Open thread 6-24-05

Ramble on.


  1. 3

    Goldy spews:

    (For those who are wondering about the context of the first two comments, this was originally posted with no headline or body.)

  2. 4


    Hey did anybody hear that Rumsfeld put in his resignation again. Bush declined it.

    Karl Rove is a genious!!!!

    Drunk of the Week– Ted Kennedy.

  3. 5

    DamnageD spews:

    damn goldy …spoil all the fun!

    I was looking forward to a few “huh’s?”

    How the fuck can a person be refused their resignation? It conjeres up the image of an employee and their boss…

    (e) I QUIT!!
    (B) YOU CAN’T QUIT….

    ad nauseaum….

    So does that make it 4 “official” resignations now?

  4. 6

    Martin Ringhofer spews:

    Dead People Can Still Vote In King County…

    Dead People Can Still Vote In King County…

    TODAY – KING COUNTY COUNCIL DISTRICT 4 – LARRY PHILLIPS’ DISTRICT, KING COUNTY: In a stunning reminder of what “a total mess” King County Elections is, Martin Ringhofer again received voter registration cards for his dead parents after he contacted King County Elections about their current status as profiled in the 8 January 2005 Seattle Post-Intelligencer HERE. These cards were part of the King County Elections attempt to “keep King County’s voter rolls accurate”.

    In fact, King County Elections said in their press release about these voter registration cards:

    Countywide mailings are the primary tool election officials use to receive information about voters who have moved. For this process to work, election officials depend on voters’ help.

    “This effort really is a partnership with the public.” said Sherril Huff Menees, assistant director of Records, Elections and Licensing Services. “Addresses, names and signatures change over time and a countywide mailing like this is a chance for voters to get their most current information to us before the fall election season begins.”

    Last summer following the countywide mailing, election officials received more than 120,000 returned registration cards with information about deceased voters and changes of addresses.

    “As a responsible voter, if you receive a postcard for someone else, write ‘addressee moved, return to sender’ and drop it in the mail. Voters need to do their part to keep King County’s voter rolls accurate,” said Huff Menees. “The September primary is too important to miss simply because we can’t find your new address.”
    Yet last summer – and several other times before, Martin Ringhofer contacted King County Elections telling them to strike his parents’ names and addresses from the voter rolls.

    He said, “It is really beyond the pale that Dean Logan would send new voter registration cards to anyone who has been DEAD for nearly nine years. This adds new meaning to there being an afterlife after dying. Quite frankly, it is astonishing that such a thing is even possible.”

    For obvious reasons, Ringhofer thinks that between this incident, the findings of a “culture of fear that dissuades employees from informing their supervisors of problems or offering solutions to them” and “Ineffective implementation of critical operational controls and quality assurance processes that identify and address inevitable human errors before they undermine the elections process” in The Webster Street Memo/The King County Independent Task Force on Elections Draft Initial Findings of the Task Force’s Committees, and the many other “troubling” incidents in King County Elections in recent years such as more votes than voters and vote-by-mail materials mailed without a ballot – the King County Council should bring to an immediate vote King County Councilman Reagan Dunn’s Resolution of “No Confidence” in Dean Logan (filed in LegiSearch as 2005-0219).

    Ringhofer says, “Aside of the implications for holding honest elections, it is cruel and abusive that I should be receiving yet new voter registration cards for my dead parents. It is not funny; I am not laughing; and Dean Logan has to be brain-dead to go on the airwaves and promise the public that he has fixed the voter registration problems. I sure would like to hear from anybody who can explain how this is possible. How much of this must we put up with before Dean Logan is FIRED, or prosecuted?”

  5. 7

    headless lucy spews:

    BR’ER RABBIT RUFUS: George W. and Laura Bush have had their run-ins with the law regarding drunken driving. Laura Bush even killed her own boyfriend in 1963 in a besotted car crash. In addition, the Bush twins do not comport themselves as Chistian young ladies should when it comes to drugs,sex and alcohol. I will point this out to you every time you refer to Ted Kennedy’s former alcohol problem, you hypocritical sack of fascist shit.

  6. 8

    Chuck spews:

    Thing is Kennedy got drunk and got his secretary knocked up, got drunk and killed her, then just went home…

  7. 9

    headless lucy spews:

    That’s all just speculation on your part. Where’s the proof? Your pres. Bush dishonored and lied about his fellow Rep. John McCain’s war record while all the time being a criminal deserter, himself. The fact that you can support and apologise for this living lying sack of shit is a mystery to all of us who still have a moral compass.

  8. 10

    All tools here, and yet there are still screws loose. spews:

    “while all the time being a criminal deserter, himself.”

    Ok see-B.S., PROOF PLEASE!!!

  9. 11

    marks spews:

    headless @9

    is a mystery to all of us who still have a moral compass.

    Your moral compass needs to be recalibrated, dude. You spout unsubstantiated crap about GWB (which I don’t particularly mind)and his wife (which proves the direction your compass is stuck in), then go on to say Kennedy’s well documented Chappaquidic escapade amounts to nothing?

  10. 12

    headless lucy spews:

    I’m saying the same sort of thing you’re saying, yet you claim the moral highground! You’re hypoccrisy is incredible! Show me the proof that GWB didn’t desert. That should be easy enough to find. Yet, you can’t, because it doesn’t exist. Your president is innocent like OJ.

  11. 13

    All tools here, and yet there are still screws loose. spews:

    headless lucy @ 12

    “Your president is innocent like OJ.”

    So is YOUR governor.

  12. 14

    marks spews:

    Show me the proof that GWB didn’t desert.

    Not until you show me proof you are intelligent. The teacher certification you bought in Aruba doesn’t count as proof.

  13. 15

    All tools here, and yet there are still screws loose. spews:

    marks @ 14

    LOL! scares me to think he/she is fulfilling Dewey’s evil plan without even batting an eye.

  14. 16

    dj spews:

    Ringhofer @ 6

    “Dead People Can Still Vote In King County…”

    Dead people have never been able to vote in King County. Being dead pretty much shuts down voting as both a right and, in a more practical sense, as something that is physically possible.

    There will ALWAYS be dead people still on the voting roles during any election. What does sometimes occur is living people voting on behalf of dead people. They shouldn’t do that–it is a crime. But, again, our elections will always be susceptible to this. There were a whopping known 19 cases of people voting on behalf of dead people in the 2004 general election. Of the two convicted individuals, both had, in their grief, voted for a recently deceased spouse. That kind of thing will likely happen every election.

    I’m sorry about your parents; but your anecdotal case is completely unconvincing. How do we know you followed to proper procedure for removing dead people from the roles? I would hope there are protections in place to prevent pranksters from calling in, claiming someone dies, in order to remove living people from the roles.

    In any case, it sounds like you need to write ‘deceased, return to sender’ on the card and drop it in the mail. This alarmist bullshit isn’t fooling anyone, though.

  15. 17

    dj spews:

    tool @ 13

    “So is YOUR governor[, innocent like OJ]”

    I don’t follow. I’ve been away a few days, was Gregoire accused of a crime or something?

  16. 18


    These donks are hilarious. Hey Headless I found a memo exonerating Bush. It dated September 1972 and appears to authentic. I will E-mail to you…hehehe.. if you give me another…Blhahahaha… 30 minutes.

  17. 19

    headless lucy spews:

    Do you think McCain plays payback? Food for thought, dumbass. And I’m sure he’s got some real friends in the military.

  18. 20

    Marilyn spews:

    Opening a new can of worms: I’m curious as to how others feel about reinstating the draft. What ages? restrictions? how to address issues of fairness, exemptions? etc. A draft as compared to an all-volunteer army? benefits/downsides of each, etc.


  19. 21

    headless lucy spews:

    Do you know why they witheld 250,000 troops stateside in the US during the Vietnam conflict? To control “disturbances” at home. They don’t want a draft. That’s their worst nightare!

  20. 22

    Marilyn spews:

    Lucy@21: No, I didn’t know that. Which troops were held back? Were they the National Guard? Reserves? In the past, those troops were customarily on home soil, as are a given amount of other career military. I’m not challenging your statment, I just don’t recall that as a specific policy. Personally, I would like see more National Guard and Reserves on home soil most of the time. In the past they typically served in national emerencies (not necessarily political emergencies, but things like natural disasters – earthquakes, floods, etc). By “they” I assume you mean the current administration. Why would the draft be their worst nightmare? I mean it’s not like they or theirs had to serve – so why would it be their worst nightmare? Marilyn

  21. 23

    DINGDONG spews:


  22. 24

    headless lucy spews:

    re 22 Marilyn: The Pentagon Papers(Vol.IV,p. 541) I have a lot more documentation if this is not enough for you.

  23. 25

    headless lucy spews:

    RE 22: I think it is obvious by observing the military’s current recruitment woes to envision some strong citizen resistence to a renewed draft. That kind of organized citizen resistence runs counter to neo-con efforts to create a fascist American state.

  24. 26


    And that dumbass drunk has the audacity to tell Rumsfeld to resign.

    Headless– McCain is your only hope to pin that lie on bush. After Rather-Gate no one will listing to the lying leftist media.. will they. God your a pathic idiot!!!!!

  25. 29

    headless lucy spews:

    Does work that way. It’d be so easy to show the records of him there and doing his job. But those records do not exist.

  26. 30

    marks spews:

    headless, you ignorant slut!

    You are using the “when did you stop beating your wife” argument.

    Don’t you have some papers to grade?

  27. 31

    headless lucy spews:

    You’re just saying that. You don’t know what that means. I say you’re comparing apples to oranges.

  28. 32

    Chuck spews:

    headless lucy@29
    The proof is the fact that he isnt behind bars for disserting, the same as we have to assume I have obeyed the law—I have never been charged or convicted of any crime…

  29. 33


    Why did you choose the name RUFUS?

    Comment by headless lucy— 6/25/05 @ 4:48 pm

    Rufus is the second son of Simon in the bible. You know the one who carried the cross. He was known for his honesty and integrity. Do you have any other suggestions?

  30. 37

    WingersRule! - The Kybo! spews:


    honesty and integrity.

    Of which you’ve shown little to nothing. What a riot! Keep Rufus but add the doofus.

  31. 38

    DCF spews:

    Chuck–you sure do post a lot here, are you on vacation, have you been laid off, or do you post while you drive across country?

  32. 39

    Chuck spews:

    Well, everything I have is paid for (houses, cars and such), kids are grown, so I drive when I need the money and that allows me to spend a lot of time at home with my girlfriend. ;)

  33. 40

    Chuck spews:

    See thats what happen when you stick to conservative values and not piss your money away like liberals.

  34. 41



    I hear you Chuck… personal responsibity has always been a conservative value. Give a man a fish he eats for that day.. teach a man to fish he eats for life. Most liberals dont understand this concept.

  35. 42

    dj spews:

    RUFUS @ 41,

    Sorry RUFUS, you are confusing “personal responsibility” with public education. There is nothing particularly “conservative” about public education.

    The “personal responsibility” thing as a conservative value is mostly bullshit. From what I see, whenever it doesn’t fit their agenda, Republicans are quick to abandon this ideal. These days, Republicans are just as quick as Democrats to regulate people’s decisions rather than maximizing freedoms and holding people accountable when they make bad decisions.

  36. 43

    Winger Rule! - The Kybo! spews:

    doofus @ 41

    Then why do you make so many irresponsible, poorly thought out opinions?

  37. 44

    jsa on beacon hill spews:

    DamnageD wanted to know my harebrained thoughts on why people get nastier on the weekends.

    It’s easy.

    Somewhat normal people post from work every weekday. I’m in my office 8 (or 9 or 10 or 11) hours every day. Sometimes when it’s time to blow off steam, I write here.

    (No hectoring about screwing off on company time. My boss knows exactly what I do at work and that I spend large parts of the day goofing off on the web. I spend the rest of the day handling extremely difficult systems problems that he would have to hire four separate highly-paid professionals to manage, so he’s willing to let me spend a few hours screwing off in exchange for the boatload of money I save him).

    Saturday and Sunday are not work days. I’m not at my desk, and neither are most of our weekday correpondents. I dunno about anyone else, but I spend my weekends mowing the lawn (a half hour to dedicate to the smell of cut grass and thinking about smashing the State), visting friends, hiking, taking in some high culture, or watching today’s Pride parade and throwing around double-entendres while watching the floats go by:

    Bear handing out balloons: Here’s one for your daughter, and can you blow this up?

    jsa: Absolutely. I love blowing things.

    Bear blushes, exits stage right.

    Anyhow, I’m not here weekends. A lot of people aren’t here weekends. They have church to attend, places to see, friends to do, whatever keeps you happy while that big old Earth spins around. I’m here now just to check out the Sunday theater listings in the alt-rags before going out.

    The people who are left think about politics waaaaay more than is possibly healthy. As such, they take grousing at each other on a blog more seriously than it’s worth.

    p.s. marks. I like you, but don’t take lowering your discourse out on headless lucy.

    I have people shriek at me on several occasions (I believe chardonnay called me “diseased” more than once for my perceived moral failings. Thank all Gods she didn’t get to read my mind when a bunch of half-naked, painted and hairless bois and girls were gyrating down Broadway today, or she would have had an aneurysm). Although it’s been tempting, I’ve never had to yell back at anyone.

    Trust me, it’s better to avoid it. Yelling brings your blood pressure up, gets the adrenaline going, and a bunch of other things tied into the fight reflex. In real life, a good yellfest lasts 10 or 15 minutes. On a blog, it can go on for hours or days. It can’t be good to keep the adrenaline going for that long. Keep your yelling IRL and your blogging somewhat civilized.

  38. 45

    righton spews:

    Yipes; did my best to avoid tv to avoid the pride thing, and darn it, stumbled into it here.

  39. 46


    These days, Republicans are just as quick as Democrats to regulate people’s decisions rather than maximizing freedoms and holding people accountable when they make bad decisions.

    Give me some examples… what Republican regulations are you talking about?

  40. 47

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    Don’t trust headless. Due to her headlessness, she lies, definitely about our flag, probably about being a wrestling coach, and probably about teaching! Maybe she does eat urinal biscuits! Where did you get that BS degree from headless?

  41. 48

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    Headless, why bring Laura Bush and her car crash up now? I understand this is an open thread, but do you think like a normal adult? Why did I ask that as I already know the answer, NO!

    RUFUS – Remember, it was the Democrats on the SCOTUS who on June 23, took away the liberals rights to that gay pride land that they hold so dear. Just think that hall in SF can be condemned by the eminent domain right and their good friends in the SCOTUS said it was just dandy! It was the wascally Republicans who were against it. Thomas, Scalia, Rehnquist, & O’Connor objected. Isn’t it lovely, isn’t it wonderful, Republicans who see the world correctly.

    How about dem apples?

  42. 49

    Martin Ringhofer spews:

    Help STOP WASTE, FRAUD, AND ABUSE of legal voters

    Go on record that you are mad as hell and you are not going to take it anymore

    Monorail was approved by 800 votes. Were they legal voters?

    WHO really won the last Governor’s election?

    Why is King County STILL sending out voter registration cards to DEAD people, after they PROMISED the citizens in May they would clean up their elections department?

    What good is it to pay another expensive Blue Ribbon committee – as Ron Sims has hired – if King County doesn’t intend to correct the problems??

    How will we know who truly wins the next election in November?

    Ron Sims is running for King County executive again … Why would he ignore the current election department shortcomings , problems and security exposures unless it serves to help him during his upcoming race for King County Executive?

    Go on record that you are mad as hell and you are not going to take it anymore.

    Call and write Mike Siegel at KTTH, at 8AM every morning, until LOGAN is FIRED or RESIGNS and the holes in our voting systems and laws are plugged. KTTH 206-726-6906.

    Call and write Kirby and John at KVI Siegel at KVI, Call-In Lines: King County: (206) 421-5757 or Toll Free: (888 312-5757

  43. 50

    jsa on beacon hill spews:

    PacMan @ 48:

    As much as it makes your heart beat with glee at the idea of a Wal-Mart being dropped in the middle of SF or Seattle, it ain’t gonna happen. Here’s why:

    1) Cities have broad tax bases supported by businesses and citizens who are generally willing to tax themselves in order to pay for services. This ruling will have a much bigger effect on suburbs like Newcastle, Sammamish, etc. where you have large bedroom communities requiring basic services (you know, police, fire, swimming pools, boring stuff like that), and a narrow base of businesses to tax. It becomes appealing to take property and convert it by fiat to commercial in order to accomplish this goal.

    2) Cities like Seattle and San Francisco have neighborhood committees that can make rulings with the force of law as to how property will be used. This creates its own problems, but they tend to err against more development, and not for it.

    For instance, down in my end of town, the Moriguchi family (old, old money in the International District) purchased a piece of land on which they were to develop the new Uwajimaya. They spent several years fighting the International District neighborhood committee to actually begin construction. The committee was just not comfortable with a modern shopping center being put in. They like the moldy shop-houses in Chinatown, and somehow figure their constituents do too.

    (Note to ID neighborhood committee: Taipei, Hongkong, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Bangkok, Manila, and most of the other cities your constituents hail from have built large, modern shopping centers as capitalism and affluence have rolled through Asia in the last 20 years. Middle-class Asians in Asia like clean, modern shops as much as anyone else does. Keeping the International District as a pre-Revolutionary museum piece serves no good purpose except to drive people to centers in Kent and Edmonds that have no such silly regulations).

    If you followed by tangent this far, again, the effects will be felt much more out in the ‘burbs where development is directed by large property developers and neighborhood input is near-zero.

    I’m not pleased with the idea of decent houses being razed to build an office park, as happened in New London, but I am guardedly optimistic. If the thought that your house can be taken by your municipality doesn’t persuade you to get involved in local politics, I simply don’t know what will.

  44. 51

    dj spews:

    RUFUS @ 46

    “Give me some examples… what Republican regulations are you talking about?”

    Medical marijjuana laws, restrictions on reproductive decisions (both abortion and new contraceptive methods), the special Terry Schaivo law, restrictions on people handling social security numbers, attempted constitutional ammendments to restrict the definition of marriage, restrictions (in Virginia and D.C.) on use of radar detectors, attempts to control distribution and possesion of sexual materials, the “carnivore” technology (makes our internet usage and habits available to the government), helmet laws (bicycle, motorcycle, skateboarding–passed in both Dem and GOP strongholds), car seat laws for children (ditto), airport security procedures that make travel much more difficult, federal attempts to eliminate assisted suicide laws.

    There is a whole special class that comes out of the Patriot act and subsequent related additions. They restrict our freedom of association (groups we can belong to, regardless of whether we provide financial support), restrict who we can recieve military training from, increased control of some materials that can be used for bombs (drugs, too), erosion of constitutional rights and due process for those being investigated for terrorist activities (e.g. administrative denial of bail for suspected terrorists),

    Now, I have not made value judgements on these–some of these things I agree with, some I don’t. But, it is unquestionable that the GOP is as active in eroding our civil liberties as Dems.

    Interestingly, one of the first things mentioned in the current Republican Platform is that the government’s primary responsibility is to provide security. I think this goes completely against traditional Republican values. The traditional GOP primary function for the government is to protect liberty! The states that do the best job of regulating security are either dictatorships or extremely oppressive (e.g. Singapore).

  45. 52

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    I have a break so here is my take.

    I want to take another tack on this subject. What is the issue here? I thought the Democratic Party is the party of the little guy. Well party participants, what just happened to the little guy? He got screwed by the party of the little guy, by members held in high esteem by you all, liberals on the SCOTUS. Has it hit home yet? Your party cares nothing about the little guy. It cares about big government and how it can hoist big government on the backs of the little guy for their primal benefit!

    The little guy lets say sees a piece of property on a river. He purchases that property. Some more little people buy property there. Now 20 years later super-duper big company says to government, I can develop that land and pay you tewlve times the property value and generate tax receipts from the product sales my business will generate. What does the city or county council do? They screw the little guy for more taxes. Oh oh, what you say? They took the property, no it can’t be. The little guy who probably voted for the party of the little guy just got screwed by big government the friend of the democratic party, no longer the friend of the little guy. What if someone wanted to develop Hyannisport or East Hampton Long Island? Your liberal friends would scream bloody murder over the potential land grab. But, but, but those are not the little guys! Exactly my point!

    I say this was argumentatively the biggest eye opener I have ever seen in the last 20 years regarding liberal vs. conservative politics. Loocy, IT, dj, david, et. al. how do you reconcile support this policy beyond the actual land grab it is? It’s big government enlarging itself over land use as seen by me as taxation without representation.

    jsa: This is not about WalMart or other companies coming to take the land vs. local governments enticed by taxes deciding it’s for the common good. You may think that way for now, but watch what happens over the next few years, as the debate will not be who owns the land but how can our budget shortfall be overcome with these new taxes. Watch and see if liberal cities like Seattle begin to reorder the landscape from this decision; one done by Democrats screwing Democrats. I love it.

    I travel to Everett every so often for business. I was shown the Tulalip Tribes Casino. It is modern and huge. I noticed WalMart, Home Depot and the Seattle Outlet Mall. I was told the Marysville City council said no to WalMart years ago. Now talk to any person in Snohomish County who thinks for a living, and they agree that Marysville voted stupidly over the WalMart project. The Tulalip tribes people reaping the tax benefits. Marysville in their shortsightedness lost a big chunk of tax revenue and now have to live with that decision forever!!! Land use, jsa, it’s all about the land use and the taxes derived from it.

  46. 53

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    Goldy, I wonder what I said in that post to have it checked? I used the word screwing the little man and Democrat in the same sentence structure? I await the system check.

  47. 54

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    I know Hastings is on the committee looking in on all the travel issues. Are WA people up in arms over his misfilings? I know when Nancy Pelosi’s misfilings occurred, there was laughter in many places, especially on KSFO.

  48. 55

    jsa on beacon hill spews:

    Pac-Man @ 53 (et. al)

    You don’t seem to read so well. Let’s review the decision.

    The Supreme Court said that the Constitution does not enumerate (as in specifiy individually) the meaning of public use. The municipality of New London is free to interpret public use through legislation, so is the city of Seattle, so is Pierce County, and so on. For the SCOTUS to define public use for the entire nation now and forever (or at least for the next 20 years until this case is taken up again), would be against the 10th Ammendment, and so on.

    I don’t understand your point about the mall up on the Tulalip reservation. The people of Snohomish County voted to keep Wal-Mart out because they wanted Snohomish County to stay rural. I think voting against growth is bad, but as a city slicker, I’ll say that pretty reflexively. The Tulalip tribe wanted to build an employment and revenue base that did not rely on fireworks or gambling, both of which have problems associated with them. The people of Snohomish County are one group of landowners with one set of interests, the Tulalip tribe are another with a different set of interests. There are a lot of people on the res who need jobs. The people with ambition and skills usually don’t stay on the res. This is a social issue that I don’t want to go in to because it is waaaaaaaaaay outside my area of knowledge. The tribal leaders who built that mall are delivering low-skill jobs for people on the res. What is the problem again?

    Also, for Shiva’s sake get off the “Democrats are the party of ____ routine”. People vote with the party that matches their interests. I live in a city, I’m a social libertarian, and I am willing to pay taxes as long as I see benefit from those taxes being paid.

    If the Republican Party decided to end the culture war and let people worship 100 gods or no god as their personal values see fit, and if they decided that funding roads and schools was more important than building the military and the security services (on a credit card, I may add), I’d vote Republican tomorrow. They can’t see fit to do that, so I can’t see my way to support the Republican party.

  49. 56

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    JSA: I don’t have a lot of time so here is my response. Please do not assume I didn’t read it. I downloaded it from the Cornell Law Center link. Anyway, it seems to me to conflict with the last part of the 5th Amendment.

    Amendment V

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    Seems to me that the rights of one group or person trump the rights of another person for taxes. Only the public use is approved by Amendment V. This judgment supports the private use of property over this amendment.

    Sections B & C of the decision say to me that the city can specify economic development when they want claim public use, public use. Now any city can use this decision over complaints of the people who will lose the property. Apparently you are short sighted in regards to decisions like this. Once the precedent is set, watch what happens over the next few years. This was used if I remember correctly over rancher lands for the stringing of high voltage transmission lines. Now people have more CA state rights over land grabs.

    Regarding WalMart in Marysville, I went on what I was told. He is a Democrat. If I received faulty information, then guilty as charged.

    Bye for now!

  50. 57

    jsa on beacon hill spews:

    pac-man @ 57:

    I’m sure you read it. I’m just curious as to how you read it. We’re hinging on these definitions of public use, just compensation, etc.

    First, remember that all the plaintiffs were going to receive just compensation. They just didn’t particularly want to sell, and the municipality of New London was arguing that the gain in revenue was public use enough.

    (I want to state clearly, and unambiguously, that I think this was a dumb, shortsighted move on the part of the municipality. If it happens in my ‘hood, removing the council member(s) who made that happen would be a primary goal of mine for years to come.)

    Now, let’s jump over to Parallel America and suppose the Supreme Court ruled that “public use” was not grounds for taking the land under ED.

    I’m a developer. I want a chunk of land for an office park. I push to have this chunk of land zoned commercial. At the same time, as land gets zoned commercial, the appraisal values (based on the saleable value of the land, remember, not on what you paid for it 30 years ago), start climbing up, as does the tax burden.

    Pretty soon, that old invisible hand takes over. The cost of sitting on a piece of (now taxed as expensive commerical) land, outweighs the benefit of drawing a deep breath, putting up a for sale sign, walking away with a pile of money in hand, and moving on.

    Same result. It just takes a little longer.

    I love the libertarian Fairy Tale of “it’s my land, and nobody, and I mean nobody can tell me what to do with it.”. Like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Great Pumpkin, this is a fairy tale, and it wasn’t this Supreme Court decision that broke it.

    And yes, I understand the citizens of Marysville are probably kicking themselves. They got the development they were so looking to avoid, and worse, it wound up on the wrong side of a tax boundary.

    I grew up over in what’s now called Newcastle. When I was a young’un, there were open fields, horse farms, creeks for kids to play in, and blueberry bogs not too far away to pick fruit in. The creeks were filled, the bogs are office parks, and the horse farms are now townhomes or some fool thing like that. I don’t care. I didn’t even like the place. But anyone who fights development without a viabale alternative to it besides “NO! NO! NO!” will lose.

  51. 59

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Ringhofer @ 6

    How long have you referred to yourself in the 3rd person? Do you find yourself talking to yourself all day? Give Dr. Phil a call!

  52. 61

    PacMan - The Best Game Ever spews:

    View the SCOTUS Land Transfer Thread. THe land transfer has started as I suggested.