Open Thread

Fareed Zakaria points out how Glenn Beck’s producer’s attempts to justify Beck’s fuzzy math on Islamic terrorism ends up defining Beck himself as a terrorist.

Comments

  1. 2

    spews:

    I often hear muslims say “Don’t condemn our entire religion because of the actions of 10% of our religion.”* So, if there are 1.5 billion muslims, that means there are 150 million muslim terrorists.

    * Dr. Muhammed Sa’eed Abbas al Abdul-Hakim bin Farik-Fatwa Hussein.

  2. 3

    Deathfrogg spews:

    Glen Beck is a gadfly. His diatribes skirt the edge of incitement to riot without actually calling for specific acts so he gets away with it. Being a pathological liar, he’ll cross a line someday.

    From the Free Republic comments on Richard Holbrooke’s death:

    If you believe that Islam is the biggest danger to our civilization, then Holbrooke was Islam’s most important enabler. The architect of two new Muslim nations in Europe who stabbed the Serbs in the back.
    The USA had a great opportunity to join with Orthodox Serbia and Russia in the early 1990s to slaughter Albanians and put the prosperous Croats and Slovenes back into Yugoslavia under our and Russians allies, the Serbs. No other alignment works, for 900 years.
    Holbrooke screwed up our hopes of working with a non-Communism Russia. Now Russia has a dictator, the Muslims have one-third of Yugoslavia and we have a Muslim American president.
    Holbrooke was either ignorant of the Balkans or was working against the USA or both.

    This is how the right wing thinks in this country. They are no different from the right wing in any South American or European country. They like the idea of mass slaughter. they want mass murder to be an active aspect of U.S. foreign policy.

    I have yet to meet a single “teabagger” or “libertartian” who has actually ever read the Constitution or any Supreme Court rulings on various laws over the last couple of centuries. There were several experiments done in the mid and late 1980’s, in places like Pennsylvania, Kentucky and a few other States. Kids in the middle grades were given handout copies of the U.S. Constitution and the assignment was to have them read the words out loud to their parents to mark agreement or disagreement to varying degrees. I don’t know the final statistics, but there were a few lawsuits filed, several near riots, and a couple of assaults of teachers and school district administrators for teaching Communism to the kids. Several local school boards in Texas and other states have repeatedly tried to ban outright, the teaching of Constitutional law to schoolchildren, and references to it in history books have been removed.

    People like Beck are just crazy and stupid. They react to stimuli like Pavlov’s dogs. They don’t have the capability to think beyond the immediate situation. They exist entirely in the now. 2 hours ago is irrelevant, and 2 hours from now does not exist. Couple that with an entirely nihilistic mindset, and you have the weapons grade stupidity exhibited daily by Glen Beck, Michelle Malkin and Rush Limbaugh.

    Not to mention their followers.

  3. 5

    Right Stuff spews:

    3. Deathfrogg spews:

    Edited for stupidity

    This is how the right wing thinks in this country. They are no different from the right wing in any South American or European country. They like the idea of mass slaughter. they want mass murder to be an active aspect of U.S. foreign policy.

    I have yet to meet a single “teabagger” or “libertartian” who has actually ever read the Constitution or any Supreme Court rulings on various laws over the last couple of centuries.

    You, based on your comments, are not better than the extreme that you rail against. I’ve read your comments and the underlying theme in most of them is anger, frustration, and impotence.
    Your comments are so far beyond the limit of reason that logic doesn’t apply.

    I identify myself as conservative. Your comments about the right wing are plain stupid.
    With regards to meeting “tea party” minded people…
    Get out more. There are plenty to be found. In fact, in your state of mind…..your surrounded by them.

  4. 6

    Brain Damage spews:

    Mitt Romney is on meth. I can’t prove it, but it’s the only explanation. He, OF COURSE, is mad at Obama for this tax cut deal. Why? I can’t make this stuff up…Romney is upset that the deal is “only temporary and that the deal adds to the nation’s deficit.”

    ROTFLMAO

    Those are diametrically opposing concepts you moron. The REASON the tax cuts we made to expire (by Republicans) is BECAUSE of how much they added to the deficit. Romney simply has to be a meth addict to think the tax cut should be permanent…AND also be upset that they add to the deficit.

    WHAT AN IDIOT! Or to be fair, he might understand this, but he’s counting on the Republican base to be psychotically stupid and hand him the nomination because he wants MORE tax cuts and lower deficits (while increasing military spending and protecting Medicare)….sigh.

    Promise people they can have everything for free and the dumb ones will vote for you.

    P.S. It’s Dec 2010…and Obama is STILL polling higher than Ronald Reagan at this same period in his first term! Either Obama is doing just fine, or Reagan wasn’t as eternally loved by all humanity as we like to pretend. JUST like Reagan, if the economy is improving (remember Reagan had a double dip recession) in 2011 or early 2012, Obama will go on to an easy victory. Obama might suck at getting what he wants, but his strength is his campaigning skills. It’s what he’s best at (sadly).

  5. 7

    Right Stuff spews:

    So I first heard of this at Huffpo.
    Did a little research.
    Here is the actual poll.

    http://www.worldpublicopinion......09_rpt.pdf

    And, there is this…

    http://dictionary.reference.co.....?qsrc=2446

    and

    http://dictionary.reference.co.....?qsrc=2446

    So, looking at the actual info, starting at the results on page 5, of those polled, I can see ~10% overall approve or have mixed feelings about attatcks on US civilians.

    Make of it what you will. The numbers are the numbers.

    For the record, I think Glenn Beck goes too far in his personal attacks on people. I will say that he at least urges his audience to do their own independent research and verify his claims. Not take them as delivered, as true.

  6. 8

    Brain Damage spews:

    @7 ROTFLMAO

    You’ve never seen a Glen Beck show right? He encourages people NOT to listen to “his facts” and to go research issues. Really? Seriously? LOL That’s CUTE! If you spent 5 minutes on Google you’d find 95% of what he says is just made up. Obama is socialist! No, he’s the precise exact opposite. Obama is taking the public’s money and giving it to GM and AIG….he’s not “confiscating” GM or AIG and distributing their money to the people. He’s propping up Wall Street and bailing out for-profit private companies. That’s the OPPOSITE of socialism, not anything Castro or Chavez would do.

    Hmmm….say…what % of Americans “mind” or don’t really care if we attack some middle east country and kill civilians in Islamic countries? I’m guessing at LEAST 10% (the most radical frothing at the mouth right) doesn’t care if we kill a few “towel head” kids or not, since they know they’ll all grow up to be terrorists anyway.

    Wow. There are a billion Muslims. And they all hate America, are terrorists or support terrorism. Sucks for us! We only have 350 million people. They can simple crush us in an instant. Oh wait, that’s not true, anymore than the KKK represents all Christianity or the neo-Nazi’s represent all white people.

  7. 9

    rhp6033 spews:

    Republicans have been feeding Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, and the other idiots on Fox News their talking points for over a decade now.

    It’s become pretty clear that the Republicans no longer have an ideology. They just do focus groups and polling to test buzz words and find out what issues make people angry. Then they claim it’s the fault of the Democrats. They will easily (and quickly) switch sides on any given issue, depending upon which side of the fence looks greener.

    This allows them the luxory of arguing both that the Democrats haven’t done enough for the economy since it hasn’t improved more, railing against the deficits, railing against the bailouts, and calling for tax cuts – despite the internal contradictions within those various positions. They even blamed the 2008 banking collapse and Bush Wall Street bailouts on Obama, when he wasn’t even President yet when that occured!

    This was pretty clear this month when the Republicans refused another extension of the unemployment benefits because the fear of the deficit required spending cuts first, But then were more than happy to accept far greater deficits caused by the compromise on the tax cuts – as long as it included the tax cuts for the wealthiest.

    Pundits were wondering how the Republicans were going to reconcile these contradictory positions to the American people in 2012. They shouldn’t waste their time. Republicans make no attempt to be consistent with historical facts or reconcile obvious hypocracy. Within six months they will be denying it ever occured, and they will try to take credit for the recovery which is already in progress.

  8. 10

    spews:

    @7
    So, looking at the actual info, starting at the results on page 5, of those polled, I can see ~10% overall approve or have mixed feelings about attatcks on US civilians.

    Merely “approving” of attacks on US civilians does not make one a terrorist – just a terrorist-sympathizer. That’s the point that Zakaria is making.

    Furthermore, when the same kind of survey was asked of Americans in 2006, 24 percent said that they approve of attacks intentionally aimed at civilians.

    Does that mean that 24 percent of Americans are terrorists?

  9. 11

    Right Stuff spews:

    Hi Lee,
    I don’t find the actual stud cited in your link. I found this http://www.pipa.org/archives/us_opinion.php

    Which is the organization refereced as having conducted the survey. I don’t see the actual survey they reference.

    On a broader note, it all comes down to definitions. The link I provided states
    “1. a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.”

    Merely “approving” of attacks on US civilians does not make one a terrorist – just a terrorist-sympathizer. That’s the point that Zakaria is making.

    Yes, I get that. I also get the point that while terrorist sympathizers aren’t “pulling the trigger” they still are enemies who support those who do.

    Does that mean that 24 percent of Americans are terrorists?

    Hey, I’m easy…Anyone who supports the intentional killing of innocent civilians is a terrorist.

  10. 12

    Michael spews:

    Looks like there’s some justice in the world after all…

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ethru.html

    Spokane woman recovers VW microbus stolen in 1974
    A year ago, Mikey Squires thought her van was gone for good.

    By SHAWN VESTAL
    The Spokesman-Review
    SPOKANE, Wash. —
    A year ago, Mikey Squires thought her van was gone for good.

    Now she’s planning a welcome-home party for the 1965 Volkswagen microbus that’s taken her on the ride of her life. Unless there’s another twist in this much-twisted tale, Squires has her hands on the van at last – 36 years after it was stolen from a Spokane parking lot and 13 months after it was rediscovered by customs agents in California. Since then, it’s been a year of wrangling over what must be the most-contested question of ownership outside the Falkland Islands.

    “I was a corporate attorney for more than 30 years, for big companies,” said Kris Cook, a retired attorney from Oklahoma who was captivated by Squires’ story and stepped in to help. “This was as complex as any multi-, multimillion- dollar negotiation or transaction I’ve been involved in. … We worked it out so everybody was happy.”

    No one more than Squires, a Spokane native and longtime manager at the Cathay Inn, who is currently basking in the double glow of the Southern California sunshine and a happy ending.

  11. 13

    spews:

    @11
    Hey, I’m easy…Anyone who supports the intentional killing of innocent civilians is a terrorist.

    That’s fair, that definition certainly comes down to semantics. But where this gets complicated is when you then establish a military policy that says “in order to defeat terrorism, we have to kill all the terrorists”. Once you combine those two things, then you’ve set yourself out upon a mission to criminalize thoughts in addition to actions. And that policy will never be implemented equally. In other words, a person in the Middle East who believes that U.S. civilians can be targeted is deemed a terrorist, but U.S. civilians who believe that Middle Eastern civilians can be deliberately targeted aren’t deemed terrorists, even though they have the exact same mindset.

  12. 14

    Mrs Cynical troll spews:

    100% of trolls posting under the name Mr Cynical prefer sex with Montana goats, having compared them to the others they have tested in all 50 states.

  13. 15

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ (Self-Righteous) Stuff

    Teabaggers Read the comments.

    More Teabaggers Pick a thread, any thread.

    You will never convince me that the so-called “teabagger” movement is any less than a resurgence of Fascism. Bought and paid for by billionaires, and swallowed, hook, line and sinker by the average blue collar type with little formal education beyond high school like its sugar coated steak fried in chicken grease.

    Teabagger is just another word for Fascist, or blackshirt.

    Several of my Jewish friends have been watching the current political drift of this country, and the last election with a lot of trepidation. They know where it goes every time, and they are openly wondering how safe the United States will be for them in the future.

  14. 16

    CaughtInTheMiddle spews:

    @ 15

    My wife’s family lived under faschism in Italy. They say the closest thing they have seen to faschism since them resides on Pennsilvania Avenue. As a history buff, I tend to agree.

    I don’t think you understand what Faschism really is…

    Oh, and your use of “teabagger” even in reference takes you a long way to getting a black eye if you ever had the courage to stand in front of me and say it…

  15. 17

    Right Stuff spews:

    Several of my Jewish friends have been watching the current political drift of this country, and the last election with a lot of trepidation. They know where it goes every time, and they are openly wondering how safe the United States will be for them in the future

    Then your friends are idiots, no question.

    Your problem is that you don’t see that you’re part of the problem..

  16. 18

    CaughtInTheMiddle spews:

    He probably has the same kind of Jewish friends as Hillary’s friends she was always remarking about on the campaign trail — imaginary, used to make an invalid point.

  17. 19

    ArtFart isn't ready to be classified as a "useless eater" spews:

    @6 The tax-cut “compromise” contains one item that in and of itself should be considered a deal breaker by all progressives. The payroll-tax break (presented as help for “small business” but really another shill to the megacorporations) includes $190 billion in short-term borrowing, primarily from China, to be added to the negative side of the Social Security fund’s balance sheet. This is practically the ultimate right-wing wet dream–a covert effort to turn the heretofore bogus claim that Social Security is “in trouble” into reality.

  18. 20

    Right Stuff spews:

    @11
    Lee
    this is spot on.

    But where this gets complicated is when you then establish a military policy that says “in order to defeat terrorism, we have to kill all the terrorists”

    It will never happen. We ( a collective societey of individuals ) will never be able to remove terrorists or terrorism from our society.

    The “War on Terror”? stupid. Might as well have a war on smoking.

  19. 21

    CaughtInTheMiddle spews:

    @ 19

    You actually think Social Security is NOT in facing a looming financial problem?

    I mean, I have problems with this deal for this and other reasons, but SS is facing real problems!

  20. 22

    headless lucy spews:

    How was the ‘10% of Muslims are terrorists’ figure arrived at?

    The guy was merely trying to state that a small percentage of Muslims are jihadists (just like a small percentage of Christians are Christianists or left behinders’.

    The people who put the words in Beck’s mouth understood this, but they saw an opprtunity to create more fear and hatred by spinning the story.

    I’m a Christian and I say that only 10% of Christians are terrorists like Tim McVeigh. I won’t hold my breath until Beck uses this information.

    (By the way, is blubbering a strictly conservative personality trait. Boehner cries all the time and so does Beck. Nancy Pelosi had more grit than the both of them.)

  21. 25

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Gregoire is working like a wild woman trying to balance the upcoming Budget.
    The obvious question is WHY did she wait so many years to address the obvious?
    Had she acted sooner on obvious things like Pensions, she wouldn’t have created near the stress.
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ns14m.html

    Kicking the can down the road by Gregoire and the Union owned Legislature has caused tremendous damage to our economy and government services. Gregoire is now kicking it against the wall.
    State Employees Health Care contribution went from 12 to 15%??? BIG F***ING DEAL!
    It should be 25-30%…which is generous considering the private sector unemployment and benefit cuts.
    Let’s get real.
    gregoire has no choice.
    She grabbed the low-hanging fruit first…easy stuff.
    Here is where it gets interesting and no ImamObaMao bailout this next Budget.

  22. 26

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @21

    but SS is facing real problems!

    This alone betrays you as an idiot. Social Security has minor, relatively easy fixes to stay solvent. Medicare is the BIG issue.
    The meme that Social Security is “in crisis” is one cooked up by the plutocrats of the right, and swallowed by fools like you, and is an essential step in dismantling the New Deal.

  23. 27

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @16

    My wife’s family lived under faschism in Italy. They say the closest thing they have seen to faschism since them resides on Pennsilvania Avenue.

    You should learn to spell, along with Platypusrex.
    And hey – I thought Obama was a socialist Kenyan – or did Sarah Palin send out a new tweet?!

  24. 28

    Steve spews:

    @25 “She grabbed the low-hanging fruit first…”

    Odd, that’s what the goat said about you.

  25. 29

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @15

    Several of my Jewish friends have been watching the current political drift of this country, and the last election with a lot of trepidation. They know where it goes every time, and they are openly wondering how safe the United States will be for them in the future.

    I’ve been wondering the same thing – when will they come for the liberals or the atheists? I was having this discussion with a friend and teacher of mine – a Muslim from India – who fears that the scapegoats will be the Muslims in this country. I think he’s likely right, but there may not be enough Muslims to satisfy the bloodlust, when it comes.

    Just like the KKK were equal opportunity haters, the present iteration of Christianist Dominionist Teahaddist Left-Behind readings apocalyptic freaks are going to go after any other.

  26. 30

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ 17

    Considering the fact that one of them is a longtime friend of the family, and a Professor of history at a large southern California University, I doubt he’d be what anyone but a teabagger would call an “idiot”. The fact that many other Jewish folks I know say similiar things as he does means only that people can see it for what it is.

    Who needs a Jewish menace, when a Muslim or a Mexican one will work just fine? Hitler only used the Jews as a catspaw, a convenient scapegoat to put his ideology into the mainstream German mindset that already had an undercurrent of antisemitism running through it. All he did was give it a nudge, and point his finger. When people are starving, they will glom onto anything that presents a solution, even if the presenter is a psychotic fuckhead with his own agenda.

    I’ve worked with Bulgarians, Rumanians, Russians and Serbs who would walk off a jobsite instead of working for a Jewish customer, so the mindset still exists and is current, especially in Northern or Eastern Europe.

  27. 31

    Doc Daneeka spews:

    The CBO projects the total funding for Iraq,
    Afghanistan and the Global War on Terror could total from about $1.56 trillion to about $1.88 trillion for the two decades of FY2001-FY2020 depending on the scenario.

    Taking the lower number, and combining it with Peter Bergen’s estimate, we can only conclude that the current and projected annual expenditure for fighting global terrorism is $50 million dollars per terrorist. Even if we adopt Beck’s ridiculous, pulled-straight-from-his-ass estimate of 150 million terrorists, that still has the U.S. taxpayer spending $50 thousand each year for each terrorist through the year 2020.

    Whether the number is $50 million per year per terrorist (closer to the truth) or $50 thousand per year per terrorist, and knowing what we know about the true roots of violent extremism, the inescapable conclusion is that U.S. foreign policy is totally fucked in the head – and has been for a really, really long time.

    Glen Beck would rather spend his time whipping up xenophobia than addressing the simple and obvious truth that if we just spent anything close to this kind of money on economic development in these parts of the world, we’d get off much cheaper, quicker, and who knows, people might even like us.

    But efficient spending has never really figured into any part of this. We’ll gladly go broke gun-fighting our way around the world rather than spend the taxpayer’s hard earned money helping brown skinned people. They get bombs or they get nothing.

  28. 33

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Doc @ 31–
    So answer this Doc..
    You have your guy Obama, a filibuster-proof Senate for awhile and a Supermajority in the House…
    Why are we still pouring money into the rathole?
    Why are you focusing on Glen Beck instead of the KLOWNS who have made the decision to stay..YOUR GUYS & GALS!

    PS-
    You are naive to believe we could spend money in this region and change hearts.

  29. 35

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    steve-
    What did I say in 33 that was untrue?
    NOTHING!
    You leftist folks seem mighty reluctant to point inward at the problem.
    I laugh thinking about how proud you folks were when the messiah was anointed and his Regime began with lots of tough talk. It made y’all salivate.
    However, in terms of action.
    Still in Afghanistan
    Still in Iraq
    National Debt increased 30% in 2 years.
    Job situation still sucks.
    Obama pushing Bush Tax Cuts.
    Dems got crushed in 2010.
    Obama only cares about getting re-elected so he can become the beloved Bill Clinton of the 21st Century.

    The list goes on & on & on.
    And Obama’s centerpiece Legislation is in the Courts. If he loses, there is no way to fund this as it will never get thru Congress again.
    Obama ends up with nothing…but lots of debt and a worse economic climate than he inherited with higher unemployment.

    No wonder you are soooooooo bitter steve.
    Get a handle on that bitterness…for your own well-being.

  30. 36

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Also, did sell some ABX (Barrick Gold) the other day. Hanging on to my hard gold & silver…although sold a bag of silver dimes for a $5/oz Premium over the silver price. There is always some premium on hard gold & silver. Too costly to trade regularly though.
    If you want to buy and can’t do it privately, I recommend Monex.
    Very honorable from my experience several years ago when I was accumulating.

  31. 37

    Steve spews:

    Back to posting imaginary trades again? Goldy’s had my trade confirmations for two years. For two years you’ve produced nothing.

    “bitterness”

    More projection. It’s a Psych 101 thing.

    Get a grip, you dumbfuck KLOWN.

  32. 38

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    steve-
    Yeah, right…whatever.
    You are the angry bitter one Steve.
    Where is that getting you?
    Holding on to past hurts.
    Why not change your life and be more joyful steve?
    I’m a happy guy.
    Puddy is too.
    Put you seem sooooooo angry.
    it’s sad.
    I’m sad for you.