1. 1


    From …

    “Court rules paper money unfair to blind.”

    In other court news, the court also ruled those cords on city buses that you pull to ring the bell are unfair to people without arms. Public transit agencies countered that people without arms could verbally notify the driver where they wanted off, but the court ruled that to people who are both mute and armless, the bell cords, at the very least, can regarded as “mocking indifference”, and at the most “outright blatant discrimination.”

  2. 3


    Hannah, the fake spitting incident was the most important thing you got from that article? What jumped out at me was that lady, and a lot of her Clinton-supporting friends, won’t be voting for Obama, no matter what.

  3. 4

    correctnotright spews:

    What kind of politicans claim they support the troops but vote against pay raises, refuse to give them body armor that works or humvees with armor for roadside bombs, make them have extended stays and unlimited recall to action and then vote against giving them what the vets got in WWII – a GI bill for education?

    Answer: George Bush, John McCain and other republicans. Lip service to really supporting the troops.

  4. 5

    "Hannah" spews:

    @3 – I noticed that too! But most here refuse to believe that could possibly happen, even when written in black and white. I don’t support Hillary (can’t stand her actually) but I could not fathom treating someone like that!

    Too many Clinton supporters are disgruntled by the way they have personally been treated by non-Clinton supporters, they will jump ship just out of spite. Sad!

  5. 6

    "Hannah" spews:

    Anyone know anything about the farm bill that just passed with flying “non-veto” colors?

    “The $307 billion farm bill that rolled through Congress is a perfect example of the pattern. Farm net income is up 56 percent over the past two years, yet the farm bill plows subsidies into agribusinesses, thoroughbred breeders and the rest.

    The growers of nearly every crop will get more money. Farmers in the top 1 percent of earners qualify for federal payments. Under the legislation, the government will buy sugar for roughly twice the world price and then resell it at an 80 percent loss. Parts of the bill that would have protected wetlands and wildlife habitat were deleted or shrunk.”

    Is it just me, or does this just make NO sense?

  6. 7

    YLB spews:

    6 – Post links to your sources like you did in 2 if you want people to take you seriously.

    Oops hardly anyone does – nevermind.

  7. 8


    Who is Barack Obama’s speech writer these days, Jimmy Carter?

    “We can’t drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times … and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK,” Obama said.

    “That’s not leadership. That’s not going to happen,” he added.

    If that’s not an appalling lack of belief in America, then I don’t know what is.

    Is he really proposing that our lifestyles should be the subject of some other country’s veto? That we must ask permission from, say, Algeria before we can have seconds on the mashed spuds?

    Implicit in his remarks is condemnation of us – that’s U.S. Somehow we’re wrong – it’s all our fault – and we need to be corrected by other countries.

    Oh, really???

    Next time there’s a need for large-scale aid somewhere, maybe we should instead have BHO admonish those who request it that perhaps they should learn to live with less, live colder, and consider it their contribution to environmental purity.

    As Ebenezer Scrooge said all that misery and death, “Serves to decrease the surplus population.”

    If elected, what part of the Presidential oath will he ignore in order to make the United States subservient to the likes of Lesotho, Indonesia, or Burkina Faso?

    Will he fly the U.N. flag atop the American flag at the White House?

    What changes will he propose in the traditional American Thanksgiving dinner? Substitute turkey with humble pie and crow?

    Just how bitter is he trying to make us? How hard is he driving us toward our guns and religion?

    This is the change we’ve been waiting for? This is the politics of hope? Gimme a break!

    Why should John McCain even bother campaigning when BHO says such stupid stuff?

    The Piper

  8. 9

    ArtFart spews:

    6 No, Hannah, it’s not just you. It’s dumb, really dumb, an example of the ghost of what may once have been a good idea perverted and exploited into a self-perpetuating monster. Kind of like military pork, except this involves actual pigs.

  9. 11

    ArtFart spews:

    8 Piper, the “veto” is already happening. It’s called four-dollar-a-gallon gas. Or did you fail to notice Bush went begging to King Abdullah and got told to go piss up a rope?

  10. 12

    Richard Pope spews:

    Piper Scott @ 8

    Good point. Why should John McCain even bother campaigning?

    Hardly anyone shows up for McCain rallies. When McCain spoke here back on February 8, less than 500 people attended his rally at the Westin Hotel.

    By contrast, Barack Obama drew a capacity crowd of over 20,000 people to the Key Arena on February 8. Obama drew 75,000 people to a rally in Portland just this past Sunday.

    McCain should simply skip public campaign rallies altogether. Limit his campaigning to fundraising dinners (especially those for $33,100 per plate!) and press conferences. And of course, run a lot of negative ads about Obama and all that. But no more sparsely attended McCain rallies.

  11. 14

    YLB spews:

    and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK,

    Ok to what? Smells like just more right wing out of context, quote cherry-picking B.S. to me.

  12. 15

    michael spews:

    Another Republican bites the dust!

    Mr. Fossella, 43, has been the object of intense scrutiny since he was arrested in a Washington suburb on May 1 and charged with drunken driving. At the time of his arrest, his blood alcohol level was reportedly 0.17 percent, twice the legal limit in Virginia. Under that state’s law, he faces a mandatory five days in jail if convicted.

    Until Monday, Mr. Fossella offered signals that he intended to seek a sixth full term in November. After two weeks of near-seclusion, he re-emerged into the Staten Island political scene, attending a Conservative Party dinner and a parade.

    But the pressure on him to forgo what would certainly have been a bruising re-election battle had been intense. Representative John A. Boehner of Ohio, the Republican minority leader, signaled his displeasure with the prospect of Mr. Fossella’s running again.

    Within hours of Mr. Fossella’s admission of an extramarital affair, Mr. Boehner contacted Daniel M. Donovan Jr., the Staten Island district attorney, to discuss the possibility of his running should Mr. Fossella resign or decide not to run again.

  13. 17

    "Hannah" spews:

    So we are going to give farm subsidies and then sell what we are buying for 80% below our purchase price? A complete loss!

  14. 18

    Rujax! spews:

    Scott’s lack of comprehension, understanding of current issues, and narrow nitpicking of Obama’s positions are typical and indicative of what passes for “Right-wing” or fake “Libertarian” “thought”.

    Good goin’, dumbshit.

  15. 19

    "Hannah" spews:

    @19 – Yeah can you believe those words came out of Bush’s mouth? What a sham of a speech! Typical politician, say what the people want to hear, do exactly opposite of what he says!

  16. 20

    Blue John spews:

    @8. Piper, sometimes I think you are being dense on purpose.
    “We can’t drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times … and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK,” Obama said.
    You don’t see his point? You don’t see that other countries are envious? You don’t see that other countries want what we think is our god given right?
    Can I live in your warp bubble of denial?

  17. 21



    How soon will Democrats endorse proposals to open all known reserves of domesic oil in the U.S.? Including, of course, Colorado oil shale?

    We’ve got some potential for increased production (need more refineries, too), but too many are too chicken to get out in front and provide leadership to go get the stuff.

    And while we’re at it and as long as he’s watching the Red Sox and eating chowdah in the hospital, let’s put up those wind turbines that Teddy Kennedy despises because they bugger his pristine view.

    The Piper

  18. 22

    Blue John spews:

    Hello Admin, Apparently the reference link I pasted, triggered the spam filter on #19. Please review and restore if you see fit.
    ( Where is the link to contact the admin, anyway? )

  19. 23

    ArtFart spews:

    Good last point. Sooner or later we’re going to be looking at trade-offs between building windmills on Cape Cod (and around Ilwaco, for that matter) and shaving the tops off the mountains in Roslyn to get the coal out from under them.

  20. 25



    Then enlighten me, guru…

    Tell me again how I’m supposed to gleefully cede my rights, liberties, and freedoms as an American to some foreign OK…

    Tell me how BHO can justify effectively relinquishing the sovereignty of the United States to other countries…

    What gives any other country the right to dictate to any American at any time what that American shall eat, what that American shall drive, and what temperature that American deems appropriate for his or her home and its comfort?

    A cartel that includes a thug like Hugo Chavez – that who will now tell us how to live our lives?

    I thought the President of the United States is supposed to pledge:

    “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

    Where in that is a President authorized to unilaterally knuckle to what other countries want?

    Instead of using what we have even though it might twist the knickers of many, we’re now to go back to the Carteresque days of malaise?

    What were Jimmy Carter’s re-election numbers again?

    How are those brogans tasting there, Barack?

    The Piper

  21. 26

    Rujax! spews:

    When the FUCK did Obama say ANYTHING that remotely resembles the absolute drivel in your post?

    How typical of you (and your fellow-travelers here) to take your vapid “Dori Monson” talking points and conflate them into some wet-dream conspiracy fantasy.

    Grow up for gawds sake. You’re not twelve anymore.

  22. 27

    Richard Pope spews:

    Piper Scott @ 21

    “let’s put up those wind turbines that Teddy Kennedy despises because they bugger his pristine view.”

    Maybe your prayers about Teddy Kennedy have been answered?

  23. 28

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @2 Would you spit in someone’s face for having supported Hitler? If so, where would you draw the line? (And if not, why not?) How bad must a politician be before his supporters deserve being spit on? Have George W. Bush’s supporters earned a good spitting? If not, how much more should we take before saying, “This has gone beyond mere differences of opinion! Patooey on you!”?

    (Simulated noises of rabbit spitting)

    Hey, I’m not promoting spitting or any other form of assault. But as a Republican masquerading as a Democrat while shilling for one of the most repulsive gangs of political thugs in America’s history, though, you should know Wingnut Hannah that you have earned the contempt of the liberals on this blog.

  24. 30



    What BHO said – his literal words – as an a free man and an American I find deeply offensive and antithetical to every notion of liberty, patriotism, and citizenship I understand.

    My life, the life of every American (including yours) should NEVER be subject to the OK of any foreign nation.

    Such a notion is despicable.

    The Piper

  25. 31

    Blue John spews:

    When the US is totally self sufficient, self contained, then we can tell the world to f–k off.

    Piper, do you REALLY feel that our lifestyle is sustainable, without changing anything we are doing?

  26. 32

    Rujax! spews:

    So when are the “Keyboard Kommando’s” gonna get their knickers in a knot over their hero “apologizing” for a soldier using a Koran for target practice?

    Calls for a bowl of popcorn!

  27. 33

    Rujax! spews:

    You sir, are the dumdest fuck on this site.

    What a narrow, moronic view of diplomacy and the use of power.

  28. 34

    Blue John spews:

    My life, the life of every American (including yours) should NEVER be subject to the OK of any foreign nation.

    Really? What if all the OPEC nations decided to stop selling us oil. What would you do?

  29. 35

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @3 What jumps out at me from various news articles is that a lot of Republicans won’t be voting for McCain, no matter what. He isn’t McSame enough for them. They want a Bush third term.

  30. 36



    I never wish ill health on anyone, including Ted Kennedy, so your snarky comment is a typical Pope cheap shot.

    Nevertheless, it is true that he personally stood in the way of the development of alternative energy resources simply because he didn’t want his view spoiled – typical liberal hypocrisy.

    The Piper

  31. 37

    "Hannah" spews:

    @28 – No I would not have spit on a Hitler supporter back then UNLESS I was a victim of Hilter’s policies and that person was an enforcer of Hitler’s policy.

    I do not support Hillary but I would never phathom spitting on a supporter. Just as I don’t support Bush and his ways, I would never spit on a Bush supporter, I will get into a verbal debate, but never resort to such childish behavior. This type of action shows us why our country is so screwed up…seems some who disagree with others find it ok to assault those persons they disagree with. So are we all supposed to be exactly alike in our chocies? Don’t we live in a country of free speech and choice? And yet you find it ok to verbally assault others who choose not to believe what you believe?

  32. 38

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Personally, I hope the Bush-third-termers stand in the forefront of every GOP rally from now on.

    I hope they wear their sentiments on their sleeves, and paste them on the bumper of every Republican’s car.

    And the more they trumpet their love for George W. Bush on the nation’s airwaves, the better!

  33. 39

    "Hannah" spews:

    @35 you say “What jumps out at me from various news articles is that a lot of Republicans won’t be voting for McCain, no matter what. He isn’t McSame enough for them. They want a Bush third term.”

    Which is it? Is he another GWB III or not? Most the time you claim McSame to be exactly that “McSame” another GWB, now you are saying alot of repuclicans won’t vote for him because he is not close enough?

  34. 40

    YLB spews:

    16 – Nope. That article does not contain the text you quoted in 6.

    Nice try. Thanks for playing.

  35. 41

    My Goldy Itches spews:

    You have to wonder, if Ted Kennedy were a conservative Republican how many of these classy enlightened leftists in here would be making fun of his brain tumor and taking bets on how long he lives. You people know who you are!

  36. 42

    ArtFart spews:

    25 Uh….where’s the clause in the Constitution which Mr. Bush is supposed to “preserve, protect and defend” that says Scott St. Clair has the inalienable right to drive his Suburban?

    There used to be a time when lots of Americans enjoyed the privelege (not necessarily the right) to “go west, young man”, build a sod cabin on some arbitrary piece of land and call it their own. That’s pretty much gone away ’cause all the land is spoken for. Instead of a “homesteader”, such a person would be called a “squatter”.

    Similarly, there was a time when we were able to do lots of things with resources we got mostly from within our own borders, or if we got them from elsewhere in the world, we had something we made here to sell those other folks. These days, the balance doesn’t look quite the same.

    Other societies got into such a pinch, and chose to force their neighbors at gunpoint to provide them with what they needed. Recent examples include Germany, Italy and Japan around the middle of the last century. Didn’t work out very well for them.

  37. 43



    How’s about off shore drilling, ANWR, Colorado oil shale, and technological innovation, something Americans have historically been good at.

    OPEC has been able to dictate to us because we’ve allowed it – we’ve failed to capitalize on resources we have, and we’ve failed to allow genuine, market-driven reforms.

    But we’ve run pall mall after stupid stuff like government subsidized ethanol, which has succeeded in driving up the cost of grains and making world hunger a larger problem.

    The secret to winning a game of chicken is knowing when to blink –

    The Piper

  38. 44

    "Hannah" spews:

    @36 – Piper, we have wind power here, granted over on the other side of the mountains, but that’s because that’s where it best produces wind energy. Can you point to an article where Kennedy stopped wind mill development because of his not wanting to lose his view?

  39. 45

    Another TJ spews:

    What BHO said – his literal words – as an a free man and an American I find deeply offensive and antithetical to every notion of liberty, patriotism, and citizenship I understand.

    That’s because you appear to be an idiot:

    If you had actually read from a reputable news source and not a bastion of hate and ignorance like Free Republic, you would have seen this:

    Pitching his message to Oregon’s environmentally-conscious voters, Obama called on the United States to “lead by example” on global warming, and develop new technologies at home which could be exported to developing countries.

    “We can’t drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times … and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK,” Obama said.

    “That’s not leadership. That’s not going to happen,” he added.

    Next time, try learning what Obama said before you attack him. You might not look so foolish.

  40. 46

    "Hannah" spews:

    @40 – the original quote keeps coming back as spam…go figure…go to seattle pi website and scroll down to commentary section and look for Farm Bill.

  41. 47

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @5 Keep dreaming, Wingnut Hannah! I voted for Clinton in my caucus, but I’m gonna vote a straight Democratic ticket in Novemnber, and everything I can to ensure our candidate (I assume it will be Obama) wins! Trust me, dearie, no Democrat anywhere is going to willingly hand another 4 years of power to GOP thugs!! November 2, 2008 will be America’s “Robert Mugabe moment” — the day we Democrats all act together to get rid of an evil dictator and his party of corrupt murderers.

  42. 48

    Blue John spews:

    Piper, when we don’t need other countries for their resources, then we can ignore them. Until then, we have to consider that they have at least some power over us. To think otherwise is madness.
    That’s like saying that your boss has no power over you, that you can do anything you want, come in late, leave early, take all the best donuts and he can never fire you.
    That’s like saying you can do what ever you want in your subdivision, and nothing you can do, use a majority of the well water, dump your lawn clippings in the town square or not pay your trash and electricity bills, and never expect the home owner’s association to take action, or even criticize you.

  43. 49

    Richard Pope spews:

    Oregon voter registration statistics:

    January 2008

    Democrat 764,255
    Republican 687,898
    Unaffiliated 436,070

    April 2008

    Democrat 869,538
    Republican 676,895
    Unaffiliated 412,942

    Anyone notice a trend here?

    And by the way,

    November 2004

    Democrat 820,602
    Republican 757,844
    Unaffiliated 470,579

  44. 50

    Blue John spews:

    if Ted Kennedy were a conservative Republican how many of these classy enlightened leftists in here would be making fun of his brain tumor and taking bets on how long he lives.

    I think that is a case of projection reversal. You would like to be doing it, so you claim the enemy is doing it. Is Rush and Dennis Miller already doing a Death watch count down? They are mean spirited enough to do that in the name of Conservative humor. Like Huckabee’s shooting “joke”.

  45. 51

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @6 B-b-b-u-t … aren’t all those salt-of-the-earth Republican farmers rugged individualists? Isn’t thoroughbred horse racing an icon of free-market capitalism?

    Sooo … how come it takes so many government subsidies to keep rugged individualism and free-market capitalism going?

    Just askin’ …

  46. 52

    "Hannah" spews:

    @51 – It makes no sense to spend millions in subsidies then to turn around and sell the produce at an 80% loss….although we are in the habit of giving away money to those who make the most.

  47. 53

    HNMT c'est moi spews:

    Among those of us who believe Ted Kennedy gives bloated plutocratic unearned and abused privilege a bad name, some of us extend best wishes or prayers to his family. Glioma (sp?) is the diagnosis. It’s malignant.

  48. 54

    Blue John spews:

    What gives any other country the right to dictate to any American at any time what that American shall eat, what that American shall drive, and what temperature that American deems appropriate for his or her home and its comfort?

    Money does. As long as we need to give them money so we can live the life we feel we should have, then they can criticize us. Notice how we don’t care one bit what Iceland thinks of us.
    Here is an individual example. A person works for a company. They have instituted a no smoking policy. Not no smoking on company ground, no smoking at all, at work or home. As long as that person HAS to stay with that company for their money, the company can dictate behavior.
    As long as other countries have something we want, they can TRY to dictate behavior.

  49. 55

    Richard Pope spews:

    So why does everyone keep calling “Hannah” a wingnut? Maybe her name isn’t really Hannah, but that doesn’t make her a Republican.

  50. 56

    My Left Foot spews:


    Piper, you just don’t get it do you? Very sad. He was speaking about energy and the planet and our use of way more than our share.

    It is typical of a Republican, you for example, to believe that you can have all you want as long as you are big and bad and powerful enough to take it.

    Some here thought you were smarter than that. I never did.


  51. 57

    YLB spews:

    Some people here are too generous towards the pooper.

    Now he plucks an out-of-context quote from the bowels of the wingnutosphere…

    It’s just too funny and sad.

  52. 58

    YLB spews:

    55 – She’s a big fan of “Puddyfacts” (wingnuttia) and Pacman’s “post-racial” society (try telling that to the wingnuts who come here).

  53. 59

    Rujax! spews:

    So The Crackpiper thinks we shouldn’t make a serious effort to end our dependence on fossil fuels that even his fearless leader acknowledges that are controlled by “folks who don’t like us very much”.

    How forward thinking and enlightened. Had the US taken Carter’s energy initiatives even HALFWAY seriously we would not be in the mess we’re in today.

    How does $5.00 per gallon to fill your SUV Mr. Puffy-Chest Saber Rattler? Like $6.00 better? For such a “smart” guy you’re pretty stupid.

  54. 61



    I don’t drive a Suburban – never have. My next car will be a Subaru Outback; I want something that will run for a million miles.

    But you miss my point entirely. This past year, I’ve severely limited my driving and turned down the thermostat all to cut my costs, but those were MY choices. I’ve also changed my diet, again MY choice.

    But I’ll be damned if I will submit my lifestyle or the lifestyle of any American to the OK of some other country that doesn’t, interestingly enough, reciprocate.

    The envy of others is no reason for me to change my way of life. If life in their country sucks so bad, spend less time bitching at me and more improving things at home.

    In other words, it’s about time for America to quit this classic enabling, co-dependent behavior.

    Domestic lifestyle decisions made by Americans are not the business of any other country, yet the left seems eager to submit to what only can be described as an S & M relationship – “Beat me harder, it feels so good!” – with the rest of the world without requiring them to wear black leather.

    Of course, over time and because of changed circumstances we alter our lifestyles. Ask any heart attack victim who’s forced to give up well marbled beef or someone who does the classic switch from butter to the popularly priced spread (can’t even call it margarine anymore) due to the increased price of the butter.

    But – and I’ll belabor this point until you people get it – those are effectively VOLUNTARY choices, not ones made because the prime minister and cabinet of Uzbekistan who think we all ought to drive Cooper Minis and eat pease porridge while shivering in 48 degree homes.

    How would you like it if the “world community” started telling you to do or not do certain other things? Telling you what you can or cannot think? How you can or cannot worship? That you can or cannot live where you please?

    Last time I checked, my passport said I was a citizen of the United States of America – I aim to keep it that way.

    The Piper

  55. 63

    "Hannah" spews:

    @YLB – Prove that I am a big fan of “Pacman’s “post-racial” society” I’ve never even had an online discussion with Pac-Man.

    Yes I like “PuddyFacts”, he points to facts and data and opens the door to actual discussion. He, for the most part, backs up his “opinions” with links. I have learned alot of history from his posted links. Besides, he is an Obama supporter (maybe not for good enough reasons for you), but he isn’t voting for McC.

  56. 64

    YLB spews:

    Thanks Hannah – how brave you are to point me to your source:

    A David Brooks screed. The guy is total right wing hack. The piece is an anti-Obama, pro-McCain hit job.

    Combine that with the time you quoted “Human Events”, another right wing nut rag and you’ve just about sealed your wingnut credentials.

    Thanks for playing.

  57. 65

    YLB spews:

    Yes I like “PuddyFacts”,

    Do you like his insinuation that contemporary progressives are for Eugenics?

  58. 66

    My Left Foot spews:

    Troll at 60:

    Fuck you!!

    I wouldn’t wish on you brain cancer.

    Of course you would have to have a brain for the cancer to invade.

    Lucky you!!

  59. 67

    "Hannah" spews:

    @64 – What are you rambling about? Show me this please.
    “Combine that with the time you quoted “Human Events”, another right wing nut rag and you’ve just about sealed your wingnut credentials.”

    I question ALL politicians…is that a problem? I quit questioning GWB along time ago, too much of a waste of time, since no one is doing anything about impeaching him…it will be over soon enough.

  60. 68

    YLB spews:

    Prove that I am a big fan of “Pacman’s “post-racial” society”

    My recollection was PacMan gave his “post-racial” speech and your response was:


    Still want me to prove it?

  61. 70

    "Hannah" spews:

    @68- so a one word response makes it so that I agree with it all??? I was saying WOW due to the context! All I can say to you now is WOW! You really ASSUME alot about people.

  62. 72

    My Left Foot spews:


    The more you open your mouth, the bigger fool you are showing yourself to be.

    I have noticed that as the election gets closer, as the writing on the wall shows that your man and your party is not gonna do so well, your rantings become more irrational and shrill.

    The fact is, PoopieHead, we can not continue to use the lion share of the worlds resources without some kind of international repercussion. Only a fool, PoopieHead, would try to convince himself otherwise.

    PoopieHead we just can’t fight the entire world. We are going to have to learn to play fairly.

    Of course we could always threaten them with nuke-u-lar annihilation. Lord knows the Chinese, Russians and North Korea would just stand by and watch.

  63. 73

    Blue John spews:

    “We can’t drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times … and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK,” Obama said.

    “Free Republic is the premier online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web”
    I’d love to see the whole speech. There is a “…” in that quote. Could have been a lot of stuff left out to make Obama look bad.

  64. 74

    My Left Foot spews:

    Hannah at too many to mention:

    You are an obvious wingnut masquerading here. Your blatant attempts to “appease” the right and argue only with those of us on the left is laughable.

    Pack it up, Sweetie. You are not fooling anyone.

  65. 76

    Richard Pope spews:

    YLB @ 64

    Don’t knock Human Events too much. That publication makes far more sense than George W Bush or McCain will ever be capable of.

    For example, Pat Buchanan criticizes Bush’s recent “Hitler speech” in the current issue. Buchanan points out that talking to heinous dictators can have good results and/or avert bad results. He points out that even Nixon, Reagan and even Bush Sr have talked with dictators far worse than Ahmadinejad, and that America was better off because of it.

  66. 77

    "Hannah" spews:

    YLB – Did I not say it was based on a commentary and did I also not provide other more unbiased news clips? WOW!

    Well I guess when I tried to link it and kept getting blocked for spam, musta been because the HA’s wouldn’t allow ME to post it, you must be special!

  67. 78

    "Hannah" spews:

    @76 – He’s only bashing the Human Events thing because he thought I posted it, yet has provided no such post of ME posting anything to do with Human Events.

  68. 79

    "Hannah" spews:

    @74 -Whatever…I refuse to argue my voting record with someone who refuses to have open debates, the more I question things, the more ammo I have to debate those voting for McC!

  69. 80

    ArtFart spews:

    61 Good on ya for doing the right thing, and as a matter of fact, there’s nothing wrong with doing it out of patriotism. Case in point: using more petroleum helps the Saudi oligarchs support al Queda and helps Hugo Chavez and Iran do all kinds of things I suspect you disapprove of. Think you’re avoiding the latter now that 7-Eleven switched suppliers? Guess again. Crude can change hands more than once while it’s in a tanker enroute, so where it came out of the ground has little bearing on where the money goes. So the only way you can reduce the oil profits going into the pockets of folks you don’t admire is to buy less of the product.

    If on the other hand you don’t want to be quite so parochial and think that by using less of a resource you’re at least indirectly reducing the suffering of poor kids in Kenya, that’s fine too. The main point is that our rights as Americans include “life liberty and the pursuit of happiness” only as is practical in the context of sharing a small planet with a bunch of other folks.

  70. 82

    My Left Foot spews:


    My voting record is clear. The last Republican that I voted for was Barry Goldwater, Jr. in the early to mid 70’s.

    I was 18 or 20 and just did not know any better. :)

    Just out of curiosity, I went to wikipedia to see what he is up to these days. I was struck by the picture of him. He is his fathers twin. Shit, I can remember what his father looked like. I am not getting any younger.

  71. 85



    The point you are missing is that, as a nation, we need to start taking the lead in conservation. That is what both President Carter and Senator Obama are saying.

    When conservation measures, such as higher average MPG are enacted, nobody is telling anyone that they cannot go buy and drive a Hummer, or that they cannot use it to drive alone on their 100 mile daily commute.

    But it will cost more, because the car companies will be given the option of either spending more to develop and market cars with better mileage, or paying hefty fines.

    Currently, the market rewards developing and marketing gas hogs, as there is more profit in them. Without an economic incentive in the other direction, little is likely to happen except some window dressing.

    Expect to see economic incentives developed for people willing to conserve energy at home. We already have some, and they’ve had some limited success. But… If someone wants to keep their house at a toasty 85 degrees all winter long, while keeping the windows open so that they can enjoy the fresh air, so be it. They should expect to pay through the nose for it, but it’s still their choice.

    Expect to see economic incentives to conserve, along with some disincentives to waste. If done right, enough people will voluntarily choose to take those incentives that we will significantly reduce energy usage, while simultaneously reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

    Additionally, assuming that enough people decide that conspicuous consumption is no longer fashionable, you may also see social incentives to conserve. Already some folks have ceased to be impressed by an SUV that never leaves the pavement and normally only carries one person, and are more impressed by a new Tesla. Sorry if that bothers you, but nobody is stopping anyone from buying or driving a Hummer.

    They’re just looking down their noses at them for it.

  72. 86

    "Hannah" spews:

    @84 – Oh I’m sorry that was on the post deleted when I tried to link the Seattle PI article, deleted as spam….my bad! Then go read post 46.

  73. 87

    "Hannah" spews:

    @84 – I will admit when I make a mistake. I forgot it deleted my entire post because it thought it was spam with the link.

  74. 88

    My Left Foot spews:


    And Piper has lots of experience looking down his nose.

    He ain’t gonna like the reverse.

  75. 90



    No, I’m not missing that point – conservation isn’t the issue. The issue is effectively conceding that our lives are subject to the OK of foreign powers.

    They most certainly are not!

    While the price of energy may dictate what kind of car I will purchase (it does to a certain degree, but to set the record straight, I LOVE Subaru’s), I find it offensive that all BHO could talk about were limits – how we have to live less enjoyable, free, comfortable, lives.

    He made no mention of overcoming these challenges. Instead, like Jimmy Carter, he expressed pessimism over the future and predicted that our lot in life will not only be less than it is now, but that it also will not be of our own chosing – the whole thing about other countries and their OK makes me hotter than Georgia asphalt.

    Of course it won’t affect him in the slightest – his is a world of privilege and affluence. But the average Joe and Jane Citizen struggling to make ends meet will suffer because of that philosophy.

    To some, keeping the house at 72 – not 85 as you facetiously suggest – is living comfortably and in good health. And eating all you want isn’t gluttony, it’s a matter of not going to a cold bed hungry.

    This isn’t about conspicuous consumption. Were that the case, then I think BHO should direct his comments to Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s massive new mansion and to the profligate lifestyles of a lot of his liberal celebrity sycophants.

    I’d like to see Obrah eating less and shivering in her digs, wouldn’t you?

    Now there’s a thought – why not dictate a maximum amount of living space for each American? The ultimate in conservation! How about a family of four living in 650 square feet? Eating a diet dictated to them by the government. No cars – they’ll be taxed into oblivion.

    Oh…wait…sounds like Romania under Nicolae Ceauşescu…Sucks to be that, eh what?

    My bottom line is that I believe the primary job of the President of the United States is to maximize the freedoms and liberties of the American people, not pass along to them lifestyle instructions from whatever junta happens to be running Paraquay at the moment.

    The last time a President tried this crap, his head was handed him when he ran for re-election, and his dire predictions turned out to be as much hogwash as he himself was made of.

    What were those Carter re-election numbers again?

    The Piper

  76. 91



    I just read the AP article about the paper money. The gist of it is that several organizations representing the blind asked the treasury to make changes to US currency so that blind people can tell the bills apart by touch.

    Lots of other countries have done this, and there are several methods, but the US Treasury Dept said it was too hard.

    It seems that the court disagrees.

    The real problem here seems to be a bureaucracy that refuses to deal with any problem until a court orders it to. Perhaps that’s simply due to the fact that no matter what changes are made, someone will complain.

    With a court order, nobody has to take responsibility for making a change. Of course this means that whatever changes are made will be decided upon by a judge, rather than someone that actually understands the whole issue.

    I think that’s also how we got instructions in braille on drive-up ATMs. (Although considering some of the folks driving, they might actually be needed.)

  77. 92

    "Hannah" spews:

    Joh Barelli,

    I am just astounded we have had paper money all these years and until now, no changes have been made. Sad!

    Braille on drive up ATM’s but not on physical paper money? Yeah now that’s useful! ;-) But as you say, some folks driving probably need it…snicker

  78. 94



    First, nobody is seriously suggesting that we let other countries decide our laws for us, only that we take those other countries into consideration when we make our own laws.

    It’s also known as being a good neighbor.

    Oh, and yes, some folks also consider 85 to be a comfortable temperature.

    You want to keep your home at 72? OK, but expect that it will cost you some money, either in higher heating bills, in additional insulation costs, or both. Nobody is seriously suggesting that we have thermostat police knocking down your door.

    There are likely to be additional incentives to conserve, with economic penalties for those that don’t. The most obvious being a shift in the current energy taxes, where those that use less get a credit, and those that use more pay more.

    After all, if we conserve, it also saves tax money that otherwise would be used for finding additional energy resources. Since the additional resources are primarily needed to support our growing demand, shouldn’t those folks adding to the demand pay more?

    Your argument also seems to imply that the opinion of foriegn countries should be entirely ignored. Of course, many on the right seem to think that those same countries should allow themselves to be influenced by us.

    No, we should not allow ourselves to be dictated to by anyone, any more than we should dictate to other countries. But we should listen to the opinion of others, just as we would ask them to listen to our opinions when making policies and laws.

    “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” works for countries just as well as for individuals. The whole argument here is among Americans, deciding what our policies and laws should be.

    I, for one, am in favor of being a good neighbor to the other countries in the world, and in doing what I see as our part in keeping the entire planet a decent place for all of us to live. I hope that they will reciprocate, and am in favor of our country using whatever influence (including economic) it has to encourage that reciprocation.

    Exactly what is your problem with that position?

  79. 95



    No, that was mostly Oregonians, and while I’m an Obama supporter, there are other candidates locally that need help, and that seems a more effective use of my rather limited time and resources. I’ll be spending most of my available time helping with Captain Seaquist’s campaign over here in the 26th district.

    Looks like they had a good time, though.

  80. 96

    ArtFart spews:

    Jimmy Carter got “his head handed him”, as Piper puts it, because the economy got out of whack and credit became hard to obtain for a lot of Americans (which we now see isn’t necessarily a problem that occurs only during Democrat administrations) and, more importantly, because of the Iran hostage crisis. This may have been triggered by his humanitarian decision to allow the deposed and dying Shah, who had been one of our closest allies, into the country for medical treatment. It remains curious that the hostages were released almost to the minute that Ronald Reagan was inaugurated.

  81. 97



    I’m all for being a good neighbor (good fences make good neighbors), but I’m also all for making sure that I meet the needs of those in my house before I go about meeting the neighbor’s needs…especially when I see the neighbor unwilling to fully meet those needs himself.

    The world isn’t, nor should it be, a level playing field. While the President of the United States can express concern for other countries, his primary legal obligation is to the people of the United States.

    “Fairness” has nothing to do with anything. If that were the determinent, then all games in all sports would end in a tie. Come to think of it, the Democratic Party’s Presidential nominating process seems designed to make everyone a winner and no one a loser, which means no one really wins, but everyone ends up losing.

    Honest and above board dealing I endorse, but if I have an advantage and fail to pursue it, then I’m short-changing my principles.

    Hoping that other countries will have your interests in mind is a hope upon which you will starve – they have their interests, we have ours. If we both wish to negotiate – with pre-conditions, BTW – that’s one thing, but it’s not a non-partisan thing; you’re either on our side or your on their side – only the Swiss get to be neutral.

    Mexico demands we take its interests into consideration when reforming our immigration laws, yet it acts indignant when anyone suggests that it do the same.

    I am completely unimpressed by international snarking against the U.S. for its trade or environmental policies when I see same coming from some of the slimiest – not to mention the dirtiest dealers and filthiest polluters – scum bags in the history of humanity.

    Again…if you are the President of the United States, your job is to enhance the interests of the United States – that’s what you are paid and legally bound to do. Let the leaders of those other countries take care of themselves.

    It’s the lawyer in me, I suppose – I want my President to be a zealous advocate for our national interests. I don’t want him telling me how I have to kowtow to the other guy or give up that for which I have worked in order to make some tinpot dictator happy or prop up a mangled third-world economy.

    Freedom and liberty first.

    The Piper

  82. 98


    Ok, Piper, but how is it in our national interest to ignore this problem?

    And, even though we are the most powerful nation on the planet, we are not stronger than the rest of the planet combined, so it seems to be in our national interest to cooperate, and encourage cooperation.

    “Us first, and the rest of you can just go hang” does little to encourage cooperation.

    Somehow, the answer of “Yes, we consume a quarter of the world’s energy resources. And we have big guns and bombs that say we can. What are you going to do about it?” seems to be an argument tailor made to bring us trouble.

    In a neighborhood, occasionally the biggest guy on the block decides he can do whatever he wants, regardless of what his neighbors think. Sometimes he even gets away with it for a while.

    Then the neighbors get together and realize that while the obnoxious neighbor is bigger than any one of them, he isn’t bigger than all of them together.

    Our “neighbors” are the other nations of the world, and we have the additional problem that we owe most of them money.

    So, you seem to suggest that we ignore the desires of the rest of the world, while continuing to ask them to loan us the money we need to keep our economy afloat.

    Additionally, we’re sending much of the money we’re borrowing to other countries that are not exactly what I would call friendly.

    So, you’re proposing that we consider our national interest first and foremost. Fine, I’m not disagreeing with you.

    I’m saying that it is in our national interest to avoid angering nations that could plunge our economy into even worse chaos than we currently “enjoy”, and that we reduce our dependency on other nations that seem to hate us.

    But if you can show me how borrowing huge sums from China and sending that money to the Middle East is somehow in our national interest, I’d be interested in seeing it.

    Or, maybe you can see how encouraging folks to conserve and working with the other nations of the world is in our national interest.

  83. 99

    blue John spews:

    Hi Piper,
    Then taking elements of your argument, would you be in favor of reworking trade agreements so they were fair trade, not just free trade?

  84. 100

    blue John spews:

    @98. Damn, I wished I’d written that. Nicely said.

    Hey Piper, at what time in America did we most live the values of “Freedom and liberty first.” I want a baseline for the society that you would most like to see us go back to.

  85. 101

    blue John spews:

    I’m all for being a good neighbor (good fences make good neighbors), but I’m also all for making sure that I meet the needs of those in my house before I go about meeting the neighbor’s needs…especially when I see the neighbor unwilling to fully meet those needs himself

    I’m always bothered by this kind of statement. What percentage of the population are we talking about? Most everyone I know is working, paying bills. I’ve know a few slackers in my 40+ years. A couple of drug users who lost it. A single mom who worked the welfare system and lived in poverty so she could raise her children until her kids were old enough to go to school and then she got a job. A kid in a car accident who was incapacitated for life. Maybe 1% of the people I know.
    When I hear conservatives complaining about slackers, I would like specifics. Who is this neighbor who is not unwilling to fully meet those needs himself? For 1%, should the whole system be scrapped? For 1%, we shouldn’t build it better?

  86. 104

    Puddybud spews:

    Looks like 20% of Kentucky Whitey don’t like Obama. Notice Clinton claims sexism but taint nuthin sayin about racism voting fer her darn it. Yep, looks dem racists still in de Donkey party.