by Carl, 08/15/2013, 8:03 AM

94 Responses to “Open Thread 8/15”

2. No Time for Fascists spews:

That animated cartoon is spot on! Captures the mind set perfectly!

3. Serial conservative spews:

@ 1,2

Such joy over ‘cartoons’. Cartoons are what you watch when the real world is out earning a living, YLB. Get a job, deadbeat.

You two do realize that there are both northern and southern hemispheres, right?

How’s it going at the other pole?

Not so bad, really:

Two weeks after a new record was set in the Arctic Ocean for the least amount of sea ice coverage in the satellite record, the ice surrounding Antarctica reached its annual winter maximum—and set a record for a new high. Sea ice extended over 19.44 million square kilometers (7.51 million square miles) in 2012, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC). The previous record of 19.39 million kilometers (7.49 million square miles) was set in 2006.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=79369

I suppose someone could run a ‘cartoon’ about warmists hysteria vs. actual data. I’ll just let the NASA graph in the link speak for itself.

Go back to Bugs Bunny, YLB. More your speed.

4. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

Get a job, deadbeat.

Wow. You can’t do any better than puddybigot re-tread insults?

Pathetic.

5. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

I really find it hilarious that cheapshotBob keeps wading into climate change denialism, and looking, as usual as either really really stupid, or really really disingenuous.

Stupid. Or. Lying.

Which is it, cheapshot?

6. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

Get a job, deadbeat.

I asked puddybigot this as well, and he, of course, refused to answer.

Let’s see if you’re more forthright that the other bigot.

Tell us the specifics of what you know about YLB’s domestic situation that leads you to be comfortable screeching “Get a job, deadbeat”?

(It’s curious that you threw McKenna under the bus over that phrase, claiming that he lost your support over that incident, and here you are using it yourself. Pathologic liar, anyone?)

7. Serial conservative spews:

@ 6

Tell us the specifics of what you know about YLB’s domestic situation that leads you to be comfortable screeching “Get a job, deadbeat”?

More or less the same as the specifics people know about my bet payoff last year. Doesn’t seem to keep them from calling me a deadbeat. MBS is the worst. Any yet he wants to bet with me again. Go figure.

Select your solar contractor yet, Lib Sci?

8. Michael spews:

Serial, you’re on here all day every day and probably billing some poor sucker for the time you’re wasting. You really shouldn’t chid other people about getting a job.

9. Michael spews:

From the you can’t make this shit up files…

Michigan GOP official charged in police standoff
http://www.leadertelegram.com/news/daily_updates/article_8178a604-05a8-11e3-afc8-001a4bcf887a.html?mode=jqm

10. Serial conservative spews:

@ 5

I really find it hilarious that cheapshotBob keeps wading into climate change denialism

No denial, Lib Sci. Climate will always change. Always has, always will.

Questions that remain:

1. Is there a measurable man-made component to temperature increases (other than UHI effects, of course)?

2. Are the man-made components of catastrophic potential?

I don’t see those as having been answered adequately as yet.

I believe in conservation. For conservation’s sake. Not because I think we’re all going to drown in fiery water in 50-100 years if I don’t take three buses and a train rather than drive a car as part of my job.

I keep ‘denying’ and ‘lying’ and yet I’m the one posting from NSIDC, NOAA, NASA, DMI. Someone else posts from skepticalscience.com and you rush to defend their ‘cartoon’. There’s hilarity in that, I agree.

11. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

Wow. Once again, cheapshot doesn’t read his own links.

Excerpted from the NASA earthobservatory site…

“Both hemispheres have considerable inter-annual variability, so that in either hemisphere, next year could have either more or less sea ice than this year. Still, the long-term trends are clear, but not equal: the magnitude of the ice losses in the Arctic considerably exceed the magnitude of the ice gains in the Antarctic.

and

Small changes in winter extent may be a more mixed signal than the loss of summer sea ice extent.

Cheapshot also sez this…

You two do realize that there are both northern and southern hemispheres, right?

But he chooses not to realize, or pretends, that they behave differently.

Here is a discussion…

Essentially Arctic sea ice is more important for the earth’s energy balance because when it increasingly melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the oceans whereas Antarctic sea ice normally melts each summer leaving the earth’s energy balance largely unchanged.

I find that I cannot trust cheapshotBob to tell the truth, or to at least not deliberately mislead.

I think it’s a Republican reptilian brain thing.

12. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

…yet I’m the one posting from NSIDC, NOAA, NASA, DMI.

And you’ve been consistently exposed as either not understanding what you were linking to and/or claiming it said something it did not.

See above. You’re either really stupid, or a relentless, and not too talented, hack.

13. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

I don’t see those as having been answered adequately as yet.

It’s hard to convince anyone of anything, if it goes against where they see their wealth coming from, to paraphrase.

14. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

More or less the same as the specifics people know about my bet payoff last year.

“More or less the same…”

HA! Artful false equivalence, from the master.

I believe the bet included a requirement for a middle-man, which you did not use, and instead offered some other ‘proof’ of your payment, and demanded that that be good enough.

No, not more or less the same.

So, we do know that you know nothing of YLB’s domestic situation, and yet feel comfortable sneering, “Get a Job, deadbeat.”

It must feel pathetic, down deep, having Bobbie McKenna as your role-model.

15. No Time for Fascists spews:

Serial “Why can’t see I’m the Victim here” Conn’s argument sucks so bad that he have to attack YLB’s character? Typical. A reaction like that signals that the cartoon was exactly right and he knows it.

If Serial “Why can’t see I’m the Victim here” Conn had bothered to research this at all outside of the conservative talking points….

http://www.skepticalscience.com/antarctica-gaining-ice.htm
There is variation between regions within Antarctica (Figure 2, top panel), with the West Antarctic Ice Sheet and the Antarctic Peninsula Ice Sheet losing ice mass, and with an increasing rate. The East Antarctic Ice Sheet is growing slightly over this period but not enough to offset the other losses. There are of course uncertainties in the estimation methods but independent data from multiple measurement techniques (explained here) all show the same thing, Antarctica is losing land ice as a whole, and these losses are accelerating quickly.

Want to see if Serial “Why can’t see I’m the Victim here” Conn will ignore most of study and only reference the part that said the East Antarctic Ice Sheet is growing so all other data must be wrong, or will he be honest and admit that he was pushing a right wing talking point.

16. No Time for Fascists spews:

Ahh, the argument shifts from “There is no proof of climate change” to “You can’t prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that WE are causing it.”

The second part was insightful, that he doesn’t want to be inconvienced in any way, or have to in any way sacrifice.
Reminds me of my question of what should we do to help unemployed people and his response was “You better not raise my taxes.”
Isn’t that a definition of selfish and greedy?

17. Serial conservative spews:

@ 16

…his response was “You better not raise my taxes.”
Isn’t that a definition of selfish and greedy?

Not true. My response was that the next time you want to raise my taxes, be ready to raise your own as well. Funny how you keep leaving out the part where I’m willing to do my part but I want it to be a widely shared sacrifice, not just some people screaming for someone else to solve their problem.

Do you comprehend the difference, NTfF?

18. No Time for Fascists spews:

I get the difference. I’m a patriot, I pay my taxes. I expect that we differ strongly in that I believe in steeply progressive taxes.

If I make more that you do, I should pay proportionally more taxes that you do and yet I still will have more money that you.

19. czechsaaz spews:

@3

Do you ever get tired of peddling the same line.

Temporary sea ice and permanent millenia old ice on the continent are NOT the same thing. The permanent is declining rapidly while the temporary is increasing in winter.

the annual freeze melt freeze has no effect on sea level rise. For fucks sake it was only a couple days ago you were scooped on this. The observable sea level change is rising. The permanent ice is melting.

20. EvergreenRailfan spews:

In New Jersey, New Jersey Transit’s Assistant Chief Dispatcher retired last month. He said if it weren’t for health problems limiting his mobility, he said he wouldn’t have ended his 65 year career. A career that started when Steam locomotives, interlocking towers, and written train orders hooped up to the engineer after the station operator had typed them up while listening to the dispatcher phone calls were the norm. In fact, the railroads had just upgraded to the telephone at the time. A very long career indeed.
http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/commuter-regional/njts-frank-bookstaver-from-steam-to-state-of-the-art.html?channel=55

21. Roger Rabbit spews:

@10 Those questions have been answered, Doctor Bob, and only dumbasses like you continue to disbelieve that MAN-MADE pollution is causing global warming. Geez, man, just look out your window at the Cascades. Do they have as much snow on them as they did 30 years ago? Do you know how to read a chart trend?

C’mon, Dimbulb, acknowledging anthropogenic climate warming isn’t that difficult. Virtually all of the world’s reputable climatologists say it’s happening. The data are irrefutable. But you don’t have to be a scientist, just look out your frikken window, there isn’t as much snow on the mountains as there used to be.

What’s going to happen when there’s no longer enough snowpack in the mountains to keep the Columbia River flowing? No electricity. No irrigation water. That’s going to be interesting.

22. Serial conservative spews:

@ 18

I’m a patriot, I pay my taxes.

Er, you’re a Joe Biden mouthpiece. If you are going to parrot someone, you sure you want it to be him?

You seem to think I have an aversion to taxes. I don’t. I don’t even have an aversion to higher taxes, provided

1) higher taxation be very broadly applied.
2) the money not be spent stupidly once collected.

You want to raise my taxes by another 5% ? Fine. But yours should go up 2-3%. That fits with progressivity and proportionately higher taxation of higher earners.

We’re not that far off. You just need to be honest enough to admit that to really do something to reduce the deficit, higher taxation of virtually all earners will be necessary. Otherwise you’re just a parrot for your side.

You want me to cough up more? Fine. You, too. Let’s do it together.

23. Roger Rabbit spews:

@12 Doctor Dimbulb is definitely a hack.

24. Roger Rabbit spews:

@17 The rich got all the tax cuts, so why shouldn’t they get all the tax increases?

That’s a pretty cute argument you’ve got there, Doctor Bob. What you’re saying is, rich people got tax cuts so we need to balance that by raising taxes on poor and middle class people. Very cute.

This is exactly the kind of tax burden shifting Republicans have been plumping for ever since taxes were invented. Cut mine, raise yours to make up the difference. How public-spirited of them.

We know what Republicans believe about taxes. They believe corporations, estates, capital gains, dividends, interest, and rents shouldn’t be taxed. That leaves two things they’re willing to tax: Wages, and sales or VAT taxes on the things wage earners buy.

In other words, they don’t want to pay any taxes at all; to paraphrase Leona Helmsley “only the little people” should pay taxes.

What a bunch of greedy self-serving assholes.

25. Roger Rabbit spews:

You can’t reason with greedy self-serving assholes. Nor can you expect them to be reasonable. Which means you can’t negotiate or compromise with them, either. There are only two ways to deal with these fuckers. Number one, don’t let them take away your right to vote (believe me, they’re trying). Number two, don’t vote for them. There’s more of us than them, so the 99% can run this country if we don’t let the 1% push us around. They’ll never change, so it’s up to us to marginalize them.

26. Darryl spews:

Bob,

Here is a perfect example of your disingenuousness:

“No denial, Lib Sci. Climate will always change. Always has, always will.”

Liberal Scientist never questioned whether you believed in natural climate change. Even the fucking flat earthers acknowledge that.

The context of the discussion makes it clear that he was talking about anthropogenic climate change. You knew that, and yet you pretended otherwise.

This is, fundamentally, dishonestly from you.

“1. Is there a measurable man-made component to temperature increases (other than UHI effects, of course)?”

Saying that this is a “Question that remains” is utter bullshit and shows your lack of understanding of both the underlying science and the nature of the scientific side of the debate.

Frankly, the empirical evidence for anthropogenic climate change isn’t something you are at all qualified to answer. There are thousands of scientists who have received the specialized training in fields like physics and statistics and are able to test empirical evidence against the underlying thermodynamic theory. There is a flood of papers that provide critical tests using empirical data, and have failed to falsify the theory.

The notion that you could independently integrate the resulting data on a global scale for many very different types of observations and objectively evaluate whether they are consistent with changes in the distribution of heat energy by altitude that is predicted for different concentrations of CO2 is laughable. You barely understand the concept of statistical significance, as suggested by the inane points you were making before your most recent “sabbatical” from HA.

But, my main point here is that anthropogenic climate change science is not, fundamentally, an empirical science. There is strong, very specific, theory built from simple thermodynamics and the basic physics of energy transfer between infrared radiation and molecules with resonant frequencies in the infrared spectrum.

It is possible that the theory is fundamentally wrong. But, there are thousands of scientists from many disciplines who have thought about better theory—the prestige of replacing the current theory is HUGE…and fundamentally, Scientists work for prestige.

Instead, all we get are occasional small improvements to the orthodox theory. That is, there has been no “earthshaking” alternative that explains the empirical evidence equally well.

If the theory is correct (as seems quite likely) there is one other possibility that will minimize the effects of anthropogenic climate change: hitherto unknown naturally-occurring negative feedback mechanisms that kick-in along the way and restore the surface temperature profile.

There are many scientists who have thought about this possibility as well. So far, nobody has proposed or demonstrated a mechanism that would overcome the basic phenomenon and the condescending positive feedback mechanisms.

In short: People who claim they are waiting for empirical evidence for global warming are amateurs without any real comprehension of what the actual debates are in the field. What will change our understanding of the effect on increasing concentrations of infrared-to-heat transducers (like CO2) in our atmosphere are either a new theoretical understanding of the process or the discovery of natural compensating mechanisms.

“2. Are the man-made components of catastrophic potential?”

This question was answered by climatological research in the 1970, and it wasn’t even concerned with greenhouse gasses (although the principles apply equally). At that time, the main concern then was the increase in aerosol loading. Essentially, the change in heat distribution of the atmosphere results in long-term changes in upper air currents. That results is broad latitudinal shifts in climate.

The question is whether these regional climate shifts are catastrophic. In the short run they lead to regional famines and low agricultural productivity.

“I don’t see those as having been answered adequately as yet.”

Indeed…you aren’t knowledgeable enough in the field to even evaluate the current theories or empirical evidence.

“I keep ‘denying’ and ‘lying’ and yet I’m the one posting from NSIDC, NOAA, NASA, DMI.”

Yes, you did. You just failed to understand what you were posting. Essentially, the article strongly contradicted the meaning you got out of it. Your attempts to have a dialog on this topic reminds me of Otto in A Fish Called Wanda:

Otto West: Apes don’t read philosophy!

Wanda: Yes they do, Otto. They just don’t understand it. Now let me correct you on a couple of things, OK? Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not “Every man for himself.” And the London Underground is not a political movement.

“Someone else posts from skepticalscience.com and you rush to defend their ‘cartoon’. There’s hilarity in that, I agree.”

So…you agree that someone posted a funny, satirical statement on how people like you view the evidence.

What I thought was amusing is that you jumped in with additional “evidence” that turns out to not support your viewpoint at all. It’s really the same phenomena depicted by the cartoon!

27. Serial conservative spews:

@ 21, 23

I’m supposed to look out the window so I can accept your argument?

Try that with UW’s Cliff Mass. He doesn’t buy it, necessarily.

http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2012/06/cascade-melt-out.html

What Cliff Mass is saying is that there’s plenty of room for discussion.

Now, I will allow that I believe that man-made CO2 production is responsible for a lot of the CO2 increase in the atmosphere. But that’s a different argument.

Might as well wait for IPCC 5. There will be a lot more discussion about solar influence and a fair amount less about greenhouse gas influence, particularly since the models have seemed to significantly overestimate the latter.

28. Roger Rabbit spews:

@26 The question of whether climate change will be catastrophic has a very simple answer. Existing patterns of human settlement are a product of centuries of warfare. When climate shift changes where the productive agricultural areas are, people whose land no longer supports them will try to muscle their way into productive lands, and the people already living there will fight to keep them out. Climate change means massive human dislocation and widespread warfare.

29. Roger Rabbit spews:

@27 Yes. Anyone whose fat ass hasn’t been glued to a sofa for the last 40 years, who gets out and does a little hiking, can see for themselves that our Cascade alpine glaciers and snowfields are steadily shrinking. It doesn’t take a scientist to see the climate is getting warmer around here.

30. Roger Rabbit spews:

This may be a bit too subtle for simpletons like you, Bob, but nearly all the water in the Columbia River comes from melting winter snowpack. If that snowpack isn’t there … no water, no river. And that means no hydropower and no Columbia Basin agriculture.

31. Roger Rabbit spews:

@27 Bob, we’re not going to let people like you run the world. That’s a job for grownups. There’s too much at stake.

32. Serial conservative spews:

@ 26

Observations aren’t matching models. GHG were apparently substantially over-emphasized and solar influences apparently under-emphasized last time around.

Some of this will be addressed in IPCC5. Some of it won’t.

I see no problem in being unwilling participant in tanking our economy because of frantic warnings of NYC and London under water in the next century if we don’t. I’d be more of a believer if the models matched reality, or even came close, so we wouldn’t have to act like ice melts in the Arctic only started in 1979 and so we wouldn’t have to resort to cartoons to try to make our points.

We’ve seen a prominently featured hockey stick graph in IPCC3 disappear by the time IPCC4 rolled around. We’ve seen email exchanges amongst very prominent researchers conspiring to exclude from publication the work of researchers with whom they disagree. We’ve seen major pronouncements based on rings from a single tree, which seem not to match very well to the trees around it. We’ve seen researchers refusing to make public their data in violation of the rules of the publication to which their work was submitted. We’ve seen Gleickian idiocy trying to discredit the other side. We’ve seen more homogenization of raw temperature data than can be followed, once the questions are asked.

If it was so obvious, Science-settled and all, would all that be necessary?

33. MikeBoyScout spews:

@6 Serial RENEGER,

More or less the same as the specifics people know about my bet payoff last year. Doesn’t seem to keep them from calling me a deadbeat. MBS is the worst. Any yet he wants to bet with me again. Go figure.

Figuring ain’t your strong suit, dipweed.

I don’t want to bet with you again, because you are a RENEGER.

You have not paid off the wager you lost when your prediction of an Rmoney/Ryan victory in November failed to appear.

You’ve got some cock and bull story about how you did because you did it secretly, but you did not.

And I’m sorry I’m your worst bill collector. No doubt you’ve stiffed many.

34. MikeBoyScout spews:

@26 Serial RENEGER – also, too serially stoopid,

I see no problem in being unwilling participant in tanking our economy…

To the extent you have any validity questioning the impacts of human generated CO2 to global climate change because of insufficient and/or contradictory evidence, your entire premise is based upon the totally bullshit notion that corrective action would ‘tank our economy’.

Let me grant you this Bob, your continued breathing is an observation that Darwin’s model may be flawed.

35. MikeBoyScout spews:

Roger, piece of legal advice please.

Would it be out of the question to use a SYG defense for a potential manslaughter charge in FL if one emitted high volumes of totally harmless CO2 into a relatively well insulated domicile holding cheapshot serially RENEGING Bob? I mean, some think unregulated human emission of CO2 is harmless … , but if it were not?

36. Darryl spews:

Bob @ 32,

“Observations aren’t matching models.”

Really? Please cite the peer review journal article that falsifies the current body of theory.

“GHG were apparently substantially over-emphasized and solar influences apparently under-emphasized last time around.”

This doesn’t make sense, and betrays utter ignorance of the underlying mechanisms involved. GHG doesn’t compete with solar influences. Nearly all surface heat is solar in origin. GHGs just act as transducers that convert a particular spectrum of electromagnetic radiation into heat. GHGs don’t add or subtract heat, they just change its distribution in the atmosphere.

“Some of this will be addressed in IPCC5. Some of it won’t.”

What does this mean? IPCC5 isn’t the basic science. Rather it comprehensively reviews the science from the primary literature (and then considers policy consequences). If there is some weakening of the theory that will be included in IPCC5, please point to the original paper in the primary literature that supposedly will result in a significantly changed interpretation of anthropogenic climate change from the IPCC.

“I’d be more of a believer if the models matched reality, or even came close, so we wouldn’t have to act like ice melts in the Arctic only started in 1979″

I think the only people who claim “Arctic ice melts only started in 1979″ are nutburgers like you setting up straw-man arguments. If you disagree, please show me a paper in the primary literature that makes such a claim.

“and so we wouldn’t have to resort to cartoons to try to make our points.”

Your misunderstanding. The cartoon was not making a point about climate change. It was making a point about nutjobs who cherry pick evidence and think they have falsified anthropogenic climate change. That is a very different undertaking that falls under the topic of sociology (and, perhaps, psychopathology), rather than meteorology climatology.

“We’ve seen a prominently featured hockey stick graph in IPCC3 disappear by the time IPCC4 rolled around.”

No we haven’t. The figure has had new sources of data incorporated into it compared toolder versions. IPCC4 still concludes:

Warming of the climate system is unequivocal, as is now evident from observations of increases in global average air and ocean temperatures, widespread melting of snow and ice, and rising global average sea level (see Figure SPM.3).

Here is figure SPM.3 (click for larger version):

Globaltemp

Huh…is that a “hockey stick” I see on top?!?

“We’ve seen email exchanges amongst very prominent researchers conspiring to exclude from publication the work of researchers with whom they disagree.”

So?!? There are thousands of researchers and hundreds of publication outlets. Even if the email wasn’t taken-out-of-context bullshit, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual science.

“We’ve seen major pronouncements based on rings from a single tree, which seem not to match very well to the trees around it.”

So? There are, collectively, tens of thousands of tree-ring samples that provide an empirical record.

“We’ve seen researchers refusing to make public their data in violation of the rules of the publication to which their work was submitted.”

So? We have thousands of data sets that provide ways of empirically testing the theory. Even if this were true for a handfull of research teams, it has no bearing on the actual SCIENCE.

“We’ve seen Gleickian idiocy trying to discredit the other side.”

So? That isn’t the science. Just because I regularly discredit you doesn’t mean I cannot do proper science.

“We’ve seen more homogenization of raw temperature data than can be followed, once the questions are asked.”

This doesn’t even make sense.

“If it was so obvious, Science-settled and all, would all that be necessary?”

Knock off the childish bullshit. This is tantamount to saying, “We’ve got the human “gene map”…why do research in genetics anymore?”

37. MikeBoyScout spews:

@36 Darryl,
I have to differ on a small point.
The cartoon was not making a point about climate change.
and (see Figure SPM.3).

Bob clearly needs and relies primarily upon graphics for understanding. Despite his ability to spell “homogenization“, words and their meaning are alien to him.

38. czechsaaz spews:

So the Secretary of State in Colorado sent a list of “Fraudulent” voters to the D.A. in Boulder and requested they be reviewed for prosecution.

You’ll never believe what happened….oh wait, you’ll totally believe it.

17 voters listed as non-citizens and ineligible. 17 of whom were easily identifiable as citizens.

The .005% of votes deemed ineligible by the Secretary of State (Republican of course.) is down to .004%. But hey, what’s spending government dollars on investigating 155 votes. Some of those races actually were decided by .005% margin. When Republicans speak of waste in government spending do they include this?

Voter Fraud!!!! Y’ARRRRGH!!!

39. Roger Rabbit spews:

@35 Just make sure the CO2 stays within breathable levels but is enough to make the container unbearably hot and you should be okay.

40. czechsaaz spews:

Between 2000 and 2010, there were:
649 million votes cast in general elections
47,000 UFO sightings
441 Americans killed by lightning
13 credible cases of in-person voter impersonation

H/T to Mother Jones via Slog

41. Puddybud spews:

Meanwhile in other news the WaPo “LOVES” them some McAuliffe…

GreenTech relies heavily on financing from wealthy foreigners, many of them Chinese, who pony up at least $500,000 each through a federal program designed to attract overseas investors. In return for their investments, they receive U.S. visas and may become eligible for permanent residency green cards.

TheEB-5 visa program is legal; it’s been operating since 1990 with bipartisan support. The troubling question is whether GreenTech, as conceived by Mr. McAuliffe, is a serious and viable automotive enterprise or mainly a scheme to attract foreign investment capital and serve Mr. McAuliffe’s political agenda.

Puddy guesses those two government investigations (Department of Homeland Security Inspector General and Securities and Exchange Commission) are finally getting traction at the soon to be Jeff Bezos owned paper!

42. tensor spews:

Wow, block-quoting Eat The State! for a link. They were last relevant in what, 1997? And they can’t seem to figure out if the tunnel is a state project or not! You must really be bitter over losing that fake election you insisted we have.

43. Michael spews:

@41

VA is going to vote themselves a Democrat into the governors’ mansion in the fall. The Republian currently residing at that address is a disgrace and the Republican running to replace him wants to ban oral sex.

The Dem isn’t much to write home about, but he’s a hell of a lot better than anyone the Republicans have on offer.

44. Steve spews:

“Stupid. Or. Lying.”

I don’t know, Lib Sci. After commenting over at (un)SP for awhile, I think that should read,

“Stupid. Lying. Or. Crazy.”

They’ve got some damned crazy people over there.

45. EvergreenRailfan spews:

43)Usually control of Richmond goes to the party who did not win the White House. Although the way the GOP nominated their slate of candidates this year, may backfire.

46. Steve spews:

Glory be to Stalin! Our Washington Eco-Fascist-Commies beat the Texas Secessionists 8 – 4 today in the Little League World Series.

47. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

@26,36

Thank you, Darryl – you do yeoman’s work with our resident representative of the right-wing ‘intelligentsia’.

What a buffoon.

Hopefully your work here today, like the time before, will result in him disappearing for a few months.

48. Steve spews:

Gawd, I found Mark Musser. Remember him? He was the BIAW tard who wrote that nasty screed in 2007 hating on cookie-munching, little old lady eco-terrorists and liberal-fascism.

http://www.americanthinker.com/mark_musser/

Articles By Mark Musser
•The Snows of Rainier
•The Easter Mythology of Modern Progressivism
•The Historicity of the Resurrection of Christ
•Getting Gored: Michael Mann’s Apocalyptic Prophecies and Al Jazeera’s Green Jihad
•An Eco-Fascist Gassing Experiment with Diesel Fumes at the EPA
•The Green Nazi Tycoon Alfred Toepfer
•Green Lebensraum: The Nazi Roots of Sustainable Development
•Friedrich Nietzsche and His Proto-Nazi Eco-Fascism
•The Greens, Religion, and Science
•The Green Nazi Deep Ecology of Martin Heidegger
•The Green Nazis
•The Nazi Origins of Apocalyptic Global Warming Theory
•The Original Enviro-Nazis

Get a load of those titles! “Green Jihad”!! Yup, that’s Musser. Fucktard.

49. Puddybud spews:

This is gonna hurt many HA loons. Puddy came across this global warming paper… Did that paper admit only 36% of the world’s engineers and geoscientists now believe that humans are creating a global warming crisis? Did that paper admit almost 1100 respondents believe GAIA is the primary cause of recent global warming (the 64%ers)? Noooooooooooooo! With all those footnotes it looks very peer reviewed.

And all can see the biases of the survey takers. Anyone who isn’t part of the 36% group are called deniers (HA loons favorite comment), and that seems to be the vast majority of the survey respondents. Hmmm…? Seems the survey people classify people in three categories:

Lovers of Global warming

Denier scientists who question IPCC asserted global warming, the vast right-wing climate denial machine. Well it seems these surveyors are not part of that group!

Skeptical scientists who speak out against climate science not those who speak out against the East Anglia hockey stick asserted climate projections of Phil Jones and friends in NASA like James Hanson.

The bottom line is there are now more geoscientists, meteorologists, and engineers responding they are skeptics of an asserted IPCC and East Anglia global warming crisis. Butt what do you see in the libtard media? The leftist organization non-scientists who continue to suck the media and suck government bureaucrats telling “us” the exact opposite of the actual beliefs of most of their scientist members.

50. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

With all those footnotes it looks very peer reviewed.

You really wrote that. You really did.

You apparently have no clue what you’ve just revealed about your understanding and ability, or lack thereof, to discuss technical/scientific/academic literature .

51. Puddybud spews:

Wow. You can’t do any better than puddybigot re-tread insults?

Retread? The truth is a retread SCHMUCKO? All can see you are HA’s unemployed ASSHOLE moron’s personal apologist! Why don’t you give him a job SCHMUCKO? He can write some great goto code for your computer!

52. Puddybud spews:

You apparently have no clue what you’ve just revealed about your understanding and ability, or lack thereof, to discuss technical/scientific/academic literature .

All can see the material in question blows apart the screed of SCHMUCKO and others. Instead it’s another ad hominem attack on Puddy!

So sad and so typical!

53. Puddybud spews:

Hey SCHMUCKO, you scream all the time over stuff not peer reviewed. Now we have a REAL leftist peer reviewed study and oh no attack Puddy for finding it!

So sad and so typical!

54. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

Now we have a REAL leftist peer reviewed study

Does the act of peer-review make something leftist?

Is that a corollary of the observation that facts have a well-known liberal bias?

55. Darryl spews:

Person Playing Puddybud,

Your character forgot one important detail…the research was on engineers and geoscientists employed in the petroleum industry. You know…the industry that is also known as the “global warming industry.”

As the authors point out:

Our study demonstrates that the majority of ‘command posts’ (Zald & Lounsbury, 2010, p. 963) within organizations, especially in the petroleum industry, seem to be manned with opponents to the IPCC and anthropogenic climate science who are actively engaged in defensive institutional work.

What will be the next great PuddyDiscovery? That 68% of prostitutes believe that anti-prostitution laws are unfair????

56. Puddybud spews:

Does the act of peer-review make something leftist?

Their comments do though!

57. Darryl spews:

Person Playing Puddybud,

One other thing. Since when has your character been a global warming denier? I distinctly recall him/her acknowledging that it empirically seemed to be happening.

Oh…wait. Here it is:

The only thing MTR has wrong is global warming. MTR I flew over some of the Greenland glaciers, you can see the recession.

Please…if you are going to engage in role-playing, at least be consistent.

58. Darryl spews:

Person playing Puddybud @ 56:

“Their comments do though!”

Huh? This makes no sense.

Who does “their” refer to?

59. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

Looking at your links, puddybigot, and one finds all sorts of interesting things….like falling down the rabbit hole.

The first author, Lianne Lefsrud, is at the University of Alberta School of Business, and formerly worked in the oil and gas industry.

Despite this, she may be a bona fide honest academic with truth to tell. Let’s look…

If you follow the link to her FORBES blog member page, you find a link to a hack named James Taylor, who is pushing her paper as you do – as some sort of attack on the notion of scientific consensus on anthropogenic climate change.

Well, she had this to tell him…

Our study is located in a very specific context and not a representative survey – it should not be used as such. Moreover, our data is from 2007 and the science and policy positions have since shifted in Alberta, Canada as elsewhere.

and this…

…contrary to your statements, we did find an astounding level of consensus amongst these engineers and geoscientists regarding climate change. Almost all believe that climate change is happening, and the majority also believe that anthropogenic factors are either the main or a contributing cause.

Did you read their methods, puddybigot?

The paper describes a survey of the members of APEGA – The Association of Professional Engineers and Geoscientists of Alberta.

God damn you’re stupid.

When you look into the other author, Renate E. Meyer, a professor at Vienna University of Economics and Business, you find all sorts of other buffoons misrepresenting their work, and that of others, as well.

When you follow the latter link, and its link to a Nature paper it ‘discusses’ you realize that misunderstanding/misrepresenting actual academic discourse is a rightard cottage industry.

So, I have to conclude, that yes, you really are that stupid, puddybigot.

60. Puddybud spews:

Your character forgot one important detail…the research was on engineers and geoscientists employed in the petroleum industry. You know…the industry that is also known as the “global warming industry.”

That’s all you got Da Perfessa?

61. Darryl spews:

Person Playing Puddybud,

“That’s all you got Da Perfessa?”

Nope. I can continue humiliating your character over this for hours!

BreakingPuddyNews: Three out of four scientists working for R.J. Reynolds believe smoking is harmless!!!

62. czechsaaz spews:

@60

Tonight Piddle’s character is The Black Knight.

“You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what’s coming to you! I’ll bite your legs off.”

63. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

@49
Puddybigot wrote this…

Did that paper admit only 36% of the world’s engineers and geoscientists now believe that humans are creating a global warming crisis?

Yet when it’s pointed out that the study population is not the “world’s engineers and geoscientists”, but rather 1100 petroleum engineers in Alberta, all he has is…

That’s all you got Da Perfessa?

He’s too stupid to know when the legs have been kicked out from beneath him.

As the lead author of the paper says…

Our study is located in a very specific context and not a representative survey – it should not be used as such.

Yes, puddybigot is that stupid.

64. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

@62

That’s exactly what I was thinking!

“It’s only a flesh wound…”

65. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

The thing is, puddybigot will learn nothing from this, experience no shame over this stupidity, will be back tomorrow (or later tonight) with more rightard drivel.

I think he must have absolutely no self respect.

66. YLB spews:

All can see you are HA’s empowered HERO’s personal apologist!

Darn it LS! You spoiled it..

I was waiting for him to pull out that old

“no one comes to your defense”

I love it when he does that!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

67. Carl spews:

@42,

Come on, that’s a solid opening paragraph no matter where it appeared. But ETS’s, and Geov’s in particular, institutional memory and staying power are worth something. But even without those, I try to have a wide variety of sources in the Open Thread. Also, FWIW, I’ve linked to Jean Godden supporting the tunnel in past Open Threads.

68. YLB spews:

Liberal parents let their daughter RUN WILD.. What will out goto moron for laughs around here do?

My mother was helping me fold clothes into my suitcases when she started clearing her throat. “So, Careen, um … you’re about to go to, um, Denmark. And, you know, they’re a lot more open about, um, sex over there. So, you know, um, if there’s anything you want to ask me …”

I quickly reassured her that I knew everything I needed to know. She smiled in relief, changed the subject, and we finished packing.

So imagine my surprise — after moving in with a gregarious Danish family in their big, rambling house on the outskirts of Copenhagen — when I observed that my younger Danish host brother, at age 15, had a girlfriend who would frequently eat dinner with us … and eat breakfast with us again the next morning. She was spending the night. In his room. And his parents were OK with it. And so, presumably, were hers. I knew Denmark was going to be different, but I hadn’t been prepared for this.

and BINGO!

After some months in Denmark, I fell in love with a tall, 19-year-old blond named Peter…
One Friday night, after a late dinner, it seemed just as natural for him to spend the night rather than driving back home, which was at least a 30-minute commute.

So now the “librul” parents arrive on the scene..

My parents came to visit me in Denmark in the spring of my year abroad, staying in my host family’s house. The first morning after their arrival, my mother came into my bedroom, just like she had always done when I was growing up, to wake me up. She was surprised to find Peter in my bed, and mumbled a quick greeting before swiftly taking her leave.

Oooops.. That was awkward.. But wait a sec.. Maybe the parents are “schizophrenic”…

Fast-forward a year later. I’m home for the summer after my first year in college. Peter has come to visit me. My parents greet him warmly. But when I start to take his suitcase upstairs, assuming that he will stay in my room, my father steps in, grabs the suitcase, and takes it and Peter down to the guest room in the basement. That is where they expect him to stay for the duration of his visit. Peter and I quickly decide that we want to embark early on our planned cross-country driving trip, and leave the next day.

Damn! A house divided cannot stand.. The moral of the story being:

Maybe it’s no surprise that the Danes have been called the happiest people in the world. We could learn a thing or two from them. I certainly did.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! One thing I know for sure. It sure is DAMNED miserable in this jerk’s house…

According to our goto jerk for laughs around here that happy young lady is a “nympho slut”..

How freaking sad it is to be our goto idiot for laughs around here.

69. EvergreenRailfan spews:

In Australia, there is one thing in the upcoming election that Labor and the Liberal/National coalition can agree on, they don’t want a fourth party in the House of Representatives. Under the ranked voting system that Australia uses, combined with compulsory preferences, parties have to rank their opponents somewhere. So the Liberals have chosen to put the Greens in last place, and Labor wants the Melbourne seat the Greens won last time bsck.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/18499949/greens-placed-last-on-coalition-ticket/

70. Roger Rabbit spews:

@60 “That’s all you got Da Perfessa?”

It’s a stake through the heart of your argument. How much more does it take to kill vampire ideologies like yours? Let it die already.

71. EvergreenRailfan spews:

Earlier this year, former PM Gillard sacked the Labor Party’s top candidate for Senate in the Northern Territory, and since the Northern Territory and the Australian Capitol Territory each only get two Senate seats, while the states get 12, with 6 up for election this year, it is almost a done deal. Current PM Kevin Rudd did not reverse the decision, even though the current Senator was one of his supporters. The NTs Senate seats usually are split,cwith Labor winning one, and the Country Liberals winning the other. The person who is now at the top of the ticket could be Labors first Indigenous Australian elected in either house. Three years ago, a Liberal from Western Australia became the first Indigenous Australian elected.
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/kevin-rudd-backs-captains-pick-candidate-nova-peris-20130709-2pnkj.html

72. EvergreenRailfan spews:

One of Amtrak’s top preformers in July was the Milwaukee-Chicago Hiawatha. YTD ridership is down on this route, but not by much. There were plans to extend it to Madison, and eventually the Twin Cities, but that was before Walker. The current route is too short, less than 100 miles.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/amtraks-hiawatha-route-tops-monthly-ridership-record-in-july-b9975764z1-219778801.html

73. Gman spews:

No surprise that Puffy runs away with his tail between his legs and his head looking backwards.

74. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

Ouch! Former Ombudsperson at the WaPo offers Bezos some unsolicited advise….

Have Fred Hiatt, your editorial page editor—who I like, admire, and respect—fire opinion blogger Jennifer Rubin.

Really? Why?

Not because she’s conservative, but because she’s just plain bad. She doesn’t travel within a hundred miles of Post standards. She parrots and peddles every silly right-wing theory to come down the pike in transparent attempts to get Web hits. Her analysis of the conservative movement…is shallow and predictable.

Wow, that’s gotta hurt. What about her accuracy?

And she is often wrong, and rarely acknowledges it.

Oh.

What to do?

Dump her like a dull tome on the Amazon Bargain Books page.

Well…there you have it, from the guy entrusted with overseeing the relationship between the readers and the paper.

75. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

FEAR TEH GAY MAFIA!!

Fairness is nothing but a trick word
.

I’m glad puddybigot is on the fat, bigoted preacherman’s side of this, and I’m not.

76. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

BREAKING….

RNC further marginalizes itself, unanimously votes to exclude NBC and CNN from primary debate coverage.

Now, crazy clown car to be live only on Fox, and other networks will only get gaffe and chuckle highlights from the show, to play in loop over and over….

Clearly geenyus stratergery.

77. MikeBoyScout spews:

Schmader over at the SLOG catches this
Signature Gatherer For Preserve Marriage Washington Faces Felony Charges After Allegedly Faking Signatures on Petitions to Get Ref. 74 on the Ballot

Good to know that so called conservatives are so very concerned about electoral integrity.

78. Gman spews:

@76 the Gay Mafia should not only be feared, but it works in mysterious ways. Clearly the Gay Mafia had something to do with this.

79. MikeBoyScout spews:

@76, Well I heard from Reince Priebus, RNC chairman and obvious anagram, that the Republican Party is “horrific” and “obviously racist”, so I’m not sure either CNN or NBC would put Republican douche bags on the teevee.

80. MikeBoyScout spews:

Popcorn Futures! That may be the only financial instrument which is safe from Republican economic devastation.

Conservative Group Mobilizes Against McConnell on Obamacare

A conservative group is readying a statewide ad campaign that attacks Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell for failing to back the push to defund President Obama’s signature health care law, even if that means shutting down the government.
[...]
The Senate Conservatives Fund, which was created by former Sen. Jim DeMint, who now runs the Heritage Foundation, has not endorsed in the McConnell race but has flirted with backing his challenger. The group spent millions on the 2012 elections.

In an interview, executive Director Matt Hoskins said the drive to defund the health care law is of critical importance. And he accused McConnell, who has not backed the effort, of trying to thwart the work of others behind the scenes.

“This issue is a major test for Mitch McConnell, and he has failed conservatives time and time again,” Hoskins said. “And if he fails them again on this issue—the most important issue—then I think a lot of people in Kentucky and across the country are going to want an alternative.”

Hail Leader!

81. rhp6033 spews:

Remember Tim Eyman claiming that there was “no evidence” of abuse by paid signature gatherers? I seems that the police and prosecutors beg to differ, with at least one case of rather rampant fraud by a signature gatherer paid for by Eyman (revoking Gay Rights in Washington) and requiring a 2/3 majority for any taxes.

One signature gatherer said she considered it a victimless crime, as she took most of the names she subjitted from the telephone books and forged those signaturs. She told investigators she needed the money.

Prosecutors said that there may be many more such cases, but in some cases they could not identify who gathered the signatures.

Paid Signature Gatherers Caught Faking Names

82. MikeBoyScout spews:

2012 GOP Presidential runner-up and de facto 2016 GOP Presidential presumptive nominee, Rick Santorum informs us that if you think you are Middle Class, you are some kind of “Marxist”.

via Steve Benen

83. Darryl spews:

MikeBoyScout,

“Well I heard from Reince Priebus, RNC chairman and obvious anagram

Rep. be urine (sic)

84. MikeBoyScout spews:

@83 Darryl,
I shamelessly stole “obvious anagram, Reince Priebus” from the one and only Charles Pierce.

But yes. :-D

85. EvergreenRailfan spews:

One thing that Priebus hasn’t noticed, is the programs they got a problem with, have not been written or produced. He should be waiting until after they are maid. One of them is supposedly being done by somebody who thinks Hillary Clinton is too corporatist.

86. Roger Rabbit spews:

@81 North Carolina just outlawed paid voter registrations. So, Republicans are people who believe paying people to register voters should be against the law, but paying people to collect signatures for anti-government initiatives shouldn’t be. GOP double standard again.

87. Roger Rabbit spews:

Snowden Was Right

“The National Security Agency broke privacy rules and exceeded its legal authority thousands of times since it was given new powers in 2008, according to top secret documents leaked by Edward Snowden, The Washington Post reported Thursday. The Post said most of the breaches involved unauthorized surveillance of Americans or foreign intelligence targets in the United States.”

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/16/20049327-report-nsa-spying-broke-privacy-rules-thousands-of-times?lite

Roger Rabbit Commentary: Bush’s KGB at work. Where is Obama on this? And we’re supposed to trust NSA apparatchiks to do what’s right?

88. EvergreenRailfan spews:

Too bad the number of signatures was not enough to have denied it from getting on the ballot. Although R-74, was already law, but was suspended pending voter approval. Still, people had been warning for years this would happen.

89. EvergreenRailfan spews:

In Australia, interesting developments in how the marriage equality issue is influencing the election. The Liberals are against it, Labor is for it, but if they have the chance to reintroduce the legislation, it will again be a conscience vote. Without the Liberal/National coalition doing the same, it would fail. What is interesting, is Liberal leader Tony Abbott’s closest supporter, is a Lesbian, and supports marriage equality.
http://theconversation.com/day-eleven-brother-and-sister-play-careful-family-politics-on-gay-marriage-17111

Also, Labor’s leader in the Senate, is a Lesbian, but thinks a marriage equality referendum would be too divisive.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1799514/Wong-I-dont-support-a-same-sex-marriage-referendum

90. Roger Rabbit spews:

Second Amendment Report for Aug. 16, 2013

Denver police have shot down an “active shooter” who was meandering down a street shooting at people. At least one woman was killed. Police said they found a hand grenade and booby-trapped propane tanks.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/16/denver-shooter-south-irvi_n_3768907.html

Roger Rabbit Commentary: I don’t think this nut should have been allowed to have guns. Having easy access to guns didn’t make him “polite” as the NRA claimed it would.

91. Gman spews:

This from the Freedom Party. What a bunch of maniac hating hypocrites. They don’t value human life, Freedom, nor Patriotism.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/16/eric-alva-gay-veteran-booed_n_3769805.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Come on Bob, Puffy defend these fuckers.

92. Gman spews:

Does anyone know how much weight Chris Christie has lost. Now that it’s been a while since his weight loss surgery shouldn’t the guy be thin again. Why is he still a fat fuck?

93. Roger Rabbit spews:

Another Second Amendment Report for Aug. 16, 2013

A 22-year-old WWU student in Bellingham blew his brains out this afternoon while horsing around with a gun he didn’t know was loaded.

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2013/08/wwu-student-kills-himself-accidentally-playing-with-gun/?syndication=rss

Roger Rabbit Commentary: This is what happens when children play with guns. Children shouldn’t have guns. Nobody under 30 should have a gun, except in the military when needed for their duties.

94. Roger Rabbit spews:

@91 Any god worshipped by their ilk can’t be much of a god.