Comments

  1. 1

    notaboomer spews:

    more kids would show up to play at a park down by the river. near the vans. where they live.

  2. 2

    Deathfrogg spews:

    The GOP has repeatedly demonstrated their opposition to anything remotely resembling serving the people of United States. They have openly stated, in no uncertain terms, their desire and intention to tear down the Constitution and remove any rights held by the people under those laws.

    The GOP is the party of treason and opposition to the rule of law. Their loyalty lies to private and foreign interests. They have chosen to declare open economic warfare on the people of this country, and being such, it would be only a matter of time before they declare total warfare. They would gladly allow another act of war on the nation to further their own agenda, just as they did in September of 2001.

    The GOP has become the primary danger to the nation.

  3. 3

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Did you folks see the study that was done of ABC, NBC and CBS by a group that monitors TV content?
    There has been something like 672 mentions of Christmas in which there were only 7 mentions of God or Jesus Christ.
    Pretty ridiculous.
    Don’t want to offend anyone about the true meaning of CHRISTmas, do we.
    Why are Atheist Progressives so afraid to discuss Jesus Christ?

  4. 4

    Rujax! Exposing Cyniklown and His Dumbass Guru Chris Charlatan... spews:

    3. Mr. Cynical spews:

    Did you folks see the study that was done of ABC, NBC and CBS by a group that monitors TV content?
    There has been something like 672 mentions of Christmas in which there were only 7 mentions of God or Jesus Christ.
    Pretty ridiculous.
    Don’t want to offend anyone about the true meaning of CHRISTmas, do we.
    Why are Atheist Progressives so afraid to discuss Jesus Christ?

    12/17/2010 at 2:00 pm

    Because it doesn’t mean shit to a tree.

  5. 5

    Deathfrogg spews:

    Why are Atheist Progressives so afraid to discuss Jesus Christ?

    Because he has less importance to us than the Los Angeles phone book. Any teachings he held up have been lost to time, and his words have been altered or suppressed by the various “churches” so much over the last 2000 years as to have no relevance whatsoever, if they even still exist for philosophical study.

    What ever he actually did say, has been lost to time and more especially, politics. Modern Christmas is a commercial, corporate enterprise, and has no bearing whatsoever on its original definition.

  6. 6

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @3
    Afraid? Perhaps disinterested, but not afraid.

    I personally recoil from those that are all too ready to drop the name ‘Jesus’ while raping the planet or stealing from some child or convincing the populace who the appropriate minority is to hate this week.

  7. 8

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Watching the video, I’m struck – is Thune counting on his chin to get him elected president?

  8. 9

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Have you read this..

    So far this year, more than 90% of illegal migrants to Europe have entered through Greece, according to Frontex, the E.U.’s border-patrol agency. Until recently, Italy, France and Spain were the most popular entry points for illegal immigration into the continent

    Socialist countries are now chocking on illegal immigration. So what are we doing…encouraging it??
    Look at how pathetic Greece’s financial situation is. Spain is horrific. Italy & France are hurting. Illegal immigrants are milking these countries dry. And they are only recently trying to do something about it.

  9. 10

    Rujax! Exposing Cyniklown and His Dumbass Guru Chris Charlatan... spews:

    http://tpmlivewire.talkingpoin.....?ref=fpblg

    Breaking? Study Finds Fox News Viewers Are The Most Misinformed

    Jillian Rayfield | December 17, 2010, 9:

    To perhaps nobody’s surprise, a study released this week finds that Fox News viewers are the most misinformed of any news consumers.

    The University of Maryland study, called “Misinformation and the 2010 Election,” looked at “variations in misinformation by exposure to news sources,” among other things, and specifically newspapers and news magazines (in print and online), network TV news broadcasts, NPR and PBS, Fox News, MSNBC, and CNN.

    Who would have thought?

  10. 11

    Zotz sez: The microchip in Klynical's ass was transmitting 6... 6... 6... spews:

    I personally recoil from those that are all too ready to drop the name ‘Jesus’ while raping the planet or stealing from some child or convincing the populace who the appropriate minority is to hate this week.

    Or who fuck helpless goats.

    BTW, Lib Sci and Rujax!: please email Goldy to send me your emails as we have discussed.

    I sent him an email yesterday evening, he’ll need yours to close the loop.

    I will coordinate a meetup with the West Sound HA’ers (i.e., Proud Leftist, Steve, Michael) and Roger (if he’s available) soonest.

  11. 14

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    @4,

    Because it doesn’t mean shit to a tree.”

    Man, that’s an oldie but a goody! That line is from an old Jefferson Starship album – I think it was “Blows Against the Empire.” Are you a Sixties person, Rujax?

  12. 15

    rhp6033 spews:

    In the news this afternoon, XE Services, the re-named company which was formerly Blackwater USA, then Blackwater Worldwide, has been sold to a coalition of private investment banks. They say that the founder, Eric Prince, will have no involvement in the company, either in a management position or a holder of equity. Presumably, however, as the sole stockholder of the company he received most of the purchase price.

    As most of us know, Blackwater arose suddenly as a prime contractor during the Bush administaration, receiving very lucrative contracts to provide training and security services in Iraq and Afganistan. U.S. soldiers complained that their employees were earning triple-digit salaries to take less risks than they were taking for minimal pay. Blackwater’s notariety increased considerably when some of it’s employees were accused of killing some 17 civilians in a wild spray of bullets at an Afgan intersection, leading to the Iraqi government banning Blackwater from the country, and attempted federal prosecution of the employees.

    So I’ve always wondered – how does a company like that spring up so quickly, making billions of taxpayer dollars?

    It turns out that if you wanted to create a person who is better suited to appeal to the Bush Administration, you couldn’t pick a more likely person than Eric Pierce. He grew up in a very wealthy family in Michigan, his father founded a company which made auto parts. His sister married Richard DeVos, an heir of one of the two Amway founders (and one of the richest men in America). She was herself a chair of the Michigan Republican Party.

    Prince was appointed to the U.S. Naval Acadamy and studied there for three semesters before leaving (no reasons given). He went on to finish college elsewhere, during which time he interned in the George H.W. Bush administration and later for Calif. Republican Dana Rohrabacker. He expressed frustrations with the elder Bush’s administration, citing meetings held with homosexual groups, the budget deal with the Democrats, and the Clean Air Act. He went on to campaign for Pat Buchanan, and worked for a conservative foundation which his father co-founded.

    After graduation he joined the Navy, completed OCS, and then became a Navy Seal. (This seems a very short path to getting admittance to Seal School, based upon what I have heard). As a Seal he served in Haiti, the Middle East, and Bosnia. When his father died he resigned his commission.

    The sale of his father’s company netted 1.3 billion, after which he founded Blackwater and acquired the swampland it uses for it’s traning camp in North Carolina. A principle backer of the group and financier was Jason DeYonker. DeYonker had contacts within conservative Republican circles and the Defense Department. So when the Bush administration took office three years later, Prince and Blackwater were ideally positioned to profit from Rumsfield’s vision of an “out-sourced” war. And it received billions in goverment contracts for it’s services.

    But Prince wasn’t well suited for managing a company of this scope, he simply lacked the experience and training. And in this context, his knee-jerk ultra-right wing political views didn’t help. He insisted on micro-management and didn’t delegate well, alianating the fellow seals whom helped him found the firm. But every Blackwater employee has to sign confidentiality agreements which prevent them from talking about the company or Prince for an extended period of time after they leave the comopany. Prince was famous for avoiding having his picture taken. When Blackwater was accused of crimes or other malfeasance, his response was to immediatley deny everything and angrily blame the liberal media, only later agreeing to participate in a P.R. effort to resurect the company’s reputationj.

    Personal problems may have also played a part, he was probably distracted from business affairs as a result of his wife’s illness and death from cancer in 2003, right when the company needed a chief executive laying the groundwork for rapid expansion.

    Last year Prince gave up management control of the company and moved to Abu Dhabi, where he now resides. He says he is writing a book which will claim to tell “the whole story”, and bitterly complains that his company lost most of it’s government business because of politics, not performance. But despite the insistence by the Iraqi and Afganistan governments that Blackwater not be allowed to operate in their countries, the Obama administration has renewed $120 million in contracts to Xe for State Dept. Security services, and another 100 million for CIA contracts.

    The face behind the new owner of Xe is a familiar one – it is Jason DeYonker, Prince’s original advisor and financier of the growth of Blackwater.

    So, to answer my question, what does it take to build a multi-billion dollar defense contractor within a few years? Being a Navy Seal probably helped, as well as the discipline and leadership skills learned as part of that program. But there are quite a few Navy Seals, active and retired, who are struggling along like everyone else. It seems that at least in Prince’s case, the primary impetus is (a) inherited wealth, (b) political and business contacts, (c) political ideology which meshes with that of the current administration, and (d) luck, in that the administration’s out-sourcing plans plus plans for war with Iraq happened to fit Prince’s business specialty.

  13. 17

    Rujax! spews:

    @14…

    I saw the Jefferson Airplane at the Eagle’s Auditorium…with the light shows and everything. The song “Eskimo Blue Day” is from the Airplane album “Volunteers”.

    I never thought that Grace Slick and Paul Kantner authored the phrase “doesn’t mean shit to a tree” but I can’t find any other reference to that phrase…so maybe they did come up with something that slipped in to the lexicon.

  14. 18

    Zotz sez: The microchip in Klynical's ass was transmitting 6... 6... 6... spews:

    Rujax! and Lib Sci: Thanks for the confirmation of your emails. I’ll nag Goldy again in a day or so.

  15. 19

    Rujax! spews:

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201.....interview/

    Exclusive: US empire could collapse at any time, Pulitzer winner tells Raw Story

    America’s military and economic empire could collapse at any time, but predicting the precise day, week or month of its potential demise is unattainable, according to a former New York Times war correspondent who spoke with Raw Story.

    *snip*

    “We’ve undergone a corporate coup d’état in slow motion,” he said. “Our public education system has been gutted. Our infrastructure is corroding and collapsing. Unless we begin to physically resist, they are going to solidify neo-feudalism in this country.”

    “If we think that Obama is bad, watch the next two years because these corporate forces have turned their back on him,” Hedges warned.

    Hedges, author of “Death of the Liberal Class,” said that his vision of America is one with a functioning social democracy, which stands in stark contrast to the nihilism of the corporate state.

    “American workers, as they are repeatedly told, will have to become competitive with prison labor in China,” he said. “That’s where we’re headed, and all the pillars of the liberal establishment are complicit in this.”

    “At least if you get sick in the UK, you don’t go bankrupt or die,” he added.

    Hedges said that another pressure point is the US dollar, which he pointed out had been dropped by Russia and China in favor of modified ruble/renminbi exchanges.

    “A few more deals like that, and our currency becomes junk,” he said.

    Food for thought.

  16. 20

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ 19

    The GOP and much of the Democrat party is complicit in this. It is what they’ve been working for since the late 1960s. They’ve legalized corruption, and outlawed revealing it to the public, or subverted the media to hide it.

    The American people are the enemies of corporate interests, and will be treated as such. Cynical, Id, and Puddy, I’m sure you will welcome this new paradigm, and embrace your new corporate masters.

    It’s just Cuba in the 1950’s on a larger scale. Same companies, same people, same mafia.

  17. 22

    Right Stuff spews:

    2. Deathfrogg spews:

    The GOP has blah blah blah blah blah blah
    ………………………………….
    has become the primary danger to the nation.

    November really hurt, didn’t it….

  18. 23

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @2 It’s simple. Republicans are selfish. They want to own everything and control everyone. They want the government to do only what benefits them, and they want other people to pay for it. They want the world to kiss their asses.

  19. 24

    Michael spews:

    @9

    Thanks to the economic meltdown and extra boots on the border- placed there by the Obama Admin- Illegal immigration in America is going down. Thanks to extra enforcement of immigration laws by the Obama Admin deportations of illegal immigration is running at record rates. ;->

  20. 25

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @3 Cynical, the true meaning of Christmas is that it’s the most important shopping season of the year for America’s Republican-owned businesses, and the truth about Christmas is that no one in human history has commercialized Christmas more than America’s Republican business owners.

  21. 26

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @3 (continued) Oh yeah, almost forgot, one more thing: Nobody talks about Christianity more or practices it less than Republicans.

  22. 28

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @9 Should I remind Mr. Clown that the Bush administration opened the floodgates to a torrent of illegals because Corporate America wanted their cheap labor?

  23. 29

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ 22

    Yes, it did. It clearly illustrated the fact that the GOP is the same type of people that ran Germany, Italy, Spain and Austria during the 1930’s, and Americans are either too fucking stupid to care, or, like you and a few others in here, enthusiastically embrace the concept.

    Fascism is the same, every time it’s been tried. It always ends up being the same sort of people that want it, for the same reasons.

  24. 30

    Michael spews:

    Man, if the Democrats had any balls they’d be all over the Republicans about the first responders bills.

    This is the sort of thing you can clean the other sides clock with. But, first you have to give a shit and then you have to have the balls to act on your convictions. For me, this kind of stuff is no longer about the Republicans, it’s about the Democrats failure to go on the offense.

    How come the only talking this stuff up is Jon Stewart? Maybe because he’s the only one that gives a shit?

  25. 31

    Deathfrogg spews:

    Things the teabaggers fascists embrace, encourage, and desire for their modern version of America.

    Joe Arpaio and his methods.

    Private prisons for profit.

    Police making a show for the cameras for television entertainment. and accepting the instructions of the show’s producers while making a “bust”.

    Incarceration, isolation, and drugging of American citizens without trial.

    The top law enforcement organization using State Secrets laws to hide criminal activities.

    Banks ransacking property while the owner is in the hospital.

    Corporate takeovers of federally mandated property registrations, for the purpose of committing mortgage fraud and property theft.

    Need more? There’s a million such examples. All embraced as the new “conservative” future for America. The new corporatism. That bright shining star on the hill.

    We don’t need no steenkin Constitution. Laws are for sissies. Government is teh eeeeviiilll.

    Right blackshirts? Shave your heads. Tattoo those little swastikas and lightning bolts on your left triceps. Practice that goosestep march. Round up the liberals, faggots, artists and intellectuals. Line them up against the wall.

    You’ve already accepted everything else. Why stop now?

  26. 33

    Right Stuff spews:

    31. Deathfrogg spews:

    Things the teabaggers fascists embrace…..
    blah blah blah blah blah blah………….

    edited for stupidity….

    Here, I’ll save you all the trouble.

    You “Republicans are nazi’s”
    Me “Democrats are Communists”

    blah blah blah blah blah

    I guess there’s only a couple of us on this site who see that big money, big labor, big government have a vested interest in dividing the poplulation which allows them the seperation to raid our piggy bank (read future)

    Deathfrog, I don’t know you, but I bet if we had a “cup o joe” and talked, you’d be far less dramatic in your tone and delivery. WE are really on the same side here. We are the ones who are paying the price for all of it…
    WE the people own this, not the coporatists, laborists, governing class..

    I’m the first to admit I enjoy throwing the political ball back and forth, but c’mon.

  27. 35

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @33 It takes a lot of imagination to throw “laborists” into the same basket as “corporatists” and “governing class.”

  28. 36

    Blue John spews:

    9. Mr. Cynical spews: about illegal immigration.
    Then start putting the people who hire illegals in jail and give them hefty fines and 95% of the illegals won’t be here trying to find work.
    You put a few high profile CEOs and a couple of high profile locals from each town in jail for employing illegals and I assure you, the amount of illegals here will dry up.

    We put people who buy illegal drugs in jail, why don’t we put people hire illegals in jail also.

  29. 37

    Bluecollar Libertarian spews:

    Let’s just do away with the borders entirely from Baffin Bay to Tierra del Fuego

  30. 40

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ 33

    WE are really on the same side here. We are the ones who are paying the price for all of it…

    You might think so.

    But when I hear people like Louie Gohmert, Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Marco Rubio, Sean Hannity etc. etc. etc. Flat out make shit up and feign outrage, and spew vitriolic, sub-violent rhetoric blaming gays, liberals, scientists and Arabs, Persians, Mexicans and other brown skinned people for the shit this country is doing to itself, it only speaks for itself. When I hear those people openly talking about eliminating portions of the US Constitution, especially anything after the tenth amendment, and the fourth, and the fifth, and the 9th, I want to leave the country. simply because without those laws, this Nation does not exist.

    When I hear conservative campaigners for office, openly and vehemently criticizing and denouncing “government interference” with the Military, I see only the stupid, the violent, and the most evil people in the country. Because they have their reasons for allowing the Military to do what ever the fuck it wants with no restrictions, just as militaries do in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and most of South America. Even Iran has civilian control of its military for chrissake. You conservatives want to eliminate that here. Privatize it. Sell it off to the highest bidder, even if it was the fucking Chinese.

    There are NO liberals out there talking about nuking other nations. There are NO liberals out there blaming a minority subset of the population for the destruction of the so-called “family institution”. There is no comparable liberal out there saying the sort of incendiary, lying psychotic bullshit that is being said by the conservatives all day, every day, on virtually every goddamn TV and radio channel, especially during the last national election cycle. Such is the rhetoric of violence, of hate, and of pogrom. That is conservative politicking at its purest. Germany, Spain, Italy, Greece and Turkey and so many other nations around the world throughout history have shown what such rhetoric leads to, every single goddamn time. It is always, without exception, the same.

    There are no liberals out there calling for the extermination, disenfranchisement or oppression of minority religions or people. There are NO liberals out there, flat out lying about phony red-herring issues like the Presidents fucking birth certificate or the social effects of cannabis usage amongst people. There are no liberals calling for privatizing prisons, schools, roads, public utilities like water and electricity. Selling off water resources to soda pop companies for pretty packaging and selling at 10,000% markup from the price it would be if you just opened a tap, then restricting the publics access to that same resource, while doing everything in their power to tear down publically owned water treatment plants and defund the utility. Calling it “socialism” or worse. Openly sabotaging it, then demanding reductions in the regulations that spell out the quality of the product and the system itself.

    Prohibition is a conservative standpoint. Restriction or outright elimination of human rights, of womens rights, of civil rights are conservative positions. Banning, burning and restricting access to literature is a conservative position. Eliminating education systems is a conservative position. Dismissing actual scientific research out of hand and refusing to even look at the evidence is a conservative position. Vilifying and denouncing and destroying the careers of scientists and intellectuals is a conservative political method.

    Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Hitler, Samoza, Baptiste, Franco, Mussolini, Tojo, Bokassa, Pinochet, Marcos ad fucking nauseas infinitum, were all conservatives. Osama bin Ladin was a fucking conservative. Saddam Hussein was a conservative. The Shah of Iran, as was the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini were conservatives. Rightists. Dictators. The fact is, as compared to Khomeini, Pahlavi was pretty liberal, but he was still a right-wing butchering bastard who tortured, murdered and imprisoned tens of thousands of his own people with the full approval of, and support of, the United States government. Same with Saddam Hussein.

    There is no liberal comparison, anywhere in history, ever. It has always been liberals who have suffered the greatest under conservative forms of government. It has always been liberals who have been murdered, imprisoned, tortured, and blacklisted by conservatives throughout modern history.

    When all they did, was tell the truth. Expose the lies, and make a little progress in illustrating them to people who would otherwise not give a shit or be too terrified to think about them, much less discuss it with their friends or the schmo on the next barstool.

    Now, history is repeating itself, and what once was completely unthinkable, what once got politicians and Corporate heads put in prison, is now considered to be normal, and standard operating procedure. It has become acceptable to bribe politicians, to suppress historical facts, and to restrict citizen access to Government. It has become acceptable to butcher civilians in aggressive warfare. It has become acceptable to hand impossibly gigantic pieces of our national treasure over to private “businesses” without a bidding process, regulation, restriction or oversight. Such IS the conservative position. It always has been.

    We as a nation, have now accepted nearly every principle that we as a people claimed to oppose until just 30 years ago.

  31. 41

    spews:

    Mr. Cynical worries “Why are Atheist Progressives so afraid to discuss Jesus Christ?”

    1. That could never have been his name. “Christ” is a Greek word meaning annointed.
    If he were called any such thing it would have looked like this Y-sh-ua Ha Moschiach. Oh, by the way, if her were called THAT, the penalty under Roman Law was crucifixion …oops!

    2. Not a lot to say. You might ask God on Sunday as He (it?) posts here.

  32. 42

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    ylb @21,

    Yeah, but “Blows Against the Empire” was a Jefferson Starship album. I thought the snippet of the song was from “Blows Against the Empire,” but it was from “Volunteers,” which was recorded by Jefferson Airplane. I had the wrong album, but the group I referenced for “Blows Against the Empire” was correct.

    So “Sheesh!” yourself, asshole!

  33. 43

    Blue John spews:

    40. Deathfrogg
    Wow. Impassioned post.
    It will be interesting to see if the conservatives can comment sanely, or at all, on what you said.

  34. 45

    Blue John spews:

    The employees who were instructed to call in at the earlier time were told they could keep their jobs, but the 1,700 employees who called in at 8:30 a.m. weren’t so lucky: They were laid off by a voice on the other line that told them to stop working immediately, and had no opportunity for question or comment.

    A.R. says a representative from an outside company hired by Sanofi-Aventis to repossess materials came by almost immediately after the layoffs to take back the company car she had been driving.

    “My manager had convinced me to sell my personal car three months earlier because he said the company was in really good shape,” she said.”

    This is America’s future if we don’t change our trade policy and rules of the economy.

    Never risk. Never trust. Don’t make plans. Be extremely conservative. Never make waves. Always be paranoid. Never challenge authority. Work overtime and don’t complain. There is no safety net of any sort. Welcome to the 1930s, 21st century style.

  35. 46

    Deathfrogg spews:

    Oh, and it has become perfectly acceptable for the “police” to shoot a man in cold fucking blood and then immediately lie about it to his superiors on the scene, and to other investigators.

    Such is the conservative position. Shoot first, dont even bother to ask questions. They aren’t necessary. This was a deliberate act of murder by the Seattle Police.

  36. 47

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    @46,

    I predict the cop that shot that guy with the whittling knife will get convicted of manslaughter and do some serious time. The video of the incident is pretty damning. It’ll be hard for the defense attorney to convince the shooting was justified.

  37. 48

    ld spews:

    13,869 Trillion

    If all US citizens were taxed at 100% these idiots would still have to print borrowed worthless money to even pay the interest?

    Talk about BROKE!

  38. 49

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    33, 40 — It’s an old conservative trick, trying to say “we” screwed up the country, after they screw up the country.

  39. 50

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @40 (continued) They tried to play this game in the aftermath of the financial meltdown, too, claiming “we’re all responsible.” No, all of us are not responsible. Those of us who lived within our means, bought no more than we could pay for, made all our payments, etc., were NOT responsible for the meltdown. There are millions of rabbits in this country who watched in disbelief as Republicans removed all the rules and restraints and allowed the dismantling of the economy in the name of free-market ideology. That will go down in history as one of the worst social experiments of all time.

  40. 51

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @48 “If all US citizens were taxed at 100% these idiots would still have to print borrowed worthless money to even pay the interest?”

    This assertion is utterly false. Before you call people “idiots” get your facts straight! Interest payments on federal debt were $189 billion in 2009, slightly more than 1% of GDP, and far far less than existing tax collections. And let’s not forget that it was Republicans who ran up that debt, much of it to pay for tax cuts for millionaires.

  41. 52

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    While you all are screaming and shouting over the small things like some rich person getting to keep his money… we now learn that Janet El-Reno, Louis Freeh and Slick Willy Clinton may have had the “FBI Added Secret Backdoors to OpenBSD IPSEC” So if this is true, this makes y’all leftist pinheads screaming over the patriot act just a bunch of hot air! This would have been conceived and implemented during slick willie’s reign in da whitey house!

  42. 53

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ Spuddy

    The FBI has done whatever the fuck it wanted to for 70 years. It does not answer to or take orders from any elected body. We liberal folk have been complaining about that since the end of WW2.

    It is an extremely conservative organization.

  43. 54

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Ya know all this tax cut smoke and mirrors the Congressional DUMBOCRAPTS placed in their slobbering MSM friends finally got some truth to it. So since Roger is throwing around “facts” let’s deliver some real facts…

    Bush tax cuts: $544.3 billion. The package would extend the Bush tax cuts for everyone for two years.

    The bulk of that cost — $463 billion — is for the extension of cuts for families making less than $250,000, including two years of relief for 2010 and 2011 for the middle class from the Alternative Minimum Tax.

    The rest — $81.5 billion — is attributable to the extension of cuts that apply to the highest income families.

    The cost of extending all the tax cuts over 10 years would have been $3.7 trillion.

    So where is this “$700 Billion or $900 Billion” lying number being thrown around on this blog come from? DUMBOCRAPTIC mathematics.

    $81.5 over 2 years is $407.5 Billion. But that number is too small so DUMBOCRAPTS inflate everything and the MSM went along until CNN Money broke the trend.

    But, let’s look at the other tax facts Read all about the myths DUMBOCRAPTS love to purvey!

  44. 55

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Oh, hey Puddy!!

    Just to understand your grasp and analysis of complex systems like the one you comment on here, would you explain how the universe is only 6000 years old?

    Why does it look like light has traveled millions of years from Andromeda and more distant galaxies?

    Where did the cosmic microwave background come from if not the hydrogen plasma of the Big Bang 14 billion years ago?

    How did those Emperor Penguins get from and back to Antarctica for their ride on the ark?

    Why is there no genetic evidence for a large-scale near extinction event 4000 years ago in any animal genome?

    You have previously stated that there were no Tyranosaurs on the Ark – so were they already extinct? Why do their fossils appear tens of millions of years old? How does that work?

    Thanks Puddy. When I hear your answers to these, I’ll think about giving some credence to your other comments.

  45. 56

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @40
    Wow.
    Exactly fucking right.

    One thing your post points out is that the terms “left” and “right” are misleadingly applied to Republicans and Democrats as they presently behave. As you correctly point out, dictators are essentially “right,” whatever labels we apply – fascist or communist or religious or simply plutocrat. They’re out for personal power, money being a frequent subset of that.

    What they have in common is a quest for power and the ability to suspend any ethics or morals to achieve that (if they had them at all). It’s the same sociopathic behavior seen in all organizations – there are people willing to lie and manipulate and sow fear and distrust and uncertainty among the people around them in order to advance themselves.

    Writ larger, on a government or national scale, it involves the suspension of rights of assembly, due process, free speech. It involves silencing any opposition that poses real threat (though having an inert “opposition” that poses as a real opposition is quite useful politically). While fascism is a difficult thing to objectively define, its analysis here is helpful.

    I think our discourse gets hamstrung by the limitations of the labels we’re using (which is desirable from the point of view of people in power). I think the posters here from the left have a (strong) tendency to vote for and support Democrats, particularly in their more traditional, pro-labor, pro-civil rights, pro-egalitarian iteration or idea. Moreover, I think that the problems I have with Democrats lately, and I think others here share this critique, is that Democrats are no longer consistently hewing to our liberal ideals and expectations. I think our critique of our nation’s present circumstance is limited by labels “Democrat” and Republican” as the Overton window is pulled further rightward and we have things like Nixon’s health care plan being derided from the right as “socialist”. I think that the power behind the present fascism/corporatism/plutonomy has effectively captured the Republicans, and has substantially captured the Democrats as well, though there are still some independent voices from that faction that we here tend to cheer on.

    What we have presently in the USA is a steady march toward corporatism and plutocracy. While past fascist movements had nationalist and imperialist motivations, I think the present iteration evolving in this country is shaped by the transnational properties of money, and therefore personal and class financial aggrandizement is a primary motivator. I think patriotism is presently a useful tool for motivating and controlling the masses rather than a central tenet of the core movement itself. Just as the Nazis used hatred of Jews as an organizing principle, I think hatred of Muslims, and Mexican immigrants, and brown people in general, and homosexuals and liberals and unionists and women, much like in traditional fascism, these groups are painted as traitors and enemies of the nation, and serve as objects to fear and hate. Layer on top of this fear for personal financial and employment security, fear for your very home – and you have a very malleable and compliant populace.

    What is different this time, with our present proto-fascism, is that the allegiances of the people holding actual power is not defined by national boundaries. Personal wealth for some, and the immense and powerful nature of corporations, allows them to advocate for themselves alone, independent of the nation that they are nominally attached to. What we who are motivated for a better world for people, as in all or as many as possible, need to do is to better control the discourse, to articulate a vision independent of the present sclerotic politics, to advocate for a nation that is people-centered in the broadest possible sense. We need to get the Teahaddist fools to start acting in their own interests, to get the people disinterested or cynical or too busy working three jobs to spare the time for community involvement, to get all of us not in the top 0.5% to realize that we’re all in the same boat, and start bailing together – then we can accomplish something.

    Unfortunately, there are many many fools like Cynical and Id and Puddy who think that they’re on the winning team when advocating for the politics of social-darwinism, who think that the likes of the Koch brothers are going to take care of them with crumbs from their tables, who think their rural bunkers are going to hold back either the hog farm spills or the forest fires or the hungry hordes when the whole Ponzi scheme collapses.

  46. 57

    Right Stuff spews:

    @40, 50 56 etc

    Well there you have it. Guess that wraps it up.
    You are all victims of the evil “vast right wing conspiracy”….Sad actually.

    By your own definitioins of “evil conservatives” John F Kennedy is a facist…Nice.

    In fact, you all are the other polar extreme to the Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity far right. You are every bit the problem as they are..
    Good job.
    In the end, everybody loses.

  47. 58

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @57

    In fact, you all are the other polar extreme to the Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity far right. You are every bit the problem as they are..

    Because I said this:

    What we who are motivated for a better world for people, as in all or as many as possible, need to do is to better control the discourse, to articulate a vision independent of the present sclerotic politics, to advocate for a nation that is people-centered in the broadest possible sense.

    and this

    to get all of us not in the top 0.5% to realize that we’re all in the same boat

    How do you get there?
    I’m arguing against a fraction of the populace owning everything and I’m the counterpart to Limbaugh?
    I often find your comments, RS, thought-provoking and rational, but I just don’t see how you got there.

  48. 59

    Right Stuff spews:

    Sorry LS.
    I guess I just started to skim your comments after this.

    @40
    Wow.
    Exactly fucking right

    In fact much of what you wrote is agreeble to me.

  49. 60

    Steve spews:

    @1 “Why are Atheist Progressives so afraid to discuss Jesus Christ?”

    The more interesting question would be, why are you afraid to discuss Jesus Christ? You’re the self-professed Christian here. You’re the one who repeatedly tells us that you’re going to heaven whereas others will not. You have posted plenty of Old Testament verse used disparagingly against your political foes, be they of your faith or not. You brandish Christianity in a childish game of one-upmanship. You appear wear your faith as some cheap, made-in-China flag pin. And yet you never discuss the words and teachings of Christ. You never tell us how Crist has touched you own life. Why are you afraid to discuss Jesus Christ?

  50. 61

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    @53 – Deathfrog said about the FBI:

    “It is an extremely conservative organization.”

    That’s the curious thing about the FBI. It was and is a conservative organization, but the guy who headed the bureau for decades was a screaming queen who was fond of gambling. Old J. Edgar liked to dress-up in women’s clothes, never married, and was “very close” to another male in the FBI! He even went on vacations with his “buddy” from the bureau.

    The FBI guys may pretend to be hot shit, but they’re “descendants” of a guy who was a flamin’ nancy-boy! Bet that sticks in their craw!!

    As the rodent would say:

    HAR, HAR, HAR, HAR, HAR, HAR, HAR!!!

  51. 62

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Another example of just how F’d up the ImamObaMao Regime is–

    At an all-day White House conference on “environmental justice,” Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano announced that her department is creating a new task force to battle the effects of climate change on domestic security operations.

    WTF!
    She hasn’t done jack to protect the borders.
    Now she is focusing on “climate change”??
    God help us

  52. 63

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    ImamObaMao has been languishing in a narrow Strong Approval range.
    Saturday, December 18, 2010

    The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Saturday shows that 25% of the nation’s voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty-two percent (42%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -17.
    Sixty-three percent (63%) of voters believe that American society is generally fair and decent. Only 35% think President Obama shares that view

    The last point is stunning..
    Only 35% think Obama believes American Society is fair & decent.

  53. 64

    Blue John spews:

    Cyn, are you fighting to have employers of illegals put in jail? If they don’t have income, most won’t come here.

  54. 65

    Blue John spews:

    Here’s an interesting question. Is it better to have social issues get solved, or economic issues? If they actually repeal DADT, so openly gay soldiers can get shot, but fail to reform the economy, is that enough, or should we still try to get the current dems replaced with better dems?

  55. 66

    Dr. Zaius spews:

    the economy is far more important…DADT is an irrelevant issue to the nation in general, with only two extremes even giving a fuck about it.

  56. 67

    Blue John spews:

    Yeah, I agree. The dems tinker on the edges but are not dealing with the fundamental issues.
    I think it’s great that don’t ask, dont tell is getting repealed but it’s not the same league as the Republican tax give away they just passed.
    The ship is sinking!
    Yeah, but give me credit for re arranging the deck chairs.

  57. 68

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    That’s the curious thing about the FBI. It was and is a conservative organization, but the guy who headed the bureau for decades was a screaming queen who was fond of gambling.

    Why is that at all “curious”?
    JEH was a total closet case and that is a very effective way of ending up with a very twisted psyche. Not at all surprising that he would ruthlessly acquire power and wield it oppressing people.

  58. 72

    spews:

    69 – Sheesh. How did that ever happen in this day and age???

    Openly gay service men and women in our military. To the typical nutball teahadist that can only mean one thing: Armageddon, the rapture, what have you..

    Well I for one am glad that one is past this country.

    Now if we could only get over some strange hangup about billionaires paying the same taxes they did under Bill Clinton while the poor and middle class who have haven’t had a raise in 30 years keep theirs….

  59. 73

    Michael spews:

    @62

    WTF!
    She hasn’t done jack to protect the borders.

    Sure, if record levels of deportations, adding to the border patrol, and increasing enforcement of immigration labor laws, is doing nothing, then she’s done nothing.

  60. 74

    Michael spews:

    @60

    I’m an atheist, I don’t go around talking up baby jesus because I couldn’t care less. I wonder if Cyn goes around talking up crap he doesn’t care about?

  61. 75

    MikeBoyScout spews:

    @ 62. Mr. Cynical on 12/18/2010 at 10:19 am

    WTF!
    She [HSS, Janet Napolitano] hasn’t done jack to protect the borders.

    Don’t despair. The extension of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy will continue to keep the economy in the ditch and continue to remove any economic benefit of immigrating here. Heck, you may even find you need to cross the border to Canada to live Cyn.

  62. 76

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Oh Libbbbbbbb Scientist…

    Puddy doesn’t do your bidding or care what you think. It must be those economic facts are too tough for your tiny mental digestion. Must be the numbers are more correct than you would like them to be!

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  63. 77

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @76
    Avoiding the question again, I see, Puddster.

    This isn’t the first time I’ve asked those questions for the same purpose – are you in the same fact-based reality with the rest of us or not? You usually run away and abandon the thread when I ask – I suppose this is progress.

    Pud, I’ve argued with you before, and the last time I attempted to respond to you on the “merits” of your “argument” (such as it was), THE VERY FIRST link of your that I looked at HAD NOTHING IN IT THAT SUPPORTED YOUR POINT.

    Therefore, before wasting any more time with you, and based on other statements you’ve made, I want to know about your belief in science and critical analysis of data and your grasp of basic fact about the world we all share, facts that are in no way in dispute by reputable, serious scientists.

    Come on Pud, how old is the universe?

  64. 78

    Dr. Zaius spews:

    who the fuck cares? believe what you want to be believe and move on….

    sounds like WHOLE LOTTA PEOPLE here are insecure….and I mean people on both sides of the spectrum.

  65. 79

    spews:

    LS @ 77

    Puddybud has already answered the question about the age of the earth. He’s given two different answers AFAIK but he’s more or less settled on 6000 years.

    That’s what he believes based on his or his sect’s reading of the Bible.

    He’s also said all this, the ultimate truth of things, will be settled when “Jesus comes again”.

    There’s really no more to be said on the subject. That’s what he believes and that’s that. We who revere and respect the scientific method and all the enlightenment has brought to the world believe something else.

    As long as his kind doesn’t screw up matters much it doesn’t matter all that much. But as it happens they are and we have to deal with it somehow. Such is life.

  66. 80

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    ylb, you’ll be shocked and amazed. Jesus has a special “prize” waiting for you! Read 1 Thessalonians.

  67. 81

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Lib Scientist,

    Puddy said God did it. Puddy don’t know or care how God did it. Got it?

  68. 82

    Blue John spews:

    Puddy, if you believe in Jesus and what he teaches, why are you a conservative?
    Jesus was a liberal and a progressive.

  69. 83

    spews:

    80 – Yawn. I read it and wasn’t impressed. Not a big fan of Saul of Tarsus myself.

    I can see how your silly head would swell at a reading of 1 Thesselonians 5:1-11.

    You’ve already told me I’m going to hell Puddybud.

    As long as you’re not there – I have no issue with it.

  70. 84

    Steve spews:

    KLOWN sez, “There has been something like 672 mentions of Christmas in which there were only 7 mentions of God or Jesus Christ.
    Pretty ridiculous.”

    Any mention of Christmas sales is offensive to the KLOWN unless the newscasters express their love for the little baby Jesus.

    Puddy sez, “you’ll be shocked and amazed. Jesus has a special “prize” waiting for you”

    At least Puddy will discuss his relationship with Christ. Unfortunately, it’s little more than a childish variation of, “Just wait till Daddy gets home! You’re gonna get it!”

  71. 85

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Puddy, if you believe in Jesus and what he teaches, why are you a conservative?
    Jesus was a liberal and a progressive.

    Where Blue John? Since you are an atheist how can you claim that?

  72. 86

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Stupid Solution Steve,

    Jesus is our brother and God is our Father. So in a sense you are right!

  73. 87

    Steve spews:

    KLOWN sez, “Did you folks see the study that was done of ABC, NBC and CBS by a group that monitors TV content?
    There has been something like 672 mentions of Christmas in which there were only 7 mentions of God or Jesus Christ.
    Pretty ridiculous.”

    I wondered about the lack of a link in the KLOWN’s comment @3. So I did a Google search for “672 abc, nbc, cbs Christmas only 7″. I found nothing. Well, except for the KLOWN’s comment here at HA. It was at the top of the first page. heh- So, to answer the KLOWN’s question, no, I don’t think anybody saw that study.

  74. 89

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Stupid Solution Steve,

    Cynical got his numbers mixed up. It was 527 stories. Puddy delivers the link!

  75. 90

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    That’s right Stupid Solution Steve, you finally agree with Puddy you are childish!

  76. 91

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Puddy don’t know or care how God did it.

    Sorry to everyone if you find this tedious, but I think it’s revealing and important.

    Puddy posts here pretending to argue politics, and one of his particular affectations is to post “facts” and (alleged) links to facts.

    My point about biblical literalism (that some find belabored) is that Pudster denies basic, manifest facts about our world. For example, there is simply no way that the earth is 6000 years old. There is simply no way that some Bronze Age Middle Eastern nomad built some vessel that carried two of everything to keep terrestrial animal lineages alive during some (mythical) global deluge. There is simply no way that Emperor Penguins were transported to said vessel for that excursion.

    My point is that there is no point in discussing any serious topics with someone so deeply down their theologic rabbit hole that they deny basic facts about our world. And it’s not even an academic connection – that their loony creation myth indicts more globally the quality of their thinking and analysis. No, one of the most pressing and potentially catastrophic problems we face is global warming – but that is a non-issue to such raving fundamentalists because “God gave dominion over the earth to man” or the earth is ending soon anyway and Pud is being called home in the Rapture or some other such magical-thinking nonsense.

    I don’t think we can put aside these raving delusions and take other things he (or others of his ilk) have to say with any seriousness. My point in examining his biblical literalism is to point out his capacity to suspend critical thinking and embrace credulity to the point as to believe literally fantastic stories that have absolutely no possibility of being factual. Therefore, his commentary and analysis and argument on any topic is impeached. He simply cannot be taken seriously about anything if he really believes the earth is 6000 years old and Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs around Eden before the Flood.

    We as a nation and as a species are facing very very difficult challenges on many fronts. I think the motivation of many here is to build community in part to respond to those challenges with creativity and critical thinking and hard problem solving. I just don’t think that someone accepting such literally ridiculous nonsense has much place in such a discussion, particularly given his contributions of taunting and raving and linking to things having no value in making his alleged points.

  77. 92

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Oh, and it has become perfectly acceptable for the “police” to shoot a man in cold fucking blood and then immediately lie about it to his superiors on the scene, and to other investigators.

    Such is the conservative position.

    The most moronic comment of the day, more moronic that the everage ylb comment.

    Wait a minute… that was from DeadToad. Puddy takes that back. Is par for the course from DeadToad! He’s moronic everyday!

    Seattle is libtardoland. It’s the progressive way. Do one thing then say something completely opposite. Look at who they vote for in Congress, the state legislature, and state senate. From the Mayor and his lieutenants to the dog catcher it’s libtardo each day.

  78. 93

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Apparently from the long winded diatribe above:

    Apparently Lib Scientist knows how God shut the Lions in the den when Daniel landed.

    Apparently Lib Scientist knows how God through the stars in Orion’s Belt.

    Apparently Lib Scientist knows how God created the leviathan.

    Apparently Lib Scientist knows how God created the Sun.

    Apparently Lib Scientist knows how God created the heavens and the earth.

    Puddy doesn’t know how God did all these things. But someday if Puddy is found worthy, Puddy will ask God how did He do it.

    But to the Lib Scientist, Puddy is the “raving lunatic” because Puddy believes in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Soon enough Lib Scientist will learn who is the raving lunatic when Jesus appears in an exceptionally bright cloud to claim His believers. And when Jesus comes, Lib Scientist will cry out Puddy was right!

    Stay ridiculous Lib Scientist. You’ve mastered it.

  79. 94

    Steve spews:

    Interesting video. About as insipid as you and the KLOWN. They held up as Godless and Jesusless examples three weather reports, three reports on a Christmas day bombing plot and a report on snowblowers. My Lord!! They failed to report on Jesus and GOD??? How dare they!!

    The Culture and Media Institute? Good grief! How about they tell us how many Christmas weather, bombing plot and snowblower reports out of Fox News failed to mention God and Jesus? heh- Biased much?

    What bullshit, Puddy. How weak and pathetic of you.

  80. 95

    Rujax! Reminding Puddy That a Black Person Voting Republican is Like a Chicken Voting for Col. Sanders Since 2004 spews:

    @93…

    Superstitious claptwaddle.

  81. 96

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Reminding Puddy That a Black Person Voting Republican is Like a Chicken Voting for Col. Sanders Since 2004 spews:

    Puddy is sure Allen West disagrees with the dumb cinder block! Wasn’t Allen West in the military? Was the dumb cinder block?

  82. 97

    Rujax! Reminding Puddy That a Black Person Voting Republican is Like a Chicken Voting for Col. Sanders Since 2004 spews:

    @93…

    Colonel Sander’s favorite chicken can believe whatever the fuck he wants.

    I just don’t know why he and his religionist pals feel the need to jam it down everybody else’s throat.

  83. 98

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    who the fuck cares? believe what you want to be believe and move on….

    As long as his kind doesn’t screw up matters much it doesn’t matter all that much.

    My point is that is does matter. Basing life decisions and political and social decisions on myth is insanity. We don’t have time for that. The stakes are too high for, “Oh, he just believes that, we’ll just dance around it, it’s his right.”

    One could believe that the Underpants Gnomes have developed nuclear fusion using marshmallow Peeps and Geritol in a secret underground cave beneath Buenos Aires. Therefore we must invade Argentina and capture this technology before the Freemasons get there first. That would be just as logical as listening to a Young Earth Creationist about anything. It’s the same damn thing.

    And it’s fucking insane.

  84. 99

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Apparently Lib Scientist knows how God shut the Lions in the den when Daniel landed.

    Apparently Lib Scientist knows how God through the stars in Orion’s Belt.

    Apparently Lib Scientist knows how God created the leviathan.

    Apparently Lib Scientist knows how God created the Sun.

    Apparently Lib Scientist knows how God created the heavens and the earth.

    Puddy doesn’t know how God did all these things. But someday if Puddy is found worthy, Puddy will ask God how did He do it.

    Pudster, you make my points for me! Now what were you saying about tax policy?

  85. 100

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Puddy is sure Allen West…

    Now that’s a keeper!
    I think Allen West, and by extension Pudster, are going to be ongoing and rich sources of hilarity throughout the next Congress. Pass the popcorn…

  86. 101

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Poor Stupid Solution Steve,

    The whole point of the 1:18 video was to demonstrate the networks can discuss all other things at Christmas except the meaning for the season, Jesus Christ leaving Heaven to come to earth and eventually die for all our sins. If you can remember anything Stupid Solution Steve, back in 2008 78.4% of Americans claimed to be Christian. The other 21.6% hang out here on HA!

    Of course drinking the Stupid Solution makes you as dense as a brick!

    Sucks to be you Stupid Solution Steve!

  87. 102

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    No Lib Scientist, you don’t get it. Puddy was mocking you without any sarcasm. This is why you are so thick on religious things on this blog.

  88. 103

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    I just don’t know why he and his religionist pals feel the need to jam it down everybody else’s throat.

    Just like you and your foolish morons want to jam gay this and gay that down our throats!

  89. 104

    Steve spews:

    “Puddy delivers the link!”

    No, Puddy delivers “teh stupid”.

    “Sorry to everyone if you find this tedious, but I think it’s revealing and important.”

    For me it’s not tedious at all. Somebody’s gotta do it and who better than a scientist?

    Say, Puddy, look up at the Andromeda galaxy in a dark sky night. Do you see that little smudge of light? For me, it’s a marvel. For you, it’s a threat. Sad, how your God grows increasingly smaller with each of the 2,500,000 years that it takes a photon to travel from the Andromeda galaxy to your eyeballs.

  90. 105

    Blue John spews:

    Since you are an atheist how can you claim that?
    Why would you think that? If people don’t agree with your version of god, they are automatically an atheist.
    I was raised christian, spending time in Episcopal, seventh day Adventist and free Methodist churches. I’m currently agnostic, because since I’m gay, why would I want to belong to a church that didn’t think I should exist.

    Jesus was the ultimate liberal progressive revolutionary of all history. The conservative religious and social structure that He defied hated and crucified Him. They examined His life and did not like what they saw. He aligned Himself with the poor and the oppressed. He challenged the religious orthodoxy of His day. He advocated pacifism and loving our enemies. He liberated women and minorities from oppression. He healed on the Sabbath and forgave adulterers and prostitutes. He associated with drunks and other social outcasts. He rebuked the religious right of His day because they embraced the letter of the law instead of the Spirit. He loved sinners and called them to Himself. Jesus was the original Liberal. He was a progressive, and He was judged and hated for it. It was the self-righteous religionists that He rebuked and He called them hypocrites.

    .

    Why is Jesus a Liberal?
    Webster’s dictionary defines a Liberal as one who is open minded, not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional or established forms or ways. Jesus was a pluralist Liberal who taught that one need not conform to strict and orthodox views of God, religion, and life. He rejected greed, violence, the glorification of power, the amassing of wealth without social balance, and the personal judging of others, their lifestyles and beliefs.

    The Death Penalty: Thou shalt not kill [Matthew 5:21]

    Crime and Punishment: If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone at her. [John 8:7] Do not judge, lest you too be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. [Matthew 7:1 & 2.]

    Corporate Greed and the Religion of Wealth: In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. [John 2:14 & 15.] Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. [Luke 12.15.] Truly, I say unto you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 19:23] You cannot serve both God and Money. [Matthew 6:24.]

    Paying Taxes & Separation of Church & State: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s. [Matthew 22:21]

  91. 106

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Now Stupid Solution Steve delivers the stupid

    Say, Puddy, look up at the Andromeda galaxy in a dark sky night. Do you see that little smudge of light? For me, it’s a marvel. For you, it’s a threat. Sad, how your God grows increasingly smaller with each of the 2,500,000 years that it takes a photon to travel from the Andromeda galaxy to your eyeballs.

    A threat. God’s creation a threat? God created it Stupid Solution Steve. God made the heavens and the earth Stupid Solution Steve. None of you liberals can fathom that!

    You liberals claim: “It’s a fantasy. It’s a big lie.” Not to Puddy! And when you find out you’re not right Stupid Solution Steve, where do you go next?

  92. 107

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Oh blue john… copying without attribution? Let’s see if the thread police appear!

  93. 108

    Steve spews:

    “The whole point of the 1:18 video”

    It’s weather, travel and snowblower noise news reports, Puddy. News! Do you get it? If Jesus shows up on a storm cloud or riding a snow blower, I’m sure that on the ABC, NBC or CBS News weather segments they’ll they’ll make some mention of it. Perhaps the Fox News weather segment will report on it as well.

    Speaking of Fox News, nice dodge by you on the fact that Fox News doesn’t mention Jesus in their Christmas weather, travel and snowblower reports either. Like I asked before, is the Culture and Media Institute biased much? Yes, they are. Just like you.

  94. 110

    Steve spews:

    “God made the heavens and the earth”

    Well, that explains everything.

    Once again, Puddy delivers “teh stupid”.

  95. 111

    Blue John spews:

    Here are your links.
    http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1019-24.htm
    http://www.jesusisaliberal.org/

    Oddly enough, “Jesus was a conservative” is not a common phrase in the internet.

    (Your side seemed weak, so I thought I’d help you.)
    However for every theme on the internet there is an opposite theme, if you look

    The assertion that Jesus was a socialist is misguided and incorrect because the premise is grounded in the liberal ideology of American politics, not in biblical exegesis. Not one place in the bible did Jesus advocate it was the function of government to do what loving human beings ought to do on their own. As noted above, conservatives are not opposed to social programs. We shed our blood, donate our time, apply our labor, and voluntarily redistribute our income to the poor. And quite frankly, research shows we are better at it than liberals. Jesus was a conservative because he promoted charitable giving on behalf of individuals, not government. Jesus was a conservative because he promoted the hard work and success of the individual, not the legislative body of the government. Jesus was a conservative he saw giving as a ministry of the gospel, not a secular and spiritless exercise of government in order to level the economic playing field. Liberals may claim Jesus as their own, but Jesus would not claim them as his own. It takes a lot more to give from your personal resources than it does to compel others to give through taxation.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/fo.....8938/posts

    He cannot cite bible verse like the pro liberals but he can twist the teaching to fit his agenda.
    How come the bible is literal, until it doesn’t fit the conservative agenda and then it needs to be interpreted?

  96. 112

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Dodge Steve? Fox News delivers Jesus many more times than ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN etc combined!

  97. 113

    Steve spews:

    Well, at least the journey of photons from the Orion nebula fits within your 6,000 year time frame for creation. You’ve at least got that going for you, if nothing else.

  98. 114

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Wow, lots to respond to here – gotta do it later – gotta go out for dinner with the family…

  99. 115

    Steve spews:

    “Dodge Steve? Fox News delivers Jesus many more times than ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN etc combined!”

    @111 On the Fox News weather reports? They talk about Jesus? Sure thing, Puddy, whatever you say.

    I see that you offered no link to the Culture and Media Institute for that one. Geez, I wonder why? Could it be that they couldn’t pull that one out of their ass?

  100. 117

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Well, at least the journey of photons from the Orion nebula fits within your 6,000 year time frame for creation. You’ve at least got that going for you, if nothing else.

    Where did Puddy claim the Heavens were 6000 years old? The Heavens and the Earth have meanings. 2 Corin 12 talks about the third heaven. Have you ever read that Stupid Solution Steve?

  101. 118

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Poor Stupid Solution Steve. It’s for you to prove Fox News DOESN’T talk about Jesus. You made the accusation above so prove they don’t.

    We’ll wait Stupid Solution Steve. Make an ASS out of yourself for the 100,000,000th time.

  102. 119

    Steve spews:

    Puddy wants Jesus in our government. He just doesn’t want our government to share the values conveyed in his teachings. Odd, that.

  103. 120

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Puddy wants Jesus in our government.

    Ahhh yes, the ylb deflection move. Where did Puddy say this anywhere on HA!

  104. 121

    Steve spews:

    So God created the third heaven or whatever some 13.7 billion years ago? But the earth was created only 6,000 years ago? And your proof of this is what? And what was God doing all that time in between these creations? Jacking off or something?

    Keep making a fool of yourself. It’s sad, but I get a kick out of it.

  105. 122

    Steve spews:

    “It’s for you to prove Fox News DOESN’T talk about Jesus.”

    Let me see if I follow this. You pull a ridiculous Puddyfact from your ass. And it’ll stand as fact until proven otherwise?

    “Where did Puddy say this anywhere on HA!”

    Geez, Puddy, don’t you know that it’s true until you prove otherwise?

    Please continue delivering “teh stupid”. It’s quite amusing.

  106. 123

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    So God created the third heaven or whatever some 13.7 billion years ago? But the earth was created only 6,000 years ago? And your proof of this is what? And what was God doing all that time in between these creations? Jacking off or something?

    Where did Stupid Solution Steve get 13.7 Billion years from? God need to what Stupid Solution Steve? Maybe you need to discuss God with proud leftist. His daddy can clue you in!

  107. 124

    Steve spews:

    “Wow, lots to respond to here – gotta do it later”

    I’m just an engineer and an amatuer astronomer, but I’ll do my best to cover for you until you return.

  108. 125

    Steve spews:

    You know, I was just thinking, Puddy, that if you were to slink away, your humiliation here would come to an end. All you have to do is leave. Oh, and please take the KLOWN with you, seeing as how he hasn’t any sense either.

  109. 126

    Steve spews:

    Being as how I’m a good Christian, Puddy, I love you like a brother. But I’ve gotta tell you, my friend, that you’re really stupid. So sad.

  110. 127

    Blue John spews:

    And Puddy, for the reason I gave, I have faith that Jesus would be a liberal and a progressive. He was about about Love, not Money. He wouldn’t support MUCH of the conservative agenda.

  111. 129

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Still waiting for blue john to post the “link”.

    Stupid Solution Steve… Puddy doesn’t need to slink away from no one. You included. You demonstrate vividly your religious stupidity all the time. Real Bible reading people know about 2 Corin 12. Apparently for a “Christian” you are a “christian”.

  112. 130

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Just like you and your foolish morons want to jam gay this and gay that down our throats!

    Wow – one couldn’t write parody this good.
    Between Cynical on the ‘Central Park’ thread going on and on about anuses and now you yammering on about gay things crammed down your throat, one cannot but wonder if the entirety of the Republican party is just a conclave of closet cases. It’s a pity – come on out, it gets better.

  113. 131

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    So Steve – you’re an amateur astronomer? Totally cool. What kind of scope do you use? You said you were on the west side of the sound – dark skies over there?

  114. 132

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Jesus was a conservative because he promoted charitable giving on behalf of individuals, not government.

    You know, conservatives always get back to this – that somehow charity by individuals is somehow superior to systematic or large-scale acts by government. I’m not sure of the logic, but it seems they’re implying that liberals abdicate their responsibility and allow this ‘other’ called government to do it for them.

    But this is part of the ‘BIG LIE’ of conservatism – that government is something other or apart, something not of us, but imposed on us.

    Government is US! It’s how we organize ourselves and express and execute our vision as a nation. It is the collective activity of ourselves as a society and as a nation. That is, until it is hijacked by those with the money who would have us descend into neo-feudal plutocracy and shatter the democratic experiment that really is the basis of any American exceptionalism, if there is any.

    When we organize ourselves and act collectively, tremendous leverage and economies of scale can be realized, and thus we acting together through government can so so much more than the aggregate of individual actions. So much can be accomplished in this way – and that is precisely what scares the likes of Cynical and Puddy and Id and the rest of them, and leads them to despise and slander government.

    It is essential to the neo-feudalists that government be de-legitimized, that it be despised and ridiculed and made foreign to as many as possible. It is precisely because assent of the governed, participation in government, is distributed (in theory) evenly, one person, one vote. This scares the hell out of the plutocrats and is the basis for the attack on government starting back with Reagan (of course). It’s the basis for resistance to voting rights, motor-voter, ACORN, the basis of the non-existent but perennial ‘voter fraud’ hysteria on the right; it’s the basis of Citizens United – they absolutely need money to be speech because they have all the money, and want to have all the say.

    They are afraid of government that works, that provides a safety net (they like to call it charity, but it’s in fact all of us working together to protect all of our human rights, together), that does not allow its people to starve or freeze in the winter or allow its citizens to grow up illiterate. Puddy and Cyn like to go on and on about all the charitable works that they do, and if they’re being honest, good for them. However, I think it is vastly better and more effective to participate in government and shape a civil society that creates conditions that precludes the need for their charity in the first place. That is a tremendous act of good, one that some self-righteous fundy or some self-aggrandizing ‘donor class’ person cannot lay sole claim to, it’s something WE do.

  115. 133

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    you yammering on about gay things crammed down your throat, one cannot but wonder if the entirety of the Republican party is just a conclave of closet cases.

    Lib Scientist… Puddy has used that specific commentary many times here. Puddy noticed it got a rise out of you. Puddy knew it would. Just ask ylb the databaze keeper. He’ll gladly display the comments if you ask nicely. In fact Pavlov calls his search starting right now.

  116. 134

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Puddy has used that specific commentary many times here.

    So you’ve ranted about having gay things crammed down your throat previously? Many times?

    A bit of a preoccupation, then, wouldn’t you say? Have you talked to Ted Haggard’s therapist? I think George Alan Rekkers works in that field also.

  117. 135

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @132

    However entertaining your complaints about gay things in your throat may be, I find your tedious avoidance of real issues all too typical.

    Oh, what the fuck, you’d only launch into bible quotes and ‘Jesus coming in glory’ or other such tripe.

  118. 136

    Don Joe spews:

    @134

    Oh, what the fuck, you’d only launch into bible quotes and ‘Jesus coming in glory’ or other such tripe.

    Actually, Puddy rarely quotes the Bible directly. He makes vague references to various passages, but he’ll rarely add any sort of commentary as to what he thinks it means. Couple this with the amount of effort it has taken you to get Puddy to make even cursory references to how he interprets the Bible, and a fascinating picture emerges.

    You see, Puddy is a man who claims to have the courage of his convictions, but who lacks sufficient faith in those convictions to state them clearly and unequivocally.

    Oh, he’ll make some lame excuse about pearls before swine, but there is nothing in the entirety of Jesus’ Olivet Discourse that would lend credence to an interpretation wherein the basic tenets of one’s beliefs are so “holy” as to be preclude their proclamation in a public forum such as this.

    Puddy would do well to spend less time talking about I Thessalonians and II Corinthians and more time studying Matthew chapters 5, 6 and 7.

  119. 137

    Steve spews:

    @130 I presently have two telescopes. One is a JMI NGT 12.5 split-ring equatorial-mount Newtonian reflector and the second is a Televue Pronto 70 mm semi-apochromatic refractor. I got the Pronto first and then came down with aperature fever. The JMI as a light bucket is great for deep space and the Pronto with its short focal length affords good wide-field views, especially with the 35mm Televue Panoptic eyepiece. I went overboard and have a dozen or so Televue eyepieces. I probably didn’t need the Plossels, given that I have so many Naglers and Panoptics. Also several Televue Barlows and lots of filters. Using the Pronto with the Nagler 4.5mm and 3X Barlow, the moon looks like I’m viewing it from an Apollo Lunar Command Module. It always amazes me how much magnification the Pronto can take for lunar observing. I have a Nikon camera dedicated to film astrophotograpy and I’ve been window shopping for years for a digital camera. I can’t seem to make up my mind on one. The good news is, the longer I wait, the less expensive and easier to use they’ve become. I’m also giving thought to trading the JMI for a go-to mount and Ritchey-Chretien, along with a small remote-operable dome. With that setup and a digital camera I could actually do the photography from my living room, or anywhere else for that matter.

    We have very nice dark skies out here. That was one of the attractions for me. I’ll often just lay back out on the deck and observe naked eye or with my 10×50 binoculars. I have the occasional private star-party out here for friends who are interested.

  120. 139

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @136
    Wow – that’s quite a set-up. I understood about 90% of the gear and performance discussion – and you are indeed quite a serious astronomer!

    I’ve always had telescope envy but being in Seattle with a street light out front, it was always a challenge. We have a little 4″ short tube, one of the off-the-shelf go-to Cellestons that is fun up to a point.

    When I was learning about the technology available, I had been looking a bit semi-seriously at one of those Russian Maksutov-Newtonians, as it seemed the best image/$$, though I never pulled that trigger. Even that would have been a pea-shooter next to your set-up, which must just be breath-taking to look through. A good optical instrument is indeed a thing of beauty – I’m a birder, and my old Nikon E-series with the ultra-low dispersion glass is one of my prized possessions (though I do sometimes have Swarovsky envy).

    Yes, yes, a star party!

  121. 140

    ArtFart spews:

    @15 “In the news this afternoon, XE Services, the re-named company which was formerly Blackwater USA, then Blackwater Worldwide, has been sold to a coalition of private investment banks.”

    Great. Now Wall Street has its own private army.

  122. 141

    Blue John spews:

    131 But this is part of the ‘BIG LIE’ of conservatism – that government is something other or apart, something not of us, but imposed on us.

    Nice post. Never quantified it before but it makes sense.
    To me, government is less likely to play favorites, unlike private charity. Because government has the electorate watching it. Government is suppose to help everyone who needs it, Private charity is not under that condition, they can pick and choose who they wish to bestow their largess.

    Control freaks would of course like the private charity idea, they can reward the people who please them and punish those who don’t.

    Government has to has to try, at least somewhat, be fair. And that often gets called needless regulation.

  123. 143

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Once again Don Joe @135 has no clue about what he’s talking about. Puddy gives references all the time.

    So Don Joe prove it.

    Reminds Puddy of the ASS-thrashing jon gave Don Joe over his “economic prowess”.

  124. 144

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    So when did the US Government become a “charity”?

  125. 145

    Blue John spews:

    Puddy, you are being purposely stupid.

    If the government safety nets of welfare, health care, DSHS, etc, are not there, maybe private NGOs and charities can be organized to fill in the needs.

    The government is watched by it’s electorate and answers to it’s electorate. Private organizations are not. For example, Catholic run health care can block abortion and birth control knowledge from being dispensed at their clinics, even if say 95% of the populace wants that information.

    The government has to be more responsive to the people because they get their money from everyone, private concerns only have to be responsive to their patrons. If their patrons only want their charities to help white people, or catholic people, or people who sleep with the patrons, that is their choice, cause it’s their money.

    It’s all about control.

  126. 146

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Puddy, you are being purposely stupid.

    It really is his M.O. with most every post. What’s new?

  127. 147

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    If the government safety nets of welfare, health care, DSHS, etc, are not there, maybe private NGOs and charities can be organized to fill in the needs.

    Funny blue john… Puddy has never seen welfare being called charity until today.

    So now who is purposely being stupid?

    You and Lib Scientist!

  128. 148

    Steve spews:

    You can do good planetary and lunar observing from light-polluted skies as the objects are bright enough. It’s the deep space objects that get washed out. Out here where there are dark skies, the deep space objects come into play. For example, through the 12.5″, the M13 globular cluster looks like diamonds on black velvet. That one always draws a gasp from first time viewers.

  129. 149

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Blue John:

    To me, government is less likely to play favorites, unlike private charity.

    Puddy:

    So when did the US Government become a “charity”?

    The point I’m trying to make is that there are needs and activities that need to be addressed in any society – things that would not get done if left entirely to “the market” but that are necessary nonetheless. Puddy has chided everyone here that is leftward leaning for not giving enough to charity (a baseless accusation that is typical of him in its dishonesty) by way of arguing that individual charitable activity is preferable to actions by government.

    This sort of thinking is similar to the juvenile libertarian positions taken by platypus on another thread – that homelessness and child abuse and malnutrition and education and environmental degradation should be addressed privately by interested groups of individuals.

    It is a deeply flawed way to look at solving problems, and is merely a reflection of the social darwinism (we have to come up with a better term than that – slandering the great Charles Darwin) that animates the right wing christianists and the adolescent libertarians.

    GOVERNMENT IS US.

    In our democracy (if we can keep it), we decide how things are run, and a government administered safety net and other social activities are reflection of our collective values – that no one should starve among plenty, that shelter is necessary, that education is a right, to name a few.

    Government doing these things can be vastly more effective, given economies of scale and other factors. Moreover, and I think this is what gets Puddy and his ilk, we all have a say in how it works.

    Part of the Neo-Feudal wet dream is that all activities are privatized, and therefore decision and priorities are privatized and reflect the desires of those writing the checks. It devolves more and more power onto the tinier and tinier elite that already owns most everything. What the Neo-Feudalists like Puddy hate is that a democratic government with the power to tax can dissolve inefficient concentrations of wealth and move them to where they can do the most good for the greatest number of people.

    This argument over charity is a microcosm of a larger and very dangerous game: do we all have a say in how our society is organized and run, or does all power concentrate into a very few hands. Do we as a people – though our government that is (in theory) equally owned by all – act on our sense of right and wrong, on ethics and morality, to nurture the development and full potential of all its citizens, or do we descend into a deeply stratified and sclerotic dystopia, where the only alternative for the vast masses ‘without’ is to pray for the day Jesus comes on a cloud of shining glory?

  130. 150

    Puddybud identifying rujax liberal scientist deathfrog and zotz as fools! spews:

    Notice how Liberal UnScientist rants on and on and on without any links to back up his useless diatribes?

    The point I’m trying to make is that there are needs and activities that need to be addressed in any society – things that would not get done if left entirely to “the market” but that are necessary nonetheless.

    This “point” is useless. No one on welfare or DSHS or any other government program would want to think it’s charity. Stupid Stupid Stupid just like you!

    Puddy has chided everyone here that is leftward leaning for not giving enough to charity (a baseless accusation that is typical of him in its dishonesty) by way of arguing that individual charitable activity is preferable to actions by government.

    Dishonest? It wasn’t Puddy who did the study. The Salvation Army did the study. It’s liberals who are cheap bastards. Also Arthur C. Brooks, Syracuse University professor, published to everyone liberals are cheap bastards through his book “Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism. Also once again government welfare is not charity. Still waiting for the Liberal UnScientist one to show Puddy where governments call welfare charity.

    This sort of thinking is similar to the juvenile libertarian positions taken by platypus on another thread – that homelessness and child abuse and malnutrition and education and environmental degradation should be addressed privately by interested groups of individuals.

    It only becomes an issue when it’s election time. Then it returns to the back burner of liberal thought.

    Government doing these things can be vastly more effective, given economies of scale and other factors. Moreover, and I think this is what gets Puddy and his ilk, we all have a say in how it works.

    Of course government is more effective at delivering welfare from other people’s taxes. How do you think ylb sits at home all day perusing the kook-aid sites? Welfare or unemployment; you decide!

  131. 151

    Zotz sez: The microchip in Klynical's ass was transmitting 6... 6... 6... spews:

    Puddy, you are being purposely stupid.

    Ummm, you’re just now figuring this out?

  132. 152

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Notice how Liberal UnScientist rants on and on and on without any links to back up his useless diatribes?

    At least I don’t link to sites that have nothing to do with my argument – like you do. As usual pud you are form without substance.

    This “point” is useless.

    My point was self-evident.

    No one on welfare or DSHS or any other government program would want to think it’s charity.

    Is that why you like it? Because for the recipients of charity there is some element of shame? What kind of monster are you?

    My point is that we as a people – together and all of us equal – need to craft a society THROUGH GOVERNMENT that maximizes our individual and shared potential. Part of that involves what is termed the safety net, but is simply a civilized people’s reaction to those that are suffering or have met hardship, and said civilized peoples’ decision that shelter and food and education are human rights in a society as rich as ours.
    You evidently want a dystopic feudal state where the economics are so perverse and unjust that they maximize poverty so you can give charity that both gets you Jesus-points as well as the perverse pleasure of having some poor soul both shamed and grateful to you.

    I’m beginning to understand your preoccupation with charity and your distinguishing it from welfare. You hate government helping people, leveling playing fields, providing opportunity, resisting over-accumulation of wealth – and I think this is for several reasons. One, your enraptured of wealth, like all Republicans, and your doing your duty to serve your superiors, hoping for table scraps later. Two, you need other people to suffer – it’s part of your apocalyptic religious insanity, but also gives you opportunity to feel better about yourself for being higher on the ladder than some other schmuck. Finally, relating to the last one, you can give charity that gets your loins tingling – your little story about giving yuans to poor Chinese kids brought this to mind – you think that god is going to reward you, and you get to experience the perverse pleasure of having a shamed poor person grateful to you.

    What a sick fuck you are, Pudster.

    I didn’t understand your charity/welfare distinction and why you clung to it so doggedly, but I think I get it now.

    ****

    It only becomes an issue when it’s election time. Then it returns to the back burner of liberal thought.

    Fuck you again, Putz. That’s not the least bit true and you know it.

    Of course government is more effective at delivering welfare from other people’s taxes.

    Again, willful stupidity. WE ARE OUR GOVERNMENT in a democracy, and provide ourselves services thereof, paying for said services and actions in our own collective (communal?) interests with tax receipts – taxes structured progressively, for from whom much has been given, much will be expected. (I believe that would be Luke 12:48, and suggests that we agree on the Bible inspiring government!)

  133. 154

    spews:

    ASS-thrashing jon gave Don Joe

    Heh… Another sockpuppet eh Puddybud? At least AFAICR you didn’t circle jerk with him.

    Right “you dope”, “you meathead”?

  134. 155

    spews:

    your little story about giving yuans to poor Chinese kids brought this to mind

    Ahhh. So Puddybud was in China contributing in some way to the Chinese economy.

    Collaborating with Chicoms.. Perfect..

  135. 156

    spews:

    So funny. Private charity, while appreciated, did not solve the problems of the great depression.

    The largest government works project of all time – WWII – turned out to be something of a lasting solution.

    Private charity is not solving the economic problems of today either.

    Neither will throwing Republicans at the problem or keeping taxes on rich people low.