Open Thread

We’re still mostly talking about the school shooting from last Friday.

How do we find ourselves asking kindergarteners to be more courageous in the face of a gunman than politicians are in the face of the gun lobby?

Joe Posnanski’s piece was about the best at capturing the horrible mood.

That’s why, to me, the idea of having a conversation about gun control makes so much sense. Discussion can often lead to enlightenment.

– What do we do going forward?

Generic cartoon

And in case we’re talking about anything else:

– While the drones are certainly worst for the people they’re used on, the people who use them also face real problems.

The legislators who concocted this scheme need these bullies in order to make it work. Never forget that this is what the anti-choice movement gives us: Legislators who are counting on the lurking threat of harassment and even violence to make their legal schemes work.


  1. 2


    @1 Wow, that tweet was disrespectful and hateful, almost as disrespectful and hateful as all the liberals who said 9/11 was in inside job, and Bush was behind it.

    Don, my son, the reason I smashed your idiotic observation back down your throat was to teach you a lesson. One side doesn’t have a monopoly on hate speech. Now STFU. Consider this a teachable moment.

  2. 3


    So, the misogynist, racist Republican Party’s minority female SC governor has appointed a black man to the US Senate seat held by that former segregationist Strom Thurmond.

    I wonder if MSNBC will spin it that way?

  3. 4

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    Actually, Lidnsay Graaham holds Thurmond’s seat(he was first elected in 2002, after Thurmond did not run again. DeMint was elected in 2004, although he replaced another segregationinst that had first raised the Confederate Flag over the state house dome that led to decades of tension). Either way, anybody was better than those two. Especially since Strom Thurmond was a hypocrite his whole life. He had an affair with his housekeeper, and a mixed-race child, which the secret only came out after his death.

  4. 5

    rhp6033 spews:

    On the Sunday morning CBS talk show, the Republican talking heads were noticably absent. Which is rather remarkable, in that they have made sure they had someone available to fill those slots every Sunday morning for the past several years, at times out-numbering and drowing out the Democratic opposition. Instead, the guest was the Democratic governor of Connecticut.

    On the CBS Sunday Morning Show, they said that support for gun control had dropped from a high of some 60$ 20 years ago to about 23% today – a suprising number. But the images of first and second graders killed in Newbury might reverse that trend.

    This morning, Robert Murdoch came out with a statement that the U.S. as far too late in enacting laws against assault weapons. Which may signal a change in Fox News policy.

    It seems that the Republicans are in dissaray. In the meantime, Republicans seen to hope they can keep their heads low until the passage of time dims the outrage, and then conduct their usual ubstructionism to prevent any changes. In January the lifting of the assault weapons bill reverts back to the old law of the Clinton administration, unless the Republicans can somehow work a better deal with the Democratic Senate and the President – unlikely except in the context of other legislation thrown into the mix.

  5. 7


    @ 5

    Was the absence of GOP contributors to the CBS show because they declined to appear, because they weren’t invited, or is it just because the ones you wanted on the hot seat weren’t on the show?

    Don’t forget the GOP was in ‘disarray’ after the Giffords shooting, back when civility was the name of the game, before it became business as usual and politicians of the opposite party were ok to ‘target’ again.

    I’ll admit to spending some time this weekend wondering if some things should change. We’ll see what Feinstein comes up with. Unfortunately her efforts will be aided by Schumer, which means it will likely be fluff and bluster, and no rational substance.

  6. 8

    Michael spews:

    I’ve read numerous reports of members of the media sending out invitations to members of the GOP and the GOP (and Democratic gun rights supporters) not getting back to them.

  7. 9

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 7: As I said in # 5, the absence of Republicans on the show was striking, because they have always had leading Republicans available to address any issue.

    The Sunday “talking head” shows know this, because it’s any easy guest for them to book. I seriously doubt it was because they weren’t invited – the Sunday Morning talk-shows are always willing to show “both sides” to demostrate their independence, generate controversey, and raise raitings.

    Which leads me to conclude that for whatever reason, the Republicans decided to sit this out.

    And I’m also afraid that nothing will come of this. The gun lobby is probably quietly calling all it’s campaign receipients and reminding them of what “good friends” the NRA has been to them. Those within two years of an election might need a bit stronger arm-twisting, with vague threats of being primaried by gun enthusiasts. “Obama wants to take your guns” will be replaced by Obama and xxxxx want to take your guns”. But it will take a while before anyone dares mouth that opinion.

    Of course, this isn’t a partcularly good case for the types of gun control which will be discussed. I’ve heard conflicting reports of whether the assault-style rifle was left back in the car or the shooter used it to gain entry to te building. The building itself had a pretty good security system. Most of the shooting occured with pistols. The shooter killed his mother and taken the legally-purchased guns from him. So the usual targets of gun control (assault weapons bans, private-party purchaes) would not have have preveented this shooting.

  8. 10


    2. Troll spews:

    @1 Wow, that tweet was disrespectful and hateful, almost as disrespectful and hateful as all the liberals who said 9/11 was in inside job, and Bush was behind it.

    Don, my son, the reason I smashed your idiotic observation back down your throat was to teach you a lesson. One side doesn’t have a monopoly on hate speech. Now STFU. Consider this a teachable moment.

    12/17/2012 at 9:46 am

    From YOU???

    Are you fucking kidding???

  9. 11


    . Serial conservative spews:

    @ 5

    Was the absence of GOP contributors to the CBS show because they declined to appear, because they weren’t invited, or is it just because the ones you wanted on the hot seat weren’t on the show?

    Don’t forget the GOP was in ‘disarray’ after the Giffords shooting, back when civility was the name of the game, before it became business as usual and politicians of the opposite party were ok to ‘target’ again.

    I’ll admit to spending some time this weekend wondering if some things should change. We’ll see what Feinstein comes up with. Unfortunately her efforts will be aided by Schumer, which means it will likely be fluff and bluster, and no rational substance.

    12/17/2012 at 11:07 am

    The producer tweeted, and was widely copied on many websites that THIRTY-ONE pro gun United States Senators were invited on “Meet The Press” Sunday and they all declined.

    If this fuck ever learned how to read it would be a boon to us all.

  10. 13

    Gman spews:

    @7 hey serial – how’s all the Mitt Romney is going to win doing for you now. You expect anyone to think your crap is plausible?

  11. 14

    Jimmy 'if I understand you correctly' Miller spews:

    Troll and Cereal, if I understand you correctly, the real victims of this tragedy are the Republicans.

  12. 15

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    An Australian politician has had an interesting take on Rupert Murdoch’s gun control statements.

    Did I mention that Malcom Turnbull(politician in the above article), is a frontbencher(shadow cabinet) and former leader of the Australian equivalent of the Republican Party(Center-Right alignment)?

  13. 16

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    I am listening to the podcast of Meet the Press right now, and following up the interview with Mayor BLoomberg, David Gregory said they reached out to all 31 pro-gun rights senators in the next congress, and none agreed to come on yesterday.

  14. 18

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    Bill Bennett did the job for them on the panel, though. THe “If only the principal had been armed….” remark.

    Personally, there are some situations where arming people is not the best answer. At a prison, the tower guards may be armed, but those actually walking the yard or the cellblocks are probably not, because it introduces the risk of the prisoner getting the gun.

  15. 19

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 18: Since the shooter at Newtown had body armor, then the principle had better have very good aim to be able to make a head shot with a pistol in an adrennalen-fueled environment.

    So in addition to having principles being highly educated teachers, counselors, social workers, H.R. first-responders, bookkeepers-accountants, team builders (PTSA associations), fund-raisers, and politicians for their schools, we now ask them to be – trained SWAT team members, wearing body armor at all times?

  16. 20

    EvergreenRailfan spews:


    It seems that is the idea that some want. THen again, the right rarely thinks things through, and does not listen to what other say, unless the others agree with them. Schools are supposed to be a place of learning, and of refuge. Plus, this happened in a small community, the fire department was holding a fundraiser that night, selling Christmas Trees. THe reason for the fundraiser? It’s a volunteer fire department with a big need for resources, as they parallel an Interstate, and have responsibility for fire and ems on that stretch of highway.

    The teachers job is to teach, and the principal, as you arleady mentioned, has a lot of tasks to do already. The security is the responsibility of the police. Naturally, those resources are probably spent on the high schools.

    Even law enforcement can come up short in situations with a heavily armed suspect with body armor. Their was the infamous bank robbery and shootout, where the local police, armed with service pistols and shotguns came up short against a suspect with body armor and automatic weapons, and the cops, while awaiting the SWAT team showing up, had to go to a gun store and buy assault weapons. Was this Small Town America? No, it was the LAPD, and the infamous North Hollywood bank robbery and shootout. Now ost big city departments now issue “patrol rifles” in addition to the shotgun and pistol to the patrolmen. Then again, the cops are trained for this, and that is their job.

  17. 21

    rhp6033 spews:

    Aside from the shooting….

    An internal McDonald’s document lays out it’s plans to put pressure on its franchisees to stay open all day on Christmas.

    It also says that company owned stores would be open all day Christmas, but employees would be paid straight-time (no overtime or holiday pay). Managers are supposed to make sure that employee’s shifts are arranged so that working on Christmas doesn’t result in them working over 35 hours per week (which in some states would qualify them for benefits), or over 40 hours per week (which under federal law would qualify them for overtime pay).

    The memo indicated that being open on Thanksgiving had resulted in a substantial increase in profits for the month of November, and hoped that by staying open on Christmas Day that the same would be true for Christmas.

  18. 22

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    21)They should not be doing it company-wide. A few franchises maybe, and if that, it should be holiday pay. Then again, the only thing that some care about companies and Christmas, is if they say “Merry Christmas or not”.

    Around here, King County Metro puts out a bare-minimum Sunday schedule for Christmas, and I am surprised they get enough drivers willing to work on Christmas to maintain that schedule, but it is probably time and a half(assuming that is in the ATU 587 contract).

  19. 23

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    Sad News to report, breaking from the Washington Post, Senator Daniel Inouye (D-HI), Senior senator from Hawaii, and President Pro Tempore of the Senate, has passed away at the age of 88, due to respritory complications, after a lifetime of service. America has lost a veteran, and the State of Hawaii has lost one of it’s last Founding Fathers.

  20. 24

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    Senator Inouye’s lifetime of service to this great nation, and the State of Hawaii, began during WWII, when he “Went for Broke” with the 100th Infantry Battalion, 442nd Regimental Combat Team in Itay during WWII, where for gallantry in action, he was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross, but upon an Army review in the late 1990s, was upgraded to the Medal of Honor. He later served in the Territorial legislature, as Hawaii’s first US Congressmember, and then in 1962, elected to the US Senate.(Somebody else held the seat before him, by the way).
    (Not sure if, and when, the Honolulu Star-Advertiser will be putting that story behind the pay wall).

  21. 25

    Tea for everyone spews:

    Oh my, you mean there is a black Republican left? It must be a gene pool malfunction, or a shame to his race. How can we let a black man have choice.

    After seeing the latest nominee by a mile movie Lincoln, it made perfect sense which party was willing to take the correct position on equality, and it explains the still disgraceful attitude of the left towards an individual’s right to choice on political beliefs.

    The Rubber Stamp be damned

  22. 26

    greg spews:

    RIP to a true American legend.
    “Tonight, our country has lost a true American hero with the passing of Senator Daniel Inouye. The second-longest serving Senator in the history of the chamber, Danny represented the people of Hawaii in Congress from the moment they joined the Union. In Washington, he worked to strengthen our military, forge bipartisan consensus, and hold those of us in government accountable to the people we were elected to serve. But it was his incredible bravery during World War II – including one heroic effort that cost him his arm but earned him the Medal of Honor – that made Danny not just a colleague and a mentor, but someone revered by all of us lucky enough to know him. Our thoughts and prayers are with the Inouye family.”

    President Barack Obama

  23. 28

    herzog spews:

    Don, my son, the reason I smashed your idiotic observation back down your throat was to teach you a lesson. One side doesn’t have a monopoly on hate speech. Now STFU. Consider this a teachable moment.

    Whats the lesson, that attempting to flatter yourself only makes you look a bigger idiot than you already are?

  24. 29

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    My wingnut brother sent me another one of those rightwing e-mails that people with too much time on their hands never cease manufacturing. This one claims Medicare regulations require doctors and nurses to ask patients if they have guns in their homes. I looked it up on Snopes, and as usual, it’s bullshit. But I think there’s a larger issue here: What kind of insensitive bastards would circulate something like that at a time like this? Can’t they at least wait until the funerals are over?

  25. 30

    Ekim spews:

    21. rhp6033 spews:

    Aside from the shooting…
    An internal McDonald’s document lays out it’s plans to put pressure on its franchisees to stay open all day on Christmas.

    Nothing says Christmas like a McD burger and fries.

  26. 31

    rhp6033 spews:

    I first became acquainted with Sen. Daniel Inouye during his service on the joint committee on Watergate. All of the Senators and Congressmen on that committee conducted themselves with a dignity and desire for the bessts interests of the nation, and Inoue was no exception. It was through press coverage of the participants on the committee that I first learned about the 442nd Regimental Combat Team and it’s exploits, the “Most Decorated Unit in the U.S. Army”.

    By the way, in case anybody has wondered, the Japanese-Americans on Hawaii (first, second, and third generation) were never interned during WWII as were those on the U.S. west coast, despite their obvious access to vital U.S. facilities during the war. There were at least three reasons for this. The first was that the Japanese-
    Americans were a vital part to the economy to Hawaii, making up a significant part of the populations. Second, there wasn’t enough shipping space to send them back to the West Coast, shipping space was at a premium during that time. Third, and probably more importantly, Hawaii was considered it’s own military department, and governed by the U.S. general in charge of it, and he saw no need for such measures. In contrast, the general in charge of the U.S. West Coast was a racist who tried later tried to keep eskimos, black servicemen, and white women as far apart as possible from each other, feering “mongoloid breeding”.

    In the meantime Sen. Inouye was fighting and bleeding in Italy for America.

  27. 32

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @2 The only thing you’ve taught anyone today is that you’re an even bigger ass than we thought you were.

  28. 34

    greg spews:

    From Hawaii’s Governor Neil Abercrombie:
    HONOLULU –Governor Neil Abercrombie today shared the following remarks upon learning of the passing of Senator Daniel K. Inouye:
    “The Senator gave everything. He knew the true meaning of ‘Go for Broke.’He left us with a legacy of honor and service to the people of Hawaii, to the people of this nation, without parallel.
    “The Senator recently made clear to me his love and affection for us all. He said: ‘I represented the people of Hawaii and this nation honestly and to the best of my ability. I think I did okay.’I’m sure we all believe he did okay.
    “Our responsibility is to not just carry on but carry through on his total devotion and commitment to Hawaii and its values. Our thoughts, hearts and deepest aloha go out to his wife, Irene; son, Ken; and the entire Inouye family.”

  29. 35

    rhp6033 spews:

    There are always people who have to work at Christmas. Hospitals have to stay open, staffed by doctors and nurses. Some pharacies must remain open as well, as well. Police and fire departments have to work on at least a limited staff. The airports have to continue operation. And ground transportation (METRO, etc.) has to operate on a limited basis so people can get to their destinations and return.

    But there is absolutely no reason why retail stores and fast-food restaurants need to open on Christmas. It’s just an attempt by the corporate owners to get a leg up on their competition, and make some more profits, by making their employees pay the price in another lost holiday.

  30. 36

    greg spews:

    Statement by Vice President Biden on the Passing of Senator Daniel Inouye

    As my mother would say, the greatest virtue of all is courage, and Danny was courage personified. From the battlefields of World War II where he received the Medal of Honor, to the floor of the United States Senate where he displayed incredible moral bravery, he was always the same – courageous and resolute. He was one of the most honorable men I ever met in my life, and one of the best friends you could hope for. He was honest, and fiercely loyal, and I trusted him absolutely.

    Everyone in the Senate not only admired Danny Inouye, but they trusted him. We all knew he would do the moral thing regardless of the consequences – whether it was passing judgment on a President during Watergate or on another President in the Iran Contra hearings. And Danny always remembered where he came from – and how hard his family had to struggle. From having to fight for the right to fight for his country in the all Japanese-American 442nd, to his keynote speech at the Democratic National Convention in 1968, he always spoke of the country’s struggles with racism and bias, and his call for a “new era of politics.” And to his dying day, he fought for a new era of politics where all men and women are treated with equality.

    Above all, Danny was my friend, and Jill and I are praying for his entire family today

  31. 39

    Michael spews:

    I worked holidays for a looong time. For most of it I got paid double time and since I saw my family all the time anyway, everyone was pretty much “you’re working Christmas RIGHT?” I mean, doing half your normal work load while getting paid double-time for a 12 hour shift is some serious shit. Then they cut the double time to time-and-a-half and it was still worth it, since I still saw family all the time, I still got that 12 hour shift, and it helped my co-workers out. I’m not working in that job/field any more and from what I’ve heard the time-and-half is still there, but they’ve cut staffing so the cake workload is gone and so are the 12 hour shifts. If I was still doing that work I’d be trying to take the holidays off like everyone else. It just wouldn’t be worth it anymore.

    But, the thing is, that wealth didn’t just vanish into thin air. It vanished into the pockets of upper management and into their friends pockets that they hired on as (useless) consultants.

    Sorry, you’re gonna have to pay me if you want me to work.

  32. 40

    don spews:


    I ain’t your fucking son!

    The point of my post was the right wing’s insistence that racism didn’t exist anymore since a black president had been elected. Tweets such as I pointed out show that even when the president is calling for the nation to come together, people resort to calling the president ugly racist names that should have been buried a hundred years. Whether a few crazies thought that 9/11 was some government conspiracy is immaterial. Most Americans, including many on the left, were willing to come together as a nation and put differences aside during a time of national grief. Bush’s approval in Oct 2001 was over 90%.

  33. 41

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    Meanwhile, the coup in the State Senate is getting interesting. Senator Ed Murray(D-Seattle) is not going down without a fight. I wonder, is the budget the real reason the 2 Democrats jumped to the GOP? Murray represents a heavily urban district(although retiring Lisa Brown represented Central Spokane), or another reason besides the two previously mentioned?

  34. 42

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @39 You’re wasting your time trying to explain anything to these asswipes; and besides, we don’t cater to them. If they want something, they have to come to us, and they’ll get it on our terms (if at all).

  35. 43

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @38 Thanks for reminding me that WORK is the WORST way to make money.

    Working is the least efficient way of making money. (See, e.g., work clothing, commuting costs, the uncompensated years spent acquiring required education/training, countless hours expended job-hunting, etc.) Wages are taxed more than any other income, working has the worst impacts on health and quality of life, and workers are the most disrespected and abused people of our society.

    The American Work Ethic (TM) is a myth ginned up by cheap labor conservatives who want to profit from other people’s blood, sweat, and tears. So why the fuck does anyone work? I sure don’t. I spend my time flipping stocks, an utterly useless activity that produces absolutely nothing, but pays a hell of a lot better than any job. (I’m having a bad day if I make only $50 an hour.)

    As we approach the holidays, I will once again renew my New Year’s Resolution to never work another fucking day in my life.

  36. 45

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    Roger Rabbit@43,

    I think he would side with the GOP though. I have always thought that they should add a 50th Legislative District, bringing the number in the house to 100, and the Senate 50, so he might be breaking more tied votes, since the independent redistricting we use seems to produce a state senate with a one seat majority for either party a lot, at least for 10 years.

  37. 48

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Illinois police have arrested 22 frat boys for the hazing death of a pledge.

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: I don’t like college fraternities, never did, because they’re all supercilious assholes. I knew a girl in college whose younger brother was later killed in a hazing incident — I read about it in the papers.

  38. 49

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    That hazing death occurred at WSU in 1975. There have been dozens of other fraternity hazing deaths in the U.S. over the years. What a useless waste of promising young lives. Fraternities should be abolished if they can’t do any better than that. Or sued into bankruptcy by tort lawyers.

  39. 50

    Expat(!)Chad spews:

    When I was at Whitman (Walla Walla) in the early 60s we had an alcohol overdose death in one of the fraternities. Certainly nothing new.

  40. 51

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 39: My office always had a rotating schedule for weekend and holiday work. We negotiated among ourselves, and I aways volunteered to take the New Year’s weekend so the Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans on the staff could take that time off. In return, I got Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays & weekends off. We were “on call”, and received a minimum of four hours a day at time-and-a-half, regardless of whether we were called. But we always had to be available early in the morning for shipments to Asia.

    Now I’m salaried management, and the higher powers-that-be eliminated half our staff. The conclusion is that I’m part of a team consisting of myself, my direct boss, and five people from Los Angelese sharing the duty. Since I’m salaried, I don’t get paid extra. And I have to be available every weekend and holiday the Los Angelese people are working because they are new to this and they still have lots of questions. Although I am management salaried, my salary is less than I received when I was hourly. Yesterday I put in 14 hours (plus one hour commute each way), today I arrived at 6:30 a.m. and I expect to get home about midnight.

    Roger Rabbit is right – the rules are rigged in favor of the guys that own the stock. Working for a living just doesn’t pay – even if you are “management”.

  41. 53

    rhp6033 spews:

    By the way, it’s official.

    Several sources at Fox News have confirmed that over last weekend, they received explicit instructions not to mention gun rights in their news or commentary. So the “sounds of silence” from Fox News weren’t merely individual decisions by producers, anchors, and commentators, it was a corporate decision.

    There may be a a struggle going on right now. Murdoch, the owner of Fox News, has come out in favor of reasonable gun regulation. But Roger Ailes, the founder and CEO, has his own concealed carry permit and has some strong pro-gun views.

  42. 54

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    Discovery Channel has pulled American Guns, and it looks like, although they did not say anything about Sons of Guns, they did not have any new episodes in the pipeline. In a perfect world, they should pull all their shows on guns, but I did like Sons of Guns, the other show, they just seemed to be doing a lot of their shooting scenes, for maximum dramatic effect, and unlike Sons of Guns, the owner of the shop on American Guns was driving around in his pickup with NRA Propaganda all over it.

  43. 56

    MikeBoyScout spews:

    How stoopid are Republicans?

    Three Arizona Republicans go ‘birther’

    Several Arizona Republicans, including the GOP state chair, on Monday cast fresh doubts on President Barack Obama’s citizenship, according to a report.

    Tom Morrissey, the state chair of the Arizona Republican Party, along with two other members of the Electoral College, raised questions about Obama’s U.S. citizenship at an event to note Arizona’s Electoral College votes, which all went to GOP nominee Mitt Romney, the Associated Press reported.

    Hey Republicans, are you sure he’s even human?

  44. 57

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    Michigan Governor Snyder has vetoed the bill that passed on Thursday allowing guns in schools and other gun free zones. Yes, that Governor Snyder that managed to get the legislature to pass a bill undoing 70+ years of Labor History in Michigan in only a matter of hours.

  45. 58

    MikeBoyScout spews:

    More news for FREEDOM!
    Four shot dead in Colorado murder-suicide, police say

    DENVER (Reuters) – A man shot and killed three people in a home in Colorado on Tuesday before turning the handgun on himself and committing suicide, authorities said.
    Officers found the bodies of two females and two males, and recovered a handgun at the scene, Schwartz said. Three of the dead were adults, he said, adding that one of the females may have been a teenager.

    On average there will be 29 more murders in the US with guns today. 7 more will be children killed with guns. Stay safe.

  46. 59

    EvergreenRailfan spews:


    If they keep this up, very. Then again, they are already working on making it so they win by losing the next time around, rigging the Electoral College.

    And yesterday was the day when the Electors cast their votes. I wonder, if they will try to challenge them in Congress next, like what happened in 2000 and 2004 over the FLorida and Ohio debacles, but nobody joined from the Senate to answer the challenge of a couple Democrats in the House.

  47. 60

    rhp6033 spews:

    From the Cops-and-Prosecutors-protecting-their-own department:

    Last August an off-duty DEA agent was found intoxicated in his parked truck, with the engine running. He claims he went to his truck to sleep, and turned on the engine to run the air conditioning.

    Somehow it took until now for the Kitsap county prosecutors to decide the case was “too close to call” and decide not to file charges.

    I call Bullshit.

    Under Washington state law, anyone in operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated is subject to the DUI laws. The definition of “in operation of a motor vehicle” has routinely been applied by the courts and the prosecutors to iclude anyone who even puts their keys in the ignition, even if they don’t turn the vehicle on.

  48. 61

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    This might not help the coal export terminal in their process, and now I see why BNSF has the 48-hour passenger train embargo after a mudslide. Another slide north of Seattle, only this one took out a freight train, but this was just a stack train(intermodal containers), but a couple of the containers split open.

  49. 62

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 61: Considering all the mudslides, especially between Seattle and Everett, you would think that they would have a program in the works to provide retaining walls or something similar to prevent such service interruptions.

  50. 63

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 59: I think the next big push will be for the Republicans to try to change the Electoral College in specific states (ones which are reliably democratic, on a state level) to be apportioned per county or congressional district level (whichever helps them most).

    Of course, this doen’t apply to Red States like Georgia, where Atlanta could provide a very blue impact on the overall electoral college. What they hope to do is keep the Red States electoral colleges as a winner-take-all, and Blue States apportioned, thereby dividing their votes. For states such as California, Oregon, and Washington, this could siphon enough votes to make it a close race.

    Of course, it’s just another example of how Republicans play the game: one set of rules for us, another set for everyone else.

  51. 64

    EvergreenRailfan spews:


    4 years ago, I think there was an initiative in California that was at least proposed to apportion by Congressional District, the idea to pick of California’s 55, or at least 20 of them. I was thinking at the time, they want California to do that, then Texas, Florida, and I’ll add now, Georgia, would have to do the same, or not at all. Under that GOP idea, they would have got only 4 of our 12, and 1 of Oregon’s, but in 2008, Obama might have got one of Idaho’s.(The Democratic Congressional Candidate took 1 district there, briefly).