Anyone notice that Cynical hasn’t been hanging around in the comment threads lately, relentlessly flogging Rasmussen’s presidential approval poll numbers? Hmm… I wonder why?
Of course, most of the fluctuation in Obama’s approval rating has come at the hands of independents, which is in itself a sad commentary on the state of American politics. These independents are the ones politicians have to appeal to in order to win elections… you know, the exact same voters who can’t seem to make up their fucking minds. That explains a lot.
Independent = indecisive? How does that follow?
You have to go back to July 14, 2009 to find a higher approval rating out of Rasmussen. To put it another way, the Klown’s head has likely exploded. No doubt it’s made quite the mess out in the ol’ goat shed.
The reason Obama’s approval ratings are up are two-fold: the economy is starting to recover (albeit slowly) and the inept republicans are concentrating on everything BUT the economy (and their health care repeal has been losing popularity as the republicans lies are pointed out).
@ 1
Independent = indecisive?
For some people, being an independent means you can’t choose sides. Being a self-described independent, I prefer to believe that being an independent means you aren’t going to let a political party do your thinking for you.
Steve
My heart goes out to that poor goat. You just know that with Obama’s numbers going up, Cynny is coping by increasing his visits to the shed. Ugh. It’s so maddening that we can’t do anything for that poor creature.
gotta agree with Eric Arrr here, I’m an Independent and I have no problem making up my mind. Other than John Anderson and his $0.50 gas tax in 1980 (and where the hell did the cent symbol key go anyway?!?), I always vote for the Democrat.
re 1: Every independent I’ve ever spoken to says that they vote for the candidate — not the party. Every independent voter I’ve ever spoken to either doesn’t know anything about the candidates and is just blowing smoke — or they don’t know even who the candidates are.
They usually just respond to the latest political commercial they’ve been exposed to — hence — the indecisive label.
Or — they are conservatives who always vote Republican -=- but they masquerade as ‘Independents”.
Eh, Cynical signed off a few weeks ago. No doubt someone will take up his banner soon enough.
As for the underlying data, well, people had to catch on to the sheer number and boldness of the lies the right has been saying for the last two years sooner or later. I wish it had happened before the 2010 midterms, but better now than in 2013 when we’re all being ground under the (stiletto) heels of President Palin and VP Bachmann.
“the exact same voters who can’t seem to make up their fucking minds.”
Yeah, that’s the way to do it, Goldy: make snarky, elitist comments about the independents. Yeah, that’ll get ’em to vote for “progressive” Dems!
While I find the concept of being an independent to be laudable, I cannot quite grasp how an informed, thinking person could be independent in the current political climate.
@ 11
While I find the concept of being an independent to be laudable, I cannot quite grasp how an informed, thinking person could be independent in the current political climate.
I don’t think it’s at all difficult to grasp, though that depends on what you think “independent” means. I don’t think it means that you never take sides. I think it means that you don’t declare allegiance to any one political party.
And, yes, I agree. Even if I were a conservative, I’d find the Republican party so repulsive right now that Democrats, even those more liberal than me, would offer a better alternative. But, then, I do have a significant liberal bias.
Pres. Obama may finally be reaping some political benefit from the improving economy.
Remember when the wingnuts assured us that under Obama, the economy woud collapse and our 401(K)’s would all be worthless?
Today the DJI average closed at 11,980.52. In less than two years he DJIA has not only made up the losses incurred during the eight years of the Bush II administration (-27.78% of value), but it has passed the market value at the end of Clinton’s Presidency (10,587.59) and now has gained 44.67% of value.
Of course, the wingnuts will be more than ready to try to explain that this has nothing to do with Obama’s Presidency, but it’s pretty obvious that their previous predictions are ab indicator that their statements of what does, and what does not, influence the markets is utter rubbish.
GOLDY MAKES IT ON HUFF POST!!!!!!!!!!!
The Stranger gig is just the first step!
Congrats n making the realllllllly big time.
DJ @ 12
I guess the definition is, as is so often the case, the critical factor. I think what I find unfathomable is that 5-10% of the voting population who call themselves independents and who truly swing from election to election, voting liberal Democrat in one election and Tea Party in the next.
@1
what do you expect from the brainwashed crowd like goldy?
goldy hates free thinkers…they dont buy into his Joseph Goebbels act.
@7
sounds like you hang around dumbshits a lot…perhaps water seeks its own level, eh.
@11
thats because you think and act like a lemming.
no wonder you dont understand….you never will.
Winnie @ 16
Lord, we should have to pay for such amusement. Your implication that you are a free thinker nearly caused me to nearly bust a gut. You can’t take your morning dump until the Rush or Glenbo tell you it’s okay. Keep it up, Winnie, maybe you can get a stand-up gig.
@17
sounds like you hang around dumbshits a lot
No, but dumbshits find ways to hang out with him, yourself being a prime example.
I am not dependent on the party to construct a platform that hold my ideals. I am Independent.
I am Independent from the folks that embrace some platform positions I think are a waste of time, making their time, if elected, a waste of time.
I am moderate, Republicans are choosing not to be.
I have voted for a few Republicans, but not too many, and fewer as time has gone on.
No Flavor-Aid for me, thanks.
Fuck you, Goldy.
@20
pretty lame don shmoe….come up with something better and I will let you try again.
poor proud communist…he gets so confused when someone uses their brain.
you see with people like proud communist and goldy, they only see the world as D vs R or L vs R.
Goldy relies on lemmings on the left and right, so he play the loud mouth…it keeps him (semi)-employed….kinda….sorta…if you stretch the definition of employment…I guess.
Proud Communist is so bought into the L vs R paradigm that he cant see a world where people have some opinions that are progressive and some opinions that are conservative. It confuses poor Proud Communist..but what would you expect from someone who needs mommy govt to tell me how to live and what to do….
and goldy,
for someone who seemingly cant seem to make up my mind about anything, I do ok. I dont need to do “fundraisers” to pay my mortgage for a shack in the shitiest part of town…
perhaps it pays to be independent..maybe you should try it.
I dont need to do “fundraisers” to pay my mortgage for a shack in the shitiest part of town…
So. What shitty part of town do you live in, Winstontastesgood?
lol
Now, now, boys — be nice! Mr. Cynical and I are vacationing in a very warm place right now. We are enjoying the fruits of Mr. Cynical’s labors during the election season. He’s really quite good at his line of work — and earns top dollar!
Independent means: I really don’t care much for politics, frankly, I’m just not interested. Sometimes I vote, most times I don’t, too much effort and it really doesn’t matter anyway. My choices are vapid and often downright racist. I vote on the sound of the candidate’s name, how often I saw their signs along the road, my reaction to the negative ads their opponent ran on TV, and most often of all, just a general, vague feeling about them that I can’t quite put my finger on.
In short, I just don’t give a shit about either government or how our country is going to conduct itself during the next decade. I am far more interested in Dancing With The Stars and how my local professional sports franchises are doing.
Now what was your question again?
@23
pretty lame don shmoe
No. This is lame:
….come up with something better and I will let you try again.
There really are very few people so stupid as to express a thought as incoherent as demanding that someone try before you’ll let them try.
By the way, saying that someone else’s flame is lame is what people do when they can’t come up with a wittier reply. You remind me of the character in the song Evenflow: “thoughts arrive like butterflies; he don’t know, so he chases them away.”
Yeah, what a chickenshit. The black guy’s polls go up … and goatfucker cuts and runs. Just like a Republican.
” … [A] report last year by the Commonwealth Fund found that we spend twice as much as six other developed nations on health but we rank last on access, safety, coordination, efficiency and fairness, and last overall. We also lag on national policies to promote primary care, quality improvement and information technology. ‘Most troubling, the U.S. fails to achieve better health outcomes than the other countries,’ the report said. The new health law is designed to tackle some of these problems. If it survives.”
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2.....3%7C197142
Roger Rabbit Commentary: And what is the Party of No’s contribution to solving our health care deficiencies? Vote to repeal reform and return us to the status quo of the 1890s.
And here is what 30 years of Reaganism have done for average Americans:
“Wages … have stagnated for decades. The Economic Policy Institute drives the point home with numbers: Average increase in income for households in the bottom fifth of the income scale, $200 from 1979 to 2005. Average increase over the same period for those in the top .1 percent, $6 million.”
(Same link as #32.)
Two hundred fucking bucks a year. That’s the worker’s share of the vast increase in productivity over the last 32 years. The rich took the rest.
Three decades of Wingnut Wack-O-Nomics have turned our economy into an obscenity.
By the way, I made $1,000 in the stock market today. In one fucking day. That’s 5 years of wage gains for the average worker. And I didn’t even have to work for it. That’s because I’m part of the privileged Capitalist Class now. I don’t worry about what wages are because I don’t work anymore. I’m a leech. With this kind of economic rape going on, I figured it’s better to be a raper than a rapee.
I’ve made $35,000 in the stock market since Sept. 1 with less than $20,000 of capital. That’s a 175% annual return. Corporations are wallowing in cash! Oink oink! They sure aren’t giving it to workers. If you want a piece of the action you have to be a stock market parasite like me.
It’s enough to make a socialist cry.
I suppose you could argue that being an independent is the default option if you can’t stand the stupid Republicans or the spineless Democrats. After all, there isn’t a lot of difference between the parties. They’re both wholly owned subsidiaries of the corporatist elites.
@18 If you want to know what lemmings look like, check out all the Republicans who thought Saddam had WMDs.
@28 “Mr. Cynical and I are vacationing in a very warm place right now.”
Yeah, I wondered if maybe he died on us.
@39
I suppose you could argue that being an independent is the default option if you can’t stand the stupid Republicans or the spineless Democrats.
I kinda like Barry Ritholtz’, “I’m not a Democrat, because I have no idea what their economic policies are. I’m not a Republican, because I know precisely what their economic policies are.”
Winnie would appear to be our old friend Maxie. He hasn’t yet won a Golden Goat, but he sure is lobbying for the distinction.
One of the ads on the frontpage is for drugfreeworld.org, a site that spews anti-pot propaganda. Kind of ironic where they are advertising.
This is too funny. Kirby Wilbur has been Chair of the Washington State Republican Party for three days now, and their website still shows Luke Esser as Chair:
http://www.wsrp.org/Officers.aspx
45
I don’t follow internal state GOP politics. I try to steer clear of madness. I didn’t know they had chosen Wilbur over Esser. Wow. Great news.
I call myself an independent because sometimes the Democrats are too far to the right and weak on the taxes that we as citizens have a responsibility to pony up to the government in order to keep our house from falling down around our ears.
@47 The thing you have to understand about Americans is they expect everything for nothing. Don’t worry, the Republicans aren’t really going to cut spending. Not really. That, like everything else GOPers say, is hot air.
I see in one of the sidebar ads that the GOP wannabes stack up as follows:
Gingrich 33%, Palin 21%, Romney 15%, Pawlenty 12%, Paul 9%, Huckabee 5%, Bolton 3%, Other 2%.
Must be a lot of Democrats voting in that straw poll.
Bumper sticker on rear of Democrat’s car:
Run, Sarah, Run!
Bumper sticker on front of Democrat’s car:
Run, Sarah, Run!
(This is actually a recycled old wingnut joke, and if you don’t get it, have one of your conservative friends explain it to you.)
WHY ARE PEOPLE CONSTANTLY LOOKING AT POLL DATA THAT RARELY INCLUDES CELL PHONES AND THINK THAT IT CAN ACCURATELY REPRESENT A COUNTRY THAT IS INCREASING GOING PHONELESS BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO JOBS.
Really though, this has absolutely nothing to do with independents, and the change isn’t statistically meaningful. Everything for the last year has been within the margin of error, and the margin of error is extremely underrepresented. It’s also totally meaningless, because what people approve of his job today, maybe because they saw him speak about Tucson, means nothing come legislation or election times. Heck we could approve of his job 900%, he still voted for less money in social security and less taxes for rich people. I don’t understand how anyone takes him seriously, he’s just a politician, and he’s not a good one for “my team”.
If you fools cannot see what this massive debt spending is doing to retirement plans, savings and bond holders, businesses and municipalities, there is no hope for you. Ride the next bubble into the ground, just dont get sick from the see saw ride
The Canary just died in your coal mine…..
Ah, the ID iot speaks up again with shallow, insipid and totally foolish comments including name-calling and ridiculous economic preedictions.
Hey Id, you said nothing while Bush turned the largest surplus in American history into the largest deficit in US history. You said nothing while Bush took the spending for TWO wars (one completely unnecessary) off the books for the deficit. You said nothing while Bush presided over rampant speculation in the the housing and banking industry due to republican Phil Gramm’s “deregulation” that lead to the biggest economic crash since the great depresssion – and now that we are finally out of the recession with no jobs – you want to cut spending and competitiveness?
The best way to shrink the deficit is to cut defense spending, create jobs (by fixing the health care mess – not by dismantling the new law), taxing the people who can afford to pay more (the millionatires and companies who can afford to pay more and use loopholes to get out of paying their fair share) and investing in infrastructure, transportation and education (and by becoming more efficient).
Actually, retirement accounts have now recovered from the Bush hit. Businesses are making profits but not hiring much and still shipping jobs oversease – oh yeah, republicans blocked a bill to punish (remove tax breaks) their corporate sponsors who ship jobs overseas.
Yes, that is the party you support – the liars who want to get rid of health care reform and replace it with …nothing and claim it costs us when it will save 230 billion in the next ten years and 1.2 trillion after that. Republicans are LIARS. Given control of the country they damn near ruined it. Where is the republican focus on JOBS…ooops, they went after health care first and then abortion.
LIARS!
Yawn, who controlled congress and spending $$ during half of Bush’s term? Who has spent this country to the verge of financial ruin.
46 states are now under water, many near bankrupt. California is in near collapse from the powerful SEUI and guvment benefit and pension mess.
Who robbed the social security surpluses to the point of insolvency?
The Republicans. They controlled both houses of Congress for 6 years under Bush, and 6 years under Clinton. They spent nearly $90 million investigating Clinton for totally non-existant crimes. They sent their primary contributors huge no-bid contracts for “General Services” that were never really specified.
And California has had several Republican governors who have had the backing of the gigantic energy companies and used their powers of legislative influence and the propaganda machines of Wall St to support privatization of energy and water companies, and lowering of taxes to billionaires. The energy companies who were based in Texas, then used that position to create and manipulate the Election that brought in Ahnold.
Again, The Republicans, under Reagan, Bush 1 and Bush 2.
You’re just a liar dude. you’re probably one of the same folks who got paid to ruin Digg and Slashdot with this same sort of blather.
I don’t have time to find hard data but…
I think the pattern is because the voters are scared out of their minds and are like a drowning man, flailing around, grasping at anything.
They will vote for anyone or any group that will restore their sense of stability, that they are still economically prosperous, that they are safe physically and monetarily, that our kids will have a better life than they have.
It always comes down to the economy.
Where do you all see this ending?
the reason the independents are ill informed and indecisive is the Democrats have sucked for fifty years at having a:
1. program
2. message
3. agenda
4. moral narrative
5. political strategy
6. political infrastructure
and
7. staying on fucking message every day the way the GOP does.
When your team is losing it’s usually better to focus on what you control, that you can improve, rather than bemoaning fate and blaming others, in this case, the “stupidity” of independents. It’s our job to recognize that condition, deal with it and fucking win anyway and it’s a form of lazy self congratulation and fucking arrogance to blame the voters when the progressive movement fails to move them to our side.
They don’t fail in Europe, do they. Yes, they have different systems, but really, looking around the world the USA democratic party is the ONLY one purporting to be progressive that has FAILED to get national health care or single payer or a equivalent system in place.
Maybe it’s our own fault, ever think of that?
Maybe part of solving is recognizing problem?
Maybe part of it is dealing with independents and the working class voters we don’t get as if they …shouldn’t be mocked and insulted?
“Wow the voters sure are stupid” is exactly the kind of arrogance that the right rightly calls out the left on. Fit the stereotype why dontcha.
“you know, the exact same voters who can’t seem to make up their fucking minds.”
Goldy, we made up our minds a long time ago……and that’s YOU and the rightwing Republicans are fucking nuts and we won’t cater to your warped views.
While we’d much rather have a centrist government based on rational public policy theory…if the moon bats and wing nuts keep engaging in their shenanigans….we’re happy to frustrate the fuck out of you. ;)
The entire country doesn’t (nor shouldn’t) revolve around party politics. I proudly pick the best and most moderate candidate among the sea of Democrats, Republicans, and occasionally “Others”.
Thanks Goldy though for the ego boost! This blog entry charged me up to keep up my good works. ;)
Back when I still had a land line and got political survey phone calls, I always said I was an independent just to fuck with people.
Maybe the “independent voter” swings all over the place because that polling isn’t reliable?
How I vote is nobodies business, but my own.
@52 Yes, I do have a problem with the fact Republicans doubled the national debt with their prolifigate spending on an unnecessary war, $150,000-a-year Blackwater mercenaries, paying Halliburton $110 a case for Coca Cola delivered to our troops in Iraq, paying huge dollars to contractors who built showers that electrocuted our troops in Iraq, and all the other graft, corruption, waste, abuse, and fraud at taxpayer expense during the Bush years.
@55 “Who has spent this country to the verge of financial ruin.”
Well, that’s easy, Republicans did. Bush and the Republican-controlled congress. They tripled the rate of federal spending growth while borrowing $1 trillion from China to fund tax giveaways to billionaires.
During the 2000 – 2004 election cycle, Republican donors gave the GOP $4 billion in campaign donations and got back $400 billion in tax breaks. That’s a 100-to-1 return on investment. Pretty damn good investment in mathematical terms. The middle class is paying for it.
An awful lot of those tax breaks went to the bankers and financial manipulators who ran the economy into the ground.
@58 “Maybe it’s our own fault, ever think of that?”
Yes, I think about that all the time, and no, it’s not our fault the Democrats continually let us down. We don’t have anyone to vote for, either party. The ordinary people of this country have no say about anything. The system is totally owned by corporate elites and it’s going to take some kind of grassroots revolution to dislodge them. Corporations are created by publc laws, and those laws need a fundamental restructuring.
@59 Where do you find a moderate Republican these days? I haven’t seen one for a long time.
Yeah, Democrats suck, but Republicans suck infinitely worse.
Maybe this is part of the swinging mindset
@66 We have lunch at Applebee’s monthly.
You’re not invited!
….mainly because we have you as an agenda item…a small sub-bullet of this forum.
Anyone notice that Cynical hasn’t been hanging around in the comment threads lately, relentlessly flogging Rasmussen’s presidential approval poll numbers? Hmm… I wonder why?
—
Anyone notice Goldy wasn’t talking poll numbers when they were in the dumps for his guy . . . wonder why? Of course, now that his guy isn’t quite what Goldy thought he was voting for, he isn’t talking much about him!
Just a few more days and HA, just a mere two years after the progressive “earthquake,” will really be on life-support!
@55: Once again, Id (iot) you show a remarkable ability to ignore facts and miss the big picture.
If you actually understood and paid attention to government, you would realize that Bush submitted the budgets that were passed by congress and that republicans controlled the House from 2001-2006 and the speaker of the House was Denny Hastert. In addition, from 2003-2006 the Senate majority leader was Ted Stevens. So republicans were in control of congress and the white house for over four years during which the budget deficit got huge and during which the chief advisor (Karl Rove) famously and repeatedly said that that “deficits don’t matter”. Also, Bush could have VETOED any budget he did not agree with…and he did NOT. Also, from 2006-2008 the Senate majority of democrats was slim and could not prevent any vetoes.
As to states being under water….well, thank Bush, Phil Gramm and the banking/mortgage crisis (and the subsequent recession) they helped to manufacture due to deregualtion and a “hands off” policy for business.
Go ahead and yawn, that is the last refuge of someone who cannot defend their weak and simple-minded opinions. I am awaiting your reply….given that you have refuted NOTHING yet and I have refuted your entire premise.
@55
Forgot about Texas did you? They’re worse off than CA and their cuts will be more painful, since no one will even talk about raising taxes there.
@59
Money speaks and centrists vote. Thanks for supporting Corporate America!
As you know, Arizona 2nd Amendment advocates are staunchly defending the rights of their citizens to buy and sell guns of any type, and to carry, concealed or open, without permits.
They also complain about the drug-related violence on their border, and somehow think that deporting immigrants from WITHIN their borders will protect them.
Funny, isn’t it, that drug gangs in Mexico are buying their guns in – Arizona????
U.S.: Gun raids show cartels at work in Arizona: Weak laws let ‘straw buyers’ amass hundreds of assault rifles, federal officials say
Independent does not equal Centrist
It doesn’t surprise us too much, but the investigation is finally over (after having gone nowhere during the two years of the Bush administration), and it has been determined that the Bush administration violated the Hatch Act by using federal taxpayer funds to fund political activities, specifically attendence by cabinet-level appointees at Republican campaign events without seeking reimbursements from the campaigns.
But since those most culpable are already out of office, punishment in the form of dismissal is not available. The investigation settled on calling it a civil violation, not a criminal one, so no one will be prosecuted.
Although the investigation was focused on the 2006 race, the report says the practices by the Republican Political Office went back 20 years.
Can’t they at least get the GOP to reimburse the money?
Report: Bush administration broke law in ’06 races
@ 71
Forgot about Texas did you?
Oh, I think most right-wingers would like to forget about Texas, perhaps even Texans themselves. The state that soaked up the most amount of Federal funds to close up deficits? Texas.
That’s right. Texas used Federal funds to close up 97% of their budget shortfall in fiscal 2010.
@29
so in uncle twits’ world, if your are not a republican lemming or a democrat lemming, you dont vote.
hmm….interesting.
@36
rabbit..nobody gives a fuck what you made or lost on the market…in fact I doubt you have anything invested.
the point being is that your tired ass will be dead before you can spend any of it anyway.
so keep patting yourself on the back there big guy…lol
@59
well said.
Hmmm…
That tired Clinton argument… Nuts like correctnotright forgot what Krugman said on Sunday… Clinton wasn’t involved!
Bwaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Hold that thought on Clinton and his Republican Congress. We all know who brought in that small surplus! Krugman was right. Roger Dumb Rabbit told me that Krugman has the Nobel prize in economics and I don’t so Paul is always right on economic issues. When will correctnotright acknowledge Paul Krugman being right? Roger Dumb Rabbit does!
@80
Nuts like correctnotright forgot what Krugman said on Sunday…
CnR was talking about government budgets, while Krugman was talking about economic growth. Now it’s not like a proven liar like Puddy is too stupid to know this, but it is like Puddy to be too stupid to think that no one here will spot the distinction.
@80 On ignore list.
I refuse to converse anymore with stupid crazy people. I’ve wasted too much time with that bullshit.
Teh reason that “inedpendents can’t make up their minds” is not because they can’t make up their minds. It’s because the people who self-identify as “independent” changes over time, and because economic conditions usually trump ideology or platform. For example, the Democrat was very likely to win the presidency in 2008 no matter who the candidate was. Do you think Hillary CLinton would have lost? I don’t. Do you think she’d be subjected to less partisan hate from the GOP or their Tea Party (TM) rebranding? I don’t.
The GOP was very likely to gain big in Congress in 2010, again due to both economic conditions and the fact that the Democrat’s HUGE gains in 206 and 208 were unsustanable over the long term.
But for those who say “we independents reject both pratisan ideologies and want a centrist government,” welcome to your fantasy. The truth is that it will be a predomnantly Republican or Demcocatic government, and that’s how it is, and that this matters.
…2006 and 2008…
I do that a lot.