1. 1

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Look for John McPopulist to claim he was against the bailout all along because it was unfair to Main Street.

  2. 2

    proud leftist spews:

    The most important judgment John McCain made after becoming the Republican nominee was his choice as VP. We’re talking judgment, and judgment is far more important than experience. I know that as a lawyer and an employer. McCain blew it, he blew it big time. Sarah Palin is not a serious person, she is a freaking joke. It isn’t about defending her, my Republican friends. It is about defending McCain. Defend that choice. Tell me how he put “Country First” in selecting Sarah Palin as his VP. If McCain was capable of feeling shame, he should feel a whole lot of it right about now.

  3. 3

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    McCain’s cynical, self-serving selection of Palin reflects the unfortunate fact the he’s become a sad hollow shell of his former self.

    Oh wait, he never was anything more than a spoiled, pampered, ne’er-do-well playboy who play-acted at being a serious politician as if it were a movie role.

  4. 4

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Look for Sarah Populist to claim that America was saved from tax-and-spend Democrats by the Republicans who voted against the bailout.

  5. 5

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Look for the wingnut talking heads to claim that what America needs now is to unchain capitalism so free markets can work their magic.

  6. 6


    What’s free about markets that are dominated by monopolies?

    I remember in the 80’s when the rules on small businesses designating workers as independent contractors was changed — except for insurance companies.

    How conveeeeenient! Free markets , my ass.

  7. 7

    proud leftist spews:

    Neocons think tax-cuts are the answer to everything. They are like the wayward husband who thinks blow jobs are the answer to everything. “Sorry, dear, I lost my job. Give me a blow job and everything will be alright in the morning.” “Okay, I guess I shouldn’t have groped her, honey, but give me a blow job, and we can forget about that.” “Well, Mr. President, you give me a tax-cut and I’ll give you a blow job and things will work out, don’t you think?” Sorry, folks, you have lost the economic argument by the vote today. Whatever “Reaganomics” was, it ain’t no more. May it rest in Hell.

  8. 8

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    7. proud leftist spews:
    Neocons think tax-cuts are the answer to everything.

    Not just neocons… Some guy named John F Kennedy also thought so.
    Used to be a time democrats respected John F Kennedy…

    In the area of taxation, there is probably nothing that drives Democrats crazier than when they hear Republicans praise John F. Kennedy’s tax cut and compare their tax cuts to his. Unfortunately, Democrats keep running up against Kennedy’s own statements and actions, which show a clear parallel to Republican tax policies since 1980.

    Kennedy wouldn’t even be considered a democrat these days. Go figure.

  9. 9

    SeattleJew spews:

    Sorry Stamm but you got it backwards, WAY backwards.

    JFK would be very comfortable as a Dem today, though he would be a bit on the left.

    OTOH, YOU tell me which of the following would be comfortabler with the Dobsonite GOP …


    none of the above?

  10. 10


    “Kennedy wouldn’t even be considered a democrat these days. Go figure.”

    Goldwater, Nixon, and Reagan wouldn’t be considered Republicans these days. None of them had the necessary moral flexibility.

    It’s possibly the biggest problem the Republicans face right now — sincerity.

    When a Democrat objects to something, it’s because they think something is actually objectionable. When a Republican objects to something, it’s because it’s “not Republican,” and they’re seeking the most momentary of gotchas.

    George Burns once said, “The secret of acting is sincerity. If you can fake that, you’ve got it made.”

    Today’s Republican party is providing an object lesson in what happens when you can’t plausibly fake it.

    McCain chastises Obama with, “You don’t say that out loud.” And, by implication, “You keep it to yourself and lie through your teeth.” It was a very revealing look at McCain’s values in the debate. And how badly he’s doing, on his own terms.

  11. 11


    And, while I’m up writing anyway…

    One of the most egregious among his many blunders of fact during the debate was when Mr. McCain “corrected” Mr. Obama on a particular set of terms… while being blissfully unaware he was getting it wrong.

    From the transcript:


    OBAMA: (The soldiers in The Surge) have done a brilliant job, and General Petraeus has done a brilliant job. But understand, that was a tactic designed to contain the damage of the previous four years of mismanagement of this war.

    And so John likes — John, you like to pretend like the war started in 2007. You talk about the surge. The war started in 2003, and at the time when the war started, you said it was going to be quick and easy. You said we knew where the weapons of mass destruction were. You were wrong.

    You said that we were going to be greeted as liberators. You were wrong. You said that there was no history of violence between Shiite and Sunni. And you were wrong. And so my question is…

    LEHRER: Senator Obama…

    OBAMA: … of judgment, of whether or not — of whether or not — if the question is who is best-equipped as the next president to make good decisions about how we use our military, how we make sure that we are prepared and ready for the next conflict, then I think we can take a look at our judgment.

    LEHRER: I have got a lot on the plate here…

    MCCAIN: I’m afraid Senator Obama doesn’t understand the difference between a tactic and a strategy.


    McCain hasn’t been in the active military since 1981. And he was 894th out of 899 in his Annapolis class of 1958. So perhaps it’s understandable why he went astray.

    But, here’s what the Army currently says in field manual FM-3, Operations:



    2-4. The strategic level is that level at which a nation, often as one of a group of nations, determines national and multinational security objectives and guidance and develops and uses national resources to accomplish them. Strategy is the art and science of developing and employing armed forces and other instruments of national power in a synchronized fashion to secure national or multinational objectives. The National Command Authorities (NCA) translate policy into national strategic military objectives. These national strategic objectives facilitate theater strategic planning. Military strategy, derived from policy, is the basis for all operations (see JP 3-0). (emphasis in original)


    So, strategy is the big picture stuff. “We will be victorious in Iraq to foster democracy in the Middle East,” is a strategy. “We will address the threat of the Soviet Union by containing them in a cordon of surrounding allied countries,” is a strategy.

    Strategy answers the question, “What do you want?”



    2-5. The operational level of war is the level at which campaigns and major operations are conducted and sustained to accomplish strategic objectives within theaters or areas of operations (AOs). It links the tactical employment of forces to strategic objectives. The focus at this level is on operational art—the use of military forces to achieve strategic goals through the design, organization, integration, and conduct of theater strategies, campaigns, major operations, and battles. A campaign is a related series of military operations aimed at accomplishing a strategic or operational objective within a given time and space. A major operation is a series of tactical actions (battles, engagements, strikes) conducted by various combat forces of a single or several services, coordinated in time and place, to accomplish operational, and sometimes strategic objectives in an operational area. These actions are conducted simultaneously or sequentially under a common plan and are controlled by a single commander. Operational art determines when, where, and for what purpose major forces are employed to influence the enemy disposition before combat. It governs the deployment of those forces, their commitment to or withdrawal from battle, and the arrangement of battles and major operations to achieve operational and strategic objectives. Figure 2-1 illustrates the link between the levels of war and the plans and actions of military forces. (emphasis in original)


    Tactics, then, answers the question, “How are you going to get what you want?”

    From this definition, it’s clear The Surge is a major operation. It’s a series of tactical operations, with the strategic goal of keeping violence in Iraq at a manageable level while the political infrastructure is built by the Iraqis.

    Tactically it’s been a great success. Petraeus and his troops have executed very well.

    But strategically it’s been a failure. Because instead of taking advantage of the relative calm The Surge has provided them, the Iraqi political leadership has stalled in so many different ways to make Congress’ performance this week the very model of effectiveness. (Thus the ghost of Garrison Keillor: “It could always be worse…”)

  12. 12


    More than that… I’m not alone in noticing this. Jim Fallows quotes “a retired (1999) Army colonel” to the same point. Even more damningly, in some ways, was this post by Jim on McCain’s personal ignorance of strategy vs. tactics:

    “There has been no greater contrast between the Obama and McCain campaigns than the tactical-vs-strategic difference, with McCain demonstrating the primacy of short-term tactics and Obama sticking to a more coherent long-term strategy. And McCain’s dismissive comment suggests that he still does not realize this.”

    And remember, folks… The military stuff is what McCain thinks he’s good at.

  13. 13

    busdrivermike spews:

    Oh look at post #8, or as I call it, the latest version of Marvin Stamm the dumbass:

    Kennedy did push tax cuts, and his plan, which passed in February 1964, three months after his death, did help spur economic growth. But they’re wrong to see the tax reduction as a supply-side cut, like Reagan’s and Bush’s; it was a demand-side cut. “The Revenue Act of 1964 was aimed at the demand, rather than the supply, side of the economy,” said Arthur Okun, one of Kennedy’s economic advisers.

    This distinction, taught in Economics 101, seldom makes it into the Washington sound-bite wars. A demand-side cut rests on the Keynesian theory that public consumption spurs economic activity. Government puts money in people’s hands, as a temporary measure, so that they’ll spend it. A supply-side cut sees business investment as the key to growth. Government gives money to businesses and wealthy individuals to invest, ultimately benefiting all Americans. Back in the early 1960s, tax cutting was as contentious as it is today, but it was liberal demand-siders who were calling for the cuts and generating the controversy.

    You were saying, dumbass?

  14. 14



    Get off your lazy ass and write an original post. Stop scouring the web for articles and videos to lift in order to repost here. Yeah, I know, thinking is hard, and writing original pieces takes way more work than stealing someone else’s work, but I’m sick you and Goldy taking the lazy way out all the time.

    “But that’s why Goldy hired a real writer, Geov, to bring some credibility back to HA.”

    Bullshit. Just sit down, think of an issue, then write about it, from top to bottom. Don’t cut and past parts or all of the post idea from someplace else. Create something original, from scratch.

    This is a homework assignment I’m giving you and Goldy. I will be grading you.

  15. 15

    Puddybud spews:

    Since this is an open thread, let me put this out to the HA lefties.

    Seems to me reading from various web sites 95 Donkey members voted against Nancy Pelosi. Why?

    They are vulnerable. If they are vulnerable, how come? I thought this was to be a “landslide year for Donkey, per yelling loser boy, pusdrivendyke, rudejackASS, rhp6033, nevercorrectnottobright, and other loser lefties. Why peeps? You all control the house with 12 more votes than needed for a majority. How can the minority party control anything? Your glorious leader The Ice Queen of Narnia Nancy Stretch Pelosi is doing such a wonderful job. I loved her speech. She sank the bill.

    Good job Nancy!

  16. 16

    Puddybud spews:

    How come no one here wants to discuss Saul Alinsky’s son out Barack Obama as a Alinskyite?

    “Barack Obama’s training in Chicago by the great community organizers is showing its effectiveness. When executed meticulously and thoughtfully, it is a powerful strategy for initiating change and making it really happen. Obama learned his lesson well.”

    “I am proud to see that my father’s model for organizing is being applied successfully beyond local community organizing to affect the Democratic campaign in 2008,” the author said. “It is a fine tribute to Saul Alinsky as we approach his 100th birthday.” – Lee David Alinsky, son of Saul and Barack’s mentor!

    Scary shit peeps.

  17. 17

    Puddybud spews:

    Did you know the bill that went down in flames did NOT cap CEO pay?

    Did you know the bill that went down in flames put money only for UNION pensions?

    Did you know the bill would allow Congress to get more money than the $700 Billion if they needed it without your approval?

    Now you know some of why it flamed out. Remember Donkey control the house by more than 12 members yet these Donkey who voted no know they are vulnerable! Why is that in a “landlslide watershed” year for the Donkey?

  18. 18

    Puddybud spews:

    Did you know Barack Obama worked for a subsidiary of the radical Gamaliel Foundation. Gamaliel Foundation? Ahhhhhhhh yes, another Chicago-based Saul Alinsky group. Did you know Barack was paid the Woods Fund? This radical group supports Gamaliel.

    Yes, Barack has hoodwinked you leftist pinheads!

  19. 19

    Puddybud spews:

    Looks like the Times of London called it right again eventhough losers like HAs clueless irrational idiot yelling loser boy will editorialize the truth…

    “It was perhaps the costliest ad lib in political history, 90 seconds of ill-judged, ill-timed bile that helped to kill off any hope of consensus on Capitol Hill.”

    Yes it was.

  20. 20

    Puddybud spews:

    Here’s something to wake up even the most dead kool-aid drinking lefty:

    Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) – “Through nearly a dozen hearings where, frankly, we were trying to fix something that wasn’t broke, Mr. Chairman, we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac, and particularly at Fannie Mae, under the outstanding leadership of Mr. Frank Raines.”

    Rep. Lacy Clay (D-MO) – “This hearing is about the political lynching of Franklin Raines.”

    Oh there are more clips out there lefties.

  21. 22

    Puddybud spews:

    Don Manzullo, (R-IL) “Mr. Raines, 1.1 million bonus and a $526,000 salary. Jamie Gorelick, $779,000 bonus on a salary of 567,000.”

    Jamie Gorelick – Hmmm…? Where have I heard that name before? Oh I know I know teacher…

    9/11 Commission…

  22. 23

    Puddybud spews:

    Wow this can’t be true. Donkey would never do this…

    False Signatures Aided Fannie Mae Bonuses, Falcon Says

    ” Fannie Mae reported paying the following executive bonuses in 1998: chairman and chief executive James A. Johnson received $1.932 million; Franklin D. Raines, chairman-designate, received $1.11 million; Chief Operating Officer Lawrence M. Small received $1.108 million; Vice Chairman Jamie S. Gorelick received $779,625; Chief Financial Officer J. Timothy Howard received $493,750; and Robert J. Levin, an executive vice president, received $493,750.

    Raines and Howard were ousted by the Fannie Mae board in December after the chief accountant of the Securities and Exchange Commission agreed with OFHEO’s criticism of the company’s accounting, including the 1998 bonus maneuver. He directed the company to correct financial statements, a move that could wipe out $9 billion in reported profit dating to 2001.”


  23. 24

    Puddybud spews:

    Well this is from the lefty news source, so it has to be credible:

    Former Fannie Mae chief Franklin Raines and two other top executives are paying a total of nearly $31.4 million in a settlement with the government announced Friday over their roles in a 2004 accounting scandal.

    Raines, former Fannie chief financial officer Timothy Howard and former controller Leanne Spencer were accused in a civil lawsuit in December 2006 with manipulating earnings over a six-year period at the company, the largest U.S. financer and guarantor of home mortgages.

    Raines, a prominent Washington figure who was President Clinton’s budget director, has agreed to pay $24.7 million, including a $2 million fine and relinquishing of company stock options valued at $15.6 million.

    Wow, where did he get all that money? Lootingh Fannie Mae. Who does he work for as an advisor? Barack Obama!

    Nuff Said!

  24. 29

    Puddybud spews:

    Yes yelling loser boy, the truth puts you to sleep. Go to sleep HAs clueless irrational idiot.

  25. 31

    Puddybud spews:


    Yes I did. I delivered it to the HA leftist loons when CNN first broke the story… weeks ago. Glad you are paying attention!

  26. 33

    Puddybud spews:

    Troll, did you see how much Cindy and John give to charity?

    Blows you away how cheep Donkey are!

  27. 34

    YLB spews:

    Obama spokesman Bill Burton added an attack:

    This is another flat-out lie from a dishonorable campaign that is increasingly incapable of telling the truth. Frank Raines has never advised Senator Obama about anything — ever. And by the way, someone whose campaign manager and top advisor worked and lobbied for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac shouldn’t be throwing stones from his seven glass houses.

    I love the stench of right wing bullshit in the morning.. It smells like..

    Victory! for the Democrats..

  28. 35

    michael spews:

    From Fire Dog Lake
    GOP In Disarray, Won’t Follow McCain
    Jane Hamsher Tuesday September 30, 2008 7:00

    No matter what you want to say about the bailout, the Democratic leadership managed to actually lead. The Republicans agreed to a bill and then couldn’t deliver the votes they promised. Now every Republican congressman you’ve never heard of is engaging in triumphalism before the cameras, claiming success in bringing the bill down.

    This morning John Shadegg (R-AZ) was just on Morning Joe saying Boehner’s excuse for the bill not passing — GOP House members having their tender feelings hurt by Nancy Pelosi’s speech — was a crock of shit. He said he couldn’t name one member of the House who pulled their vote because of it. That lack of total dicipline never would’ve been imaginable in the GOP just a short while ago.

    Then McCain came on and Scarborough asked him about Shadegg’s assertion that this was a smackdown of Hank Paulsen. McCain gave that creepy wheezing laugh of his that he always does when he’s uncomfortable and started blathering worse than Sarah Palin about how he has a comprehensive energy plan and he won’t pass earmarks and a bunch of other irrelevant boilerplate “maverick” horseshit.

    Bottom line — McCain came to Washington to lead, and nobody followed. How can you claim you will work in a “bipartisan” fashion, my friends, when your own party has no respect for you and has no interest in anything you have to say?

  29. 36

    Puddybud spews:

    yelling loser boy@34: Washington Post business reporter, Anita Huslin wrote about it.

    Raines admits: “taken calls from Barack Obama’s presidential campaign seeking his advice on mortgage and housing policy matters.”

  30. 38

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    40. Mr. Cynical spews:
    “I bought NOV late today @ $43.85.
    Just got the confirmation.

    Glad to see someone else can see Gold Nuggets while the angry, glass half empty KLOWNS only see dispair. Sucks to be them!

    09/29/2008 at 3:27 pm”

    Hey Rog Rabbit–
    Just sold the NOV for $47.85.
    Made $4/share or $8,000…in one day

    How many times must I counsel you KLOWNS on the endless money-making opportunities in this volitile market to buy on panic selling??!
    Sucks to be you KLOWNS…mired in despair.
    Wishing & hoping for something to whine about.
    The worse the news, the more you KLOWNS salivate. It’s sick.

    Give money to your local Food Banks.
    They really don’t want your old crappy canned goods…they want & need MONEY! They can buy surplus stuff at huge discounts and it’s easier for them to handle stock that way rather than sorting thru various cans.
    Give today!

  31. 39

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    I’m sure you KLOWNS gnash your teeth every time I post my stock buys & sells…right?
    Get off the sidelines.
    Take risks…’s only money.

  32. 40

    Puddybud spews:

    So who leads Goldman Sachs and who receives from Goldman Sachs?

    Goldman Sachs Group Inc (GS.N) rejected as “seriously misleading” a published report on Sunday that said the Wall Street bank had as much as $20 billion of exposure to the troubled insurance giant American International Group Inc (AIG.N).

    The New York Times had said Goldman was AIG’s largest trading partner, citing six people close to the insurer. It also said a collapse of AIG threatened to leave a hole of as much as $20 billion in Goldman, citing several of the people.

    The report contrasted with a Sept 16 comment by David Viniar, Goldman’s chief financial officer, on a conference call with analysts that Goldman’s exposure to AIG was immaterial.

    Hours after he spoke, the U.S. government announced an $85 billion bailout of AIG, which had suffered spiraling losses on credit default swaps, a type of insurance contract whose value is tied to securities such as mortgages and corporate debt. A failure of AIG might have convulsed the global financial system because many companies do business with it.

    Lucas van Praag, a Goldman spokesman, on Sunday said the Times article was wrong to suggest that Goldman had reason to be concerned about AIG’s problems.

  33. 45

    Rujax! spews:

    Here’s your rethuglicant success story:

    DOW January 19, 2001: 10,587.59
    DOW September 29, 2008: 10,365.45

    NASDAQ Jan 19, 2001 = 2770.38
    NASDAQ September 29, 2008 = 1983.73

    CPI, January 19, 2001: 175
    CPI, September 29, 2008: 219

    Dollar exchange with Euro, January 19, 2001: 1.068
    Dollar exchange with Euro, September 29, 2008: .695

    (cadged from via The Slog)

    OH…and the Constituional Amendment authorizing “Prayer in Schools”? Where’s that?

    How ’bout that “Balanced Budget Constituional Amendment”? Oh…

    Yeah right…

    …that Constituional Amendment banning abortion? Oooops…I guess the rethuglicant “leadership” forgot. Like Santa “forgot” you at Christmas puddybitch.

    You got PLAYED, man…and yer gonna vote for Col. Sanders AGAIN! ALL you dumbshits.

    And you guys WONDER why we make fun of you here.

  34. 47

    rhp6033 spews:

    I’m not sorry the plan failed. The more that was known about it, the more it stank. All it did was give an unprecedented transfer of U.S. taxpayer money to the Treasury Dept. to use at it’s sole discretion, with minimal (damn near non-existent) oversight and protections. The Treasury was going to buy up a lot of bad loans, hope that some of them turned out to be good loans down the road, and the Wall Street firms would have been free to load up on another batch of bad loans in time for the next bailout.

    The compensation restrictions were a joke. Right after the bailout, the Wall Street executives would see a huge increase in the stock values of their firms, resulting in huge profits to be made form their stock options. The limits on CEO pay would have done nothing to prevent that.

    Finally, and perhaps most importantly, the plan did nothing to address the underlying problem. It’s not Wall Street stock prices. It’s the deflation of housing values, which is putting so many homes in risk of foreclosure. Sure, some areas needed to see prices reduced to more reasonable levels. But the current spiral of foreclosure-causes-deflation-causes-more foreclosures – causes more deflation (ad infinitum) needs to be stopped. We can do that with some emergency regulations relating to foreclosures in the housing markets – there are lots of options available there.

    But I find it hilarious to see the Republicans scurrying to-and-fro trying to get anyone to believe that this was anything other than a Republican train wreck. It’s similar to the Katrina/FEMA situation, where the public saw the disparity between the White House pronouncements and what was actually happening, and realized that their President was either lying through his teeth or woefully ignorant (or both). During Katrina, that moment occured when after three days of 24 hour news coverage of the desperate situation of citizens in New Orleans, Pres. Bush went on TV and announced that he had “just learned” of the situation in the Superdome and Convention Center. Even Fox News anchors couldn’t conceal the dropped-jaw look of astonishment when he said that. In the current crisis, it was the statements made two weeks ago by both McCain and Bush that the economy was “fundamentally sound”, replaced with panic a few hours later as the bottom dropped out of the stock market.

  35. 48

    rhp6033 spews:

    Puddy’s been away for a couple of days, he’s tring to catch up with posting all the talking points he receives from Karl Rove in his e-mail each morning.

    Hint to Puddy: Go back and read Rove’s instructions. You aren’t supposed to post them all at once. You are supposed to post them in little snippets, speading them around like drop droppings, and hoping somebody steps in them.

    You really gotta laugh at Puddy trying to link Goldman Sachs to the Democrats. Hey Puddy, what did Bush’s current Treasury Secty do before he joined the Bush political machine? Did you say “CEO of Goldman Sachs”??????? It was HIS plan which was just voted down, wasn’t it?????

  36. 49

    rhp6033 spews:

    Back to Sarah Palin;

    McCain took Palin back on CBS News to try to make up for some of the damage done by the previous interview with Katie Couric. I guess they thought that McCain could step in and prevent Palin from putting her foot in her mouth.

    Katie Couric pointed out that Palin had said they would go after Osama Bin Laden and Al Quida in Pakistan if it were necessary, even though John McCain had just loudly condemned Obama for saying the same thing a couple of months ago. (McCain gave his “grandfatherly lecture” that you don’t say those things out loud, even if you plan to do it anyway).

    McCain tried to rescue Palin by saying it was a “gotcha” question, without Palin having had an opportunity to think or respond. Palin jumps in and says “absolutely….”

    In other words, we are supposed to ignore everything she says, unless it has been vetted and approved in advance by the McCain campaign team????

    I have this uncomfortable feeling that we are being set up. Despite her obvious lack of qualfifications, nobody could get to be governor and be this bad at dealing with the press, could they?

    I’m wondering if she is just appearing dumber than she really is, so that expectations of her performace will be close to zero, an impossibly low bar which even she should be able to meet or exceed. Then as long as she gets through the debate without making a major gaffe, the headlines will be all about how she did “better than expected”, ignoring the rather obvious fact that Bidden is far more qualfied for the job than she is.

  37. 50

    Rujax! spews:

    Fuck! This market’s dropped 25% since January. That’s some GREAT managin’ there…boy-howdy!!!!

  38. 51

    Mark the racist redneck republican goat fucker spews:

    The Republicans are a loathsome group. And they stopped that bailout bill for the wrong reasons. But I am grateful to them for doing so.

    I agree that the economy is in trouble. But this huge giveaway is not the answer. Congress should treat wall street the same way the government treats an applicant for food stamp: Make them disclose every penny in assets they have and then give them only the bare minimum to survive.

  39. 52

    Rujax! spews:

    Like Lil’ Ol Bushie managed his oil companies…and his baseball team. Right into the fucking ground.

  40. 54

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    47. rhp6033 spews:
    I’m not sorry the plan failed. The more that was known about it, the more it stank.

    I’m with you on that rhp.
    So why did the vast majority…nearly 65% of Dem Congressmen vote YES???
    And why did nearly 70% of Republican’s vote NO?

    Welcome to the Republican Party rhp.
    The R’s have a tent just big enough to handle a few KLOWNS too!

    Your posts on the market presume people buy and hold. That is stupid during volatile economic times. I have done some very profitable short term trades buy on major dips…overreactions. Like today…I bought NOV late yesterday and sold today making $8,000.
    What’s wrong with that??

  41. 55

    rhp6033 spews:

    Cynical @ 54: I strongly suspect that we both hated the plan for opposite reasons.

    So why did more Democrats vote for the plan, and more Republicans vote against it?

    (a) Because our nation’s President asked the Democrats to put partisonship aside and vote for the plan to save our nation’s economy. More Democrats hated the plan but voted for it anyway. Republicans looked at the leader of their party and our nation and said “screw you!”

    (b) The leadership of both parties gave permission to Congressmen who had contested seats to vote against the instructions of the leadership. In other words, if it looked like you’re re-election is in doubt, you can vote against the plan, as long as a majority still exists to vote for the plan. Apparantly a lot more Republicans than Democrats thought their re-election was in doubt.

    (c) The Republicans pulled a “Lucy”. After many public pronouncements that the sky was going to fall if the plan wasn’t adopted, after warning the Democrats that if they didn’t vote for the plan the Republicans would use it as campaign fodder and blame the Democrats for the resulting crisis, after pledging bi-partison cooperation to help resolve this national crisis, and after days and nights of hard-won compromises in negotiations to put back SOME manner of limitations on the plan, just when the Democrats (Charlie Brown) ran up to kick the ball, the Republicans (Lucy) pulled it away. Now the Republicans are trying to use the Democratic votes in favor of the plan against them in the current election cycle.

    It’s beginning to look like a setup. Maybe not the whole crisis, but sometime over the weekend polling numbers showed how angry the public was, and the Republican machine decided to distance themselves from this plan, even while they Party leadership and White House publically supported it.

  42. 56

    proud leftist spews:

    From Chuck Todd today at First Read:

    “*** “Lord of the Flies” inside the GOP: So who runs the Republican Party? Apparently nobody. Perhaps the most startling political development was the amazing lack of leadership on the GOP side of the aisle. Let’s run down the list of Republican leaders who attempted to persuade skeptical House Republicans: President Bush, John McCain, Dick Cheney, and John Boehner. (We’d add Newt Gingrich to this list, but no one is quite sure if his last-minute support was actually cover for his behind the scenes whipping against the bill.) Bush’s leadership and trust issues within his party has been evidenced for quite some time, and the icing on the Bush legacy cake is that fact that he could only convince FOUR Texas House Republicans to support his bill. And then there’s John McCain, who last week decided to insert himself into the process and then (before the bailout failed) took credit for getting wavering House Republicans on board. Perhaps he did get a few wayward House GOPers on board — but it wasn’t enough. Now McCain gets a double stomach punch: He’s stuck being seen as supportive of this bailout (which isn’t exactly popular with the conservative grassroots) and he gets to share in the blame for the defeat since he didn’t have enough political capital to get this done (By the way, not a single member of the Arizona GOP delegation voted for this bill). Watching the McCain campaign deal with this yesterday, one could sense that they were fearful that they were going to look inept and take an even deeper political wound than they sustained last week.”

  43. 57

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @8 It’s apples-to-oranges, Marvin, because marginal tax rates were much higher in JFK’s day.

    You Republicans like stimulus so much, you’ll keep stimulating yourselves until your dicks fall off.

  44. 58

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @57 (continued) Paying for tax cuts with deficits is a path to inflation and recession, not prosperity — as is happening now thanks to the reckless fiscal policies of Bush and the GOP congress..

  45. 59

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    I hated the plan because it was still too much of an open checkbook. And I didn’t see any consequences for the Wall Street Perpetrators who created this mess… bundling & selling & re-selling ad infinitum substandard loans for huge commissions.

    Perhaps there is some commonality for why we opposed this plan?

    Pelosi’s partisan tirade did not help.
    It was uncalled and silly.

  46. 60

    rhp6033 spews:

    Cynical said: “The Rs have a tent just big enough to handle a few KLOWNS too!”

    Thanks for the offer, but I suspect that that there is never a tent big enough to handle all the clowns that are already in the Republican Party.

    You’ve already got a three-ring circus there, complete with high-wire acts (“Watch Wall Street defy death, with only a taxpayer safety net to protect them!”, a bunch of clowns fitting into an impossibly small car (“there’s always room for more tax cuts!”), and animal acts (well, let’s not even go there).

  47. 62

    rhp6033 spews:

    Cynical @ 59: Well, I guess we do agree on something. I’m checking the temperature in Hell to see if they are having a cold spell right about now.

    As for “Polosi’s partison tirade”: If there was ever a time for a partison tirade, this was it. Pelosi had House Democrats were getting their arms twisted behind their backs to support the White House bill that nobody liked, to (hopefully) resolve a situation they didn’t create, with threats of dire consequences to the nation if they didn’t agree. It was a bitter pill to swallow. If they didn’t take that oportunity to complain, then they would have been foolish. GOP complaints about it are just political cover for a decision they had already made, based on polling over the weekend, to abandon the bill.

  48. 63

    Daddy Love spews:

    55 rhp

    So why did more Democrats vote for the plan, and more Republicans vote against it?

    Because John McCain cannot deliver his own party for a measure he favors. He’s as fucking useless as his dick.

  49. 64

    Daddy Love spews:

    62 rhp

    Besides which, the business community WANTS this bill and didn’t know that the Republican fuckheads were going to scuttle it for cheap political points. Watch for a bunch of Republican YEA votes to magically appear on Wednesday, once they get a full fucking earful from their backers.

  50. 65

    rhp6033 spews:

    DaddyLove @ 63:

    Yep, we are seeing the full value of Republican leadership in action.

    The President goes on TV what – three times in the past five days, and he can’t get his own party to agree to vote on the plan? That duck’s not just lame, it’s dead, de-feathered, and roasted.

    The Republican presidential nominee jets back to Washington to provide “leadership” on the bill, arrives just after an agreement in principle is reached, then after he arrives it falls apart, he leaves for the debate and leadership hammers it back together again, and then after he calls on Congress to pass it in a bi-partison manner, his own party rejects the bill.

    Kind of shows (a) that “crossing the aisle” leadership style is just so much window dressing, and (b) the “maverick reformer” doesn’t have enough gravitas to reform his own party, much less the country.

  51. 66

    YLB spews:

    Everything I’m reading is pointing to a complete meltdown of the McSame campaign and that corrupt ugly Republican party. The gasoline is really going to be poured onto the fire Thursday night.

    We are heading into silly season with wingnuts in total freak out mode!

  52. 67

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    19. Puddybud spews:
    Looks like the Times of London called it right

    The times of london…
    Doing the job the american press refuses to do.

  53. 68

    Steve spews:

    It’ll be on AC360 tonight that Palin hasn’t even visited the island from where the distant Russian island can be seen. In other words, Palin has flat out lied about her foreign policy experience.

  54. 69

    rhp6033 spews:

    Steve @ 68: Don’t say that! That’s my best chance for an appointment in the McCain administration!

    From my home, if I stand on the roof and look just right, I can see saltwater just off Everett, which roughly comes from the same ocean as that of Japan. I could be ambassador to Japan!

    My kids were in a rowing club. I could be Secretary of the Navy!

    I know how to fire a rifle. I could be chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff!

    The possibilities are endless!

  55. 70


    Here are Ms. Pelosi’s remarks.

    Someone want to tell me where the “partisan rant” that caused the Republicans to fuss so much is? Because to me it reads as dry-bones factual as a weather report.

    I’m reminded of Harry Truman — “I don’t give them hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it’s hell.”

  56. 72

    ArtFart spews:

    Hey, Puddy…thanks for bringing the Gamaliel Foundation to our attention.

    Is there a local chapter? Some of us sane people might want to join up.

  57. 74

    YLB spews:


    Awwww. Poor right wing manchildren got their feelings hurt by a girl and forgot about their country.

  58. 75

    The Real Puddybud spews:

    rhp6033 doesn’t remember anything past 24 hours.

    rhp6033 farted: “You really gotta laugh at Puddy trying to link Goldman Sachs to the Democrats. Hey Puddy, what did Bush’s current Treasury Secty do before he joined the Bush political machine? Did you say “CEO of Goldman Sachs”??????? It was HIS plan which was just voted down, wasn’t it?????”

    Goldman Sachs contributions – It will educate you rhp6033. Bookmark this site!

    You’ll also learn that Henry Paulson’s political contributions before he became Treas Secry were to Donkey BIG TIME.

    Also I posted his right hand man in

    Do you listen? Do you read? Do you understand facts? Do you actually think?

    I brought to you Eric Mindich. Who is Eric Mindlich? He was chairman of Eton Park Capital Management. He became head the Asset Managers’ Committee of the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets. Mindich is a top-level Democratic fundraiser. He was in Sen. John Kerry’s inner circle for the 2004 presidential campaign and backs Sen. Barack Obama for 2008.

    Nuff said rhp6033.

  59. 76

    The Real Puddybud spews:

    Hey ArtFart: Show just how much you know about stuff huh?

    Ignorant and still that way.

  60. 77

    The Real Puddybud spews:

    rhp6033: If I got my talking points from Karl Rove, I’d be paid.

    What a fool rhp6033 is.

  61. 78

    The Real Puddybud spews:

    rhp6033: the plan stunk. Well Puddy told you that.

    Notice the lies told by Reid and Pelosi last Friday. They didn’t have a bill. They knew they didn’t have the Donkey votes.

    What a crock.