french for a decade and has a Parisian accent (this absolutely must be a joke but the ego in question, one never knows) repeatedly pronounced Médecins Sans Frontières incorrectly.

    Anyway, I bring it up because to follow his logic, Kerry has to have changed from very public anti-war Veteran propelling him to office, 1991 Gulf War opposer, voter to authorize removal of Saddam specifically, “Because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”, to fierce critic of the lies used to sell that war, and then to a guy who just DESPERATELY wants to send the U.S. to war.

    “I need to go find a brick and bash the last bit of sense out of my brain” -Purchaser of said Nut Job’s books.

  2. 5

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @2 This may not make me real popular with some of my liberal friends, but those 1,400+ dead bodies in Damascus didn’t expire from the flu, and I think Reagan’s policy of appeasing Saddam when he gassed the Kurds was a mistake and it would be a mistake to appease this tinpot dictator, too. Anyway, we’re not talking about war here, we’re talking about breaking Assad’s toys with a long-handled hammer.

  3. 6

    Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

    Anyway, we’re not talking about war here, we’re talking about breaking Assad’s toys with a long-handled hammer.

    That’s the danger of the bait-and-switch.

    Imagine how effectively the ‘Syrian War’ will take jobs and healthcare and economic justice and drug rationality off the table as we get preoccupied with the next grinding circus of death.

  4. 7

    czechsaaz spews:


    The logic of the claim fails under scrutiny. The thrust of the conservoworld quoting MSF figures of 355 dead PROVES that the administration is lying.

    Never mind that MSF says 3600 were treated at Hospitals and 355 under hospital care died as a result of an airborne neurotoxin that MSF goes to great lengths to explain that AT THIS TIME is unidentified.

    So that’s it. According to lunatics, only 355 died. Because no one died without making it to one of the three MSF affiliated clinics. No bodies were in the streets. ONLY the 355 that made it alive to the hospital and died there are dead. NOT ONE SINGLE OTHER PERSON.

  5. 8

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ 7

    Its the same math they use to calculate employment figures. If you don’t get unemployment benefits, you aren’t unemployed.

  6. 9

    No Time for Fascists spews:

    I’m against military intervention in Syria. There is no national security need.

    It was fascinating how on MSNBC every commentator had valid and extensive reasons for not going into Syria.

    And that may be the case here in Syria, in which case, those of us who oppose military intervention both for practical reasons and on principle, need to have the moral courage to stare into the gaping maw of horror that is the Syrian civil war and the Assad regime and the murder of hundreds of innocent children and say: We can’t make this situation better. We just can’t.

    I believe that this debate over Syria is offering a roadmap to the Republican nomination for President next time.

    Watch when we get to the Senate floor. It will be the same: anyone who wants in in 2016 will vote to stay out of Syria.

  7. 10

    rhp6033 spews:

    Okay, some people who opposed the war in Iraq have changed course and supported intervention of some kind in Syria John Kerry is a very visable example because he’s opposed just about every military action since Vietnam, save this one.

    Of course, Kerry is a special case – it’s his job to sell the administration’s position or resign in protest. That doesn’t necessarily mean he supports it whole-heartedly.

    But the big issue is the intelligence used and available to Congress to support the administration (and the nation’s) proposed action. Kennedy went to the United Nations and on TV appealed directly the the U.S. public, using U-2 photographs to support his claims that despite Cuban and Russian denials, there were Soviet missles in Cuba with offensive capabilities. Johnson used cherry-picked intelligence and outright lies about what happened in the Gulf of Tonkin to support his goal of a free hand in Vietnam. Nixon used similar tactics to support his widening of the war in Cambodia and Laos. Reagan denied U.S. involvement in Central America in his campaign against Nicaragua, using the illegal arms-for-hostages deals to fund it. George H.W. Bush was determined to go to war with Iraq, and used tall tales of WMD and Iraqi obstruction of inspectors to justify it.

    So the issue seems to be the credibility of the supporting evidence, and whether any U.S. response can be limited to remedying the situation without expanding it further.

  8. 11

    No Time for Fascists spews:

    Florida man cites ‘Bush doctrine’ after pre-emptive killing of neighbors at Labor Day cookout

    I had to right to kill them, they looked like they might do something to me in the future and the stand your ground law allows me to do it.

    Florida: Giving the crazies more ideas, every day.

  9. 12

    rhp6033 spews:

    On another topic: This morning on the Drinking Liberally thread of a couple of days ago I posted an article whereby Volkswagon was cooperating with UAW workers seeking to organize their factory. It seems that half of the Volkswagon Supervisory Board is held by Union or other worker’s representatives, who are embarrassed that their company has a new plant in Chattanooga, Tennesee which is not unionized, whereas every other Volkswagon plant around the world is organized.

    What I found interesting about the article is that (a) despite right-to-work laws, local Republicans are scared stiff that a Union vote by the workers would be successful if the company doesn’t fight against it; (b) they admit that the only real reason they are able to lure companies to locate plants in southern states is because they aren’t unionized; and (c) the GOP seems to consider this an attack on the GOP power base, and (d) they are trying to come up with other ways to keep the union out, all of which would probably be illegal.

  10. 13


    Over in the Drinking Liberally thread, Puddystupid is having a Swedish eruption:

    It’s great to be in Sweden you HA OLYMPIAN! Friendly people, beautiful blonde haired wimens, great food and being far away from brilliant people like HA’s truth and reality-based HA HERO YLB!

    Uh.. you can see through that link the effect the local color can have on the typical right wing brain..

    Of course, the upshot is that just because Puddysilly is in a place he likes it means it’s some sort of klownservative paradise..

    Let’s examine the facts (heh. a word that the tool debases with each utterance):

    Swedes pay 70 percent of salary in taxes: study

    Damn! Did I read that right? 70 percent taxes on an income of 25,000 kr per month ($3,810)..

    Seems pretty high to me such super capitalist tax burdens. Well what do Swedes get for that?

    municipalities and the pension system consume most of what Swedes pay in taxes…

    Taxes paid directly to the state account for just under 20 percent of the worker’s tax bill, or about 40,000 kronor per year…

    Of that sum, about 1,700 kronor goes to help pay Sweden’s European Union membership fee, with an equal amount going toward foreign development aid.

    About 3,000 kronor is spent annually on education, compared with 2,500 kronor on defence and 4,200 on children and family programmes.

    Meanwhile, of the 73,000 kronor paid in local taxes annually, elderly care consumes the largest amount — 14,000 kronor, or about 19 percent — while childcare and education account for about 30,000 kronor, or 41 percent.

    Whoa nelly! Whole lotta “re-distribution” going on here. Where are the market-based solutions for these hightlighted areas (save for defense of course, klownservative love pissing away money there..)?

    In the thin gas cloud between Puddystupid’s ears apparently..

  11. 14


    Lastly, Puddysilly loves to brag about visiting his girlfriends in Sweden.. Heh.. It got me to wondering..

    How many of those “friends” are “union thugs”?

    The level of union membership in Sweden is high – at 71%

    Damn! Last time union membership rate in this country got close to HALF of that was in 1954.

    So again how many of the tool’s swedish girlfriends are “union thugs”? None perhaps.. Union busters most likely.. Maybe a couple token “union thugs” are allowed in the tool’s Swedish circle.

  12. 15

    Puddybud spews:

    Puddy is deeply in the mind of HA’s juvenile unemployed ASSHole moron arschloch! As the Swedish person said, they are NOT SOCIALIST.

    How many of those “friends” are “union thugs”?

    Puddy don’t know. Puddy don’t talk to Richard Trumka types.

    Puddy is deeply in the mind of HA’s juvenile unemployed ASSHole moron arschloch! Where did Puddy discuss visiting girlfriends? You are one sick muthafocka! Jealousy gets you nowhere. A job will get you somewhere. Goto the crazed databaze and suck your thumb you idiot!

  13. 17

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @15 “As the Swedish person said, they are NOT SOCIALIST.”

    Neither are we, n/w/s RW arguments to the contrary.

  14. 18

    Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

    Wherein puddybigot demonstrates new lows in bloodthirsty MOOSLUM hatred….

    To Iran, hostage taker, exporter of terrorism, extremist thigs…

    He is apologizing away the Iraq’s murder-by-gas of 100,000 men, women and children, Kurds and Iranians. He dismisses Reagan’s non-concern about this because Iraq was our ally and Iran wasn’t.

    The hate runs very VERY deep in him.

    What a pathetic excuse for a human being. I shudder at the mindless relgiosity and hateful goosestepping.

  15. 19

    rhp6033 spews:

    If Olympia is inundated by rising sea levels, think what it might do to Galveston, Texas.

  16. 20

    czechsaaz spews:

    As the Swedish person said, they are NOT SOCIALIST.

    Well, all the Kim’s need to do to convince Piddles is say
    Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea

  17. 21

    Gman spews:

    Here is what you do with Syria, as President of the US – you tell them the following – “We Americans want you assholes to stop fighting and make Peace. And if you can’t do that then go ahead and kill each other, may the best asshole win. And if you are the asshole who wins and you end up becoming an enemy or threat to our democracy and freedom or to the democracy and freedom of our allies we will fucking kill you.” Problem solved.

    And at this point I might back Asad because he really didn’t seem like a threat to us prior to thier civil war and some of the opposition fighters are religious radicals (we all know that we don’t need anymore religious radicals – Puffy is the perfect example) who if they win will only make the world a lot crazier. But I think I would consider bombing some of his military installations to tell him to knock it off with the WMD’s.

  18. 22

    Gman spews:

    Puffy what is your infatuation with Manning? Why do you even bring him up? I didn’t. (“Go fuck yourself Fred Thompson”…..Fred Thompson’s reverse mortgage commercial came on and I’d like to see Fred Thompson get hit by a truck). You are a senseless mother f’er.

  19. 23

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    That paragon of civic virtue, George Zimmerman, has been busted for speeding again. Meanwhile, another trigger-happy Florida yahoo carried out a pre-emptive strike against his neighbors and is claiming self-defense under the “stand your ground” law, arguing that the victim might have done something to him in the future if he hadn’t killed him.

  20. 24


    What a braindead fool our goto idiot for laughs around is making himself to be..

    Looking here we see that an American making about $42,500/yr pays an effective tax rate of 9.1 percent.. Surely higher as these are CBO figures not taking local taxes into account. So let’s say it’s a least twice that – 18.2 percent.

    Under Obama a klownservative jerk suffering from ODS (the idiot @ 15) deems this level of taxation as “socialism”.. What else could it be? Obama is in the White House, right wing idiots claim we’re overtaxed and living under socialism.

    But in the article cited in @13 a Swede making $45,700/yr has 70 percent of that taken by taxes..

    And 7 out of 10 people of working age one sees in Sweden are members of labor unions.

    And our goto moron for laughs around here calls this state of affairs in Sweden “capitalism”..

    It boggles the mind the idiocy of our goto nincompoop for laughs around here.

  21. 25


    Where did Puddy discuss visiting girlfriends?

    Didn’t you say this?

    beautiful blonde haired wimens

    But I made no assumptions – the references to “girl” are struck out..

    How SENSITIVE you are! Calm tool.. Calm..

  22. 27

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    Besides the Purple line in the DC Suburbs, another Light Rail line that the O’Malley Administration is committing to, is the Red Line in Baltimore.

    The current light rail line in Baltimore was built in the late 1980s, about the time then mayor Shaeffer was making a move to Annapolis(Governor of Maryland). It was single-traxked(since doubled), and used high floor vehicles.

  23. 28

    Gman spews:

    @24 he will be headed to Greece next to see how well Austerity has turned their economy arounnd

  24. 29


    Bad news for knee-jerk PPACA haters:

    This report –based on 17 states and the District of Columbia that have made data publicly available –provides a preview of how premiums will vary across the country, and how much consumers in different circumstances will actually pay after taking into account the tax credits available under the ACA.

    While premiums will vary significantly across the country, they are generally lower than expected. For example, we estimate that the latest projections from the Congressional Budget Office imply that the premium for a 40-year-old in the second lowest cost silver plan would average $320 per month nationally.10 Fifteen of the eighteen rating areas we examined have premiums below this level, suggesting that the cost of coverage for consumers and the federal budgetary cost for tax credits will be lower than anticipated.


    Awwwww.. Poor right wing degenerates…

  25. 30


    A profile of a Republican crook where he belongs:

    Love the picture.. And such sweet irony…

    Along the way, Crist said he wanted to make it easier for convicted felons to regain their civil rights so they can vote.

    Crist streamlined civil rights restoration, but Gov. Rick Scott and the Cabinet imposed new restrictions in 2011 that required felons to wait for five years after their release before they can seek clemency.

    Those restrictions will prevent Greer from casting a vote in 2014, and for many years to come.

    “I hope to someday get my rights restored. We’ll just have to see,” Greer said. “When I get out, I’ll just start over again as best I can.”

    Republicans keeping Republicans from voting.. Wow.. Just wow…

  26. 31


    As bad as Jim Greer was, this pisses me off to no end:

    As a self-described “true Southern man” — and reluctant recipient of food stamps — Dustin Rigsby, a struggling mechanic, hunts deer, doves and squirrels to help feed his family. He shops for grocery bargains, cooks budget-stretching stews and limits himself to one meal a day.

    Surrounded by corn and soybean farms — including one owned by the local Republican congressman, Representative Stephen Fincher — Dyersburg, about 75 miles north of Memphis, provides an eye-opening view into Washington’s food stamp debate. Mr. Fincher, who was elected in 2010 on a Tea Party wave and collected nearly $3.5 million in farm subsidies from the government from 1999 to 2012, recently voted for a farm bill that omitted food stamps.

    When will these bagger voters who are getting food stamps and limiting themselves to ONE MEAL a day wake up????

  27. 32

    Puddybud spews:

    He is apologizing away the Iraq’s murder-by-gas of 100,000 men

    SCHMUCKO loves to distort conflate and twist what others say.

    Why even engage with the pompous ASSHole?

  28. 34

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @31 Living on squirrels was their idea, so why are they surprised? At least this guy can hunt squirrels. What about people living in cities where there aren’t enough squirrels to go around?

  29. 35

    Puddybud spews:

    A description of Obummer on the world stage…

    sheer weakness



    Gets along well with Francois Hollande who also demonstrates: sheer weakness, dithering,

  30. 36


    A description of the krackpot kooky kongress on the world stage…

    sheer weakness



    Gets along with depends wearers with their hearing aids plugged into Flush Limpblows and their eyeballs glued to Faux Snooze..

  31. 38

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    This Economist article discusses welfare in America, with a particular focus on whether it disincentivizes work. Of particular note is what it says about the statistical games played by conservative propagandists in order to overstate both how much public aid the poor actually receive and its negative effects on work incentives:

    “Critics cite two objections to Cato’s methodology. First, most people on welfare do not receive all the benefits that its hypothetical single mother does. For example, only 15% of those receiving TANF benefits also receive housing benefit, which forms a huge part of the Cato package. …

    “Second, in comparing the rewards of work and welfare, the Cato study fails to take proper account of the fact that many benefits keep flowing even after the recipient has found work. In 2011 roughly 86% of children receiving Medicaid came from working families, according to the Centre on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP), a left-leaning think-tank. Most able-bodied adults in households with children that receive food stamps work.

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: It’s called “fixing facts to the policy,” and we’ve seen it before from the rightwing crowd.

  32. 39

    Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:


    SCHMUCKO loves to distort conflate and twist what others say.


    Let’s look back, shall we?

    You posted a quote of Ann Coulter (Ann Coulter! BWHAHAAHA) that criticized Kerry for opposing the attack on Saddam Hussein, yet is lobbying to attack Syria, suggesting hypocrisy. The gist of her argument was that Saddam gassed far more people that Assad has done.

    I pointed out a flaw in that critique, as Hussein’s truly horrific gassing of tens-of-thousands of Kurds and Iranians had taken place years before, in the 1980s.

    I also pointed out that Hussein’s use of poison gas did not negatively impact his relationship with the Reagan administration at all. I provided a quote from a senior officer of the Defense Intelligence Agency to support that – that Reagan didn’t have a concern at all about Saddam Hussein’s use of gas against both Iranian military targets and Kurdish and Iranian civilian men women and children.

    The obvious implication of my post and quote was that Coulter was the hypocrite, not Kerry. And that you are a complete buffoon, of course.

    You’re retort?

    Post @45 on that thread, wherein you engage in McCarthyite MOOSLUM TERRIST!! baiting, and dismiss the murder of all those innocent men, women, and children, because they were

    To Iran, hostage taker, exporter of terrorism, extremist thigs

    Did your Jesus tell you it was A-OK for Saddam to kill all those terrorist children??

  33. 40

    Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

    It’s amazing…when puddybigot gets spinning, the only consistent thread in all his babbling is the hate.