In case you missed this one, the 84-year-old mayor and city commissioners of Oak Hill, Florida fired their entire police department after police found some pot plants growing in the mayor’s yard. The mayor says they were secretly planted there by the cops, the cops sound like a real life version of Reno 911, and even if I didn’t mention it, you probably could’ve guessed that this all took place in Florida. Just watch the local news report at the bottom of the article. God help us all.
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ASIAN MARKETS PLUNGE; GOLD SOARS ABOVE $1,700
World financial markets are reacting badly to the U.S. credit downgrade, with Hong Kong and South Korean stock exchanges down 3.5%, Japan’s down 2.2%, Australia’s off 2.9%, Singapore’s down 4.7%, Taiwan’s down 3.8%, and China’s Shanghai Index off 3.6%. In Japan, Hitachi stock dropped 4%, Sony 3.8%, and Mazda 3.1%. A Hong Kong trader said, “It feels like Armageddon.”
Crude prices plunged to $84 and gold soared to $1,714 in early Monday trading. The euro and yen both rose against the dollar.
MSNBC said Dow futures were off 2.3%, and S&P 500 futures off 2.6%, equivalent to a decline of 260 Dow points and 31.30 S&P points.
MSNBC also reported, “Seeking to avert panic spreading across financial markets, finance officials from the Group of Seven industrial countries issued a joint statement late Sunday saying they were committed to taking all necessary measures to support financial stability and growth. The G-7 statement came after the group held an emergency conference call to discuss the debt crisis in Europe and market prospects following the announcement of the first-ever downgrade of the U.S. credit rating.”
The European Central Bank (ECB) announced a bond purchase to “boost Spanish and Italian bonds and drive down interest yields that threaten those countries with financial disaster.” July inflation figures for China, to be announced later this week, also are fraying investors’ nerves.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44....._business/
Roger Rabbit Commentary: History has repeatedly demonstrated that the news media are eerily accurate in calling market bottoms. Invariably, when headlines scream that Armageddon is at hand, things start getting better.
Too many of my friends, who I call brothers, died in Vietnam, and too many of their sons and daughters died in the Middle East. How much longer will this savagery continue?
CNN reports that Europe’s “big three” stock exchanges, defying the Asian trend, and narrowly higher. In the first 30 minutes of trading Paris was up 1.6%, London 0.8%, and Frankfurt 0.2%.
CNN also reports that in early electronic trading, U.S. stocks are down about 1.25% to 1.4%, and U.S. stocks “are poised to open about 140 [Dow] points lower.”
CNN described the ECB’s bond purchase move as “an escalation in the official response to Europe’s debt crisis.”
http://www.cnn.com/2011/BUSINE.....?hpt=hp_t1
Roger Rabbit Commentary: The Economist, a conservative business-oriented U.K.-based news/opinion magazine, has been arguing for months that European governments and banking officials have merely papered over that region’s sovereign debt problems, and that sovereign defaults by the European Union’s financially weak countries are inevitable. So far, events have proved them right.
The Economist also has predicted the euro won’t survive the current debt debacle. The reason it won’t is because the public in stronger economies like Germany won’t be willing to bail out spendthrift neighbors like Greece and Italy in order to preserve the union. At this point, events are moving in that direction, with great speed.
The Economist also has said a chain reaction of European sovereign defaults would slam U.S. banks, because they are holding some of that debt.
Although I’m a liberal, I read The Economist regularly and diligently. (So do Warren Buffet and Bill Gates Jr.) They may be conservative and biased toward business, but they’re remarkably objective for an outfit that admits it combines journalism with opinion in its reporting, and for as long as I’ve been following their reporting and their take on world events, they’ve been pretty damned accurate to the point of being prescient.
It is primarily because of The Economist’s views of the European debt crisis — this drama is only starting, folks — that I’ve held back my tens of thousands of dollars in cash and haven’t jumped back into the stock market. According to them, the shit is only beginning to hit the fan. They’ve been right so far, and I think they’re right about this, too.
So, how deep will this “correction” go? Some financial pundits have guessed as much as 25%. We’re down 9% from this spring’s market peak so far, so if that’s right, we’re a little over one-third of the way there and by today’s (Monday’s) market close we may be halfway there — we’ll see.
Although I always play things by ear (and gut), I probably won’t buy stocks today. I’m looking for a 200 – 250 (Dow) point selloff, although I feel it’s possible we may see a repeat of Thursday’s 500-point drop. I give 20% odds on that, and I think there’s a 10% chance we could see a repeat of Friday’s 60-point gain.
Then, on Tuesday, I believe the Federal Reserve will stand pat and U.S. markets will react negatively on Wednesday, taking the Dow down another low-3-digit amount. After that, I think the market drifts lower for a while as investors catch their breath, do damage assessment, and count their cash reserves. At some point, stocks will get so cheap relative to anticipated 2012 corporate earnings that bottom-feeders like me will start buying, pushing the market indexes up a little.
This week’s new issue of Barron’s magazine contains an interview with an eminent “value” investor (if you don’t know what that is, a “value” investor is someone who evaluates stocks based on company fundamentals such as earnings, earnings growth rates, and so on) who says the stock market will be “disappointing” for years to come.
It’s my belief, though, that you can eke out at least modest returns from the market most of the time, although I’ll readily concede there are times when you can’t make a buck to save your fucking life.
The stock market plunge of 2009 that scared the hell out of everyone else was NOT one of those times. I made a 90% return that year — i.e., I nearly doubled the value of my portfolio … albeit coming out of a cellar. Nevertheless, by last fall my portfolio had reached new highs; and today, even after last week’s decline, my portfolio is worth more than it was before all this shit started in 2007.
@2 My thought on this question is that artists, writers, war correspondents, and war photographers have greater ability than anyone else to help us create a world in which war, genocide, and savagery will become obsolete.
I honestly think it’s possible, but to think this way, you have to take a very long view of history. Progress is possible: De jure slavery has been abolished nearly everywhere, and nobody burns people at the stake for religious heresy or witchcraft anymore. Human nature never changes, but human culture can be changed, and I’m convinced that the hideous things you stupid humans do to each other are a product of human culture, not human nature, which means you have the ability to eliminate these forms of behavior and don’t have to try to change human nature to accomplish this.
Now back to artists and writers. Statesmen and politicians clearly have failed to make the world any better; under their management, savagery and killing has continued apace.
No one thinks about Napoleon anymore, or remembers the statesmen and politicians of his time, but Goya’s drawings of the horrors of the Peninsular Campaign are still with us. You can see them in library books. Goya was the world’s first combat photojournalist. His art depicted Spaniards hanging from trees and the dismembered bodies of the French army’s victims. Goya’s “The Third of May 1808,” depicting French troops executing Spanish civilians, is one of the world’s most instantly recognisable paintings. In written literature, such works as Erich Remarque’s “All Quiet on the Western Front” and Wilfred Owen’s poems have endured and seem likely to remain a part of world literature for as long as people still read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_of_May_1808
You have to reach the young. Einstein once said, “The way you get a new scientific theory accepted is to wait for the proponents of the old one to die off.” It is the same with cultural change. People are open to new ideas during their intellectually formative years — the teens and twenties, the high school and college years. After that, their minds close, and become increasingly closed; by the thirties, attitudes and ideologies are firmly cemented in place. It is always the young who change the world (see, e.g., the “Arab Spring”). So, you have to reach the young with your artistic and literary expressions of the idea that a peaceful world is possible, all they have to do is create it. It can be done in a single generation.
And, also, let’s not overlook the most widely disseminated form of contemporary artistic expression — music. Young people listen to musicians, and pop/rock music often contains messages that move young people (see, e.g., the Beatles’ “Nowhere Man”).
Yes, I believe it can be done; and moreover, I believe it is artists, writers, and musicians who will bring it about — not politicians, statesmen, or political bloggers.
Sorry, Goldy, but that’s the way it is.
I recently read somewhere that there are about 200 to 300 people in the world who make their living by reporting wars. This is dangerous work; they sometimes get killed. But they are indispensable.
If you like to read fiction (at least occasionally), I recommend “The Painter of Battles” by Arturo Pérez-Reverte Gutiérrez, a retired Spanish war correspondent.
Getting back to stocks, in case you’re wondering what my investing strategy is, the answer is I have no single strategy. At any given time, I’m using two or three strategies. I consider myself basically a “value-oriented contrarian” but I also do a little bit of “momentum” investing, and buy-and-hold and growth-stock speculation also are tools I use. I’ve never bought stocks on margin, shorted stocks, or used puts and calls, and I definitely don’t do day trading or speculate in penny stocks. For the last couple of years, I’ve maintained a major position in blue chip stocks that pay dividends and regularly raise their dividends, with a minor position in energy (lately, the integrated oil companies), and this has probably been the best market ploy over that time — the financial pundits back me up on that. I think that’s still the best approach going forward in this weak economy. I currently own Boeing, IBM, General Electric, AT&T, Verizon, Starbucks, and Chevron, among others. If the market keeps going down for a while, I think you’ll be able to buy Walgreen’s, Disney, Coca-Cola or Pepsi, several of the food processors (Heinz, Campbell Soups, General Mills, Kellog’s), and household staples (Procter & Gamble, Unilever, Colgate-Palmolive, Kimberly-Clark) with a clear conscience. I would wait a bit, though, to see how bad this shit is gonna get. Right now, cash is king, and you’re a lucky bastard if you’re sitting on tens of thousands of dollars of cash (as I am) — provided you spend it on the right stocks at the right time. I’ll let you know when that is, so keep reading HA.
Major European stock markets have now erased their small earlier gains and fallen into mildly negative territory.
Meanwhile, here at home, although we rabbits are nocturnal creatures who feed and fuck at night, I’m gonna sign off HA now and take a nap because U.S. financial markets open in less than 5 hours and I wanna keep my eyes open to watch the mayhem in the morning. As a prospective buyer rather than a seller, for me, this is gonna be fun fun fun!!!
The market is going down because our debt is unsustainable and we didn’t do anything substantive when the debt ceiling was just raised, or the Budget deal done several months ago.
All the leaders of both parties need to go. They have lead us to the brink of disaster. Then they try to convince us that cutting the rate of growth is a cut?? Come on. Are we that stupid? We need to clean house in DC and get rid of everyone who voted for the recent Debt Ceiling increase without major immediate cuts.
@9
And that’s why the tea party is dangerous. Tell me, if spending were slashed dramatically, what would be the result on unemployment? What would be the increased Federal outlay for unemployment claims? What would be the effect on consumer confidence based on soaring unemployment? What would be the effect of a huge portion of America delaying spending on consumer goods as a result of economic fears? What would be the result to business if Americans stopped spending? What would the effect of declining American business sales on unemployment?
Congratulations. You have failed to consider the perpetual negative downturn in the economy that would come from “major immediate cuts.”
What do you expect when republicans spend all their time on the culture wars and cutting spending on the middle class and no time on Living Wage Jobs for Americans.
If Americans have no extra income to buy things, of course the economy is going to tank.
The top 2% who are doing well, cannot spend enough to make up for the 98% that are not.
“without major immediate cuts.” So of the programs you benefit from, what are you willing to cut? What are you willing do without?
And why are revenue increases from the people most able to pay, never an option?
Judge for yourself, but it sure looks to me like teabaggers are absolutely fucking thrilled with the downgrade.
http://motherjones.com/mojo/20.....dit-rating
Yeah, way to go, asswipes.
This is more like it.
http://theimmoralminority.blog.....ut-at.html
Give the sorry fucker some hell.
Before we raise taxes on the well to do let’s cut what they now get. Here’s just one example.
Last week the Times ran an article on gangs and crime in Grant County.Grant Co. get a lot of farm subsidy money. According to the Environmental Working Group’s website http://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=53025 from 1995-2010 Grant Co. received “$359 million in subsidies”.
Take a look at who is getting what. This money is not filtering down to the little guys. Big money is going to big farms.
It’s going to be very difficult for President Obama to convince voters this debacle is somehow the Tea Party’s fault. Same with the unemployment. There are brain-dead folks out there I guess, but not enough. Senator Kerry is a pompous bastard having voted for big deficits year after year and somehow trying to shirk any responsibility. Same with unemployment. Folks are sick to death of the R’s and D’s blaming each other when both are filthy. You don’t get votes by balancing the Budget. People want handouts.
I would cut nearly everything…starting with a 10% across the Board cut effective immediately. Then eliminating bloated bureaucratic agencies immediately. All foreign aid–gone. This “over 10 year” cut stuff is ridiculous. We should have done this years ago. We have been lead down the road to a 2nd class country and it’s going to get much worse. How are you prepared?
And I would redo the Tax Code to a flat tax…immediately. There are plenty of models out there like Steve Forbes. I wish Forbes would run and focus on this piece. I agree many of the corporate tax breaks are ridiculous. So is the fact that 47% of Americans are paying Zero Income Tax.
A flat tax would increase revenue drastically is set at say a 10% level. Rich folks would report income like crazy for fear that it would go away. Would really help in the short-tun and likely the long-run.
SS has so many folks receiving that paid in little. It’s a classic Ponzi scheme no matter how you shape it. Well-intentioned until the politicians started screwing with it. Folks getting SS that have kids…there kids get 1/2 the amount of SS the parent is getting. Does that make sense? All these programs have gotten so big and cumbersome leading to this spiraling out of control.
I think all of us want a good life and good things for America. For some reason, the exact opposite is happening because of strong ideologies driving each party. That is why, at this point, only a 3rd Party will save us.
@9 We should have done something substantive when Bush and his GOP congress were spending money like drunken sailors and borrowing a trillion dollars from China to give tax breaks to billionaires, such as impeaching the lot of them.
@11 Exactly! This is what I’ve been saying all along: If Republicans keep shipping American jobs overseas and slashing wages for those we still have, where will they get customers from?
@17 – 19: Is it possible for anyone to be more idiotic than you?
The stock market is beginning to look like a candy store (yummy!) but it’s not time to buy yet. Let’s wait for Europe to collapse and see what that does to U.S. stocks. THANK YOU REPUBLICANS!!! Who’s gonna be your next hostage? The nation’s food supply chain?
The Dow is down over 400 now — and dropping.
re 23: It is possible. But I’m not going to make a comment at this juncture.
@26 Romney’s taking a run at it.
“Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney on Monday compared the federal government under President Obama to the British government under King George III at the time of the American Revolution …”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....21049.html
Roger Rabbit Commentary: This certainly sets the bar higher for Michelle Bachmann and Rick Perry, who’ll now be forced to compare Obama to Genghis Khan and Attila the Hun.
Of course, Italy — one of Europe’s deadbeat nations — is perpetually idiotic (just ask Amanda Knox):
“Italian prosecutors have seized documents at the offices of rating agencies Moody’s and Standard & Poor’s in a probe over suspected ‘anomalous’ fluctuations in Italian share prices, a prosecutor said on Thursday.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....18253.html
Roger Rabbit Commentary: I assume the Italian carabineiri saw a crime here because their stocks are going down, not up, which in the eyes of Italian authorities is a libel against their country.
How To Run A Country Into The Ground
Just put a rich businessman in charge of it. The righties who applauded when a very conservative rich guy took over Italy’s government in 1994 now have this to cheer:
1. Serial sex scandals
2. Business and financial fraud
3. An economy in shambles
Yep, that’s the legacy of Silvio Berlusconi, who isn’t in jail because, as Italy’s prime minister, he’s been able to tinker with the laws that would have landed him in jail. Here’s what has happened to the country run by the richest guy in the country:
“Silvio Berlusconi … has been a disaster as a national leader — in three ways. … The first is the lurid saga of his … sex parties, one of which has led to the unedifying spectacle of a prime minister being put on trial … on charges of paying for sex with a minor. … Over the years, he has been tried more than a dozen times for fraud, false accounting or bribery. … But it is now clear that neither the dodgy sex nor the dubious business history should be the main reason for Italians looking back on Mr Berlusconi as a disastrous, even malign, failure. Worst by far has been a third defect: his total disregard for the economic condition of his country … he has failed in almost nine years as prime minister to remedy or even really to acknowledge Italy’s grave economic weaknesses. As a result, he will leave behind him a country in dire straits.”
(Quoted from The Economist)
@27
Wow, he’s jumped the shark and the race hasn’t even started yet.
If you want to fix America, let conservative rich guys run it! After all, if you can run a business, surely you can run our government, too? See, e.g., Italy.
The Dow is now down 501.94 points.
Now it’s down 545 points.
Hilarious Wall Street pic from the Angry Black Lady,
http://www.angryblacklady.com/.....uckers.jpg
Yeah, jump, you fucks.
They’re heading for the exits big time..
Thanks idiot right wingers – you couldn’t let rich people pay the same rates they were under Bill Clinton when we balanced the budget.
You couldn’t even close ONE corporate tax loophole so they’d pay something more than the pathetic 8 percent of federal taxes they do now..
Your heads are truly lost where the sun doesn’t shine.
At least gas is going to get cheaper for a while.
It’d be great to see thousands of people on Wall Street holding up signs reading, “Jump! You fuckers!”
@34 A few more days like this and the stock market will be a candy store.
@10,
“Tell me, if spending were slashed dramatically, what would be the result on unemployment?”
That’s something I’ve been pondering myself. If we end our foreign adventures in Afghanistan, Iraq, and the rest of the world, there will be a lot of young people whose jobs will be gone. I’m not sure how the economy can suddenly come up with, say, 500,000 more jobs in the blink of an eye.
But it must be done: we simply can’t afford this empire any longer.
They’re making out like bandits..
The bond market is where the action is. The stock market is a pimple compared to the size of the bond market..
The last collapse didn’t affect the big players all that much.
If idiots like Erik Cantor can bet on the collapse of government bonds then so can they.
I got more popcorn…y’all want some? Butter? Yes/No? Shit, I’ll make both!
Lots of 401Ks taking a beating and the banks are moving into Treasury notes.
Steve @ 36…
Oh I would looove to do that!
THAT’S why privatizing Soc Sec is a GREAT idea. Yayyyyyy….let’s do it NOW!!!!
Well we see the outcome of Obummer’s profligate spending. Obummer doesn’t care about this economy or the little people. Yet you all suck up to the Dummocrapts and we see what that did to us last weekend. The 2 Trillion mistake per the Treasury for future spending could not be sustained bisuse the future congresses are not held to past congresses’ agreements. Until spending, all spending is reduced nothing changes. So blame it on the tea party. Moron leftists.
Ask Immelt why is GE shipping more jobs overseas
On war? Oh wait! Obama was just finishing the job the last idiot started..
I thought right wingers supported that.
Oh no of course not! The color of the skin is not right, the name ends in a vowel and there’s a D next to his name.
@45 Because Republicans gave his company tax breaks to do it.
(Full Disclosure: Roger Rabbit owns hundreds of shares of GE stock and plans to buy even more of it.)
@46 You’re wasting your time arguing with that eggplant.
48 eggplant.. that’s pretty good.
re 27: … or be forced to Google King George III.
Here are the closing market averages:
DJIA: 10809.85, -634.76, -5.55%
S&P 500: 1119.46, -79.92, -6.66%
Nasdaq: 2357.69, -174.72, -6.9%
Oil: 80.72, -6.16, -7.09%
Gold: 1718.40, +66.60, +4.03%
Typical leftist pinheads. Ignore the truth as always. It is standard operating procedure for HA morons. You can call me ask the names you want but it doesn’t change the truth of profligate spending. Yes, his porkulus bill, other spending, and general becile thinking has gotten us in this pickle. S and P nails you libtardos big time.
Today’s decline of nearly 635 Dow points is the 6th largest Dow point decline in history, but percentage-wise doesn’t make the top 20.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....al_Average
@52 What was the GOP’s role in this? Are they innocent? Is this all the Democrats’ fault?
Yes, puddy simpleton, blame Obama — that’s the answer to every question, isn’t it? You’re a broken record.
“Blame Obama (tic) … blame Obama (tic) … blame Obama (tic) … blame Obama (tic) … blame Obama (tic) … blame Obama (tic) … blame Obama (tic) …
Well, I have work to do, so you can jerk off by yourself for a while, putz. I have to get ready for tomorrow’s stock market selloff.
Now we see the outcome of right wing blood-Red State politics:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/.....index.html
re 52: “…general becile thinking has gotten us in this pickle.”
That becile thinking will cost you every time.
re 52: Were you trying to say that Obama thinks like Ted Bessell?
arschloch,
Gold
Gold
Gold
Roger Rabbit Commentary: History has repeatedly demonstrated that the news media are eerily accurate in calling market bottoms. Invariably, when headlines scream that Armageddon is at hand, things start getting better.
not this time rog, its the end game. all started by barney frank forcing banks to make loans to minorities with neither of the two criteria, ability or intention, of paying it back. why do you think banks didnt lend in urban areas in the first place, because they didnt like the color of their money? ask barney why he did it. to turn us into brazxil maybe, so the super rish like bloomberg will own the police and justice system? too bad you guys were sucked in.
Hey Roger Dumb Rabbit,
Who is the leader of the free world? Obummer is, therefore Obummer gets the major blame ya idiotic moron. He exhibited no leadership. He called it a major crisis. The DNCC called this Obummers economy. Notice Obummer’s speech today. It’s more of the same call for more spending.
The Entitlements are not discussed by this preznit. How much is that Roger Dumb Rabbit?
We promise big congressional debt deals which don’t stop any future spending. Dummocrapts realize if there is no pork for their peeps reelection is difficult for their chances. Obummer dodnt inspire anyone today.
Looks like the latest talking point is a Tea Party downgrade. Yet aftet Obummer’s speech the market tanked. Also, why was Obummer quiet this past weekend? They had to get their talking points together vs. addressing this issue.
Remember, the downgrade occurred during Obummer’s watch!
1. Bush and Republican policies (tax cuts for the rich, “hands off” regulatory theory, creating bubble economics using borrowed money) were proven a failure in 2008.
2. A Democrat takes the White House.
3. Republicans know that if the economy turns around, their economic theories will be demonstrated to be invalid even to the most obtuse voter, and they will be out of power for the next thirty years.
4. Republican strategy: Do everything possible to keep economy in the toilet through the next election cycle. Filibuster every stimulus bill, shoot down tax-collecting agencies (FAA), and insist on domestic spending cuts in a rescessionary economy.
5. When the economic recovery hits a plateu, blame it on the Democrats and campaign on the issue of jobs and spending cuts (two mutually exclusive goals).
So far, they’ve succeded. The economy is heading back into the toilet. If they continue with these efforts, they may succeed in reversing the economic recovery back to the basement it was when President Obama first took office.
More Cass Sinstein’s talking points above at #64.
Somehow I remember Pelosi talking down the economy in 2006.
Did some moronic right wing eggplant just off-gas in this thread?
MOT @ # 60 babbled as follows:
This was repeatedly proven to be wrong. You just keep repeating it because you are a bigoted racist.
Actually, yes. In the 1960’s and 1970’s white bankers, especially in the South, didn’t want to lend to blacks no matter how credit-worthy they were. They didn’t care that they were losing money by those practices, they wanted to keep their lobby free of those uppity black folks so their biggoted white customers would feel better. I should know, I grew up in the South in that era.
Give it up. Only the Republicans are actively trying to sabotage the American economy.
too bad you guys were sucked in.
Thanks for your support arschloch. I know it’s heartfelt.
Moron
@67
rhp…i must have hit a nerve, why else debate a racist, rightwing, moron.
@64
Gee Puddy? What happened to the market in the 5 days after Boehner and the tea party were very happy to get “98%” of what they wanted and BEFORE S&P arrived on the scene? (I’ll help you out, almost 1000 point drop. Was that the market reacting to Obama or the Tea Party brokered deal? Actually, don’t answer that. We know you ignore actual data.
So how ’bout explaining away all the quotes from the S&P press release about how tax increases being off the table, Republicans being willing to threaten default, the inflexibility of Republicans and the possibility that Republicans will take hostages again in 2012 to keep the Bush tax cuts in place were a MAJOR factor in the downgrade decision.
Actually, I know you didn’t actually read the S&P press release. You just believe in your heart that Obama did it. No further study required. No mental synapses necessary. Ignoramus.
Didn’t Obummer blame everything and ev we ryone except himself for the fent crisis? Didn’t Obummer’s mouthpieces try blaming the Tea Party today?
Remember, Obummer threatened a veto on the one program the S&P said they would not have downgraded our debt.
all i can say about @70 is, what a moron
Sorry phone app not working right.
Checksez sure it was there. That was the only thing PMSNBC talked about yesterday. Yet S&P said the additional debt in the new deal is way too high. Also the drop last week was over the S&P threat.
@67
“all started by barney frank forcing banks to make loans to minorities with neither of the two criteria, ability or intention, of paying it back.”
This was repeatedly proven to be wrong. You just keep repeating it because you are a bigoted racist.
sure rhp. lets see, first all the states attorneys general are suing the banks to prevent forclosure, and everyone knows you dont have tp pay your mortgage for years. but im sure all the inner city good citizens are keeping up with their mortgage payments even if the have to cut corners….you know, because all these years they were such good credit risks, but the evil bankers prefered to lose money than sell to minorities. too funny
Some moronic right wing eggplant, as usual, is off-gassing that correlation equals causation.
Idiot.
@60 Let me know when you’re ready to sell your stocks for 5 cents on the dollar — and enjoy your Rapture!
Issaquah Sued For Restricting Free Speech
Issaquah apparently runs an annual festival called “Salmon Days,” and if you want to distribute religious or political leaflets to the crowd, you have to go to a city-approved “expression area” — or get arrested and charged with a crime.
“We’re sorry that what happened happened, but it appears that from what little I know that plaintiff is simply not willing to try to accommodate things and is just insisting that he has a right to pass out literature anytime he wants,” (city attorney Wayne) Tanaka said.
http://www.issaquahpress.com/2.....inst-city/
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Yeah, well, guess what Wayne Baby, he does have a right to pass out his Christian tracts anywhere and anytime he wants — ever hear of the First Amendment when you were in law school?
Nate Silver peers into the data on S&P.
Why S.&P.’s Ratings Are Substandard and Porous
I’d say he rightly rips ’em a new asshole, but you should take the time to read it yourself.
Here’s a nugget for you:
President Obama is in deep trouble politically. His own inability to lead because he has zero executive experience. He seems to look at all this as one big political board game. He is disconnected..as are Reid, Pelosi, McConnel& Boehner. The debt downgrade was because of too much debt and no reasonable plan to fix it. Where is Obama’s plan? Never saw it. Where is Reid’s plan? Never saw it. Why did the idiot Boehner put forth a plan that was barely rejected (Cut, Cap & Balance) and then negotiate against himself with this deal that does nothing? He’s gutless. And so is McConnell. You folks defend Obama all you want but he is done. Stick a fork in him. The next President MUST have executive and budget experience. How about Steve Forbes and an immediate move to a Flat Tax. More revenue…everyone pays something. And cut spending back to 2007 levels….and cut Military spending and all foreign aid.
Do something for God’s Sake!!
Nothing substantive has been done.
Look at where RealClear Politics has Obama. Interesting that FoxNews has him performing the best.
http://money.cnn.com/data/premarket/
CNN has Obama at -10
I expect these numbers to drastically drop the next few weeks.
Like it or not, the buck stops with the CEO.
President Obama
@79
Military spending and all foreign aid
you can bet that congress will tell us to eat mac and cheese every night before they cut the 5 billion a year they give to israel. (6 million people, christ they wouldnt even have to work)
@79. igor,
Why did the idiot Boehner put forth a plan that was barely rejected (Cut, Cap & Balance) and then negotiate against himself with this deal that does nothing?
You already answered whatever question you have about Boehner. He’s an idiot.
And removing government spending is the answer to silly superstition, not a real problem. The problem is that with > 9% unemployment people with no money don’t buy goods & services companies can produce.
The market values US debt so highly they are giving money away. At a time when money is needed to be spent only an idiot would propose to spend less.
Shorter RHP:
When republicans are in charge and the economy goes shit = blame republicans.
When the democrats are in charge and the economy goes to shit = blame republicans.
Wow..what a fucking amazing philosophy you have there. That way, your homies can NEVER be held responsible or to blame.
amazing, simply…..fucking…..amazing.
MOT @ 74: I know you don’t want to know the real facts, because you really don’t care. You just want to reinforce your prejudices, and if the facts don’t fit, you make them up or ignore them.
But the facts are that program to which you referred was enacted in the 1970’s to counter “red-ligning” of black districts from bank loan money. During the recent downturn defaults in loans in that program were consistent with defaults everywere else. In other words, banks didn’t lose a dime because of the program, they just lost money because the economy was in the tank overall.
Now, defaults aren’t forclosures, because defaults can be cured before foreclosure. So how about foreclosure rates under the program? THERE WERE FEWER FORCLOSURES UNDER THE PROGRAM THAN OVERALL. In fact, it appears that the wealthy were more willing to walk away from a house and “give it back to the bank” than those with poorer credit or less money overall.
Why? It’s not rocket science. The rich figure it’s like any other investment – if it will take years to recoup their investment they should cut their losses and get out. They figure when the economy rebounds and they get back to earning six and seven-figure incomes, they can quickly accumulate enough money to put 50% down on a house, and their credit score wont’ be an issue.
Those of more modest circumstances, however, know that if they lose the house, they might not even be able to get an apartment with a poor credit score. Keeping that house might be the difference between being homeless or not. So they keep the house. Oh, and quite a few do it simply because they feel they have a moral obligation to pay off the loan, regardless of whether or not it’s a bad deal.
Race really isn’t a factor in this. Statistics have born this out.
But then, we know you’ve never really cared about facts or statistics. So you will just ignore this post, or post some irrelevent reply. It doesn’t matter to me one bit. I’m not arguing with you, because you will never be persuaded. I’m just posting this in case someone else stumbles upon this thread and might somehow be misled by your false and racist ramblings.
# 83: It helps when Republicans have thirty + years of pretty much destroying the American economy and the middle class. I don’t feel obliged to “balance things out” in assessing blame, just because you wish it were different.
Heck, I wish there were Republicans I could respect. I remember my own Senator Howard Baker, who continually asked “What did the President know, and when did he know it” during the Watergate hearings. He was a relatively moderate Republican with whom you could discuss economic issues and spending priorities. I know, because I had the opportunity to do so. I didn’t convince him, and he didn’t convince me, but I came away convinced that even if he were President, the country would be in reasonably competent hands.
Right now I wouldn’t trust any of the Republicans in Congress to walk my dog.
@73
Piddly runs smack into his own ignorance. S&P cited not enough debt reduction. S&P cited the cult of zero taxes. A way of paying for more debt reduction? (cue the final Jeopardy music.)
“What is more budget cuts increasing unemployment and demolishing the consumer goods sector?”
“I’m sorry, Piddly. Your wager? Everything?”
Audience laughs
“No we were looking for closing corporate subsidies and repealing the Bush tax cuts. Increasing revenue you dope. S&P said it explicitly. Enjoy your home version of the game.”
@9. igor spews:
We need to clean house in DC and get rid of everyone who voted for the recent Debt Ceiling increase without major immediate cuts.
————————-
Your observations of the problem are valid but your solution is silly. You fail to draw any distinction between Dims who voted for the bill because leadership told them to even though they believed that the cuts were too severe and Repubs who likewise voted for the bill because leadership told them to even though they believed that the cuts were not severe enough. The Dims gave the most ground and you do not and cannot know if holding out for more would have produced better results, it is sheer speculation.
@18. igor spews:
It’s going to be very difficult for President Obama to convince voters this debacle is somehow the Tea Party’s fault.
—————-
You underestimate the stupidity of the Dim base vote. Obama first says that it is stupid to raise taxes in a recession and extends the Bush tax cuts; now Obama says that it is stupid to fail to raise taxes and the same nitwits cheer him.
@23. Roger Rabbit spews:
@17 – 19: Is it possible for anyone to be more idiotic than you?
—————————————-
Yes, you do it nicely, for example, your idiotic argument that borrowing a trillion from China when Bush did it is Bad but when Obama borrows trillions more than Bush did it is Good;
“21. Roger Rabbit spews:
@9 We should have done something substantive when Bush and his GOP congress were spending money like drunken sailors and borrowing a trillion dollars from China to give tax breaks to billionaires, such as impeaching the lot of them.”
@54. Roger Rabbit spews:
@52 What was the GOP’s role in this? Are they innocent? Is this all the Democrats’ fault?
————————
Who was at fault when the junk mortgage and stock markets crashed in 08, Bush or the Pelosi House? Do you wet yourself when you try to piss backwards?
@60. manoftruth spews:
——————–
Yes, it is important to remember that the junk mortgage crash was caused by the Dim minority lending regulations which created the sub-prime market in the first place. There would have been no housing boom and no housing bust without the sub-prime garbage loans.
@83, Let’s be straight up and fair here. Obama and every Democrat who went along with this past December’s budget bill and fell in with the Republicans in the debt ceiling bill just passed are responsible for the economic contraction which will surely result.
But let’s also keep in mind that as foolhardy as Obama and those Democrats were in going along with the Republican policies, they are Republican policies.
Once again you can view the loser checksez insane rants about absolutely nothing. Of course checksez absolves DUMMOCRAPTS and how they spend spend spend. Today on TOTUS he never said maybe we made a mistake. Nope it was blame anyone except me. Since he could not blame himself the stock market tanked. The stock market saw Obummer was not serious about debt reduction but he sent his minions to fart it’s the tea party’s fault. The tea party identified the high default level. Remember Geithner claimed in April we should not be downgraded. Wrong again.
Regarding the Boehner deal, sure S&P was looking for debt reduction through higher taxes, but, you skip over like the libtardo moron you are that Ryan’s debt reduction plan would have pass S&P’s debt measurement as credible and the US would keep its AAA rating.
As always you are an idiot.
Of course Cass Sunstein’s most malleable idiot forgets how DUMMOCRAPTS have screwed the economy the 40 years they ran congress until 1994 and then again from 2007-2010. So rhp6033, since you love to blame this on the executive, then this is definitely on Obummer’s head.
Also the idiot forgets how the social security fund was robbed all those DUMMOCRAPT years.
@83 Are you actually asking people to believe that GOP economic policies of 2001-2009 had nothing to do with the mess we’re in? Amazing …
@88 “You underestimate the stupidity of the Dim base vote.”
Since you bring up this subject, I’d like to point out something I never thought I’d live to see, to wit, there are people even dumber than the GOP base. I’m referring, of course, to the Tea Party base.
@90 “Of course checksez absolves DUMMOCRAPTS and how they spend spend spend.”
Care to comment on the borrow-and-spend policies of G. W. Bush and his GOP Congresses? After the Bush era, the GOP can never again claim, with a straight face, to be the party of fiscal probity.
Hee hee, the Ryan plan. Hoo, that’s a gooder. Busted my spleen.
You mean the plan that was going to add 16 trillion in debt by 2012? That is the big deficit reducer that would stave off downgrade?
Piddly, sad, sad little intellect. Heard that one on the radio did you? The Ryan plan would have done the trick? I heard a guy claim today that the downed helicopter proves defense can’t be cut and if we just ended arts funding wed be fine. Difference between me and you is I know that’s rediculous. “If we could just get that .015% of spending out, we’ll be coming up roses.”
Delusional and ignorant is a dangerous combo. At least three items short of a Fiesta platter is Piddly.
@90 (continued) It’s clear you have no fucking idea why the stock market is tanking. (Hint: There are two main reasons and the S&P downgrade isn’t one of them.)
err, sorry, that should be 16 trillion by 2021. I got my John Cusak and Roy Scheider movies mixed up with my Rush albums.
@95 Too bad piddly is too stupid to make enough money to own stocks because I’d love to take them off his hands.
You know what they say, a fool and his stocks are soon parted, and he can wipe his ass with his bonds.
Former Oregon Senator Mark Hatfield has died.
Gov. Gregoire, who will go down in history as the governor who refused to fight for tax reform and acquiesced to dismantling public services, has told state agencies to plan for another 10% budget cut.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44.....verett_wa/
First to Roger Dumb Rabbit,
Your comments prove how senile you really are. I told you just yesterday I pulled out of the stock market in January. Being part of the problem blinds you to facts. All of Obummer’s great society programs have killed this economy. Obummercare, Dodd_Frank, have killed the job market.
Next we see you and other morons such as checksez love to blame Bush. It was you idiots who complained when we blamed Clinton. This is Obummer’s economy per Wasserman Schultz, Obummer’s official mouthpiece.
Soooooooo, keep wanting to suck the government tit.
Notice how checksez can’t acknowledge what S&P really said about the Ryan plan.
Sucks to be you, since we’re adding another 7Trillion to the debt.
You are a certifiable moron. Obummer’s prime scream was to say we need more taxes
let me see if i understand the left’s arguement. s and p downgraded because the teaparty was “willing” to default, but didnt. so then whats the problem. maybe its the fact that the bill was the same phony bill that always comes out of washington and didnt really cut anything but actually increased the debt.
Man, I think Piddly is a genuine schizophrenic.
See how quickly he jumps from @91, Democrat Congress screwed Bush’s economy (7:01pm) to @101 defending the Republican house as blameless and the filibustering republicans in the Senate blameless (8:15pm.) Damn, you held a consistent position for a full hour! You are awesome!
Back to things Piddly heard on the radio. Who said that the Ryan plan would have averted downgrade? Why it’s an unnamed “S&P Official.” And who said that the information came form said official? Why it was Paul Ryan on Fox and Friends.
Piddly, care to guess what the official S&P press release and all sourced S&P officials said about the Ryan plan? (Crickets.) That’s right. Not one word.
Nice try. Paul Ryan claiming the Paul Ryan budget was the magic answer. I’ll bet Rush and Sean et al told you the S&P said the Ryan plan would have saved the day. Didn’t they? Got a source other than Paul Ryan’s imaginary fried at S&P?
There are sheep and then there are sheep that will wander up to Wylie Coyote dressed as a sheep and hop on the grill for him. Piddly would deliver himself cooked with a side of mint jelly.
Huh??? I don’t get it cretinous right wing egglplant. That sounds like S&P is for class warfare and according to your right wing horseshit in these thread that makes S&P a bunch of lefty atheists.
Why do you care about what “lefty atheists” say about anything? Now you’re blathering that “lefty atheists” believe in the all holy Randroid Ryan plan (heh, lot of “revenue increasers” there, yea right) as the “one true way” to a AAA rating…
Wonders never cease from the poop pile between the ears of the cretinous stink right eggplant of these comment threads..
Mark Hatfield was a true statesman, an American of the first order. He was the essence of a Washington/Oregon Republican, back in the day. They are all gone now. I wish we had more Mark Hatfields around. RIP, Senator, your party died before you did.
by the way, raise your hand if you do not think there are a bunch of bernie madoffs with their hand in the downgrade and have profited by it.
and of course, their goal is to extract every cent from us.
If Republicans had gone along with Obama’s cuts and revenues plan, S&P would not have downgraded the U.S. credit rating says head of S&P ratings.
Hey Piddly, I owe you a half assed apology. Here’s the statement from Fox and Friends this morning that gets the right all gung-ho about the Ryan plan. But that Ignores 2/3 of the story of course.
What is actually said is that any plan that added up to 4 Trillion in cuts would have done it. So it is equally true, as the official says, that the Obama proposal would have done it. But move on to Ryan, nothing to see there. The debt commission plan would also have done it. What absolutely positively did NOT do it was, “98% of everything (Speaker Boehner) wanted. (Boehner) is happy about that.”
Funny that the Ryan plan claimed to cut 4 trillion of spending over 10 years even though every last dime of it and more would be wiped out by tax cuts adding to a 20 year 16 trillion dollar deficit.
So shout it loud to the rooftops. If Republicans had gone along with Obama’s plan for cuts and revenue increases, we would be rated AAA today. Standard and Poors said so this morning.
@101 “All of Obummer’s great society programs have killed this economy. Obummercare, Dodd_Frank, have killed the job market.”
Yawn. It’s all Obama’s fault. The economy was doing fine until Obama came along and ruined it. Sure, putz.
Asian Markets Tumble In Advance Of Tuesday Trading
Asian financial markets fell for the second straight night, presaging another rough day for U.S. exchanges on Tuesday.
South Korean and Hong Kong exchanges were off 7%, Taiwan was down 3.4%, Australia was off 3.2%, New Zealand fell 3.9%, and China’s Shanghai Index was down 1.3%.
These declines are steeper than Sunday night’s declines preceding Monday’s 634-point drop in the Dow average.
Oil prices on the New York Mercantile exchange further weakenend tonight to $76/bbl. The dollar fell against the yen and euro again.
Experienced traders said investors are fleeing from risky assets because of European debt troubles and fears the U.S. recovery is stalling.
The Federal Reserve’s “Federal Open Market Committed” (FOMC) meets Tuesday, but Fed watchers don’t expect any new action on interest rates or quantitative easing. The most that’s expected is some guidance on how long the Fed intends to maintain its zero interest rate policy.
Also on tap Tuesday are six recall elections in Wisconsin. Democrats need to win at least three of the six seats, and then defend their two senators facing recall elections next week, to take control of the state senate. Both parties have expressed optimism that their side will win. Based on recent polls, Democrats have a strong lead in one district, narrow leads in two more, and two additional districts where Republican incumbents have narrow leads might be in play, depending on turnout and whether independent voters are swayed by expensive ad campaigns. Whether Democrats wrest the state senate away from the GOP looks like it’s gonna be a squeaker.
@111
so roger, you seem to be on top of things. do you think this is all being manipulated so money is flowing to certain people? an answer of just republicans wont do. do you think if that were true dems would just oh yeah, republicans can manipulate things but we cant. these are the really big boys, above the doj or fbi. kind of like when mad dog tanner says to marty mcfly, “kid, i am the police”
Roger Rabbit’s Take: The stock market’s recent selloff has taken indexes and many share prices back to where they were at the start of the year, but that doesn’t make stocks a screaming bargain, given that stocks had gotten overpriced and a slowing recovery or double-dip recession will knock down earnings and raise P/Es. Even after yesterday’s seemingly impressive plunge, stocks aren’t dirt cheap. I’m holding back for now. I doubt the decline is over; I expect stock prices to continue eroding for a while yet. I’ll be looking for signs of a turnaround before I commit money to stocks.
I don’t think it’s a sure thing that Democrats will evict GOPers from majority control in the state senate, but I think they have a decent shot at it. They’re leading in three races, and I believe they will successfully defend both of their seats next week, so they may have the edge. But two of those races are close, whereas they’d have to overcome 5-point deficits to take either of the two GOP-leaning districts in play — the third one is out of reach. My guess is the Democrats will win three seats tomorrow, but we could see two or four. They’ve got to get at least three, and four would give them insurance against a loss next week. I think the Dems’ chances are slightly better than 50-50.
just a hint rog…qe2
@113 “so roger, you seem to be on top of things. do you think this is all being manipulated so money is flowing to certain people?”
No.
Two things are driving the market down, computerized program trading by large institutional investors, and investors shifting money from equity mutual funds to bonds and bond funds in search of safety, which forces mutual funds to sell stocks to meet cash withdrawals.
Your suggestion of “money flowing to certain people” seems to assume that financial trading is a zero-sum game. In fact, over $2 trillion of wealth vanished in yesterday’s decline.
@115 I guess you could argue the Federal Reserve “manipulates” the flow of money, but that’s really too strong a word to describe the effect of what they do. The Fed can exert some control over interest rates, credit supply, and money supply, but most of their tools are indirect ones.
I’m not sure what you mean by your reference to QE2, which ended in June. Its purpose was to stimulate the economy by providing banks with money they could lend. Instead, it seems to have gone straight into the stock market.
The main problem in the economy is lack of demand. The economy doesn’t need more capital; it’s awash in capital, and there’s more capital than can be used, so some of it is sitting idle. That’s why arguments that raising taxes on the rich would hurt growth by constricting the supply of capital don’t hold water.
how in the hell, can you be so lucid at times, and not understand that we cannot keep borrowing and raising the defecit forever. it is beyond me.
Notice how checkdez writes a lot but sez nothing. His whole worthless commentary revolves around himself. He forgets he jumped around all over farm with his pitiful comments and I, being the nice guy I am tried to answer his silly rants. Notice he has nothing for his argument so he jumps around forgetting his own stupidity.
He has no response to the S&P Ryan comment. This proves he never read the downgrade report.
What a moron. The stock market is down 16% due to your preznit not taking the lead. He could not look into the screen and talk to Americans without using his TOTUS.
Why is Geithner still there?
So in closing checksez, where is Obummer’s plan? What will he present next. Oh… wait a minute, he never offered a plan. It was smoke and mirrors.
LMBBAO!
@119
Find me any mention of the Ryan report in the S&P downgrade press release. Ask YLB to help you. Here’s the full report Quote from me the parts that talk about the Ryan plan. Piddly can’t, cause it doesn’t exist. The fact that Piddly keeps implying it does PROVES he hasn’t read it.
And since he has the memory of a toddler, remember Obama offering to agree to a full $4T in cuts in exchange for $1T in new revenue? Most of the world does. But it doesn’t fit Piddly’s world view so he just ignores facts.
Notice how Piddly can’t answer to why he held two diametrically opposed positions in the span of a little over an hour?
121 – The eggplant is helpless.
@118 Who are you talking to? Me? When did I ever endorse the borrow-and-squander policies of George W. Bush and his Republican Congress of knuckledraggers? Clinton bequeathed surpluses to Monkeyface that would have paid off the entire national debt within a decade or so. Stupid Republicans spent trillions, doubled the national debt (with nothing to show for it), and bequeathed huge deficits — plus a shattered economy — to Obama.
Sure, I supported the stimulus, and criticized it as too small — in that respect, I’m simply parroting 95% of our nation’s reputable economists (they know more about this than I do). I study history, and history teaches us that Keynes knew what he was talking about, and the Hooveries didn’t. What’s happening today speaks for itself — with the GOP majority in the House hamstringing economic policy, all Obama can do is watch the economy slide back into a funk. Republicans have been very vocal about what their priorities are — making sure Obama is a failure in office. They don’t seem to give a damn about ordinary Americans. They got elected in 2010 by promising jobs, and that was the last time anyone heard the word “jobs” from them.
@118 (continued) A recession is not when you balance the budget or impose austerity measures! Cutting government spending during a recession deepens the recession. Most Americans understand this (after all, the math is simple); the latest polls show the Tea Party’s approval rating has dropped to less than 20%. Of course, it also helps if you direct government spending toward things that create jobs at home, instead of just blowing up money in a rathole like Iraq.
@119 “His whole worthless commentary revolves around himself.”
And yours doesn’t? When did you ever say anything?
Pussybutt is a study in self-admiration.
@122 Water it — maybe that’ll help. I doubt it, though. There’s only so much you can get out of an eggplant.