Open thread

Presenting Recession: the Movie….

Comments

  1. 1

    GBS spews:

    Military warns Bush over mounting Iraq strain
    President told of pressures facing troops and families as he plans for future

    WASHINGTON -.” Behind the Pentagon’s closed doors, U.S. military leaders told President Bush Wednesday they are worried about the Iraq war’s mounting strain on troops and their families.

    The chiefs’ concern is that U.S. forces are being worn thin, compromising the Pentagon’s ability to handle crises elsewhere in the world.”
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23822394/

    What the hell. Their words just fell on deaf ears because we all know that Bush does NOT listen to the military leaders. Especially, those that have resigned in protest to denounce his leadership of the Iraq War and the military in general.

  2. 2

    Blue John spews:

    I caught a speech by Obama on CNN on the financial industry that seems to have vanished without a trace. It seemed pretty good, yet nobody seems to be chatting about it. Not even the Air America crowd.

    “Under Republican and Democratic Administrations, we failed to guard against practices that all too often rewarded financial manipulation instead of productivity and sound business practices,” Senator Obama said. “We let the special interests put their thumbs on the economic scales. The result has been a distorted market that creates bubbles instead of steady, sustainable growth; a market that favors Wall Street over Main Street, but ends up hurting both.”

    http://news.aol.com/story/_a/o bama-offers-plan-for-economic- woes/n20080327112409990021

  3. 4

    spews:

    GBS

    President Bush has been told this so many times that it seems certain that it isn’t going to sink in this time either. Still, he is the Commander in Chief, and the military leaders have a responsibility to keep trying, even if it means putting their careers in jeopardy.

    It seems altogether too likely that we’re going to continue losing senior military leaders that are willing to give advice without testing the prevailing winds first.

    On another topic

    Is anyone else concerned that Senator Clinton apparently thinks that is just ducky if pledged Obama delegates change their votes?

    While I’m of the view that pledged delegates should keep their word to the folks that elected them, apparently Senator Clinton disagrees.

    In an interview Wednesday with Mark Halperin of Time magazine, she said:

    “Every delegate with very few exceptions is free to make up his or her mind however they choose”

    I’m wondering if she feels the same way about her delegates?

  4. 5

    spews:

    aw just come to bellevue where it’s all good with suvz, skyscraperz, help wanted signz, and kemper freeman buying jugz o starbuckz for the construction workerz every morning

  5. 6

    proud leftist spews:

    4
    Hillary has shed all of her credibility. I have been surprised by how short-sighted and off-the-cuff her campaign has been. It is as if she has no plan beyond the day. Each morning she seems to just try to figure out what tactics might benefit her that day, regardless of the consequences. I have begun to detest her. Her campaign does not reflect someone who draws from experience, but rather someone who has no vision other than winning.

  6. 7

    queball spews:

    I’m taking an informal poll here. This is my question:

    Do you think anyone should not have the right to universal public health care in the United States?

    Which group(s) should not?

    Thanks for contributing.

    - queball

  7. 9

    ArtFart spews:

    1 Look for another round of senior officers resigning their commissions, but like Fallon, they’ll be offered to get their full pensions if they relinquish their commands but remain “officially” in the military until the end of the year. That way they’ll still be subject to orders from the Imbecile in Chief to keep their yaps shut.

    The insane commanding the incompetent, leading the unfortunate.

  8. 10

    proud leftist spews:

    Art @ 9: “The insane commanding the incompetent, leading the unfortunate.”

    Excellent turn of a phrase. Kudos.

  9. 11

    Manic Recession spews:

    @4: You note with subliminable feigned surprise that the Clintons play a down-low game? Where have you been, Mr.B.? Why haven’t you asked Our Rabbit to defend his defense of the Battling Babe of Bosnia who is apparently willing to nuke Denver in a credential-fight smackdown and meltdown?

    Bob Kerrey, who said his stimulus package is Debra Winger (ack!) said that Bill Clinton was/is an uncommonly good liar. Shrill mis-spokesperson Hillary is an uncommonly bad liar. She doesn’t really want to pry pledged delegates away from their pledges. She’s white fibbing to play with your previous conditions of liberal certitude about Democrat rectitude. Like us normal people, none of you will ever seriously be able to say that you believe what any Democrat says.

    Corporal Queball @7: Some of my best friends are illegal aliens, but no illegal alien has an unalienable and universal right to US health care. Aside from that level of care that public hospital emergency rooms are required to provide. And with the important proviso that the required provision of health care to illegal aliens (estimates vary from 12,000,000 – 30,000,000) have so burdened big hunks of the US health care system that the system itself is in crisis or “crisis.”

  10. 12

    ByeByeGOP spews:

    Bush has a plan to deal with the recession. He’s hiring Karl Rove to convince the most illiterate republicans that they actually aren’t in a recession. Rove believes if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes truth.

  11. 14

    queball spews:

    7 Artfart

    “Nope. Oterwise, how the hell can you call it “universal”.”

    Good point. I will rephrase this:

    Do you think anyone should not have the right to government provided health care in the United States?

    Which group(s) should not?

  12. 15

    ArtFart spews:

    11 Huh….I wonder how the estimated cost of attemting to round up all the undocumented aliens (or at least pretending to do so) stacks up against the cost of providing them with health care.

    A friend of mine who’s a little behind the curve about politics forwards me a lot of “electronic chain letters”, most of which are concerned with urban myths under the guise of Great Threats To The Republic And All The Ships At Sea. The last one was about how the Senate supposedly just authorized paying Social Security benefits to illegals and how I was supposed to call the White House right away and ask Smirky to veto it and then put my name on the message and forward it to at least 375 of my closest friends.

    A little research showed that this sorta happened, all right–in 2006. Turns out undocs have always been entitled to SS benefits, and the Senate at that time rejected and amendment to a bill proposed by Senator Ensign putting it to a stop. Curiously enough, one of those against the prohibition was none other than Senator McCain, who argued that it wouldn’t be fair because anyone in this country who gets a paycheck, illegal alien or not, pays FICA taxes. Oh, yeah….except really rich people.

  13. 16

    I-Burn spews:

    @14 Let me ask you something. Do you understand what a right in the context of our constitution really is? Do you understand that rights are NOT granted by (a) government? Rights are instead affirmed by such.

    Therefore your question makes no sense at all. How can the government grant you the right to free healthcare?

  14. 17

    IAFF Fireman spews:

    I notice that there are allot of AMERICAN AUTO PLANTS in that video. How many cars are at your DL that are from a Foreign Made manufacturer? Made in America you say? By Union or Non-Union? You liberals are all hypocrites. You are CHEAP LABOR LIBERALS! You are pro-labor when you want money and pac donations, but you are anti-labor when it comes to your everyday purchases. You refuse to hold your DL at a Union Staffed venue, and then cry about the mean nasty republicans making good paying Union jobs going away. HYPOCRITES!!!

    Oh, and by the way from the DL tab, my bunking gear is made in America and so is my helmet and SCBA. My PASS device is foreign. My Fire Engine is Made in America. My DODGE is UNION MADE IN AMERICA. The purchase of which helped fund the pensions labor workers. And Goldy still has yet to ever pay ANY UNION DUES EVER!!!!!!!!!!!

  15. 18

    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot spews:

    “(E)stimated cost of attemting to round up all the undocumented aliens …”

    Wrote nothing about rounding up anybody. Huckabee made belated noises about round-ups, but that’s only because everyone had stopped listening to him.

    My point is that there’s no good way go gauge any of our socio-economic data markers when we don’t know the scope (12,000,000? 30,000,000?) of the … problam. Assuming the marginal cost of illegal immigration exceeds the marginal benefit. My guess, re health care, is that the cost of “undocumented” alien care is exorbitant and crippling. Since I have no direct evidence for my guess, and you have no direct evidence to refute it, we’re left with duelling anecdotes.

    (Lib Cuban Bonnie Erbe didn’t hesitate a few weeks ago to assert that illegals have totally skewed our productivity data, thereby hiding the scope of the manic recession we’re in. Talk to her about round ups.)

  16. 19

    We Didn't Start the Fire spews:

    Dittos re Cheap Labor Liberals. But word on the street is that the only man-sized truck made totally in the United States is the Toyota Tundra.

  17. 20

    Tlazolteotl spews:

    “man-sized truck”??

    WTF is that? Is that referring to the kind of trucks the guys with micropenises seem to be so emotionally dependent on?

  18. 21

    Illegal Alien Sigourney Weaver spews:

    “Undoc” SS benefits: Granted that workers who contributed to an unsustainable entitlement should reap some trickle-down return of their contributions before the entitlement dies, but aren’t you troubled about the disconnect between the putative worker and the phantom or stolen SSN being used by the worker to claim the entitlement?

    If you’re not troubled by the disconnect, then steal a number, steal several numbers, and start cashing in. Tell the judge at the administrative court that you’re simply seeking the same slack granted to the Democrat base.

  19. 22

    Tlaz is a Treatable Disease spews:

    I’m talkin’ about the New Yorker ‘toon in which sonny tells daddy (who’s polishing his Hummer) that mommy says daddy is overcompensating for something, but won’t say what.

  20. 23

    Tlaz-Sized Truck spews:

    Word on the street is that the only Tlaz-sized truck (a truck big enough to drive a truck through) made totally in the US of A is the Toyota Tundra.

    Hot damn Dodge Ram.

  21. 24

    ArtFart spews:

    “My DODGE is UNION MADE IN AMERICA.”

    What year is it? Unless it’s less than six months old, or older than dirt, it was made by a German-owned company.

  22. 25

    Tlaz-Sized Truck spews:

    “(A)ctually aren’t in a recession …”

    We Actually Aren’t. Yet. A recession is defined by economists as two consecutive quarters of less-than-zero growth. We haven’t yet had even one consecutive quarter of negative ‘growth.’

    But see comments, above, about Erbe. Uncontrolled illegal immigration may have twisted our numbers so badly that nobody knows where we’re at.

    Again, I recommend a bad book. Read The Deporter about the refusal of many/most nations to accept extradition of alien violent felons who dropped into the US to rape, plunder, and pillage. Our courts and criminal system, enjoined from the prolonged holding of stateless felons, must release them to the streets of our cities.

  23. 26

    ArtFart spews:

    18 My guess is that your guess is wrong. It sure as hell sounds like yet another appeal to our good old all-American xenophobia by blaming our problems on “those other people”.

  24. 27

    ArtFart spews:

    25 “Uncontrolled illegal immigration may have twisted our numbers so badly that nobody knows where we’re at.”

    Not to mention that the Federal agencies that publish all those economic “indicators” have admitted that they’re pulling all their numbers out of a monkey’s ass.

  25. 28

    Tlazolteotl spews:

    Oh, my fan club is here again. He only starts playing with my nym after I’ve said something he can’t ignore. What’s wrong, did comment 20 hit a little too close to home?

  26. 29

    ByeByeGOP spews:

    The Bush McCain Recession will be front and center during the Presidential election. And Dems need to remind people over and over who sat in the White House while their home prices dropped like a rock – while their bill at the gas pump ran through the roof and while the US built up the largest deficit in history. The answer for the unaware is George Bush to all questions.

  27. 30

    PeeWee Goldstein spews:

    Subpoenas envy will get you nowhere, Tlaz. So back off, man.

    Monkeys: One of Hillary’s shills said something yesterday about monkeys flying out his butt. Maybe he’s her council of Economic Advisors.

    And why does the word ‘illegal’ immediately prompt knee-jerk jerks to simper about “good old all-American xenophobia”? We have a problem or a ‘problem’ that is complex particularly because we don’t know yet how to measure its complexity or its extent or the collateral damage to (e.g.) our health-care system that it causes.

    Why is it xenophobic to raise the issue?

    And what kind of phobic are you when you flip big-word insults into the middle of a more-or-less useful discussion?

  28. 31

    Jim, (a genuine musician) spews:

    We already HAVE universal health care. We simply wait until a medical condition is life-threatening, then go to the e-room.

    Then it costs perhaps 10 or 50 or a hundred grand, and the hospital or government or county or whatever simply absorbs the cost.

    Or maybe TMITM (the man in the moon) will pay, just like the national debt. Let’s ask Smirky McFlightsuit next time.

  29. 32

    Micropenis Phobia Fan Club spews:

    Disregard the previous post in which I implied that you’re a knee-jerk jerk. Should have used a bigger word because your ‘xenophobic’ gets a megascore in Scrabble.

    ‘Jerk,’ even if the ‘J’ lands on a good square, is a micropenis kind of word. Apologies to all.

  30. 33

    Micropenis Phobia Fan Club spews:

    “We simply wait until a medical condition is life-threatening …” Then the ER.

    Alluded to this already, Jim. Said it’s maybe breaking the system and breaking the bank because ERs are being beseiged, but not often by life-threatening conditions. They’re being overwhelmed by the expensively mundane.

    US law stipulates the public hospital ERs will treat all comers, no matter how nonemergent and trivial their complaints. But low-rent complaints do not mean low-cost treatments, and costs are shifted to paying customers.

  31. 34

    Blue John spews:

    I drive a Honda, cause it’s reliable. When American cars are as reliable, I will gladly buy them.
    I don’t think American cars are unreliable because of the workers, I think they are designed to be unreliable because of management decisions, to cut corners and do things on the cheap.

    @13. I believe a shared sacrifice by all, will help bring about prosperity. The rich should pay their fair share of taxes.

  32. 35

    Blue John spews:

    You want to get rid of illegals. Put anyone, from the CEO to the homeowner who hires them in prison and huge fines. They cannot get work, they will go home. Or they will break the law, and we send them home. Either way, they leave.

  33. 36

    I-Burn spews:

    @34 “I believe a shared sacrifice by all, will help bring about prosperity. The rich should pay their fair share of taxes. ”

    Okay, fair enough. What is “their fair share”? For that matter, who exactly are “the rich”?

  34. 37

    Puddybud spews:

    Correctnotright in the other thread wrote: “Gore would have won Florida with a total state recount – the supreme court took it away from him.”

    Correctnotright: Too bad you didn’t make it to DL. I WOULD have bought you and rhp6033 a beer, even though it’s against my principles to give others alcohol. Call it a peace (piece) offering.

    Now to the above comment. Al Gore did not file his recount all the state in time. If he had done in on November 12th he’d potentially won the state but that’s speculation now. As I stated many times and you continually forget many more times… the cutoff for the Florida electoral college participation ratification was Dec 12, cuz the Electoral College met on Dec 18 per my recollection. I haven’t looked this up cuz I was rereading old threads. Any way dude you are paying more attention to historical facts. You’ve come a long way baby, leaving Your Clueless Idiot in the dust!

  35. 38

    queball spews:

    @16 I-Burn says:

    “Let me ask you something. Do you understand what a right in the context of our constitution really is? Do you understand that rights are NOT granted by (a) government? Rights are instead affirmed by such.

    Therefore your question makes no sense at all. How can the government grant you the right to free healthcare?”

    Whether “granted” or “affirmed” by the government, “Do you think anyone should not have the right to government provided health care in the United States?”

    Whether “granted” or “affirmed”, whatever. All I am asking is if you, I-burn think anyone should not be allowed health care. My question is about your values, not “what is” or “what might be (due to some other’s choice)”. What is your stand?

    Just an informal poll.

  36. 39

    spews:

    Blue John:

    Actually, your Honda may well have been made in Alabama or Ohio. Last time I checked, those were still US States, although we may have to give them to China if our loans are ever called in.

    Of course, I own a couple of good, American made Mercurys. Except that one of them was made in Mexico, and the other one was made in Australia.

  37. 40

    GS spews:

    The Democrats plan for the economy should be well known by now, they’re own economy is their economy. Hillary and Bill staying at the Bellagio Villa, the most expensive rooms in that hotel, eating thousands of bucks in prime meals to boot.

    Earmarks, Pork spending that’s their game plan.

    Give the people $600 to $1200 in rebates while behind their thieving back doors they are planning to take another trillion or two from the same people from them when they turn their backs.

    That will sure torpedo the economy.

  38. 41

    Puddybud spews:

    Proud Leftist@6: The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (VRWC) was right after all about Heilary and her scorched earth tactics?

    Come on and admit the truth. It’s so easy to say it.

    Remember she claimed in an interview posted by Puddy she hasn’t worried about the VRWC for over 10 years. You know when she said the Lewinsky story was a VRWC to get her Bill!!!!!

  39. 42

    Micropenis Phobia Fan Club spews:

    “Put anyone, from the CEO to the homeowner who hires them in prison and huge fines.”

    Yes. I was setting up an HR Dept in ’87 when Simpson/Mazoli(?) came on line with its non-negotiable demand that every employer in the United States glean an I-9 from every employee. That bureaucratic paper-shuffle was the price of amnesty. Illegals already in the country got a one-time windfall, being moved ahead of every legal seeker of entry, and future illegals were enjoined from gaining gainful employment.

    WTF, indeed. Why’d we go thru the cherade? Why don’t we now get serious about enforcing the clear intent of I-9 by forcing bureaucracy to enforce its own law?

  40. 43

    I-Burn spews:

    @41 Hey Thanks Puddy. I’d forgotten to have my VRWC membership renewed. I’ll have to do that right away. Do you think I can keep my old VRWC card, or will I have to get a new one?

  41. 45

    Puddybud spews:

    Tlazolteotl says: “… the guys with micropenises …”

    Jennie Jennie Jennie, you’re hanging (sic) with the wrong crowd. PacMan and I can help you overcome this problem. And I don’t mean with us. We’re happily married. But we have some single black friends who could introduce you to something a little darker and a lot bigger.

  42. 46

    harry poon spews:

    re 36: You guys are always pointing out that the rich pay the lion’s share of taxes.

    Who are the rich, anyway? Your question, not mine.

  43. 47

    Micropenis Phobia Fan Club spews:

    Reliability and auto-erotica: American cars have recently gained reliablility-parity with rice rockets. NPR said so. So it must be true. (No erotica report to report. That was a Spitzer tease.)

  44. 48

    spews:

    Puddy

    You’re starting with the premise that Senator Clinton was ever really popular with this crowd.

    Was she unfairly attacked from the right? Yes, on several occasions. She even garnered some sympathy because of those attacks that she has used effectively in the current campaign.

    But the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. Just because she didn’t kill Vince Foster, and her real estate dealings were legal doesn’t mean that she isn’t running a “scorched earth” campaign, and doesn’t negate the fact that she is making it harder for any Democrat to win in November.

    John McCain didn’t sell out to the North Vietnamese either, no matter what the neo-cons have said about him. That doesn’t make him a Democrat.

  45. 49

    GBS spews:

    @ 45:

    That whole “black men are bigger thing” is just urban legend.

    The truth is black women are just tighter.

  46. 50

    Micropenis Phobia Fan Club spews:

    45: Sic! Sic! Sic! Back off, man! If she/it goes black, she/it’ll never go back! (To us micropenis white boys.)

  47. 52

    Micropenis Phobia Fan Club spews:

    “McCain didn’t sell out to the North Vietnamese either, no matter what the neo-cons have said about him …”

    Neo-cons like dear departed Will and that other swiftboat wanker from the HA fever swamp.

  48. 53

    GBS spews:

    @ 52:

    McCain has a proven track record of surrendering to America’s enemies during a time of war. This is no time to replace a weak Commander-in-Chief with a surrender monkey.

    John “White Flag” McCain. No thanks.

  49. 54

    GBS spews:

    McCain did sell out US military personell. A little “robust interigation” and the Surrender Monkey was telling “Charlie” everything. Hell, I bet he even wore a NVA pajama uniform.

  50. 55

    Micropenis Phobia Fan Club spews:

    Hairy Poon Tang: The rich are the persons who still pay taxes, even after Bush’s tax cuts for the rich. (And they’re different from you & me.)

    A better question is: Who are all those many low-income millions who were cut from the fed tax rolls by Bush’s tax cuts for the tax-paying rich? And why are all those low-income millions not only exempt from fed taxes, but are eligible, even with no qualifying dependent, for EITaxC trickle-down, even tho they pay no fed income tax? What’s with that?

  51. 56

    Tony Soprano spews:

    Fuck that, GBS. Really tired of that one. Wish nappy Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh would come back and in-terror-gate you for a while. You’d be singing like a pre-pube girl.

  52. 57

    Irgun Gunrunner spews:

    WWIII: Any day now. The Arafat’s on the fire while we ponder the tender psyches of suicide bombers.

  53. 58

    mark spews:

    29 All the financial turmoil has happened since the democrats
    took over in 2006 and the congress writes the
    checks, so as usual, you are retarded. Fuel prices are
    out of control because of environmental laws attached
    to the refining of crude oil. This has resulted in fuel
    being partially deleted of the energy available per gallon
    reduced by 10 to 12 percent. Now we have to burn more
    to get the same “work” and negating any environmental
    benefit. There is plenty of crude but not enough refining
    capability. This is not the fault of the president.

  54. 61

    Darcy Christ Superstar spews:

    Ditto that, Mark. That’s why we gotta send in the Amazing Darcy to clean up Pelosi’s mess.

  55. 62

    Darcy Christ Superstar spews:

    Gotta go, Mr.B, since dear sweet Rabbit won’t come out to play.

    Will try to read your stuff later, but suspect that you’ve conflated paleocons with neocons. The neocon Weekly Standard, which recently announced that Bush is a failure, has been high on McCain for about eight years.

  56. 63

    PU spews:

    GBS WAS A CUNT CIVILIAN UNDER NAVAL TRAINING BUT UNLIKE McCAIN HE WAS BOOTED FROM THE NAVY BEFORE THE NVA COULD GET HIM.HE LIKES TO TELL YOU HE WAS A EN-1 A NAVY SEAL. HE WOULD SING THE LOUDEST.HE COULD NOT LICK THE SWEAT OFF JOHN McCAINS BALLS.PS HE ALSO BUYS CHEAP AUTOS FROM OVERSEAS.

  57. 64

    Puddybud spews:

    John Barelli@48: Yes there were many Heilary lovers in this crowd. Did you forget the reaction to Pelletizer’s impassioned letter to HAs? Later upon seeing the VRWC in action many moved to the Obama camp.

  58. 65

    Puddybud spews:

    John Barelli said: “John McCain didn’t sell out to the North Vietnamese either, no matter what the neo-cons have said about him. That doesn’t make him a Democrat.”

    Tell that to the HAer’s who use that as a whipping cane on McCain every day John.

  59. 67

    Puddybud spews:

    I-Burn: I chose the VRWC 2008 card with Monica in her beret hat. On the bottom is “My ex-boyfriend’s wife is running for POTUS!”

  60. 68

    ArtFart spews:

    56 Good point. I suspect any of us would be singing like canaries after we’d had our arms dislocated at the shoulders a dozen or so times.

  61. 69

    Puddybud spews:

    PU: Lay off of GBS. Your attacks are worthless drivel. He can be found on the Official Navy Seal Web Site. While you were a lifer, it give you no right to crack on him like that. As PacMan and I understand it, I would have cracked the head of that officer too if in that situation.

    While I disagree with many of GBS’ political positions, the man is OOOOOTaaay in my book.

  62. 72

    PU spews:

    puddybud hows this gbs attacks are worthless.because he was booted from the navy does not give him the right to crack on mCcain.he can have his positions on political events.but he has no businees talking trash.he wast there and ill stand by what i said about him 2 days and he would of sung like a bird.one more thing you heard his one side of the story.i have no hatred of gbs i saw many gbs in 30 years of navy life.well im off to mexico to help reduce the inventory of the beer supply.

  63. 73

    Puddybud spews:

    PU: Then you should attack him on his McCain attacks. I agree many of the HAers here would sing like a canary if they met the kind of torture McCain endured. Idiots like ByeByeGOP who constantly claims McCain is hiding something should enjoy one month of McCain’s physical torture. But then again he didn’t even volunteer for the military.

    Sure we only heard his side of the story, but either GBS is a very sincere liar as he looked both of us in the eye, or he can make his eyes not dilate or shrink during a good lie. Meet us for lunch and you too can ask him.

  64. 74

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    I’m just curious how you KLOWNS explain these statistics:

    The annual fatalities of military members while
    actively serving in the armed forces from 1980 through 2006:
    1980 ……… 2,392 (Carter Year)
    1981 ……… 2,380 (Reagan Year)
    1984 …….. 1,999 (Reagan Year)
    1988 ………. 1,819 (Reagan Year)
    1989 ……… 1,636 (George HW Year)
    1990 ……… 1,508 (George HW Year)
    1991 ………. 1,787 (George HW Year)
    1992 ………. 1,293 (George HW Year)
    1993 ……… 1,213 (Clinton Year)
    1994 ………. 1,075 (Clinton Year)
    1995 ……… 2,465 (Clinton Year)
    1996 ………. 2,318 (Clinton Year)
    1997 ………… 817 (Clinton Year)
    1998 ……… 2,252 (Clinton Year)
    1999 ……… 1,984 (Clinton Year)
    2000 ……… 1,983 (Clinton Year)
    Clinton years (1993-2000): 14,000 deaths
    2001 ………… 890 (George W Year)
    2002 …….. 1,007 (George W Year)
    2003 …….. 1,410 (George W Year)
    2004 …….. 1,887 (George W Year)
    2005 …………. 919 (George W Year)
    2006………….. 920 (George W Year)
    2007……899 (George W Year)
    George W years (2001-2007): 7,932 deaths

    Seems like you have huffed & puffed about ALL the deaths.
    Here is a little perspective.
    So where was your outrage during the Clinton Years?
    Look at 1980…the holier-than-thou Carter year?
    Where is your outrage KLOWNS?

  65. 75

    Daddy Love spews:

    Boy, you can really tell the Reponsible Plan is going nowhere when the Washington Post runs a big article with a big picture of Darcy Burner. Good thing no one is paying attention to it.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....02963.html

    Hmmmm, when was the last time Dve Reichert did anything interesting or important enough to be published in the Washington Post? I looked it up: March 6, 2008 (surprise, and here I though Dave didn’t even know he was running for office this year). Dave’s name is mentioned in the 23rd paragraph as co-sponsor of a bill outlawing so-called ‘murderabilia.’ No picture. “Co-sponsor.” Yawn. The article itself is lurid, but Dave’s part is mundane. He’s gonna run on that?

    Darcy’s going to be in more and more national articles as this goes on. How long will Dave’s bill carry him?

  66. 76

    slingshot spews:

    @74
    How about footnotes to your statistics? Where did you find them; Bill O’Reilly’s website. Or is questioning your veracity beyond the bounds of fair play?

  67. 77

    Daddy Love spews:

    74 Cynical

    Explain nothing. First, tell us where you GOT those “statistics.” I’m a little curious as to how there were somehow more military deaths during years when we didn’t lose a single soldier to hostile fire in combat (Clinton) than when we have been engaged in a five-year hot war (Bush).

    So tell us, where did this come from?

  68. 78

    Daddy Love spews:

    Those somehow don’t match the numbers the military supplies on http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/pe.....TY/WWT.PDF

    Fiscal Year End Strength ‘Total Deaths’
    1980……….2,050,627……….2,391
    1981……….2,082,560……….2,421
    1982……….2,108,612……….2,311
    1983……….2,123,349……….2,202
    1984……….2,138,157……….2,313
    1985……….2,151,032……….2,016
    1986……….2,169,112……….2,241
    1987……….2,174,217……….1,991
    1988……….2,138,213……….1,845
    1989……….2,130,229……….1,679
    1990……….2,043,705……….1,526
    1991……….1,985,555……….1,787
    1992……….1,807,177……….1,332
    1993……….1,705,103……….1,245
    1994……….1,610,490……….1,109
    1995……….1,518,224……….1,055
    1996……….1,471,722……….1,008
    1997……….1,438,562………….864
    1998……….1,406,830………….815
    1999……….1,385,703………….761
    Total…………32,912……….19,488

  69. 79

    Daddy Love spews:

    I opsted some from the DoD that haven’t shown up yet. I will take back my earlier statement&emdash;turns out we lost 59 soldiers to hostile action from 1993-1999.

  70. 81

    Daddy Love spews:

    The group’s 36-page plan does not set a specific deadline for when all combat troops must be out of Iraq. “Begin it now, do it as safely as you can and get everyone out,” Burner said.

    The starkest difference between the group’s proposal, dubbed a “Responsible Plan to End the War in Iraq,” and those embraced by many senior Democrats and the party’s presidential candidates is that it rejects the idea of leaving U.S. troops on the ground to train Iraqi security forces or engage in anti-terrorism operations. The group instead calls for a dramatic increase in regional diplomacy and the deployment of international peacekeeping forces, if necessary.

  71. 82

    Daddy Love spews:

    Gosh, so you mean it’s not “surrender” if a REAL international force keeps what peace can be kept in Iraq? Who knew?

  72. 88

    Blue John spews:

    Well, I’m now convinced that Hillary is as bad as my republican friends have been telling me for years. They won’t let me live that down. They grudgingly admire Obama, even after the relentless Rev Wright bashing. Won’t vote for him, but they don’t despise him, like they and I despise Hillary.

  73. 89

    spews:

    Wait just a second, Puddy.

    Conservatives, including you, have complained that liberals won’t take on our own icons. It isn’t true, of course, and the article you linked to is one example of us doing just that.

    I was about to ask you to link to conservative outlets making fun of a conservative icon, but then I remembered a few right wing outfits taking on Ann Coulter.

    And on that topic, what has dear Annie been doing recently? I rather miss shredding her “arguments”. She’s been rather quiet of late.

    Of course, I do remember that she recently endorsed Senator Clinton. I’m sure there is some sort of connection between these things, and equally sure that I really don’t want to think about it too much.

    Clinton/Coulter 08?

  74. 91

    Puddybud spews:

    John Barelli:

    Yes, your side is attacking your “liberal icons” now. But your side circled the wagons for years around Heilary. Where was the outrage on Chucky Schumer when he took Mike Steele’s SSN and had a background check done on his credit score? Nary a peep. Where was the outrage with William “Frozen Money” Jefferson. Where is the outrage over Kwame Kilpatrick Detriot Mayor. Yet the FAUX OUTRAGE here by ByeByeGOP and Blatantly Obvious over a check on Obama’s passport. Then when it’s determine it was an Clinton supporter who managed the people who did the checking nary a peep John. Cry me a river brotha!

    We have been saying she is not trustworthy ever since she ran for NYS Senator. We called her a carpetbagger. Her husband pardoned some radical peeps from NY. I know you know this John.

    Regarding Coulter, she is your poster girl for all things isn’t she. But you all give Bill Mahar a pass when he first said Cheney should be assassinated, then Ann Coulter took the gloves off. Or how about the missing outrage over Randi “Four Shots on the Air” Rhodes. Nary a peep on both John…

  75. 94

    Puddybud spews:

    PTBAA@91: Is that the best you can do?

    “Senator McCain has been among the most consistent and outspoken defenders of the undeclared war in Iraq.”

    I thought that was a leftist position.

  76. 95

    Puddybud spews:

    PTBAA answer my drug question to you. If all drug laws are repealed, what would you do if your teenager decided to use drugs and became a drug addict?

    Why can’t you ANSWER the question?

  77. 96

    YLB spews:

    92 – LMAO!! Stupes, you’re just reaping what you sow here.

    You’re not going to escape it.

  78. 97

    YLB spews:

    Hey Sheeple:

    Stupes, those are at (un)SP. Why don’t you go join them? I’m sure they’ll be tolerant and respectful of your choice for Prez.

    Nothing but independent thinkers here who can’t stand your corrupt joke of a party that has all but ruined the future of this country.

  79. 98

    Puddybud spews:

    I am shocked no lefty has an opinion on this recently decided court case:

    http://urbangrounds.com/2008/0.....gonna-die/

    This human scum helped beat raped and killed two teenaged girls. Oh BTW he’s an illegal alien…

    “But Liberals have to be pretty conflicted by this verdict — on one hand, SCOTUS just reigned in the self-claimed powers of President Bush. On the other hand, it opens the doors to a much more immediate execution for Medellin.”

  80. 100

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    Pud @ 94: This is the question you asked me: “War on drugs… So I assume PTBAA you have no problems with your teenage child doing cocaine, hashish or other potent drugs?”

    I note you have rewritten it. That makes you a fucking liar, and note even a very good one.

    For my answer to your ORIGINAL question, see comment #170, that thread.

    Ignoramus.

  81. 101

    YLB spews:

    PU: Lay off of GBS. Your attacks are worthless drivel.

    What? What’s this? You mean you’ve given up on the tally before disobeying the 11th commandment?

    This is out of character, Stupes. I thought all the lefties here were supposed to denounce HL upon your orders before you’d express disapproval of your fellow right wingers.

    LMAO!!!

  82. 102

    Puddybud spews:

    PTBAA I rewrote the question because Lee said it wasn’t the correct question, it was irrelevant.

    Do you actually practice being an IDIOT, or does it come naturally.

    Maybe that’s why God has you announce everyday you are an ASS!

  83. 103

    Daddy Love spews:

    So what happened to the post of the stats from the DoD that I gathered and spent twenty minutes formatting that proved Cynical to be fucking incorrect? Who runs the post black hole? I know it went thrtough because I tried posting it again and the site said it knew about the first one. Who’s the freakin’ admin here?

  84. 104

    YLB spews:

    98 – Irrelevant. Such a conservative..

    Can’t stand to face the consequences of his own behavior.

    Enough for today. There’ll be more on Sunday.

  85. 105

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    @94: What would you do if your daughter got addicted to drugs right now?

    Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question.

    I’ll give you 30 seconds.

  86. 107

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    PTBAA I rewrote the question because Lee said it wasn’t the correct question, it was irrelevant.

    Then why did you ask it you clueless fool?

    Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question. Answer the question.

    I’ll give you 30 seconds.

  87. 109

    Puddybud spews:

    Clueless Idiot: I know GBS. PacMan and I broke bread with GBS. We’re about the same age. PU was out of line in some of his comments.

    I don’t know you nor do I plan too. I don’t look forward to breaking bread with you!

    SeattleJew said you and some others are ignored. I am following that thought on most of your pap from now on.

    See ya.

  88. 110

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    An ass is an honorable work animal. You predjudiced or something?

    You really are a fucking jerk.

  89. 112

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    It’s pretty simple Puddy. Answer the question. Why can’t you answer my question?

    I’m just arguing like you do to demonstrate the futile nature of the idiotic line of inquiry. But keep pounding your head against the wall.

    Enjoy the day. Later.

  90. 113

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    “PTBAA The reworded question is more relevant.”

    Well, no. It actually has no relevance. This has relevance: Will use and addiction rates go up if drugs are legalized.

    Discuss.

    Otherwise leave my teen-age daughter (I have one)out of it, you presumptuous jerk.

  91. 114

    Puddybud spews:

    Honorable work animal? So you are equating yourself to an ASS because you carry a burden well? What is your burden besides being an IDIOT?

    You are a diametrically opposed particle to a work animal.

    BTW I like fucking…who doesn’t? Jerk? You’re projecting yourself again…

  92. 115

    spews:

    Puddy:

    “But your side circled the wagons for years around Heilary.”

    No, we just circled the wagons when the neo-cons attacked. Neither of the Clintons were terribly popular with liberals, but we did see them as better than the alternatives available to us. Even now, if left with a choice between Senator Clinton or Senator McCain, I’ll hold my nose and vote for Clinton.

    Bill Maher managed to get himself fired from Comedy Central, for goodness sake. He’s drawn quite a bit of criticism from all sides, although he has made one very good point. With all the mistakes made leading to and after 9/11, he’s the only person that actually lost his job because of it. But he’s not an important liberal commentator or spokesperson. He’s a comedian. When he runs for office, I’ll take him more seriously.

    Representative Jefferson is still a pariah in the House, although he has yet to be convicted of anything. The Detroit mayor’s case is being well covered in the “liberal” media, and if he’s found guilty, should go to jail.

    The information about the Clinton supporter in charge of the passport flailex was reported by that bastion of conservative reporting, MSNBC, the only news outfit that could be considered the liberal equivalent of Faux News, except that almost none of us would use them as our only news source. (I enjoy Keith Olbermann, but he’s neither fair nor balanced, and doesn’t even claim to be.)

    If you’re waiting for us to get as worked up about liberal figures getting into trouble as we do about conservatives, well, don’t hold your breath. It’s a liberal blog. You want outrage about liberals, go read Sharanski’s drivel.

  93. 120

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    “Honorable work animal? So you are equating yourself to an ASS because you carry a burden well?”

    I can’t complain. Why can’t you answer a simple question? Cat got your tongue?

  94. 121

    Puddybud spews:

    PTBAA You stated in another thread: Abolish drug laws.

    I had no idea if you had a teenage or not. Now we know. So I’ll ask again, what will you do?

    You run from the question by asking another question? You want drug laws abolished not me. You set the framework, so I asked a question based on your framework.

    Deal with it.

  95. 123

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    Com’on, Puddy. We’re all waiting breathlessly for your reply. You trying to Google an adequate answer?

    It’s really not that hard.

  96. 124

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    Deal with it.

    Feh. Answer my question. You argue in bad faith. That makes you a dishonest player.

    There is little that is lower.

    Still waiting for your answer to my question.

  97. 125

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    You set the framework, so I asked a question based on your framework.

    No. You did not. You asked a rhetorical yes-no question that is pure bullshit. For asking it that way, you deserve nothing but contempt.

    Answer my questions.

  98. 126

    Daddy Love spews:

    Re: the Pew Research study that purported to show large numbers of Democrats who would vote for McCain if their favorite candidate is not nominated, try this:
    http://people-press.org/report.....eportID=43

    Following Bush’s victory in the 2000 primaries and McCain’s exit from the race, the Pew survey referenced above found that 51% of those who backed McCain during the primary campaign would vote for Gore in the general election (Guess what? They didn’t.). Only 44% of his supporters said that they would be casting their votes for Bush. Furthermore, a significant share of Bradley supporters also said that they would be supporting Bush in the general election, including 39% of his independent backers. (Guess what? They didn’t.)

    While I wouldn’t say that NO ONE would do this, experience shows us that far larger numbers say they will do something of this sort than ever actually do.

  99. 127

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    Hey, puddy. If rape was legalized, and your daughter was raped, what would you do?

    Unfair question? Certainly.

    Now we know the bad faith you bring to any disagreement.

  100. 129

    spews:

    Oh, Puddy?

    One additional note in regards to the left defending Senator (and/or First Lady) Clinton.

    Many of those attacks against her were so outrageous as to be absurd. Remember claims that she had Vince Foster killed? How about the claims that the Clintons were running drugs through secret airfields?

    The attacks about the Whitewater real estate deals were investigated thoroughly, over years. Eventually all that was found was that President Clinton had a weakness for pudgy 25 year old interns.

    She has a cutthrought, no-holds-barred style of campaigning that we find offensive, especially when used within our own party. The idea is that the primary battle should not devistate our party to the point where the winner cannot compete in the general election, and Ms. Clinton seems to forget that.

    But if the “she killed Vince Foster” and “secret airfields for drugs” arguments come up again, you can expect that most of us will rise to her defense.

  101. 130

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    You run from the question by asking another question?

    The question was contemptible. You never answered a question with a question?

    You really are absurd.

  102. 131

    Puddybud spews:

    John John John Barelli:

    No, we just circled the wagons when the neo-cons attacked. Neither of the Clintons were terribly popular with liberals, but we did see them as better than the alternatives available to us. Even now, if left with a choice between Senator Clinton or Senator McCain, I’ll hold my nose and vote for Clinton.

    - John what a crock. Neo-cons told the truth about Heilary and now even the rabid dog posters on Kurse are finally admitting Heilary is what we’ve been say all these years. Pelletizer uses Bill Clinton as his cause du jour. Correctnotright uses the DOW valuees under Bill. Rhp6033 uses Bill’s economy as his personal whipping stick. Bill was noted as the “first black president” by Toni Morrison.

    Bill Maher managed to get himself fired from Comedy Central, for goodness sake. He’s drawn quite a bit of criticism from all sides, although he has made one very good point. With all the mistakes made leading to and after 9/11, he’s the only person that actually lost his job because of it. But he’s not an important liberal commentator or spokesperson. He’s a comedian. When he runs for office, I’ll take him more seriously.

    - Maher said that comment on HBO. Still there. I can’t seem to find the lefty criticism but I can find all the righty sites criticizing him.

    Representative Jefferson is still a pariah in the House, although he has yet to be convicted of anything. The Detroit mayor’s case is being well covered in the “liberal” media, and if he’s found guilty, should go to jail.

    - All these comments are after the fact. Where are they on HA when they happened? More FAIX OUTRAGE.

    The information about the Clinton supporter in charge of the passport flailex was reported by that bastion of conservative reporting, MSNBC, the only news outfit that could be considered the liberal equivalent of Faux News, except that almost none of us would use them as our only news source. (I enjoy Keith Olbermann, but he’s neither fair nor balanced, and doesn’t even claim to be.)

    - I recently posted a google of MSNBC site:Horsesass.org Goldy has used MSNBC and Keith Olbermann. And yes Keith is very unbalanced in mind and spoken word.

    If you’re waiting for us to get as worked up about liberal figures getting into trouble as we do about conservatives, well, don’t hold your breath. It’s a liberal blog. You want outrage about liberals, go read Sharanski’s drivel.

    - I know this is a liberal blog. Pelletizer tells all the newbies it is. We on the right are here to provide balance to the argument, just as Lee and others venture to Stefan’s blog to provide balance there.

  103. 132

    Puddybud spews:

    John Barelli – You mean Mena Arkansas. Wow that was some great reading a few years back. Have many sites bookmarked.

  104. 133

    Puddybud spews:

    PTBAA: My question was contempible? No it was a logical extension to what “freedom” provides.

    If getting drugs is a freebie, people will freely try them. So why are you so afraid to answer.

    Here is my answer when I asked my teenaged sons. Both my teenage sons told me they have seen the outcome of drug use on their friends so even if they were free they would say no just like Nancy Reagan taught. Therefor, I have no worries. So answer the question PTBAA.

  105. 134

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    Pud,

    Your asking a question of your sons about how they feel about drugs is not the question you have asked me. So again, you continue to discuss this dishonestly.

    If one of your sons got involved with drugs under today’s laws, what would you do? It is my profound wish that you would simply not throw him under the bus with the cavelier dismissal that he “made the wrong choice, so fuck him”, would you?

    If it was my son and\or daughter, I wouldn’t. Whether drugs are illegal or not. Thus your question is essentially dishonest, and not germaine.

    You still haven’t answered my question. Your turn. Show some actual chops and step up to discuss an issue seriously.

  106. 136

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    Still waiting for an answer, Putty. What’s taking you so long? Your internet tubes clogged up today?

    Try prune juice.

  107. 137

    Puddybud spews:

    PTBAA I didn’t postulate get abolish drug laws you did. You got wrapped around another pole after my question.

  108. 139

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    Hey, Pud. Alchohol is a drug. It kills thousands every year. It’s legal….what should our public policy be on this issue? Is it easier for a kid to get a beer today than it was in 1927? Are rates of alchoholism higher today that they were in 1927? Should we just shoot alchoholics?

    Discuss.

    tick, tick, tick….man..two questions for Pud today. Can he take the pressure?

  109. 140

    Puddybud spews:

    Didn’t Piper recently post the black helicopters to you lefties? Personally I like the whoooop whoooop noise better than a F-16 buzzing me.

  110. 141

    Puddybud spews:

    Personally I think alcohol should be better regulated. I feel all cars should have a breathalyser installed so you have to prove not being drunk.

    I feel bartenders should be able to stop a drunk from too many drinks and demand their keys.

    I don’t agree with suing bartenders because they don’t have the power to stop someone from driving away drunk. Some liberal will cry who made them boss. It’s always the way you all think.

  111. 142

    Puddybud spews:

    Clueless Idiot – Never been to a DL? Why thems your peeps. Or maybe not…

    I plan to go back to the den again. I may take the wife… since it looks like decent food is served.

  112. 143

    Puddybud spews:

    To answer PTBAA question above, Will use and addiction rates go up if drugs are legalized?

    Do you remember what happened in Alaska in 1975?

  113. 144

    Puddybud spews:

    PTBAA, as I remember 10 or more states had marijuana use laws on the books by 1979. What happened to use rates?

  114. 145

    Puddybud spews:

    BTW PTBAA the Dutch are now rethinking some their gedoogbeleid policy on marijuana. Even Wikipedia has mentioned it.

  115. 147

    Nancy Kerrigan spews:

    Did Sgt. Hillary lie about prying pledged delegates away from their pledges? Or did she extend to little people the courtesy of letting them know that the Clinton-Flynt knee-capping’s about to begin?

    How did Clinton & clinton & Larry Flynt spin a Lewinsky loser into a big win? By knee-capping Congress with the dirt gleaned from 900+ illegally held FBI files and with dirt dug up by Flynt’s goons. Look for a replay when delegates start the pilgrimage to Denver.

  116. 148

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    What happened to use rates?

    There you go again. Answering a question with a question. I thought you never did that.

  117. 150

    Puddybud spews:

    This is why it’s hard to debate a person like PTBAA.

    For all to see again Will use and addiction rates go up if drugs are legalized?

    Operative words … will use rates go up…

    So I asked above: PTBAA, as I remember 10 or more states had marijuana use laws on the books by 1979. What happened to use rates?

    Again I aks: Do you actually practice being an IDIOT, or does it come naturally.

  118. 152

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    slingshot & Love Daddy

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf

    Here is the source of the Military Fatalities.
    Congressional Research Service report to Congress in 2007.
    Lots of interesting info…especially if you are a history buff.

    Unfortunately for you KLOWNS it doesn’t have any cartoons!
    Just statistics.
    28 pages. Good luck.

  119. 153

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    slingshot & Love Daddy–
    I have tried 2 times to post the source of Military Fatality info.
    It’s being blocked.

  120. 154

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    It’s from the 2007 Congressional Research Service report to Congress. Very interesting stuff if you are a history buff.
    28 pages.
    Sorry slingshot…no cartoons!

  121. 156

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    I could only post the link without the www in front of it.
    Goldy–Are you having problems posting links??

  122. 159

    Hannah spews:

    @153 – AH HA! ;-) Try this one…except this thread keeps bouncing me out when I try to link it

    Go to fas.org and in the search box type “military deaths” and the 1st PDF…