Open Thread 5/24

- The Democratic Conversation.

– Rob McKenna’s time at the County Council was totally above board.

– On the one hand Hustler is misogynistic is hardly a story on the other hand yiiiiiiiiikes.

– This is quite old and I don’t remember who gets the hat tip, but this map of Seattle’s racial profile as of the last census is pretty interesting.

– Some of these are a bit of a stretch of either “Seattle” or “under $25″ but I can recommend many of them.

– Folklife is this weekend. The Flying Blind Blues Band at 2:05 on Friday features HA’s own Darryl.


  1. 1

    Bob spews:

    This is a Sean Trende piece from RCP. Read carefully the line about the 26% Obama got in a county in the heart of coal country. That’s 26% of the vote in a county in a state in which the only candidate on the ballot was Barack Obama.


    Then look at the states of Ohio and Pennsylvania from the perspective of each of them being important coal states, not to mention being pretty well stuffed with Catholics.

    Then look back at the most recent HA presidential outcome projections and ask yourself if you really believe that PA and OH are that solidly in the Obama column.

    Just sayin’.

  2. 2

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    ask yourself if you really believe that PA and OH are that solidly in the Obama column.

    Who ever said ‘solidly’?
    We all know that PA is Philly and Pittsburgh with Alabama in the middle; similar demographics in Ohio.
    ‘Culturally Southern’ I believe is a euphemism for ‘racist’ – howl as much as you like. Obama will never get them. There are urban/suburban working-class whites, particularly male, so-called ‘Reagan Democrats’ who may be swingy and get-able for the Democrats.

    Nothing is a given. This election will be close, and is losable for the good guys. I’m just happy that the recent polls look good for our side – President Obama – in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Florida. It’s always better to be up than down. And this week all the talk has been BAIN, BAIN, BAIN. Casting that as “Do you want this heartless vulture as President” means we’re winning the messaging war, no matter how much chaff trolls like you throw out there.

    So, Bub, how does Mitten’s experience as a vulture capitalist prepare him to be the President again?

  3. 4

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Hey all – this is a topic Michael has been promoting – just how execrable Cathy McMorris Rogers is. Here’s a Salon story about her being the face of the Republican counter to the War on Women.

    Maybe a visit to here laughable and profoundly dishonest Facebook page is in order – leave some comments!

    From the Salon article:

    And she happens to be the only woman to have given birth twice while in Congress. Her firstborn son, Cole, has Down syndrome, and McMorris Rodgers has agitated for funding and benefits for disabilities and Down in particular. In an article pegged to Sarah Palin’s run for vice president, McMorris Rodgers told the Times (in their partial paraphrase) that she feels “like many working mothers: caught between her job and ‘wanting to be the best mom and best wife you can possibly be….You’re torn.’” While she’s sponsored several bills aimed at helping military families – her husband is a retired navy officer who she has said “has a new appreciation for stay-at-home parents” – and parents of children with disabilities, broader parental accommodations like paid family leave aren’t even on the table.

    …again illustrates that Republicans only care about helping people when they have a personal connection of some sort – remember Nancy Reagan belatedly getting on the stem cell bandwagon only after her dear “Ronnie” overtly, undeniably manifested Alzheimer’s dementia?

    It’s a character flaw, a lack of a form a empathy that prevents them from being able to act to help another only when they themselves are helped. I think it’s a form of sociopathy, and underscores that Republicans, and sociopaths, should be allowed nowhere near any sort of power.

  4. 5

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @2 The operative language here is “good guys.” We’re right, they’re wrong. We care about ordinary Main Street people; they’re out to shear any sheep they can lay their hands on.

    @1 If you want to be some rich guy’s sheep, go for it; don’t let us dissuade you. But don’t expect us to go there with you.

    (Full Disclosure: Roger Rabbit isn’t above shearer the shearer, if they let me do it; after all, their money spends as good as anyone else’s.)

  5. 6

    Bob spews:


    Shouldn’t you be asking how Romney’s experience as a governor, as a Republican in a blue state, prepares him for the presidency?

    Or how his successful turnaround of the SLC Olympic games, which was a shambles when he came aboard, exemplifies his executive skills?

    You DO recall that Romney served a term as governor, do you not? That seemed to be sorta helpful when Clinton was president.

  6. 7

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Oh, gawd, Bub is doing a slightly more elegant puddy – injecting nonsensical reich-wing talking points into the conversation.

    So, Bub, point out, in detail…

    how does Mitten’s experience as a vulture capitalist prepare him to be the President again?

  7. 8

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Shouldn’t you be asking how Romney’s experience as a governor, as a Republican in a blue state, prepares him for the presidency?

    Absolutely! Why isn’t he talking about that? In fact, they are desperately trying to keep the Massachusetts experience out of the public discourse.

    He was so unpopular after one term that he declined to run for a second.

    Bring it on! ( to quote GEORGE W BUSH – something else you guys don’t want to talk about!)

  8. 9

    Bob spews:

    @ 2

    Hey Wordsmith:

    Regarding ‘solidly’, I guess I extrapolated that since the news, according to Darryl, was ‘terrible’ that Romney was behind in Ohio, that must mean that Obama has a pretty solid lead in that state.

    And since the news of Obama’s poll leads in PA was ‘super terrible’, that would suggest Obama has a pretty solid lead there as well.

    If you are going to take issue with my use of the term ‘solid’, to be fair you should also take issue with Darry’s characterization of how bad Obama’s current poll leads there make things for Romney.

  9. 10

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Ok – I gotta go – do some work.

    But Bub’s comments have me thinking – I think Mittens has a messaging problem.

    He want to talk about Bain – VULTURE CAPITALISM!

    He (really doesn’t) want to talk about being governor – MASSACHUSETTS!!

    He alludes to Olympics in Salt Lake City – MORMONS!!!

    I really think Mittens, who has the human warmth of a microchip, has a messaging problem.

  10. 11

    Steve spews:

    Shit, here we go again. Bob gets run off the 5/22 open thread only to start all over again. Just cut to the chase, asswipe, and go all racist on us again and get it the fuck over with.

  11. 12

    Bob spews:

    @ 2

    You sure FL looks good for Obama? Really?

    Then how come Darryl has it flipped to the Romney column? Did you see this week’s poll results?

    Do things look that good for Obama in OH? 1% lead? Really? Any idea how many times Obama has been to Ohio during his presidency? And that gives him a 1% lead and you feel good about that? Obama beat McCain by 4 points in OH. So he’s down three vs 2008 and the GOP is only now beginning to consolidate around Romney. Oh, and there’s the Portman factor.

    You should feel very nervous about OH. It’s been the focal point of Obama’s time in office and all that time spent on the ground has given him a 1 point lead.

    Care to rephrase?

  12. 13

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Awww – Bub’s reduced to whining over semantics.

  13. 14

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 6: Since when does Bob get to decide what we consider to be the relevant topic for discussion, especially with regard to Mitt’s qualifications?

    I expect when we are talking about Mitt’s record as governor (47th out of 50th in job creation) he would say you should be looking at Bain Capital, when you look at Bain Capital you would say we should be looking at his term as governor.

    Mitt’s got problems either way. If you look at his term as governor you’ve got him doing not just flips, but sumersalts compared to his current positions. He invites the “etch-a-sketch candidate” nomenclature. But when you look at Bain Capital, you see everything that’s wrong with American finance over the past thirty years – the rewarding of the top 1% for deconstructing American industry, instead of building itself up from the ground floor and winning through competition.

    Mitt can’t have it both ways.

  14. 15

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    I’m nervous about the whole thing – that’s why I’m motivated to work and donate $$. I’m a PCO in my neighborhood, and will likely work in others.

    Take nothing for granted, and certainly don’t let cretins like you diminish my enthusiasm.

    Oh, and by the way, please explain…

    how does Mitten’s experience as a vulture capitalist prepare him to be the President again?

  15. 16

    Bob spews:

    @ 13

    Uh, it was YOU that began the whining about semantics in @2, or did you forget?

    All I did was reply to your whine.

    Looking forward to your comments regarding your reasons for comfort in a state (FL) now in the Romney column, as well as why a 1% lead in OH gives you comfort.

  16. 17

    Bob spews:

    @ 15

    So it’s a happy nervousness you feel, then? Blending your @15 and @2 comments, at least?. Like she’s let you get to third base and you think you’ll get all the way home but you’re still only at third base.

    That kind of nervousness?

    Not sure I see it that way. Florida’s poll results say she already dumped your sorry ass.

  17. 18

    rhp6033 spews:

    Bob apparantly doesn’t have anything better to do than to lurk around waiting for a new thread, so he can be among the top posts in any new thread. He’s hoping that nobody gets beyond the first few posts and where he gets ideologically and factually trashed in the subsequent comments.

    I’m convinced he doesn’t have a job, may have never had a real one he held for any length of time, and is on some Republican payroll to lurk in threads under various disguises and post the Republican talking-point of the day. These guys show up here every election year (in particular), post in increasing frequency how dismal the Democratic prospects look, only to dissapear completely shortly after the election.

    I think it was “cynical” who had slightly more staying power, he kept around long enough to advice everyone to divest themselves of all their stocks in mid-January 2009 because Obama was going to trash the economy. (Those who took his advice would have sold at the bottom of the market and have to buy again when the stock rose higher and gold started to drop in value).

  18. 19

    Bob spews:

    @ 18

    So did the ‘trolls’ who showed up in 2010 disappear after the election because the Dems had such a good showing?

    Yes, I have a job. With some flexibility, fortunately.

    Anything to say about OH and PA or are you just mad that my day begins early enough that I can pick up a salient piece by a respected poll-watcher and put it out there for comment?

  19. 20

    Steve spews:

    So tell us, Bob, when you decided to STFU about your three year residency, was it because it finally dawned on you that it was a doctor who was asking the question?

  20. 21

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ 20

    I think it is probably because his “residency” was in Western State Hospital. I’m wondering when they’re going to notice he’s missing.

  21. 22

    dorky dorkman spews:

    I think educating the public about how a leveraged buyout works (and that prior to Reagan, it was illegal) would give them the wherewithal to understand that Vulture Capitalists like Romney do not buy distressed businesses and then make the hard decisions needed to sell off assets to make them solvent again.

    A Vulture Capitalist like Romney often buys a viable and profitable business with a little money down and then, as the new owner, puts the debt he has incurred for himself onto the back of the business just bought. The business is then declared to be distressed and the Vulture Capitalist (the bane of true business creativity) sells off the pieces and keeps the money for himself.

    American jobs and a viable business is destroyed in the process, but on the bright side, companies that make car elevators have a new customer.

    This is the candidate that ‘Bob’ is plumping for.

  22. 23

    dorky dorkman spews:

    If you have ever worked as a telemarketer, you will recognize the modern ‘investment bank’ for what it is.

    I think I’ll buy a mailing and calling list from AARP, set up a phone bank, and start my own ‘investment bank’.

    These are the kind of people ‘Bob’ admires and wants to emulate.

  23. 24

    No Time for Fascists spews:

    bob, You left the other thread so I’ll repeat this here.
    Do you think we should have a strong broad middle class in America, even if, as a consequence, it means that the rich have to become less rich in the process? (Note: I did not say poor, I said LESS rich)

    Most of the progressive here are arguing for policies that they think are better for the middle class. You seem to be fighting against that.

  24. 25

    Steve spews:

    “I’m convinced he doesn’t have a job”

    How could you say such a thing, RHP? Bob has already told us that he’s one of the 1%. He has told us that he owns a service company. And he has that three year residency going for him as well. So of course he’d show up in an election year and post dumbfuck comments all day long on a local political blog.

  25. 26

    rhp6033 spews:

    I’ve never known a “resident” who had enough “flexibility” in their schedule to be posting all day on political discussion boards, or a doctor who would do so during the workday.

    As for myself, I’ve got a flexible schedule, too. I’m salaried/management, and tend to work long hours, so if I’m here, it’s because I’m waiting for somebody else to do their job before I can do mine. I haven’t been on the site on the last couple of days because work kept me busy. Other days, I’m frequently available. Today my day started at 7:00 a.m. and will probably end at 10:00 p.m., assuming everything works out right.

  26. 27

    Steve spews:

    “bob, You left the other thread”

    He does that every time he realizes that his ass is being handed to him. He waits for another open thread and then starts all over again. Cut & run. It’s the only thing in which wingnuts like Bob actually excel.

  27. 28

    dorky dorkman spews:

    re 27: I’ve noticed some cracks in bob’s smarmy self-assurance that he is the smartest guy in the room.

    Maybe on uSP…

    He’s probably gone back to wingnut central for some new twists on the same old talking points. The man’s mind is so twisted, it resembles Robert Plant’s hairdo or a clump of angelhair pasta.

  28. 29

    Steve spews:

    @28 It’s at this point in a thread when Bob unleashes his inner racist. So I’m sure we can count on him to follow his MO and drop a few of those turds before he splits for another thread.

  29. 30

    Steve spews:

    @28 “bob’s smarmy self-assurance”

    If you don’t have any objections, I might start using that instead of “Bob’s asswipe narcissism”.

  30. 31

    rhp6033 spews:

    In the old days, you had “empire builders”. These guys built railroads, steel industries, steamboat industries, oil pumping and distribution networks, etc. As a result you had great fortunes made (Vanderbuilts, Rockefellers, etc.). You had to watch that they didn’t over-reach their political influence, bribe politicians, or create monopolies, but other than that competition was fine.

    But over the past thirty years or so, the right-wingers eschewed such a slow and potentially risky road to wealth. They wanted guaranteed wealth, and they wanted it now! Thus the rise of “vulture capitalisim”, which in essense meant “corporate raiders”.

    It’s not that we didn’t know about the dangers of Vulture capitalism. It’s just that the right-wingers scoffed at our concerns (not “repudiated”, but “scoffed”, without further discussion).

    For contemporanious accounts of “vulture capitalism”, read “Barbarians at the Gates”, which came out about 1990, I believe. It dealt with the private takeover of previously publically-held RJR-Nabisco. Stockholders who had held onto their shares for over a century withinin the same family were forced to exchange them for a combination of cash and shares in riskier venture.

    Other depictions of the era include “Wall Street” (Michal Douglas, Charlie Sheen,1987), and “Other People’s Money” (featuring Danny Devito and Gregory Peck, 1991). Aiding them was a stock brockerage and money-manager business which insisted in double-digit returns on investment every quarter. This encouraged short-term profits at the expense of long-term planning – why plan for the long term when you expect to cash out long before the proverbial excrement hits the fan?

    While some of us argued that there were long-term problems with this approach, the right-wingers raised the spectre of rising competition from the east (Japan), distracting us from the real problems. What we should have seen is Japan’s example of 1980’s (crony capitalism and unrestricted big industr) creating the “lost decade” of the 1990’s – yet we repeated it entirely ourselves by buying into the right-wing philosophy, resulting in (so far) in a lost decade of our own.

  31. 32

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    One of my patients didn’t show up…so I have a moment.

    I’ll ask again, since I never got an answer from Bub…

    So, Bub, how does Mitten’s experience as a vulture capitalist prepare him to be the President again?

    He’s evaded the question at least three times – sort of like puddles running away from issues of velociraptors on Noah’s ChrisCraft.

  32. 33

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    This was over at the Great Orange Satan

    NBC-Marist: President Obama leads Florida, Ohio, and Virginia

    Obama: 48 (49)
    Romney: 44 (41)
    Obama: 48 (50)
    Romney: 42 (38)

    Obama: 48 (52)
    Romney: 44 (35)

    The numbers aren’t huge, and there so much time until the election, and we could still lose this – so WORK! WORK! WORK! – but, these numbers are good, and encouraging, and Bub is full of shit.

  33. 34

    rhp6033 spews:

    Liberal Scientist # 32: Sorry, I wasn’t referring to you. You post on occassion, and stay on these boards regardless of the election year status or the results in the past election. Bob, clearly doesn’t qualify in that, which leads me to question what he claims are his “other” credentials.

  34. 35

    rhp6033 spews:

    One of the things we see in “election year” appearances by wingnuts here is their ceaseless predictions of how the trend is going in the GOP favor. We saw that in 2004, 2006, 2008, and 2010 elections. Now we are seeing it again in 2012 – despite the fact that only in 2010 did it have any accuracy.

    I think this strategy is two-fold: (a) discourage the opposition; and (b) make it appear that the popular position is to protect the Republicans. Republicans have long relied upon the week-minded (i.e., those who can’t think for themselves) to tell them how to follow the crowd, and then make it appear that they are a crowd.

  35. 36

    rhp6033 spews:

    Funny thing happening in S. Carolina. Boeing has had to move workers from Everett to Charleston to serve the more advanced work-force on it’s 787-8 production line there (aircraft electritions, avionics, quality control, etc.). These guys aren’t giving up their union contract rights, and Boeing can’t force them to do so.

    I’m wondering if this isn’t having an effect on the politics of S. Carolina. Polling won’t show this up very well – these people are too new to the state to be “likely voters”. They may not appear on the polls at all, until election day.

  36. 38

    rhp6033 spews:

    I’ve got to leave this board for a while, so don’t let Bob or anyone else say they “drove me off” of “didn’t respond” to subsequent posts.

    If everything goes well tonight, I will have exported a couple hundred-million dollars worth of American-assembled product overseas. I get paid peanuts in comparison, but it’s nice to know that I’ve played my small part in helping to build up America’s manufacturing base (and those who build the products at every level).

  37. 39

    Steve spews:

    What Bob doesn’t want to talk about is that his vision for America is the end of democracy. Some American citizens are more acquainted with his vision than others. Take the good folk of Benton Harbor, Michigan. They have lost the right to vote for local representative government. Rather, they are now ruled by the iron fist of global corporatism.

    Benton Harbor is one of the Michigan cities and towns that are now ruled by an Emergency Manager appointed by their Republican governor. To put it in a nutshell, a global corporation, Whirlpool, closed their Benton Harbor plant, shipped the job to Mexico, and then had the audacity to steal the pride of their town, a beautiful public waterfront park. Now look at it.


    The PGA Senior Golf Championship is being held in Benton Harbor this weekend. The citizens of Benton Harbor no longer have the right to vote for local representative government. The citizens of Benton Harbor no longer have factory jobs, Those jobs were shipped to foreigners. Bye the bye, Bob calls me a bigot for using that word “foreigner” in this context. The citizens of Benton Harbor no longer have park, having been sold dirt cheap to a buddy of their Emergency Manager. What the citizens of Benton Harbor do have are minimum wage jobs scrubbing floors and changing bedsheets soiled by the the rich at a fancy golf resort for the rich. But they’re not finished with the likes of Benton Harbor yet, as the Republicans are eagerly trying to trash the minimum wage laws too.

    That is the Republican vision for America. And Bob fucks goats.

  38. 40

    dorky dorkman spews:

    re 38: There is a great deal of satisfaction in the performance of essential tasks. Years ago as a fish-processor in Alaska it occurred to me that although this was a humble position, I was an important cog in feeding the world.

  39. 41

    dorky dorkman spews:

    As far as ‘Bob’ is concerned, since the pince-nez, look-down-your-nose, faux intellectual style a la WF Buckley jr didn’t work, we may be treated to another dose of the mindless, rooster-like aggressive blatherings of Pud or the Troll.

  40. 43

    max with the long and short game from hell spews:

    still waiting for Lib Lab Tech to tell us what union he belongs to…

  41. 45

    max with the long and short game from hell spews:

    How is a “community organizer”(insert laughter here) qualified to be president Lib Lab Tech?

  42. 46

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @6 Most people don’t remember Romney as a governor because he doesn’t talk about it. Maybe he doesn’t want voters thinking about the fact his signature gubernatorial achievement was enacting the nation’s first Obamacare legislation.

  43. 47

    No Time for Fascists spews:

    Red state folks are also buying different stuff than the blue state crowd.
    Red states spend 39% more on home improvement, and 16% more on video games, toys and hobbies. Meanwhile, blue states spend 39% more on travel and vacations, and 11% more on books, music and movies.
    “Based on the numbers we saw, consumers who live in red states are homebodies — spending more money on things they can do around the house: home improvement, toys and video games to play at home,” he says. “While consumers who live in blue states spend more on things that take them away from home and get them out and about, [like] travel and vacations, movies and event tickets.”

    Could you infer that red staters want to cocoon themselves, wall out the world and the outsiders and exposure to the new and different,
    while blue staters are more interested in other people and other places and other ideas?

  44. 48

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @45 He seems to know what he’s doing. Apart from becoming the first black to get himself elected to the White House, he’s pulled off the turnaround of the worst economy since the 1930s, winding down two wars his predecessor started and couldn’t finish, hunting down and killing Osama bin Laden, and enacted health care reform legislation that previous presidents couldn’t get done for 50 years. Not too shabby for a lowly “community organizer.”

  45. 49

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Any list of Obama’s achievements embarrasses max mini-dick and his ilk, so they’ll deny any of that stuff happened.

  46. 51

    max with the long and short game from hell spews:

    Ah yes, here we have goebbels rabbit projecting again….

    An your life is so accomplished that its come down posting 100 times a day on a blog……if I ever get that pathetic, just shoot me.

  47. 52

    max with the long and short game from hell spews:


    Excellent steve….great news..

    Of course, those running HA decided against doing a thread on her…..nice.

  48. 53

    rhp6033 spews:

    (Online again temporarily):

    # 47: “…Could you infer that red staters want to cocoon themselves, wall out the world and the outsiders and exposure to the new and different, while blue staters are more interested in other people and other places and other ideas?”

    Perhaps. But another explanation deals withs disparity of discretionary income, and available time. Red state people tend to have almost all their net worth invested in their homes and hobbies. In lots of red states, you see one lot with the parents home and a mobile (“manufactured” home placed out back. Any increase in net worth of the household would be in do-it-yourself home improvements.

    Recreational activities and travel are limited to where they can drive and where they can camp or boat. They are trading a one-time investment in camping trailers or boats or guns for what they expect to be a lifetime of vacations hunting, fishing, and boat-skiing, all done “on the cheap” (i.e., no moorage fees, etc.). If they manage to shoot a deer, then they can bring home enough meat to offset the cost of the vacation.

    They are operating on the expectation that whatever income they have now could be gone in tomorrow, and they won’t have discretionary inccome for other travel or hobbies. Which, if you live in a “right-to-work” state, is probably not far from the truth. If they get to the point in retirement where they can take a Disney World vacation, a Carribean cruise, or a Hawaii vacation, it’s considered a once-in-a-lifetime achievement. That, of course, is the Republican idea of the ideal American working conditions – except for the existence of the boat, the vacations, etc.

    What’s unclear is what is the cause and what is the effect – does an insular mind-set produce local vacations, or do local vacations consist result in an insular mind-set? I would suspect a bit of both.

  49. 54

    Steve spews:

    @52 “Of course, those running HA decided against doing a thread on her…..nice.”

    Yeah, I recall my distilling Goldy’s response to me down to, “This is a political blog where weekly Bible bashing is appropriate and the truly remarkable story of Rachel Beckwith isn’t”.

  50. 55

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    still waiting for Lib Lab Tech to tell us what union he belongs to…

    sorry, missed that.

    I’m a doctor, and as far as I’m aware, the Supreme Court has disallowed us from forming unions as a matter of antitrust.

    More and more MDs are in a salaried situation, employees, like with Group Health or Kaiser, and that model seems much more amenable to unionization, though I still think it’s not allowed. I did hear something about SEIU organizing docs, but haven’t pursued it. I’m self-employed so wouldn’t likely apply to me.

    I’ve looked into the IWW, the fabled Wobblies, but you can’t join them if you employ others.

    So…I’m not in a union. My views were formed as a child and grandchild of union members – sheet metal workers and teamsters, dating back to the 1920s. I learned at a very early age NEVER EVER to cross a picket line, and I never have.

    I also support unions because I’m clear thinking and empathetic, and feel that a strong and empowered middle class, which depends on a strong union movement, is essential to our society.

    So, hope that answers your question, asshole.

  51. 56

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    How is a “community organizer”(insert laughter here) qualified to be president Lib Lab Tech?

    I asked bub for a positive vision advocating for Rmoney based on his vulture capitalism past. Not too much to ask.

    In response to your rather stale Palin-retread (pathetic!) joke, I’d say that he’s proved that already. Constitutional law professor, check. Community organizer, check. State senator, check. US Senator, check.

    What’s the problem, can’t read?

    Why not discuss Mittens’ record as governor? As vulture capitalist? Worried that it won’t portray the robot in a good light? Like I said above, looking at Mittens’ record, you get VULTURE! MASSACHUSETTS! MORMON!!! That’s not really going to fire up your troops, now, is it?

  52. 57

    Steve spews:

    Since this is an open thread, what the hell.

    Thirty years ago a friend and I were joined with another two-some at Shoreline Golf Course in Mountain View, CA. One of these guys was huge but he really couldn’t drive the ball very far. Back then I hit the ball a mile and the guy was starting to get really frustrated being outdriven by 30-40 yards on every hole. Then on the back nine I really creamed one and nearly drove the green on a Par 4 and the guy bursts out, “You fucking nigger!” Now my friend and I are both white and neither one of us is exactly keen on racism, but I have to tell you the truth, we nearly fucking died laughing at him. We were truly rolling all over the tee and couldn’t stop. I learned that day, that if you want to fuck with the mind of a racist, you laugh at them.

    To this day when my friend or I hit a long drive we might hear the other whisper, “You fucking nigger!”. And then we’re rolling on the tee all over again.

    Hey, Bob, crawl out from your damned rock and call me a racist, you stupid goatfucker.

  53. 58

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Looking at comments 45-51, we see trollery in a nutshell.
    -Max the ass throws out a snide Palin-retread taunt.
    -Roger smacks him upside the head with a well reasoned and compelling answer.
    -Max changes the subject.

    As I’ve said before, this is the best you’ve got?

  54. 59

    Steve spews:

    It looks like Bob has left the thread already. He usually lasts a little longer. Looking at the way he’s trending, I’d say he’ll likely leave us for good soon.

  55. 60

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    I’m still waiting for Bub, or Max, or any of our trolls to explain in detail how Mitt’s history with BAIN is a compelling qualification to be President of the United States.


  56. 61

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Why do Ken Hutcherson hate teh GAYZ so much?

    One has to wonder about the width of his stance.

    Asshole. (Though according to the story, he’s fleecing fellow hateful bigots out of $29.95 each, leaving them less money with which to do harm, like donate to Republicans.)

  57. 62

    Steve spews:

    I started to get the impression we might all be fucked about 15 years ago when a contractor called me to come take a look at a Square-D unit substation transformer that had been delivered to a Microsoft project. It didn’t have a UL label on it, which is a real fucking problem thanks to those goddamned commie-fascist regulations that stifle good old-fashioned American capitalism. But what had myself and the America-hating union electricians I was with really scratching our heads was the label that it did have, which read “Made in Mexico”.

    So here we had a one ton, 12,470 volt transformer which, if it isn’t perfectly wound under very exacting QC measures, could fucking blow up. Hmm. Have any of you ever played a “Made in Mexico” Fender Strat and noticed how, heh, well wound those single-coil pickups are?

    Go for it, Bob, call me a foreigner-hating bigot again, you clueless goatfucker.

  58. 66

    Steve spews:

    @64 I inherited a Korean-made Tokai ES-335 clone and it’s really nice. I don’t even need to change the pickups. I understand that it’s not the crap-shoot with Korean guitars anymore that it is now with those made in Mexico and China. Even if you find a good one, the guitars from Mexico and China still need to have the pickups and pots swapped out. Tokai got it’s reputation by selling exact Fender and Gibson clones that were better than the originals made in America and for a third of the price. So Gibson sued their ass off. The pre-lawsuit Tokai’s are supposed to be especially good guitars.

  59. 67

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:


    ……if I ever get that pathetic, just shoot me.

    I’d say ‘OK’, but that would be wrong. We leftists have a firm grasp of morality. How ’bout you just go away. Far, far away. m’K?

  60. 68

    Steve spews:

    @64 Looking at that link, I don’t know about Fender. Perhaps their Korean guitars are a crap-shoot. All of the complaints I had read on Gearslutz over the years seemed to be about the ones from Mexico.

  61. 69

    Michael spews:

    More and more MDs are in a salaried situation, employees, like with Group Health or Kaiser, and that model seems much more amenable to unionization, though I still think it’s not allowed.

    I’m a member of Group Health and I dig it. The docs actually take their time and listen to you.

  62. 70

    Bob spews:

    @ 27

    So, I’m not allowed to leave? Or if I return on 5/24 I’m supposed to pick up on a 5/22 thread? Really?

    Regarding Romney’s venture capital past, I guess I would say that he had some successes and some failures running Bain. You guys cherry-pick the failures and totally ignore the Staples examplese, and you expect me to play along?

    Sorry. Running a corporation whose intent is to make money for its shareholders and running the country are two different things. But they each require executive experience and skill. Romney was successful more often than not.

    More Americans trust Romney with the economy than trust Obama, and the economy is still the biggest issue to a majority of Americans. What was the last private sector job Obama held? How does that lack of experience in the private sector help Obama in his role as job creator, guys?

    Oh, one for Michael:

    There’s your twelve point spread. Don’t miss the Nate Silver commentary.

    Wisconsin’s in play. Thanks, unions!

  63. 73

    dorky dorkman spews:

    Bob’s philosophy in a nutshell: “I’m trying to be polite about this, but everything you know is wrong.”

  64. 74

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    I guess I would say that he had some successes and some failures running Bain.

    Well, there’s a compelling reationale for making him President of the United States.

    Running a corporation whose intent is to make money for its shareholders and running the country are two different things.

    Yes, indeedy. I’m not sure I’d call a venture capital firm a ‘corporation’ in the traditional sense – or only as much as a virus is a ‘life form’ – as the virus exists soley to replicate itself by parasitizing other, more integrated and complete organisms, just a take-over specialty fund preys on corporations that actually produce something.

    totally ignore the Staples examplese

    So Romney should be President of the United States because…um, well because…STAPLES!!
    *eye roll*

  65. 75

    Bob spews:

    @ 74

    Keep on with the cherry-picking. You have Obama increasingly at odds with the center of his own party by continually bashing wealth creation. He’s getting plenty of pushback because an awful lot of revenue flows to various levels of government because of it.

    CBS News today reported that the Bain assault isn’t working. In fact, it just gives Romney more chances to highlight the fact that he has private sector experience and Obama does not.

    So, keep it up. It’s the economy, and you play right into Romney’s efforts to keep the dialogue about the economy.

    Walker up 12 over Barrett. Obama rapidly shifting resources to WI to try to plug the hole in the dam. Too little, too late.

    Thanks, unions!

  66. 76

    Steve spews:

    “But they each require executive experience and skill.”

    I hate to be the one to tell you this Bob, but our president now has 3 1/2 years of experience running this country and has done a damn fine job. Your candidate has absolutely no experience whatsofuckingever running a country and when your glorified “Job Creator” had a shot at running a state, he came in 47th out of 50 at what he’s fucking supposed to do best, which is to create fucking jobs.

    Go peddle your bullshit somewhere else.

  67. 77

    Bob spews:

    @ 76

    You’re right, Doctor Steve. Obama does have that experience…….now.

    Apparently by your reckoning we should pick the least experienced candidate because you will find something disqualifying about each level of proficiency demonstrated by an experienced one.
    Let’s put the mail room guy in the penthouse office, because the CEO made a bad call on a product rollout once.

    Wise, sage thoughts from Doctor Steve.

  68. 78

    Steve spews:

    Of course, given what Republicans intend to do to this country, maybe a corporate raider like Mitt really is your ideal candidate. Because if job creation is your measure, you could have done a hell of a lot better than Romney. Hell, you would have nominated Herman Cain or Donald Trump. And we all know what great presidents they would have been.

  69. 80

    Bob spews:

    @ 78

    My dream ticket would have been Mitch Daniels/Phil Bredesen.

    Like I said, a dream.

    GOP’s Herman Cain is as ridiculous as Mike Gravel and Al Sharpton were.

  70. 81

    Steve spews:

    @77 Gawd, that was pathetic, although it at least elicited a laugh. I asked my friend Puddy to give you some advice, Bob, which he kindly did. He’s a good man that way. You really should listen to him. He knows how to play this game. You don’t.

  71. 82

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Keep on with the cherry-picking.

    You provided almost nothing to cherry pick. I asked for a compelling argument pro Romney, based on Bain experience, and I got whining about nobady pays attention to STAPLES!!

    Pretty weak gruel.

  72. 83

    Steve spews:

    Say, Bob, you really should wait to address me as Doctor, at least until I’ve finish my doctoral thesis on the goatfucking habits of wingnut trolls.

    And speaking of doctors, Doctor Lib Sci, the slut who occasionally wears a hoodie, inquired about your three year residency. Just so you know, we all know why you’ve ignored him.

  73. 84

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Obama does have that experience…….now.

    …and ‘now’ would be when the election is.

  74. 85

    Bob spews:

    @ 84

    So Obama’s lack of experience was dismissed by your side in 2008. Now that he’s got some, it’s your selling point.

    Got it.

  75. 86

    Steve spews:

    Gawd, Bob equates Herman Cain to Senator Mike Gravel.

    Senator Gravel enlisted in the U.S. Army (1951-54) and served as special adjutant in the Communication Intelligence Services and as a Special Agent in the Counter Intelligence Corps. He received a B.S. in Economics from Columbia University, New York City, and holds four honorary degrees in law and public affairs.

    Mike Gravel served in the Alaska House of Representatives from 1963-66, and as Speaker from 1965-66. He then represented Alaska in the U.S. Senate from 1969-81. He served on the Finance, Interior, and Environmental and Public Works committees, chairing the Energy, Water Resources, Buildings and Grounds, and Environmental Pollution subcommittees.

    In 1971, he waged a successful one-man filibuster for five months that forced the Nixon administration to cut a deal, effectively ending the draft in the United States. He is most prominently known for his release of the Pentagon Papers, the secret official study that revealed the lies and manipulations of successive U.S. administrations that misled the country into the Vietnam War. After the New York Times published portions of the leaked study, the Nixon administration moved to block any further publication of information and to punish any newspaper publisher who revealed the contents.

    From the floor of the senate, Gravel (a junior senator at the time) insisted that his constituents had a right to know the truth behind the war and proceeded to read 4,100 pages of the 7,000 page document into the senate record.

    Bob, you’re a real dickhead. You do know that, don’t you?

  76. 87

    Steve spews:

    @85 “Now that he’s got some, it’s your selling point.”

    You might try explaining how it is that Mitt’s very dubious record of job creation is your only selling point you have for him, and yet when it comes to Herman Cain, who has most certainly created jobs, you dismiss him as being unqualified. Other than skin color, which we already know to be important to you, what’s the diff?

  77. 88

    rhp6033 spews:

    I’m back, temporarily. I’m waiting for TSA forms for customs clearance while at the airfield. As soon as I get them I’m back offline for a few hours.

    Even at Baine, Romeny’s experience doesn’t work well. He’s said he was the guy who raised the money, and other people actually did the work of running/dismantling the companies. I’m not sure if that was an admission or an attempt to deflect himself from the expected criticism of Baine’s record.

    But as for Staples, I’m not sure that’s anything for Romney to brag about. (a) In the first place, it brings into question exactly what role he played in the Staples re-organization. (b) It also opens the issue of Staples as a big-box discounter who puts Mom & Pop office supply outfits out of buisiness, regardless of how well they performed in serving their customers (nobody else could match the quantity discounts Staples could extort from the suppliers). (c) Then you have experienced office equipment salesmen replaced by part-times working minimum wage (or slightly above that) who only man the registers at the front of the store, who’s main job is to sell cell phone plans and warranty contacts, and if you ask them a question they start reading the back of the box because they don’t know anything about the product. (c) It the issue of Baine getting out of the business of “building” companies like Staples because it takes too long and limits their profits, they prefer to buy, load up on debt, take their profts/fees, then dismantle, and get out quickly.

  78. 89

    rhp6033 spews:

    So the in looking at my preceeding post, we are once again forced to ask: what art of the Staples story indicates that it supports Romney’s qualifications for being President?

  79. 93

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @75 What wealth did Rmoney create for the tens of thousands of workers Bain laid off? Why is it that workers simply don’t count in the minds of people like you?

  80. 94

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ 90

    How about the part where, after he took over the company, the product went totally to shit and became nearly inedible, resulting in 2/3 of the stores closing within 3 years while he increased his salary and bonus structure by nearly 700%.

  81. 95

    rhp6033 spews:

    Hey, I’m not obtuse to the real world. I know that many Presidents haven’t had much experience for the job at the time. Part of the problem is that the experience required to GET the job, and to PERFORM the job, are two seperat things.

    As for performing the job well, I think vision, moral compass, judgement, and evaluating people are the biggest qualifications for the job. In these, the President has a big advantage. He isn’t just concerned about how he will look to history, he’s looking at making the country better for ALL Americans, not just a few. Romney shows little inclination toward looking out for the average American.

    Sometimes we make the mistake of trying to match a person who is light on the executive qualifications with someone who has more experience, with the idea that as a team they will work well together. We also do the same thing in the hopes that better geogrpahic distribution will increase his chance of winning an election. But that didn’t work with (a) Cheney and George W. Bush (Cheney virtually ran the presidency, which was a disaster in many ways); (b) with Kennedy and Johnson (Johnson was a great implementer of the Great Society and Civil Rights legislation, but allowed the military to run roughshod of him over Vietnam); and (c) even Garner, first V.P. of Roosevelt (Garner makes the most avid tea-party politician seem socialist in comparison, which takes a bit of work to pull off).

  82. 96

    Steve spews:

    @91 Yeah, but Newt had the best takedowns of Mitt. Chris Matthews went through Newt’s Greatest Hits with him this afternoon. He had some real zingers.

  83. 97


    The other day I quoted some political scientist who’s had a considerable track record calling White House elections.

    About 2008 he said the Democrats could pick a name out of the phone book and they would have won. Barack was in the right place at the right time with the ambition and drive to take it over the finish line in spite any shortcomings on his part.

    The professor believes Obama will win handily in November but he made that call 9 months ago and things have changed. It’ll be close either way. No doubt.

  84. 98

    Steve spews:

    @93 “Why is it that workers simply don’t count in the minds of people like you?”

    An utter lack of empathy. Both Bob and Mitt haven’t a drop. It’s a qualification for the job Mitt seeks and he just doesn’t have it.

    They should have gone with Herman. At least he’s got the “mirth” thing going for him. And Herman is human. Mitt? I’m not so sure. I’ve heard he might be a unicorn.

  85. 100

    Steve spews:

    @97 It’s quite possible that Mitt will win and the Republicans will retain the house and win the senate. For a glimpse of what will come if that happens, refer to my post @39 decribing the end of representative government for the residents of Benton Harbor, Michigan. If dictatotial Emergency Managers are what’s good the cities and towns of Michigan, why not the states and the entire nation next? As with theoretical physics, follow the logic and see where it goes.

  86. 101

    Bob spews:

    @ 97

    The fact that ANY of the top-tier Dems could have beaten McCain in ’08 was why the primary between Obama and HRC was so contentious. That primary was actually the general. Both candidates’ internal polling told them that they would beat McCain in November if they made it to the nomination.

    OK, so there were a few other reasons for a contentious primary, but the upshot was that the Dem survivor would be president, and both of the Dem finalists knew it.

  87. 103

    Bob spews:

    Pelosi, today:

    Now House Dems want to extend the 2003 tax cuts for everyone making less than $1,000,000 per year.

    In other words, Taxmageddon isn’t playing well for the Dems, and they know they can’t be responsible for raising taxes on everyone, which CBO says will tank the economy – they know they’ll get the blame. And yet they need that class warfare angle to hammer Romney.

    So, not to be serious about the revenue they’ll get but to avoid being blamed for across-the-board tax increases, they’ve modified their demands. It will be fiscally useless, but they get to keep the hammer.

    If I were a cynic, I would suggest Pelosi is admitting that tax increases are bad for the economy. I’m sure that’s not it. It’s for the political ploy. It’s all she’s got left.

  88. 104


    Republicans run for office always complaining how bad government is.

    Then they win office and prove it.

    No one in their right mind should vote for a Republican.

  89. 105


    That an Rmoney or a Rob McKenna will win elections after the Walkers, Kasichs, Snyders, Scotts and Christies have had their way just goes to prove that most people have given up that their lives will get any better by paying any mind to politics.

  90. 106

    Bob spews:

    @ 104

    You’re right. GOP should run for office and claim they’ll stop the oceans from rising if they win. ’cause empty, soaring platitudes is what people want.

  91. 107

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 62: Originally Boeing had outsourced it’s wiring harnesses to an outfit in Texas, who sub-contracted them to an outfit in Mexico. The harnesses came back completly wrong – the guage was wrong, the material was wrong, and even the color-coded wiring was wrong. Yet it all had inspection stamps, supposedly from the Texas outfit’s FAA designated inspector.

    The wiring shop had been dismantled by Boeing, which was a shame because it was a really good organization. The last time I saw the factory floor, they had re-installed a form of the wiring shop all down the production line, as wiring harnesses were being constructed for each airplane by Boeing employees.

    Some lessons have to be re-learned again from time-to-time, I guess.

    By the way, on an unrelated matter – I spoke with some electronics industry folks on an unrelated trade issues about a month ago, He said the electronics industry across the border within Mexico was rebounding, and a lot of electronics circuit boards are beig printed there.

  92. 108

    Bob spews:

    @ 105

    And I thought it would prove that voters prefer Republicans to Democrats. You must have a butterfly ballot.

  93. 109

    rhp6033 spews:

    Okay, TSA docs issued, cargo is being prepared for loading. I’m off the boards (again) for the night. Have fun.

  94. 110

    Steve spews:

    Asswipe @102, the residents of Benton Harbor and other cities and towns no longer have the right to vote for local representative goverment. A Republican governor took that right away from them. You may be in fucking denial about it, but that’s what fucking happened. Own it, asshole.

    You can go to fucking hell.

  95. 111

    Steve spews:

    @108 And here I thought it was gullible voters swallowing the lies Republicans tell them and then voting against their own self interests.

  96. 112

    Steve spews:

    Hell, Walker not only lied to the people of Wisconsin, he apparently lied to the Congress too.

  97. 113

    Steve spews:

    So, Bob, other than his being black and you being a racist, what was your problem with job creator Herman Cain?

  98. 114

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    102. Bob spews:

    @ 100

    Why don’t we just cut to the chase and open the Book of Revelations instead?


    That’s your retort for a valid criticism of the DEEPY undemocratic (small d) and VERY dangerous precedents taking place in Michigan regarding representative self government. Republicans have ridden roughshod over democracy, with the culmination being an Orwellian denial of tens of thousand of petition signatures because the font size on the face sheet was allegedly wrong.

    You Republicans are a sick bunch of motherfuckers. and you have the temerity to call stave ‘idiot’.


  99. 115

    Steve spews:

    Why does Colin Powell hate America?

    During an interview with Powell on his Fox News show, Hannity said that he finds Obama to be “one of the most divisive figures in — that I’ve witnessed in politics today.”

    Powell responded: “[T]hat’s a term that’s being used rather freely. I don’t think he’s that divisive an issue.” Powell then asked, “What could have been more divisive than, when President Obama was inaugurated, for a number of Republicans, friends of mine, and a number of commentators to say, ‘We’re going to destroy him. We’re going to destroy him’?

    Hannity replied: “I was one of his harshest critics. I wasn’t out to destroy him.” Hannity also asserted: “Well, I was critical about Bill Ayers and Reverend Wright.” Powell responded: “I don’t know Bill Ayers from the man in the moon. Bill Ayers and Reverend Wright are just passing things through [Obama’s] life.” Hannity then said that Obama spent “20 years” in Wright’s church, to which Powell responded: “Well, so?”

  100. 116

    Steve spews:

    @114 Apparently Bob doesn’t want to talk about how Republicans have been taking away American’s right to vote for local representative government. Just as bad, they’re trying their damnest to make sure that up to 5 million blacks, latinos, young people and the elderly won’t have the right to vote for anything come November. I’m pretty sure he’ll never talk about that either.

  101. 117

    Bob spews:

    @ 111

    Funny. That’s how I would describe a majority of ’08 Obama voters. Seems the kiddie voters, the ones who will be worse affected by what Obama has wrought, are his biggest supporters. P.T. Barnum smirks.

    @ 114, 116

    From what I understand, democratically (small d) elected representatives altered law and a democratically elected governor signed it. That’s representative democracy. They don’t like it in Benton Harbor? They can cause their fellow Michiganites to see their plight and elect different representatives. You know, like Dems are trying to do in WI.

    Although, that isn’t working out so well for you guys, is it? Elections have consequences. What a concept.

    Efforts are being made to change it by referendum or to have it voided as unconstitutional. Those efforts should proceed, certainly.

    From a distance, it looks like the cleanup of a failed government system. Things that cannot go on forever, don’t.

    Weren’t you guys the ones that applauded Pelosi when she so famously stated, ‘We won the election. We wrote the bill.’? A victorious party excluded the other side and passed legislation, which was signed by a same-party executive.

    Sound familiar?

  102. 118

    Steve spews:

    “what Obama has wrought”

    Empty words.

    “That’s representative democracy. They don’t like it in Benton Harbor?”

    That’s a rather cavilier attitude to have when American citizens are losing the right to vote for local representative government. Is that what Republicans ran on in Michigan? “We’re going to take away your right to vote?” No, it isn’t, Bob. That’s kind of an important thing to leave out of their platform, don’t you think?

    “Elections have consequences.”

    What, Americans losing the right to vote? I can see why Republicans didn’t tell anybody that that was what they were going to do.

    You lying fascists are all alike. Fuck you, Bob.

  103. 119

    Bob spews:

    @ 118

    Are you sure that citizens can no longer vote for local representatives?

    Or do those representatives, while still serving and up for renewal by citizen ballot, simply no longer have authority because of the emergency declaration?

    Because, Doctor Steve, there is a difference.

    I am having difficulty finding something that says elections are cancelled or something horrific like that. Help me out here, please.

  104. 120

    Steve spews:

    ‘We won the election. We wrote the bill.’

    That’s one strange sense of equivalency you have, Bob. When Domocrats use a majority to take away your right to vote, you just might actually have something to whine about.

  105. 121

    Bob spews:

    @ 118

    Gee, Doctor Steve, here’s a story about election results in Benton Harbor:

    Looks like about 1350 people out of a town population of 10000 or so voted.

    The emergency powers were invoked three months before this election.

    So, Doctor Steve (and Lib Sci if you are listening), if people lost the right to vote, how come 1350+ of them still got together and elected a mayor?

    Doctor Steve?

    Doctor Steve?

  106. 123

    Michael spews:

    Lions and tigers and bears… Well maybe just a tiger. But still, WTF?

    Tiger on the prowl between Tacoma, Puyallup

    Published: 05/24/12 3:34 pm | Updated: 05/24/12 4:58 pm

    A Bengal tiger is on the loose near River Road in Puyallup, Pierce County Sheriff’s Department spokesman Ed Troyer said this afternoon. Crews are responding to River Road near Gay Road.

    Troyer said that law enforcement and animal control were dispatched after receiving two calls from people who saw the animal.

    Read more here:

  107. 124

    Steve spews:

    When citizen’s elected representatives are stripped of authority and replaced by dictatorial rule, local representative goverment no longer exists, Bob. But apparently you’re good with that? Unless it happens to you. Then you’d be birthing a horned goat.

  108. 125

    Bob spews:

    @ 120

    Doctor Steve, here’s a pretty in-depth analysis of that Michigan Law:

    by what looks like a group definitely not right-wing.

    I couldn’t find anything about cancelled elections or citizens losing their right to vote, Doctor Steve.

    Maybe I missed something. I dunno. Is there a Doctor Steve in the house?

  109. 126

    Bob spews:


    I take it you are unable to bring yourself to agree that citizens can vote just like they always do.

    Moving the goalposts yet again, Doctor Steve. I guess that’s easier than a simple acknowledgement that your claim of lost voting rights, made repeatedly upthread, was incorrect.

    It’s the daily Yabut.

  110. 127

    Bob spews:

    Doctor Steve, when a school system fails and is taken over, and elected School Board members lose their ability to do more damage to the kids, are those kids and their parents deprived of their rights to continue to subsist in a failed school system?

    Or is a takeover necessary because all other measures have failed, and the kids come first, Doctor Steve?

    I’m just wondering if it’s a crime against democracy when it happens in a town of 10,000 but an event necessary to right a decades-long wrong when it happens in a school district of tens of thousands of students.

    Help me out, Doctor Steve.

  111. 128

    Steve spews:

    From your own link, Bob.

    PA 4 is specific in giving emergency
    managers complete authority over all of the
    operations of the local government, including assigning
    to the emergency manager all of the power and
    authority of elected or appointed boards, commissions,
    authorities, and other entities that are components
    of the local government.

    The government that the citizens of Benton Harbor elected no longer exists in any meaningful form, Bob. But go ahead and parse words as Americans lose their freedoms and can only watch as Republicans practically give away a town’s assets to their cronies as happened with Benton Harbor’s park.

  112. 129

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Doctor Steve, here’s a pretty in-depth analysis of that Michigan Law:

    Unclear why you posted this link – is like a puddylink – truthiness? linkiness?

    You purport that it’s from “what looks like a group definitely not right-wing.”


    Here is where the board of directors are affiliated:

    Eugene A. Gargaro,
    Jr. Joseph R. Angileri
    Jeffrey D. Bergeron
    Ernst & Young LLP
    Michael G. Bickers
    PNC Financial Services Group
    Beth Chappell
    Detroit Economic Club
    Rick DiBartolomeo
    Terence M. Donnelly
    Dickinson Wright PLLC
    Randall W. Eberts
    W. E. Upjohn Institute
    David O. Egner
    Hudson-Webber Foundation
    Laura Fournier
    Jeffrey D. Bergeron
    Manoogian Foundation
    John J. Gasparovic
    BorgWarner Inc.
    Ingrid A. Gregg
    Earhart Foundation
    Marybeth S. Howe
    Wells Fargo Bank
    Nick A. Khouri
    DTE Energy Company
    Daniel T. Lis
    Kelly Services, Inc.
    Sarah L. McClelland
    JPMorgan Chase & Co.
    Aleksandra A. Miziolek
    Dykema Gossett PLLC
    Cathleen H. Nash
    Citizens Bank
    Paul R. Obermeyer
    Comerica Incorporated
    Kevin Prokop
    Rockbridge Growth Equity, LLC
    Lynda Rossi
    Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan
    Jerry E. Rush
    Meritor, Inc.
    Michael A. Semanco
    Hennessey Capital LLC
    Amanda Van Dusen Miller,
    Canfield, Paddock and
    Stone, PLC

    Kent J. Vana

    Banks, accounting firms, lawyers, corporations. A few foundations, one of which is dedicated to “Free Market Solutions” on its mission statement.
    Not a single community non-profit, not a single union. (Although, admitttedly, one of the board of trustees is listed as ‘AFL-CIO’)

    A real representative group.

  113. 130

    Steve spews:

    You’re such a good little fascist tool, Bob. I imagine your masters pat you on the head quite often.

  114. 131

    Bob spews:

    Doctor Steve, Lib Sci, and others who are apoplectic about Benton Harbor:

    Let me clue you in on what should have been obvious to you. It’s not about Benton Harbor. It’s not about a town of 10,000 which was in such deep shit that something drastic was necessary and the only real fight was about the method that would be used.

    It’s about Detroit.

    Think about it.

    It’s about a huge city that has shrunk by 60% since 1950. It’s about obligations to union retirees and non-union retirees far, far, far beyond the abilities of that city to ever meet them, given current demographic reality.

    The city, literally:

    is going dark.

    This will be an ugly, violent, sad episode in the history of our country when it happens.

    Think about this: A group of mostly white guys and girls, democratically elected at the state level, will have to forcibly take over the affairs of a largely black city, because circumstances have caused that city to fail. There is no way to make that pretty. People in distress will be thrown into worse temporary distress because things that cannot go on forever, don’t. Think National Guard. Think citizen militias. Scares the shit out of me because of what it will do to the country. And I’ve never even seen Detroit. Never been close to there.

    Rachel Maddow didn’t cover Benton Harbor because of Benton Harbor. It was her shot across the bow for when it’s Detroit’s turn.

    It will be huge numbers of unions against Michigan’s state-level elected officials.

    It will make people forget all about Madison, WI.

    You’re being used as propagandists for the upcoming battle over Detroit. It’s how supposedly sage people like Doctor Steve get themselves into the pickle of claiming that citizens have lost their right to vote. At some point it stopped becoming about the facts of the small town and it started becoming – falsely – about citizens being stripped of their rights to vote.

    And Rachel smiles.

  115. 132

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    So, Bub, when a group of Michiganders collected >200000 signatures to put an initiative to overturn the Emergency Manager law, their efforts were rejected as invalid:

    The Michigan Board of State Canvassers today rejected a petition drive that would have put the state’s emergency manager law on the November ballot. The board’s staff had reported (pdf) that the petitioners had collected enough signatures, and recommended (pdf) that the board deny a challenge on the basis that the petition’s type size might be too small.

    That challenge came from a project living inside the same Republican consulting firm with a partner on the board. Also on the four member board was a Democrat whose labor union had worked to collect signatures. In the end, the board voted two-two, on party lines, meaning the petitions were toast. They had been signed by more than 200,000 Michigan voters.

    The font size was too small.

    But wait…

    As Hesiod points in the comments at Rachel Maddow’s blog: [cont’d.]


    The statutory provision relied upon by the Republican Members of the State Board of Canvassers was MCL 168.482.

    But, there is ample precedent in Michigan law that says what they did villated their duties under the law. A recent Michigan Court of Appeals decision — which is binding law in Michigan — stated:

    “It is well established by both statute and case law that petitions need only substantially conform to the statutory requirements. MCL 168.544d (petitions shall be on forms that are “substantially as provided in sections 482 …”); see also Charter Twp of Bloomfield v Oakland Co Clerk, 253 Mich App 1, 22-23, 654 NW2d 610 (2002). In Newsome v Bd of State Canvassers, 69 Mich App 725, 729, 245 N.W.2d 374 (1976), this Court held that “[c]onstitutional and statutory initiative and referendum provisions should be liberally construed to effectuate their purposes, to facilitate rather than hamper the exercise by the people of these reserved rights.” Id., citing Kuhn v Dep’t of Treasury, 384 Mich 378, 183 NW2d 796 (1971). In Settles v Detroit City Clerk, 169 Mich App 797, 802-803, 427 NW2d 188 (1988), this Court reaffirmed the general rule that “all doubts as to technical deficiencies or failure to comply with the exact letter of procedural requirements in petitions … are resolved in favor of permitting the people to vote and express a choice on any proposal subject to election.” Thus, even if the additional language in the “ introduction” on the back of the petition could be considered a defect, we do not find it a fatal one.” — Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action & Integration v Bd of State Canvassers, 262 Mich App 395, 405-406; 686 NW2d 287 (2004) (Citation format amended).

    The Courts will order the State Bd of Canvassers to approve the petition under this well-established case law.

    Ah, but will Rick Snyder or one of his henchmen suddenly pull another Calvinball move and decide that the courts don’t matter here?

    Why do Republicans hate black people participating in our democracy? Better, why do Republicans hate democracy?

  116. 133

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    You’re being used as propagandists for the upcoming battle over Detroit.

    Appeal to white solidarity?

    Well I call bullshit. We here are democrats, with both small and large D’s.

  117. 134

    Steve spews:

    “Help me out, Doctor Steve.”

    Oh, I’d like to do that, alright, Bob, but not in any way that you’d fucking appreciate. But I’d have a damned good time of it, that’s for sure. Unlike some of my friends here, I know what to do with a goddamned fascist such as yourself.

  118. 135

    Bob spews:

    @ 129 Noted. Scroll down to the trustees, which is a mix, including university types.

    @ 132 Noted. So appeal it. Stupid decisions by partisans at the lower level happen all the time. Appeal it. BTW, while you’re appealing it, that city is getting restored to fiscal health.

    @ 133 OK. Call bullshit. Whatever. But wouldn’t Detroit be a fascinating thread?

  119. 136

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    I would love to meet and talk to a Republican that wasn’t motivated by fear, racism and greed, but rather was animated by a desire to create a more perfect union for all of us, to create a country that was admired rather than feared, that asked “why not” and then did the impossible, that nurtured every one of its children, that educated every one of its citizens, that harnessed the ambitions and talents of every worker and gave them the ability and opportunity to realize their dreams, that was dedicated to justice and tolerance and that celebrated difference rather than exploiting them.

    Yeah, when pigs fly.

  120. 137

    Bob spews:

    @ 134 I see we’ve moved on to physical threats. Do you puff out your chest and make and unmake fists when you type them?

    Doctor Steve, just admit that citizen voting rights were not affected and you were wrong. Jesus. What are you, 12?

  121. 138

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Stupid decisions by partisans at the lower level happen all the time.

    I counter

    If you look back through the minutes of the Board of State Canvassers, you’ll notice almost no split votes on anything. Before today, the board looks not to have divided on any question since August 2010 (pdf). There’s another one in April 2006 (pdf). And back in 2005, before the minutes were posted, the board split along party lines, blocking temporarily a referendum to end some forms of affirmative action.

    This is just one more manifestation of the increasingly shameless efforts by Republicans to eliminate the franchise, to deprive the ‘wrong’ people of the vote. It’s not to be dismissed as a triviality, as you do.

    You are a rather transparent hater of democracy.

  122. 139

    Steve spews:

    @131 Damn, unleash your inner racist, why don’t you?

    Just kidding, Bob. We already knew that you’re a fucking racist.

  123. 140

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    citizen voting rights were not affected

    That is ABSOLUTELY not true.

    Those citizens had their duly elected representatives dismissed. Then, for some salt in their wounds, their 200000 signatures were summarily dismissed because of FUCKING FONT SIZE. Transparent undermining of democratic laws.

  124. 141

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    I grow tired of Whack-a-Mole. I’ve got to go make dinner.

    Somebody call me if Bob ever comes up with a cogent or provocative statement, or provides an answer to my question regarding the compelling argument for Rmoney’s candidacy based on his BAIN experience.

  125. 142

    Steve spews:

    I said I’d help you, Bob, and that you wouldn’t appreciate it. And believe me, you wouldn’t. But talk of violence is you and your stupid fucking Psych 101 projection again. But if you want to go there, I’m the one to talk to, Bob.

  126. 143

    Bob spews:

    @ 139

    You’ve lost, Doctor Steve. You’ve descended into profanity, threats, and taunts. ‘On empty.’

    Anything to avoid admitting you were wrong. What a guy.

  127. 145

    Bob spews:

    @ 140

    Were the elected commissioners dismissed? Or were their powers curtailed? If the former, link, please.

    Offline for at least 2 hours.

  128. 146

    Steve spews:

    Like the fascist troll you are, you declare victory when you have had your ass handed to you, then vainly preen yourself and repeat. We’ve seen it all before, Bob. Your act was old before you even started.

  129. 147


    empty, soaring platitudes is what people want.

    Two wars not paid for, tax cuts that mainly benefit the rich not paid for, an expensive, dishonestly sold prescription drug benefit for seniors not paid for…

    Only three examples of what people got from the last Republican administration.

    I can only imagine what people will get from the next one.

  130. 148

    No Time for Fascists spews:

    bob, You keep missing this question.

    Do you think we should have a strong broad middle class in America, even if, as a consequence, it means that the rich have to become less rich in the process? (Note: I did not say poor, I said LESS rich)

    Most of the progressive here are arguing for policies that they think are better for the middle class. You seem to be fighting against that.

  131. 149

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Why We Need The ACLU

    School assigns student to create a project about an important issue.
    Student creates a project about an important issue and turns it in.
    School suspends student for project about an important issue.
    ACLU lawyers talk to school administrators.
    School erases suspension.

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: This is a pretty common problem. In any given class, there’s bound to be a few kids who are way smarter than the teachers and principal — which is a no-no. That gets you in trouble, as many of us here on HA (no, not you, trolls!) learned when we were young. You’re supposed to hide it, but that’s hard to do, and sometimes it shows — especially when doing school assignments that call for creativity and intelligence. Not having learned the ways of the world yet, this young lady thought she was supposed to give her best effort, not realizing that what was wanted was mediocre work and superior work would get her in trouble. (Some workplaces are like that, too, so this educational philosophy is really intended to prepare students for the work world.) Thank the Great Mother Rabbit Spirit there were ACLU lawyers available to sort this out. (P.S., these school bozos wouldn’t know what a disclaimer is if one shot them between the eyes — oops, bad choice of metaphor, I’m gonna get suspended for that!)

  132. 150

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    *palm slaps forehead*

    Is that what was getting me into trouble?!

    It all makes so much sense now…my life coming into perspective…

  133. 153

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Nominee For Dumbass Of The Year Award (TM)

    Dumb father. Dumb mother. Dumb grandmother. Man, this kid was born with three strikes against him, but all he needs is four brain cells to have more brains than the rest of the family put together.

    “Bristol Palin’s baby-daddy, Levi Johnston, is now penniless and living in his mother’s Alaska home, a source tells Us Weekly. ‘Levi made more than $1 million and squandered it on guns, boats and four-wheelers,’ the source says ….”


    Roger Rabbit Commentary: What a dumbass! I’ll bet he votes Republican, too.

  134. 154

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @150 Yeah. It also explains why you couldn’t get dates. I had this problem, too — i.e., the misfortune of being born smart.

    (It’s even worse for rabbits, especially when humans find out we’re smarter than they are).

    Our trolls don’t know how good they’ve got it. People with mediocre IQs do just fine in this world. See, e.g., the Palin family …

  135. 155

    Steve spews:

    The Republicans have talked for decades about returning control to state and local governments. Now we know what they’ve meant by that. Each Republican governor a Caesar, each city and town ruled by his appointed “Emergency Manager”.

    A global corporation, Whirlpool, closed it’s plant in Benton Harbor and shipped the jobs to Mexico. Then they build a golf resort for the rich and steal the town’s beloved waterfront park from it’s residents and turn it into three golf holes and a fucking parking lot. The give-away to Whirlpool made possible by a lying Republican wannabe Caesar who would rule Michigan’s cities and towns from his throne.

    That’s our fascist bastard troll’s vision of “Democracy”. That’s the bastard’s idea of local government control.

    I say to you, Bob, what I’d say to any two-bit Nazi shithead. Go fuck a goddamned goat, you America-hating asswipe.

  136. 156

    Steve spews:

    It’s kind of cool how Rachel’s story is circulating around Russia, where about half of her donations are coming from now.

  137. 157

    Steve spews:

    Those racist-fascist types like Bob are a particularly foul breed. The last time that type fucked with us they were in another country and we just killed them until they had had enough. I wonder what we’ll do about them this time, now that they’re an enemy from within.

  138. 159

    Bob spews:

    @ 157

    Well, Doctor Steve, when I come to revoke your right to vote you can kill me in response. Just like all those citizens in Benton Harbor should take up arms because the government has cancelled their elections, right, Doctor Steve?

    Clown. You’ve gone from simple inane threats and profanity to talk about taking lives if you don’t get what you want. Go join the OWS crowd and get arrested with Molotov cocktails in your back seat.

  139. 160

    Bob spews:

    Benton Harbor story on NPR’s Morning Edition today. No mention of citizens being deprived of their right to vote, Doctor Steve. You sure you have that correct?

  140. 162

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    From the Chicago Sun-Times, about a year ago, re Benton Harbor:

    Benton Harbor…is a catalogue of the misery of the industrial Midwest. It was the headquarters and manufacturing center of Whirlpool, but the last Whirlpool plant closed years ago…

    …Benton Harbor’s finances are a mess. How could they not be in a town stripped of jobs and hope? So, the state has stripped its residents of their democracy. In what is accurately termed “fiscal martial law,” the state has named a czar to run the city. That appointee, Joseph Harris, has issued an order essentially stripping the elected city council of all powers. No money can be spent, no taxes raised or lowered, no bonds issued, no regulations changed without his approval. Benton Harbor’s residents now live in a dictatorship imposed by a Republican governor famous for his belief that the poor should be punished and the rich rewarded…

    …But developers backed by Whirlpool now want to appropriate a large portion of the park to turn it into a Harbor Shores golf resort with a 350-room hotel, two marinas, a 60,000-foot indoor water park (for members only), and a fancy golf course open to all who can afford a $5,000 entry fee and be approved by the club…

    …Why be suspicious? Because the law that the new czar is operating under was introduced by Republican state Rep. Al Pscholka, former staff aide to U.S. Rep. Fred Upton, an heir to the Whirlpool fortune.

    Typical Republican crony/disaster capitalism – undermine Democracy in the context of a crisis, pick the bones clean, transferring any remaining wealth to private, already-wealthy hands.

    What is wrong with these people?

  141. 163

    Puddybud spews:

    My OH My, more garbage from the garbageman Lib the moron

    We all know that PA is Philly and Pittsburgh with Alabama in the middle; similar demographics in Ohio.
    ‘Culturally Southern’ I believe is a euphemism for ‘racist’ – howl as much as you like. Obama will never get them. There are urban/suburban working-class whites, particularly male, so-called ‘Reagan Democrats’ who may be swingy and get-able for the Democrats.

    Ummm Lib the retard, PA went to Hillary. They like their guns and Bible. Of course you don’t remember as liberalism is a mental disease with a 24 hour memory span. To overcome the disease you create a crazed data-debaze of someone else’s work! Sooooooooooooooooooo, once again for the 39,000+ time (well who is really counting) he is wrong, wrong, wrong! The rest of his screed is useless as ever!

  142. 164

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    From the Michigan Messenger, April 2011:

    On Thursday the state-appointed Emergency Manager Joe Harris used the expanded powers granted by the new law to issue an order banning the city commission from taking any action without his written permission.

    Benton Harbor City Commissioner Juanita Henry says her constituents are angry and looking for help, but without the power to hold meetings the city commission can’t even provide an official venue for citizens to ask questions and get answers.

    “They are using Benton Harbor as a test case,“ Henry said. “If they have disenfranchised the people so badly they just don’t respond to anything, they can do this all over the country.

    [Ed. Emphasis mine]

  143. 165

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Of course you don’t remember as liberalism is a mental disease with a 24 hour memory span. To overcome the disease you create a crazed data-debaze of someone else’s work! Sooooooooooooooooooo, once again for the 39,000+ time (well who is really counting) he is wrong, wrong, wrong! The rest of his screed is useless as ever!

    Does anyone here even remotely understand this gibberish?

  144. 166

    Puddybud spews:

    I’m a doctor, and as far as I’m aware, the Supreme Court has disallowed us from forming unions as a matter of antitrust.

    You must not be a very good one with all the time you spend on this blog Lib the moron!

  145. 168

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    From AlterNet

    We also learn that the Emergency Financial Manager bill (pdf) that allowed Governor Snyder to take over Benton Harbor’s government was sponsored by Al Pscholka. Al Pscholka has some interesting characteristics:

    He is the former aid to Congressman Fred Upton who is a Whirlpool heir
    He represents the area that includes … wait for it … Benton Harbor
    He is the former vice-president of a development company responsible for building Harbor Shores.
    He was on the Board of Directors for a nonprofit involved in the Harbor Shores development

    There is one dot, however, that Rachel Maddow did NOT connect. As I wrote about yesterday, one of the first things that Joseph Harris did was to fire a number of people on both the Planning Commission and the Brownfield Development Commission in Benton Harbor and replace them with people he hand-picked. These two commissions are the ones most intimately involved in decision-making about real estate development in Benton Harbor. They will decide who gets permits, what developments will look like and who gets to pick the ripe plums present in Benton Harbor. And they are now staffed largely by people chosen by the Czar of Benton Harbor.

    This is where the rubber meets the pavement. If you are looking for motivations for Snyder and his Republican friends to take over Benton Harbor, watch who gets development rights of the Lake Michigan shoreline. They are already setting things up to ensure that it is not the local residents of Benton Harbor.

    Yup…”CRISIS!!! PANIC!!!”…abrogate democratically elected government…grab valuable public equities…transfer to private hands. Discard carcase. Rinse. Repeat.

    You know, sounds remarkably similar the Mitt’s BAIN business model.

  146. 169

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Ah…once again puddles shows up and demonstrates that he has NOTHING to say.

    It must be dispiriting to have so little to say, and yet be compelled to write so many nonsense words.

  147. 171

    Puddybud spews:

    It must be dispiriting to have so little to say, and yet be compelled to write so many nonsense words.

    Written by Lib moron who took over this thread! Sometimes you look into the mirror and write the truth about yourself. Bravo!

  148. 174

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Bob was right about one thing yesterday: Benton Harbor is the first battle in a war in Michigan.

    From In These Times:

    In March, Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder won approval of Public Act 4 (i.e., the Emergency Manager law), which permits him to declare that a city is in fiscal crisis and then to appoint an overseer with unlimited powers including the elimination of existing union contracts. Significantly, chief sponsors of Public Act 4 were State Rep. Al Pscholka, who was a former aide to Whirlpool heir U.S. Rep. Fred Upton, and also “a former vice president for one of the major entities involved in building the luxury golf development,” The Rachel Maddow Show reported last week…

    …Benton Harbor’s population is 92% African-American and deeply impoverished by the de-industrialization of the city and surrounding area. Whirlpool’s recent plant shutdown is the most recent, crushing blow as the corporation continues to expand significantly in low-wage plants in Mexico, despite taking $19 million in federal recovery funds…

    This month Harris used the new powers granted to him by the newly passed law, declaring that elected bodies like the Benton Harbor City Council and School Board can meet but cannot make any decisions. The votes of elected bodies and Benton Harbor voters no longer count; the sole decider is Harris, who makes all decisions unilaterally.

    State Rep. Fred Dunhal, interviewed by MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow, views the takeover legislation as part of a national drive by a new crop of fiercely right-wing governors, exemplified by Snyder, Wisconsin’s Scott Walker and Ohio’s John Kasich.

    Their goal is to virtually eliminate any forces that counter corporate domination of state and local government. “This is part of a national agenda,” said Rep. Dunhal. “It involves breaking the contracts of unions and interfering with the ability of cities to make their own decisions.“


    Snyder is taking a step normally unthinkable for a Republican: He is raising taxes to the tune of $1.7 billion. But these tax increases are not designed to ease the pain of the recession or address the state’s budget deficit. The tax increases will come at the expense of seniors who lose their property tax credits, the poor who are deprived of Earned Income Tax Credits, and people who want to make tax-deductible donation to public universities.

    Incredibly, Snyder is also planning on handing out $1.8 billion to corporations in new tax cuts.


    …Snyder’s strategy will leave him in a position to take over more and more of the state’s cities and towns and school districts. He can thus fundamentally reshape Michigan through his appointees by breaking union contracts, substituting private voucher schools for public schools, sell off or lease public assets (e.g., parks, public buildings, power plants, etc.), and privatize water and power systems.

    It’s Disaster Capitalism. Manufacture, or, more commonly, exploit an opportunity by making a difficult situation worse, and use the crisis as a subtext and rationale for eliminating any power outside of your cronies, before any response can be organized (or as Bob blithely says above, appeal the decision), pick the body clean of anything valuable, and leave the bones for the already impoverished, and now disenfranchised, victims.

    Republican governance.

  149. 175

    Puddybud spews:

    If Scott Walker wins what will the HA Libtard leadership write about his victory?

    72 percent favor public sector workers contributing more to their own pensions.
    71 percent favor guvmint employees paying 12% of their own health care premiums.


  150. 176

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Ah, puddles back, throwing as much poo as he can, hoping something sticks…

    I think we’re all beyond that at this point – your game is obvious, and no one is really interested.

    I did follow one of your links, for grins, but stopped reading when I saw a banner at the top of the site that started,

    “As heard on Beck radio…”

    This is the best puddles can do…

  151. 177

    Puddybud spews:

    Seems posting more that 2 paragraphs @174 is allowed again if you are a leftist pinhead.

  152. 178

    Puddybud spews:

    “As heard on Beck radio…”

    The right side of truth will set you free as you posted from left wrong Daily Kooks earlier in this thread.

    This is the best Lib the retard can do?

    Must be.

    Facts seen as “poo” by lib the retard; is really the antidote to libtardo screams!

  153. 181

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    I think puddles’ raving about the link between political ideology and mental disease has a grain of truth, but as usual he has it ass backwards.

    Here‘s an interesting article from Psychological Bulletin, 2003, titled “Political conservatism as motivated social cognition. ” This reports that

    A meta-analysis (88 samples, 12 countries, 22,818 cases) confirms that several psychological variables predict political conservatism: death anxiety (weighted mean r=.50); system instability (.47); dogmatism-intolerance of ambiguity (.34); openness to experience (-.32); uncertainty tolerance (-.27); needs for order, structure, and closure (.26); integrative complexity (-.20); fear of threat and loss (.18); and self-esteem (-.09).

    And the take-home message:

    The core ideology of conservatism stresses resistance to change and justification of inequality…

  154. 182

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    President Obama finally got around to calling Rmoney a liar:

    “Governor Romney came to Des Moines last week and warned of a prairie fire of debt,” he said. “But he left out some facts. His speech was more like a cow pie of distortion.” Then he quipped, “I don’t know whose record he twisted the most – mine or his.”

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: Rmoney’s character ought to be a central theme, because he doesn’t have any. Even grassroots Republicans don’t trust him, because they know he tells audiences what they want to hear, and then does something else. He also runs away from his record: Obamacare originated with a Massachusetts governor named Mitt Romney; and, if anything, instead of criticizing Obamacare, Rmoney should be calling Obama a thief for stealing his best idea. When talking about his record as a vulture capitalist, Rmoney mentions jobs other people created while leaving out the jobs he destroyed. “Cow pie of distortion” isn’t the half of it; Rmoney is a serial liar, whom even Tea Partiers don’t want to vote for. Why? Because he’s a big government guy who isn’t about to throw his public-tit-sucking corporate sponsors under the bus. But he won’t tell you that until after the election.

  155. 184

    bob spews:

    @ 140, 162, 164

    None of those state that the elected officials were dismissed. Their powers have been curtailed, certainly. It’s what happens when something fails and there is no way out other than a takeover by higher-ups. Think bankruptcy. Think bank failures. A receivership is created and adults come in because the kids can’t stop fighting over what they know they need to do but are unwilling to vote to do.

    It’s disingenuous for you to insinuate that elected people were removed from their jobs and for Doctor Steve to state, repeatedly, that citizens lost their rights to vote.

    What citizens lost, prior to the takeover, apparently was their expectation to have their local elected officials act responsibly.

    Big, HUGE, difference.

  156. 185

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    You’ll have to change your own diaper for now, puddles. The stock market has opened. I have more important things to do.

  157. 186

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Puddles is refering to Felix Roque, soon-to-be former mayor of West New York, NJ.

    Here is an article about his (felix’s) email hacking. Note the picture.

    This from wikipedia:

    In the first year as Mayor of West New York, Dr Felix Roque was able to reach out to Governor Chris Christie numerous times while receiving several of his visits to the Town of West New York.

    Mayor Roque … arranged a Town Hall-style meeting with Governor Christie, who addressed two bills which he claimed “would keep taxes more level,” including his controversial overhaul of public pensions and benefits.

    Along with this visit, it marked the third time in one year since the Governor had visited the town of West New York, including himself inaugurating Dr. Roque as the new Mayor

    Puddles big point about a sleazeball with a “D” after his name seems to be – another – dud. This guy is clearly a DINO and BIG FRIEND of Chris Christie, hero of the Republican Party.

    Sorry, puddles, that one isn’t gonna stick either – he’s one of yours!


  158. 187

    Steve spews:

    @159 “You’ve gone from simple inane threats and profanity to talk about taking lives if you don’t get what you want. Go join the OWS crowd and get arrested with Molotov cocktails in your back seat.”

    Christ, Bob, apparently you wake up in the morning and the first thing you do is start making shit up. Last thing at night, first thing in the morning. Fucktard.

    Look here, shithead, I mentioned how we dealt with fascist Germany in WWII and you feel threatened, obviously because you’re a damned fascist yourself. You cry and whine like a damned baby. Don’t you have a fucking spine?

    You really ought to consider giving up your fascist bullshit, Bob, because you just don’t seem to be cut out for it. It probably at least requires balls to be an American race-hating fascist these days and that’s something you’re obviously lacking.

    If you don’t like the way I treat you, then crawl out of your damned hole and try doing something about it. Until then, stop that damned incessant whining of yours and take your lying fascist ass someplace where someone gives a flying fuck.

  159. 188

    bob spews:

    @ 181

    9 years old.
    12 countries had data included in the meta-analysis. How many were American studies and what was the number of participants who were American?
    None of the significant factors mentioned inequality. The conclusion is not supported by the significant findings.

    Another way of stating conservatism based on those findings is that it is a desire for stability and risk avoidance, and a preference for certainty.

    At least, looking at the significant parameters, that is what I would take from it.

  160. 189

    Steve spews:

    “Big, HUGE, difference.”

    The citizens of Benton Harbor no longer have representative goverment, fucktard. It’s beyond dispute and we know that a lying fascist prick like you is good with it, so just STFU already.

  161. 190

    bob spews:

    @ 187

    Thank you for reinforcing my point. Maybe consider trying to add something to the discussion other than repetition and thuggish profanity, hmmmmm?

    You’re a really funny guy, although not in the way you might think. Kind of an angry, profane Rujax!, and apparently not much more intelligent. After all the fucks, bullshits, cries of fascism, and your curious continued obsession with fucking a member of the caprine species, what have you got to offered? What original contribution have you offered in this post? Only a false claim of voters losing their rights to vote, clearly debunked, which you are too immature to acknowledge. Man up or go home.

    Have a lovely day, Doctor Steve. I won’t be on today to ‘bore’ you.

  162. 191

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    None of those state that the elected officials were dismissed.

    No, they were left in office with their power eliminated by fiat from the governor. Distinction without a difference you twit. It’s perhaps more insidious than dismissing them outright – they’re left there as window dressing, but also an object lesson that a communities elected leaders can be marginalized at will from above – know your place, and all that.

    It’s disingenuous for you to insinuate that elected people were removed from their jobs and for Doctor Steve to state, repeatedly, that citizens lost their rights to vote.

    That’s not true at all. You’re the one being utterly disingenuous.

    …adults come in because the kids can’t stop fighting…

    Yup – those pesky poor black voters – tut tut – they need to know their place and let the adults step in get their things in order for them – clearly they can’t take care of themselves. What a breathtaking demonstration of class warfare, Bub, and corrosive racism.

    This is disaster capitalism at it’s worst and is simply a naked grab for power and money by wealthy Republicans…because they can.

    I think the Republican Party is simply the place were amoral sociopaths find easiest to gather.

  163. 192

    bob spews:

    @ 162, 164

    Citizens of Benton Harbor were able to vote on seven separate proposed amendments to their city charter.

    They voted down each and every one of them.

    That’s direct citizen ballot access.

    It also is incorrect @ 164 that the commissioners cannot hold meetings. Their ability to get much done has been severely curtailed but they can hold meetings.

    I would point out to Doctor Steve that the link demonstrates citizens voting in that city further proves that his contention that they have had their voting rights taken away from them is false, but it is clear that it has been at least 7 to 10 days since Doctor Steve has successfully had a bowel movement and it is affecting his judgement and intellect.

  164. 193

    Puddybud spews:

    Interesting… Arabic in NYC schools. As-Salamu Alaykum. Salakum A salaam.

    Sha’ria law not far behind?

    So what will happen to the gays? Just check out what they do to y’all in the middle east!

  165. 194

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    9 years old.

    And the DNA double helix was published in 1953 – your point?

    How many were American studies and what was the number of participants who were American?

    How is it that only Americans count as relevant?

    None of the significant factors mentioned inequality. The conclusion is not supported by the significant findings.

    Again demonstrating a poor grasp of subtle points.

    don’t have any more time for whack-a-mole this morning

  166. 195

    Puddybud spews:

    Oh my TPM is trying to tie the hacker and his son to Chris Christie? And Lib the moron runs to one of his leftist links to scour it for a retort?




    Bwaaaaaa haaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaaa

    They, TPM, must be really worried about some DUMMOCRAPTIC skeletons!!!

  167. 196

    Puddybud spews:

    Still no commentary from the leftists regarding a terrorist being jockstrapped by George Soros and Barbara Streisand!

    So funny! Too sad!

  168. 197

    Puddybud spews:

    Wow lib the moron@181…

    These traits include conventionalism, authoritarian submission, authoritarian aggression, anti-intellectualism, anti-intraception, superstition and stereotypy, power and “toughness”, destructiveness and cynicism, projectivity, and exaggerated concerns over sex.

    Sounds like an HA libtard to me.

    conventionalism – Obummer and his latest speech

    authoritarian submission – Cory Booker this past week

    authoritarian aggression – Obummer and his surrogate attacks on Cory Booker, Harold Ford Jr, and Colin Powell

    anti-intellectualism – Elizabeth Warren in action. No documented or DNA facts just gut feel.

    anti-intraception – DUMMOCRAPTS who claim it’s their way or the highway

    superstition – Only DUMMOCRAPTS know what is right for everyone

    stereotypy – Typical of libtard media who get their talking points from the DNC and Media Morons

    power and “toughness” – Obummer exposing the fine military types who took down Bin Ladin

    destructiveness and cynicism – Bill Ayers, Anthony Van Jones, Cass Sunstein, John Holdren

    projectivity – lib the moron trying to put his words in other people’s mouths

    exaggerated concerns over sex – Bill Clinton’s latest picture with “hookers”

    Nuff Said SUCKA!

  169. 198

    Bob spews:

    @ 194

    That study originated at UCB. Where men are men and so are the women, the old joke goes.

    Here’s a UCB summary:

    From that piece:

    They also stressed that their findings are not judgmental.

    I guess they left the judging of others up to you, Lib Sci. Including your judgement that I lack an ability to grasp subtlety.

    Also from that piece:

    The researchers conceded cases of left-wing ideologues, such as Stalin, Khrushchev or Castro, who, once in power, steadfastly resisted change, allegedly in the name of egalitarianism.

    Aren’t you glad you brought it up?

    Bombshell news item: Conservatives and liberals differ. There probably are multiple reasons.

    Thanks for bring that to our attention, Lib Sci.

  170. 199

    Steve spews:

    Voter suppression by the millions across the country. Cities and towns governed through emergency Managers. Local representation lost. Public assets of a town given to the very same global corporation which abandoned it for Mexico. Broken unions. A sociopathic corporate raider installed the Oval Office. What’s not to love, huh, Bob?

    “It’s about Detroit. Think about it.”

    Yeah, the takeover of your first major American city.

    “This will be an ugly, violent, sad episode in the history of our country when it happens.”

    You’re not gonna get all racist on us again, are you?

    “Think about this: A group of mostly white guys and girls, democratically elected at the state level, will have to forcibly take over the affairs of a largely black city”

    Oh my! You really did go there again. Isn’t there any way that violence can be avoided when Republicans take control of Detroit?

    “There is no way to make that pretty. People in distress will be thrown into worse temporary distress because things that cannot go on forever, don’t. Think National Guard. Think citizen militias.”

    Damn, it’s gonna really suck being black in Detroit, Bob. By your narrative, you seem to know from personal experience that Detroit is a black urban hell hole. Are you from Detroit?

    “I’ve never even seen Detroit. Never been close to there.”

    How do you feel about Philly?

  171. 201

    Puddybud spews:

    Venture Capture Vampire…?

    Well who jockstraps this? Obummer’s National Co-chair…

    Amazing how the slobbering national libtardo media is mum on this job destruction.

    James Kelley and Federico Peña!

    Now we know why Cory Booker, Harold Ford Jr and others have been telling Obummer to stop!

  172. 203

    Puddybud spews:

    Just two weeks ago, Del Monte announced the closure of a plant in Kingsburg, Califoria, effectively slashing 1,000 jobs. “I am extraordinarily disappointed by Del Monte to make this decision,” Kingsburg Mayor Bruce Blayney told the Kingsburg Recorder. “This is a major blow to the local economy.”

    Butttt, buttt, buttt, oh… nevermind!

  173. 204

    Steve spews:

    @202 I eventually came to believe that opportunity is the ultimate answer, Puddy. But I can’t really say how we best bring opportunity to America’s decaying inner cities. I bet you and I could have a great conversation about this because we both care deeply and we’ve both been there. Heh. But if we did that here it’d ruin both of our reputations.

  174. 205

    Bob spews:

    Boston Globe, owned by NYT, which is no friend of Mitt Romney.

    And yet:

    Democratic candidates and committees have received more than $1.3 million from Bain Capital workers since the 2008 election cycle – double the amount collected by Republicans.

    The willingness of Obama and his party to fund their campaigns with Bain Capital money threatens to undermine their protests against the manner in which it was earned.

    This is how you know that the Bain thing isn’t helping Obama and it’s not hurting Romney. NYT’s properties aren’t providing Obama cover. They’re pointing out his hypocrisy instead.

    Meanwhile, Nikki Haley and Bobby Jindal are flying to WI to endorse Scott Walker.

    Anyone from out of town flying in to endorse Barrett?

    The takehome from this:

    GOP sees WI as a national opportunity. Two governors aiding a third. In a state not quite so blue as used to be. In an election year. Dems have unions to thank for giving the GOP this opportunity. Not much else going on in early June so this election will get an awful lot of airplay.

    Obama, on the other hand, can’t be bothered himself to help out. He was iin Iowa, which has fewer electoral votes than WI, trying out his ‘cowpie’ line.

    Anyone on HA besides YLB nervous about Dem prospects? Anyone? Bueller?

    Or all you still reveling in Darryl’s 99.9% likelihood of Obama victory crapola from a couple of days ago?

  175. 206

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:


    I’ve always been fascinated with puddles’ inability to use the verb ‘support’ and instead reflexively uses ‘jockstrap’ as a verb.

    Makes you wonder why he would be so rigid in his behavior…

  176. 207

    Steve spews:

    We could maybe start that conversation by generally agreeing that Dr. Bill Cosby knows of what he speaks.

  177. 208

    Puddybud spews:


    You and Max.

    You and Puddy.

    OMGoodness the anger and frustration of libtards over those friendships!

    Ya know what? I was flying back yesterday and I was playing mahjong on my tablet. I thought of ylb for a fleeting second because I will get a bonus for good programmers at my job. I wondered would he be up to the job challenge. It’s very grueling and you write code in the day long interview. If you fail you don’t meet mgmt in the afternoon and discuss coding with them.

    So Steve, you claim that ylb is “your great friend”. Think he’s up for the job try or is he content to sit on his ASS living on left wrong kook sites?

  178. 209

    Bob spews:

    @ 204

    Reminds me of Geithner’s ‘We don’t have a plan. We just know we don’t like yours.’ testimony.

    An admission of haplessness on the part of the Dems, and yet an unwillingness to go along with the hard decisions that the GOP knows will be necessary and is willing to make, given the opportunity.

    Very nice summary of your paradox, Doctor Steve. See what happens when you don’t fill your posts with profanity and bestiality? You inadvertently score own-goals, but at least you do so honestly.


  179. 210

    Puddybud spews:

    Oh Lib the moron, you complain over jockstrap? Would you prefer codpiece?

    Seems Lib the moron misses the info from #197 above.


  180. 211

    Steve spews:

    @205 You’re an obvious racist, Bob. I think it’s going to be increasingly difficult for people here to see past that and give a fuck about anything else you have to say. You should simply be marginalized, shunned and laughed at.

  181. 212

    Bob spews:

    @ 211

    Doctor Steve, you refer to a post and call me a racist. What in that post has anything to do with racism? Other than how your ilk refers to Jindal and Haley due their heritage, that is.

    Maybe google ‘Sikh Jesus’ or look up Mike Malloy


    so that you know what I’m talking about.

    Doctor Steve, you are reduced to profanity, bestiality references, and allegations of racism as a response to everything. You’re on empty.

    You ‘bore’ me, Doctor Steve.

  182. 213

    Steve spews:

    @209 “Reminds me of Geithner’s ‘We don’t have a plan.”

    That comment of yours was in response to two very successful men, one black and the other white, political polar opposites, both from from our respective city’s worst environs, and willing to have an earnest discussion about how to solve the problems facing America’s distressed inner cities.

    Yeah, I can see why you’d be dismissive, Bob, likely even deeply disturbed. It’d mean that your wetdream of white militias roaming the streets of Detroit might not come true.

  183. 214

    Steve spews:

    “You ‘bore’ me, Doctor Steve.”

    Hmm, my racist-speak decoder app just translated that one as, “I’m fucked.”

    Yes, Bob, you are.

  184. 215

    Bob spews:

    @ 213

    So start the discussion. As I said last night @135, it would be a very interesting thread.

    Can you do it without bestiality and profanity, Doctor Steve? Can you mention black and white, as you did in @213, without immediately screaming racism when someone else mentions black and white in a wholly innocent context?

    Can you? I doubt it, but show us. Floor’s yours. Steve.

  185. 216

    Puddybud spews:

    When Lib the moron claims I bore him I can use my libtardo-speak decoder app just translated that one as, “I’m fucked.”

    Thanks Steve.

    HA, I give full reference and citation to Steve!

  186. 217

    Bob spews:

    @ 214, 216

    Doctor Steve told me earlier this week I bore him. That’s where my reference came from. It was a dig in response. I’m far from out of ammunition.

  187. 218

    Steve spews:

    “You and Puddy” Max and I are doing an email exchange through Carl. How about we make that round of golf we’re planning a three-some, Puddy?

  188. 220

    Steve spews:

    “HA, I give full reference and citation to Steve!”

    Yeah, I’ll take credit for that!

    These decoder apps are a blast, Puddy. @217 just came through as, “Now I’m seriously fucked.”

  189. 221

    Steve spews:

    Let’s see if Carl responds to Max and myself. If not, then let’s all three of us hit up Lee or Darryl.

  190. 222

    Puddybud spews:

    Now the WA Po has an opinion piece on Obummer…

    Amazingly, Obama has declared that all the projects received funding “based solely on their merits.” But as Hoover Institution scholar Peter Schweizer reported in his book, “Throw Them All Out,” fully 71 percent of the Obama Energy Department’s grants and loans went to “individuals who were bundlers, members of Obama’s National Finance Committee, or large donors to the Democratic Party.” Collectively, these Obama cronies raised $457,834 for his campaign, and they were in turn approved for grants or loans of nearly $11.35 billion. Obama said this week it’s not the president’s job “to make a lot of money for investors.” Well, he sure seems to have made a lot of (taxpayer) money for investors in his political machine.

    All that cronyism and corruption is catching up with the administration. According to Politico, “The Energy Department’s inspector general has launched more than 100 criminal investigations” related to the department’s green-energy programs.

    Now if GW Bush had done this it would be multiple HA thread headings.

  191. 223

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Now the WA Po has an opinion piece on Obummer…

    You forgot to include that the ‘WaPo opinion piece’ is by Marc Thiessen, well known right-wing hack and all around non-trustworthy guy.

    …fully 71 percent of the Obama Energy Department’s grants and loans went to “individuals who were bundlers, members of Obama’s National Finance Committee, or large donors to the Democratic Party.”

    Even if his statistics are true (which I do not concede), it’s perfectly plausable that people who would be in the renewable energy business were Democrats in the first place, or at the very least saw Democrats as the only party that would support their industry at all, and would very rationally direct their campaign contributions thusly.

    So puddles, you don’t like people in industry supporting politicians who support them? Are you against Citizens United ruling? Super PACS? Dick Cheney’s energy task force? Scotty Walker and Mittens Rmoney taking in boatloads of money from the people who expect favorable treatment in return?

    You again have no fucking point.

  192. 224

    Liberal Scientist is a slut who occasionally wears a hoodie spews:

    Seems Lib the moron misses the info from #197 above.

    It’s not my job to be your therapist or babysitter and disentangle every raving delusion you vomit on these threads. You are manifestly unwell.

  193. 225

    Puddybud spews:

    You again have no fucking point.

    Using Steve’s converted to libtardo speak Lib the moron just wrote…

    “Now I’m seriously fucked.”

  194. 226

    Puddybud spews:

    You are manifestly unwell.

    Is this your “professional” opinion? Because your blog opinions are always full of contradictions and holes!

    Sucks to be you!

  195. 227

    No Time for Fascists spews:

    A receivership is created and adults come in because the kids can’t stop fighting over what they know they need to do but are unwilling to vote to do.

    Wait… That’s interesting point of view. Lets explore that. How far do you take that? Are you advocating that America will need a dictator when congress won’t do it’s job and we get into a fiscal crisis?

  196. 228

    Puddybud spews:

    So you don’t like Marc Thiessen. Facts destroy libtard positions.

    BTW it was you who so proudly posted #181. So I deconstructed it in #197 and you go apoplectic.




  197. 229

    Puddybud spews:

    Are you advocating that America will need a dictator when congress won’t do it’s job and we get into a fiscal crisis?

    Isn’t that what Harry Reid advocates by not creating a Senate budget Fascist?

    The House has created two budgets so far with Republicans in charge. Nancy Pelosi didn’t create one in 2010 so her ASS was kicked to the curb.

  198. 230

    Bob spews:

    @ 227

    I take it you are referring to Harry Reid’s refusal to create a budget, bring to a vote bills passed by the House, etc.

    We’re already in a fiscal crisis. Our ‘dictator’ is a guy up for re-appointment by a democratically elected president and subject to approval by a democratically elected Senate every five years.

    So, no, I’m not advocating that. I’m also not advocating investment in US government securities.

    There exists for this country processes to bypass gridlock in Congress. One of those processes, I suppose, is default on our obligations. Several on this site (Michael, YLB) promote a Greek default, so why not us?

    So, there exists a process.

    There also exists a legal process in Michigan, which is underway currently and will be complete by the time its constitutionality is decided at the highest levels.

  199. 231

    No Time for Fascists spews:

    Let’s see if I can parse what you said.

    >> Because the democratic senate could not get the obstructionist republican to compromise on anything so they could pass a fair budget, this means the democrats want a dictator installed to solve the problem?
    No. Do you ever read what you post?

    The second paragraph isn’t even on topic.

  200. 232

    No Time for Fascists spews:

    Our ‘dictator’ is a guy up for re-appointment by a democratically elected president and subject to approval by a democratically elected Senate every five years.
    Who? We don’t have a Michigan style person yet.

  201. 233

    Bob spews:

    @ 231

    I proposed no dictator. You asked if I foresaw one in our future and my response was that a role of financial oversight of a congressional gridlock requiring intervention currently exists and

    @ 232

    that I believe that person is Ben Bernanke.

    @ 231

    My second paragraph is on-point in that default is an option for the US since there is no greater responsible party.

    In Michigan, Lib Sci, municipalities are formed under State guidelines and remain subject to State regulation and laws, so it’s really quite different. Michigan’s laws supercede those of the municipalities formed under its umbrella. When a municipality fails, it’s the State’s problem. In this case the State decided to take over.

    Ergo, I don’t think you can compare a township crisis in Michigan to a US crisis.

    What did you call me last night? A twit or something like that? That wasn’t nice. I’m of a different opinion than you but I’m arguing based on what I know and I did do a little reading. Be nice.

  202. 234

    Puddybud spews:

    Because the democratic senate could not get the obstructionist republican to compromise on anything so they could pass a fair budget, this means the democrats want a dictator installed to solve the problem?

    You wrote that, not Puddy. It’s a Psych 101 thing per Steve. You should take his advice and leave. Now let’s review the facts about Harry Reid’s senate

    Harry had 60 senators in 2009

    Harry has 59 senators in 2010

    Harry has 53 senators in 2011

    Harry has 53 senators in 2012

    Somehow it takes 51 senators to pass a budget.

    So much for the Media Morons/Daily Kooks obstructionist chant!

  203. 235

    No Time for Fascists spews:

    I don’t think that was me and if it was, I’m sorry. I try not to name call. It doesn’t further the discussion. I have called people indigenous, or willfully ignorant, out of frustration.

    Bob. Got a question for you:

    If there was a financial solution to a deep fiscal problem, but it means that the rich have to become less rich, (Note: I did not say poor, I said LESS rich), but it would solve the problem, would you support it?

  204. 236

    Bob spews:

    @ 234

    Gentle correction, here. Did Harry Reid not have 60 Senators prior to Kennedy’s death? I believe that he did. Or maybe we should say 59 since Kennedy had only half a brain at the end, and Byrd was brain-dead for most of his final decade, so subtract one-half, twice, from 60.

  205. 237

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @233 Would it be a misuses of Michigan’s municipal law to take over a municipality and then sell publicly-owned property at favorable prices to friends in a way that financially benefits the friends?

    C’mon, Bob, we’ve all seen Republican corruption before (we were up to our necks in it for eight years) and we know what Republican corruption looks (and smells) like.

  206. 238

    Steve spews:

    The 75th anniversary of the opening of the Golden Gate Bridge is being celebrated this year. I was living in the Bay area during the 50th celebration when they closed the bridge to traffic and allowed 750,000 celebrants to take it over for a party. Although designed to carry extremely heavy loads, this photo shows what happened when all those people were on the bridge at the same time, stretching the cables and collapsing (hmm, maybe that’s the wrong word to use) the arch.

    I looked at the event calendar and it looks like they’re not going to do that again this year. Heh. No shit?

  207. 239

    Bob spews:

    @ 235

    Raise taxes across the board. Shared sacrifice. Make everyone have skin in the game.

    If the rich are less rich, and if so are those not ‘rich’, but the problem is addressed by broad increased taxation, I support it.

    This ‘soak the rich’ shit is idiotic. 1. Won’t solve the problem and 2. Is populist because the 70% that support it aren’t going to be directly negatively affected by it.

    Make it painful across the board. Cause people to be damned sure they tell their representatives they won’t support a repeat of this idiotic spending that got us here.

    Then, yes, I support making the rich poorer to get out of the problem.

    Apologies if it was not you. But you were pretty pissed off at what you claimed was a mischaracterization by me.

  208. 240

    No Time for Fascists spews:

    If the house keeps sending destructive budgets like the Ryan budget to the house, of course Harry is going to reject it. If the republican senators filibuster every positive thing the democrats propose, of course nothing is going to get done.
    Seems it’s the fault of the obstructionist republicans. You should be blaming them.

  209. 241

    Bob spews:

    Doctor Steve seems to have left. Maybe he’s practicing sentences that don’t include bestiality references and having some difficulty constructing one.

    I’m leaving, too. Good day, all.

  210. 242

    Puddybud spews:

    Apparently Fascist one didn’t read the links. Not one DUMMOCRAPT senator voted for the Obummer budget either! So he distorts the truth!

  211. 243

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Gunman Holds Hostages In Indiana

    In another of those extremely rare cases of guns falling into the wrong hands that happen nearly every day in the gun-happy USA, a madman has taken hostages in a Valparaiso, Indiana, real estate office. Police are negotiating with the gunman. So far, no one has been killed. Initial indications are the incident involves a domestic dispute between the gunman and his girlfriend.

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: Republicans think anyone should be allowed to get a gun without a background check and carry it anywhere without a permit. And, of course, they’re against mandatory safety training for people who apply for concealed carry permits (in states that require them). Why would any sane people vote for such stupidity?

    (Full Disclosure: Roger Rabbit has a concealed carry permit and doesn’t trust rightwing extremists who claim they’re armed, want to start a civil war, and would like to kill liberals.)

  212. 244

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @241 What’s good about it? You and putz are both here. I repeat, what’s good about that?

  213. 245

    Bob spews:

    @ 240

    If the Dem Senators bring a budget, GOP Senators will allow a vote.


    1. The vote will pass with enough Dem support (53 Dems, only 51 needed to pass a budget, so they can afford three defections).
    2. It won’t pass the House without serious modification.

    So a bill passed by each side then goes to conference committee.

    The upshot is that Dems have to vote on something they don’t want their name attached to, a contentious conference committee will result in something that Obama won’t sign, and then Obama’s the obstructionist.

    Or, Reid can refuse to bring anything to a vote. McConnell forced him to bring Obama’s budget proposal to a vote. Zero votes in support. But nothing that originates with Senate Dems will be voted on, for reasons described above.

    The reason there is no budget is because Reid won’t allow his side to create one. Don’t blame the GOP. Follow the way a budget bill would work through the system. The GOP WANTS the Senate Dems to create a bill and bring it up for a vote.

  214. 247

    Steve spews:

    @241 My racist decoder app translates that one as, “How did I ever get to be so fucked?”

    I went down to the reservation for a while, Bob, to see some friends. So what’s that to you, other than the usual ugly disgust of a racist at the thought of a white man hanging around with his Native American friends, respecting them as the equal human beings that they are?

  215. 248

    Steve spews:

    So anyways, Bob, what were you doing when you first had that wetdream of yours about white militias roaming the streets of Detroit? Oh wait, don’t tell me. You were jacking off, weren’t you? And do tell me, in your dream, Bob, were those white militia shooting the black people of Detroit on sight?

  216. 249

    Puddybud spews:

    And do tell me, in your dream, Bob, were those white militia shooting the black people of Detroit on sight?

    Ummm Steve, with relative in the Detroit area, it’s mostly black-on-black crime!

    Detroit Population statistics

    Start of 2000, 951,270 people.

    Start of 2006, 871,121 people.

    Start of 2011, 713,777 people.

    So in reality it’s worse.

  217. 250

    Steve spews:

    Quite true, Puddy, and that’s a problem we should talk about. But here I’m sharing a hunch I have that Bob wasn’t quite dreaming of militia members with black faces.

  218. 252

    Steve spews:

    @249 My late friend who we’ve talked about, he was from Detroit and he’s buried there now. I only met his parents once, when I was best man at his wedding and they came out here. I’d like to go there and visit his grave and spend time with his family. His father has already passed, undortunately, but his Mom’s still kicking.

    He loved Detroit, but his favorite city was Chicago. He’d always return from a visit to Chicago raving about the great music and the great record stores. He’d always bring back a bunch of jazz LP’s, eventually building a huge collection.

  219. 253

    Puddybud spews:

    Well Steve, I have to disagree here. Kwame Kirkpatrick was one of the most corrupt mayors ever in Detroit. Here is another post of corruption. Here is more information. http://prairiepundit.blogspot......troit.html

    Black on black crime seems to fall into another category among liberals. There is little to no outrage over young black men killing other young black men, but the black establishment will create a national hysteria over a young black man killed by a young man of mixed heritage that they identify as a white Hispanic. I think the same lack of moral leadership in the black community makes them ambivalent about black on black theft. Cory Booker is a rare exception. Hopefully there will be more like him who will take the place of the race hustlers like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

    I posted the Detroit corruption for many years here. Ask your “great friend” for a link repost. So in the case of others running Detroit, it’s a known fact Steve.

  220. 254

    Steve spews:

    @251 You still have family there, don’t you? I know that your Mom’s gone now, sadly, but don’t you go back there now and then? That was the impression I’ve had.

  221. 255

    Steve spews:

    Yes, the history of corruption in Detroit, Kirkpatrick in particular, is a sad thing. Embarrassing, I have to hang my head because it’s Democrats. Isn’t Dave Bing mayor now? What do you think of the job he’s doing, or did? My, it’s got to be one of the toughest, most discouraging jobs in the world, being the mayor of that city.

  222. 256

    Steve spews:

    “race hustlers like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton”

    Hmm, I’m going to have to chalk up two points in your column.

  223. 257

    Randroid spews:

    I did a quick skim of bob posts from the last few days. bob is never overtly racist. He is very careful with his words, they could be sarcastic, or a joke or have a double meaning, but he is rarely, if ever blatantly racist. Like his “sarcasm” about the “the one” or his critique of herman cain. It’s just enough to send people like Steve into a frothing fury but bob has deniable plausibility. He’s not racist; people who misconstrue him are just overly sensitive. Well played.

    However, bob is strongly logical and appears to cares deeply only about money and the bottom line. This makes him seem to lack compassion for others or care about the human costs of the political actions he calls for.

  224. 258

    No Time for Fascists spews:

    It’s a nice weekend. Have fun. Enjoy Folk Life. Hope you have a good Memerial weekend, a time to remember the men and women who died while serving in the United States Armed Forces.

  225. 259

    Puddybud spews:

    I have one sibling there. Yes Dave Bing is the mayor. He’s trying to right a sinking ship!

  226. 260

    Steve spews:

    This is something that long ago gave me hope. Perhaps it still should. It ties into my thoughts of opportunity being the key to change. The story of Bed-Stuy.

    I hope we can discuss this someday as I really am curious about what you think about these problems. And I readily admit that you understand them better than I do. But I’m a problem solver. It’s what I do. I think we could have a great conversation.

  227. 262

    Steve spews:

    @257 Yeah, he pissed me off. Encountering racists does that to me. But then I recalled just how much fun it is to make fun of racists. Pay attention, Randroid, and you’ll see that there’s a new game afoot.

    As for Bob being strongly logical, I respectfully disagree. He hasn’t shown us that. As for Bob not being racist, I disagree on that one as well. Look again at the totality of his remarks, especially the truly bizarre comment @131.

    The guy is a racist. I’m mean, really, Randroid, who other than a racist would talk of militias being needed in the streets of Detroit due to an anticipated ugly, violent response by blacks to being governed by whites appointed by a white, right-wing governor? Militias? Like I’ve said, that’s just a disgusting, racist wetdream.

  228. 263

    Steve spews:

    @261 I missed that.

    “Johnson opened the Crenshaw theater in 1995 through a partnership with Sony-Loews Theatres designed to promote economic development in predominantly black neighborhoods.”

    That’s exactly the kind of partnership I had in mind. What happened? Did AMC buy the theater from Sony-Loews or something?

  229. 264

    Steve spews:

    @259 Do you like what Bing’s doing? If so, what is it you like? I haven’t really followed. So I’ll have to read up on it.

  230. 265

    Puddybud spews:

    People stopped going to Magic’s theater. It was sad.

    I like what Bing is TRYING to do. He’s trying to regentrify the city. But they had to mow down many abandoned houses because the militia… um no, stupid black thugs were setting them on fire and then have to let them burn.

    But with the problems he faced from Kirkpatrick he had to cut services.

  231. 266

    Steve spews:

    “He’s trying to regentrify the city.”

    Thinking of a revitalized Columbia City in Rainier Valley, my old stomping grounds, that’s probably a good move by the mayor, Puddy.

    “stupid black thugs”

    Sigh! I’ve met my share. It’s a problem.

    Bye the bye, I’ve long shared your view of Jesse and Sharpton, but in my role played here I’ve probably never let on that I agree with you.

  232. 267

    Steve spews:

    “race hustlers”, you called them. Yep. I’d preceed that with, “self glorified”. It’s not my place to suggest to black Americans what to do, but if I were to do so, it’d be something along the lines of, “Please ignore the likes of those guys and listen more closely and really hear what Bill Cosby is trying to say to you.”

  233. 268

    Puddybud spews:

    Disliked Jesse after his Karen Stanford affair and how he covered it up with Push money and got away from it. I was in NY during the Tawana Brawley affair and to this day Sharpton has not apologized!

  234. 269

    Puddybud spews:

    “race hustlers”, you called them. Yep. I’d preceed that with, “self glorified”.

    You know rujax will be pizzed!

  235. 270

    Puddybud spews:


    Read this about Detroit and what’s happening with Michigan.

    Don’t remember if I posted it before but I’m sure your entreaty to ylb will get the info for you!

  236. 271

    Steve spews:

    And Puddy, while Al may have brought attention to what happened in Florida, and I believe rightfully so, he did it by being the same old Al Sharpton, which is a damned shame. He caused a number of “WTF?” moments for me on that one.

  237. 273

    Steve spews:

    Heh, I figured out what SBPDL stands for. Stuff that Black People Don’t Like. Is it a black person who runs that site? I get the impression that the commenters are all whites recalling the good ol’ days before “Black Undertow”.

    I believe the solutions for what ails inner-city black communities, such as drugs and black on black crime, is going to have to originate from same. I’d point to what you showed me Magic is trying to do. He needed help from outside and asked for it, but the idea seems to have originated with him, it’s a good one, but much more of the same is needed if any significant change for the better is to ever become real.

  238. 274

    Steve spews:

    “Yeah, but where is AL with black-on-black crime.”

    Hmm, I think Al is on the toob, making the big bucks.

  239. 275

    Steve spews:

    I like that Magic went to Sony-Loews rather than the government. That’s quite similar to what Bobby Kennedy was up to in Bed-Stuy, although he might have thrown a tax break or two at it as well. What happened in Bed-Stuy wasn’t Bobby’s idea. I believe that what he did very well in Bed-Stuy was to simply listen to the community. It was their idea. But using his name and connections, he was able to help the community in making it happen.

  240. 276

    Puddybud spews:

    Steve, not sure…

    But here is another site I sometimes read… Gotta stay well rounded, unlike some of the “masses” here.

    If you paid attention I posted many sites I visit off and on! My second oldest brother told me to always stay one step ahead of anyone. To do that you must read.

  241. 277

    Steve spews:

    This afternoon I’ve been watching a little bit of the Senior PGA that’s being played on the golf course that used to be Benton Harbor’s beloved waterfront park. My, that’s a damn fine looking golf course. And, you know, that resort isn’t looking too shabby either. On second thought, guys, fuck the people of Benton Harbor. Me and my golf clubs are off to Michigan!

    Just kidding!!!

  242. 278

    Steve spews:

    @276 My Dear Ms. Wingnut recommends much to me. Plus I get every imaginable chain email forwarded to me. I’m gonna have to talk to her about the latter one. Heh.

    I haven’t seen the HNMT for awhile. You know I enjoy his visits. I was just recalling today a post of his on the Bible Study thread when you and I were defending Christians, each in our own very distinctly different way, might I remind you. You probably remember. Anyway, he wrote a great comment that actually brought a tear to my eye. I like that guy. I always get a laugh at how he slips in a gentle tweak for me when he goes off on Bobby, and he knows I get a kick out of it. I hope he’s well.

  243. 280


    He’s not racist; people who misconstrue him are just overly sensitive.

    He’s racism baiting.. I’ll say it again. You could talk about the weather and he’ll bring up race..

    Nevermind that even raving maniacs like Glenn Beck have called out the Tea Party on their racism.

    It’s the typical right wing tactic these days – anything to distract from the stink of their beloved policies.

  244. 281

    Puddybud spews:

    Steve, the pinhead @280 loves to dwell on Tea Party Racism while giving a pass to left wing racism. Focused on nothing important.

    Hey moron @280, when are you going to focus on getting a job?

  245. 283

    Puddybud spews:

    Did Obummer blow the cover of the Pakistani doctor for his own Seal Team bragging benefit?

    What a pinhead if true!

  246. 284

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Is This Free Speech?

    “Washington State Patrol detectives on Friday arrested an Everett man for reportedly threatening to kill the governor. … He also was accused of second-degree unlawful possession of a firearm.”

    “Second-degree unlawful possession of a firearm” means the guy is a convicted felon or has been acquitted of a felony on grounds of insanity.

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: So … is this “free speech” or a prosecutable crime?

  247. 285

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    What about this? Is this free speech?

    “When he finally confessed to creating a fake porn profile for his son’s assistant principal, Robert Dale Esparza Jr. of Gilbert, Arizona, ‘sort of laughed,’ says Dennis Ogorchock, a detective with the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office Computer Crimes Unit. … Last year, Esparza created the profile of Frank Hendricsen, assistant principal of Gateway Pointe Elementary School … using the faculty member’s full name and photos as a revenge prank, the detective told in a phone interview. Esparza … believed … that Hendricsen confiscated [his son’s] iPod … so the father lashed out on the internet …. The detective said Hendricsen learned about the fake profile … from a prospective employer who Googled Hendricsen’s name after a job interview for a principal position at another school. …

    “The profile Esparza posted on … a video-sharing and online community porn hub included Hendricsen’s full name, photos of both the assistant principal and his wife … and described the couple as ‘swingers’ looking to play. For further humiliation, Esparza included four photos of male genitals … from Craiglist personal ads, but identified as Hendricsen’s, and more than a dozen ‘favorited videos on the porn hub, all deliberately chosen by Esparza for their naughty school girl themes.”

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: This perp was convicted of computer fraud and identity theft, and is looking at jail time. Would anyone call this “free speech”? How about the Everett guy who threatened to kill Gov. Gregoire? Should he go to jail, too? And if these guys are jailbait, shouldn’t Ted Nugent be jailbait, too? Where is the line between free speech and unprotected speech that harms others to such a degree that it warrants criminal prosecution and imprisonment? This is the “shouting fire in a crowded theater” question that shows up on first-year law school exams.

  248. 286

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @283 I doubt very much that Obama is so stupid that he’d blow a cover the way Cheney and his henchlings did. You have to be a Republican to be traitor enough to do something like that.

  249. 287

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I happened to see the puddle @283 because I had to step over it to get into this thread. I’m not going to bother replying to putz’s other puddles in this thread because they contain nothing worth replying to. In fact, I didn’t even read them. I had better things to do this afternoon than read putz-spew. Mrs. Rabbit and I just got home from watching “Hunger Games.”

  250. 288

    Puddybud spews:

    Apparently the dumb wabbit hasn’t been paying attention to the Pakistani facts. Maybe the dumb wabbit is in a Cuyahoga County frame of mind again. Hillary Clinton is petitioning the Pakistanis to react differently. They gave the doctor a 33 year sentence for his part in the Bin Laden episode. Republican? U R a moron as always!

    If you don’t understand the link between the dumb wabbit and Cuyahoga County, it has something to do with DUMMOCRAPTS leading the county when the dumb wabbit thought otherwise. It was a real hoot.

    Hunger Games eh? Oh my some many comments come to mind!


  251. 289

    Puddybud spews:

    BTW dumb wabbit,

    Steve and I were having a conversation… something lost on an old fart such as yourself.

  252. 290

    Steve spews:

    The way I see it, a race baiter is a racist. What other kind of person would do that shit? Is Bob a racist? I consider him to be a far more vile racist than some white people I know who regularly spew the “N” word.

    One guy I know, an Irish/American, has lived in Rainier Valley since the days when it was mostly an Italian/Irish community with a few other undesirables thrown in for good measure. He likes to hunker down at night with his police radio to see what the “niggers” are up to that night. But this same guy has life-long black best friends. One very old black friend of his who was down on his luck and his health failing – he gave him a home to live in and drove him to his medical appointments several times a week. And then he’d go back and listen to his radio and rant about the damned niggers, those Bloods and Crips who have ruined his neighborhood.

    Is Bob a racist? I’d say that the race baiter is indeed a racist. More emphatically so because he doesn’t show me a single fucking redeeming quality. Nothing. Nada! Is my old Irish “nigger”-spewing friend a racist? I really don’t think so. But he sure as hell doesnn’t like those damned Bloods and Crips.

    Besides, anybody who knows anything knows that whoever it was who let the damned Irish into this country is the guy who really fucked this place up. Heh.

  253. 291

    Steve spews:

    I used to walk into the inspector’s trailer at the Stanford University construction site trailer to find my electrical inspector, Roger, an old WWII vet, in a full blown rant about, “those goddamned niggers!” Then I would look at his black secretary, one of the loveliest women I’ve ever known, exchange a knowing look, we’d roll our eyes and then crack up laughing. She loved that guy as I did, and he wasn’t a damned racist. He just had a very limited vocabulary and he didn’t like Bloods and Crips either. But he sure was hilarious when he went into those rants of his. In fact, he taught me a lot about cussing like a old WWII vet. Before that I cussed more like a South Chicago pimp. Too much Iceberg Slim, I’d guess.

  254. 292

    Steve spews:

    And then back in the early 70’s there was my friend Dave and I, him a black guy, and us sitting in a basement in Boulder, of all places, listening to Richard Pryor records. We’d get into mama jokes, calling each other “Nigga”, and having a fucking blast. And I tell ya, Dave was really impressed with my South Chicago pimp dialect, which I took to mean that it was spot on. Were we a couple of racists? Good fucking grief no. We were a couple of guys who had moved so far beyond racial hangups that we could be silly about it.

    But Bob? I think he’s got issues. That “white militias roaming the streets of Detroit” wetdream of his is just too fucking weird. Yeah, I say he’s got issues. He’s a racist.

  255. 293

    Michael spews:

    I lived in Boulder for a little while in the early 90’s. That is one very white town.

  256. 294


    dwell on Tea Party Racism while giving a pass to left wing racism.

    Like I said, anything to distract from their own stink.

    Your beloved Beck said the tea party is RACIST!

  257. 295

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @288 I’d guess conservatives won’t like “Hunger Games;” it’s a metaphor for Wingnut World.

  258. 296

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @289 If you want to keep your conversations with Steve private, use the phone. And if you don’t want me stepping over your puddles, quit your pissing in this thread.

  259. 297

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    New research shows Republicans and Democrats are biologically different.

    [But that’s obvious; we’ve known for years that Republicans have small brains or no brains — RR.]

    “Dr Dodd tested how 46 self-professed right- and left-leaning Nebraskans react to a series of 33 images. Some were associated with negative feelings: a spider on a man’s face (fear), an open wound with maggots (disgust) and a man being beaten up by a mob (anger). Others — a smiling child, a bowl of fruit or a cute rabbit — were picked to evoke a warm and fuzzy sensation ….”

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: I’ll bet subjects who shot the rabbit were Republicans every time.

  260. 298

    Puddybud spews:

    listening to Richard Pryor records

    We also had the full Red Foxx collection. We had our friends over and we cracked up, until momma came into the room and was livid. Funny times back in the 70s.

  261. 299

    Puddybud spews:

    If you want to keep your conversations with Steve private, use the phone. And if you don’t want me stepping over your puddles, quit your pissing in this thread.

    Not too many peeps listen to Dumb Wabbits anymore.

    Hop on outta here!

  262. 300

    Steve spews:

    @298 Redd Foxx records! The only places those were sold in Seattle was in the black record stores Jackson and a couple of other places on Skid Road. Most people have no idea of the career he had prior to Sanford and Son.

  263. 301

    Steve spews:

    @293 Very white, Michael. Dave was the only black in town. Just kidding. There was a soul food place in a house owned by a black family on Maple Street, I think it was, and at about 10th. And there were a few black atheletes on campus who I and maybe nobody else never saw.

    The first time I went to the soul food place the lady asked if I wanted mild or regular sauce on my ribs. “Don’t you have hot sauce?” “I don’t think you want that” “No, I want to try the hot sauce!” “Okay, you asked for it.” Lordy, I took one bite and I must have started screaming. She didn’t say a word, but her stern look said, “I told that was going to be too hot for you, but you ain’t going nowhere, son, until you’ve licked that plate clean!”

    I lived at the corner 5th and Hapgood Streets and would walk to work, passing the old house on 5th where some already old hippies were making Celestial Seasoning Tea, through the park along the creek to my office on Pearl and Broadway. It was the most pleasant commute of my life.